Talk:Mallorn

From Tolkien Gateway
Latest comment: 10 July 2023 by Cesinde in topic Change re. mallorn-trees in Valinor?

References[edit source]

This article needs more references than what I was able to provide. ~~ Þelma 06:46, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

Change re. mallorn-trees in Valinor?[edit source]

In Fellowship, Haldir says he hasn’t heard that there are mellyrn in the West:

“Alas for Lothlórien that I love! It would be a poor life in a land where no mallorn grew. But if there are mallorn-trees beyond the Great Sea, none have reported it.”

Is that worth mentioning? It seems to show a change in JRRT’s thinking. If the mallorn originally came from Valinor, you’d think Haldir would know it—why would Galadriel keep that a secret? Shoutingboy (talk) 06:40, 5 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"A Description of the Island of Númenor," probably written about 1960 and published in Unfinished Tales, makes it clear that mallorn do originate in Valinor.
All about that place, up the seaward slopes and far into the land, grew the evergreen and fragrant trees that they brought out of the West, and so throve there that the Eldar said that almost it was fair as a haven in Eressëa. They were the greatest delight of Númenor, and they were remembered in many songs long after they had perished for ever, for few ever flowered east of the Land of Gift: oiolairë and lairelossë, nessamelda, vardarianna, taniquelassë, and yavannamírë with its globed and scarlet fruits.... only here grew the mighty golden tree malinornë, reaching after five centuries a height scarce less than it achieved in Eressëa itself. Its bark was silver and smooth, and its boughs somewhat upswept after the manner of the beech; but it never grew save with a single trunk. Its leaves, like those of the beech but greater, were pale green above and beneath were silver, glistering in the sun; in the autumn they did not fall, but turned to pale gold. In the spring it bore golden blossom in clusters like a cherry, which bloomed on during the summer; and as soon as the flowers opened the leaves fell, so that through spring and summer a grove of malinorni was carpeted and roofed with gold, but its pillars were of grey silver.1 Its fruit was a nut with a silver shale; and some were given as a gift by Tar-Aldarion, the sixth King of Númenor, to King Gil-galad of Lindon. They did not take root in that land; but Gil-galad gave some to his kinswoman Galadriel, and under her power they grew and flourished in the guarded land of Lothlórien beside the River Anduin, until the High Elves at last left Middle-earth; but they did not reach the height or girth of the great groves of Númenor. Cesinde (talk) 06:56, 9 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not questioning that! I'm just saying, at the time Tolkien wrote FOTR, that text seems to indicate that he thought mellyrn were indigenous to Middle-earth, and he changed his mind later. So I thought that might be worth mentioning in the article. Shoutingboy (talk) 04:04, 10 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Was it Tolkien who thought that, or was it just one of his characters? I don't think the text is clear-cut. Cesinde (talk) 06:07, 10 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree that it's ambiguous! I'm just saying, Haldir had no idea whether there were mellyrn in the West. He might not have been close to Galadriel but he'd been there a long time, and given how important mellyrn were, you'd think she would have said at some point "I brought the first acorns here" vs. "they were here when I got here". From what he said, it sounds like JRRT's idea at the time was that they were native to Lothlorien. Shoutingboy (talk) 16:15, 10 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it. Cesinde (talk) 19:04, 10 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]