Talk:Náin (son of Grór)

2024-06-21T14:29:30Z

Amethystviolist: /* Should Náin (son of Grór) be referenced as Náin III? */ Reply

==Should Náin (son of Grór) be referenced as Náin III?==

Náin (son of Grór) is third of his name of the Line of Durin. To my knowledge there is no canonical evidence calling him Náin III, however there is strong precedent for the Line of Durin numbering those with the same name (see multiples of: Dáin, Thorin, Thrain). For clarity and simplicity, might it be better to refer to this character as Náin III? [[User:Amethystviolist|Amethystviolist]] ([[User talk:Amethystviolist|talk]]) 17:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks so much for your suggestion! I'm on the fence, since like you said there is no source referring to him as Náin III. One thing I think we can do is to redirect "Náin III" to "Náin (son of Grór)" so at least if someone is searching for the dwarf, they are directed to the correct article. [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 18:28, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
::This Nain was never a King of Durin's Folk though - only the kings are numbered. See for example Oin and Gloin as well. [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] ([[User talk:IvarTheBoneless|talk]]) 13:56, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
:::<nowiki>This is a good point, and likely the reason for the difference. Thanks for pointing this out ~~~</nowiki> [[User:Amethystviolist|Amethystviolist]] ([[User talk:Amethystviolist|talk]]) 14:29, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Náin (son of Grór)

2024-06-20T17:00:54Z

Amethystviolist: /* Should Náin (son of Grór) be referenced as Náin III? */ new section

Arkenstone

2024-03-28T20:53:15Z

Amethystviolist: Updated broken link

{{object infobox
| name=Arkenstone
| image=[[Image:Donato Giancola - The Arkenstone.jpg|250px]]
| caption="The Arkenstone" by [[Donato Giancola]]
| pronun=
| othernames=Heart of the Mountain
| location=[[Erebor]]
| owner=[[Kings of Durin's Folk]] since [[Thráin I]]
| type=Jewel
| appearance=
| creator=
| created=
| createdlocation=
| destroyer=
| destroyed=
| destroyedlocation=
| notablefor=
| gallery=the Arkenstone
}}

{{quote|That stone of all the treasure I name unto myself, and I will be avenged on anyone who finds it and withholds it.|[[Thorin]] in ''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[A Thief in the Night]]"}}
The '''Arkenstone''' was a great jewel discovered beneath the roots of the [[Lonely Mountain]] during the reign of [[Thráin I]] and prized by his descendants as the "'''Heart of the Mountain'''".

==History==
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Heart of the Mountain.jpg|thumb|left|''Heart of the Mountain'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]
The Arkenstone was discovered soon after the establishment of the [[Dwarves|Dwarf]]-kingdom in the Lonely Mountain, and the Dwarves used all their skill to work the gem into a shimmering multi-faceted jewel. In the centuries after its discovery, the Arkenstone became an heirloom of the [[Kings of Durin's Folk|Kings]] of [[Durin's Folk]].

Thráin's son [[Thorin I]] carried it away into the [[Grey Mountains]] where it remained for some generations, until in time King [[Thrór]] brought it back to the [[Great Hall of Thráin]].<ref name="Durin">{{App|Durin}}</ref> When the [[Dragons|Dragon]] [[Smaug]] sacked Lonely Mountain, the Arkenstone was lost to the Dwarves of Durin's Folk — it lay among Smaug's booty in the halls of Erebor.
[[File:Ted_Nasmith_-_The_Arkenstone.jpg|thumb|''Arkenstone'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]
Many years later, when [[Thorin]] led a band of Dwarves to recover their ancient realm, their companion [[Bilbo Baggins]] discovered the Arkenstone, but kept it for himself. Thorin sought for it while exploring the treasure, and swore an oath to take revenge on anyone who knowingly kept it from him, but Bilbo stayed silent nonetheless.<ref name="home"/> Later, when the [[Lake-men]] and the [[Elves of Mirkwood|Wood-elves]] came to demand a share of Smaug's treasure from Thorin, Bilbo was disturbed by Thorin's unwillingness to barter. Hoping to aid negotiations, he secretly entered the camp of the Men and Elves and delivered the Arkenstone to their leaders, [[Bard]] and [[Thranduil]]. The next day a twelfth share of the treasure was demanded from Thorin for the ransom of his people's heirloom.<ref name="Thief">{{H|Thief}}</ref>

After the [[Battle of Five Armies]], enmity was set aside between the leaders of the Dwarves, Elves, and Men, and Bard of [[Dale]] placed the Heart of the Mountain on the breast of Thorin in Thorin's tomb. Thus, nearly a thousand years after its discovery, the Arkenstone was buried once more in the depths beneath the Lonely Mountain.

==Description==
The Dwarves worked the stone into a multifaceted jewel. It shone with its own pale light, but when outer light fell upon the Arkenstone, it "...changed it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance shot with glints of the rainbow". It was a heavy gem, small enough for [[Bilbo Baggins]] to hold in one hand, yet not so small that he could close his own small hand around it.<ref name="home">{{H|Home}}</ref>

==Etymology==
''Arkenstone'' means roughly "precious stone",<ref name=Silmaril>{{HH|While}}, (ii) ''The Arkenstone as Silmaril'', p. 603</ref> although the element *''arken'' does not exist in [[modern English]]. ''Arkenstone'' could be a modernization of the [[Old English]] name ''eorclanstán'' or an anglicization from the Old Norse name ''iarknasteinn'', which appears in the [[Edda]].<ref name=Silmaril/>

Note that [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] used the word ''eorclanstánas'' to refer to the [[Silmarilli]] in Old English texts by [[Ælfwine]].<ref>{{SM|VA1}}, entry '''MMD'''</ref> Some fans explore the [[Misconceptions#The Arkenstone was a Silmaril|possibility]] that the Arkenstone was one of the Silmarilli, specifically the one [[Maedhros]] threw in the chasm, until supposedly found by the Dwarves of Erebor.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/message/17693|articlename=RE: Eorclanstanas (was Re: For JDR: Query on Hobbit geography)|dated=2 January 2007|website=Mythsoc|accessed=9 June 2013}}</ref>

==Other versions of the legendarium==
In the writing of ''[[The Hobbit]]'' [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] halted after the capture of the Dwarves by the Wood-elves and sketched out the continuation of the story in plot notes. In these notes Bilbo stole a "gem", which became a "marvelous gem", and finally the "Jem [sic] of Girion" which the king of [[Dale]] had given to the Dwarves for the arming of his son.<ref>{{HH|PNB}}, p. 364</ref> As noted by [[John D. Rateliff]], the Gem of Girion was to be offered by the Dwarves to Bilbo as his share of the payment,<ref>{{HH|PNB}}, (vii) ''The Gem of Girion'', p. 373</ref> thus solving the problem of how to transport Bilbo's one-fourteenth share back to [[Bag End]].

Tolkien originally had the notion that Bilbo would kill Smaug. As his story progressed Tolkien decided that this strained credibility and so he introduced [[Bard]] as the dragon slayer and made him the heir of Girion. This led to a series of re-conceptualizations since now the Lake-men and the Elves were no longer mere opportunistic scavengers; there was one within their ranks with a legitimate claim to part of the treasure. The Gem of Girion became the Arkenstone and the one part of the hoard that Thorin would insist upon keeping. The elevation of Girion's gem led to the invention of the [[Necklace of Girion]] as the payment of Girion to the Dwarves for the arming of his son.<ref name=Silmaril>{{HH|While}}, (ii) ''The Arkenstone as Silmaril'', p. 603</ref>

==Portrayals in adaptations==
'''1966: ''[[The Hobbit (1966 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1966 film)]]'':'''
:In this film the Arkenstone was a heart-shaped jewel of Earth and was later used as an arrowhead to a large crossbow made of old mining machines by Bilbo and company to kill [[Smaug|Slag the Dragon]].

'''1977: ''[[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]'':'''
:The Arkenstone is omitted. In the place of this subplot, Bilbo voices a desire to be taken prisoner as quickly as possible prior to the Battle of Five Armies, to which Thorin responds that these are the words of a coward.

'''2003: ''[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)]]'':'''
:In the game, Thorin orders Bilbo to find the Arkenstone. He eventually finds it and, as in the book, gives it to [[Thranduil]] and [[Bard]] in order to help negotiate with the Dwarves and avoid war.

'''2012: ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]'':'''
:The Arkenstone is discovered during the reign of [[Thrór]] - rather than that of [[Thráin I]] - and never leaves the [[Lonely Mountain]]. It is considered a divine symbol for the [[King under the Mountain]] to rule, and is fastened on the king's throne. During the [[Sack of Erebor]], Thrór fails to save it as it falls into the great hoard of [[gold]].

'''2013: ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]'':'''
:The Arkenstone is seen depicted in a mural just inside the [[Back Door]]. It is mentioned that the [[Quest of Erebor]] was to retrieve it, as possessing it would give [[Thorin]] the authority to unite all the Dwarven clans to liberate [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]], and reclaim it from the [[Dragons|Dragon]] [[Smaug]]. [[Bilbo Baggins]] is shown to have found it in the treasure hoard during his conversation with Smaug, who even contemplates letting the [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] have it - just to see it corrupt Thorin's mind - before deciding against it.

'''2014: ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'':'''
:As in the book, the Arkenstone is given by Bilbo (who, it is revealed, recovered it during his escape from Smaug) to [[Thranduil]] and [[Bard]], in order to try to force Thorin to yield a share of the treasure. In [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (extended edition)|the extended edition of the film]], it was placed upon Thorin's chest following his death.

'''2018: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''
:It is said that King [[Thranduil]] believed Arkenstone to be nothing less than a lost [[Silmaril]] (a reference to a popular fan theory). He demanded to see it, but was refused by [[Thráin I]]. [[Mithrandir]] was able to convince Thranduil that the lost Silmarils could not be recovered, but the friendship between the elves and the dwarves remained tainted.

:In the days after the War of the Ring, it is suspected that the Arkenstone could have been stolen. [[Gandalf]], [[Thorin III]], [[Dís]] and the surviving members of the [[Thorin and Company|Company]] pay respects to Thorin's tomb and confirm that the Arkenstone remains in its resting place.

==External links==
*[http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=2158 New evidence for the Arkenstone-Silmaril case]
*[https://dawnfelagund.tumblr.com/post/105914458073/so-about-that-theory-that-the-arkenstone-is-a So About That Theory That the Arkenstone Is a Silmaril] - Criticism of the above theory
{{References}}
[[Category:Heirlooms]]
[[Category:Rings and jewels]]
[[de:Arkenstein]]
[[fr:encyclo/artefacts/bijoux/arkenstone]]
[[fi:Arkkikivi]]

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Talk:Náin (son of Grór)

Talk:Náin (son of Grór)

Arkenstone