Tolkien Gateway

Talk:Bilbo Baggins

Revision as of 21:19, 12 January 2013 by Morgan (Talk | contribs)
(diff) ← Older revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

Contents

[edit] Bilbo's resistance to corruption

Did Tolkien ever explain what about Bilbo was so special that he could resist the power of the Ring for so many years? --Ebakunin 13:40, 24 April 2006 (EDT)

Quite a few characters throughout LotR stated that hobbits in general are very resistant to the Dark Powers. In an early draft of the Fellowship, Boromir asks Frodo if maybe the power one yields while wearing the ring only reflects their own minds. This could explain why Isildur, Smeagol/Gollum, Bilbo, etc. disappear, hiding from their enemies, instead of imbuing them with superhuman strength. That conversation betweem Boromir and Frodo is The History of Middle Earth, the exact one escapes me, sorry.--Quidon88 14:20, 8 February 2007 (EST)

Frodo fell under the Ring's sway quicker primarily because (1) The power of Sauron had grown greater, (2) He came near to and entered the Land of the Dark Lord, and (3) He was mentally and physically exhausted. The Ring did not work so strongly on him or Bilbo during those years in Hobbiton. Bilbo received it in an honorable way (as opposed to Sméagol's murder), he kept it far from the reach of the Dark Lord, and he did not comprehend its power. I hope that explains it thoroughly enough. I believe I could find texts to back up these statements, if you wish. --Narfil Palùrfalas 17:45, 8 February 2007 (EST)
Among the physical stresses was the injury by the poisoned blade of the Witch-king (touching it made Glorfindel shudder) and the bite by Shelob along the way. That he managed to resist the lure of the ring until the very end is actually quite remarkable-- as stated above he was bearing the ring INSIDE Mordor within visible range of Sauron and his minions. Remember, part of Sauron existed within the ring and it had a 'life of its own'-- as such there was not much it could do within the Shire.-- Cheers. Glorfindel Mk. II 14:41, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] The forthcoming The Hobbit Motion Picture

Perhaps it would be clever to try and improve this article, now that PJ's plans for the films are moving forth quickly and people in general will be more and more curious about Bilbo. How about making it into an improvement drive article? --Morgan 20:04, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Main image

I really liked that we changed the main pic of Glaurung to Tolkien's own vision of the dragon. Perhaps we should do the same with the Bilbo article? It's a little sad, tough, that his illustrations of Bilbo weren't that good, at least not in my opinion. What do you think? I'll upload two suggestions, so we can try ("Show preview"). In any case, I think we shouldn't use Ian Holm as the main picture of the article. --Morgan 20:04, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the main picture should first be something Tolkien drew himself, then something drawn by an artist and lastly a representation from an adaptation. --Pinkkeith 20:08, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Here is what I did: User:Morgan/Sandbox3, to make everyone easily see my suggestion (although we might be able to find pictures of better quality than the ones I was able to track). --Morgan 20:23, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
To be honest, I think it's a bit plain. Could we use the colourised version instead? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:31, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Gandalf and Radagast Section

I'm not sure what the story of Gandalf and Radagast's meeting has to do with Bilbo Baggins? Could this 4 April 2011 addition be explained?

Gamling 04:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Gamling, you can just remove such strange additions at sight (press "undo revision"). --Morgan 07:53, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Final Journey

Bilbo and Frodo did not go to Valinor did they? As mortals they where not permitted to enter the undying lands, it is my understanding that they went instead to Tol Eressëa 2.102.41.133 20:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

We should probably change it to "the West" (as in The Lord of the Rings). The problem is only where to redirect the West - to Uttermost West, Undying Lands, or Aman? It would be speculation to say that Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam went to Tol Eressëa. Are there any other sources where Tolkien discusses the ring-bearers' destiny? --Morgan 23:24, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
I agree with our friend 2.102.41.133. In a footnote to Letter 297 it says:
At the time of her [Galadriel's] lament in Lórien she believed this to be perennial, as long as Earth endured. Hence she concludes her lament with a wish or prayer that Frodo may as a special grace be granted a purgatorial (but not penal) sojourn in Eressea, the Solitary Isle in sight of Aman, though for her the way is closed. (The Land of Aman after the downfall of Númenor, was no longer in physical existence 'within the circles of the world'.) Her prayer was granted – but also her personal ban was lifted, in reward for her services against Sauron, and above all for her rejection of the temptation to take the Ring when offered to her. So at the end we see her taking ship.
J.R.R. Tolkien; Humphrey Carpenter, Christopher Tolkien (eds.), The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 297, (dated August 1967), p. 386
This is the most explicit reference I can find to backup the argument that Frodo and co. went to Tol Erresëa and not Valinor. Elsewhere Tolkien writes that Frodo and other mortals went to Aman, which he uses as a term for both Valinor and Tol Erresëa (See J.R.R. Tolkien; Humphrey Carpenter, Christopher Tolkien (eds.), The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 325, (dated 17 July 1971), p. 411).-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  18:56, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Here is a good answer. I'd say that the matter of the ringbearers' destiny became more of a philosophical than geographical question for Tolkien. The only safe answer we can give is probably that the ringbearers went to "the West", to Aman. Then we could probably add something like "There are indications that the Ringbearers perhaps only went to Eresseä".--Morgan 19:36, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps like this:
  • Main text: the West (Canon - published version)
  • Footnote: Two theories: (1) "Nai hiruvalye Valimar" (from Namarie; interpretation of canon text), indicating that the ring-bearers went to Valimar. (2) Eressëa (interpretation of semi-canonical texts; draft letter+unpublished essay)

--Morgan 19:49, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

[edit] Code problem

Why doesn't the note appear?--Morgan 18:04, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

I notice that all notes (<ref group=note>) fall under "Family Tree Notes". Does anyone know how to tweak the code so this doesn't happen?--Morgan 18:23, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
The reason why all "notes" fall under "Family Tree Notes" is because <references group="note"/> was added to the template. This makes references of the group "note" automaticly appear under the family tree. It can be solved by:
  1. Change the ref group of the family tree notes to something else. For example: "Note" (with a capital letter), "footnote", "family tree note", etc.
  2. Remove <references group="note"/> from the template and manually add {{references|note}} to each article.
For the time being I have fixed it by changing the ref group of the family tree notes to "Note". --Amroth 21:00, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, Amroth.--Morgan 21:19, 12 January 2013 (UTC)