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User talk:Ederchil

Revision as of 19:40, 29 March 2010 by Explorer of Arda (Talk | contribs)
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Welcome to Ederchil's talk page.



January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008
January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009


My Bot

Hi Ederchil, is it possible you could add User:Mithbot to the bot usergroup (no idea why that's a redlinks: it works for me) so I can do some menial and boring tasks quickly? Thanks, --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:50, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm only a sysop, not a bureaucrat, so I can't change user group rights. You could PM or email Hyarion for this. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:50, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Oh, OK, I thought you were (wishful thinking!). Thanks anyway! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:57, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I thought I was too :) -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 22:21, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Main page spelling mistake

Hello - while using this wiki, I noticed that main page's featured article has a spelling mistake. It should be borne not born in the sentence "Glamdring was the sword once born by Turgon, King of Gondolin." I can't edit the page! :) Darth Newdar 17:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:40, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The Peril to the Shire page

Just wanted to know why you keep editing the page I'm building on "The Peril to the Shire". I worked rather hard on it, yet you keep re-arranging and deleting stuff. It would be nice if you asked first, or at least let me know what you are up to.

Doug Dunklin, producer/director of "The Peril to the Shire" "Ltcdunk 20:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)"

I figured you were involved in production. First of all, thank you for contributing.
I basically rearranged a lot to make it fit our Manual of Style and deleted a lot because it was (in my eyes) repetition. Also, a lot of text in long sentences does not improve readability, and detracts attention from your own website (we don't want to be too complete now, do we?). --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

An image page won't load

I was trying to load the entry page for Image:Middle-earth (large).jpg, and all I get from the server is an empty page. I reloaded repeatedly, and I still get an empty page. I tried other images in the category I found it in, and many other pages load fine. But this page won't. A couple others won't too—I suspect that the large file size may have something to do with it, but that's just a guess. Maybe the server is failing to generate a thumbnail for images that size? I just don't know. - Gilgamesh 17:07, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm not really having trouble with the image itself, but I think you're referring to MERP: Middle-earth Role Playing Poster Maps, the page on which it is embedded. I have the same issue. I managed to sneak into the history via Morgan's contributions and removed the image (resizing it gave problems again). -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:50, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Now an entire category page won't load, and I didn't exactly embed images into the page body either. o.o Category:Maps of Minas Tirith. It displayed mostly alright after I created it, but now the category page is just a white blank, like some of the image pages. Is it possible that MediaWiki or one of its backend programs is running out of memory? Or another kind of error? How do we fix this kind of thing? - Gilgamesh 09:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Apparently a new image problem, "Error creating thumbnail: Invalid thumbnail parameters". Don't know about the category. i'll see if I can email Hyarion about this. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 14:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
I've seen that problem before, on Wikia. The problem is, an image has too many millions of pixels to buffer into memory to create a thumbnail. It doesn't matter if the file itself is small—if it has very large dimensions, the thumbnail backend software runs out of memory trying to generate a thumbnail for it. This can be fixed by increasing the amount of memory it's permitted to allocate, if that is possible. I've been thinking that memory increase may greatly benefit the particular Tolkien interest that involves very highly-detailed maps, as Tolkien is full of those. Either that or we split up some of the largest images into multiple segmented image files. That'll be easy for PNGs, but not for JPEGs. Recently I uploaded some very large maps, including one of Middle-earth (Role-playing Game canon, I think), and another absolutely gorgeous non-canon map of Minas Tirith (which may have been involved in making that category page show blank). It would be a shame if those couldn't be displayed. - Gilgamesh 14:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Image:Minas Anor 2000.jpg‎ is the new Minas Tirith map I uploaded. (It's fantastic, don't you think?) It's the only Minas Tirith image of the new maps I recently uploaded, and it almost certainly is related to the page Category:Maps of Minas Tirith showing blank now.
Honestly, Tolkien wiki has hundreds of wonderful maps, and it would be in our interests to be able to display all of them, even the very large files or the images of very large dimensions. - Gilgamesh 15:01, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Anna Lee

Sorry about the peacock-term "beautiful". - Gilgamesh 15:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

No problem. Though I do agree, it's just not encyclopedic. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

On the future of dictionary-style entries

There has been a recent heavy debate on this at Forum:Quenya declension template appearance. Since you have weighed on this before, could you weigh in now? I originally went ahead with this project after asking about it, and you seemed to approve. To be honest, my concern is mainly linguistic and grammatical, and I didn't want to get so involved in a debate about whether linguistics on this wiki are at all even noteworthy. - Gilgamesh 01:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, my attention tends to drop away with long paragraphs and no images :), so I didn't respond. Will do now. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 13:54, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for your feedback. You always seem like a gentle voice of wisdom here and I appreciate it. - Gilgamesh 18:11, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Withdrawing inflection templates

Considering the highly-controversial and sometimes flame-war-bait nature of trying to fully inflect Tolkien's languages in this wiki, I want to withdraw the entire inflection project. But I'm not sure how to do it. I think it would involve deleting all the embedded templates and "Inflection" sections. But considering the heavy time and energy I put into it all, it may take about as much just to remove them. I just don't know how to get it done quickly. But I want to get this all behind me and away from this controversy. And I swear, swear, swear that I didn't have a clue about the vs. Ardalambion controversies, etc. My primary source of all data was Ardalambion and closely associated sites. I didn't know there was such a heated holy war involved in the issue. I think I would generally agree with Ardalambion ('s FAQs sound really stuck-up to my inner anti-copyright liberal socialistic streak), but I don't want to be on the front lines of this—I don't want to be confrontational, not on purpose. I'd rather practice the fan-standardized aspects of the languages in my private user pages or other informal venues, and only practice harder data in the articles. Ederchil, please help me. Are there any more powerful wiki tools (bots, etc.) we can use to clean this up? I have to make this right. - Gilgamesh 05:12, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

It's a pity, because you've certainly put lots of time in the process. But you could blame us in a way; we should've responded earlier.
We do have bots, though I fear this kind of job would have to be done by hand. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 08:15, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Ouch. Well, at least they're all marked with "inflection" (an easily searchable word), and the templates are currently hidden from display (but near "inflection" making them easy to edit). I suppose this is a job that could be done gradually over time...if everyone pitched in, I mean. It's just...well...I want to get past the issue, very much so. I want to get past potential future forum postings of "what are all these invisible templates and why are they all over the place"? I cringe thinking of that. And I feel like having a wikistress attack when I search "inflection" and see hundreds of results that are all my work. I wish there were an easier way through this. - Gilgamesh 09:21, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I just removed one search page's worth. About 19 or 20. And then I clicked "500", and it refreshed the first page, and...there are more than 500. How on earth did I embed so many in seemingly such a short time? I've ruined your wiki. :( - Gilgamesh 09:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

It's not mine, so it's okay :). I'll see if I can do some of them. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I know you don't own it, but you are a sysadmin. It's practically yours. You have so much work to do here as it is, and I'm certainly no help. I mean, I do...maybe...IPA, categories, userboxes, navboxes... ...oh. Well, I guess I've done something. And then I filled half the wiki with controversial inflections. I have this feeling like I'm a small child who's been caught covering the walls of an entire house with crayon. This all would be hilarious if it weren't all so...inconveniencing to people. XD - Gilgamesh 10:34, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I've removed some more inflections (a few dozen, maybe), and now there are less than 500 articles with the word "inflection" in them. I've been working from the opposite end of the search results, so that I wouldn't step on your toes in case you were working from the top of the list. - Gilgamesh 21:45, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I just want to apologise. I didn't intend for all of these to be removed in their entirety, there was definitely something there worth having, just probably not in its current appearance or scale. Does that make sense? I am sorry, though, you've felt the need to remove the lot.
If Mithbot had been approved by Hyarion (where is he?!) I would get it to do all this work on (y)our behalf. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:21, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Since Hyarion finished school and has a job, he has found himself having less and less time for the internet.
I think it's better to do it manually, actually, because it also gives you the opportunity to clean the articles up a bit. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:28, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
It won't be a complete loss. Once all the templates are removed, someone can go back and make a brief note about Quenya nouns' stem forms and Sindarin nouns' special conditions (like whether a noun that begins with b/d/g mutates like b/d/g or like mb/nd/ng), and also notes regarding Sindarin plurals and Quenya irregular plurals (that may have just been fickle because of Tolkien changing his mind at least once). Then, if you believe in regular rules, you can read them and ascertain inflections for yourself.
Anyway, Mith, I'm also sorry for grating on your nerves before. You can read my final explanation on my chronically abnormal way of communication at the forum post where we did most of our talking. I'm always going to be very strange to talk to, and I don't want you grated or anything (I never did in the first place), but I'm hoping you can at least acclimate to it and see my good faith, even if most times I have no common sense.
And if you need your bot approved, and Hyarion is not available to provide approval, then does anyone (perhaps Ederchil) have the authority to (at least tentatively) approve it? - Gilgamesh 18:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Nope. I'm not a bureaucrat. See above. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:37, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Mith, you don't have to have your bot user made into an official bot for it to work; the only thing it will do is hide the bot's edits from the recent changes page - so if the other contributors don't mind it clogging up the recent changes page, I'm sure you could use it. ;) -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  11:34, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

MediaWiki memory limit

I read on various MediaWiki support sites that the reason categories and image pages with very large images (in file size or dimensions) show a blank page is because of a PHP error caused by running out of memory. Since Tolkien Gateway is never going to have a shortage of highly-detailed high-resolution maps, is it possible we could ask Hyarion to increase the wiki's memory limit? Perhaps to 64MB or more? - Gilgamesh 05:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't know yet when I'll mail him, but I'll ask him. You can also mail him yourself, of course :). -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 08:46, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
I didn't know how to contact him. Besides, he and I have never been acquainted in a wiki-working interaction. I'd be a stranger who was feature-begging. - Gilgamesh 20:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
I have so much free time now (a cold took my voice away and a sprained ankle) that I keep forgetting to mail him. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 22:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Main Page

Hi, could you make another article the next improvement drive article? I think Barad-dûr has improved quite much and although the "Portrayal in adaptations" section lacks some information about the earlier films I think that we should take the next article on the Main Page. What do you think? A few suggestions: Angband, Battle of Dagorlad, Bywater, Dale, Glaurung, Peter Jackson, Mount Doom, Treebeard, Tuor -- Eldarion Telcontar 23:23, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I've been meaning to do the Adaptations section but I keep forgetting. Since I only now realize I'm already already half an hour into Sunday, let me just say I'll do it this afternoon.
As for the new one, my vote's for Tuor. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 23:27, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
I was just about to suggest Tuor! Great minds... --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 00:13, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
Great! Then let's take Tuor. -- Eldarion Telcontar 08:49, 7 March 2010 (UTC)



Ringen is a LOTR-game. So maybe the link has to stay on the games-year article.

--Amroth 17:13, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Already reverted it. I'm busy cleaning everything up. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:14, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
okay, I'm adding the game called Shadowfax here. --Amroth 17:15, 21 March 2010 (UTC)


How can you upload .mp3, because I tried to upload a mp3-file and didn't work, it said it was the wrong file.

En zou de grootte van het bestand kunnen verhoogd, voor een dag ofzo. Dan kan ik een paar liedjes van Blind Guardian uploaden zodat ze gelijk te beluisteren zijn. --Amroth 14:00, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Hele liedjes is geen fair use. .ogg en .mp3 zouden gewoon moeten werken - er staan er al heel wat op de wiki. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 14:10, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

My Source

Ok, you recently sent me a message explaining why you deleted (not very grateful about that) the pages I wrote.

Well, my source is a book I checked out a few weeks ago (before I discovered this site) called something like "Tolkien's World". It explained the history of Arda, but was not writen by any member of the Tolkien family, but by a close "associate", so I don't know how accurate it is.

The pages I wrote is based on a series of maps within the books, the first being a complete map of Arda, witch was divided into four continents: Aman, Hyarmenor, Middle-Earth and Eastland. Middle-Earth was inturn divided into Endor (the northern half) and Harad (the southern half).

After that map, there were five more maps - one of Aman, Hyarmenor, Eastland, Endor and Harad. The map of Endor realy grabbed my attention, because is showed the region of Middle-Earth (in detail!) east of Rhûn. Apparently, Rhûn goes on untill the Red Mountains (labelled "Orocarni") and an unnamed river that flows north-south from there down into the Enegaer (Inner Sea - can not believe that this site does not name it). This region is labelled "Rómen" (with "The East Lands" writen below in brackets - should not be confused with the continent "Eastland"). The region of Rohan, Rhûn and Rhovanion (everything between the Misty (I think) and Red Mountains) is labeled "Central Endor".

The map also names the north most region "Formenor" with "The Northern Waste" writen below in brackets (like with Rómen - this probably implies that the region has an alternative name).

After looking around in Google images, I managed to find a version of the full map of Arda, though it is coloured differently and is labeled unlike in the book:

John Ohara - Arda in the Second Age.jpg

Middle-Earth is dreadfully mis-labeled, though. The "Formenor", "Endor" and "Harad" labels are correct (though Endor and Harad should be writen larger to show that they are the names of a group of regions). Also, "Hither Lands" wasn't writen there. Instead, "Middle-Earth" was writen in the centre of the continent in large letters.

Everything else is basically exactly as shown on the map in the book. I was unable to find the exact map or the detailed maps of the conitinents.

Do you think that counts as a reliable source? -- Explorer of Arda 19:16, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

You're going to have to be a bit more specific - there's at least six books going by the name "Tolkien's World". I know for a fact that it's not in Helms' book or Paintings of Middle-earth. I haven't read Day's books, but he has a reputation for making stuff up. None of the authors are "close associates" of the Tolkien family. It wouldn't have mattered either way.
The only full World map Tolkien made can be found in "The Shaping of Middle-earth". It does not contain the names "Formenor" or "Eastland". A quick google search on either term only results in fan fic sites. They're not in the index of The History of Middle-earth, the Reader's Companion, or the "major" reference works by Robert Foster and J.E.A. Tyler.
As in terms of reliable, if it's not primary (i.e. by Tolkien himself) it's caveat lector. If it cites a source, double check. If it doesn't, double check anyway. Can't find it? Don't add it. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:35, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Ah. But I just want to know something. This site doesn't mention the Eastern or Inner Sea (as far as I know of) at all, though they appear in the inacurate map suplied. I know that there are some pages on this site with something at the top that says the page is speculative/inaccurate, so couldn't the pages relating to the above mentioned regions/seas be topped with that? -- Explorer of Arda 19:16, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
I think you mean this template. That's for stuff from The History of Middle-earth. Meaning it did come from Tolkien, but he abandoned or revised the concept, or it doesn't fit into later work. Or this template, which concerns wide-spread fanon and unlicensed adaptations. Or this one, for licensed adaptations like movies, games and MERP. But without the source, I can't tell if it's any of them. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:07, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
P.S. You can sign by typing four tildes: ~~~~
Yes. That's what I mean.
Oh, and thanks for the tip! ^^
Anyway, do you know if Tolkien ever made a complete map like that? if so, I'd love to see it. For now, I think I'll keep the fanon version of Arda in my own augmented reality of it. -- Explorer of Arda 19:16, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
The only thing closely resembling a map is a pencil sketch in The Shaping of Middle-earth. The shapes of the continents are consistent with the map above, but it's a very rough sketch, nowhere near as detailed as the other maps. Here it is.
Also, I deleted your image as it turns out it was already uploaded. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:26, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
That's fine. I've allready saved the image to my PC! ^^
As for the pencil-map, I see that it must be from a time quite a while before the third age, since Beleraid is still there, the Sea of Helcar hasn't dried up yet and the Misty Mountains haven't formed yet. Harad, Hyemenor, Eastland and Aman are basically the same, though.
You sea the mountain range running north-south east of the Sea of Helcar (the inland sea in the middle of Middle-Earth)? Those are the Red Mountains. East of that (apparently) lies Rómen and west of that lies what is to become the regions of Middle-Earth seen in The Lord of the Rings.
The sea that separates Middle-Earth from Hyemenor (aka The Dark Land) is (apparently) called Enegaer (the "Inner Sea"), while the sea that separates Middle-Earth and Hyemanor from Eastland (the cresent-shaped continent to the far east) is called the "East Sea".
Say, now that I come to think of it, does this site have pages on how the Misty Mountains were formed? Because (according to the map you provided) there was once a time when they didn't yet exist. -- Explorer of Arda 19:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)