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Forum:Noncanon VS Non-Canon

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(On strange things in Dutch)
 
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I saw that there existed both cats that have Noncanon, Non-canon and Non-Canon in their name. (examples: [[:Category:Noncanon Men]] and [[:Category:Non-Canon Locations]]). With of these two is the good one? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]]
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I saw that there existed both cats that have Noncanon, Non-canon and Non-Canon in their name. (examples: [[:Category:Noncanon Men]] and {{Redlink|[[:Category:Non-Canon Locations]]}}). With of these two is the good one? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]]
  
 
:Wiktionary says they're [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/noncanonical both] [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/non-canonical correct] ("Noncanon" and "Non-canon"). I personally don't like the "Non-Canon", but I'm neutral on the others. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:20, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 
:Wiktionary says they're [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/noncanonical both] [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/non-canonical correct] ("Noncanon" and "Non-canon"). I personally don't like the "Non-Canon", but I'm neutral on the others. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:20, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 17:04, 13 June 2012

Tolkien Gateway > Council > Noncanon VS Non-Canon


I saw that there existed both cats that have Noncanon, Non-canon and Non-Canon in their name. (examples: Category:Noncanon Men and

Category:Non-Canon Locations[former link]). With of these two is the good one? --Amroth
Wiktionary says they're both correct ("Noncanon" and "Non-canon"). I personally don't like the "Non-Canon", but I'm neutral on the others. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:20, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, they're interchangeable. I personally prefer 'Non-Canon'. -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  11:07, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Would that be "Non-Canon" or "Non-canon"? -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:16, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
'Non-canon' is probably more correct than 'Non-Canon'. -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  15:43, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I would be content to settle for ‘Non-canon’. Like Ederchil, I feel ‘Non-Canon’ to be wrong. I do accept ‘Noncanon’ would be correct as well, but it doesn’t feel any more appropriate to me. — Mithrennaith 19:59, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I think "Non-Canon" is probably wrong, too (I was taught that in hyphenated words you only capitalise the initial word, unless the subsequent parts are capitalised in their own right, e.g. "Middle-earth" but "Saxe-Coburg-Gotha"). I definitely prefer "Non-canon", and these "Noncanon" categories has irritated me immensely for some time. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:50, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
I was taught that it would be Middle-Earth and Non-Canon, but I learnt that for Dutch so it could be wrong in English. --Amroth
It would not always be true even in Dutch. There is no reason why niet-canon would get a capital in Dutch. In English it’s also ‘non-canon’ — the only reason we’re discussing ‘Non-canon’ vs. ‘Noncanon’ and ‘Non-Canon’ here is that category names always have to start with a capital initial.
Midden-aarde is a special case, not altogether amenable to rules, because of the circumstances under which it arose. Under Dutch rules it would have to be Middenaarde — the hyphen is there only because the translator of Tolkien’s works slavishly followed the English form of ‘Middle-earth’ and it became fixed as a specialist term. But ‘Middle-earth’ gets the hyphen only to avoid a clash of vowels. ‘Middle-Earth’ is incorrect, because there is no ‘Earth’ in ‘Middle-earth’: it’s derived from Anglo-Saxon middangeard — litterally ‘middlegarth’ or ‘middleyard’, compare Norse Midgård. So, via Middle-English Middelerde we get ‘Middleearth’, except that would not be pronounced the right way — hence the need for the hyphen.
So Midden-Aarde is likewise incorrect, Middenaarde would be the correct form — as Mittelerde is in German, not Mittel-Erde — and as there is there no clash of vowels in Middenaarde, no hyphen would be needed; and it might even be more appropriate to use Middelaarde, or even Middelgaarde. But Midden-aarde got ossified, and we are stuck with it, unless and until we can convince the Dutch publishers to correct it — and even then the term has become so common and widespread that it wouldn’t be wise to do more than drop the hyphen. — Mithrennaith 02:40, 17 September 2010 (UTC)