Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/3 April 2011/Transcript
KingAragorn> Right let's start. The first thing on the agenda is 'Should the Ithilien skin be set to default on all browsers?'
<Mith> I feel as if I can legitimately celebrate Easter (apparently very early) as it's basically a pagan thing
<KingAragorn> I should note that KingAragorn, Mith, Amorth, Ederchil, Eldarion and Hyarion are in attendance.
<Ederchil> Ithilien: yes, since the portals are specifically designed for it.
<Mith> They are?
<Mith> I thought we were checking both skins?
<Amroth> What are the pro's of Ithilien, except for the portals?
<Eldarion> what is the current default skin?
<KingAragorn> Since the Ithilien skin has been tweaked I think it's a lot better for the ordinary visitor to use than Cavendish
<Eldarion> ah cavendish
<Mith> Ithilien is the default for users, and for all browsers save IE
<KingAragorn> and IE is the most popular browser (still!)
<Eldarion> a shame^^
<Amroth> I've IE
<Mith> I'm not particularly keen on Ithilien (I think it's dark and old-fashioned) but I tihnk all the browsers should be the same.
<Mith> Amroth: http://www.getfirefox.com
<Amroth> my last pc had firefox, but I haven't yet downloaded Firefox
<Amroth> on my new laptop
<Eldarion> I think Ithilien has the right mood for Tolkien's works
<KingAragorn> Are there any more arguments for or against?
<Eldarion> Tolkien is a bit old-fashioned..
<Ederchil> can't think of any
<KingAragorn> We can use Ithilien on all skins whilst we develop a new one
<Eldarion> Mith, you wanted to develop a new skin, didn't you?
<Mith> Yeah, I've started sketching ideas.
<Eldarion> okay, who is in favour of setting ithilien as default on all browsers?
<Mith> (Although I've been working much more on the new main page. http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Main_Page/Development )
<KingAragorn> Let's vote, all those in favour say Aye, all those opposed say No.
<Eldarion> yes, i've seen that and really like it
<Ederchil> re: new main page - I like it, but the little globes are too small. Their significance is lost.
<Eldarion> yes, it's hard to make out what is earth and what is arda
<Eldarion> but they must fit in the boxes..
<KingAragorn> I don't see how that can be rectified
<KingAragorn> I thought they were pretty clear
<Mith> Should we delay chat of the Main Page till the end? I'm aware that we often get distracted along the way during a meeting and don't get through the agenda items?
<Ederchil> fine by me
<KingAragorn> Mith what's your vote?
<Mith> I'm abstaining
<KingAragorn> fair enough
<KingAragorn> Next on the agenda is 'Feature Article criteria again.' from Mith
<Mith> I shall make the changes to the skins right now.
<Eldarion> oh yeah..
<KingAragorn> I like Mith's criteria
<Amroth> same here
<Mith> (Skin default sorted.)
<Eldarion> i fully agree
<Mith> I like my criteria too
<KingAragorn> has anyone got anything they'd like to change from the list?
<KingAragorn> The question is do we adopt Mith's criteria? As many as are of that opinion say Aye. Of the contrary, No.
<KingAragorn> then it's unanimous
<KingAragorn> Next on the agenda is 'Should we have different game articles for different consules. Like wikipedia has with LOTR:T3A for the GBA and the consules.' from Amroth
<Ederchil> If they're really different, then yes.
<Mith> "The Ayes have it, the Ayes have it"
<Ederchil> Oh, sorry, "then Aye"
<Amroth> yes, I only meant with the really different games.
<Hyarion> back, catching up.
<KingAragorn> you all have to call me "Mr. Speaker"
<KingAragorn> hi Hyarion!
<Mith> I agree with Ederchil, the difference between the console and GBA versions is stark, as opposed to Xbox and PS2 versions which are negligible
<Amroth> this for example
<Amroth> Hi Hyarion
<KingAragorn> I would favour keeping it as a single article
<Eldarion> hey hyarion
<KingAragorn> any more points to make on this?
<Mith> Perhaps a single article might be better as we could get into a whole "What differences between consoles are big enough to justify a separate article?"
<Amroth> If games have a different sort of Genre, than I think we should have different articles for them.
<Mith> To be honest, I don't feel strongly enough either way. Abstain.
<Hyarion> single article until the article becomes too lengthy.
<KingAragorn> I can't see the articles being vastly different from each otehr
<Amroth> LOTR: The Third Age for example, the GBA is Turn-Based Strategy & Tactical Role-Playering. While the Consules are a RPG.
<KingAragorn> in cases where there is a huge difference then it might be worth it then
<KingAragorn> The question is should we different game articles for different consoles. As many as are of that opinion say Aye. Of the contrary, No
* Mith Abstains
<Ederchil> Aye but: only radically different GBA versions
<Eldarion> generally no, except in special cases
<KingAragorn> Aye, agreed with Ederchil
<KingAragorn> Hyarion, do you want to vote?
<Hyarion> Vote: No by default
<Hyarion> exception being special cases/radically different GBA versions, etc.
<KingAragorn> ok, so the Ayes have it but only on the conditions specified
<Hyarion> then make it an 'Aye' for me.
<KingAragorn> ok, the floor is open to backbenchers for a general discussion
<KingAragorn> back to the main page development?
<Mith> http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Main_Page/Development for those who need the link again
<Amroth> yes, however I've to go in a few minutes.
<Mith> I thought the globes were alright, too.
<Ederchil> Too small...
<Amroth> The Earth is a bit to small, Arda is alright
<Mith> Do you have a huge monitor
<Mith> Amroth: Earth and Arda are exactly the same size
<Amroth> I know
<Ederchil> and maybe too different. A two-tone Arda globe and a normal pic of Earth...
<Hyarion> I can live with the purple but the pink just doesn't seems to 'Tolkien' to me.
<Amroth> But for some reason, Arda is more regnizable.
<Ederchil> it's the clouds. Earth looks more like a blue-white smudge
<Eldarion> agree about the pink
<Ederchil> the Get Involved pink?
<Amroth> I've to go, good day you all.
<Mith> It's not really pink, is it?
<Hyarion> Ederchil, yes
<KingAragorn> bye Amroth
<Eldarion> bye amroth
<Ederchil> Bye Amroth
<Mith> Bye Amroth!
<Ederchil> *slaps head* not again...
<Mith> Surely it's more mauve
<Ederchil> It's pink.
|<-- Amroth has left irc.tolkiengateway.net (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
<KingAragorn> it's more on the purple side
<KingAragorn> what colour would you suggest to replace it?
<Mith> I'd call that mauve or lavender. The previous colour was pretty pink
<Eldarion> a darker blue?
<Ederchil> Maybe blue. I'm not sold on the different color-thing
<Hyarion> I'm wondering if we can use some colors that complement the colors found in the skin
<Mith> The problem is weighing up the various competing colour-interests of people which maintaining a degree of over-all harmony and being attracting to users.
<Hyarion> agreed, it is not easy
<Mith> We have to remember, the Main Page isn't for us, it's for Mr Joe Bloggs and Mrs Jane Doe who stumble across TG
<Ederchil> different colours =/= harmony in my book.
<Hyarion> I almost think just a grey gradient like on the left side pillars would allow the eyes to not be so distracted
<KingAragorn> I don't think we should make it suit any one skin
<Mith> And especially not dull ithilien
<Hyarion> what's dull about ithilien?
<Hyarion> I think we just haven't utilized it to its full potential
<Hyarion> the top image is made to be replaceable, so we can have different skins with the same overall feel
<Mith> Dark, dingy, unwelcoming.
<Mith> Old-fashioned in the use of columns
<Hyarion> top image referring to the blue-ish mountains
<Mith> My best friend works in webdesign and I showed it to him last week and he went on a 5-minute rant about how awful it was.
<Mith> It feels... cluttered
<Ederchil> Did he make any suggestions?
<Hyarion> it's easy to rant on any design, regardless of how good it is
<Mith> He said you want a sin which doesn't detract frmo the content, like this apparently does
<Mith> Lighter colours
<Hyarion> he hasn't seen Wikia has he?
<Mith> And he said absolutely get rid of the columns
<KingAragorn> all Wikia care about is money
<Mith> I don't think we should be comparing ourselves to Wikia
<Mith> This isn't about Wikia this is about getting people to edit!
<Mith> I have to say, the gargoyle in Ithilien has annoyed me for a long time
<Mith> It's in the way
<Ederchil> it draws way too much attention
<KingAragorn> yeah can we get rid of that?
<Hyarion> most sites seem so 2-dimensional, I think the gargoyles give the page a much needed depth
<Eldarion> yes, i agree
<KingAragorn> it create a hell of a lot of blank space
<Hyarion> I suppose on a really small monitor or mobile device the blank space might be a problem, but other than that it's pretty minimal
<Mith> Even on 1024 it gets in the way
<Eldarion> i'm happy to have this drawing-like skin next to all the text...
<Eldarion> it gives the page depth as hyarion said
<Hyarion> if we want simple, no point in trying to be simpler than Monobook
<Eldarion> but didn't we want to discuss the MainPage ? ;)
<Hyarion> although I'm not saying there is any harm in improving the design, designing new skins, etc. I just don't think Ithilien is bad :)
<Mith> Why it is even called Ithilien?
<Hyarion> I believe the top image is from Ted Nasmith's Ithilien piece
<Hyarion> I think the best attribute we can incorporate into a new skin is an inter-changable image that can alter the theme of the skin, like this one has at the top