Tolkien Gateway

User talk:Ederchil

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:Ja, de Cor Blokjes. Thanks, will check when at home. Ropewalk = Lijnbaan? Grappig, Lijnbaan is een straat in mijn geboortedorp, vroeg me altijd al af... -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:09, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
:Ja, de Cor Blokjes. Thanks, will check when at home. Ropewalk = Lijnbaan? Grappig, Lijnbaan is een straat in mijn geboortedorp, vroeg me altijd al af... -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:09, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
== Games ==
You asked in the meeting whether or not Games should be under Adaptations, and am wondering whether or not you would like to move on that.  Information is first and foremost obviously, but images, categorization, and infoboxes also need to implemenetd. Im willing to work on it either way, I just would like some feedback/advice on what is to be done with it.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:39, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

Revision as of 20:39, 18 August 2008

Ederchil, welcome!

Hello and welcome to Tolkien Gateway. I hope you like the place and choose to join our work. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and we look forward to your future edits. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the Council forums or ask me on my talk page. Keep up the great work! — Hyarion

Contents antwoord

Niet ver van uw domicilie; 'k kom bij tijd en wijle wel in Grunn' :-) ~ Earendilyon 14:57, 21 January 2008 (EST)

'k Hoop niet dat je te veel verwacht van dat schotschrift van Uyldert. 't Is om te huilen! ~ Earendilyon 16:34, 6 March 2008 (EST)
'k Kan me niet herinneren, dat ik em gezien heb, toen ik er laatst was, maar 'k zag wel vlekken voor de ogen, toen ik bij de Tolkienia stond! ~ Earendilyon 12:30, 7 March 2008 (EST)


Hey there Ederchil, I just thought I'd let you know about the IRC chat, feel free to join if you ever feel like it, there's at least a couple members (Ardamir, Halion, Mith, myself) or wiki editors usually on. We're hoping soon there will be enough interest so we can setup weekly meetings to discuss the wiki. --Hyarion 17:26, 27 January 2008 (EST)

I'm not really a chatter, but I'll try and figure it out. -- Ederchil 09:07, 28 January 2008 (EST)


You've been doing a great job with the year articles, they're looking so much better now. One thing that's been on my mind is how we can store the data more efficiently. For instance I've started creating articles such as January 1 which will list all the events that have ocurred on January 1st both on Earth and on Arda. Then we can include these articles into the Main Page to see what happened today. I haven't quite figured out the best layout for the page, since we'll want to easily include these. Also, I think we can probably be more specific as to what the Fellowship of the Ring was doing on that day. Like if there isn't any specific event on that day, we can just say they were traveling from X to X or something.

For now I guess we'll just have to manually type things in both year and day articles, but in the future it would be nice if we could type up the event in one location and the other articles include that data somehow, I haven't figured out how to get that to work yet. It would be nice if we could display events by type too, like publication, birth, death, etc. Just thought I'd let you know what's going through my head :) --Hyarion 17:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)

I had a similar thing in my head :). I planned to propose such a thing after I've finished the year-articles (long way from finished, still got 1921-1970 to go). -- Ederchil 03:29, 29 January 2008 (EST)
Okay, checked it out. We need a disambig on May, though. Now it leads to the Hobbit. Maybe make the titles May (month) and so for every month? And perhaps a subheader, "In the Calendar of Imladris/Shire Calendar/King's Reckoning etcetera, it is bla bla bla". -- Ederchil

About the Lorien Elves source

You asked about a source for the Lorien Elves in the Fall of Fornost page, and I have an answer. In Appendix A, page 1016 it says that Elrond brought Elves from Lorien to help fight Angmar. Even if this was a hundred years before Fornost's fall, they were probably still aiding in the fight with the other Elf-realms and Arnor by the time Fornost fell. --Dwarf Lord 14:21, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Okay. Just wondering. Maybe it's better if you cite the sources too, it just looks a bit more encyclopedic. -- Ederchil 16:42, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

I do when I remember lol. --Dwarf Lord 18:09, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

New Skin

Hey there Ederchil. I was just wondering what your thoughts were on the new skin. The only thing I'm a little concerned about is the light blue background makes the text somewhat hard to read. Would you prefer keeping the content inside of a white box to look more like the Main Page? If you have any other suggestions just let me know, I'd also like to change the color scheme of the main page, as well as the featured article/quote/etc when we launch the new skin, kind of a Tolkien Gateway 3.0. I'm hoping to make the switch soon, I just want to make sure the majority of people see it as an improvement. --Hyarion 17:42, 14 April 2008 (EDT)


Oh yes, the castles are very nice, which of them did you visit? Augustusburg or Falkenlust?

The big one. Don't remember what it was called. -- Ederchil 09:23, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

Augustusburg. But at the moment the terrace of the gardenside is a building lot, it doesn't look very nice. --Sigismond 09:53, 21 April 2008 (EDT)


Hey, thanks for help with those edits on the rose cotton page. i had family over, screaming cousins and all that, couldnt really pay attention.--Quidon88 12:47, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Hey, sorry about that, no, i was playing trivia on irc, sorry about that, im done multi tasking.--Quidon88 16:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

Stephen White

I know how you feel- 41 links! The way i figured it out was on user:smeagol's discussion page, hyarion asked him how he wanted to be credited as the artist of all those pictures, so I just redirected it to user:smeagol(as you can no doubt tell, dont know why I'm explaining it, just rambling I guess). And while I got you here, I was wondering if you'd like to join us in the chatrooms, its far easier to get a question on there, as hyarion, myself, and a lot of the other more frequent editors are almost always on there. Hyarion has even been trying to set up TG meetings, which youd be more than welcome to join in on. If it is about your internet connection, don't worry about that, i had slow dial-up for ages before finally getting hi-speed internet and was able to use the java clients with ease. Anyway, thats how I solved that problem, and I hope you join us soon.--Quidon88 11:50, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

My internet's good - in fact, it's the envy of this house because I'm the closest of six d-links to the transmitter-watchamacallit, almost rocksteady at 54 mb/s. I've tried the chatroom a couple of times, but it doesn't always work. And when I'm in, there's nobody home. Probably because there's half a globe between me and Hyarion. I'll try it now. Okay. I'm in. Never been this in before, to be fair. -- Ederchil 13:02, 29 April 2008 (EDT)


Hey, hmmm... I looked it up and in the online dictionary was the entry to unify sth. = etw. vereinheitlichen. I want to say, that Carroux doesn't transfer the different levels of language, used by the characters very good in her translation. I'm sorry, if my English isn't every time so good, I mean for me it is a foreign language.

Maybe to standardise is a better verb? --Sigismond 11:35, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Simplify? -- Ederchil 12:28, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

I think to standardise is the right word for my intended meaning. --Sigismond 12:54, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Redirections of alternative names

Goeienavond, Ederchil!

I notice you have recently been redirecting some new lemmata[1][2] on alternative (or rejected) names to the commonly used names. I have no problem with that (but remember this, Zigil-nâd might have some etymology). However, the lemmata to which you've been redirecting don't mention the alternative name at all, so that any reader who is no expert will only wonder why he has been redirected, and will be none the wiser on the alternative name. So I have taken the liberty of incorporating the minimally necessary information you threw out on redirection to the main lemmata in question. I've also added talk to both pages based on your diff comments.

Maybe in future it would be better to make sure the redirected name is actually mentioned in the article redirected to.

Hoop dat je je daarin kunt vinden. -- Mithrennaith 12:43, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

Mee eens; Zigil-nâd is, zeker ten aanzien van de Zirak/Zigil discussie, het invoegen waard. Maar ik wil er op wijzen dat Telperossë nergens in de boeken voorkomt (het zou bovendien *Tyelperossë of *Tyeleprossë moeten zijn), zelfs niet in The Problem of Ros. Ik heb het bovendien gegoogled; een fanfic-personage, verder niets.
Oh, stik. In English: Yes, agree. Considering the Zirak/zigil discussion (not really well covered here, tbf) it is wirth inclusion. Telperossë (incorrect Q form) is however nothing more than a fanfic character; it does not appear in Tolkien's writings, not even The Problem of Ros. -- Ederchil 14:04, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
Wat mij betreft kan Telperossë dan weg.
If you want to remove Telperossë from the Celebros info box and nominate the redirected lemma for deletion, go ahead, and I'll support you.
I've meanwhile put Ramas Echor[1] through the same treatment - put the good bits of what 'Arwen Legolas Wilson' wrote in Rammas Echor, put my reasons for not including the rest in the Talk there, and proposed the typo for speedy deletion. -- Mithrennaith 17:03, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
Gezelli hoor, Nederlanders onder elkaar ;-)
Mith wrote: nominate the redirected lemma for deletion. I'd rather say: don't delete the redirected lemma, but rewrite it in stating that Telperossë is a fanfic name and not to be found in Tolkien's works. ~ Earendilyon 03:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
Gezelli zeker. Ik heb Telperossë niet teruggevonden als naam voor de rivier, maar voor een personage in een fanfic. -- Ederchil 03:35, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
Maybe one fanfic reference is indeed a bit too shallow to base a lemma on. ~ Earendilyon 03:44, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
I'm in favour of deletion, then. -- Mithrennaith 10:53, 21 May 2008 (EDT)


Greetings, my fellow senior editor. I want to thank you for all you do and supporting our first FA since well, the FA. As the ramrod behind the new process, though I feel I have to tell you the truth. We really can't encourage self-nomination, which is self-promotion. The article has all the parts required, but it is rather short. I've been watching, and it isn't gathering any support. I not going to vote against it, but you should consider withdrawing this nomination for the time being. I have another article in mind that is a stronger candidate.--Theoden1 19:19, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

I know it isn't very long... but featured doesn't mean long, it means good. Glamdring is obviously not the best - I don't even like it yet. I'm still waiting on some sources to come in, and the "fate" section could do with some expansion (though it's going to be tricky to find other theories on the matter). Maybe the nomination was a bit premature?
If the other article is Witch-king of Angmar, that one has my vote on it. TBF, I prefer it over Aragorn. But we need to create a pool of FA's, which don't necessarily need to be articles about major characters. Since we are an all-things-to-do-with-Tolkien encyclopedia, that could (should?) be reflected in FA's. -- Ederchil 02:56, 5 June 2008 (EDT)


Greetings and thank you for the welcome message!

I checked the "To-Do list" and this came to my atention:

"Decide on a slogan for And maybe a new title? Tolkien Times?"

How about bringing some news into TolkienNews? :) Tolkien Times sounds good, but the last article there is from December2007. If updated more often, I think the site would be awesome, since it's one of the few (on Tolkien) who have RSS News Feed (basically it's TolkienNews, TheOneRing and Elfenomeno who are accurate and have least that's what I've found so far).

All the best! :)


For everything admin-like, check Hyarion. My bad that your welcome message links here. As for Tolkiennews, it's undergoing renovation. I think.
So, ask Hyarion. He's in charge, he usually does the welcoming. Take in mind that he lives in California, so don't expect an immediate answer. -- Ederchil 05:51, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

I wrote to Hyarion about it. Also, thank you for correcting my article and specifying the translation of Ingoldo.
Þelma 12:11, 14 June 2008 (EDT)


Houston, we have a problem.

I did the redirection of the Meneldur page towards the Tar-Meneldur page...and it first looked like this :

From Tolkien Gateway Redirect page

  1. REDIRECT Tar-Meneldur

BUT! When typing 'Meneldur' on 'Search', it leads me to the OLD Meneldur page, instead of Tar-Meneldur. Methinks I'm not doing this right. So pretty please, can you do it? ~~ Þelma 07:04, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

Hmm. Works fine for me. -- Ederchil 12:47, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
Now works for me too...Weird. Anyways, good thing that it finally works. ~~ Þelma 12:53, 13 July 2008 (EDT)


Now, I know you're a knowledgeable guy, but you could at least let the ink dry on the Second Battle of Dagorlad before you jumped on it. It's only a stub, dude. Hold your fire for a little while during construction, OK?--Theoden1 15:43, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

Sorry. I'm feeling a bit impatient today. And maybe a bit bossy. It's all yours. -- Ederchil 15:49, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

Annatar and Glorfindel

Hello :) I hope it's alright to put this here. I just wanted to thank you for the Annatar edit, the page looks much better now! The Glorfindel drawing you mentioned, is it this one? If so, please feel free to take it if you can use it somewhere. :) xx -- Bohwe 16:13, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Hey, just a little question, is that new Glorfindel pic really better than the old old one at ?Ælfwine228 18:28, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

The old one was from Battle for Middle-earth II. I thought it looked better at the adaptations section (where it is now), since it shows the silver hair. -- Ederchil 02:38, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Tale of Years

Thanks for the input. Although I have tried to compile timelines, I never boethered noting down the inconsistencies. Do you have in hand any such notes? Sage 04:58, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

I have... it's called The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion. It details all incosistencies, and mentions which one got corrected in the 50th anniversary edition (all of them, actually). -- Ederchil 04:59, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

in-universe and out-of-universe

Hi again, I don't know if you are an admin or something but you really know what happens around here, so I decided to msg you personally.

I hope you understand what the title means. They are terms not used in Tolkienology or Tolkien Studies but it helps clear up some things. It is a policy seen in other fiction wikis, such as Wookieepedia. The policy goes that real-world references aka "oou" are prohibited in an main article, and the text goes from the "iu" point of view, which regards the events as real. "oou" analyses and backgrounds are reserved for a separate section of the article, usually called 'Behind the scenes'.

I am not sure if there is such a guideline here, and many articles mention Tolkien, the works' names, or the movies and actors in the bulk of the text, or regard the descriptions as fictional. They also mention the movies appearances directly (see the Oliphaunts article history before I cleaned it up). So I just wanted to ask. Is there such a guideline? Does anybody thing it should be followed? Are the oou references tolerated, or should we clean them up? If no such policy has been considered in the rules and guidelines, perhaps it would be useful for uniformity? Sage 04:43, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

First, I'm not an admin. Hyarion is the only admin here.
As for guidelines, we have one big difference from Wookieepedia: we can't call it "behind the scenes". For development of a character, "Other versions of the Legendarium" is usually the header, though our guidelines are grey. You can call it "Inspiration" or "Development" too. For "Etymology" and "Portrayal in adaptations", basically a mix between story and "behind the scenes". Oh, and please do'nt edit Oliphaunts, I'm redoing Portrayal.
As for uniformity, it's one of my wishes. But this wiki has for a long time not had good quality control, so there are many wikirips, bad layouts, random added sentences, people who don't know the guidelines, et cetera. -- Ederchil 05:01, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
I understood that 'properly' the oou references go to those sections you mentioned (no, I didn't ask to make use of the BtS name :)). I wondered whether this would be 'obligatory' so to say for or the articles, if there is a consensus to fix all those problems you mentioned... create such a guideline, and fix existing articles, or whether the non-uniformity should be tolerated. Sage 05:20, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
That's something to discuss with Hyarion. He's coming back today, so that wouldn't be a problem. I really want to extend the guidelines, but retroactively enforcing them will be much work. I usually check all recent changes to see if there's something wrong layout-wise, but that's only the tip of the iceberg. For example, many articles in Category:Constellations were written by someone over at KontuWiki, our Finnish sister-site, and it uses their layout and reference system. I redid some of them, but there's still work to do. -- Ederchil 05:32, 4 August 2008 (EDT)


Hi, Ederchil! Congratulations on your admin nomination, I've given you my support, just make sure you accept the nomination!-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  17:56, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

You had better accept it, after I broke all this new ice to make it. It's time to put the laurel wreath on your head. Just watch out for any guys named Brutus, OK?--Theoden1 19:03, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
Done. -- Ederchil 02:33, 7 August 2008 (EDT)


Hi Ederchil ! I just wanted to draw your attention to here. We are currently discussing the idea of a weekly site meeting. Thanks!-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  18:11, 7 August 2008 (EDT)


Well, her father was Lord of Dor-lómin, her mother was Lady of Dor-lómin, her brother was Prince of Dor-lómin. That's why the princess title, which would come in naturally. I'm not saying she was called, I'm saying if her brother was a prince, what makes her? Anyways, you open the book and clarify that. :) All that I wrote for this line I wrote from memory :) ~~ Þelma 09:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

I see the title "Prince" pop up everywhere. Maybe we need an article for it? (Wookieepedia has one) What does the title mean in every culture, who were princes/princesses, what power did they have, et cetera.
I think it's a great idea. And I also think it would require a lot of work, since it's synthesis at its best. Myself I've been trying to find a way to write an article for Queen of the Noldor (since it pop-ed up in Míriel Þerindë's box), though I'm still debating on whether it should be created in the first place or what should it contain. So,if we have articles for Kings and Queens of the Númenóreans, with listings and everything, it would come natural to have those kind of articles for other races, or all races combined, describing the title itself. Dunno, these are my thoughts on it. ~~ Þelma 10:14, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
I have the Sil, Hobbit and LotR in PDF, so Ctrl+F "prince" really speeds things up. Too bad I don't have UT. That wil be simple grunt-work. -- Ederchil 10:40, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
I can send that to you, when we'll meet on the IRC at one of those already famous weekly meetings :p. If that can be done, ofc. I have only used the IRC once in my life, and that was when I installed to talk to Hyarion, so dunno yet what can or cannot be done with it. ~~ Þelma 11:08, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
AFAIK, you can do little with it other than chatting. Attachments would be snailmail, I fear. -- Ederchil 15:39, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
As long as you guys are using a real IRC client such as XChat or mIRC then you can easily transfer files, however the Java client doesn't offer such functionality. --Hyarion 17:44, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
I don't know whether this is the right place to go on about the use of the title, but I can't locate anything this is supposed to be the answer to - I assume, however, that this was originally about calling Nienor "princess of Dor-Lómin". Well, I don't think that will do, actually.
As far as I know, Túrin was never called Prince of Dor-Lómin (please point out the place if I'm wrong!). Húrin was Lord of Dor-Lómin, and so Morwen his wife was Lady of Dor-Lómin, but such a territorial lordship would not give their children the title of Lord or Lady. Actually, Túrin is described as the "Heir of Dor-Lómin", presumably used as abbreviation of 'heir-apparent', being the (only) son of the Lord. But he never even became Lord, as he never actually succeeded his father, predeceasing him.
Nowhere in this is there any ground for giving Nienor the title of 'Lady', let alone 'Princess'! -- Mithrennaith 00:04, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

I don't argue about the "Prince"/"Princess" title, though I am pretty sure it was not placed there for no reason. It must have apeared somewhere in the Narn at one point. However, until I will find it, I accept your "demonstration" that he was not prince.
As for what titles should receive the children of a Lady and Lord...I wonder what makes you so sure, exclamation points and everything. Not only do I find the judgement a bit incorrect, but also if you read the chapter "The Return of Túrin to Dor-lómin" you will see that Túrin is called "Lord of Dor-Lómin" like 10 times, by himself and by various other people. In fact, he is called Lord in other places and other people not replated to Dor-lómin, like Dorlas in the chapter "The Coming of Glaurung". More so, Nienor is called many times Lady Niniel in the chapter "The Death of Glaurung". I think that's title enough. ~~ Þelma 01:35, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

Unquendor's emblem

Good call, that one. I will add Unquendor's emblem (logo is technically the wrong description, I once learned from a graphic designer) when next month's AGM will have settled definitively how it should (and may) look! :) -- Mithrennaith 23:38, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

The Netherlands

Bit of useless trivia learned during a university course of 'Legal English': "The Netherlands", with capital T, is the official spelling of the English name of our country, since the article is actually an indispensible part of the name. I give it for what it's worth. ;) -- Mithrennaith 23:38, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

Revisions of LotR translations

Actually, your 1973 'Cor Blokjes' have the unrevised translation - the first revision came 1980. But there were two rounds of corrections in 1965 and 1968/67 before the first revision (no one seems to know about that second correction, it was done surreptitiously, but it changed e.g. the infamous 'touwbrug' into the correct 'lijnbaan' in Chapter 4 I). Incidentally, distinguishing 'corrections' and 'revisions' is my own decision, but I think a defensible one, seeing that the revisions each have their own dated 'Translator's Note' and are called 'herziene vertaling' by the publisher, the corrections have no Note and the 1965 one is called 'herziene druk' by Het Spectrum (and they never identified the 1968/67 one explicitly). Apologies for being a bit pedantic about this, but Het Spectrum and successors made such a mess of things that extra thought and care has to go into proper description of all the different versions. Johan Vanhecke and Pieter Collier's bibliography is a great help and a first standard, but I've been promising them a load of small and some big corrections for two years now - still working on them, I'm afraid. :( -- Mithrennaith 23:38, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

Ja, de Cor Blokjes. Thanks, will check when at home. Ropewalk = Lijnbaan? Grappig, Lijnbaan is een straat in mijn geboortedorp, vroeg me altijd al af... -- Ederchil 03:09, 18 August 2008 (EDT)


You asked in the meeting whether or not Games should be under Adaptations, and am wondering whether or not you would like to move on that. Information is first and foremost obviously, but images, categorization, and infoboxes also need to implemenetd. Im willing to work on it either way, I just would like some feedback/advice on what is to be done with it.--Quidon88 16:39, 18 August 2008 (EDT)