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User talk:Morgan/2015–6

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<center>'''Archives'''</center>
 
<center>'''Archives'''</center>
*[[User_talk:Morgan/2011|2011]]
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*[[User_talk:Morgan/2009–11|2009–11]]
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*[[User_talk:Morgan/2012–4|2012–4]]
 
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{{usertalk}}
 
{{usertalk}}
  
== Moving articles ==
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== why did you delete my post about translating? ==
  
Re. "Joseph Wright 19??", just to let you know you should be able to untick the box "Leave a redirect behind" when you move something so there is no redirect left behind for me to delete! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:37, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
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recently i posted about some translating english to elvish, and you deleted that post. so rude {{unsigned|MrSkinny21}}
  
:Good, I'll try think about that in the future (thought it only worked with images)! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
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:Until Morgan answers, I'd like to inform you that your question was out of topic. The TG forum questions should be about the maintainance and improvement of TG, its policies and its articles, not random discussions about Tolkien. You should try with [[Elfling]] or other Tolkien forums. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 18:30, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
  
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::Ditto!--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:53, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
  
== [[Sauron]] code ==
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:::And as someone who has, in the past, attempted to master some of the Elven tongues, let me just say: it's a fool's errand to translate things. You can exercise, and it's nice ''couleur locale'' for a fanfic, but there are too many problems. Tolkien changed his mind, and we simply don't know enough words to do it, and Tolkien changed his mind, or they're really reconstructions that don't account for irregularities, and did I mention Tolkien changed his mind? He did that a lot. Every Elvish translation site you see online uses a fanon reconstruction, and there are different versions at that (because have I mentioned Tolkien changed his mind?), especially concerning past tense and personal pronouns. Some are better than [[Grelvish|others]], but none of them are perfection, because perfect Elvish didn't even exist in Tolkien's mind. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:32, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
  
Here you are: "<nowiki>{{Transcribed|Sauron Tengwar Quenya mode.png|Sauron|Tengwar, Quenya mode}}</nowiki>". --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 00:32, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
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::::Also, I just want to point out that when creating Quenya, Sindarin, Khuzdul, etc. Tolkien tended to change his mind, a lot. :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 03:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
  
== Translations ==
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== World War I ==
  
I cannot find - but thought we might have - an article that lists translations of ''[[The Hobbit]]'', ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' etc. Something like [[wikipedia:Translations of The Lord of the Rings|this]] (there's also [http://www.elrondslibrary.fr/index.html this website] which is useful). Do we have ''anything'' like this, and if not, should we have it? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:27, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
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Hello. You've deleted my emendation on the numbers of British casualties along with Rob Gilson, in the first day of the Somme battle. But if you look at the page 158 of Tolkien and the Great War, you'll see that the number of 360,000 casualties is impossible and it's more probably 36,000.
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{{quote|Rob Gilson's division had lost most heavily of all on the first day of the Battle of the Somme, but along with the British front there had been 57,000 casualties: out of the 100,000 who entered No Man's Land, 20,000 had been killed and '''twice as many wounded'''.}}
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So, nearly 40,000. This number is the same given in the table of the lost and wounded British on the [https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_de_la_Somme#L.27.C3.A9chec_britannique_du_1er_juillet_1916|french Wikipedia] (sorry, I can't find an equivalent english table), with 35,493 casualties. The number of 360,000 is the number of total casualties for the whole Battle of the Somme. Maybe, a reformulation of the sentence can be useful, because it's a little vague. I'm not a English native speaker, and I understand this sentence like if the 360,000 casualties felt on this same day with Rob Gilson, but it's not the case. Thank you for your time. [[Special:Contributions/82.244.254.212|82.244.254.212]] 09:47, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
  
:I've been thinking about that too - it would be good to have. From what I can remember, we only have (in the case of translations of The Hobbit), the list on the main article itself. Is a sub-page a good option in this case, or would a totally separate article be better (like "The Hobbit translations" perhaps "Index:The Hobbit translations")? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
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:Hi. As you say, the sentence right now is a bit ambiguous; I read it as referring to the whole Battle of the Somme, but if it's read as referring to only the first day, the number you suggest seems to be the correct one. I agree that a reformulation of the sentence would be useful. Thanks for taking time to explain the issue! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 00:40, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
  
::I should also say that I think some translations merit their own article, like  ''[[Hompen]]''.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:06, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
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== [[Talk:The Hobbit (film series)]]/Mistakes ==
  
:::I don't think it should be an index. "Translations of ''The Hobbit''" and "Translations of ''The Lord of the Rings''" etc. should be fine. I agree that some translations should have their own articles where appropriate.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 12:15, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
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look what I have written in [[Talk:The Hobbit (film series)]] about some mistakes.
  
::''NOT'' Index. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:17, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
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== Can you check something in the Reader's Companion book? ==
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I'm trying to get a source verified for the [[Utumno]] etymology.  I found a reference to the meaning of the place name online, but I do not own the book. From the talk page: the translation as 'Dark Pit' or 'Hell' comes from The Lord of the Rings: a Reader's Companion p. 297.  When you have a chance, can you verify if that is legit and source the reference?  You seem to have a few editions of this book in your collection, but I am not sure if the page number will match. --[[User:Elf-esteem|Elf-esteem]] 17:42, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
  
==[[Conselho Branco, Sociedade Tolkien]]==
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: Page 297 is the correct reference. Here is a transcript of the entry in the ''Reader's Companion'':
Hi Morgan,<br>
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Could you take a look at [[Conselho Branco, Sociedade Tolkien]] and provide sources, as according to [[User:Stbtolkien]] it includes unreliable and untruthful information. Thank you! --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 16:39, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
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:It's a very old article, before we started being careful about sources. I had some source back then, but I can't be bothered to find it. Just tag the page with delete if it's questioned.--18:35, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
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::'''Udûn''' — In his unfinished index Tolkien defines ''Udûn'' as '"dark pit", the dwelling of Morgoth beneath Thangorodrim ... called the ''Underworld of old''<nowiki>'</nowiki> (distinct from ''Udûn'' a place in Mordor; see note for p. 928). The ''1966 Index'' adds 'Udûn ''hell''<nowiki>'</nowiki>.
  
::After looking at the [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Conselho_Branco,_Sociedade_Tolkien&oldid=116155 history of the article] I see you did add a few sources to the article. Unfortunally it only showed "testa". So I've removed the questioned sentences. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 19:34, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
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:--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 15:23, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
  
:::While attempting to find a source, I found a Googlecatch entry of the old site by accident:
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::Woot! That's it! Thank you so much Morgan. You are made of win. ^_^  --[[User:Elf-esteem|Elf-esteem]] 17:58, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
:::*[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rP9Bv75cihUJ:www.conselhobranco.com.br/+Conselho+Branco,+Sociedade+Tolkien&cd=1&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl Site]
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:::According to the description the site will be down for an unspecified time. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 19:53, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
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==Vaire==
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== Bree-folk ==
  
To Morgan- Thank's for informing me [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]
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I see you had tagged for cleanup some abiguous articles about the Bree-landers, Bree-folk, Bree-men, Big and Little Folk and so on. I have made several improvements since then, but I didn't touch your tag. I hope they are up to the standards now; you can check again and remove the tags if you wish. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:26, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
  
:You're welcome!--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:29, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
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:Thanks for letting me know (and for your work)! I only changed the tag, though, since some sections are still almost direct quotes from EoA (see [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/b/breelanders.html this]).--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:45, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
  
I changed it so it's not saying to think about what happened [[User:Vaire|Vaire]] 20:31, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
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== The Oxford Comma ==
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Generally, I'm a fan of the Oxford comma (or serial comma) because it neatly ties off lists and keeps the sentence clear. Though I understand it is not always necessary for clarity, what is the TG style recommendation for it? Use it only for clarity or do not use it at all? I have noticed several micro-edits going through that are doing nothing but removing Oxford commas or just moving commas around, seemingly incorrectly, based on that editor's preference, and I was not sure how to proceed. Since I do not want to appear to be edit warring, I wanted to ask an admin first. --[[User:Elf-esteem|Elf-esteem]] 01:27, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
  
== The Tolkien Journal ==
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:I don't think we've ever discussed the issue. What you could do is to bring it up for discussion at the [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Manual of Style]]. As a non-native English speaker it's hard for me to provide a suggestion in this case (although I personally favour the Oxford comma in English).--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 08:19, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
  
Is [http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Tolkien-Journal-Running-Press/dp/076244746X/ref=sr_1_56?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1340963899&sr=1-56 this] a new book or a re-release? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:11, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
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== "Intimidating/abusive behavior"? ==
  
::A new book, is my guess.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 10:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
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Since when was politely requesting another user to correct their own spelling mistakes--on a side-note, no less--considered intimidating or abusive? And then immediately blocking me without any sort of forewarning? Just how is that fair?[[Special:Contributions/70.92.179.85|70.92.179.85]] 23:51, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
  
:::It's just all their books are re-releases from the 80s and this one looks old like the others. I can't find any record of it being out before, though (unless it was under a different title). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
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:Why would it be relevant to ask someone to correct a spelling mistake when arguing on a talk page? I found your strategy to be a clear example of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_suppression_techniques#Ridicule ridiculing another's argument]. If you had been registered as a user you would just have gotten a warning on your talk page, rather than a 3 days ban.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 10:07, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
  
== Pal. quote reference. ==
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::"Ridiculing another's argument"? That had nothing to do with the argument. The spelling was a different thing, entirely. And I still haven't gotten an explanation for why "Scourge of the Dragons" is any more "derivative" than "War of the Dwarves and Dragons". [[Special:Contributions/70.92.179.85|70.92.179.85]] 12:23, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
  
The reference is from page 422 of Unfinished Tales, The Palantiri ch;
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== Battle of Fornost and The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey ==
  
''Saruman had no doubt from his investigations gained knowledge of the Stones, things that would attract his attention, and had become convinced that the Orthanc-stone was still intact in its tower.''
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Hello.I would like to ask you something.Could the words of Galadriel in the White Council scene in the [[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey|First Hobbit film]]<<when Angmar fell>> be considered as an indirect mention to the Battle of Fornost and its aftermath? Do you think the edits that I did on that page ([[Battle of Fornost]])are correct or not?{{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}
 
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- [[User:Mclaren01|Mclaren01]] 8:55, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
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:Thanks, Maclaren. I've restored your sentence after checking the reference. For future edits, just let me know if you're uncertain about how to add references using the templates and codes -- I would be glad to offer any kind of help.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:12, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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:By the way, I didn't add a page number to the reference since the pagination differs between different editions of ''Unfinished Tales''. Our [[Template:UT|UT template]] is fairly detailed, however, so it shouldn't be any trouble for people to check a reference just pointing to a section in this book.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:14, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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== What are you doing? ==
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What's your rationale behind applying all of these [[Template:Copyright-unknown]]s? I put that template on the Parma Eldalamberon covers whilst we wait for permission to use them (I contacted Gilson again today by a different e-mail address). I will get round to going through the WhatLinksHere for {{Redlink|[[Template:Fairuse-cover]]}}, so it's not helpful to randomly change the template to [[Template:Copyright-unknown]]. Also why did you apply [[Template:Copyright-unknown]] for covers with a Fairuse template (+ publisher details) on them? Were they wrong?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:18, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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::By the same logic we need to have permission for all covers used on TG. Has anyone contacted HarperCollins etc for permission to use their covers? New Line Cinema? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:22, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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:::There are numerous channels through which you could have communicated your point; talking is better than vandalising. We don't ''need'' permission from every single organisation whose work we use - fairuse is there and we should use it (and not abuse it). My rationale behind contacting the E.L.F. and the Mythopoeic Society (and Mith has sought permission from the Tolkien Society) is simple: they are Tolkien fans like you and I, and they are likely to give us permission. Therefore I'm operating on the principle that if I can contact the copyright holder (in hope of obtaining permission to use their work) then I will. Even if I could contact HarperCollins and New Line Cinema, their lawyers have better things to do than grant (or refuse!) individual requests from organisations like us.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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::::No, ''you'' should have made it clear about extending this rationale to include covers of publications, in a meeting, for example. Changing the status of cover images to "will be deleted" is very frustrating when you have spent a lot of time compiling/scanning such; every Tolkien-related website or blog (scholarly or non-scholarly) I've come across assumes it's fair use to reproduce covers of publications. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:17, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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:::::I had honestly forgotten that [[Template:Copyright-unknown]] included the words "This file will be deleted unless...", and that's why I wish you had told me that this was your grievance in the first place (and let me reiterate that I'm still annoyed that you resorted to vandalism rather than coming to me to discuss it). Let me explain what happened today: I saw that you used {{Redlink|[[Template:Fairuse-cover]]}} on [[:File:Parma Eldalamberon 12.jpg]] and, because Template:Fairuse-cover should not be used on new images, I replaced it [[Template:Copyright-unknown]]. I then decided to tidy up the other ''Parma Eldalamberon'' covers (including giving them their own category) and in the process I added Template:Copyright-unknown to all of them as we will probably get permission soon.
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:::::There has been no change in policy; we've used the new system for covers of publications since the new system was first established. I'm perfectly happy to discuss how we handle copyright for publication covers, if that's what you want (although, if this is the case, I wish that we had held it sooner). I'm sorry if my actions have upset or frustrated you, but I suspect that you wouldn't have been so annoyed if you had simply contacted me about it.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:45, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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::::::I've emailed you.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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== Noncanon template ==
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Would you like me to use my bot to remove all usages of Template:Noncanon?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:40, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
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:Hm, I'm not sure. I'm just thinking that there might be articles without references or which don't explain the canonical status.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 13:43, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
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::Fair enough.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:46, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
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== Bombadil sentence ==
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And why did you remove the sentence I added? -- [[User:Mclaren01]] 4:56 PM, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
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:Hi Mclaren01, you made a great point; but I think we need to include a reference to back up your statement. That way the reader knows where that idea comes from. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 07:15, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
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::Furthermore it was an [[Wiktionary:incomplete sentence|incomplete sentence]].--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
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:::"He might do so, if all the free folk of the world begged him, but he would not understand the need" Gandalf, the Council of Elrond, pg 259 I Wrote the sentence as a summary of this statement by Gandalf about Bombadilo's mentality. If you have a clearer, etc, sentence in mind you can consider that instead. -- [[User:Mclaren01]] 11:03 AM, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
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::::Thanks for the clarification, Mclaren. I will take a look at the issue tomorrow.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 00:23, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
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:::::Mclaren, this is my conclusion: right now the first part of your addition would already be included in the preceding sentence (that is, Tom not being "fully aware of the struggle of Light and Darkness", equivalent to your "A mindset clear of conceptions of 'Good' and 'Evil'"). The One Ring hasn't been mentioned before in the article, and it would therefore take a major rewrite to include your last part (" he would not understand overtures to keep and conceal the One Ring himself if all the peoples of Middle-earth begged him to") at this point, since the section "War of the Ring" follows.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:57, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
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== Hobbit in French ==
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Hello Morgan. I just see your message on my discussion page. It's a new translation, made by Daniel Lauzon (also translator of the HoMe 3 at 5). I've change the url you've added for another where Daniel Lauzon have answering some questions and enlighted some of his choices. [[User:Druss|Druss]] 13:01, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
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== Black Speech ==
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Hello there Morgan I was thinkong of bringong more details to the [[Black speech]] page but maybe it shouldn't be there where I put it so we must make a new Headline. However it would be nice if we could have a little bit more information about this language however rude he looked like.
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Yours fathiful
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--[[User:Glaurung the Golden|Glaurung the Golden]] 13:58, 11 January 2013 (UTC)Glaurung the Golden
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:Hi there. I [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Black_Speech&action=historysubmit&diff=225496&oldid=225442 tweaked] your contribution and added it to the article.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:14, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
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Yes thanks mate, i was just thinking to mention the use of ergative in it
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--[[User:Glaurung the Golden|Glaurung the Golden]] 17:03, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[[Glaurung the Golden]]
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:Well, to me "ergative" is specialized linguistic terminology -- I'm not sure we need to include this on Tolkien Gateway and at the very least not just a quick mention. Fauskanger devotes a whole section of his article to the ergative case in relation to the Black Speech and Hurrian. If you find a good way to explain this in a simple way, it could possibly be included. I don't want to be the sole judge here! :) But IMHO think it suffices with a link to Fauskanger's article, for those wanting more detailed information.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:11, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
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:Ergative is a grammatical case that is used to explain the subject of transitive verb mostly in ergative-absolutive languages. But, alright if it's too complicated for TG then i will try to make more simple. However Tolkien himself was a philologist :)
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We will end this conversation now, don't want to waste your time anymore.
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Your's faithiful
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--~~[[User:Glaurung the Golden|Glaurung]]
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== New users ==
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You don't need to add <nowiki>{{user}}</nowiki> to the user page of every new editor. It's only for those who write on talk pages and, therefore, leave a redlink lying around. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:12, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
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:Ah, thanks for letting me know. I thought the red-linked user name appearing in recent changes also turned up in wanted pages.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:33, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
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== Total Edits ==
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Hi Morgan, I apologize but I'm afraid we're going to have to block your account from future editing. I'm sure you understand....you're just getting too close to my edit total. :) (I will admit, you passed me long ago if we're counting quality contributions) Keep up the great work! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 03:55, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
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:+1.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 09:46, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
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::Hehe, but I actually fear that quantity rather than quality has been my main contribution to TG! :) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:59, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
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==Check==
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Hi Morgan. I understand that you own several old and recent editions of LotR. Could you please check out [[Talk:Prisca_Baggins|this matter]] and have a look in Appendix C of your books? I own only one version (pre-50th Anniversary), which is not available to me ATM so I can't cross-check. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
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:Hello Sage! Certainly, I will check when I come back home later today.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:58, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
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== Referencing ==
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Hi Morgan!
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I'm trying to understand how to include a reference in the article that links back to a source that has already been given. I know I'm supposed to use < ref name=One>And this is source number one</ref> and such, but does this also work with shortcuts such as {S|1}}? If so, how?
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--[[User:Shadrak|Shadrak]] 16:56, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
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::Hi Shadrak!
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::<nowiki><ref name=S1>{{S|1}}</ref></nowiki><br>
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::<nowiki><ref name=S1/></nowiki>
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::The first code line above creates an original reference to ''The Silmarillion'', Chapter 1. The second code line "links back" to the same reference. You can use any name as the reference name, but the name needs to be the same when you link to it.
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::Does it make sense? '''You can see an example [[User:Morgan/Sandbox9|here]]'''.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:01, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
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:::Perfect, thanks!--[[User:Shadrak|Shadrak]] 20:17, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
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== Undone edits ==
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Hi Morgan! Quick question: I noticed you reverted the edits done to the "Ents" page by user 204.108.96.90. Just to clarify, was that due to the fact that there were no references, or was there something else that was questionable about the edits? I just ask because user 204.108.96.90 happens to be me before I created an account. :O) {{Unsigned|Shadrak}}
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:Hello Shadrak! I'll be blunt, and hope you'll see my opinion as constructive criticism. The reason for undoing the edits was a combination of many things: the lack of references was the most important (for example, a statement needing a source is "...created at the request of the Vala Yavanna to protect the trees from other creatures, particularly Dwarves..."). In addition, the edits I reverted carried a speculative, non-encyclopedic tone: for example, "...they are undoubtedly counted among...". Finally, there were a couple of spelling errors ("phisiology" and "Middle-Earth"). As administrators, we tend to be less forgiving when it comes to anonymous edits (for psychological reasons, I guess).--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 15:34, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
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::Cool. I didn't take it personally. ;) I just wanna learn to contribute in the most thorough and objective way. Is it ok if I re-post the edits addressing these issues?--[[User:Shadrak|Shadrak]] 19:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
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:::Naturally! I should also like to point out that I think admins and fellow editors are more willing to "correct" or improve edits when these are done by registered editors -- it's an indication that the editor is serious and willing to participate in discussions.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:32, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
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::::Excellent. Please check the Ents page later today and let me know if you notice anything else I can improve.--[[User:Shadrak|Shadrak]] 19:42, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
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:::::IMHO, the edit you now did works better as an introduction (that is, an introduction shouldn't be too wordy).--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:50, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
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==Own story==
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Excuse me, do you know if there is a website where a person may create their own stories of Middle-earth, thanks.--[[Special:Contributions/50.122.9.252|50.122.9.252]] 22:53, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
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:I'd recommend the [http://www.lotrplaza.com/forumdisplay.php?16-Cottage-of-Lost-Play Cottage of Lost Play] at the LotR Fanatics Plaza. If you search on Google, there appears to be many fan fiction websites (like [http://www.tolkienfanfiction.com/ this one]), but I couldn't say if any of them are better or worse.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:31, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
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== Idril page ==
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Dear Morgan,
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I was reviewing the page on idril and could not find any information to back up the following claim- "and in the Helcaraxë almost lost her life falling through the ice with several others, but Turgon saved her, though he lost his wife Elenwë." In the Silmarillion it is said that Elenwe lost her life but I find no mention of Idril.
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Hope you can help,
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Watcher at the Silver Gate
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:Thanks for noting this. I've placed a <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> at the statement, to see if someone knows a reference (it might be from the ''History of Middle-earth'').--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:29, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
+
 
+
== Signature ==
+
 
+
Pardon me, I used a copy-and-paste then. --[[User:Mclaren01|Mclaren01]] 11:29 PM, 29/12/2013 (UTC).
+
 
+
:No problem. :-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
+
 
+
 
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== Tolkien Testament ==
+
 
+
Why Tolkien testament is not included on dates and the administrator of this website deleted all references about that? {{unsigned|Sigurd }}
+
 
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:Because the article was so below any imaginable standard that cleaning it up (which I tried) left only one very short sentence. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:43, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
+
 
+
No. I created one exclusive page about this testament and put references about this document. Is so easy to find in Joseph Ratellif blog, in Tolkien's Legendarium book and others. I think that FACT cannot be excluded from a serious encyclopedia. {{User:Sigurd/sig}}
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:# Sign your posts.
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:# The factuality was not in dispute. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:31, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
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+
No thanks.
+
So Why do not put that information?
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== Silmaril and Arkenstone ==
+
 
+
If you have a reference to people arguing that Arkenstone is a Silmaril should not have the argument contrary? In the same link there are both arguments. {{unsigned|Sigurd }}
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+
== The Hobbit page edit? ==
+
 
+
Why did you undo my edit? [[User:Mclaren01|Mclaren01]] 5:27 AM, 22/01/2014 (UTC)
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:Grammar and style were not up to standard.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:49, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
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+
== The Children of Húrin editions ==
+
 
+
This is a NEW BOOK. ISBN is different. Why did you deleted from the list os editions of the children of húrin?
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* [[HarperCollins]], Complete & Unabridged [[2007]]([[10 December]]), ISBN:9780007275397  {{unsigned|Sigurd}}
+
 
+
:Hello Sigurd. There is a [http://www.tolkienguide.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2032&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=15 discussion] about this ISBN over at The Tolkien Collector's Guide: it seems like it's a database glitch, not referring to an actual edition of ''The Children of Húrin''. (Please remember to sign your posts, using the code <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>.)--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:55, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
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+
There is no discussion there like that. Just me that notice Deagol that in his website this book was not listed. And other person comment as well. A new ISBN form a new book that is the rule of ISBN itself. --[[User:Sigurd|Sigurd]] 00:44, 26 January 2014 (UTC).)--
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:Your interpretation of the discussion is wrong. You suggest that Deagol should include the edition "The Children of Húrin. HarperCollins, Complete & Unabridged 2007(10 December), ISBN:9780007275397". Deagol answers: "Does anybody have a copy of this? What is it?" and "Just a database glitch maybe?". Khamûl replies "I guess (& have guessed) it's a glitch", and then Stu also suggests that the edition is an error. In any case, let's be patient and wait to see what Deagol adds to TolkienBooks.net.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 10:45, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
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Now I understand what you said about that discussion. But,Tolkiengateway is part of Tolkienbookt website? So we have to whait indeed. --[[User:Sigurd|Sigurd]] 15:50, 26 January 2014 (UTC).)--
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== Image - collage of maps ==
+
 
+
Greetings Morgan,
+
I just uploaded an image (File:Collage-detail-dolmed-ereb.png) and was fixing the description and licensing when you also edited simultaneously the latter. Ended up with two licensing boxes, let me know what is best preferable for TG. [[User:Drakon|Drakon]] 00:58, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
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:Double post again! :-) I posted a note at your talk page, please have a look.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 00:59, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
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::Thanks! I looked at your example and switched to GFDL(-self), which is ok for me, so that others may use it and possibly make a better one (and also kept the "fair use" box, respectively to JRRT/CJRT own's maps used as basis for this "collage") -- [[User:Drakon|Drakon]] 01:10, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
+
 
+
==Featured Article==
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Hey Morgan I was just wondering when we could get a vote for featured article maybe make it where we change it quarterly its been smaug since before I even joined [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 03:51, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
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:Thanks for your message. I've just been discussing this point with some other editors, and there are some disagreement on whether we have any other article which would qualify as a featured article.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:51, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
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+
Maybe you and I can pick an article or two that we both like and work on cleaning it up to a point that it can be featured as an article I just think at this point any article would be a better than keeping the same one up any longer if we do choose to team up on an article I think it should have something to do with the battle of five armies let me know
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[[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 10:45, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
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== Letters ==
+
 
+
I know this would be a faff, but the title of letters has always bothered me because the name of the article doesn't actually say what it is. Furthermore, we have the issue that some articles have "??" in the title. I would like to suggest:
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* Letters be renamed to "Letter to name".
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* Where there are multiple letters, the title should be suffixed with a bracketed date. E.g. Instead of "Mary Fairburn 4 November 1968" it would be "Letter to Mary Fairburn (4 November 1968)".
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I think this would make the letters much easier to link to and for the public to find with a much more intuitive name. It would also conform to the style we have for article title. I am happy to do the work to make this happen. What do you think? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 23:16, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
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:Good suggestions! It has bothered me that we might need to create articles about events, which would also have a date in their titles (e.g., Rotterdam 1958). These latter would be difficult to distinguish from letters. So -- yes, I agree about the changes you suggest.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:24, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
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:I think with events and things you could have a similar format, e.g. "Speech in Rotterdam".
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:I've started moving some of the letters (I'll let my bot sort out all the links), but do you think it would be better if they were sorted by surname instead of firstname? We do this elsewhere and, of course, we don't know the firstnames of a lot of the letter receivers.
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:Also, how do you think we should amend the opening sentence on each letter? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:29, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
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::Yes, it would be better to sort by surname (where applicable -- some are letters to magazines and institutions).
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::Concerning the opening sentence ...hmm... what I think is ''important'' is to include: link to our list of letters, links to the dates of the letter, and links to the sender and receiver (when such have an article of their own). The question now is: with the suggested change of title, can we escape an unnecessary repetition of words in the opening sentence? For the article '''Letter to Mr. Miggins (30 February 1974)''', we could perhaps have: "<nowiki>On '''[[30 February]] [[1974]], [[J.R.R. Tolkein]] '''[[Letters not published in "The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien"|wrote a letter]] to [[Mr. Miggins]]'''.</nowiki>"--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:12, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
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:::That sounds good to me. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:23, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
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::::I've moved all the articles, sorted them, added <nowiki>{{nowiki}}</nowiki>, and re-linked them; all that's left for me to do is to rework the opening sentences of them all. But, some articles I didn't know what to do with, I wonder if you could help? These are:
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::::*[[Letter 339|Beautiful Place because Trees are Loved]]
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::::*[[Letter to the editor of Triode|Editor of Triode ?April 1960]] (this is easiest resolved of them all by being moved to "Letter to the editor of Triode")
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::::*[[The Name Coventry]]
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::::*[[A Philologist on Esperanto]]
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::::*{{redlink|[[The Letters to J.R.R. Tolkien]]}} (the most troublesome - see its talk page)
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::::What do you think? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:26, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
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:::::#Merge with its counterpart in ''The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien''?
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:::::#Sounds good.
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:::::#Thinking about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_titles#Use_commonly_recognizable_names WP's principle of commonly recongizable names], I'd actually suggest using the published "title" of the letter (i.e., as we do now).
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:::::#See above.
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:::::#I'd argue that the only interesting letters ''to'' Tolkien (in the context of TG) are such to which Tolkien replied (or otherwise reacted to). When I have noted letters to Tolkien, I have therefore mentioned these within articles about letters by Tolkien (and then created separate entries in the dates articles). Hence, I think that we can delete this article (in accordance with its talk page).--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:05, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
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== Map Source ==
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[[:File:Wilderland (cropped).png|Where is this from]]?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 09:53, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
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:It's cropped from [http://www.galeon.com/pergamino/hobbit/tolmap2.jpg this].--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:22, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
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== Rob Alexander ==
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I was preparing to delete [[:Category:Images by Rob Alexander|Rob Alexander's images]] when I noticed on [[:File:Forod.jpg]] that that particular image is from the [[Middle-earth Collectible Card Game]]. Is this true for the rest of the Rob Alexander's images?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:54, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
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:<nowiki>*ahem* ;</nowiki>) --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:07, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
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::Sorry! A quick answer: to find out which images by Rob Alexander that were used in the MECCG, you can type his name in the search field "Text on card" at this [http://www.tradecardsonline.com/im/selectCard/game_id/20/goal/ website]. It's a bit tedious (since you would have to look at each card to determine the artwork); I can do it when time permits me.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:53, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
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:::Thanks! They're all from MECC.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 12:32, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
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== Uploading Picture File ==
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Hello Morgan,
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I am new on this site (ex-HBaratte during the last eight days), and I wrote the new article for The Inland Sea (MERP), but I can't upload the picture file of its cover, so could you tell me how I must do ? Thanks very much !
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Basile II 22:41, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
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:Hello Basile and welcome! I believe new users must do more than 20 edits before it's possible to upload images (as a kind of protection against spam bots uploading images). Let me know if it doesn't work for you after those 20 edits, and I'll look into it.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 04:30, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
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== MERP Books ==
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Could you [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Basile_II take a look that these]? This stock number thing (what does it even mean?!) seems a bit messy to me but I don't know if that's the thing you usually on those articles. If you could give it a little look-over that would be good. Thanks! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:15, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
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:ICE's stock number is a unique number for a specific product, which is quite handy when searching for information about a supplement (some listings only use the stock number). It would look nicer to include this in the template, though -- perhaps a unique "book" template for the ICE/MERP stuff. Or perhaps even better: would it be possible to have a non-fixed line in the book template (so you could add stuff like this)? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:25, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
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::OK, so they should say "ICE stock number", then, to make it clear what it actually is. I can create a blank field in templates but there are occasions where people could mess it up; if I make a specific ICE stock number field in the book template will that be OK? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 22:06, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
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:::It would be great. And an idea: on the book template page it would be nice to have two versions of the book template (since I often copy+paste the code): one with the basic fields that most often are used, and one extended with unusual and product-specific fields. Something like this (if you understand what I mean):
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<pre>
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{{book
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| title=
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| image=
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| author=
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| date=
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| format=
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| pages=
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| isbn=
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}}
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</pre>
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<pre>
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{{book
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| title=
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| image=
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| author=
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[...]
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| ice=
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| series=
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| precededby=
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| followedby=
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[etc.]
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</pre>
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:::--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:26, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
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::::I can do that. Where in the template would you like it to go? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:14, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Hmm... how about below the ISSN field?--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:41, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
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::::::[[Template:Book|Will this do]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:53, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Brilliant. Thanks.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:00, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
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::::::::Would it look better above the ISBN, do you think? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:10, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
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Latest revision as of 00:16, 2 January 2017

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Welcome to Morgan/2015–6's talk page.

Contents

why did you delete my post about translating?

recently i posted about some translating english to elvish, and you deleted that post. so rude Unsigned comment by MrSkinny21 (talk • contribs).

Until Morgan answers, I'd like to inform you that your question was out of topic. The TG forum questions should be about the maintainance and improvement of TG, its policies and its articles, not random discussions about Tolkien. You should try with Elfling or other Tolkien forums. Sage 18:30, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
Ditto!--Morgan 19:53, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
And as someone who has, in the past, attempted to master some of the Elven tongues, let me just say: it's a fool's errand to translate things. You can exercise, and it's nice couleur locale for a fanfic, but there are too many problems. Tolkien changed his mind, and we simply don't know enough words to do it, and Tolkien changed his mind, or they're really reconstructions that don't account for irregularities, and did I mention Tolkien changed his mind? He did that a lot. Every Elvish translation site you see online uses a fanon reconstruction, and there are different versions at that (because have I mentioned Tolkien changed his mind?), especially concerning past tense and personal pronouns. Some are better than others, but none of them are perfection, because perfect Elvish didn't even exist in Tolkien's mind. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:32, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Also, I just want to point out that when creating Quenya, Sindarin, Khuzdul, etc. Tolkien tended to change his mind, a lot. :) --Hyarion 03:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

World War I

Hello. You've deleted my emendation on the numbers of British casualties along with Rob Gilson, in the first day of the Somme battle. But if you look at the page 158 of Tolkien and the Great War, you'll see that the number of 360,000 casualties is impossible and it's more probably 36,000.

"Rob Gilson's division had lost most heavily of all on the first day of the Battle of the Somme, but along with the British front there had been 57,000 casualties: out of the 100,000 who entered No Man's Land, 20,000 had been killed and twice as many wounded."
― {{{2}}}

So, nearly 40,000. This number is the same given in the table of the lost and wounded British on the Wikipedia (sorry, I can't find an equivalent english table), with 35,493 casualties. The number of 360,000 is the number of total casualties for the whole Battle of the Somme. Maybe, a reformulation of the sentence can be useful, because it's a little vague. I'm not a English native speaker, and I understand this sentence like if the 360,000 casualties felt on this same day with Rob Gilson, but it's not the case. Thank you for your time. 82.244.254.212 09:47, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi. As you say, the sentence right now is a bit ambiguous; I read it as referring to the whole Battle of the Somme, but if it's read as referring to only the first day, the number you suggest seems to be the correct one. I agree that a reformulation of the sentence would be useful. Thanks for taking time to explain the issue! --Morgan 00:40, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Talk:The Hobbit (film series)/Mistakes

look what I have written in Talk:The Hobbit (film series) about some mistakes.

Can you check something in the Reader's Companion book?

I'm trying to get a source verified for the Utumno etymology. I found a reference to the meaning of the place name online, but I do not own the book. From the talk page: the translation as 'Dark Pit' or 'Hell' comes from The Lord of the Rings: a Reader's Companion p. 297. When you have a chance, can you verify if that is legit and source the reference? You seem to have a few editions of this book in your collection, but I am not sure if the page number will match. --Elf-esteem 17:42, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Page 297 is the correct reference. Here is a transcript of the entry in the Reader's Companion:
Udûn — In his unfinished index Tolkien defines Udûn as '"dark pit", the dwelling of Morgoth beneath Thangorodrim ... called the Underworld of old' (distinct from Udûn a place in Mordor; see note for p. 928). The 1966 Index adds 'Udûn hell'.
--Morgan 15:23, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Woot! That's it! Thank you so much Morgan. You are made of win. ^_^ --Elf-esteem 17:58, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Bree-folk

I see you had tagged for cleanup some abiguous articles about the Bree-landers, Bree-folk, Bree-men, Big and Little Folk and so on. I have made several improvements since then, but I didn't touch your tag. I hope they are up to the standards now; you can check again and remove the tags if you wish. Sage 13:26, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know (and for your work)! I only changed the tag, though, since some sections are still almost direct quotes from EoA (see this).--Morgan 19:45, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

The Oxford Comma

Generally, I'm a fan of the Oxford comma (or serial comma) because it neatly ties off lists and keeps the sentence clear. Though I understand it is not always necessary for clarity, what is the TG style recommendation for it? Use it only for clarity or do not use it at all? I have noticed several micro-edits going through that are doing nothing but removing Oxford commas or just moving commas around, seemingly incorrectly, based on that editor's preference, and I was not sure how to proceed. Since I do not want to appear to be edit warring, I wanted to ask an admin first. --Elf-esteem 01:27, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't think we've ever discussed the issue. What you could do is to bring it up for discussion at the Tolkien Gateway talk:Manual of Style. As a non-native English speaker it's hard for me to provide a suggestion in this case (although I personally favour the Oxford comma in English).--Morgan 08:19, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

"Intimidating/abusive behavior"?

Since when was politely requesting another user to correct their own spelling mistakes--on a side-note, no less--considered intimidating or abusive? And then immediately blocking me without any sort of forewarning? Just how is that fair?70.92.179.85 23:51, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Why would it be relevant to ask someone to correct a spelling mistake when arguing on a talk page? I found your strategy to be a clear example of ridiculing another's argument. If you had been registered as a user you would just have gotten a warning on your talk page, rather than a 3 days ban.--Morgan 10:07, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
"Ridiculing another's argument"? That had nothing to do with the argument. The spelling was a different thing, entirely. And I still haven't gotten an explanation for why "Scourge of the Dragons" is any more "derivative" than "War of the Dwarves and Dragons". 70.92.179.85 12:23, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Battle of Fornost and The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey

Hello.I would like to ask you something.Could the words of Galadriel in the White Council scene in the First Hobbit film<<when Angmar fell>> be considered as an indirect mention to the Battle of Fornost and its aftermath? Do you think the edits that I did on that page (Battle of Fornost)are correct or not?Unsigned comment by 2.86.255.128 (talk).