Tolkien Gateway

Talk:Ravens

[edit] Progress

I've searched for ravens throughout most of JRRT's works (including the HoMe; not searched VT and PE, though). IMO, there's not much more to add. Perhaps something could be said about their association with "darkness" (as in the colour black), which appear in not so few places. See e.g.:

"and great ships laden with light,
coming to haven, dark as a raven," ( J.R.R. Tolkien, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, "The Sea-Bell")

(A related discussion is found in J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún, pp. 356-7) --Morgan 02:52, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Inspiration from Norse mythology

An observation from the research: In The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún appears a pairing of wolves and ravens:

"There is crying of ravens,
cold howls the wolf, (J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún, p. 285)

This pairing is echoed in The Lay of Leithian:

"the legions of his marshalled hate,
on whom did wolf and raven wait" (J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Lays of Beleriand, p. 161)

"The wolf howls. The ravens flee" (J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Lays of Beleriand, p. 231) --Morgan 02:52, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I think this is a brilliantly useful and insightful observation, which must be included! And, of course, in English literature ravens are frequently associated with ill-omen (most famously in Edgar Allan Poe's "The Raven").
In the UK, the government makes sure that there is a minimum of six ravens at the Tower of London (including clipping their wings and having "reserve" ravens) as there is a belief that if the ravens leave the monarchy will fall. Perhaps the ravens of Erebor are performing a similar function to the ravens of the Tower of London? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 13:08, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
And what of Huginn and Muninn? -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 13:16, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Morgan's already included that. I'm just playing with ideas. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 13:27, 5 December 2010 (UTC)