https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gondorian_Military_Forces&feed=atom&action=historyTalk:Gondorian Military Forces - Revision history2024-03-28T17:29:48ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.39.3https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gondorian_Military_Forces&diff=329942&oldid=prevTolkienator: Needs to be addressed2021-04-01T16:21:55Z<p>Needs to be addressed</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::Yes I am. Now that Nationstates2 game has collapsed, I have much more time.--{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 19:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::Yes I am. Now that Nationstates2 game has collapsed, I have much more time.--{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 19:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">This page is completely irrelevant on its own as it does not stand by itself as canon or part of the legendarium and there are various speculative sections. It would do more justice if the canon sections were moved into a section on the page for gondor described as "Military". It could even be moved to the Gondorians page with a similar title.--[[User:Tolkienator|Tolkienator]] 16:21, 1 April 2021 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
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</table>Tolkienatorhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gondorian_Military_Forces&diff=123877&oldid=prevAule the Smith: /* Cleanup */2010-09-01T11:55:45Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Cleanup</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:I definitely agree with you that this article needs a better name; and I agree about the problem. What might be better is a "Military History of Gondor", and then the - relatively small - information we have on the Gondorian troops can form a small section amongst the chronology (the Navy section could be saved for this purpose). The problem, though, is that that could overlap too much with the [[Gondor#History|History of Gondor]] itself... --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:I definitely agree with you that this article needs a better name; and I agree about the problem. What might be better is a "Military History of Gondor", and then the - relatively small - information we have on the Gondorian troops can form a small section amongst the chronology (the Navy section could be saved for this purpose). The problem, though, is that that could overlap too much with the [[Gondor#History|History of Gondor]] itself... --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::Yes you are probably right. The canonical information could perhaps simply be moved to a "Military" section in [[Gondor]]. It would be nice to find a place for Theoden's write-up of ''Weapons and Warfare'' though, either by renaming this article to reflect its non-canonicity or incorporating it into the article for the book. {{User:Aule the Smith/sig}} 11:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Aule the Smithhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gondorian_Military_Forces&diff=123876&oldid=prevMith: /* Cleanup */ I knew there was another one - just couldn't remember the name2010-09-01T11:52:32Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Cleanup: </span> I knew there was another one - just couldn't remember the name</span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:# '''Canonicity''': Not only is there far too much ''Weapons and Warfare'', but there seems to be information here which is beyond even that. [[Gondorian Military Forces#The Third Age|The Third Age section]], for example. Anything in this article which is non-canonical should be removed ''ipso facto'' - once the article is built then go for Portrayal in Adaptations to see how it stacks up in comparison.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:# '''Canonicity''': Not only is there far too much ''Weapons and Warfare'', but there seems to be information here which is beyond even that. [[Gondorian Military Forces#The Third Age|The Third Age section]], for example. Anything in this article which is non-canonical should be removed ''ipso facto'' - once the article is built then go for Portrayal in Adaptations to see how it stacks up in comparison.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:# '''Anachronisms''': You're absolutely right: why call the Rangers "[[Gondorian Military Forces#Gondorian Special Forces|Special Forces]]" when you can call them "Rangers"? We know that the most efficient cavalry in Middle-earth, the Rohirrim, had a pretty rudimentary organisational structure, the same is probably true of Gondor: we should not be trying to cover that ''fact'' up.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:# '''Anachronisms''': You're absolutely right: why call the Rangers "[[Gondorian Military Forces#Gondorian Special Forces|Special Forces]]" when you can call them "Rangers"? We know that the most efficient cavalry in Middle-earth, the Rohirrim, had a pretty rudimentary organisational structure, the same is probably true of Gondor: we should not be trying to cover that ''fact'' up.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:# '''Sources''': What actually troubles me is canonical stuff which exists but isn't sourced or eben mentioned. For instance, I would've expected to see <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">a mention </del>of ''[[Thangail]]'', and I certainly would've expected to see descriptions of the uniforms (as on [[Twelve Houses of the Gondolindrim]], cf [[House of the Mole]]).</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:# '''Sources''': What actually troubles me is canonical stuff which exists but isn't sourced or eben mentioned. For instance, I would've expected to see <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">mentions </ins>of ''[[Thangail<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">]]'' and ''[[Dírnaith</ins>]]'', and I certainly would've expected to see descriptions of the uniforms (as on [[Twelve Houses of the Gondolindrim]], cf [[House of the Mole]]).</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:I definitely agree with you that this article needs a better name; and I agree about the problem. What might be better is a "Military History of Gondor", and then the - relatively small - information we have on the Gondorian troops can form a small section amongst the chronology (the Navy section could be saved for this purpose). The problem, though, is that that could overlap too much with the [[Gondor#History|History of Gondor]] itself... --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:I definitely agree with you that this article needs a better name; and I agree about the problem. What might be better is a "Military History of Gondor", and then the - relatively small - information we have on the Gondorian troops can form a small section amongst the chronology (the Navy section could be saved for this purpose). The problem, though, is that that could overlap too much with the [[Gondor#History|History of Gondor]] itself... --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>Mithhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gondorian_Military_Forces&diff=123875&oldid=prevMith: /* Cleanup */ Big agreement2010-09-01T11:38:56Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Cleanup: </span> Big agreement</span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I think this article (retitled to something more appropriate like "Army of Gondor", see below) can just about be salvaged with some extensive clean up. There are as I see it three main issues:</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I think this article (retitled to something more appropriate like "Army of Gondor", see below) can just about be salvaged with some extensive clean up. There are as I see it three main issues:</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># '''Canonicity''' was not resolved in the above discussion. I think most would agree that ''[[Weapons and Warfare]]'' is not canon. That doesn't mean information from it shouldn't be included, of course, just that it should be separated and clearly marked as belonging to an adaptation.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># '''Canonicity''' was not resolved in the above discussion. I think most would agree that ''[[Weapons and Warfare]]'' is not canon. That doesn't mean information from it shouldn't be included, of course, just that it should be separated and clearly marked as belonging to an adaptation. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># '''Anachronisms''' - for lack of a better word, since we're talking about fiction not history. Either way the way this article attempts to describe Gondor's army in the same terms as modern "combined armed forces" is awkward and alien to the source material. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># '''Anachronisms''' - for lack of a better word, since we're talking about fiction not history. Either way the way this article attempts to describe Gondor's army in the same terms as modern "combined armed forces" is awkward and alien to the source material. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># '''Sources''', as usual.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># '''Sources''', as usual.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The problem I foresee is that the amount of material from ''Weapons and Warfare'' will far outweigh any canonical information that can be dug up from the books, so sticking all of it under the heading '''Portrayal in adaptations''' might not work. {{User:Aule the Smith/sig}} 11:02, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The problem I foresee is that the amount of material from ''Weapons and Warfare'' will far outweigh any canonical information that can be dug up from the books, so sticking all of it under the heading '''Portrayal in adaptations''' might not work. {{User:Aule the Smith/sig}} 11:02, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:I actually think this this is in such a state that the page should be completely blanked and editors should start again from scratch; to be honest, this article is not useful. On those three points:</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:# '''Canonicity''': Not only is there far too much ''Weapons and Warfare'', but there seems to be information here which is beyond even that. [[Gondorian Military Forces#The Third Age|The Third Age section]], for example. Anything in this article which is non-canonical should be removed ''ipso facto'' - once the article is built then go for Portrayal in Adaptations to see how it stacks up in comparison.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:# '''Anachronisms''': You're absolutely right: why call the Rangers "[[Gondorian Military Forces#Gondorian Special Forces|Special Forces]]" when you can call them "Rangers"? We know that the most efficient cavalry in Middle-earth, the Rohirrim, had a pretty rudimentary organisational structure, the same is probably true of Gondor: we should not be trying to cover that ''fact'' up.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:# '''Sources''': What actually troubles me is canonical stuff which exists but isn't sourced or eben mentioned. For instance, I would've expected to see a mention of ''[[Thangail]]'', and I certainly would've expected to see descriptions of the uniforms (as on [[Twelve Houses of the Gondolindrim]], cf [[House of the Mole]]).</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:I definitely agree with you that this article needs a better name; and I agree about the problem. What might be better is a "Military History of Gondor", and then the - relatively small - information we have on the Gondorian troops can form a small section amongst the chronology (the Navy section could be saved for this purpose). The problem, though, is that that could overlap too much with the [[Gondor#History|History of Gondor]] itself... --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Mithhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gondorian_Military_Forces&diff=123872&oldid=prevAule the Smith: /* Cleanup */ new section2010-09-01T11:02:22Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Cleanup: </span> new section</span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::Yes I am. Now that Nationstates2 game has collapsed, I have much more time.--{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 19:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::Yes I am. Now that Nationstates2 game has collapsed, I have much more time.--{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 19:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I think this article (retitled to something more appropriate like "Army of Gondor", see below) can just about be salvaged with some extensive clean up. There are as I see it three main issues:</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># '''Canonicity''' was not resolved in the above discussion. I think most would agree that ''[[Weapons and Warfare]]'' is not canon. That doesn't mean information from it shouldn't be included, of course, just that it should be separated and clearly marked as belonging to an adaptation.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># '''Anachronisms''' - for lack of a better word, since we're talking about fiction not history. Either way the way this article attempts to describe Gondor's army in the same terms as modern "combined armed forces" is awkward and alien to the source material. </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># '''Sources''', as usual.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The problem I foresee is that the amount of material from ''Weapons and Warfare'' will far outweigh any canonical information that can be dug up from the books, so sticking all of it under the heading '''Portrayal in adaptations''' might not work. {{User:Aule the Smith/sig}} 11:02, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Aule the Smithhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gondorian_Military_Forces&diff=87697&oldid=prevTheoden1: Return2009-12-02T19:15:29Z<p>Return</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::I wouldnt regard it as purism. And i wouldn't call works by other authors 'secondary sources' since the events they're supposedly reporting on are fictional- Tolkien's meta-fictional mythology about the Red Book and how it's all supposed to come from that is all well and good but in the real world he was the creator rather than a 'primary source' on events that happened independant of anything written about them. To be honest i dont know why i'm going into such depth about something that should be quite plainly obvious. Lets put it this way- how is WaW any different from fanfiction? In fact lets touch a nerve here and say Slash fanfiction. Both are extrepolations from the source material covering subjects otherwise scarcely (if at all) reported in the original work. Now within the reader's own mind they can construct whatever vision of the mythology they see fit and WaW or 'Legolas and Glorfindel get it on' are designed to stir the imagination in directions that appeal to different kinds of people, but even though war does have considerably more detail bestowed by Tolkien than sexual relations, as soon as you start to extrepolate, both as are uncanon as the next. And as an encyclopedia of Tolkien's work rather than derivative authors i think we should stick to what's written by him, and interpretations rather than inventions on his work. As a final point, you ask who has the time to look up these facts in their original sources, well i can tell you if you're doing this kind of work you have to find the time- there's no easy way out. As a bit of a pet project i actually went searching for every reference in Tolkien of the physical appearance of characters, objects and locations from the First Age and it was remarkably good fun! [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 21:36, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::I wouldnt regard it as purism. And i wouldn't call works by other authors 'secondary sources' since the events they're supposedly reporting on are fictional- Tolkien's meta-fictional mythology about the Red Book and how it's all supposed to come from that is all well and good but in the real world he was the creator rather than a 'primary source' on events that happened independant of anything written about them. To be honest i dont know why i'm going into such depth about something that should be quite plainly obvious. Lets put it this way- how is WaW any different from fanfiction? In fact lets touch a nerve here and say Slash fanfiction. Both are extrepolations from the source material covering subjects otherwise scarcely (if at all) reported in the original work. Now within the reader's own mind they can construct whatever vision of the mythology they see fit and WaW or 'Legolas and Glorfindel get it on' are designed to stir the imagination in directions that appeal to different kinds of people, but even though war does have considerably more detail bestowed by Tolkien than sexual relations, as soon as you start to extrepolate, both as are uncanon as the next. And as an encyclopedia of Tolkien's work rather than derivative authors i think we should stick to what's written by him, and interpretations rather than inventions on his work. As a final point, you ask who has the time to look up these facts in their original sources, well i can tell you if you're doing this kind of work you have to find the time- there's no easy way out. As a bit of a pet project i actually went searching for every reference in Tolkien of the physical appearance of characters, objects and locations from the First Age and it was remarkably good fun! [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 21:36, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Still taking a few ''WaW'' shots after all this time? --{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 17:40, 1 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:</ins>Still taking a few ''WaW'' shots after all this time? --{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 17:40, 1 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Hey, you're back! -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:41, 1 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:</ins>:Hey, you're back! -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:41, 1 <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">December 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::Yes I am. Now that Nationstates2 game has collapsed, I have much more time.--{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 19:15, 2 </ins>December 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>Theoden1https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gondorian_Military_Forces&diff=87651&oldid=prevEderchil: /* Canonicity */2009-12-01T19:41:52Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Canonicity</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Still taking a few ''WaW'' shots after all this time? --{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 17:40, 1 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Still taking a few ''WaW'' shots after all this time? --{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 17:40, 1 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
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</table>Ederchilhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gondorian_Military_Forces&diff=87650&oldid=prevTheoden1: WaW2009-12-01T17:40:34Z<p>WaW</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::It's purists? I think it's just embedded in my head from all those lost points on English essays from not citing the primary source when I could have :p. While I don't have the book myself, I'm sure it is a great source, [http://www.monstersandcritics.com/books/reviews/article_71.php/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_Weapons_and_Warfare_Review this review] cites some of the issues with trying to merge canon and non-canon material. However even if everything was 100% accurate we still shouldn't be citing it, we should be citing the original source. Just like someone writing an essay on Gondorian Military Forces shouldn't be citing Tolkien Gateway, they should be citing the original sources we compiled the information from, and they can't do that if we can't provide them. That being said, a secondary source is still better than no source. Citing everything is like perfect spelling, it won't happen but it's still a good idea to try. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:03, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::It's purists? I think it's just embedded in my head from all those lost points on English essays from not citing the primary source when I could have :p. While I don't have the book myself, I'm sure it is a great source, [http://www.monstersandcritics.com/books/reviews/article_71.php/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_Weapons_and_Warfare_Review this review] cites some of the issues with trying to merge canon and non-canon material. However even if everything was 100% accurate we still shouldn't be citing it, we should be citing the original source. Just like someone writing an essay on Gondorian Military Forces shouldn't be citing Tolkien Gateway, they should be citing the original sources we compiled the information from, and they can't do that if we can't provide them. That being said, a secondary source is still better than no source. Citing everything is like perfect spelling, it won't happen but it's still a good idea to try. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:03, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::I wouldnt regard it as purism. And i <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">wouldnt </del>call works by other authors 'secondary sources' since the events they're supposedly reporting on are fictional- Tolkien's meta-fictional mythology about the Red Book and how it's all supposed to come from that is all well and good but in the real world he was the creator rather than a 'primary source' on events that happened independant of anything written about them. To be honest i dont know why i'm going into such depth about something that should be quite plainly obvious. Lets put it this way- how is WaW any different from fanfiction? In fact lets touch a nerve here and say Slash fanfiction. Both are extrepolations from the source material covering subjects otherwise scarcely (if at all) reported in the original work. Now within the reader's own mind they can construct whatever vision of the mythology they see fit and WaW or 'Legolas and Glorfindel get it on' are designed to stir the imagination in directions that appeal to different kinds of people, but even though war does have considerably more detail bestowed by Tolkien than sexual relations, as soon as you start to extrepolate, both as are uncanon as the next. And as an encyclopedia of Tolkien's work rather than derivative authors i think we should stick to what's written by him, and interpretations rather than inventions on his work. As a final point, you ask who has the time to look up these facts in their original sources, well i can tell you if you're doing this kind of work you have to find the time- there's no easy way out. As a bit of a pet project i actually went searching for every reference in Tolkien of the physical appearance of characters, objects and locations from the First Age and it was remarkably good fun! [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 21:36, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::I wouldnt regard it as purism. And i <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">wouldn't </ins>call works by other authors 'secondary sources' since the events they're supposedly reporting on are fictional- Tolkien's meta-fictional mythology about the Red Book and how it's all supposed to come from that is all well and good but in the real world he was the creator rather than a 'primary source' on events that happened independant of anything written about them. To be honest i dont know why i'm going into such depth about something that should be quite plainly obvious. Lets put it this way- how is WaW any different from fanfiction? In fact lets touch a nerve here and say Slash fanfiction. Both are extrepolations from the source material covering subjects otherwise scarcely (if at all) reported in the original work. Now within the reader's own mind they can construct whatever vision of the mythology they see fit and WaW or 'Legolas and Glorfindel get it on' are designed to stir the imagination in directions that appeal to different kinds of people, but even though war does have considerably more detail bestowed by Tolkien than sexual relations, as soon as you start to extrepolate, both as are uncanon as the next. And as an encyclopedia of Tolkien's work rather than derivative authors i think we should stick to what's written by him, and interpretations rather than inventions on his work. As a final point, you ask who has the time to look up these facts in their original sources, well i can tell you if you're doing this kind of work you have to find the time- there's no easy way out. As a bit of a pet project i actually went searching for every reference in Tolkien of the physical appearance of characters, objects and locations from the First Age and it was remarkably good fun! [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 21:36, 28 August 2008 <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Still taking a few ''WaW'' shots after all this time? --{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 17:40, 1 December 2009 </ins>(UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>Theoden1https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gondorian_Military_Forces&diff=70218&oldid=prevDr Death at 21:36, 28 August 20082008-08-28T21:36:42Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::It's purists? I think it's just embedded in my head from all those lost points on English essays from not citing the primary source when I could have :p. While I don't have the book myself, I'm sure it is a great source, [http://www.monstersandcritics.com/books/reviews/article_71.php/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_Weapons_and_Warfare_Review this review] cites some of the issues with trying to merge canon and non-canon material. However even if everything was 100% accurate we still shouldn't be citing it, we should be citing the original source. Just like someone writing an essay on Gondorian Military Forces shouldn't be citing Tolkien Gateway, they should be citing the original sources we compiled the information from, and they can't do that if we can't provide them. That being said, a secondary source is still better than no source. Citing everything is like perfect spelling, it won't happen but it's still a good idea to try. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:03, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::It's purists? I think it's just embedded in my head from all those lost points on English essays from not citing the primary source when I could have :p. While I don't have the book myself, I'm sure it is a great source, [http://www.monstersandcritics.com/books/reviews/article_71.php/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_Weapons_and_Warfare_Review this review] cites some of the issues with trying to merge canon and non-canon material. However even if everything was 100% accurate we still shouldn't be citing it, we should be citing the original source. Just like someone writing an essay on Gondorian Military Forces shouldn't be citing Tolkien Gateway, they should be citing the original sources we compiled the information from, and they can't do that if we can't provide them. That being said, a secondary source is still better than no source. Citing everything is like perfect spelling, it won't happen but it's still a good idea to try. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:03, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::I wouldnt regard it as purism. And i wouldnt call works by other authors 'secondary sources' since the events they're supposedly reporting on are fictional- Tolkien's meta-fictional mythology about the Red Book and how it's all supposed to come from that is all well and good but in the real world he was the creator rather than a 'primary source' on events that happened independant of anything written about them. To be honest i dont know why i'm going into such depth about something that should be quite plainly obvious. Lets put it this way- how is WaW any different from fanfiction? In fact lets touch a nerve here and say Slash fanfiction. Both are extrepolations from the source material covering subjects otherwise scarcely (if at all) reported in the original work. Now within the reader's own mind they can construct whatever vision of the mythology they see fit and WaW or 'Legolas and Glorfindel get it on' are designed to stir the imagination in directions that appeal to different kinds of people, but even though war does have considerably more detail bestowed by Tolkien than sexual relations, as soon as you start to extrepolate, both as are uncanon as the next. And as an encyclopedia of Tolkien's work rather than derivative authors i think we should stick to what's written by him, and interpretations rather than inventions on his work. As a final point, you ask who has the time to look up these facts in their original sources, well i can tell you if you're doing this kind of work you have to find the time- there's no easy way out. As a bit of a pet project i actually went searching for every reference in Tolkien of the physical appearance of characters, objects and locations from the First Age and it was remarkably good fun! [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 21:36, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Dr Deathhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gondorian_Military_Forces&diff=70214&oldid=prevTheoden1: /* Canonicity */2008-08-28T19:26:40Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Canonicity</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Agreed, all the references need to be to the original source. It might be worthwhile to include a section in the [[The Lord of the Rings: Weapons and Warfare|book's article]] listing all of the statements which were made up so others don't make the same mistake. It's probably not worth our time to list all of the [[David Day]] [[fanon]]. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 18:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Agreed, all the references need to be to the original source. It might be worthwhile to include a section in the [[The Lord of the Rings: Weapons and Warfare|book's article]] listing all of the statements which were made up so others don't make the same mistake. It's probably not worth our time to list all of the [[David Day]] [[fanon]]. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 18:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::More purist opinion, I see. I consider LOTR:WaW to be a highly useful secondary source, and while it may dominate the section on weapons, it won't dominate the whole article. So keep your fur, guys. This is long way from fanon, and I'm sure author Chris Smith would be rightfully offended. A vast library and a vast amount of study would be required to come up with these few facts from primary sources-- anybody got that kind of time? --{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 18:29, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::More purist opinion, I see. I consider LOTR:WaW to be a highly useful secondary source, and while it may dominate the section on weapons, it won't dominate the whole article. So keep your fur <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">on</ins>, guys. This is long way from fanon, and I'm sure author Chris Smith would be rightfully offended. A vast library and a vast amount of study would be required to come up with these few facts from primary sources-- anybody got that kind of time? --{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 18:29, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::It's purists? I think it's just embedded in my head from all those lost points on English essays from not citing the primary source when I could have :p. While I don't have the book myself, I'm sure it is a great source, [http://www.monstersandcritics.com/books/reviews/article_71.php/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_Weapons_and_Warfare_Review this review] cites some of the issues with trying to merge canon and non-canon material. However even if everything was 100% accurate we still shouldn't be citing it, we should be citing the original source. Just like someone writing an essay on Gondorian Military Forces shouldn't be citing Tolkien Gateway, they should be citing the original sources we compiled the information from, and they can't do that if we can't provide them. That being said, a secondary source is still better than no source. Citing everything is like perfect spelling, it won't happen but it's still a good idea to try. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:03, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::It's purists? I think it's just embedded in my head from all those lost points on English essays from not citing the primary source when I could have :p. While I don't have the book myself, I'm sure it is a great source, [http://www.monstersandcritics.com/books/reviews/article_71.php/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_Weapons_and_Warfare_Review this review] cites some of the issues with trying to merge canon and non-canon material. However even if everything was 100% accurate we still shouldn't be citing it, we should be citing the original source. Just like someone writing an essay on Gondorian Military Forces shouldn't be citing Tolkien Gateway, they should be citing the original sources we compiled the information from, and they can't do that if we can't provide them. That being said, a secondary source is still better than no source. Citing everything is like perfect spelling, it won't happen but it's still a good idea to try. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:03, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>Theoden1