Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

Talk:The Atlas of Middle-earth

2026-01-07T14:47:14Z

Algathrim: /* Errors and criticism */ Reply

==Oakbottom==
I added that one to Oatbarton some time ago, but can't find reference anymore. It's spelled correctly on 70-1.

Also useful might be the inclusion of [[Tarnost]] on pp 88-9, and the inclusion of "Sackville" as a town name (70-1). And maybe something about "things that are now shown to be incorrect", like Hardbottle. Fonstad placed it in the SF, but [[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings|Nomenclature]] placed it in the NF. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:56, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

:I am not aware of these, so I would love it if you could make the additions. Also, I am afraid if the article is a bit too negative. I really love this book. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:27, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

::Maybe a rewrite is necessary. I don't like articles that have a bulk of text first and their first section header at the bottom. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:41, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

==Third edition==

Did the 3rd edition add anything new or was it just a reprint? --[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 15:28, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

:I think a reprint but the TolkienBooks.net might have a better idea. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:59, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
::Yup, that's what I thought, too. It was only done for the films. But I'll check with Tolkienbooks.net and emend here. --[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 12:15, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

==Lists of versions, bibliography, reviews, etc.==

I made a comprehensive edit to everything that's been added since the last time I checked in on this article, and first want to say Airyn made additions of new inconsistencies and errors that greatly contribute to the article's value to a reader of the ''Atlas''.

The thing I wanted to open to discussion is this: I removed several of the sections that Airyn added. I don't think it's usual for us to include lists of reviews, other works by the author, etc. on pages for a particular work, unless there's something directly relevant to the encyclopedia reader about said reviews or other works. Is there some significance to those that I missed?

I could see that 4 of the 6 reviews were from the ISBN lookup page, so I figured they would be covered via inclusion of the external link. I left the foreign language edition list in because I couldn't tell where that information came from. Airyn, if you have a source for that similar to isfdb.org, maybe you would consider removing that list from the article and replacing it with an external link? [[Special:Contributions/Mord|Mord]] 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

:I agree with you that the other works shouldn't be included; I also think on the reviews you don't want a list of reviews but what is worthwhile is a "Reception" section detailed what people thought of the good. (It's generally good but has some errors and makes some assumptions, I guess would be the general thrust.)
:It's been a very long time since I looked at this article, but what struck me is why we even have an inconsistencies and errors section. There is no referencing or backing of it in any kind; we can't "defend" the wiki's claims here on the inconsistencies/errors as they are own research without any referencing. I appreciate it is not a big thing but does probably need looking at. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:07, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

==Errors and criticism==

This section on potential errors is useful, as there is no official errata page for the book (unlike the one for Hammond and Scull's Reader's Companion).

I believe Airyn was the main contributor. As a newcomer to editing this wiki and still inexperienced, I want to avoid making disruptive changes. While checking the editions I own (1981 printing and 2001 revised edition), I could not verify several of the listed issues. They may appear in other printings.

Adding brief notes on which edition each item affects would make the section more reliable and easier for others to verify or expand.

I would be glad to help organize it, but I would prefer to connect with Airyn or anyone familiar with these points first to avoid duplicating effort.

One small suggestion: a more neutral title like "Textual Notes and Variants" or "Edition Differences and Corrections" might better reflect the section's purpose.

Thanks to all contributors. [[User:Algathrim|"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."]] ([[User talk:Algathrim|talk]]) 05:22, 6 January 2026 (UTC)
:I have the 1992 edition, if you wish to compare notes. [[User:Calion|Calion]] ([[User talk:Calion|talk]]) 20:08, 6 January 2026 (UTC)
::Yes, please. [[User:Algathrim|"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."]] ([[User talk:Algathrim|talk]]) 07:14, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
::I am currently reviewing the section and making notes to show what seems valid in the '81 and '01 editions. Then maybe we can have a look at your '91 for comparison? [[User:Algathrim|Algathrim]] ([[User talk:Algathrim|talk]]) 14:47, 7 January 2026 (UTC)

Talk:The Atlas of Middle-earth

2026-01-07T07:14:49Z

Algathrim: /* Errors and criticism */ Reply

Talk:The Atlas of Middle-earth

2026-01-06T05:22:36Z

Algathrim: /* Errors and criticism */ new section

==Oakbottom==
I added that one to Oatbarton some time ago, but can't find reference anymore. It's spelled correctly on 70-1.

Also useful might be the inclusion of [[Tarnost]] on pp 88-9, and the inclusion of "Sackville" as a town name (70-1). And maybe something about "things that are now shown to be incorrect", like Hardbottle. Fonstad placed it in the SF, but [[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings|Nomenclature]] placed it in the NF. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:56, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

:I am not aware of these, so I would love it if you could make the additions. Also, I am afraid if the article is a bit too negative. I really love this book. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:27, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

::Maybe a rewrite is necessary. I don't like articles that have a bulk of text first and their first section header at the bottom. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:41, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

==Third edition==

Did the 3rd edition add anything new or was it just a reprint? --[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 15:28, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

:I think a reprint but the TolkienBooks.net might have a better idea. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:59, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
:: Yup, that's what I thought, too. It was only done for the films. But I'll check with Tolkienbooks.net and emend here. --[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 12:15, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

== Lists of versions, bibliography, reviews, etc. ==

I made a comprehensive edit to everything that's been added since the last time I checked in on this article, and first want to say Airyn made additions of new inconsistencies and errors that greatly contribute to the article's value to a reader of the ''Atlas''.

The thing I wanted to open to discussion is this: I removed several of the sections that Airyn added. I don't think it's usual for us to include lists of reviews, other works by the author, etc. on pages for a particular work, unless there's something directly relevant to the encyclopedia reader about said reviews or other works. Is there some significance to those that I missed?

I could see that 4 of the 6 reviews were from the ISBN lookup page, so I figured they would be covered via inclusion of the external link. I left the foreign language edition list in because I couldn't tell where that information came from. Airyn, if you have a source for that similar to isfdb.org, maybe you would consider removing that list from the article and replacing it with an external link? [[Special:Contributions/Mord|Mord]] 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

:I agree with you that the other works shouldn't be included; I also think on the reviews you don't want a list of reviews but what is worthwhile is a "Reception" section detailed what people thought of the good. (It's generally good but has some errors and makes some assumptions, I guess would be the general thrust.)
:It's been a very long time since I looked at this article, but what struck me is why we even have an inconsistencies and errors section. There is no referencing or backing of it in any kind; we can't "defend" the wiki's claims here on the inconsistencies/errors as they are own research without any referencing. I appreciate it is not a big thing but does probably need looking at. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:07, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

== Errors and criticism ==

This section on potential errors is useful, as there is no official errata page for the book (unlike the one for Hammond and Scull's Reader's Companion).

I believe Airyn was the main contributor. As a newcomer to editing this wiki and still inexperienced, I want to avoid making disruptive changes. While checking the editions I own (1981 printing and 2001 revised edition), I could not verify several of the listed issues. They may appear in other printings.

Adding brief notes on which edition each item affects would make the section more reliable and easier for others to verify or expand.

I would be glad to help organize it, but I would prefer to connect with Airyn or anyone familiar with these points first to avoid duplicating effort.

One small suggestion: a more neutral title like "Textual Notes and Variants" or "Edition Differences and Corrections" might better reflect the section's purpose.

Thanks to all contributors. [[User:Algathrim|"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."]] ([[User talk:Algathrim|talk]]) 05:22, 6 January 2026 (UTC)

User talk:Airyn

2026-01-05T22:44:28Z

Algathrim: /* Change to "The Grey Mountains," dated 20:57, 23 June 2023. */ new section

{{Template:Welcome|realName=Simon|name=Airyn}}

-- [[User:Mith|'''Mith''']] ([[User talk:Mith|'''Talk''']]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|Edits]]) 20:02, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

==Other versions of the legendarium and Sperling mistake==
I appreciate that you include information from The Nature of Middle-earth (template NM), because I do not have access to it. However, information from NM that contradicts information in a page or in the genealogy section in a page should only be included in the Other versions of the legendarium section of the page. In addition, one of your edits from today introduced a Sperling mistake that did not exist before. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 12:28, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

==Adding a footnote to the Durthang page==
I noticed that you added a footnote to the Durthang page that related to the position of Durthang on one of J.R.R. Tolkien's draft maps that was published in The Art of The Lord of the Rings. Since this information relates to a draft map and not the final map that was published with The Lord of the Rings, I removed it, created an Other versions of the legendarium section on the Durthang page and moved the information relating to the position on the draft map there. I do not have a copy of the Art of The Lord of the Rings, so I do not know if we checked the same draft map, because I looked at a manuscript map of Rohan, Gondor and Mordor that I found on the web with blue grid lines and contour lines for mountains and which also shows lines with the route taken by Frodo and Sam. If you look at the Map of Rohan, Gondor, and Mordor page, click on the map in the top right corner of that page so that a separate page with just the map opens, click on Original file to get the maximum solution and then use the magnifying glass mouse cursor symbol to zoom in on the map, you can see the cone symbol with the label Durthang immediately to its right. I would appreciate if you could compare this position with the position on the map in The Art of the Lord of the Rings and let me know if they are in the same location. I recommend that you have a look at the Template:HM page to make yourself familiar with the template for The Art of the Lord of the Rings and for other works and to also look at the page of Templates that supersede some of those templates. I also recommend the Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style, Help:References and Tolkien Gateay:Naming policy pages to you. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 17:42, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

== Discord ==
Hey Airyn! Do you have a Discord account? Because if you do, you might be interested in a recent discussion I had on the overall geography and size of Arda, as well as IMO an overrelliance on the 'Ambarkanta' maps: https://discord.com/channels/919188348319444993/919667692217188432/1162115871574065293
https://discord.com/channels/919188348319444993/919667692217188432/1162112804640268469
https://discord.com/channels/919188348319444993/919667692217188432/1162119352305336422

...and so forth... - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] ([[User talk:IvarTheBoneless|talk]]) 19:57, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

The origin of my criticism is this map, and its scale factor: https://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/6/6e/Quentin_Lowagie_-_Arda_in_the_Third_Age.png - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] ([[User talk:IvarTheBoneless|talk]]) 20:00, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

== Change to "The Grey Mountains," dated 20:57, 23 June 2023‎. ==

Greetings! Thanks for helping keep the page edited. I was curious to understand the reason behind the above-referenced edit and removing this in its entirety:

'''Pages 4 and 5: The Grey Mountains are shown in western Haradwaith south of the Great Gulf rather than in the Southlands.'''

I've copies of the 1981 First Edition and the 2001 Revised Edition and can see what this reference referred to, although Fonstad didn't mention the "Southlands" and perhaps that's why the text was deleted?

I'm a newbie to the editing on Wiki, so maybe its somewhere I overlooked.

Thank you! [[User:Algathrim|Algathrim]] ([[User talk:Algathrim|talk]]) 22:44, 5 January 2026 (UTC)