Tolkien Gateway

User talk:Morgan/2015–6

(Difference between revisions)
(Tolkien Testament)
(Silmaril and Arkenstone: new question)
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If you have a reference to people arguing that Arkenstone is a Silmaril should not have the argument contrary? In the same link there are both arguments. {{unsigned|Sigurd }}
If you have a reference to people arguing that Arkenstone is a Silmaril should not have the argument contrary? In the same link there are both arguments. {{unsigned|Sigurd }}
== The Hobbit page edit? ==
Why did you undo my edit? [[User:Mclaren01|Mclaren01]] 5:27 AM, 22/01/2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:30, 21 January 2014

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Welcome to Morgan/2015–6's talk page.


Moving articles

Re. "Joseph Wright 19??", just to let you know you should be able to untick the box "Leave a redirect behind" when you move something so there is no redirect left behind for me to delete! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:37, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Good, I'll try think about that in the future (thought it only worked with images)! --Morgan 16:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Sauron code

Here you are: "{{Transcribed|Sauron Tengwar Quenya mode.png|Sauron|Tengwar, Quenya mode}}". -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  00:32, 4 January 2012 (UTC)


I cannot find - but thought we might have - an article that lists translations of The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings etc. Something like this (there's also this website which is useful). Do we have anything like this, and if not, should we have it? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:27, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I've been thinking about that too - it would be good to have. From what I can remember, we only have (in the case of translations of The Hobbit), the list on the main article itself. Is a sub-page a good option in this case, or would a totally separate article be better (like "The Hobbit translations" perhaps "Index:The Hobbit translations")? --Morgan 11:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
I should also say that I think some translations merit their own article, like Hompen.--Morgan 11:06, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't think it should be an index. "Translations of The Hobbit" and "Translations of The Lord of the Rings" etc. should be fine. I agree that some translations should have their own articles where appropriate.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  12:15, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
NOT Index. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 13:17, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Conselho Branco, Sociedade Tolkien

Hi Morgan,
Could you take a look at Conselho Branco, Sociedade Tolkien and provide sources, as according to User:Stbtolkien it includes unreliable and untruthful information. Thank you! --Amroth 16:39, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

It's a very old article, before we started being careful about sources. I had some source back then, but I can't be bothered to find it. Just tag the page with delete if it's questioned.--18:35, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
After looking at the history of the article I see you did add a few sources to the article. Unfortunally it only showed "testa". So I've removed the questioned sentences. --Amroth 19:34, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
While attempting to find a source, I found a Googlecatch entry of the old site by accident:
According to the description the site will be down for an unspecified time. --Amroth 19:53, 16 February 2012 (UTC)


To Morgan- Thank's for informing me Vaire

You're welcome!--Morgan 20:29, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I changed it so it's not saying to think about what happened Vaire 20:31, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

The Tolkien Journal

Is this a new book or a re-release? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:11, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

A new book, is my guess.--Morgan 10:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
It's just all their books are re-releases from the 80s and this one looks old like the others. I can't find any record of it being out before, though (unless it was under a different title). --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Pal. quote reference.

The reference is from page 422 of Unfinished Tales, The Palantiri ch;

Saruman had no doubt from his investigations gained knowledge of the Stones, things that would attract his attention, and had become convinced that the Orthanc-stone was still intact in its tower.

- Mclaren01 8:55, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Maclaren. I've restored your sentence after checking the reference. For future edits, just let me know if you're uncertain about how to add references using the templates and codes -- I would be glad to offer any kind of help.--Morgan 16:12, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
By the way, I didn't add a page number to the reference since the pagination differs between different editions of Unfinished Tales. Our UT template is fairly detailed, however, so it shouldn't be any trouble for people to check a reference just pointing to a section in this book.--Morgan 16:14, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

What are you doing?

What's your rationale behind applying all of these Template:Copyright-unknowns? I put that template on the Parma Eldalamberon covers whilst we wait for permission to use them (I contacted Gilson again today by a different e-mail address). I will get round to going through the WhatLinksHere for Template:Fairuse-cover[former link], so it's not helpful to randomly change the template to Template:Copyright-unknown. Also why did you apply Template:Copyright-unknown for covers with a Fairuse template (+ publisher details) on them? Were they wrong?-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  18:18, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

By the same logic we need to have permission for all covers used on TG. Has anyone contacted HarperCollins etc for permission to use their covers? New Line Cinema? --Morgan 18:22, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
There are numerous channels through which you could have communicated your point; talking is better than vandalising. We don't need permission from every single organisation whose work we use - fairuse is there and we should use it (and not abuse it). My rationale behind contacting the E.L.F. and the Mythopoeic Society (and Mith has sought permission from the Tolkien Society) is simple: they are Tolkien fans like you and I, and they are likely to give us permission. Therefore I'm operating on the principle that if I can contact the copyright holder (in hope of obtaining permission to use their work) then I will. Even if I could contact HarperCollins and New Line Cinema, their lawyers have better things to do than grant (or refuse!) individual requests from organisations like us.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  19:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
No, you should have made it clear about extending this rationale to include covers of publications, in a meeting, for example. Changing the status of cover images to "will be deleted" is very frustrating when you have spent a lot of time compiling/scanning such; every Tolkien-related website or blog (scholarly or non-scholarly) I've come across assumes it's fair use to reproduce covers of publications. --Morgan 19:17, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
I had honestly forgotten that Template:Copyright-unknown included the words "This file will be deleted unless...", and that's why I wish you had told me that this was your grievance in the first place (and let me reiterate that I'm still annoyed that you resorted to vandalism rather than coming to me to discuss it). Let me explain what happened today: I saw that you used Template:Fairuse-cover[former link] on File:Parma Eldalamberon 12.jpg and, because Template:Fairuse-cover should not be used on new images, I replaced it Template:Copyright-unknown. I then decided to tidy up the other Parma Eldalamberon covers (including giving them their own category) and in the process I added Template:Copyright-unknown to all of them as we will probably get permission soon.
There has been no change in policy; we've used the new system for covers of publications since the new system was first established. I'm perfectly happy to discuss how we handle copyright for publication covers, if that's what you want (although, if this is the case, I wish that we had held it sooner). I'm sorry if my actions have upset or frustrated you, but I suspect that you wouldn't have been so annoyed if you had simply contacted me about it.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  19:45, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
I've emailed you.--Morgan 20:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Noncanon template

Would you like me to use my bot to remove all usages of Template:Noncanon?-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  13:40, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Hm, I'm not sure. I'm just thinking that there might be articles without references or which don't explain the canonical status.--Morgan 13:43, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  13:46, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Bombadil sentence

And why did you remove the sentence I added? -- User:Mclaren01 4:56 PM, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi Mclaren01, you made a great point; but I think we need to include a reference to back up your statement. That way the reader knows where that idea comes from. --Hyarion 07:15, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Furthermore it was an incomplete sentence.--Morgan 22:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
"He might do so, if all the free folk of the world begged him, but he would not understand the need" Gandalf, the Council of Elrond, pg 259 I Wrote the sentence as a summary of this statement by Gandalf about Bombadilo's mentality. If you have a clearer, etc, sentence in mind you can consider that instead. -- User:Mclaren01 11:03 AM, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification, Mclaren. I will take a look at the issue tomorrow.--Morgan 00:23, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Mclaren, this is my conclusion: right now the first part of your addition would already be included in the preceding sentence (that is, Tom not being "fully aware of the struggle of Light and Darkness", equivalent to your "A mindset clear of conceptions of 'Good' and 'Evil'"). The One Ring hasn't been mentioned before in the article, and it would therefore take a major rewrite to include your last part (" he would not understand overtures to keep and conceal the One Ring himself if all the peoples of Middle-earth begged him to") at this point, since the section "War of the Ring" follows.--Morgan 23:57, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Hobbit in French

Hello Morgan. I just see your message on my discussion page. It's a new translation, made by Daniel Lauzon (also translator of the HoMe 3 at 5). I've change the url you've added for another where Daniel Lauzon have answering some questions and enlighted some of his choices. Druss 13:01, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Black Speech

Hello there Morgan I was thinkong of bringong more details to the Black speech page but maybe it shouldn't be there where I put it so we must make a new Headline. However it would be nice if we could have a little bit more information about this language however rude he looked like.

Yours fathiful

--Glaurung the Golden 13:58, 11 January 2013 (UTC)Glaurung the Golden

Hi there. I tweaked your contribution and added it to the article.--Morgan 23:14, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes thanks mate, i was just thinking to mention the use of ergative in it

--Glaurung the Golden 17:03, 13 January 2013 (UTC)Glaurung the Golden

Well, to me "ergative" is specialized linguistic terminology -- I'm not sure we need to include this on Tolkien Gateway and at the very least not just a quick mention. Fauskanger devotes a whole section of his article to the ergative case in relation to the Black Speech and Hurrian. If you find a good way to explain this in a simple way, it could possibly be included. I don't want to be the sole judge here! :) But IMHO think it suffices with a link to Fauskanger's article, for those wanting more detailed information.--Morgan 17:11, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
Ergative is a grammatical case that is used to explain the subject of transitive verb mostly in ergative-absolutive languages. But, alright if it's too complicated for TG then i will try to make more simple. However Tolkien himself was a philologist :)

We will end this conversation now, don't want to waste your time anymore.

Your's faithiful


New users

You don't need to add {{user}} to the user page of every new editor. It's only for those who write on talk pages and, therefore, leave a redlink lying around. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:12, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for letting me know. I thought the red-linked user name appearing in recent changes also turned up in wanted pages.--Morgan 23:33, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Total Edits

Hi Morgan, I apologize but I'm afraid we're going to have to block your account from future editing. I'm sure you're just getting too close to my edit total. :) (I will admit, you passed me long ago if we're counting quality contributions) Keep up the great work! --Hyarion 03:55, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

+1.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  09:46, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Hehe, but I actually fear that quantity rather than quality has been my main contribution to TG! :) --Morgan 16:59, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


Hi Morgan. I understand that you own several old and recent editions of LotR. Could you please check out this matter and have a look in Appendix C of your books? I own only one version (pre-50th Anniversary), which is not available to me ATM so I can't cross-check. Sage 14:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello Sage! Certainly, I will check when I come back home later today.--Morgan 14:58, 1 May 2013 (UTC)


Hi Morgan!

I'm trying to understand how to include a reference in the article that links back to a source that has already been given. I know I'm supposed to use < ref name=One>And this is source number one</ref> and such, but does this also work with shortcuts such as {S|1}}? If so, how? --Shadrak 16:56, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi Shadrak!
<ref name=S1>{{S|1}}</ref>
<ref name=S1/>
The first code line above creates an original reference to The Silmarillion, Chapter 1. The second code line "links back" to the same reference. You can use any name as the reference name, but the name needs to be the same when you link to it.
Does it make sense? You can see an example here.--Morgan 18:01, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks!--Shadrak 20:17, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Undone edits

Hi Morgan! Quick question: I noticed you reverted the edits done to the "Ents" page by user Just to clarify, was that due to the fact that there were no references, or was there something else that was questionable about the edits? I just ask because user happens to be me before I created an account. :O) Unsigned comment by Shadrak (talk • contribs).

Hello Shadrak! I'll be blunt, and hope you'll see my opinion as constructive criticism. The reason for undoing the edits was a combination of many things: the lack of references was the most important (for example, a statement needing a source is "...created at the request of the Vala Yavanna to protect the trees from other creatures, particularly Dwarves..."). In addition, the edits I reverted carried a speculative, non-encyclopedic tone: for example, "...they are undoubtedly counted among...". Finally, there were a couple of spelling errors ("phisiology" and "Middle-Earth"). As administrators, we tend to be less forgiving when it comes to anonymous edits (for psychological reasons, I guess).--Morgan 15:34, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Cool. I didn't take it personally. ;) I just wanna learn to contribute in the most thorough and objective way. Is it ok if I re-post the edits addressing these issues?--Shadrak 19:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Naturally! I should also like to point out that I think admins and fellow editors are more willing to "correct" or improve edits when these are done by registered editors -- it's an indication that the editor is serious and willing to participate in discussions.--Morgan 19:32, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Excellent. Please check the Ents page later today and let me know if you notice anything else I can improve.--Shadrak 19:42, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
IMHO, the edit you now did works better as an introduction (that is, an introduction shouldn't be too wordy).--Morgan 09:50, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Own story

Excuse me, do you know if there is a website where a person may create their own stories of Middle-earth, thanks.-- 22:53, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I'd recommend the Cottage of Lost Play at the LotR Fanatics Plaza. If you search on Google, there appears to be many fan fiction websites (like this one), but I couldn't say if any of them are better or worse.--Morgan 09:31, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Idril page

Dear Morgan,

I was reviewing the page on idril and could not find any information to back up the following claim- "and in the Helcaraxë almost lost her life falling through the ice with several others, but Turgon saved her, though he lost his wife Elenwë." In the Silmarillion it is said that Elenwe lost her life but I find no mention of Idril.

Hope you can help,

Watcher at the Silver Gate

Thanks for noting this. I've placed a {{fact}} at the statement, to see if someone knows a reference (it might be from the History of Middle-earth).--Morgan 22:29, 20 November 2013 (UTC)


Pardon me, I used a copy-and-paste then. --Mclaren01 11:29 PM, 29/12/2013 (UTC).

No problem. :-) --Morgan 14:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Tolkien Testament

Why Tolkien testament is not included on dates and the administrator of this website deleted all references about that? Unsigned comment by Sigurd (talk • contribs).

Because the article was so below any imaginable standard that cleaning it up (which I tried) left only one very short sentence. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:43, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

No. I created one exclusive page about this testament and put references about this document. Is so easy to find in Joseph Ratellif blog, in Tolkien's Legendarium book and others. I think that FACT cannot be excluded from a serious encyclopedia. User:Sigurd/sig

  1. Sign your posts.
  2. The factuality was not in dispute. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:31, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

No thanks. So Why do not put that information?

Silmaril and Arkenstone

If you have a reference to people arguing that Arkenstone is a Silmaril should not have the argument contrary? In the same link there are both arguments. Unsigned comment by Sigurd (talk • contribs).

The Hobbit page edit?

Why did you undo my edit? Mclaren01 5:27 AM, 22/01/2014 (UTC)