Tolkien Gateway


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::Many thanks, Mith! It's the Esh (''ʃ'') - could you please add it to the insert box? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:43, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
::Many thanks, Mith! It's the Esh (''ʃ'') - could you please add it to the insert box? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:43, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
:::Added both.--{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:07, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Revision as of 10:07, 3 July 2011

The following external links no longer work:

The Origin of the Orcs (htm version) The Origin of the Orcs (doc version) The Origin of the Orcs (pdf version)

I got: The webpage cannot be found Unsigned comment by (talk • contribs).

I solved the problem by deleting it :). It was inappropriate anyway, and the whole article needs to be rewritten. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Which article? Sage 12:25, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Oh this article. Too much work to be done by 1.5 persons (= I am doing 0.4 of your work and the rest 0.1 belongs to occasional contributors) Sage 12:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I won't be doing much either. Just got an angry email that there was a deadline last week. So I got to focus on that first -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
That's my point... where can we find more contributors? :) Sage 17:55, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I edited the "Orcs and Goblins" section heavily to remove unfounded comments about "goblins" being a Hobbitish term when it is, in fact, an English word. I also cut down on some unfounded claims in the "Controversy" section. Eldorion

There needs to be a serious section in this article about the culture and ethics of Orcs, and whether Orcs are ultimately free to choose good or evil. I've seen other wikis touch on this issue, but this article barely does. A lot of people (myself included) have never been thrilled about the whole "evil race" concept played completely straight.
As an entirely personal belief (not something I would expect to put in the article), I think Orcs have the ability to live as good Avari, and that it's the established traditions of Orc culture that inspire evil, and that Elves who do evil and ill-inspired acts (such as Fëanor and his sons along with Eöl and Maeglin) essentially make themselves Orcs, and that the difference of appearance between Elves and Orcs ("fair" vs. "ugly") is ultimately meaningless. The Silmarils knew the difference, and they burned evil and corruption when it touched them. I'm not sure Tolkien would completely disagree, as he once said, "We were all Orcs in the Great War." But I digress... - Gilgamesh 12:12, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

I just (4/5/2011) summarized Letter 153 (a very long summary) for the Tolkien Gateway, wherein Tolkien dug very deeply into the metaphysics of Middle-earth. On the subject of Orcs, innate Free Will, their "evil race" status, and such, this letter probably gives Tolkien's "clearest" answers. -- Gamling 01:07, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


I just would like to ask an question in regards to the origin of the orcs. First off I have no preferance either way, be it men or elves, but I would like to raise the point of time. Men awoke at the rising of the sun, so wouldn't this then pose a problem for Melkor when he made the orcs in the first war in Beleriand, for the sake of the elves.? Unless he can time shift and or travel. So then we are left with a rather interesting situation, any thoughts? Unsigned comment by GaiusMarius (talk • contribs).

Sorry, you've lost me? Do you mean that as Melkor created orcs in opposition to elves he had no "opposite" to men? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 14:09, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Etymology and Names

JRRT notes the Nandorin word for orcs in PE17 (p. 54) ūriƒ. However, I'm uncertain about how to the render the last letter in the word - the original form of the letter is similar, but does not carry the small horizontal line. Is this a letter of its own, or merely a variant rendering of ƒ? --Morgan 01:24, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

There is the "long s" ſ (and the similar Esh ʃ). Do these seem likely? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 09:41, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Many thanks, Mith! It's the Esh (ʃ) - could you please add it to the insert box? --Morgan 09:43, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Added both.--Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:07, 3 July 2011 (UTC)