Possible inconsistencies in the legendarium: Difference between revisions

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==Possession of the [[Nine Rings]]==
==Possession of the [[Nine Rings]]==
In ''[[The Council of Elrond]]'' [[Gandalf]] says that the [[Nazgûl]] kept their Rings.<ref>"The Nine the Nazgûl keep." {{HM|FR}}, [[The Council of Elrond]]</ref>. However in most other references, it is mentioned that Sauron had taken them.<ref>"the Nine [Sauron] has gathered to himself; the Seven also, or else they are destroyed." {{HM|FR}}, [[The Shadow of the Past]]</ref><ref>"You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine." {{HM|FR}}, [[The Mirror of Galadriel]]</ref>
In ''[[The Council of Elrond]]'' [[Gandalf]] says that the [[Nazgûl]] kept their Rings by saying "The Nine the Nazgûl keep"<ref>{{HM|FR}}, [[The Council of Elrond]]</ref>. However in most other references, it is mentioned that Sauron had taken them.<ref>"the Nine [Sauron] has gathered to himself; the Seven also, or else they are destroyed." {{HM|FR}}, [[The Shadow of the Past]]</ref><ref>"You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine." {{HM|FR}}, [[The Mirror of Galadriel]]</ref> Furthermore, Frodo doesn't see any Rings on them on [[Weathertop]], and it is believed that if they did wore the Rings, they would have given them full [[Unseen|invisibility]] (the cloaks would be useless).


The line in the Council of Elrond represents Tolkien's earlier intention that the Nazgûl should still be wearing their Rings, but he later changed his mind and simply missed revising that sentence.
The line in the Council of Elrond represents Tolkien's earlier intention that the Nazgûl should still be wearing their Rings, but he later changed his mind and simply missed revising that sentence.


;Explanation: Perhaps Gandalf was mistaken.  Also, as the Nazgûl are Sauron's slaves, their keeping the Rings may be equivalent to Sauron's owning them.
;Explanation: The phrase can be also interpreted as "The Nine keep the Nazgûl [in Sauron’s thralldom]"; or as the Nazgûl are Sauron's slaves, his owning the Rings may be equivalent to the Nazgûl keeping them.
:Additionally, perhaps Gandalf was mistaken.
 
==Moon phases==
==Moon phases==
Tolkien was particularly careful about the phases of the [[Moon]] in the ''LotR''. Yet some mistakes did elude him. See for example [[January 13]], [[January 16]], [[February 22]], [[September 22]].  
Tolkien was particularly careful about the phases of the [[Moon]] in the ''LotR''. Yet some mistakes did elude him. See for example [[January 13]], [[January 16]], [[February 22]], [[September 22]].  

Revision as of 06:28, 16 June 2009

J.R.R. Tolkien paid a great deal of attention and detail in his Secondary world to preserve a realistic consistency.

However Tolkien's work has been admired, studied and analyzed by "Tolkienists" over the years in various aspects and levels, and therefore some more or less obvious inconsistencies have been found to have slipped the author's attention. Most are revealed after more than one reading of the book and/or thorough study.

Fans of Tolkien usually accept that in any work there are usually plot holes. In a larger, far more detailed and realistic book we expect fewer (if any) plot holes, when in reality there is a far greater chance.

Still, at least some of the logical mistakes can be attributed to the characters themselves who said a contradicting phrase, since none of them is supposed to have the "omniscience" of the author.

Mouth of Sauron

Aragorn mentions that the name "Sauron" (meaning "Abominable") is the name used by his enemies, and Sauron himself does not permit it to be pronounced.[1] Therefore it would be problematic, if not logically impossible for a servant of Sauron to have a title or name that includes the word "Sauron".

Explanation
It could be that Aragorn was mistaken.

Doors of Durin

The name Moria means "Black Chasm" and was a derogatory description of the place which the Dwarves did not like much; it was given after the Durin's Bane took over the city and it was overrun by Orcs. It is therefore a paradox why that name appears on the Doors of Durin (Ennyn Durin Aran Moria), made in the Second Age, and with the consent of the Dwarves.

Explanation
Possibly Moria was an older name than believed; also it is possible that the Dwarves could not read Tengwar.
Another "external" explanation is that since the translated Norse names Durin and Narvi are seen in the inscription, Moria may also be a "translated" name.

Eagles

One of the best-known alleged plot holes is why the Eagles came to carry Frodo and Sam back from Mount Doom but did not help them to fly the One Ring there. While there are many counter explanations, it is a logical gap why this idea was not proposed in the Council of Elrond.

Explanation
See here for a more detailed discussion.

Gimli's Axe

Upon arrival in Edoras, Gimli mentions his axe has touched nothing but firewood since they left Moria. Yet he also claims he and Legolas killed several Orcs at Amon Hen. In the 50th anniversary edition, this was left unchanged; it would seem unlikely that Gimli would lament not killing any orcs for less than a week.

Distances

The distances of the Dwarves' travel to Rivendell in The Hobbit seem to have different proportions than those in The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien tried to reconcile the Hobbit description with the scale of the LotR map but couldn't find an appropriate solution.[2]

While Frodo and his companions needed 28 days from Hobbiton to Rivendell (10.7 miles/day)[3], Karen Wynn Fonstad calculated that Bilbo and Thorin and Company needed 38 days (17.5 miles/day)[3]. Andreas Moehn goes further and supposes that Thorin and Co. wanted two weeks from the Trollshaws till Rivendell (a distance which Glorfindel covered in two days), resulting in c. 48 days total.[4].

Explanation
The distances and days are not described in the narrative and can be measured only by references such as the moon phases and other fan calculations; therefore there can be a margin of miscalculation.
In general, perhaps the Dwarves are by nature slower travelers than the Hobbits.

Possession of the Nine Rings

In The Council of Elrond Gandalf says that the Nazgûl kept their Rings by saying "The Nine the Nazgûl keep"[5]. However in most other references, it is mentioned that Sauron had taken them.[6][7] Furthermore, Frodo doesn't see any Rings on them on Weathertop, and it is believed that if they did wore the Rings, they would have given them full invisibility (the cloaks would be useless).

The line in the Council of Elrond represents Tolkien's earlier intention that the Nazgûl should still be wearing their Rings, but he later changed his mind and simply missed revising that sentence.

Explanation
The phrase can be also interpreted as "The Nine keep the Nazgûl [in Sauron’s thralldom]"; or as the Nazgûl are Sauron's slaves, his owning the Rings may be equivalent to the Nazgûl keeping them.
Additionally, perhaps Gandalf was mistaken.

Moon phases

Tolkien was particularly careful about the phases of the Moon in the LotR. Yet some mistakes did elude him. See for example January 13, January 16, February 22, September 22.

In general, it is possible that Tolkien consulted a modern almanac to model the moon phases, and also possible that he confused the meanings of "New Moon": the astronomical (the moment when the moon is most dark) and the colloquial (appearance of the new crescent moon).[8]

Another mistake appears in The Hobbit: Bard I killed Smaug "at the rising of the moon"[9] when "above the eastern shore ... the waxing moon rose higher and higher"[10]. However according to astronomy[11] a waxing moon rises only in the morning, after the sun.

Explanation
The moon could have been setting in the west (not rising from the east), helping thus Bard kill Smaug.

Shadow over Eregion

While the Fellowship of the Ring traverses Hollin, they see and feel a flying shadow over them, implied to be a Fell Beast.[12] However later we learn that Sauron did not permit the Nazgûl to traverse west of the Anduin after their accident at Bruinen.

Explanation
Possibly it was a "lost" or "disobeying" Nazgûl who despite orders found himself prematurely west of the Anduin, or simply something wholly unexplained and unrelated to the Fell Beasts.

Ring of Thrór

The Ring of Thrór said to be given by Celebrimbor to Durin III before the Downfall of Eregion[13]. Actually Celebrimbor yielded the Seven to Sauron after torture[14] therefore it was Sauron who gave the Rings to the Dwarves.

Of the Rings of Power was a text published posthumously; therefore it is logical that it may lack proper revisions.

Explanation
Differences between Elven and (flawed) Dwarvish traditions.

Knowledge of the Palantír

After Gandalf learns that the crystal ball he has recovered is the palantír of Orthanc, he tells Pippin the White Council didn't know any of the palantíri (presumably those of Gondor) survived disaster in Gondor (presumably the Kin-strife).[15] However, after Denethor reveals his palantír, Gandalf claims to have known all along that the Stewards had it.[16]

Beater and Biter

The swords Glamdring and its "mate" Orcrist are found in a Troll hoard, said to belong to King Turgon of the First Age. They never appeared much in battle (Turgon fought only in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad) and they were witnessed only by the Orcs of Beleriand.

After the fall of Gondolin, the swords somehow were carried from the ruin of Beleriand to Eriador. It is however questionable how the Orcs of the Misty Mountains did recognize them by their names.

The Orcs don't seem to react similarly in the sight of Glamdring in LotR, nor do they seem to recognise Narsil/Anduril, which is much more "recent".

Explanation
There can be several theories and explanations of how the swords and their fames are transported to Eriador. The only problem is the narrative of the Silmarillion which doesn't justify their significance to the extent of being remembered and recognized by the Goblins of the Third Age, even by tradition.

Corrected mistakes

"...there is much else that may be told." — Glóin
This article or section is a stub. Please help Tolkien Gateway by expanding it.

Several mistakes were simply remnants of earlier concepts of Tolkien, which later escaped his attention when revising the book. Some of them were corrected in the 50th Anniversary Edition.

Bandobras' parentage

The Prologue mentions that Bandobras Took was the son (not grandson) of Isengrim Took II.

Sam's birth

In the second edition of LotR, Sam Gamgee's year of birth was added to The Tale of Years as Third Age 2963. This contradicts both a later entry in The Tale of Years and the Appendix C given as Third Age 2980.[17]

References

  1. J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers, "The Departure of Boromir"
  2. J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Return of the Shadow p. 204
  3. 3.0 3.1 Atlas of Middle-earth
  4. http://lalaith.vpsurf.de/Tolkien/Durin%27s_Day.html
  5. J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, The Council of Elrond
  6. "the Nine [Sauron] has gathered to himself; the Seven also, or else they are destroyed." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, The Shadow of the Past
  7. "You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, The Mirror of Galadriel
  8. http://shire-reckoning.com/moon.html
  9. J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, The Gathering of the Clouds
  10. J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, Fire and Water
  11. http://lalaith.vpsurf.de/Tolkien/Durin%27s_Day.html
  12. J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, The Ring Goes South
  13. J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Silmarillion, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age
  14. J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A
  15. "It was not known to us that any of the palantíri had escaped the ruin of Gondor." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers, The Palantír.
  16. "Though the Stewards deemed that it was a secret kept only by themselves, long have I known that here in the White Tower, as at Orthanc, one of the Seven Stones was preserved." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, The Return of the King, The Pyre of Denethor.
  17. The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion, page 716