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Revision as of 05:40, 3 October 2015 by (Talk)


I don't own it myself, but I know where the "third cycle" stuff is found: Vinyar Tengwar 41. Other than that, there is the quote from "The Grey Havens":

"As the came to the gates Círdan the Shipwright came to greet them. Very tall his was, and his beard was long, and he was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and he said: 'All is now ready.' "

That's all I've got, I'm afraid. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:12, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, well assuming our article is accurate it contains "Etymological Notes on the Ósanwe-kenta", "From The Shibboleth of Fëanor" and "Notes on Óre" by Tolkien. I just read the Shibboleth of Feanor so I know there's nothing about Cirdan there. I'll see if the other two were published in HoME as well. —Aulë the Smith (Tk·Cb) 12:00, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Reading around the web I'm pretty sure it's in the Ósanwe-kenta section, but that hasn't been published anywhere but VT. If someone with that issue could verify the discussion about 'third cycles' and beards and then add a reference that would be great. —Aulë the Smith (Tk·Cb) 12:07, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
The Osanwe section of VT41 is two pages words Etymologies-style. Scouring through the issue now. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:31, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
"Notes on Óre" does briefly mention the aging of Elves and Men, but does not mention a Third Cycle or Círdan. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:47, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps it's in the main body of the Ósanwe-kenta - issue 39 I think. —Aulë the Smith (Tk·Cb) 13:16, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
See this (second post down). All online discussions I've seen say it is in VT 41. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 13:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
The Reader Companion in the chapter The Grey Havens quotes a part of VT41 with says that Círdan was in the third circle. I read that part while coming back from vacation. I'll search out the exact page tomorrow. --Amroth
Acording to the Reader Companion its on p. 9 of Vinyar Tengwar 41.
Checked page 9, it's not there. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 09:14, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm a little confused about what you all are confused about, but here is my suggestion for a different "beard" paragraph:

The eldest known Elf to remain on Middle-earth, Círdan appeared very old save for his eyes, with a consistent long silver beard.<ref>{{RK|Havens}}</ref> Likely, he had grown a beard since having reached his [[Elven Life cycle#"Cycles of life" and aging|third cycle of life]].<ref>{{VT|41b}}, p. 9</ref>

I would skip the last paragraph ("His apparent ageing may come from the many pains and troubles he has seen on Middle-earth"), since this seems to me to be mere speculation. --Morgan 12:51, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
"Elves did not have beards until they entered the third cycle of life. Nerdanel's father was exceptional, being only early in the second."
- Vinyar Tengwar 41 p. 9 (reproduced in The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion p. 674).
Ignore my earlier remark, it's there, at the bottom of page 9. Full quote: "Elves did not have beards until they entered the third cycle of life. Nerdanel's father [cf. XII:365-66 n.61] was exceptional, being only early in the second." --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:55, 5 September 2010 (UTC)


I have calculated his age as being between 11,363 and 10,405 years at the end of LotR. Should such information perhaps be included? Otherwise, it could only remain in this Talk section. 05:40, 3 October 2015 (UTC)