User talk:Hyarion: Difference between revisions

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== valimar ==


== Title changes, language questions ==
Hi Hyarion, I'm one of the Founders & Bureaucrats of [http://wiki.valimar.ir/index.php?title=%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C valimar] (and also one of [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B1:PHoBiA the admins] in [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C Persian Wikipedia]). I'm glad that you setup us as your sister-site. I'll setup reciprocal links to TG articles as soon as possible. Best Regards -- [[User:PHoBiA|PHoBiA]] 19:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
``


I've read WP's article on editing, but it says nothing on changing the title. How do you change the title? I mean, I saw [[Long Horn Cotton]], I've checked the genealogies, and it's Long Hom. Some of the language headings are incorrect too - especially the [[:Category:Adûnaic_words|Adûnaic]] ones. And do we need a clearer entry on [[:Category:Rohirric_words|Rohirric]], because this is Old English and Rohirian (the word Tolkien used for it) mixed together... [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 07:13, 13 January 2008 (EST)
== Missing Gandalf edit in recent changes ==


:Hello there Ederchil, first I wanted to thank you for your recent edits, it is always nice to have a new face around and you've been doing a great job. There should be a move button next to History and you can move the article to the correct title, I've gone ahead and fixed the Long Hom Cotton article. We usually try and bring up the move on the talk page before moving, but for obvious spelling mistakes such as that one it is okay to just move it without asking.  
The database seems to have behaved strangely when I edited [[Gandalf]]. I removed the occurrences of the word "human" from the article, and couldn't load the page. However, looking in the article history, my edit is there, but it doesn't appear in "Recent changes". And strangely enough, a search for "human" on TG still yields the article "Gandalf", although the word "human" cannot be found (any longer) in the article. Maybe the issue will disappear once the database reloads or refreshes! :-)  --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
:One thing I always forget as well, when we want to link to Categories we have to add a colon in front, like <nowiki>[[:Category:Rohirric words|Rohirric]]</nowiki>, otherwise it doesn't display the text and just adds the article to said category.
:I agree with both of your statements on Adûnaic and Rohirric words, if you can try to cite your sources that would be great and we can eliminate any errors. Thanks for your input and let me know if I can help with anything at all. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:18, 13 January 2008 (EST)


== Ugluk fanfiction ==
::While you're at it, another strange page is the [[Portal:Locations/Category tree]]. This page, which has been changed to a redirect, still seems to carry an imprint in the database somehow. E.g., searching on "human" on TG makes "Portal:Locations/Category Tree" show up. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


Hyar: i'm sorry to accuse you like this but a friend of mine noticed what appears to be some extreme extrepolation in the [[Ugluk]] article. I had a check through the history and noticed that it all changed to that status with your rewrite. Now i know i dont know everything about the texts but what are your sources for Ugluk's company meeting Gollum, along with a preliminary meeting with grishnakh and specific information on how Ugluk's company came about? It's certainly not anywhere in the actual book Lord of the Rings. [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 13:48, 17 January 2008 (EST)
== what is a Tolkien Mile ? ==


:Don't be sorry! The sooner we cite everything in the articles the better. At the bottom I listed the other reference (aside from ''[[The Two Towers]]'') as "[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]], "The Departure of Boromir,", "The Uruk-hai", this is indeed where the content you brought up came from. I'd definitely recommend this book if you don't have it already. It looks like [[Wayne G. Hammond|Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull|Scull]] found this information in a "Scheme" manuscript which is an unpublished timeline of events. I know little of this manuscript so I'll do some research on it, however I have the utmost respect for Hammond and Scull. I've been holding off on citations since hopefully by the end of the month, next month at the latest, we should be running on an upgraded version of MediaWiki which will allow us to install the same citation extension which Wikipedia uses. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:05, 17 January 2008 (EST)
It seems to me that there is something wrong with using a standard (english) mile for Tolkiens Maps.  The result is a Middle Earth which is too small. Tolkien used a lot of History and Myth from other parts of Northern Europe. Could Tolkiens Mile actually be the 'Irish' mile which was used by the English in Ireland for centuries. I will get more detail if needed but I think 1 'irish' mile is equal to 1.27 'english' miles. If this were the case Middle Earth would be 27% greater in size which would be an improvement as there are a number of references to distance which only make sense if the 'english' mile is increased substantially. The 'swedish' mile is equal to 6 'english' miles which is too big. {{unsigned|Nuadamor}}<small> (00:01, 22 May 2011).</small>


:: Fair enoughski, however the question does arise: 'is it canon?' I think given the confusion that has arisen, it might be worth including a sort of 'other versions of the legendarium' or 'greater works' section in which that information is included and independently assessed since i dont think a footnote will suffice for what the casual reader (and even the dedicated reader: i really was miffed by it) might at first think to be a factual error. [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 04:17, 18 January 2008 (EST)
:If I remember correctly he used a fictional mile, the Númenorean mile. I don't remember how big that is (but I think it was, the Númenorean feet at least was), but I think it can be found at [[Unfinished Tales]]. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


== Questions on proper form (besides proper comma usage) ==
::At Oxonmoot some years ago [[Alex Lewis]] actually gave a talk saying he thought that the scale of the maps was incorrect (sadly, I can't remember by how much, or indeed, in which direction). The Númenóreans had the ''[[lár]]'' which was very slightly shorter than our league (three miles); there is no indication that Tolkien intended to use anything other than the English statute mile (defined in law since 1592) in the maps.


Articles before proper names of Ages;  should it be "in Second Age Numenor was really neat," or more like "in the Third Age the Hobbits were smoking?" It's given that particular dates within any certain age do not need a definite article (in F.A. 42 the elves all sailed the ocean blue) but I'm not sure which way I should format the other.  Also, is there any way to flag articles that are in the process of major rewrites so that we are not doubling efforts?  Lastly, if I just happened to be a great gift giver, would you and eight of your friends each want to recieve a nice piece of jewelry? [[User:Singe|Singe]] 00:38, 28 January 2008 (EST)
::(I should point out, there is the "Old English mile" which was variously longer than the statute mile - about 1.3 statute miles - but why would Tolkien logically use a different measure?) --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


:"the Third Age" is the correct usage vs. simply "Third Age" and yes, you don't need to use "the" if you are stating a specific year of the age. Hm, flagging articles that are in the process of being rewritten is a good idea, until we create a template for such a notice, feel free to just mention so on the article's talk page. I think I would have to double check the possession of the jewelry didn't cause me to turn into a wraith and become controlled by a dark lord before accepting such a thing (sounds an awful lot like an engagement ring...) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 00:58, 28 January 2008 (EST)
:::Tolkien’s discussion of the [[Lár|Númenórean league]] refered to by Amroth can be found in the appendix ‘Númenórean linear measures’ in {{UT|Gladden}} - it is 5000 [[ranga]]r of about 38 (imperial) inches, and therefor nearly equal to one statute league of 5280 yards (= three statute miles). It seems this can be taken as evidence that, certainly around the time of the revision of [[The Lord of the Rings]], Tolkien was regarding distances in his [[legendarium]] as described (approximately) in statute leagues and miles.
:::However, in {{HM|RC}}, (on pp. 22-23 in the 2005 hardbound edition), Tolkien’s notes on two attempts at devising a Hobbit system of linear measures can be found. In one of these attempts he arrives as longest measure at a ‘long mile, or gait mile’, or ‘yong-mile or longmile’ of 2,304 imperial yards. That is certainly very nearly equal to 1.3 statute miles, and so these attempts may be related to the ‘Old English mile’ mentioned by Mith. (There is also a ‘(short) mile, or pace-mile’ of half this length, 1,152 imperial yards.)
:::But in the other attempt he arrives at a different type of mile, namely one of 1,600 imperial yards, thus being somewhat shorter than the statute mile. And it is only in this attempt that the term ‘league’ is mentioned as containing 3 of these miles. That is in my opinion an obstacle to any supposition that a ‘long’ or ‘Old English’ mile could have been intended in the text of The Lord of the Rings. In fact, all linear measures used in that work are such as were in normal use in the imperial system when Tolkien grew up: inch, foot, ell, fathom, furlong, mile and league; and of these only foot, mile and league turn up in his attempts at a Hobbit system of measures.
:::And finally, I have never found any reason to consider Tolkien’s Middle-earth as mapped too small. I would be interested in knowing why [[Alex Lewis]] thinks so (or at least thought so a couple of years ago). In fact had Mith said so a week earlier, I would have asked Alex, since I had ample opportunity to discuss it with him over the last weekend. [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


==A picture my-bad==
::::I would have been unable to posts that had not yet been made! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:38, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Could you delete this: Image:20070902204908!Arda.gif? I re-uploaded it with a better name. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:24, 8 February 2008 (EST)


:No worries, fixed :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:10, 8 February 2008 (EST)
:::::Well, of course! I was trying to imply that I wished Nuadamor had posed his question earlier, and you had then replied as promptly as you in fact did, but I got a bit convoluted and cut too much from my sentence. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:17, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


== Picture ==
== TG is a thoroughly enjoyable read! ==


Thank you for the thumbnail! I couldn't figure that out! -Ingwe
Hyarion, just wanted to say that this is an excellent Tolkien site and it has been a pleasure to read some of the articles I have come across so far. I can see that a great deal of time and effort has gone into making the site what it is today, a professional-looking, informative and well-built engine of encyclopaedic Tolkien knowledge. I have even been inspired for my own wiki (not Tolkien related) by the way articles and templates have been put together. The skin is amazing too; wish I had something unique instead of the plain vector skin.


:No problem, wiki-code takes some getting used to, but once you get the hang of it , it all makes sense :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:18, 9 February 2008 (EST)
Do keep up the good work. [[User:Kerchi|Kerchi]] 10:13, 30 May 2011 (UTC)


== Two Trees  ==
:Hi Kerchi, thanks so much for your compliments! It's in feedback like yours which makes it all worth it. We look forward to seeing you around. If you have any questions or suggestions feel free to let me know. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
::You're welcome. I can see that quality has been an important driving force for those who have put this site together and believe me I know how difficult it can be what with running my own wiki, so I intend to keep having a look around and read a few more articles. --[[User:Kerchi|<span style="color:#183a55">'''Kerchi'''</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Kerchi|<span style="color:#aaaaaa">'''talk'''</span>]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Kerchi|<span style="color:#aaaaaa">'''contribs'''</span>]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Editcount/Kerchi/Edits|<span style="color:#aaaaaa">'''edits'''</span>]]</sup></small> 22:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)


Please add recent Two Trees of Valinor image to Roger Garland's image page. -Ingwe
== Dictionary-style searches ==


:It looks like Ederchil beat me to it. If you ever want to add images to a category just add something like this to the bottom of the page: <nowiki>[[Category:Images by Artist name]]</nowiki> --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:46, 9 February 2008 (EST)
Being able to search for the English translation of a specific Elvish word (or in any other invented language) would be very useful! Would it be difficult to implement something like this?


::Yeah, I figured that out right after I asked you. I have just finished categorizing my recent uploads and linking their summaries with related articles. -Ingwe
To exemplify: let's say I wanted to know if Tolkien invented some word for "alphabet". I just type "alphabet" in a search box, which would take me to a "disambig" article suggesting me to read either an article on Noldorin ''tiwdi'' or on Quenya ''tengwanda''.


==Main Page==
Perhaps we can implement this in the current "disambiguation" system (but we would get a huge amount of disambig articles, though!)?
Isn't it time for a new featured article? Or a new quote? These are on forever. Because of the new Hobbit movie, maybe [[Bilbo Baggins]]? -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 09:32, 11 February 2008 (EST)


:Definitely, one option is to have the article/quote be random from a pre-chosen list of options, and the other is to vote on a new article/quote every week or month. The difficult part with voting is we need to have at least a fair amount of people voting, we might have almost enough editors for that at the moment so maybe we should start working on the process, I'll see if we can launch something with the new skin. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 18:13, 13 February 2008 (EST)
--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)


::Actually, when I read the article after I posted, I noticed "stay tuned for April 17th". How outdated. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 09:19, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:Sounds like a good idea. Maybe it should get an own namespace, so there won't be too much disambigs. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 11:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)


==Pics on TolkienGateway==
::Maybe something to discuss in a meeting?--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Hello Hyarion, we from Ardapedia are wondering what type of license you use for pictures in TolkienGateway, do you ask for permission from each drawer him/herself? Do you use the common GNU-License like in Wikipedia? We would really like to get and add some new pictures on Ardapedia, but we strictly use licenses (like GNU, PD, and in some cases "copyrighted pics with the permission of the author"), thanks for your answer, --[[User:Sinthoras|Sinthoras]] 11:05, 13 February 2008 (EST)


:Hey there Sinthoras. One thing we definitely need to work on adding is licenses to all the images, as the licenses vary. We try to contact all of the artists for permission before uploading any of their work and so far I think everyone has stated as long as we aren't for-profit, credit them, and link back to their website, etc. then it's fine, we've yet to have someone not allow the images to be displayed. When we don't hear back or are unable to contact/find an artist we upload the images as "Fair use". I would recommend contacting the artists and asking for permission if you can as they tend to want to know who is using their images and I don't know of any that are available under the GNU FDL. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 18:21, 13 February 2008 (EST)
::This could be a nice basis for a Portal:Languages, don't you think?


==Epessi and Epithets==
::I'm also thinking that if we add an alphabetically-based category to all invented words, we would have both an English-Elvish(et al) and an Elvish(et al)-English list of words. Another solution could perhaps be to have a certain namespace, like "Dictionary Index:A", "Dictionary Index:B", etc, as a complement to the current Index namespace.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Is there any policy on including these in the article's title? It's obviously the case when dealing with disambigs, like [[Beren Erchamion]], [[Túrin Turambar]] or [[Dior Eluchil]]. However, it's unclear in the case of the kings of Rohan: compare [[Brytta Léofa]] and [[Fréaláf Hildeson]] with [[Théoden]] (not "Théoden Ednew"), and [[Éomer]] (not "Éomer Éadig"). Nor is it the case with [[Borondir]] ("Borondir Udalraph"). IMO it would look more "professional" if we would include such epithets and epessi in the title. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 13:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)


:Good question. I don't have a problem with adding them, as obviously we would include redirects from the common name. Up until this point we have tried to just use whatever name was mentioned the most in Tolkien's text as this is what the most people would be familiar with. My only concern would be it would turn a large percentage of links to Théoden, Éomer, etc. into links to redirects, and we probably don't want to bother with typing <nowiki>[[Théoden Ednew|Théoden]]</nowiki>. It also might add, if only minimally, some confusion for those who aren't familiar with "Théoden Ednew" or "Éomer Éadig". However these aren't huge negatives and if everyone else thinks it would be a good idea then I'm all for it. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:46, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::Noting old discussion: [[Forum:Elvish-English and English-Elvish entries]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


==Translations==
== Start article name with lower-case letters? ==
I was disussing this with someone: there's apparently no good place where the names of all the characters and places are in translations of the book. I only found [http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_vertalingen_van_Engelse_namen_in_Arda this] on Dutch Wikipedia (presumably, other language wiki's have lists too). We already have such a list at Frodo, should we include such lists at other characters as well? <br>
Also, did you know [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_and_Leopard-Walk-Up-to-Dragon#Inspirations this]? Definately worth some research. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:46, 26 February 2008 (EST)


:I think it would be worth noting the translations of the character's name in the article, and I definitely think an article which lists all of the translations would be a great idea. What should we call the article, "Translations"? The Harry Potter book is hilarious and I hadn't realized it was a rip off of The Hobbit until now, while probably not worth its own article, we should probably find some place to put that information. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 18:16, 28 February 2008 (EST)
Would it be possible to do a tech tweak in order to create article names with lower-case letters? IMHO, this would be great for the linguistic articles on words - a standard which also Wiktionary uses. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


::What we could also do is make separate pages for all the translations (with a cat:Translations), including information on publishing date, company, translator, and characters. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 10:04, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:All articles have to begin with a capital letter (that's a technical limitation which can't be changed). You can use DISPLAYTITLE in order to make it appear as if they begin with a lower-case letter, however (see this working in [[TG:Sandbox]] right now). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:13, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


:::I guess it just depends on how much of a conflict there is between different translations of the same name by different translators into the same language. My idea would be to have a universal article such as ''Translations'' that has a table with them all. One thing we definitely need is, not necessarily an article for every foreign edition, but at least one article for every language for now, so something like ''Chinese editions of The Lord of the Rings'' seems logical. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 18:42, 3 March 2008 (EST)
::Thanks, I'll bring it up at the meeting, to see if it's a good idea or not.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


==Referencing==
:::I tried the code DISPLAYTITLE in the article [[brand (word)]], and I noticed that you can also remove the bracketed word - is this preferable or not? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:51, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


I would appreciate much if you could turn on the <ref> tag. It would be nice to add where the details were found when writing/rewriting an article.
== Long articles ==
-- nikolet 00:42, 27 February 2008 (EST)


:Just me bursting in Hyar's talk: I usually ref with <nowiki><sup>[[#References|1]]</sup></nowiki>. It's a lot of typing, but gets more or less the required result. We should really get a standard referencing, btw. I think [[Denethor II#References|this]] ([[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil]]'s, I believe) should be standard. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:34, 27 February 2008 (EST)
What is causing the problem with the "long" articles? It's impossible for me to save an edit on "Eriador". However, another long article, "J.R.R. Tolkien", causes no problems.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)


::Well, we may as well discuss the templates for referencing then. I prefer to make citations up to the footnote # or para #, when I [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%ABanorian_lamp edit]. How about we have a discussion on the said topic on the irc server, this Saturday? We may as well discuss the finer points of templates such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:ME-date this] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:ME-ref this] -- nikolet 20:37, 27 February 2008 (EST)
== Adding to List of Arda Encyclopedia ==


:::I can't seem to find where we had the earlier discussion on this but for now we should follow Narfil's lead and just use the reference system as used in [[Denethor II]], but as soon as we upgrade the MediaWiki engine (during my Spring break is the goal) we'll be using the same ref system that Wikipedia uses. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 18:46, 3 March 2008 (EST)
Hi Hyarion. I'm one of the [http://wiki.valimar.ir Valimar] administrators. The Biggest Persian Encyclopedia about Arda and Tolkien. I want you to add us in the list of Arda Encyclopedia.(in this [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/List_of_Tolkien_Encyclopedias page]).


::::I've made an doc of what I think is a good way to reference (which was what I originally meant), which should bring some uniformity in [[Tolkien_Gateway:Standards#References|referencing]]. The current system is vague, and looking at some entries ([[Constellations]], for one) not very well followed. I can mail it to you if you're interested, or post it on my own namespace ( [[User:Ederchil/Referencing]] or something). -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:47, 6 March 2008 (EST)
I have to say we are your sister site.


==Polystone statues==
Best Regards.
Is there really any reason for so many pages to exist solely for the advertisment of statues from the Peter Jackson films? It seems, well...stupid. However, I didn't feel it would be prudent to just delete them without asking. [[User:CharlesMartel|CharlesMartel]] 21:59, 21 March 2008 (EDT)CharlesMartel


:Hey there Charles. There really isn't any site that includes details of the vast number of collectibles relating to [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s works, and we wanted some place where a fan could go to find all the information in one place. The statues category has a long way to go and eventually along with our [[:Category:Calendars|calendars]] and [[:Category:Books|books]] categories we hope to list every collectible that has been produced. We also plan on having an article for all of the games that have been created which relate to Tolkien as well. If in the future the community feels the presence of the collectibles/games/etc hurt the lore articles then it is possible we could separate them more and move the articles to a different namespace or sub-wiki. Right now they are definitely a lower priority but as many fans have shown an interest in collecting we wanted to make sure the information was available. Thanks for your input! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:08, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
:Welcome! No problem, your encyclopedia has been added to the list. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


== Screenplays ==
== Tolkien Gateway email addresses ==


I was astounded to see that you have articles for the screenplays of Peter Jackson's LOTR and was wondering how you procured them. [[User:Seagrave|Seagrave]] 07:10, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
Hi Hyarion! You promised to look into the prospect of Tolkien Gateway email addresses; has there been any progress? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 15:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


:Yeah, me too, and since they're both orphaned AND dead-end, maybe we should link them to the movie articles. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 07:33, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
:Hey KA! Yes, I think Google Apps (Free) is going to be our best option. It's halfway setup and the plan is to have it fully functional by the upcoming meeting. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]


::There's quite a few websites with the screenplays, I can't seem to recall exactly where I found them. I'm not sure if they are 100% accurate but they seem pretty close. As it is fairly common to see the scripts for sale at various places I'm guessing they were officially released at some point. I haven't seen any requests to have them taken down so I believe showcasing them constitutes as fair use. I definitely think it would be better if more people knew about them as a wiki is a fairly good medium for collaborative screenplay editing. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:01, 24 March 2008 (EDT)
::Awesome! I look forward to it! :) --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 14:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


=="Sauron or Morgoth?"?==
:::Is it done yet? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 12:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
A pity I never got to read that. The title sparked my curiosity, what was it about? -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:35, 27 March 2008 (EDT)


:MediaWiki knew you were going to ask that question :) so what you can do is click on the red link, and click "View or restore 2 deleted edits" and you can view the text. ([http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=Sauron_or_Morgoth%3F&timestamp=20080327003701 or click here]) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:19, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Was I ignored? :( --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


::Perhaps ''you'' can, as admin ... I just got the edit page. And that link isn't working either! (Gives a "Permission Error".) ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 17:40, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
==TS permission==
Hi! I noticed that the Amon Hen articles carry the sentence "Reprinted by kind permission of The Tolkien Society and the named cover artist(s) - all rights reserved." What exactly does this refer to? I'm pretty sure that cover images and a description of the contents goes under fair use for educational purposes in any country...? Can this "permission" be removed, or moved to a copyright page (as it looks kind of strange in the context of the individual articles)? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


::Same here. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 17:54, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
:I believe the wording came from [[Andrew Butler]] who went to great lengths to make sure even the individual artists were okay with having their cover art displayed on the wiki. I'd agree though that the content most likely falls under fair use and a more minor notation would be suitable. I think some statement is worth having if only to illustrate the extra steps taken to consider the copyright holders. -- [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]


:::D'oh, I forgot about that. I'll see if I can get that changed so anyone can see deleted edits. The article was a paragraph attempting to persuade people into believing Sauron was more powerful than Morgoth. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:25, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
::Alright. I'll try to remember to bring the issue up at a meeting. Thanks for quick answer! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


::::The Gateway is probably not the place ''to discuss'' Tolkien, but it can be argued, that Sauron at some point was indeed more powerful. IIRC, Tolkien stated something along those lines somewhere. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 04:19, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
== Numenor ==


==New skin==
Isn't [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Athelas&oldid=186732 this] strange? This old version yields a redlink to "Númenor". --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:32, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
I like the new skin... a soft, gentle colour blue. I prefer that over the white boxes. I do think the font size, especially in the infobox, could be little bit bigger, though. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:35, 15 April 2008 (EDT)


==TV==
: And [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/wiki/N%C3%BAmen%CE%BFr this] is even more strange, while the [[Númenor|real article]] still exists. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 20:17, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for deleting "TV". I've come across that page in both my Dead-end and my Uncategorized cleanup without really knowing what to do with it. Similar case for "[[Reviews - Movies]]", the (now) oldest page. What do we do with that? Include Rottentomatoes at the corresponding movie articles and dump the rest? -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 13:07, 26 April 2008 (EDT)


:I still would like to do something related to "Television". Possibly listing the upcoming times at which a Tolkien-related film will be shown and linking to past televised videos, but the article was far below our standards. A specific article for reviews of all films is most likely not necessary as we can link to popular or lengthy fan-made reviews (which RT doesn't link to) on the respected film article. If the list becomes too long we can create a sub-page or an article for reviews of Film X, but a global article isn't going to be very useful and far too lengthy. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 13:16, 26 April 2008 (EDT)
::Hm, definitely must be the way the symbol is translated and encoded. I'll do some research. Good catch! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


== Admins on TG ==
== Editing Rise of the Witch King Game Campaign Details ==


I was checking for admins on this Wiki, and I didn't find any. Certainly a cadre of Admins is necessary for a this Wiki's development. You're doing a bang-up job, but I think you need some high-level support. As a moderate contributor, I think we should encourage people to make this kind of committment and get more deeply involved. --[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 19:06, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
I want to edit campaign details for the ROTWK game.There is a mistake in the last sentence.It is Prince Earnur who destroyed the Witch King not King Arveleg I.Can i have the permission to change the name of the King?? --[[User:Antoinevlah|Antoinevlah]] 17:24, 4 March 2012 (UTC)


:I do think we have a lower-than-most ratio of admins to users, but on wikis admins are more like janitors and there aren't many benefits aside from blocking users or protecting pages, something we do so little here that I don't think I've noticed much need for more janitors. I've also found in various communities the more moderators/admins the more drama there seems to be. That being said, I always have my eyes open and as TG grows we will definitely be adding more admins. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:20, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
:If this is true, then please go ahead and edit the page.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)


== World map ==
==On Battle of the Crossings of Poros==


As I could not find either an article or a talk page for the recently added interactive [http://tolkiengateway.net/map/ world map], I've decide to flag the gaffes (one major and one minor) that I found on it here.
I contacted you on this subject because you created the page and I was not able to create a discussion on it. This page is a complete copy from the page at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/fordsofporos.html--[[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]] 15:08, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
* Tolkien never studied at the '''Exeter College''' in Exeter, Devon, UK, since it only exists since 1970[http://www.exe-coll.ac.uk/College/History.aspx]. To judge from its website, it looks more like a senior highschool than a university college. The Exeter College[http://www.exeter.ox.ac.uk/][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exeter_College,_Oxford] Tolkien studied at is part of Oxford University, and is thus in Oxford, England.
 
* The map gives '''King Edward School'''[http://www.kes.bham.sch.uk/], Birmingham, UK, in its ''present'' location in Kings Heath, but when Tolkien was a pupil there (a century ago now!) it was located right in the city centre, in New Street, in premises that no longer exist[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Edward%27s_School%2C_Birmingham#History].
:We know about the copies, we're working on correcting them. If you find any other, just let us know. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
-- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 19:58, 1 May 2008 (EDT)
 
:Thanks for catching that [[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]]. There are still a few articles out there which do not adhere to our current standards. We will rectify this specific article as soon as possible, and as Ederchil mentioned, if you happen to stumble upon any others just let someone know. Thanks for your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:40, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 
== Need Sumner Contact re: Bernie Zuber item ==
 
Sumner,
 
This is my second attempt to contact you through this website. And I'm not sure you are Hyarion -- but whoever is will know how to get this message to you.
 
I am Teny's friend Anita Farley who auctioned Bernie Zuber's collection after his death. My email address has changed, and I have lost yours in the process.  
 
My new private email is: pippygpupp (at) charter (dot) net.
 
Please contact me. It is regarding a very rare item I still have from Bernie's collection.
 
Thank you,
Anita
 
:Hi Anita, I apologize as I'm afraid I will be of no help, I'm not sure who Sumner is. Sorry! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 
== Jeremy Bennett Helms Deep Art Misattributed ==
 
Hyarion,
You submitted artwork which is attributed to the wrong artist. The Jeremy Bennett Helm's Deep file is actually artwork by Paul Lasaine.  See the links below:
[http://lasaineportfolio.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-11-13T21:57:00-08:00&max-results=7&start=21&by-date=false Paul Lasaine Helm's Deep]
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOTR-MASTER-WORKS-CONCEPT-ARTWORK-HELMS-DEEP-by-JEREMY-BENNETT-/250967454327 Jeremy Bennett Helm's Deep]
Note that Bennett's image has an encampment in the foreground.
 
Thought you should know so you can make the appropriate edits.
Sincerely,
[[User:Emlit|Emlit]] 03:40, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 
== hey! ==
 
thanks for dropping a line, i was also just curious if you wanted me to work on anything in particular? preferably work from video games or appendices, but anything else at all is good too. except for the history of middle earth (for now) as i don't have that yet! just let me know and i will start off o your "mission"! Thanks!
 
[[User:Bigb131999|Bigb131999]] 02:53, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 
== Images ==
 
Are all the images on [[Comic-Con 2006|here]] yours, or did you grab them from somewhere else? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:06, 19 August 2014

Archive
Archives
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Welcome to Hyarion's talk page.

valimar

Hi Hyarion, I'm one of the Founders & Bureaucrats of valimar (and also one of the admins in Persian Wikipedia). I'm glad that you setup us as your sister-site. I'll setup reciprocal links to TG articles as soon as possible. Best Regards -- PHoBiA 19:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC) ``Reply[reply]

Missing Gandalf edit in recent changes

The database seems to have behaved strangely when I edited Gandalf. I removed the occurrences of the word "human" from the article, and couldn't load the page. However, looking in the article history, my edit is there, but it doesn't appear in "Recent changes". And strangely enough, a search for "human" on TG still yields the article "Gandalf", although the word "human" cannot be found (any longer) in the article. Maybe the issue will disappear once the database reloads or refreshes! :-) --Morgan 23:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

While you're at it, another strange page is the Portal:Locations/Category tree. This page, which has been changed to a redirect, still seems to carry an imprint in the database somehow. E.g., searching on "human" on TG makes "Portal:Locations/Category Tree" show up. --Morgan 23:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

what is a Tolkien Mile ?

It seems to me that there is something wrong with using a standard (english) mile for Tolkiens Maps. The result is a Middle Earth which is too small. Tolkien used a lot of History and Myth from other parts of Northern Europe. Could Tolkiens Mile actually be the 'Irish' mile which was used by the English in Ireland for centuries. I will get more detail if needed but I think 1 'irish' mile is equal to 1.27 'english' miles. If this were the case Middle Earth would be 27% greater in size which would be an improvement as there are a number of references to distance which only make sense if the 'english' mile is increased substantially. The 'swedish' mile is equal to 6 'english' miles which is too big. Unsigned comment by Nuadamor (talk • contribs). (00:01, 22 May 2011).

If I remember correctly he used a fictional mile, the Númenorean mile. I don't remember how big that is (but I think it was, the Númenorean feet at least was), but I think it can be found at Unfinished Tales. --Amroth 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
At Oxonmoot some years ago Alex Lewis actually gave a talk saying he thought that the scale of the maps was incorrect (sadly, I can't remember by how much, or indeed, in which direction). The Númenóreans had the lár which was very slightly shorter than our league (three miles); there is no indication that Tolkien intended to use anything other than the English statute mile (defined in law since 1592) in the maps.
(I should point out, there is the "Old English mile" which was variously longer than the statute mile - about 1.3 statute miles - but why would Tolkien logically use a different measure?) --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Tolkien’s discussion of the Númenórean league refered to by Amroth can be found in the appendix ‘Númenórean linear measures’ in J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Unfinished Tales, "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" - it is 5000 rangar of about 38 (imperial) inches, and therefor nearly equal to one statute league of 5280 yards (= three statute miles). It seems this can be taken as evidence that, certainly around the time of the revision of The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien was regarding distances in his legendarium as described (approximately) in statute leagues and miles.
However, in Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull (eds), The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion, (on pp. 22-23 in the 2005 hardbound edition), Tolkien’s notes on two attempts at devising a Hobbit system of linear measures can be found. In one of these attempts he arrives as longest measure at a ‘long mile, or gait mile’, or ‘yong-mile or longmile’ of 2,304 imperial yards. That is certainly very nearly equal to 1.3 statute miles, and so these attempts may be related to the ‘Old English mile’ mentioned by Mith. (There is also a ‘(short) mile, or pace-mile’ of half this length, 1,152 imperial yards.)
But in the other attempt he arrives at a different type of mile, namely one of 1,600 imperial yards, thus being somewhat shorter than the statute mile. And it is only in this attempt that the term ‘league’ is mentioned as containing 3 of these miles. That is in my opinion an obstacle to any supposition that a ‘long’ or ‘Old English’ mile could have been intended in the text of The Lord of the Rings. In fact, all linear measures used in that work are such as were in normal use in the imperial system when Tolkien grew up: inch, foot, ell, fathom, furlong, mile and league; and of these only foot, mile and league turn up in his attempts at a Hobbit system of measures.
And finally, I have never found any reason to consider Tolkien’s Middle-earth as mapped too small. I would be interested in knowing why Alex Lewis thinks so (or at least thought so a couple of years ago). In fact had Mith said so a week earlier, I would have asked Alex, since I had ample opportunity to discuss it with him over the last weekend. — Mithrennaith 04:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I would have been unable to posts that had not yet been made! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:38, 27 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, of course! I was trying to imply that I wished Nuadamor had posed his question earlier, and you had then replied as promptly as you in fact did, but I got a bit convoluted and cut too much from my sentence. — Mithrennaith 04:17, 28 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

TG is a thoroughly enjoyable read!

Hyarion, just wanted to say that this is an excellent Tolkien site and it has been a pleasure to read some of the articles I have come across so far. I can see that a great deal of time and effort has gone into making the site what it is today, a professional-looking, informative and well-built engine of encyclopaedic Tolkien knowledge. I have even been inspired for my own wiki (not Tolkien related) by the way articles and templates have been put together. The skin is amazing too; wish I had something unique instead of the plain vector skin.

Do keep up the good work. Kerchi 10:13, 30 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Kerchi, thanks so much for your compliments! It's in feedback like yours which makes it all worth it. We look forward to seeing you around. If you have any questions or suggestions feel free to let me know. --Hyarion 22:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You're welcome. I can see that quality has been an important driving force for those who have put this site together and believe me I know how difficult it can be what with running my own wiki, so I intend to keep having a look around and read a few more articles. --Kerchi  talk | contribs | edits 22:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Dictionary-style searches

Being able to search for the English translation of a specific Elvish word (or in any other invented language) would be very useful! Would it be difficult to implement something like this?

To exemplify: let's say I wanted to know if Tolkien invented some word for "alphabet". I just type "alphabet" in a search box, which would take me to a "disambig" article suggesting me to read either an article on Noldorin tiwdi or on Quenya tengwanda.

Perhaps we can implement this in the current "disambiguation" system (but we would get a huge amount of disambig articles, though!)?

--Morgan 11:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sounds like a good idea. Maybe it should get an own namespace, so there won't be too much disambigs. --Amroth 11:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Maybe something to discuss in a meeting?--Morgan 12:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This could be a nice basis for a Portal:Languages, don't you think?
I'm also thinking that if we add an alphabetically-based category to all invented words, we would have both an English-Elvish(et al) and an Elvish(et al)-English list of words. Another solution could perhaps be to have a certain namespace, like "Dictionary Index:A", "Dictionary Index:B", etc, as a complement to the current Index namespace.--Morgan 12:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Noting old discussion: Forum:Elvish-English and English-Elvish entries --Morgan 21:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Start article name with lower-case letters?

Would it be possible to do a tech tweak in order to create article names with lower-case letters? IMHO, this would be great for the linguistic articles on words - a standard which also Wiktionary uses. --Morgan 09:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

All articles have to begin with a capital letter (that's a technical limitation which can't be changed). You can use DISPLAYTITLE in order to make it appear as if they begin with a lower-case letter, however (see this working in TG:Sandbox right now). --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:13, 3 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, I'll bring it up at the meeting, to see if it's a good idea or not.--Morgan 11:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I tried the code DISPLAYTITLE in the article brand (word), and I noticed that you can also remove the bracketed word - is this preferable or not? --Morgan 22:51, 3 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Long articles

What is causing the problem with the "long" articles? It's impossible for me to save an edit on "Eriador". However, another long article, "J.R.R. Tolkien", causes no problems.--Morgan 09:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Adding to List of Arda Encyclopedia

Hi Hyarion. I'm one of the Valimar administrators. The Biggest Persian Encyclopedia about Arda and Tolkien. I want you to add us in the list of Arda Encyclopedia.(in this page).

I have to say we are your sister site.

Best Regards.

Welcome! No problem, your encyclopedia has been added to the list. --Hyarion 01:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tolkien Gateway email addresses

Hi Hyarion! You promised to look into the prospect of Tolkien Gateway email addresses; has there been any progress? -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  15:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hey KA! Yes, I think Google Apps (Free) is going to be our best option. It's halfway setup and the plan is to have it fully functional by the upcoming meeting. --Hyarion
Awesome! I look forward to it! :) -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  14:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is it done yet? -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  12:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Was I ignored? :( -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  22:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

TS permission

Hi! I noticed that the Amon Hen articles carry the sentence "Reprinted by kind permission of The Tolkien Society and the named cover artist(s) - all rights reserved." What exactly does this refer to? I'm pretty sure that cover images and a description of the contents goes under fair use for educational purposes in any country...? Can this "permission" be removed, or moved to a copyright page (as it looks kind of strange in the context of the individual articles)? --Morgan 18:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I believe the wording came from Andrew Butler who went to great lengths to make sure even the individual artists were okay with having their cover art displayed on the wiki. I'd agree though that the content most likely falls under fair use and a more minor notation would be suitable. I think some statement is worth having if only to illustrate the extra steps taken to consider the copyright holders. -- Hyarion
Alright. I'll try to remember to bring the issue up at a meeting. Thanks for quick answer! --Morgan 18:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Numenor

Isn't this strange? This old version yields a redlink to "Númenor". --Morgan 16:32, 22 February 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And this is even more strange, while the real article still exists. --Amroth 20:17, 22 February 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hm, definitely must be the way the symbol is translated and encoded. I'll do some research. Good catch! --Hyarion 02:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Editing Rise of the Witch King Game Campaign Details

I want to edit campaign details for the ROTWK game.There is a mistake in the last sentence.It is Prince Earnur who destroyed the Witch King not King Arveleg I.Can i have the permission to change the name of the King?? --Antoinevlah 17:24, 4 March 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If this is true, then please go ahead and edit the page.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  17:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

On Battle of the Crossings of Poros

I contacted you on this subject because you created the page and I was not able to create a discussion on it. This page is a complete copy from the page at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/fordsofporos.html--108.11.228.65 15:08, 28 April 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We know about the copies, we're working on correcting them. If you find any other, just let us know. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for catching that 108.11.228.65. There are still a few articles out there which do not adhere to our current standards. We will rectify this specific article as soon as possible, and as Ederchil mentioned, if you happen to stumble upon any others just let someone know. Thanks for your help! --Hyarion 16:40, 28 April 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Need Sumner Contact re: Bernie Zuber item

Sumner,

This is my second attempt to contact you through this website. And I'm not sure you are Hyarion -- but whoever is will know how to get this message to you.

I am Teny's friend Anita Farley who auctioned Bernie Zuber's collection after his death. My email address has changed, and I have lost yours in the process.

My new private email is: pippygpupp (at) charter (dot) net.

Please contact me. It is regarding a very rare item I still have from Bernie's collection.

Thank you, Anita

Hi Anita, I apologize as I'm afraid I will be of no help, I'm not sure who Sumner is. Sorry! --Hyarion 02:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Jeremy Bennett Helms Deep Art Misattributed

Hyarion,

You submitted artwork which is attributed to the wrong artist. The Jeremy Bennett Helm's Deep file is actually artwork by Paul Lasaine. See the links below:

Paul Lasaine Helm's Deep

Jeremy Bennett Helm's Deep

Note that Bennett's image has an encampment in the foreground.

Thought you should know so you can make the appropriate edits.

Sincerely,

Emlit 03:40, 20 October 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

hey!

thanks for dropping a line, i was also just curious if you wanted me to work on anything in particular? preferably work from video games or appendices, but anything else at all is good too. except for the history of middle earth (for now) as i don't have that yet! just let me know and i will start off o your "mission"! Thanks!

Bigb131999 02:53, 6 July 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Images

Are all the images on here yours, or did you grab them from somewhere else? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]