User talk:Ederchil: Difference between revisions

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=Archive=
=Archive=
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br>
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br>
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br>
=2010=
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br>
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br>
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br>
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br>
= 2017 =
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== Discussion ==
== My Bot ==
 
Hi Ederchil, is it possible you could add [[User:Mithbot]] to the [[Special:ListUsers&group=bot|bot usergroup]] (no idea why that's a  redlinks: it works for me) so I can do some menial and boring tasks quickly? Thanks, --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:50, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 
:I'm only a sysop, not a [[wikipedia:WP:BUR|bureaucrat]], so I can't change user group rights. You could PM or email Hyarion for this. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:50, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 
::Oh, OK, I thought you were (wishful thinking!). Thanks anyway! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:57, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Actually, I thought I was too :) -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:21, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 
== Main page spelling mistake ==
 
Hello - while using this wiki, I noticed that main page's featured article has a spelling mistake. It should be '''borne''' not ''born'' in the sentence "Glamdring was the sword once born by Turgon, King of Gondolin." I can't edit the page! :) [[User:Darth Newdar|Darth Newdar]] 17:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 
:Thank you. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:40, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 
== The Peril to the Shire page ==
 
Just wanted to know why you keep editing the page I'm building on "The Peril to the Shire".  I worked rather hard on it, yet you keep re-arranging and deleting stuff.  It would be nice if you asked first, or at least let me know what you are up to.
 
Doug Dunklin, producer/director of "The Peril to the Shire"
"[[User:Ltcdunk|Ltcdunk]] 20:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)"
 
:I figured you were involved in production. First of all, thank you for contributing.
 
:I basically rearranged a lot to make it fit our [[TG:MOS|Manual of Style]] and deleted a lot because it was (in my eyes) repetition. Also, a lot of text in long sentences does not improve readability, and detracts attention from your own website (we don't want to be ''too'' complete now, do we?). --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 
== An image page won't load ==
I was trying to load the entry page for [[:Image:Middle-earth (large).jpg]], and all I get from the server is an empty page.  I reloaded repeatedly, and I still get an empty page.  I tried other images in [[:Category:Non-canon maps|the category I found it in]], and many other pages load fine.  But this page won't.  A couple others won't too&mdash;I suspect that the large file size may have something to do with it, but that's just a guess.  Maybe the server is failing to generate a thumbnail for images that size?  I just don't know. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 17:07, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 
:I'm not really having trouble with the image itself, but I think you're referring to [[MERP: Middle-earth Role Playing Poster Maps]], the page on which it is embedded. I have the same issue. I managed to sneak into the history via [[User:Morgan|Morgan]]'s contributions and removed the image (resizing it gave problems again). -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:50, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 
Now an entire ''category'' page won't load, and I didn't exactly embed images into the page body either. o.o [[:Category:Maps of Minas Tirith]].  It displayed mostly alright after I created it, but now the category page is just a white blank, like some of the image pages.  Is it possible that MediaWiki or one of its backend programs is running out of memory?  Or another kind of error?  How do we fix this kind of thing? - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 09:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 
:Apparently a new image problem, "Error creating thumbnail: Invalid thumbnail parameters". Don't know about the category. i'll see if I can email Hyarion about this. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 
::I've seen that problem before, on Wikia.  The problem is, an image has too many millions of pixels to buffer into memory to create a thumbnail.  It doesn't matter if the file itself is small&mdash;if it has very large dimensions, the thumbnail backend software runs out of memory trying to generate a thumbnail for it.  This can be fixed by increasing the amount of memory it's permitted to allocate, if that is possible.  I've been thinking that memory increase may greatly benefit the particular Tolkien interest that involves very highly-detailed maps, as Tolkien is full of those.  Either that or we split up some of the largest images into multiple segmented image files.  That'll be easy for PNGs, but not for JPEGs.  Recently I uploaded some very large maps, including one of Middle-earth (Role-playing Game canon, I think), and another absolutely gorgeous non-canon map of Minas Tirith (which may have been involved in making that category page show blank).  It would be a shame if those couldn't be displayed. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 14:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 
[[:Image:Minas Anor 2000.jpg‎]] is the new Minas Tirith map I uploaded.  (It's fantastic, don't you think?)  It's the only Minas Tirith image of the new maps I recently uploaded, and it almost certainly is related to the page [[:Category:Maps of Minas Tirith]] showing blank now.<br/>
Honestly, Tolkien wiki has hundreds of wonderful maps, and it would be in our interests to be able to display all of them, even the very large files or the images of very large dimensions. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 15:01, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 
==Anna Lee==
Sorry about the peacock-term "beautiful". - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 15:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 
:No problem. Though I do agree, it's just not encyclopedic. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 
== On the future of dictionary-style entries ==
 
There has been a recent heavy debate on this at [[Forum:Quenya declension template appearance]].  Since you have weighed on this before, could you weigh in now?  I originally went ahead with this project after asking about it, and you seemed to approve.  To be honest, my concern is mainly linguistic and grammatical, and I didn't want to get so involved in a debate about whether linguistics on this wiki are at all even noteworthy. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 01:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 
:Sorry, my attention tends to drop away with long paragraphs and no images :), so I didn't respond. Will do now. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 13:54, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 
::Thank you for your feedback.  You always seem like a gentle voice of wisdom here and I appreciate it. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 18:11, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 
== Withdrawing inflection templates ==
 
Considering the highly-controversial and sometimes flame-war-bait nature of trying to fully inflect Tolkien's languages in this wiki, I want to withdraw the entire inflection project.  But I'm not sure how to do it.  I think it would involve deleting all the embedded templates and "Inflection" sections.  But considering the heavy time and energy I put into it all, it may take about as much just to remove them.  I just don't know how to get it done quickly.  But I want to get this all behind me and away from this controversy.  And I swear, swear, ''swear'' that I didn't have a clue about the elvish.org vs. Ardalambion controversies, etc.  My primary source of all data was Ardalambion and closely associated sites.  I didn't know there was such a heated holy war involved in the issue.  I think I would generally agree with Ardalambion (elvish.org's FAQs sound really stuck-up to my inner anti-copyright liberal socialistic streak), but I don't want to be on the front lines of this&mdash;I don't want to be confrontational, not on purpose.  I'd rather practice the fan-standardized aspects of the languages in my private user pages or other informal venues, and only practice harder data in the articles.  Ederchil, please help me.  Are there any more powerful wiki tools (bots, etc.) we can use to clean this up?  I have to make this right. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 05:12, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 
:It's a pity, because you've certainly put lots of time in the process. But you could blame us in a way; we should've responded earlier.
:We do have bots, though I fear this kind of job would have to be done by hand. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:15, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 
::Ouch.  Well, at least they're all marked with "inflection" (an easily searchable word), and the templates are currently hidden from display (but near "inflection" making them easy to edit).  I suppose this is a job that could be done gradually over time...if everyone pitched in, I mean.  It's just...well...I want to get past the issue, very much so.  I want to get past potential future forum postings of "what are all these invisible templates and why are they all over the place"?  I cringe thinking of that.  And I feel like having a wikistress attack when I search "inflection" and see hundreds of results that are all my work.  I wish there were an easier way through this. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 09:21, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 
I just removed one search page's worth.  About 19 or 20.  And then I clicked "500", and it refreshed the first page, and...there are ''more'' than 500.  How on earth did I embed so many in seemingly such a short time?  I've ruined your wiki. :( - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 09:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 
:It's not mine, so it's okay :). I'll see if I can do some of them. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 
::I know you don't ''own'' it, but you are a sysadmin.  It's practically yours.  You have so much work to do here as it is, and I'm certainly no help.  I mean, I do...maybe...IPA, categories, userboxes, navboxes...  ...oh.  Well, I guess I've done ''something''.  And then I filled half the wiki with controversial inflections.  I have this feeling like I'm a small child who's been caught covering the walls of an entire house with crayon.  This all would be hilarious if it weren't all so...inconveniencing to people. XD - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 10:34, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 
I've removed some more inflections (a few dozen, maybe), and now there are less than 500 articles with the word "inflection" in them.  I've been working from the opposite end of the search results, so that I wouldn't step on your toes in case you were working from the top of the list. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 21:45, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 
:I just want to apologise. I didn't intend for all of these to be removed in their entirety, there was definitely something there worth having, just probably not in its current appearance or scale. Does that make sense? I am sorry, though, you've felt the need to remove the lot.
 
:If [[User:Mithbot|Mithbot]] had been approved by [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] (where is he?!) I would get it to do all this work on (y)our behalf. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:21, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 
::Since Hyarion finished school and has a job, he has found himself having less and less time for the internet.
::I think it's better to do it manually, actually, because it also gives you the opportunity to clean the articles up a bit. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:28, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 
::It won't be a complete loss.  Once all the templates are removed, someone can go back and make a brief note about Quenya nouns' stem forms and Sindarin nouns' special conditions (like whether a noun that begins with b/d/g mutates like b/d/g or like mb/nd/ng), and also notes regarding Sindarin plurals and Quenya irregular plurals (that may have just been fickle because of Tolkien changing his mind at least once).  Then, if you ''believe'' in regular rules, you can read them and ascertain inflections for yourself.
::Anyway, Mith, I'm also sorry for grating on your nerves before.  You can read my final explanation on my chronically abnormal way of communication at the forum post where we did most of our talking.  I'm always going to be very strange to talk to, and I don't want you grated or anything (I never did in the first place), but I'm hoping you can at least acclimate to it and see my good faith, even if most times I have no common sense.
::And if you need your bot approved, and Hyarion is not available to provide approval, then does anyone (perhaps Ederchil) have the authority to (at least tentatively) approve it? - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 18:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Nope. I'm not a bureaucrat. See above. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Mith, you don't ''have'' to have your bot user made into an official bot for it to work; the only thing it will do is hide the bot's edits from the recent changes page - so if the other  contributors don't mind it clogging up the recent changes page, I'm sure you could use it. ;) --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 11:34, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 
== MediaWiki memory limit ==
 
I read on various MediaWiki support sites that the reason categories and image pages with very large images (in file size or dimensions) show a blank page is because of a PHP error caused by running out of memory.  Since Tolkien Gateway is never going to have a shortage of highly-detailed high-resolution maps, is it possible we could ask Hyarion to increase the wiki's memory limit?  Perhaps to 64MB or more? - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 05:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 
:I don't know yet when I'll mail him, but I'll ask him. You can also mail him yourself, of course :). -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:46, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 
::I didn't know how to contact him.  Besides, he and I have never been acquainted in a wiki-working interaction.  I'd be a stranger who was feature-begging. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 20:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 
:::I have so much free time now (a cold took my voice away and a sprained ankle) that I keep forgetting to mail him. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 
== Main Page ==
 
Hi, could you make another article the next improvement drive article? I think [[Barad-dûr]] has improved quite much and although the "Portrayal in adaptations" section lacks some information about the earlier films I think that we should take the next article on the Main Page. What do you think?
A few suggestions: [[Angband]], [[Battle of Dagorlad]], [[Bywater]], [[Dale]], [[Glaurung]], [[Peter Jackson]], [[Mount Doom]], [[Treebeard]], [[Tuor]] -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:23, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:I've been meaning to do the Adaptations section but I keep forgetting. Since I only now realize I'm already already half an hour into Sunday, let me just say I'll do it this afternoon.
 
:As for the new one, my vote's for [[Tuor]]. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 23:27, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 
::I was just about to suggest Tuor! Great minds... --{{User:Mith/sig}} 00:13, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Great! Then let's take Tuor. -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 08:49, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Games ==
 
hey
 
Ringen is a LOTR-game. So maybe the link has to stay on the games-year article.
 
--[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 17:13, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:Already reverted it. I'm busy cleaning everything up. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:14, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
:: okay, I'm adding the game called Shadowfax here. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 17:15, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
 
== .mp3 ==
 
How can you upload .mp3, because I tried to upload a mp3-file and didn't work, it said it was the wrong file.
 
En zou de grootte van het bestand kunnen verhoogd, voor een dag ofzo. Dan kan ik een paar liedjes van Blind Guardian uploaden zodat ze gelijk te beluisteren zijn. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:00, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:Hele liedjes is geen fair use. .ogg en .mp3 zouden gewoon moeten werken - er staan er al [[:Category:Pronunciations|heel wat op de wiki]]. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:10, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
== My Source ==
 
Ok, you recently sent me a message explaining why you ''deleted'' (not very grateful about that) the pages I wrote.
 
Well, my source is a book I checked out a few weeks ago (before I discovered this site) called something like "Tolkien's World". It explained the history of Arda, but was not writen by any member of the Tolkien family, but by a close "associate", so I don't know how accurate it is.
 
The pages I wrote is based on a series of maps within the books, the first being a ''complete'' map of Arda, witch was divided into four continents: Aman, Hyarmenor, Middle-Earth and Eastland. Middle-Earth was inturn divided into Endor (the northern half) and Harad (the southern half).
 
After that map, there were five more maps - one of Aman, Hyarmenor, Eastland, Endor and Harad. The map of Endor realy grabbed my attention, because is showed the region of Middle-Earth (in detail!) east of Rhûn. Apparently, Rhûn goes on untill the Red Mountains (labelled "Orocarni") and an unnamed river that flows north-south from there down into the Enegaer (Inner Sea - can not believe that this site does not name it). This region is labelled "Rómen" (with "The East Lands" writen below in brackets - should not be confused with the ''continent'' "Eastland"). The region of Rohan, Rhûn and Rhovanion (everything between the Misty (I think) and Red Mountains) is labeled "Central Endor".
 
The map also names the north most region "Formenor" with "The Northern Waste" writen below in brackets (like with Rómen - this probably implies that the region has an alternative name).
 
After looking around in Google images, I managed to find a version of the full map of Arda, though it is coloured differently and is labeled unlike in the book:
 
[[image:John Ohara - Arda in the Second Age.jpg|right|150px]]
Middle-Earth is dreadfully mis-labeled, though. The "Formenor", "Endor" and "Harad" labels are correct (though Endor and Harad should be writen larger to show that they are the names of a group of regions). Also, "Hither Lands" wasn't writen there. Instead, "Middle-Earth" was writen in the centre of the continent in large letters.
 
Everything else is basically exactly as shown on the map in the book. I was unable to find the exact map or the detailed maps of the conitinents.
 
Do you think that counts as a reliable source? -- [[User:Explorer of Arda|Explorer of Arda]] 19:16, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:You're going to have to be a bit more specific - there's at least six books going by the name "[[Tolkien's World (disambiguation)|Tolkien's World]]". I know for a fact that it's not in Helms' book or ''Paintings of Middle-earth''. I haven't read Day's books, but he has a reputation for making stuff up. None of the authors are "close associates" of the Tolkien family. It wouldn't have mattered either way.
 
:The only full World map Tolkien made can be found in "[[The Shaping of Middle-earth]]". It does not contain the names "Formenor" or "Eastland". A quick google search on either term only results in fan fic sites. They're not in the index of ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]'', the ''Reader's Companion'', or the "major" reference works by [[Robert Foster]] and [[J.E.A. Tyler]].
 
:As in terms of reliable, if it's not primary (i.e. by Tolkien himself) it's ''caveat lector''. If it cites a source, double check. If it doesn't, double check anyway. Can't find it? Don't add it. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:35, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
::Ah. But I just want to know something. This site doesn't mention the Eastern or Inner Sea (as far as I know of) at all, though they appear in the inacurate map suplied. I know that there are some pages on this site with something at the top that says the page is speculative/inaccurate, so couldn't the pages relating to the above mentioned regions/seas be topped with that? -- [[User:Explorer of Arda|Explorer of Arda]] 19:16, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:::I think you mean [[:Template:Noncanon|this template]]. That's for stuff from ''The History of Middle-earth''. Meaning it did come from Tolkien, but he abandoned or revised the concept, or it doesn't fit into later work. Or [[:Template:Fanon|this template]], which concerns wide-spread fanon and unlicensed adaptations. Or [[:template:Adaptation|this one]], for licensed adaptations like movies, games and [[MERP]]. But without the source, I can't tell if it's any of them. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:07, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:::P.S. You can sign by typing four tildes: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>
 
::::Yes. That's what I mean.
 
::::Oh, and thanks for the tip! ^^
 
::::Anyway, do you know if Tolkien ever made a complete map like that? if so, I'd love to see it. For now, I think I'll keep the fanon version of Arda in my own augmented reality of it. -- [[User:Explorer of Arda|Explorer of Arda]] 19:16, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::The only thing closely resembling a map is a pencil sketch in ''[[The Shaping of Middle-earth]]''. The shapes of the continents are consistent with the map above, but it's a very rough sketch, nowhere near as detailed as the other maps. [[:Image:Arda001.gif|Here it is.]]
 
:::::Also, I deleted your image as it turns out it was already uploaded. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:26, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::That's fine. I've allready saved the image to my PC! ^^
 
::::::As for the pencil-map, I see that it must be from a time quite a while before the third age, since Beleraid is still there, the Sea of Helcar hasn't dried up yet and the Misty Mountains haven't formed yet. Harad, Hyemenor, Eastland and Aman are basically the same, though.
 
::::::You sea the mountain range running north-south east of the Sea of Helcar (the inland sea in the middle of Middle-Earth)? Those are the Red Mountains. East of that (apparently) lies Rómen and west of that lies what is to become the regions of Middle-Earth seen in The Lord of the Rings.
 
::::::The sea that separates Middle-Earth from Hyemenor (aka The Dark Land) is (apparently) called ''Enegaer'' (the "Inner Sea"), while the sea that separates Middle-Earth and Hyemanor from Eastland (the cresent-shaped continent to the far east) is called the "East Sea".
 
::::::Say, now that I come to think of it, does this site have pages on how the Misty Mountains were formed? Because (according to the map you provided) there was once a time when they didn't yet exist. -- [[User:Explorer of Arda|Explorer of Arda]] 19:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
The Misty Mountains were formed by Morgoth, hoping to delay the Elves on their great march West. That was after Aulë created all the other mountains. The map shows Arda at its creation. No other full world maps exist.
 
I know where the Orocarni are; it's just that Hyarmenor, Romen and Enegaer are unattested in Tolkien's own work. They're later fabrications by I don't know whom. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:44, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:Of course! *Facepalm* I knew that!
 
:Anyway, so Tolkien origionally left those regions unnamed? Did he atleast name the ''seas''? I know he atleast named the Outer and Great Seas, but I want to know if he also named The East and Inner Seas (the "Inner Sea" being Enegaer). -- [[User:Explorer of Arda|Explorer of Arda]] 19:57, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
::The East Sea is the sea between Harad and the Dark Land. The Sea between the Dark Land and the Walls of the Sun is not named. I can't find any indication that Tolkien came up with "Inner Sea" or "Enegaer". -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:05, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Ah. Guese the auther of the book I read (aswell as the map) realy ''did'' make stuff up. A shame, realy. It's also quite a shame that Tolkien never finished the naming prosses, but, meh, we can leave that to his decendants.
 
:::Well, that's all I need to know. Thanks! ^^ -- [[User:Explorer of Arda|Explorer of Arda]] 20:16, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
::::There's also a map in [[The Book of Lost Tales]] 1. But thats a verry old map, and not canon. The only place with isn't renamed is Cuivienen. However its fanon, it would be funny to read. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 18:20, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 
== 8000+ ==
 
Tomorrow or today we'll probably have 8000+ pages! Keep up the good administrative (and all other) work, Ederchil! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:54, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:You keep up the actual editing ;) -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:43, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 
yeah, we have 8000 articles. Hopely we once get bigger than the wookie-pedia, hopely it wouldn't be as much a mess as there. If I see that there, there is almost no canon there. They use books with are not of George Lucas, the inventor.  --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 18:23, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:The Expanded Universe is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is.
:WookieePedia has a lot more articles, and personal taste in canon aside, it is a well-kept wiki with lots of sysops and editors. It's even more bureaucratic than Wikipedia. Three seconds after some anon creates a new page, three editors have wookieefied it.
:This wiki still needs work, though. A lot of characters miss categories, sources, are straight rips from Wikipedia, need images, or otherwise a major update. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:30, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
::but its the expanded universum, expanded by other people. I think thats uncanon. I know its realy big, but your rigth I can't say how big it is. LOTR idem tito, however it is still smaller because the Tolkien Estate deosn't want more authors of the work, while George Lucas doesn't care. (or am I wrong?) --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 19:03, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 
== Idea ==
 
Maybe its a idea to add the voices of actors who speak memorable quotes (like "I see you" from Sauron) by adaptions. Or is that against fair use. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 18:26, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 
:I'm not sure I get what you mean. You mean sound files? They're okay, we already have some of those uploaded. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:32, 30 March 2010 (UTC)


==Categories==
Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].
Something which often confuses me when creating pages is that some categories have initial capitals on some words. For example, we have "Images of Authors", "Images of Merchandise"; but on the other hand we have "Images of books" and "Sindarin locations". By now I've memorized some of the variations (since "Images of Books", e.g., will yield a red link), but do we have a standard for how to write categories? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 08:48, 30 March 2010 (UTC)


:No, but we probably should. I favor the non-capital version if ti comes up for a vote. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
== Discussions ==
Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}


==Standards for bibliography==
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}


Where can I find the standards for how to write a bibliography on Tolkien Gateway? Thanks / --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:11, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
It should be mentioned in any way that  Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}


:There's not really a standard. I usually just use <br>
:It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
* Year: ''Title'' (editor or something)<br>
for books and <br>
* Year: ''Magazine Title'' #issue
** "Article"<br>
for articles. See [[Tom Shippey]] for a long example. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:17, 31 March 2010 (UTC)


==Spams==
Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}


That was quick! I thought the hour was late, but your eyes weren't far away! ;-) BTW, seems like the spammers are quite active right now, sometimes you feel like writing angry emails to the companies that hire spamming services (like the Bluemountain Trips, or whatever their names were). Cheers/--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:42, 16 April 2010 (UTC)


:Na, wasted effort. They won't listen. They're just a nuisance, as the links aren't picked up by search engines.
:I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)


:Just be glad neautograph hasn't popped up yet. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:48, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
== Complaint and Discussions ==


==Deletion request==
Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)


Is it possible for you to check the page "A Long Expected Party: MECCG Sites & Scenarios"? It's still left in Category:Books, but the page doesn't exist. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:52, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
:Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


:It's the ampersand problem again. Will check it out. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:56, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}


::Thank you! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:12, 24 May 2010 (UTC)


== Deleted question ==
:I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}


The question about the Angus McBride picture was because I wanted to know who else was in there besides Galadriel. I have never be able to figure it out, despite how much I read.  
Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}


Was my question wrongly put? Should I not ask such things?
:Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)


Thank you. - Kementari02
All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why?  {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}


:I've deleted so many things over the past few weeks that I can't quite remember what you're talking about. What image was this about? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:10, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
:I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)


::I assume you mean this pic: "Image:Angus McBride - Galadriel.gif"? If so, then it is a fanon scenario. You find a description of the other characters in the art/rpg book ''[[Angus McBride's Characters of Middle-earth]]'', published by MERP. (Maybe move this thread to the forum?) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:32, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}


Thank you. That answers my question. - Kementari02
== About my edit ==


==Writings, books, essays, etc.==
Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]


Ederchil, I've been examining the Cat:Writings, and it's quite difficult to know how to handle it. Right now, it contains anything written by JRRT which it's not published separately (in general). The idea of the category is of course good, but I find a couple of questions and thoughts:
Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
#Should the category only include JRRT material (the cat, e.g., included [[Epic Pooh]], although I recatted it to "Published articles" for the moment)?
#If not, do we need a "...by J.R.R. Tolkien" for every sub-cat? I guess the more TG expand, the more "writings" by other authors will need to be categorized.
#Perhaps we should state that the cat only contains writings which haven't appeared in a publication on their own (or published under their own title)?
#The head-cat for Cat:Writings should be Cat:Real-world, and perhaps stating in Cat:Publications that this category only contains media published separately with a title of their own (or something like that).
Thanks for you time/--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:41, 24 May 2010 (UTC)


:I'd go for "Published articles by J.R.R. Tolkien" as a sub cat. Re: 3, yes. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:50, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
:"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)


::I've been moving some book chapters from the head-category "Writings". However, as it's a big difference of the (related) chapters of, e.g., ''The Lord of the Rings'', and the chapters of, e.g., ''The History of Middle-earth books'' (as these often are a presentation of a single manuscript), I created the Cat:Manuscripts. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
== Battle under the Trees ==


==Books portal==
First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'
I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}


May I change the intro to "Welcome to the Books gateway, here you will find links and information relating to any and all publications relating to J.R.R. Tolkien and his works."? ''Books'' is too specific a word for all the info we've so far covered on Tolkien Gateway. I thought I'd ask first since it's one of the main pages of TG --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:48, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
:I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)


:Go ahead. I hope it fits on the line. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:01, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)


==Talk:Tar-Elendil==
OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)
Is there a way to lock [[:Talk:Tar-Elendil]] from being edited? It appears it has been the target of a spam bot. --[[User:Pinkkeith|Pinkkeith]] 19:09, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


:When the spamming first started, I protected all spammed pages and blocked all spammers, but that didn't seem to help much. It merely shifted the spam to other pages. I'd rather have them make a useless talk page 7 times a day than having to revert or delete higher profile pages. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:52, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
== What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==


==Youtube==
No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image
I noticed that the <nowiki><youtube></nowiki> command is either bugged or taken out. If it has been taken out could you let me know, please? I can remove it from some of the LOTRO articles. Thanks. --[[User:Pinkkeith|Pinkkeith]] 19:09, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


:Yeah, it's a problem on more wiki's. For now, I think it's best to just put the video's between <nowiki><!-- --></nowiki> tags, so it'll be easier to revert once it works again. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:52, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)


== Concerning S.R.T.O. d'Ardenne ==
:All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)


"S.R.T.O." seems to be the name she used most, and by which is referred to in scholarly books (like J.R.R. Tolkien, we don't write John Tolkien). --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:55, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
::On a second thought, "Simonne d'Ardenne" is used both in ''The Tolkien Family Album'', and by Johan Vanhecke in "Tolkien and Belgium" in ''Lembas Extra: Proceedings of the 5th Unquendor Lustrum''. I'll create a new page and redirect "S.R.T.O. d'Ardenne".--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:57, 31 May 2010 (UTC)


== Dates and Rock-roses ==
::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}


Hello Ederchil; two quick things:-


#What are [[Rock-roses]]? (I see you added them to [[Rose (disambiguation)]] yet I have no idea what they are.)
:::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
#I've just made [[Template:SR]]; I was wondering whether you thought it was worthwhile changing it (or making a separate template) so that is displays converted dates, rather than simply linking to them, as well? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:07, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


:# "yellow rock-roses" are mentioned in "[[Out of the Frying-Pan into the Fire]]". See also [[wikipedia:Cistaceae|here]].
::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
:# I like the template. I think something along the lines of "[[Shire Reckoning|S.R.]] [[Third Age 3000|1400]] ({{TA|3000}})" could work. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


::# A-ha! Thanks.
:::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
::# Thanks - hopefully it will save people having to (sometimes incorrectly) calculate dates themselves. Couldn't doing that get a bit messy, though? I think that could look very untidy, particularly in infoboxes. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:21, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
::::2. I think it would look better in infoboxes, but not in situations like [[Rose (disambiguation)|these]], so I now favour the short version. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:04, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:36, 27 May 2017

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Welcome to Ederchil's talk page.

Archive

January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008
January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009
January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010
February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011
February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013
February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016

2017

Discussion

Hello.I would like to discuss about something here.

Discussions

Let's talk about it here, here and here.Unsigned comment by 2.86.255.128 (talk).

I would like to be discussed something generally.Read here.Unsigned comment by 2.86.255.128 (talk).

It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. Unsigned comment by 2.86.255.128 (talk).

It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). Unsigned comment by 2.86.255.128 (talk).


I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Complaint and Discussions

Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--2.86.255.128 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? Unsigned comment by 2.86.255.128 (talk).


I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. Unsigned comment by 2.86.255.128 (talk).

Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:Talk:Tauriel)? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? Unsigned comment by 2.86.255.128 (talk).

Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? Unsigned comment by 2.86.255.128 (talk).

I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. Unsigned comment by 2.86.255.128 (talk).

About my edit

Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle (A screenshot of the wraith in question)

Not complaining about anything here, just asking--LordAndSaviourSauron 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--LordAndSaviourSauron 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Battle under the Trees

First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.' I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. Unsigned comment by Hazad (talk • contribs).

I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' thoughts on the subject. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the history section of Mirkwood. --Morgan 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)

What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image?

No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image

As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--LordAndSaviourSauron 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--LordAndSaviourSauron 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And the other two images? what was wrong with those? Unsigned comment by LordAndSaviourSauron (talk • contribs).


Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--LordAndSaviourSauron 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]