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Forum:Did Frodo and Bilbo go to Valinor or Tol Eressëa?

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So, can we say that Frodo, Bilbo, Sam, and Gimli went to Valinor or Tol Eressëa? I don't think we can. At best we can only say that they passed into the West, the [[Uttermost West]], the [[Undying Lands]], or [[Aman]]. Thoughts?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:53, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 
So, can we say that Frodo, Bilbo, Sam, and Gimli went to Valinor or Tol Eressëa? I don't think we can. At best we can only say that they passed into the West, the [[Uttermost West]], the [[Undying Lands]], or [[Aman]]. Thoughts?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:53, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
  
{{References}}
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:I don't think there is a definete answer. We should just use "west". --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:15, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
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::I've just stumbled across this:
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::{{Blockquote|The sojourn of Frodo ... in Eressëa - then on to Mandos? - waas only an extended form of this [how mortal spirits got to Mandos].|Tolkien<ref>{{MR|P4q}}, p. 365</ref>}}
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::--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:42, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
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Latest revision as of 22:42, 24 March 2013

Tolkien Gateway > Forums > Did Frodo and Bilbo go to Valinor or Tol Eressëa?


I'm sure that this discussion has been had before, and I suspect from the outset that we don't know the answer. It is said at the end of The Lord of the Rings,

And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise.
—Narrator[1]

Here Tolkien simply states that he passed into the "West".

Referring to the Eldar in Letter 154 Tolkien wrote that,

[...]they should always be able to leave Middle-earth, if they wished, and pass over Sea to the True West, by the Straight Road, and so come to Eressëa – but so pass out of time and history, never to return.
J.R.R. Tolkien[2]

By implication this would mean that those who travel along the Straight Road come first to Eressëa, and perhaps the 'white shores and beyond them a far green country' refers to Eressëa.

In Letter 325 Tolkien writes about Frodo and travelling into the West,

As for Frodo or other mortals, they could only dwell in Aman for a limited time – whether brief or long.
—Tolkien[3]

Earlier in the same letter Tolkien wrote,

The 'immortals' who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman – the undying lands of Valinor and Eressëa, an island assigned to the Eldar
—Tolkien[4]

Therefore he used "Aman" as an umbrella term for Valinor and Tol Eressëa.

So, can we say that Frodo, Bilbo, Sam, and Gimli went to Valinor or Tol Eressëa? I don't think we can. At best we can only say that they passed into the West, the Uttermost West, the Undying Lands, or Aman. Thoughts?-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  13:53, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't think there is a definete answer. We should just use "west". --Amroth 14:15, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
I've just stumbled across this:
The sojourn of Frodo ... in Eressëa - then on to Mandos? - waas only an extended form of this [how mortal spirits got to Mandos].
—Tolkien[5]
-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  22:42, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

[edit] References

  1. J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, The Return of the King, "The Grey Havens"
  2. J.R.R. Tolkien; Humphrey Carpenter, Christopher Tolkien (eds.), The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 154, (dated 25 September 1954)
  3. J.R.R. Tolkien; Humphrey Carpenter, Christopher Tolkien (eds.), The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 325, (dated 17 July 1971)
  4. J.R.R. Tolkien; Humphrey Carpenter, Christopher Tolkien (eds.), The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 325, (dated 17 July 1971)
  5. J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Morgoth's Ring, "Part Four. Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth", "Appendix: 'The Converse of Manwë and Eru' and later conceptions of Elvish reincarnation", p. 365