Tolkien Gateway

Tolkien Gateway talk:Community Portal

(Difference between revisions)
(Tolkien's Inspirations?)
(Spam: Merry Christmas!)
(17 intermediate revisions by 11 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
I don't know where else to place this, so I do it here:
+
All previous discussions have been moved to the [[Forum:Council|Council forum]]. All future general Tolkien Gateway discussions should be had in said forum. This discussion page is specifically for topics relating to the [[Tolkien Gateway:Community Portal|Community Portal project page]].
  
The newest skin 'dusk' I find very nice, but I saw that the screen is far too small in width when I was working on [[J.R.R. Tolkien's Family Tree]]. So, making it a bit bigger might be a clever thing to do.
+
== Importance? ==
Moreover, on the [[Main Page]] there are references to links on the left (which is fine with the regular skins), whereas all the links in the dusk skin are on the right!
+
I think that this page should be re-added to the sidebar; however first it's content and layout should change. This page is meant to be a place which brings the community together and encourages editors to help out in different ways, so basically it should be a well-organised layout of links to important pages which are too many to list now. If people wish for this page to be 'revived' then it'd be happy to redesign it (based on the Main page layout for continuity) and change it's content.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 11:31, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
  
Have a look: [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/J.R.R._Tolkien%27s_Family_Tree&useskin=dusk Dusky Family Tree]
+
:I agree, {{User:KingAragorn/sig}}, and by the way, nice job with CP page. It should be moved to the sidebar and protected.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 18:44, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
  
--[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 10:38, 8 February 2006 (EST)
+
== Thoeden gives aid to gondor ==
  
:Hehe, ya that skin wasn't designed by me, I just uploaded it testing the different skins. Dusk really isn't made for a wiki our size and is meant for more of a blog style with small amounts of text. I really need to get a decent skinned created because this default one we are using is just too bland, I'd really love to see something that fully integrates with the Tolkien theme. Unfortunately my CSS/PHP/creativity skills are lacking so it's easier said than done. Unfortunately the skin is made to fit a fixed size thus expanding it would ruin the whole header image there, yet another aspect of that skin I dislike. The wiki skins definitely needs to be something that expands with the browser and resolution to provide maximum viewing for those larger monitors. But it is a good example of how powerful CSS/PHP can be with the wiki software and we can really twist this site into anything we want. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:26, 8 February 2006 (EST)
+
The Gondor city of Minas Tirith has a incoming attack from Mordor after a defeat at osgilith. The rohirrim have now rode of to the encampment at Dunharrow
 +
and next day they ride to war Who knows what happens but give hope to Rohans Gracious army {{unsigned|Brian}}
  
== Alphabetical Links ==
+
:Uhm. Right? What' your question? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:29, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
  
Is it possible to get a more encyclopedia-like listing under the heading 'the encyclopedia'? I mean, like what they print on the spine of the seperate volumes: Aa-Bl, Bk-Ce etc. In this case it would be: A El - Eld, Eld - Kin etc; this should be done automatically, of course, if possible. It's now such a long, bare list.
+
== Reductions of events in the film. ==
  
Also, I'd like to see the heading 'the author' back.
+
Hello, dear like-mindeds! I'm happy to be the member of "Tolkien Gateway". I have just joined in it. And I want to ask you: "Did you talk about this fact that in the film "The Lord of the Rings" many interesting events are reduced?". Frankly speaking, I want to see, for example, Tom Bombadil or Glorfindel in this film... Do you follow me? What is your opinion about it? Please, leave your comment! I'll be glad. {{unsigned|Victoria Angmarskaya}}
  
--[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 16:21, 14 February 2006 (EST)
+
You may find this article of some interest.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 15:04, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
  
:Thanks for the input. I agree with you that the bare small list that takes up so much room is not something that should stay for long. I like the idea of having Aa-Bl, etc, although it's not possible to do that dynamically so it would be something we'd have to change manually, but at least it would take up some space there. Another thought I had is something like A - Ardamir, Aragorn... Then B - Bag end, Bilbo.... And just list the first article or two next to the letter, similar to what [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ Encyclopedia of Arda] does. I definitely would like to see 'the author' (as well as all the old links) links back but I think for the moment we should work on improving those articles prior to linking them from the main page. This way people don't see those few links and assume that is our entire collection. Thanks again for the input. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:10, 14 February 2006 (EST)
+
== Spam ==
 +
Now the Community Portal has been spammed. {{unsigned|Gamling}}
  
== Wikipedia portal:Middle-earth ==
+
==Merry Christmas!==
 
+
Merry christmas, everybody! --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 10:26, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
Do you guys know this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Middle-earth portal]? It's meant to organize all Wikipedia articles on Tolkien. So, now's the existentialist question: what are we here for? Why are we here? Does this Wiki add anything to Wikipedia's portal?
+
 
+
--[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 08:58, 15 February 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
:Great question! I think in the near future as a community it would be nice if we could come up with sort of a mission statement about what we really do want to accomplish. I know in the back of my head I think [http://www.wikipedia.org Wikipedia] has done a great job, but they probably only have 1% of the content that is actually out there. Wikipedia being not [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] specific they simply cant have an entire article for every edition of every book published by Tolkien, or information about his relatives, and articles delving deeper into the mine...works of Tolkien. Look at [http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/ Wookipedia], almost 25,000 articles! [[Arda]] is ''much'' more complex and has been around ''a lot'' longer, we can't let the Star Wars nerds beat out us Tolkien fans. :) But as of the present we already have quite a lot more articles than Wikipedia's Tolkien section, albeit their's are being updated quicker I think we have our eyes farther out into the horizon. Do you have any suggestions for answers? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:00, 16 February 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
::I think the biggest task we're facing at the moment is to get more people involved in this; at this moment, only you and I are frequently adding to it (and I'm 'just' fixing dead links mostly). Have you considered mailing around a bit to get more attention to this Wiki? --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 03:02, 17 February 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
:::I've tried quite a few different things: searching google for "tolkien links" and going to hundreds of sites and emailing them manually to exchange links with us, unfortunately a lot of them were just dead ends. I've also tried posting links in forums but it's hard to not look like I am simply advertising the site. The linking that has helped the most has been at wikipedia ironically enough, because so many websites mirror the content from there, they mirror our links, search engines are also helping quite a bit. Hopefully word of mouth (or text of fingers?) will help as well as we gain more content. Another thought I had is seeing if any of the current Tolkien Encyclopedia websites would like to merge with us but I don't think we are to that point yet. We have had a few people in the past who edit quite a bit but unfortunately after a couple days they become burnt out and stop. Any suggestions? I think the best offer we can give people is to make sure they know this is not just one person's site as it is true for most websites out there, but the community's. As the popularity grows I would like to have a board of people who make the final decisions and the community would vote as a whole on topics, no one person would 'own' the site. Thanks again for your thoughts. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:26, 17 February 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
== Main Page: Search Page? ==
+
 
+
[[Hyarion]], maybe you could combine the current [[Main Page]] with the [http://tolkiengateway.net/search/ Search Page] you're suggesting? Cut (some of) the introductory notes and put in the Search bar.
+
 
+
Talking about the Search function: wouldn't it be better to have it a bit higher in the left side bar? Maybe between the 'Navigation' links and the alphabetical index? Now, people have to scroll down (rather far, in my opinion) to find the search box. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 04:29, 3 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
:This was actually something I had been thinking about doing for a while but never got around to it because it takes a bit of hacking into the code of the MediaWiki engine, but it was quite easy and as you can see I've moved the Search button up to the top. This should make it at least a little easier for the time being. Thanks for your input. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:57, 3 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
== Characters with multiple names ==
+
 
+
This is one problem I've had. We have [[Gandalf]], [[Mithrandir]], [[Grey Wanderer]], etc. I think having separate articles for different names is a must, unlike [http://www.wikipedia.org Wikipedia] who simply redirects them to one main article. I think we can go into enough detail about the meaning of the name, when the character used the name, etc, to justify an article for it. Another reason I dislike the redirection is because I will go to one article but redirected to another article abd I become confused as to why I am there. ''But'' I do not think content should be spread across multiple articles. For example a ruler of [[Numenor]] should not have their pre-ruling information in say [[Pharazon]] and have anything after they changed their name to [[Ar-Pharazon]] be listed there, it should all be in one article. This being said I think we should vote on a primary article, such as [[Gandalf]] for the information to be stored, and other related naming articles should be linked to from there (and to there). The choice is the difficult decision, especially with say [[Aragorn]], do you use his birth name? ruling name? full name? And then what would his full name be? It was different at different times. Another thing in this same area is we need to go through and make sure a page like [[Gandalf]] has links to all his other names. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 10:36, 5 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
:In my opinion, it's best to put the main article on someone/-thing under the lemma of 'most-named'/'most-(in)famous name'; i.e. the main article on '''Aragorn''' under the lemma [[Aragorn]] with links vice-versa to and from the other names and titles [e.g at the end of the article with a '''See also:''']. The main article on [[Melkor]] could be, likewise, under the lemma [[Morgoth]]. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 15:33, 5 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
:: Hm, in regards to [[Aragorn]] though should we at least specify [[Aragorn II]] since he was technically not the first Aragorn? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:37, 5 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
:::But we all do know him as plain 'Aragorn', not as [[Aragorn II]]. If it were up to me, I would transfer the disambiguation on [[Aragorn]] (that is, the part linking to [[Aragorn I]]) to the top of the page on ''the'' Aragorn, and therefore also linking [[Aragorn]] to the article on ''the'' Aragorn (that is, redirecting [[Aragorn]] to [[Aragorn II]]. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 15:43, 5 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
::::Okay I think I agree with you. But I'm a perfectionist so I need to make sure we have exact statistical reasoning behind it. So what we can do to decide what title will be used as the primary content holder, is to count the references used in [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s work. Thus [[Aragorn]] is used mainly for [[Aragorn II]] so Aragorn will be the primary content holder. And like you said, place [[Aragorn II]] at the top and we can place other names for him such as [[Strider]], [[Elessar]], etc. at the bottom. I'm content with this solution and will add the Aragorn change to my todo list. As always, thanks for the input. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:50, 5 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
== Canon scale ==
+
 
+
I had an idea, what if we created some sort of scale, like 1-5 or 1-10 or something that would specify how canonical (?) an article is considered. Just something to help people identify how scholars view the character/thing. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 10:49 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
:I don't think one can make a "scale of canonicity". The question of 'canon' or 'non-canon' is far too cmplicated and individualistic I think. One could make a list like 'published', 'postumously published', 'early idea, later discarded', 'late writing', and the like, I guess, with the reader him/herself deciding on canonicity. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 15:24, 5 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
::You're probably right. But I think even works like [[The Lord of the Rings]] aren't perfect. For example in the latest edition [[Aiglos]] was changed to [[Aeglos]]. In my opinion [[Aeglos]] would be considered more canon even though it was altered after [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s death. I guess as long as we specify what makes the character/item/etc canon or non-canon then that would be sufficient. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:32, 5 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
:::We could add '''Notes on Canonicity''' at the end of certain articles, if we think that's necessary, with arguments pro and con its (non)canonicity. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 15:47, 5 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
== Image for Main Page and Logo ==
+
 
+
One thing I've been searching for the past few days is an image for the main page. In my opinion its just rather bland and a nice image on the right side would do nicely until we can get an entirely new theme going. My suggestion was either the [[Smaug]] symbol from the cover of first edition of [[The Hobbit]] or [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s symbol that was on the cover of the first edition of [[The Lord of the Rings]]. If anyone has seen either of these images or has another suggestion, please let me know. The perfect image would be with a white background, something that doesn't look obviously scanned or skewed, and something at least a couple hundred pixels wide/tall. I also would be open to changing the logo for the site as well, maybe something a bit more unique? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:55, 5 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
== Elvish-English & English-Elvish entries? ==
+
 
+
I would assume everyone is for having [[Elvish]] articles such as [[hyarmen]] being the word for south in Quenya. But what about English-Quneya/Sindarin entries? Such as utilizing Ardalambion's English-Quenya word list, this way someone could search for "tall" and the tall article would state in Quenya tall is halla. Obviously we would have a halla article that states in English it translates to tall, but would having the english articles be too much? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 13:30, 9 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
:So, what you are proposing is some kind of dictionary?
+
:On a related note: what do we do with Elvish names and their English translations? Do they always get their seperate articles? I've wondered about that for some time now and was reminded by it when stumbling of [[Serindë]] today [nice thing, that 'Random Page' feature ;)]. The article is two sentences long, with the second being "Serindë means '[[needlewoman]]'." Should we have a seperate article [[Needlewoman]], with just one sentence: "'''Needlewoman''' is the translation of the name [[Serindë]]."?
+
:--[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 16:32, 9 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
::Ya, pretty much like a dictionary. Arg...ya the Serindë/Needlewoman/etc is something I've been stalling on. Personally I would create [[Needlewoman]] and as you said, state that it is translated to Serindë, this would also work well with the English-Elvish 'dictionary.' But I also tend to go way overboard with these things, heh.  We can put it on the back-burner for now as I'd like to sort out all these [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted pages]] first. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 18:26, 9 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
== Hobbit Classification ==
+
 
+
I'm having trouble deciding what categories to put Hobbit families into and which articles should be about them. I think we need one article for the family, which would include a family tree and a history of the family etc. Should this be called "Boffin", "Boffins", "Boffin family", or "Boffin Family". On top of that I still haven't fully decided on how to categorize them, Category:Boffins seems the most likely, any ideas? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 13:56, 10 March 2006 (EST)
+
:For the family articles, I'd say either "X Family" (since most article titles are capitalized), or the family's name only (singular). For the Category, (also) singular form, as that is the family name itself. I mean, Mr and Mrs Johnson's family name is 'Johnson', not '(the) Johnsons'. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 16:19, 11 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
::I've gone through [[The Hobbit]] and [[The Lord of the Rings]] and any family reference uses a lowercase f for family. I think for simplicity sake I'm going to focus on [[Baggins family]] for articles and [[:Category:Baggins family]] for the category. If anyone has any objections, do say so. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 23:12, 27 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
== Book Chapters ==
+
 
+
I definitely would like to have an article for every chapter in at least [[The Hobbit]], [[The Lord of the Rings]], and [[The Silmarillion]]. One issue that has come up, is of course naming.  Would something like [[A Long-expected Party]] work? Unfortunately this poses a problem for chapters such as [[Strider]] as they would have to be directed to something like [[Strider (chapter)]]. Or we could use [[The Lord of the Rings Chapter 1]] or [[The Lord of the Rings Chapter I]] in Roman Numerals. Another option would be [[The Lord of the Rings - A Long-expected Party]]. Any suggestions? Whichever standard we use I think we should at least redirect the chapter titles such as A Long-expected Party to the correct chapter article. And then maybe at the bottom of the Strider article put a link to the chapter. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 23:22, 13 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
:I think we'd best create articles with just the Chapter title, not the book's title added to it. For the chapter titles that cause the problems you mention, we could create disambiguation pages. Which would mean, of course, that for the article of the chapter title, we would have to add "(chapter)" to it, as you said: [[Strider (chapter)]]. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 06:22, 27 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
== Calendars in other languages than English ==
+
 
+
I think the title of these calendars should, at least in the article, be in the language the calendar is in itself. Example: yesterday, I changed the [[The Lord of the Rings 50th Anniversary Calendar (Spanish)]] article to contain the Spanish title. It's best to leave the link to the article in English, with the addition of the particular language of the calendar, but to use the correct title of the calendar ''in'' the article itself. I mean, the title of this particular calendar is not '''The Lord of the Rings 50th Anniversary Calendar''', but '''El Señor de los Anillos Calendario 50 Aniversario'''. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 02:42, 14 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
:I think that is probably our best bet. I wanted to make sure that Tolkien Gateway focuses as an English Encyclopedia thus if an article title is in Spanish it becomes unsearchable/hard ot find by our English friends. But we also want to make sure they don't confuse the true title so your idea is the way to go. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 12:03, 14 March 2006 (EST)
+
 
+
== Tolkien's Inspirations? ==
+
 
+
Yet another naming question (YANQ), I think it would be nice to have an article (or two) which list works (or other things) which inspired [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]. Firstly I think an article title is in order. ''J.R.R. Tolkien's inspirations'' is one I suppose, or ''Works which inspired J.R.R. Tolkien'', etc. Whether we want to include people, places, ideas, works, etc. all in one article or separate them somehow I haven't decided. [[User:Ardamir|Ardamir]]'s [http://www.abo.fi/~jolin/tolkien/inspirations/index.htm Tolkien's Inspirations] section is a good place to get some ideas. We almost need an entire discussion page dedicated to title discussions...I dare not bring up a discussion on what that page should be called... --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:56, 30 March 2006 (EST)
+

Revision as of 10:26, 25 December 2011

All previous discussions have been moved to the Council forum. All future general Tolkien Gateway discussions should be had in said forum. This discussion page is specifically for topics relating to the Community Portal project page.

Contents

Importance?

I think that this page should be re-added to the sidebar; however first it's content and layout should change. This page is meant to be a place which brings the community together and encourages editors to help out in different ways, so basically it should be a well-organised layout of links to important pages which are too many to list now. If people wish for this page to be 'revived' then it'd be happy to redesign it (based on the Main page layout for continuity) and change it's content.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  11:31, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

I agree,  KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email , and by the way, nice job with CP page. It should be moved to the sidebar and protected.--Theoden1 18:44, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

Thoeden gives aid to gondor

The Gondor city of Minas Tirith has a incoming attack from Mordor after a defeat at osgilith. The rohirrim have now rode of to the encampment at Dunharrow and next day they ride to war Who knows what happens but give hope to Rohans Gracious army Unsigned comment by Brian (talk • contribs).

Uhm. Right? What' your question? -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:29, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Reductions of events in the film.

Hello, dear like-mindeds! I'm happy to be the member of "Tolkien Gateway". I have just joined in it. And I want to ask you: "Did you talk about this fact that in the film "The Lord of the Rings" many interesting events are reduced?". Frankly speaking, I want to see, for example, Tom Bombadil or Glorfindel in this film... Do you follow me? What is your opinion about it? Please, leave your comment! I'll be glad. Unsigned comment by Victoria Angmarskaya (talk • contribs).

You may find this article of some interest.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  15:04, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Spam

Now the Community Portal has been spammed. Unsigned comment by Gamling (talk • contribs).

Merry Christmas!

Merry christmas, everybody! --Amroth 10:26, 25 December 2011 (UTC)