Forum:Borders of Rohan, Rovanion and Rhûn
All other kingdoms (eg. Mordor, Gondor, Lindon, etc.) in the West of Middle-earth have obvious geographical borders (eg. Mountains). In the region of Rohan, Rhovanion and Rhûn, however, there are no mountain ranges to seperate them, only rivers and forest. So, my question, where exactly do their borders lie? -- Explorer of Arda 09:53, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Edit: Drat. I misspellt "Rhovanion" in the title. How can I fox that?
- As for fixing: you could press "Move", but it's not important. We know what you mean.
- Rohan has rivers as borders - the Isen (and later the Adorn) in the West, Anduin, Entwash and the Mering stream in the East. Fangorn marked the northern border.
- Rhûn and Rhovanion don't have clear borders. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:37, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
- Ah, I see. I thought maby Rhûn and Rhovanion were partly seperated by the River Running, with Rhûn to its east and Rhovanion to its west or something like that.
- Quick off topic question. Do you happend to know how the East Sea was formed? -- Explorer of Arda 11:55, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
- According to the book I read (the one with the made-up names and mis-labbelings) it was origionally, like the Sea of Helcar, a crater left behind by the destruction of the lamps. The sea grew (somehow and for some reason) into the East Sea (the book called it the "Inner Sea") and split Hyemenor (is that even the Dark Land's real name?) and Middle-earth into two seperate continents.
- Is that plausible? I'm just asking, 'cause I wont just believe anything that book says, now that I know it's fanon... -- Explorer of Arda 12:57, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
- Also made up, then (as far as we know). Do you think it's plausible theory for the East Sea's formation? -- Explorer of Arda 13:05, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
- In an older part of the Sil, somewhere in HOME, it is said that the sea was remainent of the sea of Helcar. In latter parts it already existed in the first age. I belief in the second one. I think there are no grounds to protect that argument, i think its just speculation or fanon. BTW Hye means south. So it couldn't be in the east, I think. And in what book al those fanon is?--Amroth 18:05, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Hyemenor (Southland - aka Darkland) is the southern continent of Arda, directly bellow Middle-earth. The two continents are seperated by the East Sea. It's the sea, not the continets, that lies to the east, though it is technically in the centre of Arda. -- Explorer of Arda 11:42, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
- ow okay, the east sea is fanon, isnt it? --Amroth 14:24, 31 March 2010 (UTC)<math>Insert formula here</math>
- Not at all!! The East Sea is the sea that devides Middle-Earth form the Dark Land (aka Southland or Hyarmenor). You can see both the Dark Land and the East Sea on the map (of the First Age - by Tolkien himself) below:
- Here's the link to a great map of Arda's northern hemisphere, also during the First Age: http://www.theonering.com/images/medialibrary/first_age_of_arda.gif You can also see the East Sea there.
- That map at the link, isn't it published in the Atlas of Middle-Earth.
- Yep. That's why I'm sure the map is authentic. You see? The East Sea isn't Fanon atall! =] -- Explorer of Arda 08:14, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
- Than I beg your pardon about that.
- o0 Are you sure? (Refer to source please) -- Explorer of Arda 11:56, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
- and that map in the Atlas of ME, is it also in the first edition. I can't find it. --Amroth 13:02, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
- As far as I know it isn’t in the first edition. I don’t have a 1st ed, but have seen one fairly recently. That map draws heavily on source material revealed in the HoMe series, especially in SoMe, which appeared after the 1st ed of the Atlas of Me. — Mithrennaith 04:03, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
- @Amroth: That link you gave me (the "here" one) says that Mordor was created/founded/whatever-Morgoth-did during the Second Age, not the first. o0
- @Mithrennaith: I see. I haven't really checked those yet. But, in your opinion, would that First Age map count as canon or fanon? -- Explorer of Arda 06:39, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
- @Explorer of Arda: That is impossible, Morgoth wasn't in Middle-Earth, not even in Arda, at the second age. And I think it was before the sun rised up the first time, because he almost whole time besieged. So how could he do something in Mordor, if I only one time leaved his base, and that was to corrupt Humans. --Amroth 14:31, 6 April 2010 (UTC)