http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Carnil&feed=atom&action=historyTalk:Carnil - Revision history2013-06-19T23:37:40ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.17.0http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Carnil&diff=89092&oldid=prevMith: Carnil is definitely Mars2009-12-27T21:27:01Z<p>Carnil is definitely Mars</p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div>::I've looked it up, and have seen it mentioned a few time. Perhaps it can be added to the article worded as "Some speculate that..." or something similar. [[User:Grond|Grond]] 21:22, 27 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div>::I've looked it up, and have seen it mentioned a few time. Perhaps it can be added to the article worded as "Some speculate that..." or something similar. [[User:Grond|Grond]] 21:22, 27 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="background: #cfc; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div><ins style="color: red; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::[[Christopher Tolkien]] explicitly identified Carnil (or Karnil as it originally was) with Mars. The Index in ''[[Morgoth's Ring]]'' says (in my paperback edition), "Karnil ''The planet Mars. 160, 166; ''Carnil'' 166. See pp. 434-5.''" In the note on pages 434-5 it says how [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] wrote an "M." above Karnil, identifying it with Mars and a couple of paragraphs below this Christopher says the following things:-</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="background: #cfc; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div><ins style="color: red; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::"''...'''a great red star named ''Karnil'' and marked with 'M' must be Mars''' (cf. Michael Ramer's name ''Karan'' for Mars, IX220)''" then, "''That Mars and Jupiter, if not Saturn, should appear among them ''[that is the conspicuous objects of the heavens of Arda]'' would seem inevitable, seeing that in my father's astronomical myth the planets were never distinguished from the 'fixed stars' ''" and finally, and most crucially, "'''''Karnil was surely always Mars'''''".</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="background: #cfc; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div><ins style="color: red; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::In my mind there is absolutely no doubt as to what Carnil is. A good online source for astronomy would be [http://www.physics.ccsu.edu/larsen/astronomy_of_middle.htm the Astronomy of Middle-earth] by [[Kristine Larsen]] who has written a few articles on Middle-earth astronomy is somewhat of an expert on the issue. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:27, 27 December 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Mithhttp://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Carnil&diff=89091&oldid=prevGrond at 21:22, 27 December 20092009-12-27T21:22:02Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div>:I believe it is mentioned somewhere, but if it's going in the article, it's going to need a source. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:16, 27 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div>:I believe it is mentioned somewhere, but if it's going in the article, it's going to need a source. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:16, 27 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="background: #cfc; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div><ins style="color: red; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::I've looked it up, and have seen it mentioned a few time. Perhaps it can be added to the article worded as "Some speculate that..." or something similar. [[User:Grond|Grond]] 21:22, 27 December 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Grondhttp://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Carnil&diff=89057&oldid=prevEderchil at 19:16, 27 December 20092009-12-27T19:16:24Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div>I doubt that it's Mars. [[User:Grond|Grond]] 18:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div>I doubt that it's Mars. [[User:Grond|Grond]] 18:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="background: #cfc; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div><ins style="color: red; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:I believe it is mentioned somewhere, but if it's going in the article, it's going to need a source. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:16, 27 December 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Ederchilhttp://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Carnil&diff=89043&oldid=prevGrond: New page: I doubt that it's Mars. ~~~~2009-12-27T18:42:58Z<p>New page: I doubt that it's Mars. ~~~~</p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>I doubt that it's Mars. [[User:Grond|Grond]] 18:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)</div>Grond