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Talk:Amras

This article needs to be worked on, in particular the Silmarillion version of the character Amras. - nikolet 21:16, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Ehm ... which version of name belongs with which version of the Legendarium?

As far as I can gather from The Shibboleth of Feanor, in the version where one of the twins died in the Shipburning at Losgar, the one who died (remaining the younger twin with the fathername Telufinwë) was Umbarto/Ambarto. In this version of the Legendarium Amras, subsequently changed to Amros, was the Sindarin form of Ambarussa, the mothername used by both twins, but by others only applied to the older twin, Pityafinwë.

So the article as it stands belongs rather under the title of Amrod (or even Amarthan) with certain corrections to names.

See also Talk:Amrod -- Mithrennaith 01:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

According to commentary in HoME XII under the mother names on (p.353) and the note 62 (p. 366) Tolkien exchanged mother names of the twins and turned Ambarto into Umbarto to fit the legend: "It was then, no doubt, that my father changed the name Ambarto to Umbarto in the list and reversed the names of the twin brothers (see note 62), so that Ambarussa becomes the elder of the two and Ambarto/Umbarto the youngest of Fëanor's children, as he is in the legend told here." Thus the information of Amras being the fated twin burnt in Losgar seems correct. There is no information on exchanging Amros and Amras on father name list, as I understand only Ambarussa & Ambarto/Umbarto were exchanged, not father nor Sindarin names? Sirielle 17:14, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Correct quote, exactly the wrong conclusion, I'm afraid. It was the youngest of the twins that ws burnt in Losgar "in the legend told here", thus according to the quote Ambarto/Umbarto, which is translated into Sindarin (or Sindarized) Amrod/Amarthan, and quite clearly not Amras.
See also Talk:Amrod -- Mithrennaith 17:34, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry that, when I wrote the previous reply, I had only seen the first version of Sirielle’s post, and had failed to notice that she had changed it straightaway. As a result I had not realised that she had missed the connection between the mothernames and Sindarin names (because I could not conceive that I could ever have failed to see the connection myself), and thus had (wrongly) assumed that she had misinterpreted the legend of the shipburning to arrive at the wrong name for the burned son. Hence my previous reply. I only learned of her actual reasoning when I saw the copy of her (changed) post that she had placed on Talk:Amrod, and so I pointed out there that the Sindarin names are in fact (mostly) the translations or Sindarizations of the mothernames.
Because I failed to notice Sirielle's changes to her post, I also inadvertently overwrote them when replying. Only just now I noticed what had happened, and I have restored her post to the final version she intended. Hence this explanation that I actually replied to another version. (Further explanations on the Sindarizing of the names on Talk:Amrod) -- Mithrennaith 21:30, 11 December 2009 (UTC)