User talk:Hyarion

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Welcome to Hyarion's talk page.


Title changes, language questions

I've read WP's article on editing, but it says nothing on changing the title. How do you change the title? I mean, I saw Long Horn Cotton, I've checked the genealogies, and it's Long Hom. Some of the language headings are incorrect too - especially the Adûnaic ones. And do we need a clearer entry on Rohirric, because this is Old English and Rohirian (the word Tolkien used for it) mixed together... Ederchil 07:13, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Hello there Ederchil, first I wanted to thank you for your recent edits, it is always nice to have a new face around and you've been doing a great job. There should be a move button next to History and you can move the article to the correct title, I've gone ahead and fixed the Long Hom Cotton article. We usually try and bring up the move on the talk page before moving, but for obvious spelling mistakes such as that one it is okay to just move it without asking.
One thing I always forget as well, when we want to link to Categories we have to add a colon in front, like [[:Category:Rohirric words|Rohirric]], otherwise it doesn't display the text and just adds the article to said category.
I agree with both of your statements on Adûnaic and Rohirric words, if you can try to cite your sources that would be great and we can eliminate any errors. Thanks for your input and let me know if I can help with anything at all. --Hyarion 14:18, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Ugluk fanfiction

Hyar: i'm sorry to accuse you like this but a friend of mine noticed what appears to be some extreme extrepolation in the Ugluk article. I had a check through the history and noticed that it all changed to that status with your rewrite. Now i know i dont know everything about the texts but what are your sources for Ugluk's company meeting Gollum, along with a preliminary meeting with grishnakh and specific information on how Ugluk's company came about? It's certainly not anywhere in the actual book Lord of the Rings. Dr Death 13:48, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Don't be sorry! The sooner we cite everything in the articles the better. At the bottom I listed the other reference (aside from The Two Towers) as "The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion, "The Departure of Boromir,", "The Uruk-hai", this is indeed where the content you brought up came from. I'd definitely recommend this book if you don't have it already. It looks like Hammond and Scull found this information in a "Scheme" manuscript which is an unpublished timeline of events. I know little of this manuscript so I'll do some research on it, however I have the utmost respect for Hammond and Scull. I've been holding off on citations since hopefully by the end of the month, next month at the latest, we should be running on an upgraded version of MediaWiki which will allow us to install the same citation extension which Wikipedia uses. --Hyarion 14:05, 17 January 2008 (EST)
Fair enoughski, however the question does arise: 'is it canon?' I think given the confusion that has arisen, it might be worth including a sort of 'other versions of the legendarium' or 'greater works' section in which that information is included and independently assessed since i dont think a footnote will suffice for what the casual reader (and even the dedicated reader: i really was miffed by it) might at first think to be a factual error. Dr Death 04:17, 18 January 2008 (EST)

Questions on proper form (besides proper comma usage)

Articles before proper names of Ages; should it be "in Second Age Numenor was really neat," or more like "in the Third Age the Hobbits were smoking?" It's given that particular dates within any certain age do not need a definite article (in F.A. 42 the elves all sailed the ocean blue) but I'm not sure which way I should format the other. Also, is there any way to flag articles that are in the process of major rewrites so that we are not doubling efforts? Lastly, if I just happened to be a great gift giver, would you and eight of your friends each want to recieve a nice piece of jewelry? Singe 00:38, 28 January 2008 (EST)

"the Third Age" is the correct usage vs. simply "Third Age" and yes, you don't need to use "the" if you are stating a specific year of the age. Hm, flagging articles that are in the process of being rewritten is a good idea, until we create a template for such a notice, feel free to just mention so on the article's talk page. I think I would have to double check the possession of the jewelry didn't cause me to turn into a wraith and become controlled by a dark lord before accepting such a thing (sounds an awful lot like an engagement ring...) --Hyarion 00:58, 28 January 2008 (EST)

A picture my-bad

Could you delete this: Image:20070902204908!Arda.gif? I re-uploaded it with a better name. -- Ederchil 15:24, 8 February 2008 (EST)

No worries, fixed :) --Hyarion 16:10, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Picture

Thank you for the thumbnail! I couldn't figure that out! -Ingwe

No problem, wiki-code takes some getting used to, but once you get the hang of it , it all makes sense :) --Hyarion 01:18, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Two Trees

Please add recent Two Trees of Valinor image to Roger Garland's image page. -Ingwe

It looks like Ederchil beat me to it. If you ever want to add images to a category just add something like this to the bottom of the page: [[Category:Images by Artist name]] --Hyarion 17:46, 9 February 2008 (EST)
Yeah, I figured that out right after I asked you. I have just finished categorizing my recent uploads and linking their summaries with related articles. -Ingwe

Main Page

Isn't it time for a new featured article? Or a new quote? These are on forever. Because of the new Hobbit movie, maybe Bilbo Baggins? -- Ederchil 09:32, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Definitely, one option is to have the article/quote be random from a pre-chosen list of options, and the other is to vote on a new article/quote every week or month. The difficult part with voting is we need to have at least a fair amount of people voting, we might have almost enough editors for that at the moment so maybe we should start working on the process, I'll see if we can launch something with the new skin. --Hyarion 18:13, 13 February 2008 (EST)
Actually, when I read the article after I posted, I noticed "stay tuned for April 17th". How outdated. -- Ederchil 09:19, 14 February 2008 (EST)

Pics on TolkienGateway

Hello Hyarion, we from Ardapedia are wondering what type of license you use for pictures in TolkienGateway, do you ask for permission from each drawer him/herself? Do you use the common GNU-License like in Wikipedia? We would really like to get and add some new pictures on Ardapedia, but we strictly use licenses (like GNU, PD, and in some cases "copyrighted pics with the permission of the author"), thanks for your answer, --Sinthoras 11:05, 13 February 2008 (EST)

Hey there Sinthoras. One thing we definitely need to work on adding is licenses to all the images, as the licenses vary. We try to contact all of the artists for permission before uploading any of their work and so far I think everyone has stated as long as we aren't for-profit, credit them, and link back to their website, etc. then it's fine, we've yet to have someone not allow the images to be displayed. When we don't hear back or are unable to contact/find an artist we upload the images as "Fair use". I would recommend contacting the artists and asking for permission if you can as they tend to want to know who is using their images and I don't know of any that are available under the GNU FDL. --Hyarion 18:21, 13 February 2008 (EST)

Epessi and Epithets

Is there any policy on including these in the article's title? It's obviously the case when dealing with disambigs, like Beren Erchamion, Túrin Turambar or Dior Eluchil. However, it's unclear in the case of the kings of Rohan: compare Brytta Léofa and Fréaláf Hildeson with Théoden (not "Théoden Ednew"), and Éomer (not "Éomer Éadig"). Nor is it the case with Borondir ("Borondir Udalraph"). IMO it would look more "professional" if we would include such epithets and epessi in the title. -- Ederchil 13:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Good question. I don't have a problem with adding them, as obviously we would include redirects from the common name. Up until this point we have tried to just use whatever name was mentioned the most in Tolkien's text as this is what the most people would be familiar with. My only concern would be it would turn a large percentage of links to Théoden, Éomer, etc. into links to redirects, and we probably don't want to bother with typing [[Théoden Ednew|Théoden]]. It also might add, if only minimally, some confusion for those who aren't familiar with "Théoden Ednew" or "Éomer Éadig". However these aren't huge negatives and if everyone else thinks it would be a good idea then I'm all for it. --Hyarion 16:46, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Translations

I was disussing this with someone: there's apparently no good place where the names of all the characters and places are in translations of the book. I only found this on Dutch Wikipedia (presumably, other language wiki's have lists too). We already have such a list at Frodo, should we include such lists at other characters as well?
Also, did you know this? Definately worth some research. -- Ederchil 04:46, 26 February 2008 (EST)

I think it would be worth noting the translations of the character's name in the article, and I definitely think an article which lists all of the translations would be a great idea. What should we call the article, "Translations"? The Harry Potter book is hilarious and I hadn't realized it was a rip off of The Hobbit until now, while probably not worth its own article, we should probably find some place to put that information. --Hyarion 18:16, 28 February 2008 (EST)
What we could also do is make separate pages for all the translations (with a cat:Translations), including information on publishing date, company, translator, and characters. -- Ederchil 10:04, 29 February 2008 (EST)
I guess it just depends on how much of a conflict there is between different translations of the same name by different translators into the same language. My idea would be to have a universal article such as Translations that has a table with them all. One thing we definitely need is, not necessarily an article for every foreign edition, but at least one article for every language for now, so something like Chinese editions of The Lord of the Rings seems logical. --Hyarion 18:42, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Referencing

I would appreciate much if you could turn on the <ref> tag. It would be nice to add where the details were found when writing/rewriting an article. -- nikolet 00:42, 27 February 2008 (EST)

Just me bursting in Hyar's talk: I usually ref with <sup>[[#References|1]]</sup>. It's a lot of typing, but gets more or less the required result. We should really get a standard referencing, btw. I think this (Narfil's, I believe) should be standard. -- Ederchil 04:34, 27 February 2008 (EST)
Well, we may as well discuss the templates for referencing then. I prefer to make citations up to the footnote # or para #, when I edit. How about we have a discussion on the said topic on the irc server, this Saturday? We may as well discuss the finer points of templates such as this and this -- nikolet 20:37, 27 February 2008 (EST)
I can't seem to find where we had the earlier discussion on this but for now we should follow Narfil's lead and just use the reference system as used in Denethor II, but as soon as we upgrade the MediaWiki engine (during my Spring break is the goal) we'll be using the same ref system that Wikipedia uses. --Hyarion 18:46, 3 March 2008 (EST)
I've made an doc of what I think is a good way to reference (which was what I originally meant), which should bring some uniformity in referencing. The current system is vague, and looking at some entries (Constellations, for one) not very well followed. I can mail it to you if you're interested, or post it on my own namespace ( User:Ederchil/Referencing or something). -- Ederchil 05:47, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Polystone statues

Is there really any reason for so many pages to exist solely for the advertisment of statues from the Peter Jackson films? It seems, well...stupid. However, I didn't feel it would be prudent to just delete them without asking. CharlesMartel 21:59, 21 March 2008 (EDT)CharlesMartel

Hey there Charles. There really isn't any site that includes details of the vast number of collectibles relating to J.R.R. Tolkien's works, and we wanted some place where a fan could go to find all the information in one place. The statues category has a long way to go and eventually along with our calendars and books categories we hope to list every collectible that has been produced. We also plan on having an article for all of the games that have been created which relate to Tolkien as well. If in the future the community feels the presence of the collectibles/games/etc hurt the lore articles then it is possible we could separate them more and move the articles to a different namespace or sub-wiki. Right now they are definitely a lower priority but as many fans have shown an interest in collecting we wanted to make sure the information was available. Thanks for your input! --Hyarion 22:08, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Screenplays

I was astounded to see that you have articles for the screenplays of Peter Jackson's LOTR and was wondering how you procured them. Seagrave 07:10, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, me too, and since they're both orphaned AND dead-end, maybe we should link them to the movie articles. -- Ederchil 07:33, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
There's quite a few websites with the screenplays, I can't seem to recall exactly where I found them. I'm not sure if they are 100% accurate but they seem pretty close. As it is fairly common to see the scripts for sale at various places I'm guessing they were officially released at some point. I haven't seen any requests to have them taken down so I believe showcasing them constitutes as fair use. I definitely think it would be better if more people knew about them as a wiki is a fairly good medium for collaborative screenplay editing. --Hyarion 16:01, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

"Sauron or Morgoth?"?

A pity I never got to read that. The title sparked my curiosity, what was it about? -- Ederchil 04:35, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

MediaWiki knew you were going to ask that question :) so what you can do is click on the red link, and click "View or restore 2 deleted edits" and you can view the text. (or click here) --Hyarion 17:19, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
Perhaps you can, as admin ... I just got the edit page. And that link isn't working either! (Gives a "Permission Error".) ~ Earendilyon 17:40, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
Same here. -- Ederchil 17:54, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
D'oh, I forgot about that. I'll see if I can get that changed so anyone can see deleted edits. The article was a paragraph attempting to persuade people into believing Sauron was more powerful than Morgoth. --Hyarion 22:25, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
The Gateway is probably not the place to discuss Tolkien, but it can be argued, that Sauron at some point was indeed more powerful. IIRC, Tolkien stated something along those lines somewhere. ~ Earendilyon 04:19, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

New skin

I like the new skin... a soft, gentle colour blue. I prefer that over the white boxes. I do think the font size, especially in the infobox, could be little bit bigger, though. -- Ederchil 03:35, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

TV

Thanks for deleting "TV". I've come across that page in both my Dead-end and my Uncategorized cleanup without really knowing what to do with it. Similar case for "Reviews - Movies", the (now) oldest page. What do we do with that? Include Rottentomatoes at the corresponding movie articles and dump the rest? -- Ederchil 13:07, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

I still would like to do something related to "Television". Possibly listing the upcoming times at which a Tolkien-related film will be shown and linking to past televised videos, but the article was far below our standards. A specific article for reviews of all films is most likely not necessary as we can link to popular or lengthy fan-made reviews (which RT doesn't link to) on the respected film article. If the list becomes too long we can create a sub-page or an article for reviews of Film X, but a global article isn't going to be very useful and far too lengthy. --Hyarion 13:16, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

Admins on TG

I was checking for admins on this Wiki, and I didn't find any. Certainly a cadre of Admins is necessary for a this Wiki's development. You're doing a bang-up job, but I think you need some high-level support. As a moderate contributor, I think we should encourage people to make this kind of committment and get more deeply involved. --Theoden1 19:06, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

I do think we have a lower-than-most ratio of admins to users, but on wikis admins are more like janitors and there aren't many benefits aside from blocking users or protecting pages, something we do so little here that I don't think I've noticed much need for more janitors. I've also found in various communities the more moderators/admins the more drama there seems to be. That being said, I always have my eyes open and as TG grows we will definitely be adding more admins. --Hyarion 19:20, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

World map

As I could not find either an article or a talk page for the recently added interactive world map, I've decide to flag the gaffes (one major and one minor) that I found on it here.

  • Tolkien never studied at the Exeter College in Exeter, Devon, UK, since it only exists since 1970[1]. To judge from its website, it looks more like a senior highschool than a university college. The Exeter College[2][3] Tolkien studied at is part of Oxford University, and is thus in Oxford, England.
  • The map gives King Edward School[4], Birmingham, UK, in its present location in Kings Heath, but when Tolkien was a pupil there (a century ago now!) it was located right in the city centre, in New Street, in premises that no longer exist[5].

-- Mithrennaith 19:58, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for catching those Mithrennaith! I've fixed the Exeter location and removed the King Edward's School marker for now until I can find an exact latitude/longitude of the old building. --Hyarion 21:46, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

Categorizing people

I could do this via chat, but I'm here and you aren't and I'll probably forget, so...
On some other wikis, I noticed they categorize people by surname. Should we do this too? It's some work to change everything, but not that difficult, apparently it's just [[Category:Artists|Lee, Alan]]. Personally I think it looks more professional that way. -- Ederchil 06:11, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

I'm fine with that, I've been trying to make sure books and such are categorized "Silmarillion, The", etc. Alan Lee categorized in the L's will probably look more professional, the only problem I can see is navigating becomes slightly more confusing as the link still displays "Alan Lee" instead of "Lee, Allen", hopefully this is something we can modify in the near future however. --Hyarion 00:30, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

Template Transfers

I tried to copy over the Underconstruction template for Wiki, but I didn't quite get it right. We do need this template, badly. Would you look it over and get the wrinkles out? --Theoden1 09:00, 17 May 2008 (EDT)



Hello all. This is my first addition to the talk page, so bear with me. Hyarion, on your user page, you said that you handled most of the technical issue, so I would like to ask about one: The Main Page has remained stagnant for some time. The Featured Article, which in my opinion should change daily, has sat on The Children of Hurin for ages. While this is certainly a noteworthy article, we need to cycle through more material. Also, the featued quote has not changed for some time.

Since there is no way to 'edit' the Main Page that I can see, I am wondering if there is a way I could update this main page (or anyone could). I would love to do it--its right up my alley--but I recognize that I am fairly new to the site, so someone more experianced might have to handle it.

Either way, I would love to see the Main Page updated. Thoughts?

Numenorian 21:22, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

Merge

Hey Hyarion, I've set up a vote on the One Wiki to Rule them All for the proposed merge; but first i think users should register their intention to vote. So could you get your contributors to go over there, sign up and register. Thanks!--KingAragorn 07:33, 23 May 2008 (EDT)