Tolkien Gateway

Talk:Moria

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:Source? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 23:13, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
 
:Source? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 23:13, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
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::Yes, I meant, is there any source that says that the name "Moria" was given to the mines after the appearance of the Balrog? The Silmarillion only says "in the days of its darkness", but this could mean also after the war in Eregion, when they shut the mines.

Revision as of 00:07, 23 February 2014

Rearrangement

I think much of this article could be merged with Khazad-dûm, and only the following essentials be left/mentioned here:

  • Start with "the main article is at Kh-D"
  • Intro
  • Use of the term (after Durin's Bane)
    • By Dwarves (did Khuzdul have a term for it? Balin's tomb calls it Kh-D, but Moria in Westron).
    • In "Westron" (same as above:to what degree did Westron speakers refer to it, rather than translations?
    • Appearance on the Doors of Durin: I've seen the following theories (doors pre-date name!)
      • Error by JRRT?
      • Emendation by Gandalf as he red up the text?
      • Emendation by Frodo, who did not know Khuzdul?
      • Emendation by some later Gondorian scribe (Findegil?) because the term Kh-D wasn't used in Gondor?
      • Very unlikely: someone changed the writing on the doors
  • mention the different translations:
    • Black Gulf (Return o/t shadow?)
    • Black Pit (?)
    • Black Chasm (Etym?)
  • Inspiration of the name: somewhere in the Letters, JRRT mentions Soria Moria Castle. Perhaps with a "History of the name", first mentioned in The Hobbit
  • a see also: Moria (computer game)

I'd love to do this myself, but I lack time at the moment. Maybe any of the Dwarf lovers here would like to do it? -- Ederchil 14:01, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed here and in other articles on Tolkien Gateway that Durin IV is given as the King of Khazad-Dum during the War of the Last Alliance. Is there citation in-canon for that? I've only ever seen approximate dates given for the reigns of Durin III and VI (of the Longbeard rulers who took the name Durin). Corsair Caruso 17:29, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
No. I think it's fanon. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:04, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
In that case, should explicit references to Durin IV as the King during the Last Alliance be removed from the respective articles?Corsair Caruso 14:06, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Yes. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 14:11, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Khazad-dûm renamed Moria

There seems to be a general agreement about the fact that the mines were only called Moria after the awakening of the Balrog, and that the script in the Doors of Durin that says "Moria" is thus an error. However, is there really any place where Tolkien says that the name Moria belongs only to the Third Age? I can't find anything that suggests so. Only this passage in The Silmarillion: "Greatest of all the mansions of the Dwarves was Khazad-dûm, the Dwarrowdelf, Hadhodrond in the Elvish tongue, that was afterwards in the days of its darkness called Moria." But this belongs to the chapter called "Of the Sindar" which is, I think, an editorial addition by C. Tolkien. Unsigned comment by 95.22.55.54 (talk • contribs).


Source? --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 23:13, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I meant, is there any source that says that the name "Moria" was given to the mines after the appearance of the Balrog? The Silmarillion only says "in the days of its darkness", but this could mean also after the war in Eregion, when they shut the mines.