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User talk:Ederchil

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'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br>
 
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br>
 
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br>
 
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br>
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''
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'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br>
=2011=
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'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br>
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=2012=
 
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<!--Start typing below this line-->
 
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== My User Page ==
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==WITN release year==
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Just a little note, [[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]] is published in [[2011]]. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 13:59, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
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== Secret Vice ==
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Hi Ederchil! Why did you [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=A_Secret_Vice&action=historysubmit&diff=186885&oldid=186884 revert this]? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:25, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
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:Couple of reasons:
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* No markup.
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* No sources.
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* No composition.
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* Poor spelling.
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* POV. He begins "in a subtle fasion [sic]"? That's commentary.
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:Basically, that an article requires a rewrite does not mean we can accept anything. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:40, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
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::Well, I still think it was a pretty good summary (although especially suffering from a POV as you say, - but the poor spelling is easily fixed and if the POV is removed no sources would be needed as it would be only a summary). I'll have a go at editing the anonymous user's text.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:48, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
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:::It was more work than I expected ;-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:26, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
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== Vandalism ==
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I suspect you'll likely notice [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_Five_Armies&action=historysubmit&diff=191929&oldid=190658 this] anyhow, but I wanted to leave a note just in case.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]]
  
Hey Ederchil, I'm having some trouble coding a couple things on my user page and I wanted to know if you could help me out and let me know how I can fix them? So, I'm trying to get the picture of Eärendil centered under Legolas' quote, and also, how could I get the quote to the left of the image? Lastly, how can I get Aragorn's quote on Gondor to stay below the picture without using so many "br" codes for spacing (if there is a way)? Thank you!! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 19:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
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:Sorry, full day of classes. Looks like Mith already has it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:45, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
  
Also, I'm trying to make a heading for my "Userboxes" area. I'd like it to go beneath that with the titles "Code" and "Userbox." How can I make that and post userboxes beneath each column with their code also displayed? Thanks again!! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 20:04, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
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== On Tolkien ==
  
:Better? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:31, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
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As far as I know, it hasn't been published yet.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:03, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
  
::Yeah, that helped a lot, thanks! But what of the userbox header? --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 21:46, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
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== Noel ==
  
== [[Eriador]] ==
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IMHO, I don't think it's problematic to use Noel as a source in those cases where no other analyses of a name have appeared. Especially if we're clear about giving the reference and denoting the etymology as being a "suggestion". And if a new analysis appears, it's possible to see how olkien linguists have historically interpreted a certain word. I'd say it's a bit similar to "Portrayal in Adaptions": even if we don't think that this or that adaptation was authentic, we still include it for the sake of completeness. What do you think? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:44, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
  
Hey Ederchil, it has been over a year now since our last Featured Article change and [[Eriador]] has received four positive votes. Maybe you could vote on the article and with a bit of luck we have five votes then ;) -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 19:58, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
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:Normally I'd say true, but in this case, it's so obviously proven incorrect by later info that we'd best not mention it. I haven't checked the Etymologies, Elfling or PE yet for a more accurate etymology. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:51, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
  
==Meeting==
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==Question==
Hi Ederchil! Welcome to join the meeting which is taking place right now, if you have a chance. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:54, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
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==Congrats==
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Hi I'm Vaire thanks for making my user page open for other people and a real page, and I have a question, on the user page how do you add the box on the side where you can describe yourself? You can tell me on my user page [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]
  
:(Just saw you've become 25. I know it's a bit late, but ''beter laat dan nooit''.)
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Thank you, sorry about the mistakes I made in editing [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]
:Congratulations, Ederchil, with your 25th birthday. I hope you had a nice birthday.
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:Was April 17. I don't really feel 25, though. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:01, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
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I did what it said to do in the here but when I saved it just said all the things I typed, I did do it on my iPad if that makes a difference. [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]
  
== Elendur ==
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:I have no idea what you're trying to tell me. You tried what? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:10, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
  
[http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Elendur_%28son_of_Isildur%29&diff=81900&oldid=81894 Where did you find the hair and eye colour] for [[Elendur (son of Isildur)]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:58, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
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For the user info box I copied what it said on the link you gave me and filled it out and I saved it an my user page but the box did not come up it just said was I typed, but when I typed it I used my iPad, does that make I difference? [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]
  
:Probably conjecture based on their Númenorean heritage. 2009... those were the sourceless days. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:10, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
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:No, it went wrong because you typed the template instead of copy pasting it. Those vertical lines aren't capital I's. That's a "pipe", |. You can find it on uppercase \ on most keyboards, not sure about the iPad. I fixed it, it displays properly now. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:38, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
  
== New letters to insert box ==
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Thank you!! And I think that I can edit know [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]
  
Could you please add the "tilde" letters to the insert box?
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:Please don't copy from Wikipedia. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:35, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
  
Ãã Ẽẽ Ĩĩ Ññ Õõ Ũũ Ṽṽ Ỹỹ
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==Years==
  
Thank you. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:54, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
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Thank you for telling me about adding the catagorys when creating a page about a year. [[User:Vaire|Vaire]] 16:18, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
  
== Nick Clegg ==
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== New signs? ==
  
[[U:KingAragorn|KingAragorn]] is helping me test the [http://tolkiengateway.net/beta Beta wiki]. He got the wrong one! (You can help too: just go around doing stuff - the sooner it's tested, the sooner it'll be here.) --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:06, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
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Perhaps add £ $ € to the insert box? I have neither of these on my keyboard.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:18, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
==Deleted Proto-Quendian elements==
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Hi there. I had started some articles with analyses on PQ elements and affixes, like the article on [[-rô]] and possibly others. Yesterday I found that you deleted it, and it's only content was <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki>. I never realized that it was a candidate for deletion, nor the reason, although I can guess (red links, original research, triviality etc). However since I had put quite some effort writing them, would it be possible to salvage the latest version so that I can copy it to some personal space? Thanks [[User:Sage|Sage]] 09:05, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
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:I probably deleted them as part of a batch when I was going through To Be Deleted. I restored them, just tag them for deletion again when you're done with them. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 15:26, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
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:They're already on there. Okay, not the Dollar, but Pound and Euro are. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
  
== RE: Images ==
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== Deletion of old version of images ==
  
I'll be sure to next time! --[[User:Icarus|'''Icarus''']] <sup>([[User talk:Icarus|Son of Daedalus]])</sup> 09:19, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
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Could you delete the old versions of [[:File:Verlyn Flieger.jpg]] and [[:File:Ted Nasmith.jpg]]?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
  
== Article ==
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:Yes, yes I can. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:10, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
  
hmm Hello, I am working on the elves project and I just finished editing [[Amroth]] when I found out that you mentioned that it needed more resourcing. May I ask why ? While editing, I had as only source The Unfinished Tales, the other one (Etymology) I left it as it was. What part exactly needs sourcing ? Is there something more about Amroth in the HoME ? Thank you. [[User:Arwen.lb|Arwen.lb]] 12:03, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
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::Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:56, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
  
:The Other versions in the legendarium section needs some specific sources. You might want to check [[Help:References]] on how to include notes, and the Citation templates (like [[:Template:UT]]) are easier than writing it out in full too. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 12:21, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
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== Reverts on my edits to Fingon and Turgon. ==
  
::Ah Okay I'll check that again thanks :) [[User:Arwen.lb|Arwen.lb]] 12:25, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
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Hi there.
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Recently, I made some contribution to the Etymologies of Fingon and Turgon. The original writing did not give clear meanings, and just showed a lot of IPA. I made some proper edits to them, quoting from Tokien's works, showing the roots of all the different elements within their names. however, my edits appear to have been removed since i didn't reference the facts. This is not strictly true, since I wrote all the references to my information directly in the section. I just didn't show them as footnote references.
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Will you revert it? Should i add footnote references?
  
== why ==
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--[[User:Reallyfat|Reallyfat]] 17:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
  
===this does'nt make sense===
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:Couple of points:
dear
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:* Yes, inline notes are preferred. See [[Template:HM|here]] for all the sourcing templates.
  ederchil
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:* You should never, ever, use the first person on a wiki. "We know..." Aargh.
why where my additions deleated???????
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:* Beginning a second paragraph with "Note that"... also a stylistic no no.
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:* The entire second paragraph of Fingon is incorrect. Caun is attested Sindarin, and it would become -gon.
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:So, it's not at all about sources... it's because cleaning up required too much work, and would eventually be no different from the original. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:34, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
  
:Because we have standards. Your edits are far below those. If you type "sauruman" and "hobbeton", and use no punctuation, you shouldn't be surprised we get rid of it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:20, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
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Right, thanks a lot. I will remove the second paragraph there and in Turgon., since i was not paying attention to "Caun". I wonder how I overlooked it? I was following the books all the way. Anyway, I will do that, and take care with the first person in future. Apart from that, can the translations remain up?
  
== Orcs WP clean-up ==
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PS: What is wrong with saying "note that"?
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--[[User:Reallyfat|Reallyfat]] 17:56, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
  
If you're short on time, I could have a look on cleaning up/adapting the WP copy on "Orcs". --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:39, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
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::"Note that" is almost without exception followed by something that is completely not worth noting. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:57, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
:Nope. See his talk in a sec. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
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== Concerning the _orcs_ ==
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:::Haha, I don't buy that :) but in any case, an expression like "note that" is actually second person (imperative), which, like the first person, is unencyclopedic. An acceptable expression would be "It is worth noting/notable that..." (and no, it doesn't always precede a trivia :)) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 11:03, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
  
So, why was my edit undid. Any good reason for removing the 'being Westron' stuff? I'd like to know. Would you mind to comment to my discussion there? Suilad! [[User:SUM EGO|SUM EGO]] 01:32, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
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Right. I will keep that in mind.
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So, CAN I post my edits (with the amendments made)? I just want to putthe proper translations up, since these current ones aren't exactly correct. Plus, Sarafinwë is only from Parma Eldalamberon, It isn't even from Tolkien's works. {{unsigned|Reallyfat}}
  
:For one, [[Template:HM|sourcing]]. Explanations and direct quotes go in the text, only the source goes in the refs.
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:Parma Eldalamberon publishes works by Tolkien. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:00, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
:It's never said to be Westron in the source you gave - it's CS (the entry Orcs in [[Nomenclature]]. In the intro, JRRT mentions that isn't actual CS, but the English used to represent it.
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:Appendix F, Of Other Races, Orcs and the Black Speech, first line: "Orc in the form of the name that other races had for this foul people as it was in the language of Rohan."
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:[[Parma Eldalamberon 17|PE17]]:47 gives the Westron word "orka" for Orc.
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:Either way, the section, and the entire article, needs an extensive rewrite. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:18, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
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::See, I know it's not easy to tell when CS refers to the actual W. But if orc's English, why does it need to be TRANSLATED Goblin?  
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::Where in any version of the Legendarium, the old HoMe, or any of tolkiens letters is Sarafinwë mentioned? The only source we have is Parma Eldalamberon, Parma 17. --[[User:Reallyfat|Reallyfat]] 04:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
_orc_ is kind of an exception. It's genuine W, but unlike any other W words (eg. Karningul, totally replaced by Rivendell) Tolkien retained the SOUND of it along with the English equivalent Goblin. That's what I get from the source I gave and ...
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Quote: "Orc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin ... Orc is the hobbits' form of the name given at that time to these creatures, and it is not connected at all with our orc, ork..." --- The Hobbit.
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:::Hi Reallyfat, thanks so much for your recent contributions! I think Ederchil agrees that the source is from Parma Eldalamberon, but because it originates from Tolkien's own manuscripts, it's worth noting. Obviously it's not going to be considered as [[canon]] as other things, but as long as we reference it, we can let the reader decide. Thanks again for your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 04:53, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
[[User:SUM EGO|SUM EGO]] 17:43, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
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Revision as of 11:05, 13 February 2013

Nuvola apps edu languages.png
Welcome to Ederchil's talk page.

Contents

Archive

January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008
January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009
January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010
February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011

2012

WITN release year

Just a little note, The Lord of the Rings: War in the North is published in 2011. --Amroth 13:59, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Secret Vice

Hi Ederchil! Why did you revert this? --Morgan 21:25, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Couple of reasons:
  • No markup.
  • No sources.
  • No composition.
  • Poor spelling.
  • POV. He begins "in a subtle fasion [sic]"? That's commentary.
Basically, that an article requires a rewrite does not mean we can accept anything. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:40, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, I still think it was a pretty good summary (although especially suffering from a POV as you say, - but the poor spelling is easily fixed and if the POV is removed no sources would be needed as it would be only a summary). I'll have a go at editing the anonymous user's text.--Morgan 12:48, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
It was more work than I expected ;-) --Morgan 14:26, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism

I suspect you'll likely notice this anyhow, but I wanted to leave a note just in case.--Morgan

Sorry, full day of classes. Looks like Mith already has it. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 14:45, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

On Tolkien

As far as I know, it hasn't been published yet.--Morgan 16:03, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Noel

IMHO, I don't think it's problematic to use Noel as a source in those cases where no other analyses of a name have appeared. Especially if we're clear about giving the reference and denoting the etymology as being a "suggestion". And if a new analysis appears, it's possible to see how olkien linguists have historically interpreted a certain word. I'd say it's a bit similar to "Portrayal in Adaptions": even if we don't think that this or that adaptation was authentic, we still include it for the sake of completeness. What do you think? --Morgan 14:44, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Normally I'd say true, but in this case, it's so obviously proven incorrect by later info that we'd best not mention it. I haven't checked the Etymologies, Elfling or PE yet for a more accurate etymology. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 14:51, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Question

Hi I'm Vaire thanks for making my user page open for other people and a real page, and I have a question, on the user page how do you add the box on the side where you can describe yourself? You can tell me on my user page Vaire

Thank you, sorry about the mistakes I made in editing Vaire

I did what it said to do in the here but when I saved it just said all the things I typed, I did do it on my iPad if that makes a difference. Vaire

I have no idea what you're trying to tell me. You tried what? --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:10, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

For the user info box I copied what it said on the link you gave me and filled it out and I saved it an my user page but the box did not come up it just said was I typed, but when I typed it I used my iPad, does that make I difference? Vaire

No, it went wrong because you typed the template instead of copy pasting it. Those vertical lines aren't capital I's. That's a "pipe", |. You can find it on uppercase \ on most keyboards, not sure about the iPad. I fixed it, it displays properly now. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:38, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!! And I think that I can edit know Vaire

Please don't copy from Wikipedia. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:35, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Years

Thank you for telling me about adding the catagorys when creating a page about a year. Vaire 16:18, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

New signs?

Perhaps add £ $ € to the insert box? I have neither of these on my keyboard.--Morgan 23:18, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

They're already on there. Okay, not the Dollar, but Pound and Euro are. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 07:24, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Deletion of old version of images

Could you delete the old versions of File:Verlyn Flieger.jpg and File:Ted Nasmith.jpg?-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  22:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, yes I can. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 22:10, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks!-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  22:56, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Reverts on my edits to Fingon and Turgon.

Hi there. Recently, I made some contribution to the Etymologies of Fingon and Turgon. The original writing did not give clear meanings, and just showed a lot of IPA. I made some proper edits to them, quoting from Tokien's works, showing the roots of all the different elements within their names. however, my edits appear to have been removed since i didn't reference the facts. This is not strictly true, since I wrote all the references to my information directly in the section. I just didn't show them as footnote references. Will you revert it? Should i add footnote references?

--Reallyfat 17:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Couple of points:
  • Yes, inline notes are preferred. See here for all the sourcing templates.
  • You should never, ever, use the first person on a wiki. "We know..." Aargh.
  • Beginning a second paragraph with "Note that"... also a stylistic no no.
  • The entire second paragraph of Fingon is incorrect. Caun is attested Sindarin, and it would become -gon.
So, it's not at all about sources... it's because cleaning up required too much work, and would eventually be no different from the original. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:34, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Right, thanks a lot. I will remove the second paragraph there and in Turgon., since i was not paying attention to "Caun". I wonder how I overlooked it? I was following the books all the way. Anyway, I will do that, and take care with the first person in future. Apart from that, can the translations remain up?

PS: What is wrong with saying "note that"? --Reallyfat 17:56, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

"Note that" is almost without exception followed by something that is completely not worth noting. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:57, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Haha, I don't buy that :) but in any case, an expression like "note that" is actually second person (imperative), which, like the first person, is unencyclopedic. An acceptable expression would be "It is worth noting/notable that..." (and no, it doesn't always precede a trivia :)) Sage 11:03, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Right. I will keep that in mind. So, CAN I post my edits (with the amendments made)? I just want to putthe proper translations up, since these current ones aren't exactly correct. Plus, Sarafinwë is only from Parma Eldalamberon, It isn't even from Tolkien's works. Unsigned comment by Reallyfat (talk • contribs).

Parma Eldalamberon publishes works by Tolkien. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 14:00, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Where in any version of the Legendarium, the old HoMe, or any of tolkiens letters is Sarafinwë mentioned? The only source we have is Parma Eldalamberon, Parma 17. --Reallyfat 04:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi Reallyfat, thanks so much for your recent contributions! I think Ederchil agrees that the source is from Parma Eldalamberon, but because it originates from Tolkien's own manuscripts, it's worth noting. Obviously it's not going to be considered as canon as other things, but as long as we reference it, we can let the reader decide. Thanks again for your help! --Hyarion 04:53, 13 February 2013 (UTC)