Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

Shelob

2012-10-18T12:39:37Z

Bauglir100:

{{cleanup}}
{{sources}}
{{evil infobox
| image=[[Image:John Howe - Sam and Shelob.jpg|250px]]
| name=Shelob
| othernames=Her Ladyship
| created=Possibly early in the [[First Age]]
| years=
| age=
| destroyed=Unknown
| realm=[[Nan Dungortheb]] ([[First Age]]); [[Cirith Ungol]] ([[Second Age]] onwards)
| parentage=[[Ungoliant]]
| children=[[Spiders]] of [[Mirkwood]]
| gender=Female
| race=
| appearance=As a large spider
| accomplishments=
}}
'''Shelob''' was a great spider-like demigoddess descended from the demonic entity known as [[Ungoliant]].

==History==
Shelob was a huge creature in spider form, apparently the spawn of [[Ungoliant]] and some lesser spider of [[Arda]]. She dwelt high in the mountains of [[Mordor]], having established her lair there before [[Sauron]] claimed Mordor as his own. Shelob spent her early days feeding off elves and men, but as elves and men became scarce in the area, she fed upon [[orcs]]. Sauron would sometimes send her captured prisoners for whom he had no further use and amuse himself watching how she played with her prey. Even though they did not communicate, Sauron and Shelob understood each other. Shelob was like a pet to Sauron, and she served as a secure guardian of the pass of [[Cirith Ungol]] to prevent any intruders from entering the dark land.

[[File:Eytan Eylul Guler - Shelob and Sam.jpg|230px|thumb|left|'''Shelob and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]]''' by Eytan Eylul Guler.]]Her lair was along the path that [[Samwise Gamgee]] and [[Frodo Baggins]] took while seeking [[Mount Doom]]. Their guide, [[Gollum]] (whom the orcs of the [[Tower of Cirith Ungol]] call "Shelob's Sneak"), had reached some sort of understanding with her, and he led the hobbits directly into her trap.

While put off by the [[Phial of Galadriel]] in the tunnels, she intercepted them again outside and attacked Frodo, stinging him into a death-like coma. Sam managed to defeat her by letting her impale herself upon [[Sting]] when she tried to crush him under her massive body. Wounded, she fled to her lair and was never seen again.

Thinking Frodo dead, Sam took [[the One Ring]] from him and left his body behind, but discovered by listening to a party of Orcs that Shelob's venom was not intended to kill its victims but only to render them unconscious and keep their meat fresh.

==Etymology==
The name ''Shelob'' is derived from "lob", an archaic English word for spider. A variation, "cob" is the derivation of the word "cobweb". The first element, "she", simply mentions the spider's gender.<ref>{{L|70}}</ref>

==Portrayal in Adaptations==
[[Image:Shelob's face.jpg|thumb|right|Shelob's face from [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]].]]
'''2002: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''''

:Shelob can be seen to have a retractable venomous sting at the rear end between the spinnerets, resembling a wasp's sting. This is very much unlike real spiders which inject venom with their fangs but accurate relative to the novel. Shelob also appears to have a gaping mouth, whereas real spiders can ingest only liquid.

:In the book, on the other hand, "clusters" of eyes are mentioned, which may suggest compound eyes like those of insects; the Shelob in the movie does ''not'' have compound eyes, which is appropriate. A hunting spider of the family [[wikipedia:Lycosidae|Lycosidae]],{{fact}} which Shelob most closely resembles, would have two large eyes facing forward, and a few smaller ones almost hidden below. The only spiders that can reasonably be said to have "clustered" eyes (though not true compound eyes) are the daddy long-legs spiders of the family Pholcidae, but Shelob does not resemble these rather spindly and fragile spiders in other aspects of her physique.
{{references}}

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Shelob|Images of Shelob]]
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]
[[Category:Spirits]]
[[Category:Spiders]]
[[Category:Evil]]

[[de:Kankra]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/animaux/araignees/arachne]]
[[fi:Lukitari]]

Talk:Maiar

2012-10-18T12:18:54Z

Bauglir100:

According to Tolkien, Radagast the Brown was, in fact, a friend of Gandalf as evidenced by his conversation with him concerning the Ring on the Greenway near Bree. Animals shared a special relationship with him as well.

See also: http://www.tuckborough.net/otherbeings.html {{Unsigned|96.33.68.108}}

----
I think that Ungoliant should be added to the list of known Maiar, and be added to the Ainur template. Though it is not ''explicitly'' stated, there are many hints that Ungoliant was indeed a Maia, even in the published version of ''The Silmarillion''.

For example, she is a servant of Melkor that attempted to abandon her master's service prior to the Darkening of Valinor. Also, it is implied that she is one of the Ainur, but since the Ainur are divided into two groups, and all the members of one of the two groups (the Valar, to be specific) are all accounted for, this would make her one of the Maiar.

Plus, it ''is'' stated that the Maiar have a wide range of power, some even coming close to rivaling their own Vala masters, such as Ossë to Ulmo, or Sauron/Mairon to Aulë. And Ungoliant's ability to produce Unlight seems very much like the Balrogs' power over fire and shadow, since they are conjured from their very forms.

So should she be added here, and/or to the template? [[User:Bauglir100|Bauglir100]] 12:17, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Maiar

2012-10-18T12:17:28Z

Bauglir100:

According to Tolkien, Radagast the Brown was, in fact, a friend of Gandalf as evidenced by his conversation with him concerning the Ring on the Greenway near Bree. Animals shared a special relationship with him as well.

See also: http://www.tuckborough.net/otherbeings.html {{Unsigned|96.33.68.108}}

----
I think that Ungoliant should be added to the list of known Maiar, and be added to the Ainur template. Though it is not ''explicitly'' stated, there are many hints that Ungoliant was indeed a Maia, even in the published version of ''The Silmarillion''.

For example, she is a servant of Melkor that attempted to abandon her master's service prior to the Darkening of Valinor. Also, it is implied that she is one of the Ainur, but since the Ainur are divided into two group, and all the members of one of the two groups (the Valar, to be specific) are all accounted for, this would make her one of the Maiar.

Plus, it ''is'' stated that the Maiar have a wide range of power, some even coming close to rivaling their own Vala masters, such as Ossë to Ulmo, or Sauron/Mairon to Aulë. And Ungoliant's ability to produce Unlight seems very much like the Balrogs' power over fire and shadow, since they are conjured from their very forms.

So should she be added here, and/or to the template? [[User:Bauglir100|Bauglir100]] 12:17, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Shelob

2012-10-18T12:01:35Z

Bauglir100: Not necessarily. Though Ungoliant is not a goddess, she is (as The Silmarillion can imply) one of the Maiar, who are beings of the same order ass the Valar. And as Shelob is Ungoliant's daughter, she would be half-Maia, making her a "demi-goddess".

{{cleanup}}
{{sources}}
{{evil infobox
| image=[[Image:John Howe - Sam and Shelob.jpg|250px]]
| name=Shelob
| othernames=Her Ladyship
| created=Possibly early in the [[First Age]]
| years=
| age=
| destroyed=Unknown
| realm=[[Nan Dungortheb]] ([[First Age]]); [[Cirith Ungol]] ([[Second Age]] onwards)
| parentage=[[Ungoliant]]
| children=[[Spiders]] of [[Mirkwood]]
| gender=Female
| race=
| appearance=As a large spider
| accomplishments=
}}
'''Shelob''' was a great spider-like demigoddess descended from the malevolent entity known as [[Ungoliant]].

==History==
Shelob was a huge creature in spider form, apparently the spawn of [[Ungoliant]] and some lesser spider of [[Arda]]. She dwelt high in the mountains of [[Mordor]], having established her lair there before [[Sauron]] claimed Mordor as his own. Shelob spent her early days feeding off elves and men, but as elves and men became scarce in the area, she fed upon [[orcs]]. Sauron would sometimes send her captured prisoners for whom he had no further use and amuse himself watching how she played with her prey. Even though they did not communicate, Sauron and Shelob understood each other. Shelob was like a pet to Sauron, and she served as a secure guardian of the pass of [[Cirith Ungol]] to prevent any intruders from entering the dark land.

[[File:Eytan Eylul Guler - Shelob and Sam.jpg|230px|thumb|left|'''Shelob and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]]''' by Eytan Eylul Guler.]]Her lair was along the path that [[Samwise Gamgee]] and [[Frodo Baggins]] took while seeking [[Mount Doom]]. Their guide, [[Gollum]] (whom the orcs of the [[Tower of Cirith Ungol]] call "Shelob's Sneak"), had reached some sort of understanding with her, and he led the hobbits directly into her trap.

While put off by the [[Phial of Galadriel]] in the tunnels, she intercepted them again outside and attacked Frodo, stinging him into a death-like coma. Sam managed to defeat her by letting her impale herself upon [[Sting]] when she tried to crush him under her massive body. Wounded, she fled to her lair and was never seen again.

Thinking Frodo dead, Sam took [[the One Ring]] from him and left his body behind, but discovered by listening to a party of Orcs that Shelob's venom was not intended to kill its victims but only to render them unconscious and keep their meat fresh.

==Etymology==
The name ''Shelob'' is derived from "lob", an archaic English word for spider. A variation, "cob" is the derivation of the word "cobweb". The first element, "she", simply mentions the spider's gender.<ref>{{L|70}}</ref>

==Portrayal in Adaptations==
[[Image:Shelob's face.jpg|thumb|right|Shelob's face from [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]].]]
'''2002: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''''

:Shelob can be seen to have a retractable venomous sting at the rear end between the spinnerets, resembling a wasp's sting. This is very much unlike real spiders which inject venom with their fangs but accurate relative to the novel. Shelob also appears to have a gaping mouth, whereas real spiders can ingest only liquid.

:In the book, on the other hand, "clusters" of eyes are mentioned, which may suggest compound eyes like those of insects; the Shelob in the movie does ''not'' have compound eyes, which is appropriate. A hunting spider of the family [[wikipedia:Lycosidae|Lycosidae]],{{fact}} which Shelob most closely resembles, would have two large eyes facing forward, and a few smaller ones almost hidden below. The only spiders that can reasonably be said to have "clustered" eyes (though not true compound eyes) are the daddy long-legs spiders of the family Pholcidae, but Shelob does not resemble these rather spindly and fragile spiders in other aspects of her physique.
{{references}}

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Shelob|Images of Shelob]]
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]
[[Category:Spirits]]
[[Category:Spiders]]
[[Category:Evil]]

[[de:Kankra]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/animaux/araignees/arachne]]
[[fi:Lukitari]]

Talk:The Hobbit (1967 film)

2012-10-17T12:53:08Z

Bauglir100:

Best. Adaptation. Ever. I defy Peter Jackson to do better.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 15:35, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

:We should probably upload some images. Do we need a page on Princess Mika? Growns? Do we even know how to spell those? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 15:41, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

::I'd say yes to Princess Mika. I'm not sure about Growns. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 10:29, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

:::How do we spell it? Mika? Mieke? And her surname, Nillehammer? Nilnammer? Niwhatever? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:33, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

::::Maybe just The Princess, with a note that we are not sure how to spell her name. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 11:59, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

:::::The Director, Gene Deitch, says on his website that she was named after Pete Seeger's eldest daughter, Mika. The Princess's second name, Milovana, means "beloved woman" in Czech. [http://genedeitchcredits.com/roll-the-credits-01/40-william-l-snyder/#comment-1392] So maybe we can go for "Princess Mika Milovana"? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 12:28, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

::::::Yeah, Princess Mika Milovana sounds good. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 12:56, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Can we confirm that the name of the creatures is actually spelt "Growns"? Otherwise, It could just as easily be spelt "Groens", "Grones", or "Groans". Nonetheless, I think we should give these creatures their own article. We have articles for other non-canon material on the site, so I don't see why we can't include an article for these creatures, especially if you're considering giving Mika an article. [[Special:Contributions/69.210.37.206|69.210.37.206]] 22:59, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

:My guess on the spelling would be "groans." Seems appropriate for a monster. The name of the other creatures sounds like "grablins" to me. I don't think another article is necessary. What would we say? The cartoon is very short so there is not much info to include and they are simply stand-ins for Trolls and Goblins anyway. [[User:Fredeghar|Fredeghar]] 08:17, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

::I certainly wouldn't want an article until we can confirm the spelling! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:31, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

:::Well, this is a little late, but the proper spelling is indeed "Groans", according to Gene Deitch. I think that it should be enough to provide the creatures with their own article. After all, we provide articles for other non-canon material exclusive to adaptations. And since we've already made that article for {{Redlink|[[Princess Mika Milovana]]}}, I don't see why we shouldn't do the same for the [[Groans]], especially since they have many features that deviate them from the Trolls in the book. [[User:Bauglir100|Bauglir100]] 12:38, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

::::Bauglir100, do you have a source for that spelling? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:01, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

:::::Here: http://genedeitchcredits.com/roll-the-credits/40-william-l-snyder/ [[User:Bauglir100|Bauglir100]] 21:40, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

::::::Thanks for that - that's very useful. Unfortunately, Gene Deitch does not support your argument.

::::::{{blockquote|<nowiki>Characters were renamed (Trolls became Groans, Goblins = Grablins, Gollum = Guloom) and the dragon Slag (not Smaug) is despatched by Bilbo, the Princess and her retainers.</nowiki>|[http://genedeitchcredits.com/roll-the-credits/40-william-l-snyder/#comment-5311 Gene Deitch]}}

::::::It may be the case that they had features which make them dissimilar to trolls, but if he's saying that they were simply renamed trolls then I don't think they need a separate article. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:48, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

:::::::Well, even if they ''were'' called Trolls, they would have been in-name-only, anyhow. Groans have wooden, bark-like skin and turn into dead trees instead of stone statues when exposed to sunlight. If they can't get their own article, then they should ''at least'' get a mention in the "Portrayal in adaptations" section of the [[Trolls]] article. [[User:Bauglir100|Bauglir100]] 12:53, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Talk:The Hobbit (1967 film)

2012-10-11T21:40:23Z

Bauglir100:

Shelob

2012-10-11T13:01:26Z

Bauglir100: Shelob is the child of a powerful demonic entity (Ungoliant), and exhibits many of her mother's supernatural abilities/features, thus she can be called a demigoddess.

{{cleanup}}
{{sources}}
{{evil infobox
| image=[[Image:John Howe - Sam and Shelob.jpg|250px]]
| name=Shelob
| othernames=Her Ladyship
| created=Possibly early in the [[First Age]]
| years=
| age=
| destroyed=Unknown
| realm=[[Nan Dungortheb]] ([[First Age]]); [[Cirith Ungol]] ([[Second Age]] onwards)
| parentage=[[Ungoliant]]
| children=[[Spiders]] of [[Mirkwood]]
| gender=Female
| race=
| appearance=As a large spider
| accomplishments=
}}
'''Shelob''' was a powerful demigoddess descended from the spider-like entity known as [[Ungoliant]].

==History==
Shelob was a huge creature in spider form, apparently the spawn of [[Ungoliant]] and some lesser spider of [[Arda]]. She dwelt high in the mountains of [[Mordor]], having established her lair there before [[Sauron]] claimed Mordor as his own. Shelob spent her early days feeding off elves and men, but as elves and men became scarce in the area, she fed upon [[orcs]]. Sauron would sometimes send her captured prisoners for whom he had no further use and amuse himself watching how she played with her prey. Even though they did not communicate, Sauron and Shelob understood each other. Shelob was like a pet to Sauron, and she served as a secure guardian of the pass of [[Cirith Ungol]] to prevent any intruders from entering the dark land.

[[File:Eytan Eylul Guler - Shelob and Sam.jpg|230px|thumb|left|'''Shelob and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]]''' by Eytan Eylul Guler.]]Her lair was along the path that [[Samwise Gamgee]] and [[Frodo Baggins]] took while seeking [[Mount Doom]]. Their guide, [[Gollum]] (whom the orcs of the [[Tower of Cirith Ungol]] call "Shelob's Sneak"), had reached some sort of understanding with her, and he led the hobbits directly into her trap.

While put off by the [[Phial of Galadriel]] in the tunnels, she intercepted them again outside and attacked Frodo, stinging him into a death-like coma. Sam managed to defeat her by letting her impale herself upon [[Sting]] when she tried to crush him under her massive body. Wounded, she fled to her lair and was never seen again.

Thinking Frodo dead, Sam took [[the One Ring]] from him and left his body behind, but discovered by listening to a party of Orcs that Shelob's venom was not intended to kill its victims but only to render them unconscious and keep their meat fresh.

==Etymology==
The name ''Shelob'' is derived from "lob", an archaic English word for spider. A variation, "cob" is the derivation of the word "cobweb". The first element, "she", simply mentions the spider's gender.<ref>{{L|70}}</ref>

==Portrayal in Adaptations==
[[Image:Shelob's face.jpg|thumb|right|Shelob's face from [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]].]]
'''2002: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''''

:Shelob can be seen to have a retractable venomous sting at the rear end between the spinnerets, resembling a wasp's sting. This is very much unlike real spiders which inject venom with their fangs but accurate relative to the novel. Shelob also appears to have a gaping mouth, whereas real spiders can ingest only liquid.

:In the book, on the other hand, "clusters" of eyes are mentioned, which may suggest compound eyes like those of insects; the Shelob in the movie does ''not'' have compound eyes, which is appropriate. A hunting spider of the family [[wikipedia:Lycosidae|Lycosidae]],{{fact}} which Shelob most closely resembles, would have two large eyes facing forward, and a few smaller ones almost hidden below. The only spiders that can reasonably be said to have "clustered" eyes (though not true compound eyes) are the daddy long-legs spiders of the family Pholcidae, but Shelob does not resemble these rather spindly and fragile spiders in other aspects of her physique.
{{references}}

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Shelob|Images of Shelob]]
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]
[[Category:Spirits]]
[[Category:Spiders]]
[[Category:Evil]]

[[de:Kankra]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/animaux/araignees/arachne]]
[[fi:Lukitari]]

Talk:Orcs

2012-10-11T12:50:10Z

Bauglir100:

The following external links no longer work:

The Origin of the Orcs (htm version)
The Origin of the Orcs (doc version)
The Origin of the Orcs (pdf version)

I got: The webpage cannot be found {{unsigned|71.173.181.175}}

:I solved the problem by deleting it :). It was inappropriate anyway, and the whole article needs to be rewritten. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
::Which article? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:25, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Oh this article. Too much work to be done by 1.5 persons (= I am doing 0.4 of your work and the rest 0.1 belongs to occasional contributors) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
::::I won't be doing much either. Just got an angry email that there was a deadline last week. So I got to focus on that first -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 12:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::That's my point... where can we find more contributors? :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:55, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I edited the "Orcs and Goblins" section heavily to remove unfounded comments about "goblins" being a Hobbitish term when it is, in fact, an English word. I also cut down on some unfounded claims in the "Controversy" section. [[User:Eldorion|Eldorion]]

There needs to be a serious section in this article about the culture and ethics of Orcs, and whether Orcs are ultimately free to choose good or evil. I've seen other wikis touch on this issue, but this article barely does. A lot of people (myself included) have never been thrilled about the whole "evil race" concept played completely straight.<br/>
As an entirely personal belief (not something I would expect to put in the article), I think Orcs have the ability to live as good [[Avari]], and that it's the established traditions of Orc culture that inspire evil, and that Elves who do evil and ill-inspired acts (such as [[Fëanor]] and [[Sons of Fëanor|his sons]] along with [[Eöl]] and [[Maeglin]]) essentially make themselves Orcs, and that the difference of appearance between Elves and Orcs ("fair" vs. "ugly") is ultimately meaningless. The [[Silmarils]] knew the difference, and they burned evil and corruption when it touched them. I'm not sure Tolkien would completely disagree, as he once said, "We were all Orcs in the Great War." But I digress... - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 12:12, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

:I just (4/5/2011) summarized Letter 153 (a very long summary) for the Tolkien Gateway, wherein Tolkien dug very deeply into the metaphysics of Middle-earth. On the subject of Orcs, innate Free Will, their "evil race" status, and such, this letter probably gives Tolkien's "clearest" answers. -- Gamling 01:07, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

== Origin ==

I just would like to ask an question in regards to the origin of the orcs. First off I have no preferance either way, be it men or elves, but I would like to raise the point of time. Men awoke at the rising of the sun, so wouldn't this then pose a problem for Melkor when he made the orcs in the first war in Beleriand, for the sake of the elves.? Unless he can time shift and or travel. So then we are left with a rather interesting situation, any thoughts? {{unsigned|GaiusMarius}}

:Sorry, you've lost me? Do you mean that as Melkor created orcs in opposition to elves he had no "opposite" to men? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:09, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

==Etymology and Names==

JRRT notes the Nandorin word for orcs in PE17 (p. 54) '''''ūriƒ'''''. However, I'm uncertain about how to the render the last letter in the word - the original form of the letter is similar, but does not carry the small horizontal line. Is this a letter of its own, or merely a variant rendering of ƒ? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:24, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

:There is the "[[wikipedia:Long s|long s]]" ''ſ'' (and [[wikipedia:Esh (letter)|the similar Esh]] ''ʃ''). Do these seem likely? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:41, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

::Many thanks, Mith! It's the Esh (''ʃ'') - could you please add it to the insert box? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:43, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

:::Added both.--{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:07, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

== Orc - Rohirric or Westron ==

Quote: "This '''spelling''' was taken from Old English. The word seemed, in itself, very suitable to the creatures that I had in mind. But the Old English orc in meaning - so far as that is known - is not suitable. Also the spelling of what, in the later more organized linguistic situation, must have been a '''Common Speech''' form of a word or group of similar words should be ork."

Quote: "Orc. This is supposed to be the '''Common Speech''' name of these creatures at that time; it should therefore according to the system be translated into English, or the language of translation. It was translated 'goblin' in The Hobbit, except in one place; but this word, and other words of similar sense in other European languages (as far as I know), are not really suitable. The orc in The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion, though of course partly made out of traditional features, is not really comparable in supposed origin, functions, and relation to the Elves. In any case orc seemed to me, and seems, in sound a good name for these creatures. It should be '''retained'''."

Orc, or rather, the spelling of Orc is '''FROM''' Old English in reality, and the word itself was Westron in Middle-earth, '''NOT''' Rohirric, so I conclude.

It´s not like the other OE-for-Rohirric words in the LotR. Tolkien just '''retained''' this word from Westron, and where he did translate this 3rd age word, he translated it into Modern English.--[[User:SUM EGO|SUM EGO]] 06:37, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

:I just found the quote for orc being (also?) Rohirric, "Orc is the form of the name that other races had for this foul people as it was in the language of Rohan."
:I undid my previous edit, and I'm sorry for it, but still I think the '''Orcs and Goblins''' section need to be improved.--[[User:SUM EGO|SUM EGO]] 07:25, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

::OK, good.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:01, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Seems like I have to put more source to support my argument.

"Orc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin ... Orc is the hobbits' form of the name given at that time to these creatures, and it is not connected at all with our orc, ork..." --- The Hobbit

Still no one try to rewrite the '''Orcs and Goblins''' section?

== "Gong" redirect link ==
Since the [[Gongs]] have their own article, could it be possible to change the redirect link on [[Gong]] to lead to ''that'' page, instead? [[User:Bauglir100|Bauglir100]] 12:50, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Mika Milovana

2012-10-11T12:45:58Z

Bauglir100: Created page with "I think that we should move this article to "Mika Milovana". It just seems kind of strange to include her title in the name of the article. Does anyone else agree? ~~~~"

I think that we should move this article to "Mika Milovana". It just seems kind of strange to include her title in the name of the article. Does anyone else agree? [[User:Bauglir100|Bauglir100]] 12:45, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Talk:The Hobbit (1967 film)

2012-10-11T12:42:21Z

Bauglir100:

Talk:The Hobbit (1967 film)

2012-10-11T12:38:46Z

Bauglir100:

Fankil

2012-06-06T11:25:33Z

Bauglir100:

{{rewrite}}{{sources}}'''Fankil''' was a servant of [[Morgoth|Melko]], and only appeared in early versions of the [[legendarium]]. He acted as the lieutenant of the Dark Lord, a role that would be taken by [[Sauron]] in the final version of ''[[The Silmarillion]]''.
[[Category:Non-canon]]
[[Category:Servants of Melkor]]

Fankil

2012-06-02T04:16:06Z

Bauglir100:

'''Fankil''' was a servant of [[Morgoth|Melko]], and only appeared in early versions of the [[legendarium]]. He acted as the lieutenant of the Dark Lord, a role that would be taken by [[Sauron]] in the final version of ''[[The Silmarillion]]''.
[[Category:Non-canon]]

Fankil

2012-06-02T04:09:55Z

Bauglir100: Created page with "'''Fankil''' was a servant of Melko, and only appeared in early versions of the legendarium. Category:Non-canon Category:Servants of Morgoth"

'''Fankil''' was a servant of [[Morgoth|Melko]], and only appeared in early versions of the [[legendarium]].
[[Category:Non-canon]]
[[Category:Servants of Morgoth]]

Gongs

2012-06-02T02:27:22Z

Bauglir100: Created page with "'''Gongs''' are evil beings that are obscurely related to Orcs. They appear in early drafts of ''The Silmarillion'', and nowhere else. Category:Non-canon [[Category:..."

'''Gongs''' are evil beings that are obscurely related to [[Orcs]]. They appear in early drafts of ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', and nowhere else.

[[Category:Non-canon]]
[[Category:Other races]]