Celtic - Revision history

Sage: /* External links */

2012-11-24T01:14:14Z

External links

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:14, 24 November 2012
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	==External links==		==External links==
	*{{WP\|Celtic languages}}		*{{WP\|Celtic languages}}
		+	*''[http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/11/14/how-much-was-tolkien-influenced-by-irish-mythology/ How much was Tolkien influenced by Irish mythology?]'' by [[Michael Martinez]]
	[[Category:languages (real-world)]]		[[Category:languages (real-world)]]

Sage: sources are adequate

2012-10-27T19:49:43Z

sources are adequate

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:49, 27 October 2012
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	{{stub}}		{{stub}}
−	~~{{sources}}~~
	'''Celtic''' refers either to the [[Wikipedia:Celtic languages\|Celtic languages]], including [[Wikipedia:Breton language\|Breton]], [[Wikipedia:Cornish language\|Cornish]], [[Wikipedia:Goidelic languages\|Gaelic]], and [[Welsh]], or to the [[Wikipedia:Celts\|Celts]], an historic group of people.<ref>{{CG\|RG}}, pp. 148-52</ref>		'''Celtic''' refers either to the [[Wikipedia:Celtic languages\|Celtic languages]], including [[Wikipedia:Breton language\|Breton]], [[Wikipedia:Cornish language\|Cornish]], [[Wikipedia:Goidelic languages\|Gaelic]], and [[Welsh]], or to the [[Wikipedia:Celts\|Celts]], an historic group of people.<ref>{{CG\|RG}}, pp. 148-52</ref>

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	Other names having (or have been suggested as having) a Celtic influence include:		Other names having (or have been suggested as having) a Celtic influence include:
−	*''[[The Yale#Etymology\|Yale]]''	+
	*''[[Bree#Etymology\|Bree]]''		*''[[Bree#Etymology\|Bree]]''
	*''[[Carn Dûm#Etymology\|Carn Dûm]]''		*''[[Carn Dûm#Etymology\|Carn Dûm]]''
	*''[[Chetwood#Etymology\|Chetwood]] and [[Archet#Etymology\|Archet]]''		*''[[Chetwood#Etymology\|Chetwood]] and [[Archet#Etymology\|Archet]]''
	*''[[Carrock#Etymology\|Carrock]]''		*''[[Carrock#Etymology\|Carrock]]''
		+	*''[[The Yale#Etymology\|Yale]]''

−	~~==Externals links==~~
−	*{{WP\|Celtic languages}}
	{{references}}		{{references}}
		+	==External links==
		+	*{{WP\|Celtic languages}}
	[[Category:languages (real-world)]]		[[Category:languages (real-world)]]

Sage: /* Names */

2012-10-27T19:48:14Z

Names

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:48, 27 October 2012
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	===Names===		===Names===

−	While several names in [[J.R.R. Tolkien\|Tolkien]]'s [[legendarium]] have [[North Germanic languages\|Germanic]] and [[Old English]] elements, Tolkien mentioned that the survival of traces of the older language of the Stoors and the Bree-men resembled the survival of Celtic elements in England.<ref>{{App\|F2}}</ref>	+	While several names in [[J.R.R. Tolkien\|Tolkien]]'s [[legendarium]] have [[North Germanic languages\|Germanic]] and [[Old English]] elements, Tolkien mentioned that the survival of traces of the older language of the Stoors and the Bree-men resembled the survival of Celtic elements in England.<ref>{{App\|F2}}</ref> Tolkien said to the Dutch Translator, [[Max Schuchart]], that there were "'[[Celtic]]' elements in [[Buckland]] and [[Eastfarthing\|East-farthing]] names."<ref>{{HM\|RC}}, p. 93</ref>

	Celtic analogies with peoples are present mostly relating to [[Pre-Númenóreans]], especially [[Dunland]] and the [[Stoors\|Stoor]] [[hobbits]], which is evident in placenames such as [[Bree]] and the personal names of the [[Bucklanders]]. According to [[Paula Marmor]], the Celtic elements in [[Stoorish]] names represents an earlier language, related to the languages of the [[Bree-landers]].<ref>[[Jim Allan]] (ed.), ''[[An Introduction to Elvish]]'', "An etymological excursion among the Shire folk"</ref>		Celtic analogies with peoples are present mostly relating to [[Pre-Númenóreans]], especially [[Dunland]] and the [[Stoors\|Stoor]] [[hobbits]], which is evident in placenames such as [[Bree]] and the personal names of the [[Bucklanders]]. According to [[Paula Marmor]], the Celtic elements in [[Stoorish]] names represents an earlier language, related to the languages of the [[Bree-landers]].<ref>[[Jim Allan]] (ed.), ''[[An Introduction to Elvish]]'', "An etymological excursion among the Shire folk"</ref>
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	Other names having (or have been suggested as having) a Celtic influence include:		Other names having (or have been suggested as having) a Celtic influence include:
−		+	*''[[The Yale#Etymology\|Yale]]''
	*''[[Bree#Etymology\|Bree]]''		*''[[Bree#Etymology\|Bree]]''
	*''[[Carn Dûm#Etymology\|Carn Dûm]]''		*''[[Carn Dûm#Etymology\|Carn Dûm]]''

Sage: /* Mythology */

2012-05-22T09:01:10Z

Mythology

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:01, 22 May 2012
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	===Mythology===		===Mythology===
		+	Tolkien claimed knowledge of Celtic languages and legends, however expressed a dislike in Celtic legends and denied that his legendarium is "Celtic"<ref>[[Humphrey Carpenter]] ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography]]'' p. 26</ref>

−	Celtic concepts are present in some views about the [[Elves]] (see [[Elves#Celtic influence]]).	+	However, Celtic concepts are present in some views about the [[Elves]] (see [[Elves#Celtic influence]]).

	===Names===		===Names===

Sage: /* Names */

2012-04-14T15:55:19Z

Names

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:55, 14 April 2012
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	===Names===		===Names===

−	While several names in [[J.R.R. Tolkien\|Tolkien]]'s [[legendarium]] have [[North Germanic languages\|Germanic]] and [[Old English]] elements, Tolkien mentioned that the survival of traces of the older language of the Stoors and the Bree-men resembled the survival of Celtic elements in England.{{~~fact~~}}	+	While several names in [[J.R.R. Tolkien\|Tolkien]]'s [[legendarium]] have [[North Germanic languages\|Germanic]] and [[Old English]] elements, Tolkien mentioned that the survival of traces of the older language of the Stoors and the Bree-men resembled the survival of Celtic elements in England.<ref>{{App\|F2}}</ref>

−	Celtic analogies with peoples are present mostly relating to [[Pre-Númenóreans]], especially [[Dunland]] and the [[Stoors\|Stoor]] [[hobbits]], which is evident in placenames such as [[Bree]] and the personal names of the [[Bucklanders]].~~{{fact}}~~	+	Celtic analogies with peoples are present mostly relating to [[Pre-Númenóreans]], especially [[Dunland]] and the [[Stoors\|Stoor]] [[hobbits]], which is evident in placenames such as [[Bree]] and the personal names of the [[Bucklanders]]. According to [[Paula Marmor]], the Celtic elements in [[Stoorish]] names represents an earlier language, related to the languages of the [[Bree-landers]].<ref>[[Jim Allan]] (ed.), ''[[An Introduction to Elvish]]'', "An etymological excursion among the Shire folk"</ref>

−	The majority of Celtic names is seen in the family trees of the [[Brandybuck]]s. Names such as [[Rorimac Brandybuck\|Rorimac]], [[Dinodas Brandybuck\|Dinodas]], [[Gorbadoc Brandybuck\|Gorbadoc]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck\|Meriadoc]] and [[Marmadoc Brandybuck\|Marmadoc]] are Celtic.~~{{fact}}~~	+	The majority of Celtic names is seen in the family trees of the [[Brandybuck]]s. Names such as [[Rorimac Brandybuck\|Rorimac]], [[Dinodas Brandybuck\|Dinodas]], [[Gorbadoc Brandybuck\|Gorbadoc]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck\|Meriadoc]] and [[Marmadoc Brandybuck\|Marmadoc]] are Celtic.<ref>[[Jim Allan]] (ed.), ''[[An Introduction to Elvish]]'', "Giving of names"</ref>

	Other names having (or have been suggested as having) a Celtic influence include:		Other names having (or have been suggested as having) a Celtic influence include:

Morgan: Tweaked

2012-01-05T21:48:01Z

Tweaked

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:48, 5 January 2012
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−	'''Celtic''' ~~is a category of European~~ languages ~~which had close contact with Germanic~~ languages~~. The original inhabitants of England were Celts~~, ~~before~~ the ~~coming of the Anglo-Saxon (who spoke~~ [[~~Old English~~]]).	+	{{stub}}
		+	{{sources}}
		+	'''Celtic''' refers either to the [[Wikipedia:Celtic languages\|Celtic languages]], including [[Wikipedia:Breton language\|Breton]], [[Wikipedia:Cornish language\|Cornish]], [[Wikipedia:Goidelic languages\|Gaelic]], and [[Welsh]], or to the [[Wikipedia:Celts\|Celts]], an historic group of people.<ref>{{CG\|RG}}, pp. 148-52</ref>

−	~~[[Tolkien]]'s [[legendarium]] has mainly Germanic and English elements, but~~ Celtic ~~concepts are present in some views about~~ the ~~[[Elves]] (see [[Elves#Celtic influence]]). [[George Allen & Unwin]] also criticized ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' as being obscure and "too Celtic".~~	+	==Celtic influences on the Legendarium==

−	Celtic analogies with peoples are present mostly relating to [[Pre-Númenóreans]], especially [[Dunland]] and the [[Stoors\|Stoor]] [[hobbits]], which is evident in placenames such as [[Bree]] and the personal names of the [[Bucklanders]].	+	===Mythology===

−	~~It is possible that~~ the rivalry between the primitive Dunlendings and the blonde-haired, pseudo-Anglo-Saxon Rohirrim who migrated into the lands neighboring them was meant by Tolkien to be analagous to the real life conflicts that arose between the Anglo-Saxons in England and neighboring Celtic ~~peoples~~.	+	Celtic concepts are present in some views about the [[Elves]] (see [[Elves#Celtic influence]]).

−	This is supported by the fact that placenames of [[Bree-land]] are Celtic. The [[Stoors\|Stoor]] [[Hobbits]] (who had stayed long in [[Dunland]]), have Celtic elements in their names. Tolkien mentioned that the survival of traces of the older language of the Stoors and the Bree-men resembled the survival of Celtic elements in England.	+	===Names===
−	==~~Celtic names in the legendarium~~==	+
−	~~The way Tolkien used Germanic, English and Old English names to represent [[Westron]] and related [[Mannish]] languages, genuine Celtic names are scarcely used for more alien languages.~~	+

−	*[[~~Bree~~]] ~~(Brythonic) "hill"~~	+	While several names in [[J.R.R. Tolkien\|Tolkien]]'s [[legendarium]] have [[North Germanic languages\|Germanic]] and [[Old English]] elements, Tolkien mentioned that the survival of traces of the older language of the Stoors and the Bree-men resembled the survival of Celtic elements in England.{{fact}}
−	*[[~~Carn Dûm~~]] ~~(Gaelic) "mountain fortress"~~	+
−	*Chet (in [[~~Chetwood~~]] and [[~~Archet~~]]~~) "wood"~~	+
−	*Car (in ~~[[Carrock]]) "rock"~~	+

−	~~Although Tolkien himself stated in a letter that he was not fond of the Irish language, it seems that,~~ to ~~a certain degree~~, ~~he based~~ the ~~language~~ of the ~~pre-Numenoreans~~ of ~~Gondor on Irish (contrasted with~~ the ~~pre-Numenoreans~~ of ~~Eriador~~, ~~who spoke~~ a ~~more Brythonic-influenced language). This is evident in the Dunlending term~~ ''~~forgoil~~''~~, and the Gondorian placenames~~ ''~~Eilenach~~'' and ''~~Lossarnach~~'' ~~(although the "loss-" of the latter is Sindarin), all of which exhibit phonical similarites to Irish Gaelic terms.~~	+	Celtic analogies with peoples are present mostly relating to [[Pre-Númenóreans]], especially [[Dunland]] and the [[Stoors\|Stoor]] [[hobbits]], which is evident in placenames such as [[Bree]] and the personal names of the [[Bucklanders]].{{fact}}
		+
		+	The majority of Celtic names is seen in the family trees of the [[Brandybuck]]s. Names such as [[Rorimac Brandybuck\|Rorimac]], [[Dinodas Brandybuck\|Dinodas]], [[Gorbadoc Brandybuck\|Gorbadoc]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck\|Meriadoc]] and [[Marmadoc Brandybuck\|Marmadoc]] are Celtic.{{fact}}
		+
		+	Other names having (or have been suggested as having) a Celtic influence include:
		+
		+	*''[[Bree#Etymology\|Bree]]''
		+	*''[[Carn Dûm#Etymology\|Carn Dûm]]''
		+	*''[[Chetwood#Etymology\|Chetwood]] and [[Archet#Etymology\|Archet]]''
		+	*''[[Carrock#Etymology\|Carrock]]''

−	The majority of Celtic names is seen in the family trees of the [[Brandybuck]]s. Names such as [[Rorimac Brandybuck\|Rorimac]], [[Dinodas Brandybuck\|Dinodas]], [[Gorbadoc Brandybuck\|Gorbadoc]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck\|Meriadoc]] and [[Marmadoc Brandybuck\|Marmadoc]] are Celtic.
	==Externals links==		==Externals links==
	*{{WP\|Celtic languages}}		*{{WP\|Celtic languages}}
−	[[~~category~~:languages (real-world)]]	+	{{references}}
		+	[[Category:languages (real-world)]]

166.248.72.76 at 18:08, 5 January 2012

2012-01-05T18:08:07Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:08, 5 January 2012
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	*Chet (in [[Chetwood]] and [[Archet]]) "wood"		*Chet (in [[Chetwood]] and [[Archet]]) "wood"
	*Car (in [[Carrock]]) "rock"		*Car (in [[Carrock]]) "rock"
		+
		+	Although Tolkien himself stated in a letter that he was not fond of the Irish language, it seems that, to a certain degree, he based the language of the pre-Numenoreans of Gondor on Irish (contrasted with the pre-Numenoreans of Eriador, who spoke a more Brythonic-influenced language). This is evident in the Dunlending term ''forgoil'', and the Gondorian placenames ''Eilenach'' and ''Lossarnach'' (although the "loss-" of the latter is Sindarin), all of which exhibit phonical similarites to Irish Gaelic terms.

	The majority of Celtic names is seen in the family trees of the [[Brandybuck]]s. Names such as [[Rorimac Brandybuck\|Rorimac]], [[Dinodas Brandybuck\|Dinodas]], [[Gorbadoc Brandybuck\|Gorbadoc]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck\|Meriadoc]] and [[Marmadoc Brandybuck\|Marmadoc]] are Celtic.		The majority of Celtic names is seen in the family trees of the [[Brandybuck]]s. Names such as [[Rorimac Brandybuck\|Rorimac]], [[Dinodas Brandybuck\|Dinodas]], [[Gorbadoc Brandybuck\|Gorbadoc]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck\|Meriadoc]] and [[Marmadoc Brandybuck\|Marmadoc]] are Celtic.

Morgan: article name in bold + external link

2011-06-30T18:17:34Z

article name in bold + external link

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:17, 30 June 2011
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−	Celtic is a category of European languages which had close contact with Germanic languages. The original inhabitants of England were Celts, before the coming of the Anglo-Saxon (who spoke [[Old English]]).	+	'''Celtic''' is a category of European languages which had close contact with Germanic languages. The original inhabitants of England were Celts, before the coming of the Anglo-Saxon (who spoke [[Old English]]).

	[[Tolkien]]'s [[legendarium]] has mainly Germanic and English elements, but Celtic concepts are present in some views about the [[Elves]] (see [[Elves#Celtic influence]]). [[George Allen & Unwin]] also criticized ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' as being obscure and "too Celtic".		[[Tolkien]]'s [[legendarium]] has mainly Germanic and English elements, but Celtic concepts are present in some views about the [[Elves]] (see [[Elves#Celtic influence]]). [[George Allen & Unwin]] also criticized ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' as being obscure and "too Celtic".
Line 17:		Line 17:

	The majority of Celtic names is seen in the family trees of the [[Brandybuck]]s. Names such as [[Rorimac Brandybuck\|Rorimac]], [[Dinodas Brandybuck\|Dinodas]], [[Gorbadoc Brandybuck\|Gorbadoc]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck\|Meriadoc]] and [[Marmadoc Brandybuck\|Marmadoc]] are Celtic.		The majority of Celtic names is seen in the family trees of the [[Brandybuck]]s. Names such as [[Rorimac Brandybuck\|Rorimac]], [[Dinodas Brandybuck\|Dinodas]], [[Gorbadoc Brandybuck\|Gorbadoc]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck\|Meriadoc]] and [[Marmadoc Brandybuck\|Marmadoc]] are Celtic.
		+	==Externals links==
		+	*{{WP\|Celtic languages}}
	[[category:languages (real-world)]]		[[category:languages (real-world)]]

Sage at 13:34, 12 January 2011

2011-01-12T13:34:40Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:34, 12 January 2011
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	[[Tolkien]]'s [[legendarium]] has mainly Germanic and English elements, but Celtic concepts are present in some views about the [[Elves]] (see [[Elves#Celtic influence]]). [[George Allen & Unwin]] also criticized ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' as being obscure and "too Celtic".		[[Tolkien]]'s [[legendarium]] has mainly Germanic and English elements, but Celtic concepts are present in some views about the [[Elves]] (see [[Elves#Celtic influence]]). [[George Allen & Unwin]] also criticized ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' as being obscure and "too Celtic".

−	Celtic analogies with peoples are present mostly relating to [[Pre-~~Númenórians~~]], especially [[Dunland]] and the [[Stoors\|Stoor]] [[hobbits]], which is evident in placenames such as [[Bree]] and the personal names of the [[Bucklanders]].	+	Celtic analogies with peoples are present mostly relating to [[Pre-Númenóreans]], especially [[Dunland]] and the [[Stoors\|Stoor]] [[hobbits]], which is evident in placenames such as [[Bree]] and the personal names of the [[Bucklanders]].

	It is possible that the rivalry between the primitive Dunlendings and the blonde-haired, pseudo-Anglo-Saxon Rohirrim who migrated into the lands neighboring them was meant by Tolkien to be analagous to the real life conflicts that arose between the Anglo-Saxons in England and neighboring Celtic peoples.		It is possible that the rivalry between the primitive Dunlendings and the blonde-haired, pseudo-Anglo-Saxon Rohirrim who migrated into the lands neighboring them was meant by Tolkien to be analagous to the real life conflicts that arose between the Anglo-Saxons in England and neighboring Celtic peoples.

−	This is supported by the fact that placenames of [[Bree-land~~]] like [[Bree]], [[Archet]] and [[Combe~~]] are Celtic. The [[Stoors\|Stoor]] [[Hobbits]] (who had stayed long in [[Dunland]]), have Celtic elements in their names. Tolkien mentioned that the survival of traces of the older language of the Stoors and the Bree-men resembled the survival of Celtic elements in England.	+	This is supported by the fact that placenames of [[Bree-land]] are Celtic. The [[Stoors\|Stoor]] [[Hobbits]] (who had stayed long in [[Dunland]]), have Celtic elements in their names. Tolkien mentioned that the survival of traces of the older language of the Stoors and the Bree-men resembled the survival of Celtic elements in England.
	==Celtic names in the legendarium==		==Celtic names in the legendarium==
	The way Tolkien used Germanic, English and Old English names to represent [[Westron]] and related [[Mannish]] languages, genuine Celtic names are scarcely used for more alien languages.		The way Tolkien used Germanic, English and Old English names to represent [[Westron]] and related [[Mannish]] languages, genuine Celtic names are scarcely used for more alien languages.

Sage: /* Celtic names in the legendarium */

2011-01-12T13:33:22Z

Celtic names in the legendarium

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:33, 12 January 2011
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	*[[Carn Dûm]] (Gaelic) "mountain fortress"		*[[Carn Dûm]] (Gaelic) "mountain fortress"
	*Chet (in [[Chetwood]] and [[Archet]]) "wood"		*Chet (in [[Chetwood]] and [[Archet]]) "wood"
		+	*Car (in [[Carrock]]) "rock"
		+
		+	The majority of Celtic names is seen in the family trees of the [[Brandybuck]]s. Names such as [[Rorimac Brandybuck\|Rorimac]], [[Dinodas Brandybuck\|Dinodas]], [[Gorbadoc Brandybuck\|Gorbadoc]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck\|Meriadoc]] and [[Marmadoc Brandybuck\|Marmadoc]] are Celtic.
		+	[[category:languages (real-world)]]