Tolkien Gateway



[edit] Is Thranduil Really a Blond?

The only mention of Thranduil possibly having pale hair is in the Hobbit, a source that is rife with Tolkien’s reconsiderations (Elrond is described as an “elf-friend” rather than the half-elf he actually is), and when Tolkien was rewriting his mythos, Tolkien changed the hair colours of ‘gold haired’ elves to a darker colour, one noteworthy case was Lúthien who was originally golden-haired.

So it’s possible that Tolkien was planning on retconning Thranduil’s hair colour when he began to rewrite the Hobbit but never came to finish it. Moreover Thranduil is a Teleri elf, specifically a Sindar, and therefore shouldn’t have gold hair, as Sindar traditionally have brown hair, and even the close kin of Thingol had silver hair, not golden.

Also it’s entirely possible that the golden colour of his hair may have come from the light of the fires the elves had lit fo their feast.

Side note: there’s a mousy-haired elf four minutes into the movie Fellowship of the Ring who’s believed to be Thranduil, as stated by a fan who’s met the cast of the film.

[edit] Excess Information

I am divided about articles such as these. It is very well written and includes a lot of information, however much of it is also (well-written) peripheral information, not directly related to Thranduil. Such information is the Last Alliance, the Necromancer, the Quest of Erebor, how Smaug died, the Hunt of Gollum. All in all, this article is a general history of the Elves of Mirkwood. Yes, Thranduil fought with the Last Alliance but his biography is not a synopsis of the War. Yes, Thranduil did have two encounters with Thorin and Co., but his biography is not a synopsis of their Quest. Yes, Thranduil was alive and ruled the Elves of Mirkwood during all of their recorded history, and perhaps he allowed or participated in the hunt for Gollum, but his life is not tied to the history of his realm.

My normal reaction as a reader/editor would be to trim much of those details, which can be repeated elsewhere (eg. Elves of Mirkwood or even Woodland Realm), but I am sure that another member of our fellowship considered a good thing to put his talent and effort in compiling a complete narrative of the events surrounding Thranduil. From his point of view, my trimming would be butchering this well-writen article.

Thranduil is just one example of such articles with much peripheral information. What is your opinion? Sage 12:39, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

If a piece of information loses its peripheral status when moved to another, specific article, then I'd say it's a good move.--Morgan 12:49, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
+1. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 13:16, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
Morgan, you mean that the movements toward the Thranduil article were good moves? Or you suggest the opposite?
Ederchil, I thought your +1 falls under Morgan's comment, but the ident shows it falls under mine; so, you agree that Thranduil article has too much indirect information and has to be trimmed? Sage 11:36, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
You. Keep it as concise and to the point as possible. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:39, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Sage: yes, I agree that the Thranduil article should be trimmed.--Morgan 11:40, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
In my newness to editing here, I ended up adding more information, including information about the War of the Last Alliance, which may have only added to the bloat. My view was that of an Elf fan who reads The Hobbit and finds it woefully lacking on Thranduil's backstory, heck, it doesn't even have his name in it. Then there's people who only saw the films, and they know next to nothing aside from Peter Jackson's version of the character. When it's a very popular character, there's a desire to know as much about him as there is to know. For example, the War of the Ring information is terribly interesting. However, if brevity is the order of the day, I know I'm really bad at that. I don't do laconic well. Should I just remove what I added today? I fear I made it worse, not better. Elf-esteem 23:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Okay, I moved some of the stuff I wrote and some of the war and population stuff to other pages where it made more sense. But, like I wrote last week, Thranduil has a big fandom, hungry for info, and this is a great resource. There is a lot of fanon about him, and this clears up most of it in one spot. Whomever it was that started this article did a good job. I think it's awesome to have pretty much everything he was involved in, with his part in it, clarified on one page. I think it's incorrect to say that his life is not tied to the history of his realm; I think it is inseparable. He is the last Elvenking in Middle-earth. Elves are, literally, tied to their lands and the land remembers them. That's how they are characterized. I can find multiple references that support that notion. But, then again, I fully acknowledge that I am wholly bias for the Elves. :P Elf-esteem 08:17, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

[edit] When Thranduil was born?

I cound't find a canon source which says Thranduil was present in the First Age... Haran 20:43, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Unfinished Tales states categorically that Oropher was from Doriath, but it is rather ambiguous about Thranduil. I was obviously similarly sceptical about this as it was me who added {{fact}} to the statement. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 14:24, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
If it is of any consequence, Foster's Guide mentions he was born sometime in FA although his sources aren't specific. The sources [edit: those I can recall right now] don't exclude the possibility that he was born in Lindon after the WoW. We can add "Possibly First Age or early Second Age" with a ref to the Guide, or some footnote. It's not orthodox but it works. Sage 16:21, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
I made a modification in the box and in the text, look there and please make any necessary corrections. Haran 17:34, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Thranduil sailed west?

The text says "he probably passed over the Sea to Valinor eventually". Is it probable indeed? Thranduil is descendant of elves from Beleriand who had the desire of living as avari... They are excellent candidates to not pass over the Sea. Haran 17:34, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

I think it is possible that he sailed West eventually, like his son. But that part in the article seems unnecessary to me, as it is just a speculation. Amaranth 16:15, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
+1. It is, of course, possible. However, there is no stated evidence for it and, therefore, is simply speculation on our part. Thranduil's history should end with "Thranduil's ultimate fate is unknown". --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:08, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
+1 I agree just saying his fate is unknown is best. It's true. Elf-esteem 23:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

[edit] The Resources bullet point list

Are those necessary? It's sort of redundant to have a bullet point list of resources under the list of cited resources. Elf-esteem 23:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Those bullet points are from about ten years ago before we had the current technical abilities to insert proper inline references. They're mostly kept now in articles that currently lack inline references. They can be removed whenever you encounter them. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:37, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Elvish

I noticed that Thranduil is referred to as a Sinda, is that singular? The Hobbit says that Thranduil was of the Sindar race, does that make him a Sindar?

[edit] He wasn't the only Elf-Lord to hold a kingdom without a ring

Círdan held the Havens without a ring - he gave it to Gandalf. Unsigned comment by (talk).

A fair challenge. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:37, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

[edit] Thranduil's title

Latest revision as of 16:10, 3 May 2020: The title of "King of the Woodland Realm" was never explicitly given to him but he IS reffered to as the "King of the Silvan Elves".

What you said is true but there is also a population of Silvan Elves living in Lothlórien and Thranduil does not rule over them so it is incorrect to say he is the King of the Silvan Elves and it is important to differentiate between the two. To compromise this I will put the title as written in the index of Unfinished Tales for you with a source.--Gaetano 23:30, 3 May 2020 (UTC)