Talk:Aman

Would it be nitpicking if we were to include Shadowfax and Gandalf among the few non-Elves to pass along the Straight Road?--Quidon88 03:14, 14 January 2007 (EST)

This article needs cleanup and expanding, so I don't think it would be wrong to make a list of elves and non-elves that returned to Aman. Just as a side note, it is not sure that Shadowfax ever went to Aman. The horse is not mentioned in the final chapter The Grey Havens, and Shadowfax was not a "ring-bearer". However, because he was a non-sentient being, it is possible that Gandalf took him on the ship. Speaking of which, is this mentioned in the Shadowfax article? I'll go look. --Narfil Palùrfalas 13:01, 14 January 2007 (EST)

I looked in The Tolkien Companion, and it said he sailed over the Sea with his master, but I can't find it in the Grey Havens. When I first saw your reply, I thought, "oh crap, was that some fanfic idea?", but I looked, and the Companion has never steered me wrong. Perhaps it says so in the Appendices?--Quidon88 15:35, 14 January 2007 (EST)

While it was never stated what happened to Shadowfax, JRRT does give his opinion on the matter in a letter to a fan:

"I think Shadowfax certainly went with Gandalf [across the Sea], though this is not stated...I should argue so: Shadowfax came of a special race (II 126, 129, III346) being as it were an Elvish equivalent of ordinary horses: his 'blood' came from 'West over Sea'. It would not be unfitting for him to 'go West'. Gandalf was not 'dying', or going by a special grace to the Western Land, before passing on 'beyond the circles of the world': he was going home, being plainly one of the 'immortals', an angelic emissary of the angelic governors (Valar) of the Earth. He would take or could take what he loved. Gandalf was last seen riding Shadowfax (III 276). He must have ridden to the Havens, and it is inconceivable that he would [have] ridden any beast but Shadowfax; so Shadowfax must have been there. A chronicler winding up a long tale, and for the moment moved principally by the sorrow of those left behind (himself among them!) might omit mention of the horse; but had the great horse also shared in the grief of sundering, he could hardly have been forgotten."

― The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, #268

That's enough evidence for me. --Hyarion 15:42, 14 January 2007 (EST)

All right, good. I was unaware of that quote, only having the Letters when I am able to borrow the collection from the library. I think we can note him as at least a probable, then. --Narfil Palùrfalas 15:54, 14 January 2007 (EST)

Debate on Immortality

Removed the following section: ==Immortality== There has been some debate whether the protagonists who sailed in the West became immortal or not. [[Robert Foster]] in his foreword to ''[[The Complete Guide to Middle-earth]]'' says that he did not provide death dates for those characters "for they still live". In reality, the Undying Lands were called like that because immortals dwelled in them, not because they granted immortality, something which becomes clear in the ''[[Akallabêth]]''. While I think we could live an OR in this case, the argument against Foster is weak: why does it become clear in the Akallabêth? It needs a rewrite. --Morgan 14:29, 24 March 2012 (UTC)