Letter 190 - Revision history

Mith: Changed date format

2011-06-11T10:55:07Z

Changed date format

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:55, 11 June 2011
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	\| #=190		\| #=190
	\| to=[[Rayner Unwin]]		\| to=[[Rayner Unwin]]
−	\| date=[[~~1956#~~July~~\|July 3~~]], [[1956]]	+	\| date=[[3 July]] [[1956]]
	\| subject=[[Translations]]		\| subject=[[Translations]]
	}}{{letter\|190}}		}}{{letter\|190}}

Gamling at 06:28, 3 June 2011

2011-06-03T06:28:34Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:28, 3 June 2011
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	}}{{letter\|190}}		}}{{letter\|190}}
	==Summary==		==Summary==
−	Tolkien had been sent a list of [[Translated names\|translations]] to the nomenclature for the first translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', into Dutch by [[Max Schuchart]]. Tolkien ~~writes~~ that he ~~objects~~ to translations of personal nomenclature; [[the Shire]] is based on (or, as he ~~calls~~ it himself, "a parody of") rural England; plus, the toponymy of the Shire is wholly different from that of the Netherlands.	+	Tolkien had been sent a list of [[Translated names\|translations]] to the nomenclature for the first translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', into Dutch by [[Max Schuchart]]. Tolkien wrote that he objected to translations of personal nomenclature; [[the Shire]] was based on (or, as he called it himself, "a parody of") rural England; plus, the toponymy of the Shire was wholly different from that of the Netherlands.

−	Concerning the map "''A Part of the Shire''", Tolkien ~~thinks~~ translating it to "''Een deel von ''(sic)'' 'The Shire<nowiki>'</nowiki>''" sufficient. By not translating the [[The Lord of the Rings Appendices\|Appendices]], the Translator (this word is capitalized throughout the letter) got himself into problems; Anglo-Saxon is not like Dutch, as Schuchart had translated, it is related to English.	+	Concerning the map "''[[A Part of the Shire]]''", Tolkien thought translating it to "''Een deel von ''(sic)'' 'The Shire<nowiki>'</nowiki>''" sufficient. By not translating the [[The Lord of the Rings Appendices\|Appendices]], the Translator (this word was capitalized throughout the letter) got himself into problems; Anglo-Saxon was not like Dutch, as Schuchart had translated, it was related to English.

−	Tolkien sent back a letter containing a detailed commentary, and ~~suggests~~ leaving the maps untranslated, and leave personal nomenclature alone as much as possible. He could provide a list of etymologies that could be included.	+	Tolkien sent back a letter containing a detailed commentary, and suggested leaving the maps untranslated, and leave personal nomenclature alone as much as possible. He could provide a list of etymologies that could be included.

−	Tolkien's most important demand is that the word [[Hobbits\|hobbit]] ~~stays~~ unaltered; no more "[[Hompen]]".	+	Tolkien's most important demand was that the word [[Hobbits\|hobbit]] stayed unaltered; no more "[[Hompen]]".

−	He ~~closes~~ this letter with an apology to his rigidity, but translations into French of [[wikipedia:Beatrix Potter\|Beatrix Potter]] turned out not so well. For example, [[wikipedia:The Tale of Mrs. Tiggy-Winkle\|Mrs. Tiggywinkle]] became ''Poupette à l'épingle''.	+	He closed this letter with an apology for his rigidity, but translations into French of [[wikipedia:Beatrix Potter\|Beatrix Potter]] had turned out not so well. For example, [[wikipedia:The Tale of Mrs. Tiggy-Winkle\|Mrs. Tiggywinkle]] became ''Poupette à l'épingle''.

	==Notes==		==Notes==
	* Schuchart did translate the placenames.		* Schuchart did translate the placenames.
	* ''Poupette à l'épingle'' means as much as "Puppet on a pin".		* ''Poupette à l'épingle'' means as much as "Puppet on a pin".
−	* To show that translating Shirenames is not necessary, Tolkien ~~translates~~ several Dutch cities into English. There are two puzzling forms: ''Hedge'', a translation of ''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s Gravenhage'', instead of ''Count's Hedge'' (this city is commonly known as [[wikipedia:The Hague\|The Hague]]), and ''Applethorn'', a literal translation of ''[[wikipedia:Apeldoorn\|Apeldoorn]]'', where ''Appledores'' would be more correct.	+	* To show that translating Shirenames was not necessary, Tolkien translated several Dutch cities into English. There are two puzzling forms: ''Hedge'', a translation of ''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s Gravenhage'', instead of ''Count's Hedge'' (this city is commonly known as [[wikipedia:The Hague\|The Hague]]), and ''Applethorn'', a literal translation of ''[[wikipedia:Apeldoorn\|Apeldoorn]]'', where ''Appledores'' would be more correct.
	{{letters}}		{{letters}}

Ederchil at 10:19, 31 August 2010

2010-08-31T10:19:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:19, 31 August 2010
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−	{{letter\|190}}	+	{{letter infobox
		+	\| #=190
		+	\| to=[[Rayner Unwin]]
		+	\| date=[[1956#July\|July 3]], [[1956]]
		+	\| subject=[[Translations]]
		+	}}{{letter\|190}}
	==Summary==		==Summary==
−	~~This fragment of a letter, dated [[July 3]], [[1956]], was written to [[Rayner Unwin]].~~ Tolkien had been sent a list of [[Translated names\|translations]] to the nomenclature for the first translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', into Dutch by [[Max Schuchart]]. Tolkien writes that he objects to translations of personal nomenclature; [[the Shire]] is based on (or, as he calls it himself, "a parody of") rural England; plus, the toponymy of the Shire is wholly different from that of the Netherlands.	+	Tolkien had been sent a list of [[Translated names\|translations]] to the nomenclature for the first translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', into Dutch by [[Max Schuchart]]. Tolkien writes that he objects to translations of personal nomenclature; [[the Shire]] is based on (or, as he calls it himself, "a parody of") rural England; plus, the toponymy of the Shire is wholly different from that of the Netherlands.

−	Concerning the map "''A Part of the Shire''", Tolkien thinks translating it to "''Een deel von 'The Shire<nowiki>'</nowiki>''" sufficient. By not translating the [[The Lord of the Rings Appendices\|Appendices]], the Translator (this word is capitalized throughout the letter) got himself into problems; Anglo-Saxon is not like Dutch, as Schuchart had translated, it is related to English.	+	Concerning the map "''A Part of the Shire''", Tolkien thinks translating it to "''Een deel von ''(sic)'' 'The Shire<nowiki>'</nowiki>''" sufficient. By not translating the [[The Lord of the Rings Appendices\|Appendices]], the Translator (this word is capitalized throughout the letter) got himself into problems; Anglo-Saxon is not like Dutch, as Schuchart had translated, it is related to English.

	Tolkien sent back a letter containing a detailed commentary, and suggests leaving the maps untranslated, and leave personal nomenclature alone as much as possible. He could provide a list of etymologies that could be included.		Tolkien sent back a letter containing a detailed commentary, and suggests leaving the maps untranslated, and leave personal nomenclature alone as much as possible. He could provide a list of etymologies that could be included.
Line 9:		Line 14:
	Tolkien's most important demand is that the word [[Hobbits\|hobbit]] stays unaltered; no more "[[Hompen]]".		Tolkien's most important demand is that the word [[Hobbits\|hobbit]] stays unaltered; no more "[[Hompen]]".

−	He closes this letter with an apology to his rigidity, but translations into French of [~~http://en.~~wikipedia~~.org/wiki/Beatrix_Potter~~ Beatrix Potter] turned out not so well. For example, [~~http://en.~~wikipedia.~~org/wiki/The_Tale_of_Mrs._Tiggy~~-Winkle Mrs. Tiggywinkle] became ''Poupette à l'épingle''.	+	He closes this letter with an apology to his rigidity, but translations into French of [[wikipedia:Beatrix Potter\|Beatrix Potter]] turned out not so well. For example, [[wikipedia:The Tale of Mrs. Tiggy-Winkle\|Mrs. Tiggywinkle]] became ''Poupette à l'épingle''.

	==Notes==		==Notes==
	* Schuchart did translate the placenames.		* Schuchart did translate the placenames.
	* ''Poupette à l'épingle'' means as much as "Puppet on a pin".		* ''Poupette à l'épingle'' means as much as "Puppet on a pin".
−	* To show that translating Shirenames is not necessary, Tolkien translates several Dutch cities into English. There are two puzzling forms: ''Hedge'', a translation of ''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s Gravenhage'', instead of ''Count'~~shedge~~'' (this city is commonly known as The Hague), and ''Applethorn'', a literal translation of ''Apeldoorn'', where ''Appledores'' would be more correct.	+	* To show that translating Shirenames is not necessary, Tolkien translates several Dutch cities into English. There are two puzzling forms: ''Hedge'', a translation of ''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s Gravenhage'', instead of ''Count's Hedge'' (this city is commonly known as [[wikipedia:The Hague\|The Hague]]), and ''Applethorn'', a literal translation of ''[[wikipedia:Apeldoorn\|Apeldoorn]]'', where ''Appledores'' would be more correct.
	{{letters}}		{{letters}}

Morgan: /* Summary */ Wrong. It was not the notorious Ohlmarks who invented "Hompen", it was another Swedish translator (sigh!)

2010-07-08T17:37:36Z

Summary: Wrong. It was not the notorious Ohlmarks who invented "Hompen", it was another Swedish translator (sigh!)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:37, 8 July 2010
Line 7:		Line 7:
	Tolkien sent back a letter containing a detailed commentary, and suggests leaving the maps untranslated, and leave personal nomenclature alone as much as possible. He could provide a list of etymologies that could be included.		Tolkien sent back a letter containing a detailed commentary, and suggests leaving the maps untranslated, and leave personal nomenclature alone as much as possible. He could provide a list of etymologies that could be included.

−	Tolkien's most important demand is that the word [[Hobbits\|hobbit]] stays unaltered; no more "[[~~Åke Ohlmarks\|~~Hompen]]".	+	Tolkien's most important demand is that the word [[Hobbits\|hobbit]] stays unaltered; no more "[[Hompen]]".
		+
		+	He closes this letter with an apology to his rigidity, but translations into French of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrix_Potter Beatrix Potter] turned out not so well. For example, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_Mrs._Tiggy-Winkle Mrs. Tiggywinkle] became ''Poupette à l'épingle''.

−	He closes this letter with an apology to his rigidity, but translations into French of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrix_Potter Beatrix Potter] turned out not so well. For example, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_Mrs._Tiggy-Winkle Mrs. Tiggywinkle] became ''Poupette à l'épingle''.
	==Notes==		==Notes==
	* Schuchart did translate the placenames.		* Schuchart did translate the placenames.

Mithbot: Bot Message: changing link to The Lord of the Rings Appendices

2010-07-07T08:13:37Z

Bot Message: changing link to The Lord of the Rings Appendices

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:13, 7 July 2010
Line 3:		Line 3:
	This fragment of a letter, dated [[July 3]], [[1956]], was written to [[Rayner Unwin]]. Tolkien had been sent a list of [[Translated names\|translations]] to the nomenclature for the first translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', into Dutch by [[Max Schuchart]]. Tolkien writes that he objects to translations of personal nomenclature; [[the Shire]] is based on (or, as he calls it himself, "a parody of") rural England; plus, the toponymy of the Shire is wholly different from that of the Netherlands.		This fragment of a letter, dated [[July 3]], [[1956]], was written to [[Rayner Unwin]]. Tolkien had been sent a list of [[Translated names\|translations]] to the nomenclature for the first translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', into Dutch by [[Max Schuchart]]. Tolkien writes that he objects to translations of personal nomenclature; [[the Shire]] is based on (or, as he calls it himself, "a parody of") rural England; plus, the toponymy of the Shire is wholly different from that of the Netherlands.

−	Concerning the map "''A Part of the Shire''", Tolkien thinks translating it to "''Een deel von 'The Shire<nowiki>'</nowiki>''" sufficient. By not translating the [[Appendices]], the Translator (this word is capitalized throughout the letter) got himself into problems; Anglo-Saxon is not like Dutch, as Schuchart had translated, it is related to English.	+	Concerning the map "''A Part of the Shire''", Tolkien thinks translating it to "''Een deel von 'The Shire<nowiki>'</nowiki>''" sufficient. By not translating the [[The Lord of the Rings Appendices\|Appendices]], the Translator (this word is capitalized throughout the letter) got himself into problems; Anglo-Saxon is not like Dutch, as Schuchart had translated, it is related to English.

	Tolkien sent back a letter containing a detailed commentary, and suggests leaving the maps untranslated, and leave personal nomenclature alone as much as possible. He could provide a list of etymologies that could be included.		Tolkien sent back a letter containing a detailed commentary, and suggests leaving the maps untranslated, and leave personal nomenclature alone as much as possible. He could provide a list of etymologies that could be included.

Ederchil: redlink

2008-07-25T19:44:21Z

redlink

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:44, 25 July 2008
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	{{letter\|190}}		{{letter\|190}}
	==Summary==		==Summary==
−	This fragment of a letter, dated [[July 3]], [[1956]], was written to [[Rayner Unwin]]. Tolkien had been sent a list of [[Translated ~~Names~~\|translations]] to the nomenclature for the first translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', into Dutch by [[Max Schuchart]]. Tolkien writes that he objects to translations of personal nomenclature; [[the Shire]] is based on (or, as he calls it himself, "a parody of") rural England; plus, the toponymy of the Shire is wholly different from that of the Netherlands.	+	This fragment of a letter, dated [[July 3]], [[1956]], was written to [[Rayner Unwin]]. Tolkien had been sent a list of [[Translated names\|translations]] to the nomenclature for the first translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', into Dutch by [[Max Schuchart]]. Tolkien writes that he objects to translations of personal nomenclature; [[the Shire]] is based on (or, as he calls it himself, "a parody of") rural England; plus, the toponymy of the Shire is wholly different from that of the Netherlands.

	Concerning the map "''A Part of the Shire''", Tolkien thinks translating it to "''Een deel von 'The Shire<nowiki>'</nowiki>''" sufficient. By not translating the [[Appendices]], the Translator (this word is capitalized throughout the letter) got himself into problems; Anglo-Saxon is not like Dutch, as Schuchart had translated, it is related to English.		Concerning the map "''A Part of the Shire''", Tolkien thinks translating it to "''Een deel von 'The Shire<nowiki>'</nowiki>''" sufficient. By not translating the [[Appendices]], the Translator (this word is capitalized throughout the letter) got himself into problems; Anglo-Saxon is not like Dutch, as Schuchart had translated, it is related to English.

Ederchil: /* Notes */

2008-07-02T12:17:39Z

Notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:17, 2 July 2008
Line 12:		Line 12:
	==Notes==		==Notes==
	* Schuchart did translate the placenames.		* Schuchart did translate the placenames.
−	* ''Poupette à l'épingle'' means as much as "Puppet of a pin".	+	* ''Poupette à l'épingle'' means as much as "Puppet on a pin".
	* To show that translating Shirenames is not necessary, Tolkien translates several Dutch cities into English. There are two puzzling forms: ''Hedge'', a translation of ''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s Gravenhage'', instead of ''Count'shedge'' (this city is commonly known as The Hague), and ''Applethorn'', a literal translation of ''Apeldoorn'', where ''Appledores'' would be more correct.		* To show that translating Shirenames is not necessary, Tolkien translates several Dutch cities into English. There are two puzzling forms: ''Hedge'', a translation of ''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s Gravenhage'', instead of ''Count'shedge'' (this city is commonly known as The Hague), and ''Applethorn'', a literal translation of ''Apeldoorn'', where ''Appledores'' would be more correct.
	{{letters}}		{{letters}}

Ederchil at 12:17, 2 July 2008

2008-07-02T12:17:24Z

New page

{{letter|190}}
==Summary==
This fragment of a letter, dated [[July 3]], [[1956]], was written to [[Rayner Unwin]]. Tolkien had been sent a list of [[Translated Names|translations]] to the nomenclature for the first translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', into Dutch by [[Max Schuchart]]. Tolkien writes that he objects to translations of personal nomenclature; [[the Shire]] is based on (or, as he calls it himself, "a parody of") rural England; plus, the toponymy of the Shire is wholly different from that of the Netherlands.

Concerning the map "''A Part of the Shire''", Tolkien thinks translating it to "''Een deel von 'The Shire<nowiki>'</nowiki>''" sufficient. By not translating the [[Appendices]], the Translator (this word is capitalized throughout the letter) got himself into problems; Anglo-Saxon is not like Dutch, as Schuchart had translated, it is related to English.

Tolkien sent back a letter containing a detailed commentary, and suggests leaving the maps untranslated, and leave personal nomenclature alone as much as possible. He could provide a list of etymologies that could be included.

Tolkien's most important demand is that the word [[Hobbits|hobbit]] stays unaltered; no more "[[Åke Ohlmarks|Hompen]]".

He closes this letter with an apology to his rigidity, but translations into French of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrix_Potter Beatrix Potter] turned out not so well. For example, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_Mrs._Tiggy-Winkle Mrs. Tiggywinkle] became ''Poupette à l'épingle''.
==Notes==
* Schuchart did translate the placenames.
* ''Poupette à l'épingle'' means as much as "Puppet of a pin".
* To show that translating Shirenames is not necessary, Tolkien translates several Dutch cities into English. There are two puzzling forms: ''Hedge'', a translation of ''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s Gravenhage'', instead of *''Count'shedge'' (this city is commonly known as The Hague), and ''Applethorn'', a literal translation of ''Apeldoorn'', where *''Appledores'' would be more correct.
{{letters}}