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Talk:Goblins

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[edit] Keeping?

Actually in the Hobbit language the word for Orc was actually "Orc" and so was Rohans,

? Westron was for Goblin and Orc was Orka (PE17)

the word "Goblin" is used to describe an Feral Orc who is not of Mordor nor is he in service of Sauron but rather they obey their own tribal war chiefs and some Goblins even have Kingdoms and are ruled by Kings(Such as goblin town in the Hobbit),

Source?

due to the fact that "Goblin-men" exist suggests that Goblins can breed and give birth, unlike Orcs of Sauron who are spawned in mud.

Again, source? The whole matter of Orc reproduction is too fuzzy to blatantly state "they spawned from mud"

Goblins are descended from the Orcs of Morgoth who fled to the mountains after his defeat(namely Gundabad and the misty mountains),

Probably some truth in that.

when Sauron took the throne of the dark lord

He didn't really take over business, he started over some place else.

he saw that Orcs still had a use but he ether modified his own to be different for one reason or the other

Source?

or simply did not have as much power as Morgoth and was forced to create a new type(This is a more likely answer seeing as how Sauron could not exert dominion over the remnants of Morgoths Orcs),

Source?

notice that even in the books

You mean you haven't been using the Books so far?

that the word Goblin is sometimes substituted by the word Orc, in the lord of the rings trilogy the word Orc is never substituted by the word goblin.

It was only used in The Hobbit.

In the movies(and all sources that are based off it such as the battle for middle earth) goblin's appear to have larger eyes and smaller bodies than Orcs but are also noted as being physically stronger due to the amount of strength required to climb the walls of Moria as they are seen doing in the lord of the rings movie.

Cleanup, much? already mentioned in the Adaptations section.

All in all it is possible that Tolkien did not intend the difference between Orcs and Goblins to be as vast as it was in the movies but the differences are clearly their and seeing as how he wrote both the LOTR trilogy and the Hobbit he did intend for their to be some small difference, mainly Orcs of Mordor being Enslaved to Saurons will and goblins being independent)

Rip open another can of debate: the questionable canon of The Hobbit. Surely there's something in Letters on Goblins.

Summary: I deleted it from the article. If anyone favours keeping, get it back from the history and please clean it up, and source it. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 08:00, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] New question

The word "Orc" is once mentioned in the Hobbit by Gandalf. I don't remember if it is mentioned alongside the word "goblin", implying they are (somehow) different things. Personally I like to envision that goblins are the hobbitish name for the Orcs of the Misty Mountains (since this branch dominates the narrative of the Hobbit) in their folklore. Sage 11:13, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I checked my electronic copy of The Hobbit, and could only find "Orc" in Orcrist, but not as a separate word. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
I heard that Riddles in the Dark have a sentence near the end "the big ones, the orcs of the mountains". Can you check it? Sage 11:21, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Yep. It's there. I missed it because my copy (full of typos) spelled it "ores".
"A bit low for goblins, at least for the big ones," thought Bilbo, not knowing that even the big ones, the orcs of the mountains, go along at a great speed stooping low with their hands almost on the ground. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:31, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

To be blunt, there's no indication that goblin was a specifically hobbitish name. It is simply an English word as opposed to a Rohirric (Old English being used to represent that) word, and Tolkien used both terms in The Lord of the Rings synonymously. There are references to goblins entirely separate from hobbits, notably in "The Departure of Boromir". Eldorion

[edit] Jackson's film

In the film Legolas uses the term goblin apon entering Moria, but minutes later the Fellowship is back to calling them orcs. I'm not sure any serious conclusions can be drawn from this. TheBoost 17:56, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with "Orcs"?

A reason for keeping a separate article is that some adaptations use Goblins as a separate race from Orcs. This his hardly a reason enough, though, and perhaps we should merge with Orcs.--Morgan 07:42, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Portrayal in Adaptations can easily deal with this. Does this apply to Category:Images of Orcs, too? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 09:38, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps keep the Cat:Images of Goblins (if I understood you correctly) in order to distinguish such pictures which are literally said to be images of Goblins..?--Morgan 09:41, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
If I remember correctly Goblins are a race in The Letters of Father Christmas, so I think we should keep an article about them. Though (most) information from Middle-earth can be moved to Orcs. --Amroth 13:17, 3 July 2011 (UTC)