User talk:Hyarion: Difference between revisions

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{{usertalk}}


== valimar ==


== Spam ==
Hi Hyarion, I'm one of the Founders & Bureaucrats of [http://wiki.valimar.ir/index.php?title=%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C valimar] (and also one of [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B1:PHoBiA the admins] in [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C Persian Wikipedia]). I'm glad that you setup us as your sister-site. I'll setup reciprocal links to TG articles as soon as possible. Best Regards -- [[User:PHoBiA|PHoBiA]] 19:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
``


Hey Hyarion,
== Missing Gandalf edit in recent changes ==
I have found a problem in copying and pasting.


I was copying a paragraph on the Dwarves of the Iron Hills article and it brought up a questionaire instead of my pasteSo I thought I would let you know of that and see if you could fix it.
The database seems to have behaved strangely when I edited [[Gandalf]]. I removed the occurrences of the word "human" from the article, and couldn't load the page. However, looking in the article history, my edit is there, but it doesn't appear in "Recent changes". And strangely enough, a search for "human" on TG still yields the article "Gandalf", although the word "human" cannot be found (any longer) in the article. Maybe the issue will disappear once the database reloads or refreshes! :-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


Your wiking friend --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 01:09, 21 February 2007 (EST)
::While you're at it, another strange page is the [[Portal:Locations/Category tree]]. This page, which has been changed to a redirect, still seems to carry an imprint in the database somehow. E.g., searching on "human" on TG makes "Portal:Locations/Category Tree" show up. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


:Hm, just to make sure I'm following; instead of pasting the text you had copied it pasted some questionnaire? Unfortunately (or fortunately) there is no way for any kind of spam to get into TG that way, my only guess is you accidently had something else copied during or after you attempted to copy the text. Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but I can assure you it's not related to TG. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:30, 21 February 2007 (EST)
== what is a Tolkien Mile ? ==


I thunk your rightMy brother gets those off the web and sends them to his friends so he may be the culprate. Thanks --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 13:02, 21 February 2007 (EST)
It seems to me that there is something wrong with using a standard (english) mile for Tolkiens MapsThe result is a Middle Earth which is too small. Tolkien used a lot of History and Myth from other parts of Northern Europe. Could Tolkiens Mile actually be the 'Irish' mile which was used by the English in Ireland for centuries. I will get more detail if needed but I think 1 'irish' mile is equal to 1.27 'english' miles. If this were the case Middle Earth would be 27% greater in size which would be an improvement as there are a number of references to distance which only make sense if the 'english' mile is increased substantially.  The 'swedish' mile is equal to 6 'english' miles which is too big. {{unsigned|Nuadamor}}<small> (00:01, 22 May 2011).</small>


== Simpson's Spoof ==
:If I remember correctly he used a fictional mile, the Númenorean mile. I don't remember how big that is (but I think it was, the Númenorean feet at least was), but I think it can be found at [[Unfinished Tales]]. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


I saw that the other night and I knew that it was going to be put up, awesome! One little problem, not really important, it was not UPS they were waging war with, it was a fictional group called the American Shipping Service, or A.S.S.(not to be confused with the human ass). I'm sure you knew that, I'm just splitting hairs. --[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 15:13, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
::At Oxonmoot some years ago [[Alex Lewis]] actually gave a talk saying he thought that the scale of the maps was incorrect (sadly, I can't remember by how much, or indeed, in which direction). The Númenóreans had the ''[[lár]]'' which was very slightly shorter than our league (three miles); there is no indication that Tolkien intended to use anything other than the English statute mile (defined in law since 1592) in the maps.


:Ya I liked it too :) I was going to put American Shipping Service but figured UPS was more simple and to the point. Do you think having an article on The Simpsons here with all the references to Tolkien/Lord of the Rings would be going too far? If I can find more references I think it may be worth it. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:20, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
::(I should point out, there is the "Old English mile" which was variously longer than the statute mile - about 1.3 statute miles - but why would Tolkien logically use a different measure?) --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


:Dude, that was an awesome clip! --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 19:54, 14 March 2007 (EDT)
:::Tolkien’s discussion of the [[Lár|Númenórean league]] refered to by Amroth can be found in the appendix ‘Númenórean linear measures’ in {{UT|Gladden}} - it is 5000 [[ranga]]r of about 38 (imperial) inches, and therefor nearly equal to one statute league of 5280 yards (= three statute miles). It seems this can be taken as evidence that, certainly around the time of the revision of [[The Lord of the Rings]], Tolkien was regarding distances in his [[legendarium]] as described (approximately) in statute leagues and miles.
:::However, in {{HM|RC}}, (on pp. 22-23 in the 2005 hardbound edition), Tolkien’s notes on two attempts at devising a Hobbit system of linear measures can be found. In one of these attempts he arrives as longest measure at a ‘long mile, or gait mile’, or ‘yong-mile or longmile’ of 2,304 imperial yards. That is certainly very nearly equal to 1.3 statute miles, and so these attempts may be related to the ‘Old English mile’ mentioned by Mith. (There is also a ‘(short) mile, or pace-mile’ of half this length, 1,152 imperial yards.)
:::But in the other attempt he arrives at a different type of mile, namely one of 1,600 imperial yards, thus being somewhat shorter than the statute mile. And it is only in this attempt that the term ‘league’ is mentioned as containing 3 of these miles. That is in my opinion an obstacle to any supposition that a ‘long’ or ‘Old English’ mile could have been intended in the text of The Lord of the Rings. In fact, all linear measures used in that work are such as were in normal use in the imperial system when Tolkien grew up: inch, foot, ell, fathom, furlong, mile and league; and of these only foot, mile and league turn up in his attempts at a Hobbit system of measures.
:::And finally, I have never found any reason to consider Tolkien’s Middle-earth as mapped too small. I would be interested in knowing why [[Alex Lewis]] thinks so (or at least thought so a couple of years ago). In fact had Mith said so a week earlier, I would have asked Alex, since I had ample opportunity to discuss it with him over the last weekend. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


:I think any show like that, Family Guy, Simpsons, Futurama, etc. should have an article. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but there was a sitcom on Fox called That '70s Show, and the sole reason I watched week after week was for the Star Wars references. Its not going to far at all, any reference Tolkien's masterpiece deserves a place on Tolkien Gateway, in my opinion.Info wise, I can help with that, but I'll leave the uploading of video to more experienced editors.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 23:38, 14 March 2007 (EDT)
::::I would have been unable to posts that had not yet been made! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:38, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


::I've gone ahead and created an article for [[The Simpsons]], embedding the YouTube videos is easy, there's also a tag for Google Video: <nowiki><googlevideo>8119893978710705002</googlevideo></nowiki>. Uploading our own video isn't quite complete yet, but you can see it in action [[Forum:Video_Player|here]]. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 00:13, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
:::::Well, of course! I was trying to imply that I wished Nuadamor had posed his question earlier, and you had then replied as promptly as you in fact did, but I got a bit convoluted and cut too much from my sentence. [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:17, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


==Recent Vandalism==
== TG is a thoroughly enjoyable read! ==


I believe you missed the vandalism on the article [[Dragons]]. I can't easily revert edits, and I'm not sure if that's a privelige with administrators where you can just press a button and it is reverted or what.  Anyway, how do these vandals work, deleting all beyond a certain point?  They aren't all different people, are they? --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 17:05, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
Hyarion, just wanted to say that this is an excellent Tolkien site and it has been a pleasure to read some of the articles I have come across so far. I can see that a great deal of time and effort has gone into making the site what it is today, a professional-looking, informative and well-built engine of encyclopaedic Tolkien knowledge. I have even been inspired for my own wiki (not Tolkien related) by the way articles and templates have been put together. The skin is amazing too; wish I had something unique instead of the plain vector skin.


:I hadn't missed it, just had yet to get to it :) I've been busy in the chat giving away all the prizes and chatting with all the guest speakers, where you should be! Admins have a revert button, yes, but it's pretty simple for a regular user to revert as well, just click the history tab, click the link directly before the vandalism happened, and then click edit, save. The only reason these bots are getting through the filter is because they aren't adding external links so it's hard to catch them. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:09, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
Do keep up the good work. [[User:Kerchi|Kerchi]] 10:13, 30 May 2011 (UTC)


== Cluttered Edain pages ==
:Hi Kerchi, thanks so much for your compliments! It's in feedback like yours which makes it all worth it. We look forward to seeing you around. If you have any questions or suggestions feel free to let me know. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
::You're welcome. I can see that quality has been an important driving force for those who have put this site together and believe me I know how difficult it can be what with running my own wiki, so I intend to keep having a look around and read a few more articles. --[[User:Kerchi|<span style="color:#183a55">'''Kerchi'''</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Kerchi|<span style="color:#aaaaaa">'''talk'''</span>]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Kerchi|<span style="color:#aaaaaa">'''contribs'''</span>]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Editcount/Kerchi/Edits|<span style="color:#aaaaaa">'''edits'''</span>]]</sup></small> 22:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)


Bit of a newbie suggestion concerning a merger but i've checked the Wiki 'how to' article and it doesnt cover it. There's an awful lot of pages in the Edain category which deal with much the same thing, pages like [[Three Houses of the Edain]]; [[House of Beor]]; [[First House of the Edain]]; [[People of Hador]] and many others, both to do with specific houses, characters after whom houses are named, and various specific terms (as in the case of some of the above). I would suggest some serious merging of all of these articles to form a more complete and coherent resource of imformation. Is that something i can do myself and simply havnt found out how or does it take more 'powers' to mark something up for merging? Dr Death
== Dictionary-style searches ==


:You hit the nail on the head with adding the merge notices, although it might be easier if you simply add <nowiki>{{merge|Title of article}}</nowiki> this grabs what is located at Template:Merge and includes it automatically while inserting the variable. I think now we just need to figure out which title is the most common and place the article there. Keep up the great work! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:59, 19 April 2007 (EDT)
Being able to search for the English translation of a specific Elvish word (or in any other invented language) would be very useful! Would it be difficult to implement something like this?


>> I beleive that the most obvious terms of use (and thus the name page titles) should be the 'House of...Beor/Haleth/Hador', though there is a strong case for the House of Haleth to be called the Haladin. The [[Three Houses of the Edain]] page should simply be a portion of the [[Edain]] page and it's that which i will endeavour to do when i have the time.
To exemplify: let's say I wanted to know if Tolkien invented some word for "alphabet". I just type "alphabet" in a search box, which would take me to a "disambig" article suggesting me to read either an article on Noldorin ''tiwdi'' or on Quenya ''tengwanda''.


== Change to Main Page ==
Perhaps we can implement this in the current "disambiguation" system (but we would get a huge amount of disambig articles, though!)?


Hello Hyarion!
--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Just wondered about adding a link to the Category index from the main page. As a new user I've found catergory list in the special pages great, but there doesn't seem to be a link on the main page. Findegil


:I think that's a good idea and if you like that page you might also like [[Index of categories]]. It has to be updated manually so it's missing a lot but hopefully we'll be able to create a nice tree-like structure for even easier navigation. I'll try and find a spot for it down by the A-Z list or something. Oh and you can sign your comments by clicking the signature button second from the right just above this textbox. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 12:11, 22 April 2007 (EDT)
:Sounds like a good idea. Maybe it should get an own namespace, so there won't be too much disambigs. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 11:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)


Thanks --[[User:Findegil|Findegil]] 13:45, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
::Maybe something to discuss in a meeting?--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)


::This could be a nice basis for a Portal:Languages, don't you think?


==Chat isn't working for me==
::I'm also thinking that if we add an alphabetically-based category to all invented words, we would have both an English-Elvish(et al) and an Elvish(et al)-English list of words. Another solution could perhaps be to have a certain namespace, like "Dictionary Index:A", "Dictionary Index:B", etc, as a complement to the current Index namespace.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)


Well, I'm back, as you've probably noticed.  I was hoping to communicate with you on Chat, but for the past three days I haven't been able to access it through the java links provided.  My browser keeps on saying "page not found", etc.  I'm not sure if it's my problem or that of the Chat itself. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 11:38, 8 June 2007 (EDT)
:::Noting old discussion: [[Forum:Elvish-English and English-Elvish entries]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


:By the way, was the issue of redirects ever cleared up? Several editors are really leaping at the chance to redirect a lot of pages. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 11:41, 8 June 2007 (EDT)
== Start article name with lower-case letters? ==


::Just cleaning up, Narfil. I apologise if i seem to be taking a liberty but i'm using my best judgement in every redirect i make. [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 12:46, 8 June 2007 (EDT)
Would it be possible to do a tech tweak in order to create article names with lower-case letters? IMHO, this would be great for the linguistic articles on words - a standard which also Wiktionary uses. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


::Welcome back Narfil! The Java clients will be down for a while, I'll try and get them working this weekend, but your best bet is to get a real IRC client like [http://www.silverex.org/download/ XChat] and connect to irc.tolkiengateway.net. I don't think we've come to a conclusion regarding redirects, but for now we should probably lay off converting anything into redirects as right now I think those who oppose yours and my views don't fully see the whole dictionary aspect and how much redirection would hurt that goal. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 13:37, 8 June 2007 (EDT)
:All articles have to begin with a capital letter (that's a technical limitation which can't be changed). You can use DISPLAYTITLE in order to make it appear as if they begin with a lower-case letter, however (see this working in [[TG:Sandbox]] right now). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:13, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


:::I'm not sure if you saw what I posted at the forum, but in short I said that I believed that it should only be converted into a redirect if it contains no more information that "this was another name for", etc.  Of course, it might be an interesting idea if for such things (minor names) we could have references on that page to where that particular name was used.  Might be good if we could decide on a standard version of LotR/Sil/HoME, so we could add page numbers. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 14:28, 8 June 2007 (EDT)
::Thanks, I'll bring it up at the meeting, to see if it's a good idea or not.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


::::Ya I saw what you posted and I entirely agree. Everything about Gandalf should all be in the Gandalf article, however we can expand on his titles, when they were used, how they were derived, (by Tolkien as well as in-universe), etc. in Mithrandir, Olorin, etc. References is an issue I hope to tackle this summer, I'd like everything to be based on paragraph seeing as this wouldn't change. And I'll create a website which will allow people to easily lookup and convert the paragraphs into their respected page numbers and visa versa. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:57, 8 June 2007 (EDT)
:::I tried the code DISPLAYTITLE in the article [[brand (word)]], and I noticed that you can also remove the bracketed word - is this preferable or not? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:51, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


::: Well to add a face to 'those who...' i think it's worth pointing out that even dictionaries have 'see: X' under some entries, redirection just cuts out the middleman. While i whole heartedly agree that full exploration should be given to every name and its entymology (for gods sake dont get me wrong on that) i still beleive that it should be done under a central article to what it applies so as to fascilitate a greater resource of information regarding the subject. If you really want to get pedantic wikis are online *encyclopedias* rather than dictionaries and so should provide the greatest and most comprehensive amount of information without having to piddle about with technicalities. I say this as much from the standpoint of a user as an editor. By all means have sections within a main article and redirect to those sections but there are too many technicalities (a recent new page for '*The* War of Wrath' rather than just 'War of Wrath' prooves my point adequately as to how easily people can get mixed up). [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 08:54, 9 June 2007 (EDT)
== Long articles ==


:::: And I can see the benefit to that which is why I'm not 100% decided on the issue either. However let us take [[Aragorn]] for example, where would the history behind the name be located at, Aragorn I or Aragorn II? Same goes for [[Boromir]], [[Minas Tirith]], and many more articles. Instead of having to replicate the information on the name on each article, Aragorn is a nice example of how the definition could be at the disambiguation article which links to articles with that name.
What is causing the problem with the "long" articles? It's impossible for me to save an edit on "Eriador". However, another long article, "J.R.R. Tolkien", causes no problems.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
::::When we get more editors we will be able to vote on matters like this, it is just hard now with so few as we don't want to be swayed in the wrong direction by a one/two votes, which is why I guess we'll just have to focus on other matters until we all agree on something. Thanks for all your input and help by the way!
::::Looking back, I think we both have the same idea, but the issue is which article is the "central article". Wikipedia, (and I think yourself?) would vote for Aragorn since it is the most popular and obvious. I tend to sway towards staying neutral and treating even the minor characters with equality, as one might say that just because Tolkien's stories focused more one one character, doesn't make them more important. This is obviously going to force the majority of users to make an extra click, but I'm just a perfectionist like that :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:35, 9 June 2007 (EDT)


::::: In the case of disambiguation pages i am in utter and complete agreement with you. Considering that Tolkien Gateway is more specialist than wikipedia we should treat all subjects with identical names with complete equality (so long as we make it clear which is which) and if we include a translation of the name there for both cases then so much the better, since that page does have to exist. In those cases it may be worth giving a 'quick translation' though in the character box if someone does go specific (so you dont have to go to [[Aragorn]] if you just want to know out of interest what [[Aragorn II]]'s name translates as).
== Adding to List of Arda Encyclopedia ==
::::: The situations i am opposed to though are those when a name or term for any subject (which does tend to be characters but others suffer as well) which specifically refers to that one subject and has no context outside it (Mithrandir only ever refers to Gandalf in the writings of Tolkien) is given a whole page all to itself just because strictly speaking it could (rather than does) refer to something else (such as the case of Mithrandir- there may be another referred to as 'Grey Pilgrim' out there but Tolkien never mentioned them). In those cases i beleive that entymology should be given to every such term but in a section the article of the sole subject it refers to rather than as an independant page.
::::: In the case of titles or tags which could refer to multiple things (say [[The Nine]], [[King under the Mountain]] etc. I beleive that they should be disambiguation pages with a little information on the term itself (much like occurs in the case of two characters called the same thing ([[Aragorn]] using the common example).)
::::: I beleive our notions are how to do things are closer than you think. The matter just seems to have been overlooked (that isnt meant as an insult, just a comment). However i'm going to make it my business to really sort it out so as to provide the clearest possible way to find information on this site. [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 08:12, 10 June 2007 (EDT)


::::::A quick translation wouldn't be a bad idea in the infobox, though I do think we'll run into an issue when there is a translation multiple languages, such as a Mannish word has a translation in Black Speech, Quenya, Sindarin, etc. On all of the articles we are definitely trying to add Etymology sections however, which should also prove fairly quick in providing the meaning and history behind a name (both in-Arda and out-of-Arda).
Hi Hyarion. I'm one of the [http://wiki.valimar.ir Valimar] administrators. The Biggest Persian Encyclopedia about Arda and Tolkien. I want you to add us in the list of Arda Encyclopedia.(in this [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/List_of_Tolkien_Encyclopedias page]).


::::::I'm glad we both agree on the disambig articles, and I can definitely see the benefit for an article such as Mithrandir to be a redirect. But here is the conflict: Articles such as those found in [[:Category:Quenya_words]]. If we agree that these articles of Quenya words are worth having, then we can deduce that the difference between an article such as [[Astar]] and [[Mithrandir]] is that Mithrandir is attributed to someone/something. To me that is like giving less importance to a "more important" article. I guess I'm trying to just look at it from the perspective of a language expert using the wiki as a dictionary reference. Heh, sorry, I can be rather stubborn at times :) Thanks for bringing this up and hopefully we can set a standard for it as a lot of the wiki is not as standardized as I would like. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 09:34, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
I have to say we are your sister site.


::::::: Well i mentioned briefly on the forum the difference between words in their pure form and in the form found in names. In names which usually consist of forms of at least two words of a different language. For example [[Gondor]] in its purest form would be Gondhdôr but is mutated to a far simpler form. I make no claim to be a linguistic expert but considering pretty much all names in middle earth whether they apply to a person or place are rendered into some form of elvish rather than 'The Queen's English' to provide two entries for each: one for the word and another for what it refers to, seems to be all too much of a muchness (and would only be balanced by providing redirects to the subject matter for the word's translation in english). Far better to present the component words in their purest forms on their own page and provide the examples of use there while providing a 'quick translation' on the page of what the hybrid words refer to (naturally linking to its componant parts). To me this sounds only like good sense, but i may be wrong. What do you think? [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 10:50, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
Best Regards.


::::::::I've gone ahead and thrown together a crude example at [[Mithrandir]]. A lot more could still be added to this article, and it just seems like we would be cramming a lot of information into Gandalf if we had to have similar sections for every single name Gandalf had. Anyway, I think both of us have our own, valid, opinions on the matter and we might as well just wait for a few more editors to voice their opinion until we can get a good majority before placing a final vote. Thanks for your input! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:49, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
:Welcome! No problem, your encyclopedia has been added to the list. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


::::::::: Yes, fair enoughski. Your article on Mithrandir is certainly a preferable format to what was there whem i redirected it to Gandalf but i cant help but feel it could have been summed up in a single short paragraph. Just to cobble together an example-
== Tolkien Gateway email addresses ==


'''Mithrandir''' (pronounced "Meethra'ndeerr") [[Sindarin]] for 'Grey-Pilgrim/Wanderer' (Olorin in [[Quenya]]: see above/below) used widely among the [[Elves]]<sup>[[#Notes|1]]</sup> 
Hi Hyarion! You promised to look into the prospect of Tolkien Gateway email addresses; has there been any progress? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 15:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
, [[Gondorians]]<sup>[[#Notes|2]]</sup> and [[Dúnedain]]<sup>[[#Notes|3]]</sup>


== Notes ==
:Hey KA! Yes, I think Google Apps (Free) is going to be our best option. It's halfway setup and the plan is to have it fully functional by the upcoming meeting. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]
:1."Mithrandir, Mithrandir sang the Elves, O Pilgrim Grey! For so they loved to call him."
– [[The Fellowship of the Ring]], [[The Mirror of Galadriel]]
:2. "May you bring good councel to Denethor in his need, and to us all, Mithrandir!' [[Ingold]] cried."
- [[The Return of the King]], [[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]
:3. "Dark indeed is the hour,' said the old man, 'and at such times you are wont to come Mithrandir."
- [[The Return of the King]], [[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]  


::::::::: So as you can see while the coding is pretty fiendish it can be done. But as you say, the deciding vote will be cast when there are more voters to make it. Until then we'll just have to tread carefully around each others edits :). [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 13:21, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
::Awesome! I look forward to it! :) --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 14:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


::::::::::I would agree my example was rather stretched out and yours flows much better. This brings up yet another issue, we need a good template for our Elvish word articles, pronunciation mp3 link in the corner, image of the word in [[Tengwar]], standard headers/sections/etc. I think this discussion could go on forever so I better stop as we both have made some good points, I think in a few more months we should be able to make a final decision as TG grows. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:19, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
:::Is it done yet? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 12:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)


== The Hobbit Screenplay ==
::::Was I ignored? :( --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


I'm just stopping by to ask about [[the Hobbit screenplay]], I'm contributing to it. First, I would want to ask you, is it still active? Second, I want to ask you, can you read my additions and make suggestions on the thing I just wrote. Third, when the time comes, give the script to Peter Jackson or whatever responsible director and he/she and his/her colleague(s) will to whatever they want to it. =)
==TS permission==
Hi! I noticed that the Amon Hen articles carry the sentence "Reprinted by kind permission of The Tolkien Society and the named cover artist(s) - all rights reserved." What exactly does this refer to? I'm pretty sure that cover images and a description of the contents goes under fair use for educational purposes in any country...? Can this "permission" be removed, or moved to a copyright page (as it looks kind of strange in the context of the individual articles)? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


The book is really cool in my opinion, and I don't want some children's movie like Eragon or something like the 1980's adaption released in honor of this great book. =)
:I believe the wording came from [[Andrew Butler]] who went to great lengths to make sure even the individual artists were okay with having their cover art displayed on the wiki. I'd agree though that the content most likely falls under fair use and a more minor notation would be suitable. I think some statement is worth having if only to illustrate the extra steps taken to consider the copyright holders. -- [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]


Hope it isn't that much to ask! =)
::Alright. I'll try to remember to bring the issue up at a meeting. Thanks for quick answer! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


--[[User:Iluvatar|Iluvatar]] 21:53, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
== Numenor ==


:I wouldn't say it is extremely active, but it just takes one person to get it started again and more people will join in, I'll start working on it as well though I don't have much experience with screenplays. Not many people know about it so we'll have to spread the word a bit. So far your additions look great, very vivid. I definitely think it would be a good idea to hand the script over to a studio/director, even if just for inspiration. Keep up the great work! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:03, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
Isn't [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Athelas&oldid=186732 this] strange? This old version yields a redlink to "Númenor". --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:32, 22 February 2012 (UTC)


== Year pages ==
: And [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/wiki/N%C3%BAmen%CE%BFr this] is even more strange, while the [[Númenor|real article]] still exists. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 20:17, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
A question for you, Mr. H-- I have noticed that there are alot of red links for pages for important years, like III 3019, for instance. Is there an organized plan to create these pages?  And what structure or format should be used?  --[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 16:15, 13 June 2007 (EDT)


:Hey there, right now the best place for year pages is to look at [[Timeline]]. I went through and made articles for most of the years that were mentioned in the [[Appendices]] but haven't got around to verifying all the other information, as the Timeline is not 100% accurate. I would eventually like to get a source for all the years so we can make sure not to make any mistakes. I do want to work on a standard layout for all the years, definitely with some templates and a way to navigate between the years but I haven't settled on anything. If you want to start on the articles though feel free to, I think we settled on a ''Fourth Age 1000'' naming scheme. Just try to verify that the information is correct if you can, and make sure the Timeline links to it. Thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:25, 13 June 2007 (EDT)
::Hm, definitely must be the way the symbol is translated and encoded. I'll do some research. Good catch! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


== Additional Book Source ==
== Editing Rise of the Witch King Game Campaign Details ==


Just curious....how difficult would it be to add another (non-commercial) site to the Book Sources page?--[[User:Fleela|fleela]] 13:11, 19 June 2007 (EDT)
I want to edit campaign details for the ROTWK game.There is a mistake in the last sentence.It is Prince Earnur who destroyed the Witch King not King Arveleg I.Can i have the permission to change the name of the King?? --[[User:Antoinevlah|Antoinevlah]] 17:24, 4 March 2012 (UTC)


:Hm, not sure I know what you mean by the Book Sources page. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 13:21, 19 June 2007 (EDT)
:If this is true, then please go ahead and edit the page.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)


::[[Special:Booksources]]--[[User:Fleela|fleela]] 13:28, 19 June 2007 (EDT)
==On Battle of the Crossings of Poros==


:::Ah, sorry, I forgot about that. Ya, as long as the book can be accessed by just inserting the ISBN into the URL. Another thing I'd like to do is add more variables to the infobox so we can add other stores there if they are cheaper than Amazon. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 13:39, 19 June 2007 (EDT)
I contacted you on this subject because you created the page and I was not able to create a discussion on it. This page is a complete copy from the page at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/fordsofporos.html--[[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]] 15:08, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


::::I'd love it if you could add [http://www.librarything.com LibraryThing] as a source. The link looks like "http://www.librarything.com/isbn/0618134700" You can also take a look at their huge list of book source links at http://www.librarything.com/bookservices.php --[[User:Fleela|fleela]] 13:53, 19 June 2007 (EDT)
:We know about the copies, we're working on correcting them. If you find any other, just let us know. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


:::::Added. :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:38, 19 June 2007 (EDT)
:Thanks for catching that [[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]]. There are still a few articles out there which do not adhere to our current standards. We will rectify this specific article as soon as possible, and as Ederchil mentioned, if you happen to stumble upon any others just let someone know. Thanks for your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:40, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


::::::Great, thanks! --[[User:Fleela|fleela]] 14:54, 19 June 2007 (EDT)
== Need Sumner Contact re: Bernie Zuber item ==


== Multiple account mess ==
Sumner,


Hi. I'm also [[User:Rog]] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Uthanc Wikipedia's Uthanc]. I was planning to use the latter here as well, so I created [[User:Uthanc]] and was going to make all my Rog links redirect to Uthanc, but then [[User:Rog]] is still online even when I'm logged in as Uthanc. What should I do? [[User:Uthanc|Uthanc]] 21:10, 19 June 2007 (EDT)
This is my second attempt to contact you through this website. And I'm not sure you are Hyarion -- but whoever is will know how to get this message to you.


:Hey there Uthanc! I watch a lot of your Tolkien edits over on Wikipedia, nice to have you around. Hm, not sure I follow regarding Rog being online when you're logged in as Uthanc. Do you mean on the main page? Maybe it's just cached. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:05, 20 June 2007 (EDT)
I am Teny's friend Anita Farley who auctioned Bernie Zuber's collection after his death. My email address has changed, and I have lost yours in the process.  


== General comments ==
My new private email is: pippygpupp (at) charter (dot) net.


#The Mediawiki software could use updating. Compare Wikipedia's "Editing..." pages to ours.
Please contact me. It is regarding a very rare item I still have from Bernie's collection.
#Ideally, many articles should eventually be rewritten from scratch in order to avoid being Wikipedia forks/clones (daunting!) in the same way that all Tolkien guidebooks/sites are (were) written differently. I don't want to "pirate" Wikipedia for articles here, so the most we can do is to borrow references.
#I believe some naming conventions are unwieldy. For example, [[Faramir]] leads to a disambiguation page between [[Faramir (son of Denethor II)]], [[Faramir son of Ondoher]] and [[Faramir Took I]] (the First?!). In fairness, that's what Wookieepedia does - type Luke and you won't go to that Skywalker immediately. And that makes this wiki different from Wikipedia... [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]] instead of [[The Lord of the Rings film trilogy]]? Well, redirects can make the redlink go to the other link. Also, parentheses or no parentheses in "son of"?
#Apparently here everything is canon... we just need to point out when Tolkien wrote it, and whether it has been superseded. Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Middle-earth canon|was rewritten]] and no longer declares such-and-such to be canon. How about a "definitely non-canon" category and template for derivative stuff like the movies and its merchandise? [[User:Uthanc|Uthanc]] 21:42, 19 June 2007 (EDT)
##Edit: we do have [[Template:Noncanon]] and [[Template:Fanon]]
#It's nice to see in-universe style here, without complaints or like-minded tags. [[User:Uthanc|Uthanc]] 21:45, 19 June 2007 (EDT)


:Some responses to a few of your comments I know the answer to: the Wikipedia articles were copy-pasted in years ago as placeholders.  We encourage rewrites; they are still in progress.  Much of what you find here (I believe) is actually based off of Wookieepedia.  In general we do have paretheses as a rule.  Again, we only have about four or five regular, dedicated editors.  It takes a long time with that few to rewrite and standardize 5000+ articles.  I hope that helps.  Hyarion should be able to give you a fuller response.  I think he's in the process of upgrading Mediawiki right now. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 21:55, 19 June 2007 (EDT)
Thank you,
Anita


# The software was lagging behind as further upgrades require PHP5, but this summer we plan on upgrading the server along with MediaWiki, which means we'll finally be able to install the extensions we've had our eyes on. (TengTex for one)
:Hi Anita, I apologize as I'm afraid I will be of no help, I'm not sure who Sumner is. Sorry! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
# We've been slowly rewriting the articles from scratch and this is definitely something on the top of our to-do list. Back when all the main articles had all been created we stopped using anything from Wikipedia.
# I'm at a loss as to Faramir Took '''I''' as well...whoever created that article obviously wasn't paying attention *whistles* I think in the beginning we tended to use no-parentheses as I had the idea that we could use the title in the text and we wouldn't have to use the alternative linking method (<nowiki>[[title|text]]</nowiki>) however I don't think anyone would actually say "Faramir son of Ondoher" in an article, so the benefit isn't really there. I'm neutral on the standard and maybe this is something we can have a vote on in the near future now that we have almost enough people to vote.
# Canon is definitely a big issue because it isn't black and white, I think the best approach is leave the choice up to the viewer. I'd be open to seeing some kind of scale, like a 5 meaning it is definitely canon, 3/4 if it's iffy, 0 if a canon subject replaced it, etc.
# I agree, I like the idea that we are essentially writing the Red Book and are looking back on the past.
:::Thanks for your comments, always nice to have fresh eyes around. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:29, 20 June 2007 (EDT)


== Jeremy Bennett Helms Deep Art Misattributed ==


==Anonymous Vandalism==
Hyarion,
You submitted artwork which is attributed to the wrong artist.  The Jeremy Bennett Helm's Deep file is actually artwork by Paul Lasaine.  See the links below:
[http://lasaineportfolio.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-11-13T21:57:00-08:00&max-results=7&start=21&by-date=false Paul Lasaine Helm's Deep]
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOTR-MASTER-WORKS-CONCEPT-ARTWORK-HELMS-DEEP-by-JEREMY-BENNETT-/250967454327 Jeremy Bennett Helm's Deep]
Note that Bennett's image has an encampment in the foreground.


Hyarion, because this vandalism is getting out of hand, I would suggest that for the time being all anonymous users must do a math problem to edit. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 08:14, 9 July 2007 (EDT)
Thought you should know so you can make the appropriate edits.
Sincerely,
[[User:Emlit|Emlit]] 03:40, 20 October 2013 (UTC)


== Canon or not? ==
== hey! ==


I have found two more Dwarves to put in the wiki but I don't know if they're canon.  Could someone who knows the HoME tell me if they are before I make them pages? Their names are Bodruith and Fangluin.
thanks for dropping a line, i was also just curious if you wanted me to work on anything in particular? preferably work from video games or appendices, but anything else at all is good too. except for the history of middle earth (for now) as i don't have that yet! just let me know and i will start off o your "mission"! Thanks!
Also Tom Bombadil was called Forn by the Dwarves but it cannot be made into an page because it's unde the Tom bombadil page.  Can this be made into its own page too? Thanks,--[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 03:05, 12 July 2007 (EDT)


:Bodruith and Fangluin come from the [[Book of Lost Tales II]].  Both are uncanonical, but we should have a pages for them.  Bodruith was the Lord of Belegost, and Fangluin was an elderly dwarf who counseled against returning [[Tinwelint]] ([[Thingol]])'s loan.  Yes, we can make pages for [[Forn]] as well. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 15:23, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
[[User:Bigb131999|Bigb131999]] 02:53, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


Alright thanks for clarifying that Narfil I will get right to it.--[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 15:58, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
== Images ==


== [[:Category: Cosmology]] ==
Are all the images on [[Comic-Con 2006|here]] yours, or did you grab them from somewhere else? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 
I've added a few articles to the as yet uncreated [[:Category: Cosmology]]. I'm not sure if a mere mortal like myself can create a category or if like deletion it's a mod only gig. If it is a mod only gig then could you please create said category since there are a lot of 'time and space' subjects that need a home. [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 16:01, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
 
:You're welcome to create categories.  They can always be removed (unlike deletions which are permanent).  Great idea for a category, by the way. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 16:03, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
 
== Categories ==
 
Over my absence the Categories have became very confusing and complicated.  Why was it changed? I thought the way it was going was fine.--[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 16:05, 13 July 2007 (EDT)
 
:Hmm. . . I was the primary categorizer. . . what do you think has changed, and why did it make it complicated? --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 16:26, 13 July 2007 (EDT)
 
::Oh I don't know just a bunch more than I am used to.  It just is a little confusing, but I'll get used to it no biggy. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 18:04, 13 July 2007 (EDT)
 
:::Based on your recent edits, I am guessing you refer to the locations categories.  Basically, the locations are now categorized by type and location.  For instance, [[Brithombar]] would be placed [[:Category:Elven Cities|Elven Cities]], [[:Category:Cities in Beleriand|Cities in Beleriand]], and [[:Category:Falas|Falas]].  If you have any other questions, I guess you can ask me.  If you have any problems with the system feel free to say so.  I did it without bothering to take a vote or anything like that. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 20:17, 13 July 2007 (EDT)
 
It's alright. Your categories help organize things better.  No problem mate. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 20:48, 14 July 2007 (EDT)
 
== Vandalism! ==
 
We need to do something drastic to stop these vandals! It's getting out of hand! --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 20:46, 14 July 2007 (EDT)
 
:Twenty-two today, by my count. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 21:01, 14 July 2007 (EDT)
 
Call me naive but looking at the changes they keep implementing, they dont actually 'vandalise' the pages as such (Putting gibberish up) but rather they seem to keep compressing the information, kicking it down to an Encyclopedia of Arda type minimalism. One criticism i have heard of this type of site is that people do tend to waffle on subtley casting their own 'spin' on the subject matter. While i personally dont hold this view and think that there's every chance this is plain vandalism it might be worth reviewing articles to see if they could be trimmed into shape and pose the question if any of them show noticable bias (such as a case i corrected where it mentioned Glaurung was 'far more cunning' (inprecise quote) than Morgoth's other servants which isnt sourced anywhere.) [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 05:00, 15 July 2007 (EDT)
 
:These are bots, which mean they go through articles and remove everything after a certain point (usually something like the first semicolon).  They aren't human and have nothing to do with the article length (notice how forums are affected).  Actually, I believe that quote about Glaurung could be sourced, though I didn't put it up.  I believe it does say somewhere that he was far more cunning. . . but I'd have to find that. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 07:30, 15 July 2007 (EDT)
 
:I think one of the problems with sourcing (which is a whole other topic) is that we don't really have a steady working reference template.  I believe the update Hyarion's going to get during the summer has that.  I'm looking forward to it. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 08:07, 15 July 2007 (EDT)
 
:Nevermind, I was wrong.  I just found a reference template, though perhaps it isn't the best possible.  We ought to use it more.  I wonder if I'm answering for Hyarion too much. . . --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 14:27, 15 July 2007 (EDT)
 
== Need Some Opinions ==
 
I'm wanting to create a page about the War between Arnor and Angmar but I need a good name.  Any suggestions would be great. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 13:26, 28 July 2007 (EDT)
 
:Arnor-Angmar Wars would be my first thought.  I'll try and think some more on that subject. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 13:45, 28 July 2007 (EDT)
 
Well there's a number of descriptive terms i've heard used for the period. These include "The Fall of Arnor"; "The Ruin of Arnor"; "The Fall of the North-Kingdom". Those however do seem to be quite 'evocative' which may not be the desired effect for an article. Something simpler while still avoiding simply "Arnor vrs Angmar" format might be "The War with Angmar" since Arnor wasnt the only combatant in those struggles and Angmar only lasted for the length of the war. [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 13:53, 28 July 2007 (EDT)
 
== TolkienGateway/Ardapedia ==
 
Hello Hyarion, thanks for your welcome and help. I am a fan of TolkienGateway too and always looking for good background-information to improve our Ardapedia here :) You said you'd like to cooperate with us and I suppose that's a great idea. I'm thinking about a direct connection using Interwiki-Links, like they do it on Wikipedia. It is only an idea so far, but I think it would not only expand the amount of information in our projects, but also would add to the credits for both TolkienGateway and Ardapedia. What do you think about that so far, and do you think is that worth discussing it? best regards [[User:Sinthoras|Sinthoras]]
 
:Hello Sinthoras, yes that is an idea I've had in mind as well. We're also good friends with the [http://kontu.info/wiki/Etusivu Finnish wiki] who I bet would be interested in joining as well. I want to make some changes to the size of our links on the left, but once I do that I'll configure the database to link to you guys whenever the tag is added to an article. We might need some help finding the correct translation for some of the names however, articles like Gandalf are easy, but for instance you don't have an article named "Elves" and I don't think any current TG members know much German :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:29, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
 
::I've gone ahead and set it all up and you can see the interwiki links functioning at [[Gandalf]]. I'll try to add as many links as I can, to keep it standardized I think it will be best to insert <nowiki>[[de:Article Name]]</nowiki> below the Category links, leaving a space between them, that's how Wikipedia does it at least. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:56, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
 
:::[[Elves]] is easy to do ;-) Though not German myself, I can help out here now and then, as I can read German fairly well. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 10:34, 5 October 2007 (EDT)
 
wow :] you already took the next steps, great! For us it isn't very hard to find the correct english articles, cause we often deal with the original names in our articles too and I'm sure we can help you out if you need the right german names ;). It will take us a short while to fix the Interwiki-Links on the Ardapedia-system. Looking forward --[[User:Sinthoras|Sinthoras]] 11:20, 5 October 2007 (EDT)
 
 
== Hi ! ==
Hello Hyarion. Dis is truely amazing. Gre8 work. Nicely done. I Love Tolkien Gateway ! Cheers ! {{unsigned|Vroom}}
 
:We're glad to hear you find it useful, as comments like that make it all worth it. :) If you see any articles you'd like to improve feel free to edit them, and if you have any comments/suggestions feel free to let me know --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 12:20, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
 
== What a Collection !==
Hats off to you dude ! Everything is So Organized in that Collection;  as well as on Tolkien Gateway ! --[[User:Vroom|Vroom]]
 
:Thanks, I should take some new pictures as the collection has changed quite a bit. I can't take credit for all the organization on TG though as we've had a lot of help. Thanks for your contributions. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:43, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Revision as of 19:06, 19 August 2014

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Welcome to Hyarion's talk page.

valimar

Hi Hyarion, I'm one of the Founders & Bureaucrats of valimar (and also one of the admins in Persian Wikipedia). I'm glad that you setup us as your sister-site. I'll setup reciprocal links to TG articles as soon as possible. Best Regards -- PHoBiA 19:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC) ``Reply[reply]

Missing Gandalf edit in recent changes

The database seems to have behaved strangely when I edited Gandalf. I removed the occurrences of the word "human" from the article, and couldn't load the page. However, looking in the article history, my edit is there, but it doesn't appear in "Recent changes". And strangely enough, a search for "human" on TG still yields the article "Gandalf", although the word "human" cannot be found (any longer) in the article. Maybe the issue will disappear once the database reloads or refreshes! :-) --Morgan 23:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

While you're at it, another strange page is the Portal:Locations/Category tree. This page, which has been changed to a redirect, still seems to carry an imprint in the database somehow. E.g., searching on "human" on TG makes "Portal:Locations/Category Tree" show up. --Morgan 23:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

what is a Tolkien Mile ?

It seems to me that there is something wrong with using a standard (english) mile for Tolkiens Maps. The result is a Middle Earth which is too small. Tolkien used a lot of History and Myth from other parts of Northern Europe. Could Tolkiens Mile actually be the 'Irish' mile which was used by the English in Ireland for centuries. I will get more detail if needed but I think 1 'irish' mile is equal to 1.27 'english' miles. If this were the case Middle Earth would be 27% greater in size which would be an improvement as there are a number of references to distance which only make sense if the 'english' mile is increased substantially. The 'swedish' mile is equal to 6 'english' miles which is too big. Unsigned comment by Nuadamor (talk • contribs). (00:01, 22 May 2011).

If I remember correctly he used a fictional mile, the Númenorean mile. I don't remember how big that is (but I think it was, the Númenorean feet at least was), but I think it can be found at Unfinished Tales. --Amroth 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
At Oxonmoot some years ago Alex Lewis actually gave a talk saying he thought that the scale of the maps was incorrect (sadly, I can't remember by how much, or indeed, in which direction). The Númenóreans had the lár which was very slightly shorter than our league (three miles); there is no indication that Tolkien intended to use anything other than the English statute mile (defined in law since 1592) in the maps.
(I should point out, there is the "Old English mile" which was variously longer than the statute mile - about 1.3 statute miles - but why would Tolkien logically use a different measure?) --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Tolkien’s discussion of the Númenórean league refered to by Amroth can be found in the appendix ‘Númenórean linear measures’ in J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Unfinished Tales, "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" - it is 5000 rangar of about 38 (imperial) inches, and therefor nearly equal to one statute league of 5280 yards (= three statute miles). It seems this can be taken as evidence that, certainly around the time of the revision of The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien was regarding distances in his legendarium as described (approximately) in statute leagues and miles.
However, in Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull (eds), The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion, (on pp. 22-23 in the 2005 hardbound edition), Tolkien’s notes on two attempts at devising a Hobbit system of linear measures can be found. In one of these attempts he arrives as longest measure at a ‘long mile, or gait mile’, or ‘yong-mile or longmile’ of 2,304 imperial yards. That is certainly very nearly equal to 1.3 statute miles, and so these attempts may be related to the ‘Old English mile’ mentioned by Mith. (There is also a ‘(short) mile, or pace-mile’ of half this length, 1,152 imperial yards.)
But in the other attempt he arrives at a different type of mile, namely one of 1,600 imperial yards, thus being somewhat shorter than the statute mile. And it is only in this attempt that the term ‘league’ is mentioned as containing 3 of these miles. That is in my opinion an obstacle to any supposition that a ‘long’ or ‘Old English’ mile could have been intended in the text of The Lord of the Rings. In fact, all linear measures used in that work are such as were in normal use in the imperial system when Tolkien grew up: inch, foot, ell, fathom, furlong, mile and league; and of these only foot, mile and league turn up in his attempts at a Hobbit system of measures.
And finally, I have never found any reason to consider Tolkien’s Middle-earth as mapped too small. I would be interested in knowing why Alex Lewis thinks so (or at least thought so a couple of years ago). In fact had Mith said so a week earlier, I would have asked Alex, since I had ample opportunity to discuss it with him over the last weekend. — Mithrennaith 04:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I would have been unable to posts that had not yet been made! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:38, 27 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, of course! I was trying to imply that I wished Nuadamor had posed his question earlier, and you had then replied as promptly as you in fact did, but I got a bit convoluted and cut too much from my sentence. — Mithrennaith 04:17, 28 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

TG is a thoroughly enjoyable read!

Hyarion, just wanted to say that this is an excellent Tolkien site and it has been a pleasure to read some of the articles I have come across so far. I can see that a great deal of time and effort has gone into making the site what it is today, a professional-looking, informative and well-built engine of encyclopaedic Tolkien knowledge. I have even been inspired for my own wiki (not Tolkien related) by the way articles and templates have been put together. The skin is amazing too; wish I had something unique instead of the plain vector skin.

Do keep up the good work. Kerchi 10:13, 30 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Kerchi, thanks so much for your compliments! It's in feedback like yours which makes it all worth it. We look forward to seeing you around. If you have any questions or suggestions feel free to let me know. --Hyarion 22:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You're welcome. I can see that quality has been an important driving force for those who have put this site together and believe me I know how difficult it can be what with running my own wiki, so I intend to keep having a look around and read a few more articles. --Kerchi  talk | contribs | edits 22:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Dictionary-style searches

Being able to search for the English translation of a specific Elvish word (or in any other invented language) would be very useful! Would it be difficult to implement something like this?

To exemplify: let's say I wanted to know if Tolkien invented some word for "alphabet". I just type "alphabet" in a search box, which would take me to a "disambig" article suggesting me to read either an article on Noldorin tiwdi or on Quenya tengwanda.

Perhaps we can implement this in the current "disambiguation" system (but we would get a huge amount of disambig articles, though!)?

--Morgan 11:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sounds like a good idea. Maybe it should get an own namespace, so there won't be too much disambigs. --Amroth 11:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Maybe something to discuss in a meeting?--Morgan 12:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This could be a nice basis for a Portal:Languages, don't you think?
I'm also thinking that if we add an alphabetically-based category to all invented words, we would have both an English-Elvish(et al) and an Elvish(et al)-English list of words. Another solution could perhaps be to have a certain namespace, like "Dictionary Index:A", "Dictionary Index:B", etc, as a complement to the current Index namespace.--Morgan 12:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Noting old discussion: Forum:Elvish-English and English-Elvish entries --Morgan 21:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Start article name with lower-case letters?

Would it be possible to do a tech tweak in order to create article names with lower-case letters? IMHO, this would be great for the linguistic articles on words - a standard which also Wiktionary uses. --Morgan 09:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

All articles have to begin with a capital letter (that's a technical limitation which can't be changed). You can use DISPLAYTITLE in order to make it appear as if they begin with a lower-case letter, however (see this working in TG:Sandbox right now). --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:13, 3 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, I'll bring it up at the meeting, to see if it's a good idea or not.--Morgan 11:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I tried the code DISPLAYTITLE in the article brand (word), and I noticed that you can also remove the bracketed word - is this preferable or not? --Morgan 22:51, 3 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Long articles

What is causing the problem with the "long" articles? It's impossible for me to save an edit on "Eriador". However, another long article, "J.R.R. Tolkien", causes no problems.--Morgan 09:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Adding to List of Arda Encyclopedia

Hi Hyarion. I'm one of the Valimar administrators. The Biggest Persian Encyclopedia about Arda and Tolkien. I want you to add us in the list of Arda Encyclopedia.(in this page).

I have to say we are your sister site.

Best Regards.

Welcome! No problem, your encyclopedia has been added to the list. --Hyarion 01:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tolkien Gateway email addresses

Hi Hyarion! You promised to look into the prospect of Tolkien Gateway email addresses; has there been any progress? -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  15:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hey KA! Yes, I think Google Apps (Free) is going to be our best option. It's halfway setup and the plan is to have it fully functional by the upcoming meeting. --Hyarion
Awesome! I look forward to it! :) -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  14:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is it done yet? -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  12:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Was I ignored? :( -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  22:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

TS permission

Hi! I noticed that the Amon Hen articles carry the sentence "Reprinted by kind permission of The Tolkien Society and the named cover artist(s) - all rights reserved." What exactly does this refer to? I'm pretty sure that cover images and a description of the contents goes under fair use for educational purposes in any country...? Can this "permission" be removed, or moved to a copyright page (as it looks kind of strange in the context of the individual articles)? --Morgan 18:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I believe the wording came from Andrew Butler who went to great lengths to make sure even the individual artists were okay with having their cover art displayed on the wiki. I'd agree though that the content most likely falls under fair use and a more minor notation would be suitable. I think some statement is worth having if only to illustrate the extra steps taken to consider the copyright holders. -- Hyarion
Alright. I'll try to remember to bring the issue up at a meeting. Thanks for quick answer! --Morgan 18:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Numenor

Isn't this strange? This old version yields a redlink to "Númenor". --Morgan 16:32, 22 February 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And this is even more strange, while the real article still exists. --Amroth 20:17, 22 February 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hm, definitely must be the way the symbol is translated and encoded. I'll do some research. Good catch! --Hyarion 02:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Editing Rise of the Witch King Game Campaign Details

I want to edit campaign details for the ROTWK game.There is a mistake in the last sentence.It is Prince Earnur who destroyed the Witch King not King Arveleg I.Can i have the permission to change the name of the King?? --Antoinevlah 17:24, 4 March 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If this is true, then please go ahead and edit the page.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  17:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

On Battle of the Crossings of Poros

I contacted you on this subject because you created the page and I was not able to create a discussion on it. This page is a complete copy from the page at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/fordsofporos.html--108.11.228.65 15:08, 28 April 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We know about the copies, we're working on correcting them. If you find any other, just let us know. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for catching that 108.11.228.65. There are still a few articles out there which do not adhere to our current standards. We will rectify this specific article as soon as possible, and as Ederchil mentioned, if you happen to stumble upon any others just let someone know. Thanks for your help! --Hyarion 16:40, 28 April 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Need Sumner Contact re: Bernie Zuber item

Sumner,

This is my second attempt to contact you through this website. And I'm not sure you are Hyarion -- but whoever is will know how to get this message to you.

I am Teny's friend Anita Farley who auctioned Bernie Zuber's collection after his death. My email address has changed, and I have lost yours in the process.

My new private email is: pippygpupp (at) charter (dot) net.

Please contact me. It is regarding a very rare item I still have from Bernie's collection.

Thank you, Anita

Hi Anita, I apologize as I'm afraid I will be of no help, I'm not sure who Sumner is. Sorry! --Hyarion 02:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Jeremy Bennett Helms Deep Art Misattributed

Hyarion,

You submitted artwork which is attributed to the wrong artist. The Jeremy Bennett Helm's Deep file is actually artwork by Paul Lasaine. See the links below:

Paul Lasaine Helm's Deep

Jeremy Bennett Helm's Deep

Note that Bennett's image has an encampment in the foreground.

Thought you should know so you can make the appropriate edits.

Sincerely,

Emlit 03:40, 20 October 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

hey!

thanks for dropping a line, i was also just curious if you wanted me to work on anything in particular? preferably work from video games or appendices, but anything else at all is good too. except for the history of middle earth (for now) as i don't have that yet! just let me know and i will start off o your "mission"! Thanks!

Bigb131999 02:53, 6 July 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Images

Are all the images on here yours, or did you grab them from somewhere else? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]