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Talk:Amandil (Lord of Andúnië)

Revision as of 21:24, 9 January 2011 by Mith (Talk | contribs)
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For my Eldar-And-Atani-Familytree I made some genealogy-researches in the last Númenórean generations and stumbled over some Problems: Known are these things:

- The livingdates of the kings of Númenór

- The fact, that Elendil, Tar-Miriel and Ar-Pharazon are born at about the same time (3017/18/19)

- In UT Numendil is called "Lord of Andunie in the days of Tar-Palantir"

- In UT is said, that in some genealogies Lindórie, Earendurs sister, is Gimilzagars wife - though Chr. Tolkien calls that impossible.

These facts do not fit together without problems. HERE I have drawn a genealogy with every date I could get: Name, dates of birth and death, age. Between the lines I put the length of the generation (countet from the birth of the father to the birth of the son). Then I filled the missing dates with average dates (all in red) and tried to get some sense out of it. But there are some problems:

- The average lifespan in the last three generations is about 220 - 230 years. Elendil is extraordinary old: 322. The problem is Amandil: He dissappeared in 3316, his son was born in 3119, due to the average generation-length he must have been born at about 3040. That makes him about 275 years old - about 50 years older than the kings of the last generations. Is there any hint that the Lords of Andúnie have had a longer life than the kings? Or do we have to ignore Elendils birthdate as incompatible?

- Numendil as Lord of Andúnie at Tar-Palantirs reign: With the longer life for the Lords no problem. But when the Lords have just the same lifespan as the kings, Numendil must have died (about 3170) before Palantir became king of Numenor (in 3175/7).

- Inzibêth: She is a generation older than her husband Gimilzor. But that is no real problem.

- Lindórie: This is the bigger problem, for she is two generations younger than her husband Gimilzagar. He must have been about 250 years at the birth of his daughter Inzilbêth. This is of course not impossible, but very extraordinary.

I hope for some wise brains here who will help to get a result without problems out of this. --Beren_fox 18:46, 2 March 2007 (EST)

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When you count the generations between Valandil of Andúnië and Eärendur on one side, and Anardil Tar Aldarion (younger than Valandil by 70 years) and Tar Falassion / Ar-Sakalthôr on the other, you'll notice that there are only 15 generation max. on the Andúnië side and 17 on the Kings of Númenor.

So, there is no question: at some point, the Lords of Andúnië used to live quite longer than the kings. Probably linked with the fact that kings became reluctant to relinquish their life voluntarily.


Now, I do have another question: where does the date of death of Númendil (SA 3065) come from? I can't find it so far, though I've been skimming through the Silm., UT, and all relevant HoME.

I guess it could be a deduction based on the year when Amandil became Lord of Andúnië, but I can't find such an info either.

Elendil

[edit] Dates

Reviving parts of the above discussion, does anyone know where the date S.A. 3065 comes from for the death of Númendil? Or, for that matter, "c. 3300" for the date of the stripping of the title from Amandil? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:24, 9 January 2011 (UTC)