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Talk:Boromir

(Difference between revisions)
(Etymology)
m (Added signatures; splitting up other people's messages can get very confusing and should be advised against. If you're making multiple points, number them with # so people can reply by number.)
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*Here are two relevant [[Elfling]] messages, which hopefully shed some additional light on the etymology of ''Boromir'':
 
*Here are two relevant [[Elfling]] messages, which hopefully shed some additional light on the etymology of ''Boromir'':
 
**[[Didier Willis]]: [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling/message/16203 16203]
 
**[[Didier Willis]]: [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling/message/16203 16203]
**[[Beregond, Anders Stenström]]: [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling/message/16358 16358]
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**[[Beregond, Anders Stenström]]: [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling/message/16358 16358] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
*According to these Elfling messages, I would say that we shouldn't be so sure on connecting the ''boromir'' of LotR to the ''boromir'' of the ''Etymologies''. If, as Beregond says, the Boromir intended in the ''Etymologies'' refers to Boromir the faithful Easterling ([[Borlach]]), we should perhaps be more wary about presenting the meaning given in the ''Etymologies''.  
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*According to these Elfling messages, I would say that we shouldn't be so sure on connecting the ''boromir'' of LotR to the ''boromir'' of the ''Etymologies''. If, as Beregond says, the Boromir intended in the ''Etymologies'' refers to Boromir the faithful Easterling ([[Borlach]]), we should perhaps be more wary about presenting the meaning given in the ''Etymologies''. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
**I didn't present a definite connection. Τhe Etymologies is a significant part of the linguistics, which largely still remains canon. A mention to an Etymologies-etymology would be desirable, even if it contradicts the latter-retconned legendarium. I included the reference for the sake of completeness and to display a possible discrepancy. If that was not clear enough, it should be reworded [[User:Sage|Sage]] 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
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**I didn't present a definite connection. Τhe Etymologies is a significant part of the linguistics, which largely still remains canon. A mention to an Etymologies-etymology would be desirable, even if it contradicts the latter-retconned legendarium. I included the reference for the sake of completeness and to display a possible discrepancy. If that was not clear enough, it should be reworded --[[User:Sage|Sage]] 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
*Root BOR(ON): I removed the (ON) part. As the form BOR(ON) doesn't appear in the ''Etymologies'', we would need a reference, or statement of the reason (perhaps in a footnote), for your suggested version of the form.
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*Root BOR(ON): I removed the (ON) part. As the form BOR(ON) doesn't appear in the ''Etymologies'', we would need a reference, or statement of the reason (perhaps in a footnote), for your suggested version of the form. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
**Actually it is BOR-ÓN-, the entry right below BOR-, which is an extended (verbal?) form of BOR [[User:Sage|Sage]] 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
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**Actually it is BOR-ÓN-, the entry right below BOR-, which is an extended (verbal?) form of BOR --[[User:Sage|Sage]] 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
*Does an explanation of ''Boromir'' occur in PE 17? This would be a good source, and I quickly read through it, sadly without finding anything. For some reason, the publication doesn't have any index, so I might have missed some occurence, though.
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*Does an explanation of ''Boromir'' occur in PE 17? This would be a good source, and I quickly read through it, sadly without finding anything. For some reason, the publication doesn't have any index, so I might have missed some occurence, though. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
**Can't help here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
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**Can't help here. --[[User:Sage|Sage]] 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
*Noting suggestion in {{HM|RC}}, p. 224: "Sindarin ''boro(n)'' 'steadfast' + Quenya ''míre'' 'jewel'."
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*Noting suggestion in {{HM|RC}}, p. 224: "Sindarin ''boro(n)'' 'steadfast' + Quenya ''míre'' 'jewel'." --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
**I find míre inadequate to explain the mixed-ness of the name. míre is not that much different from mîr so as to make a Quenya influence worth mentioning. I like to think that the 'pure Sindarin' form would be *Brovír and the Quenya influence was to retain the first o and perhaps escape the lenition of m. But then, what about Boromir of Ladros? Did the Edain of the First House also use hybrid names? Or was it Mithrim? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
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**I find míre inadequate to explain the mixed-ness of the name. míre is not that much different from mîr so as to make a Quenya influence worth mentioning. I like to think that the 'pure Sindarin' form would be *Brovír and the Quenya influence was to retain the first o and perhaps escape the lenition of m. But then, what about Boromir of Ladros? Did the Edain of the First House also use hybrid names? Or was it Mithrim? --[[User:Sage|Sage]] 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Revision as of 22:36, 8 January 2011

Do we have an image of Sean Bean as Boromir? --Ted C 15:41, 25 October 2006 (CDT)


I vote for a move to Boromir. It's a lot simpler than what we've been using. --Narfil Palùrfalas 11:33, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Etymology

Nice work on including an etymology for Boromir, Sage! I do have some concerns, though, which I hope we can sort out.--Morgan 01:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

  • Here are two relevant Elfling messages, which hopefully shed some additional light on the etymology of Boromir:
  • According to these Elfling messages, I would say that we shouldn't be so sure on connecting the boromir of LotR to the boromir of the Etymologies. If, as Beregond says, the Boromir intended in the Etymologies refers to Boromir the faithful Easterling (Borlach), we should perhaps be more wary about presenting the meaning given in the Etymologies. --Morgan 01:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
    • I didn't present a definite connection. Τhe Etymologies is a significant part of the linguistics, which largely still remains canon. A mention to an Etymologies-etymology would be desirable, even if it contradicts the latter-retconned legendarium. I included the reference for the sake of completeness and to display a possible discrepancy. If that was not clear enough, it should be reworded --Sage 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Root BOR(ON): I removed the (ON) part. As the form BOR(ON) doesn't appear in the Etymologies, we would need a reference, or statement of the reason (perhaps in a footnote), for your suggested version of the form. --Morgan 01:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
    • Actually it is BOR-ÓN-, the entry right below BOR-, which is an extended (verbal?) form of BOR --Sage 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Does an explanation of Boromir occur in PE 17? This would be a good source, and I quickly read through it, sadly without finding anything. For some reason, the publication doesn't have any index, so I might have missed some occurence, though. --Morgan 01:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
    • Can't help here. --Sage 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Noting suggestion in Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull (eds), The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion, p. 224: "Sindarin boro(n) 'steadfast' + Quenya míre 'jewel'." --Morgan 01:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
    • I find míre inadequate to explain the mixed-ness of the name. míre is not that much different from mîr so as to make a Quenya influence worth mentioning. I like to think that the 'pure Sindarin' form would be *Brovír and the Quenya influence was to retain the first o and perhaps escape the lenition of m. But then, what about Boromir of Ladros? Did the Edain of the First House also use hybrid names? Or was it Mithrim? --Sage 22:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)