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Forum:Proposed article renamings

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:I added every userbox that I saw listed in the category. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 05:40, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
:I added every userbox that I saw listed in the category. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 05:40, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
So, back to the main issue.  Do we have consensus on [[Melkor]]? - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 17:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Revision as of 17:25, 10 February 2010

Tolkien Gateway > Council > Proposed article renamings

Especially since I don't have higher user priveleges and this is a wiki of multiple users, I'm posting this to seek consensus on an issue.

  • I think the primary article for Melkor should be at Melkor and not Morgoth. True, he is primarily known as Morgoth during the events in Beleriand in the First Age (it's the epithet Fëanor gave him during that age), but he is primarily referred to as Melkor in other eras. Even as the King's Men in Númenor gain more dominance, don't they worship Melkor instead of Morgoth, since it's the name Sauron preferred to call him? Melkor means "mighty", and Morgoth means "black enemy", afterall, and Melkor was certainly not Sauron's enemy. Also, I seem to recall Dagor Dagorath details referring to him mainly as Melkor—once again, Morgoth is primarily a Fëanor-era name. In the long run scheme of things (in terms of the story's timeline), Melkor seems the more meaningful name. - Gilgamesh 14:31, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
  • I think Aragorn II should instead be Aragorn Elessar. He was Aragorn II, but as a Chieftain of the Dúnedain. When he assumed his greater role, he became Elessar. But of course we can't forget he is also Aragorn, and I've seen the name Aragorn Elessar around. Bad idea?

That's all I can think of for the time being. - Gilgamesh 14:31, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Agree on the first.
Disagree on the second. Neither "Aragorn Elessar", nor its full Sindarin form "Aragorn Edhelharn", was ever used in Tolkien's works. I wouldn't mind making it "Aragorn", though. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 15:38, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I totally agree with the Morgoth/Melkor switch, but Aragorn should just be "Aragorn." --Breragor (TalkContribsEdits) 19:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

  • I wouldn’t object to moving Morgoth to Melkor, but neither am I strongly in favour. After all, it is as Morgoth that he plays the role that he is best known for in the Legendarium: that of the original Dark Lord of the First Era.
  • On Aragorn II I agree completely with Ederchil. The idea Aragorn Elessar is a useable, let alone acceptable, name betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of the linguistic sensitivities of the man who once said he wrote The Lord of the Rings to create a world in which elen síla lumenn’ omentielvo was a common form of greeting.
-- Mithrennaith 01:44, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I drop my proposal for Aragorn Elessar. I still think Melkor should be a more primary article than Morgoth. And yes, considering I've been doing heavy linguistic edits on the sites, I entirely appreciate the irony of "Aragorn Elessar". It would either have to be "Aracorno Elessar" or "Aragorn Edhelharn", but none of these terms has common use. Then again, there is "Elessar (character)"...but that would gloss over that his original name was always Aragorn. I'll just let that particular issue be for now. - Gilgamesh 02:07, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh, by the way, on a totally unrelated matter, has anyone seen what I did with Tolkien Gateway:Userboxes? I created some new ones too. - Gilgamesh 02:08, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for adding my "This user thinks the Evil guys are bad" userbox; I always thought it was a good one --Breragor (TalkContribsEdits) 05:00, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

I added every userbox that I saw listed in the category. - Gilgamesh 05:40, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

So, back to the main issue. Do we have consensus on Melkor? - Gilgamesh 17:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)