Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

Talk:Amandil

2007-03-02T17:46:25Z

Beren fox: IMPORTANT! Genealogy Problems

For my Eldar-And-Atani-Familytree I made some genealogy-researches in the last Númenórean generations and stumbled over some Problems:
Known are these things:
- The livingdates of the kings of Númenór
- The fact, that Elendil, Tar-Miriel and Ar-Pharazon are born at about the same time (3017/18/19)
- In UT Numendil is called "Lord of Andunie in the days of Tar-Palantir"
- In UT is said, that in some genealogies Lindórie, Earendurs sister, is Gimilzagars wife - though Chr. Tolkien calls that impossible.

These facts do not fit together without problems. [http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8143/numenorxd9.jpg HERE] I have drawn a genealogy with every date I could get: Name, dates of birth and death, age. Between the lines I put the length of the generation (countet from the birth of the father to the birth of the son). Then I filled the missing dates with average dates (all in red) and tried to get some sense out of it. But there are some problems:

- The average lifespan in the last three generations is about 220 - 230 years. Elendil is extraordinary old: 322. The problem is Amandil: He dissappeared in 3316, his son was born in 3119, due to the average generation-length he must have been born at about 3040. That makes him about 275 years old - about 50 years older than the kings of the last generations. Is there any hint that the Lords of Andúnie have had a longer life than the kings? Or do we have to ignore Elendils birthdate as incompatible?

- Numendil as Lord of Andúnie at Tar-Palantirs reign: With the longer life for the Lords no problem. But when the Lords have just the same lifespan as the kings, Numendil must have died (about 3170) before Palantir became king of Numenor (in 3175/7).

- Inzibêth: She is a generation older than her husband Gimilzor. But that is no real problem.

- Lindórie: This is the bigger problem, for she is two generations younger than her husband Gimilzagar. He must have been about 250 years at the birth of his daughter Inzilbêth. This is of course not impossible, but very extraordinary.

I hope for some wise brains here who will help to get a result without problems out of this. --[[User:Beren_fox|Beren_fox]] 18:46, 2 March 2007 (EST)

Talk:Eärwen

2007-02-08T10:18:05Z

Beren fox:

''In The Silmarillion, the family-tree of Elwë shows the Eärwen was the only child of Olwë. However, '''in the text''' she is said to have '''brothers''', whose names are unknown.'' - Where in the text is that said? I couldn`t find any hint for any brothers of Earwen. Please help me, I need ths information! --[[User:Beren_fox|Beren_fox]] 10:23, 7 February 2007 (EST)

*All right, found it on p. 60 in the Silmarillion. --[[User:Beren_fox|Beren_fox]] 11:18, 8 February 2007 (EST)

Talk:Eärwen

2007-02-07T09:28:43Z

Beren fox:

Talk:Írimë

2007-01-31T17:09:18Z

Beren fox:

''"Irimë may have been the mother of Aranwë, who was in turn the father of Voronwë."''
From what source is this conclusion taken? I need this information for a work about Írime, and I cannot find any information about a link between her and Aranwe. --[[User:Beren_fox|Beren_fox]] 19:55, 30 January 2007 (EST)

:I think it just comes from that [[Voronwë]] was a priveliged elf whose deeds ultimately resulted in the return of [[Fingolfin]]'s remaining descendants. Other propositions for Irimë's descendants are one or more of the chiefs of the [[Twelve Houses of the Gondothlim]], due to their rank. Especially [[Galdor of the Tree]], [[Glorfindel of the Golden Flower]], and [[Ecthelion of the Fountain]], because they were described as the noblest elves of [[Gondolin]] next to [[Turgon (Gondolin)|Turgon]]. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 17:43, 30 January 2007 (EST)

::It's still too speculative for an encyclopedia article. There's no need for it to be there. —[[User:Tar-Telperien|Tar-Telperien]] 20:38, 30 January 2007 (EST)

:::I didn't add it - I was just guessing the reason. Hyarion copied it from the Wikipedia article, and looking at its history this theory came from there. It's still in the Wikipedia article today. This article is almost unchanged since the move: notice especially how it refers to both Irimë and [[Findis]], as the Wikipedia article combines the two. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 20:52, 30 January 2007 (EST)

::::Thanks a lot for the answers! I thought I missed something important :) --[[User:Beren_fox|Beren_fox]] 18:07, 31 January 2007 (EST)

Talk:Írimë

2007-01-30T18:56:12Z

Beren fox:

User talk:80.132.228.127

2006-08-16T20:22:37Z

Beren fox:

I thought I would be nice before and let you add the links but you've pushed your luck. Please find somewhere else to advertise. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 10:01, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

:Advertise? Whats wrong with my link? Its just a familytree {{unsigned|80.132.228.127}}

::I'm sure you had good intentions but you simply can't post the family tree on every single page, it is not relevant enough. However I've added the link to [[Eldar]] and [[Atani]] which are relevant. If the family tree was oriented around a specific character, let's say [[Aragorn II]], and the visitor clicks the link they would have a very hard time even finding Aragorn on the tree, so it is useless for them. Your link is also broken at the moment so please fix that. Otherwise, great work on the tree. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:01, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

:::Ok, maybe you´re right. [[Eldar]] and [[Atani]] are surely the right places - I just don´t think that it is such difficult to find any charakter you like. Surely, for Tolkien-newbies it is useless. But this tree isn´t made for newbies ;) Of course, maybe I should have asked before; I didn´t, because it has never been a problem in other encyclopedias. The link is broken? I can´t see any problems... {{unsigned|80.132.228.127}}

::::Sorry for being so harsh earlier, I hadn't noticed you were even linking back to TG. We tend to get quite a bit of spam and have become extra cautious when we see an anonymous user making hundreds of edits. I do still think a link for every character may be a bit excessive, maybe we can devise a way for the link to somehow scroll to the specific character on the tree. I'll wait for some more member's opinions before adding the links back. Do you have any plans to create more trees? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:53, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

:::::As I said: I should have asked bevore. I linked nearly every name in my familytree back to the TG - it would only make half of its sense without. But of course you couldn´t smell that. Unfortunately I´m no "specialist" and have no idea how to arrange the link to scroll to the specific charakter on the tree. If you know anyone who can help me with that... :) But yes, wait fore som more opinions first. In the meantime I´m going to register (no idea why I didn´t that before...) {{unsigned|80.132.228.127}}

::::::Ok, I registered as [[User:Beren_fox|Beren_fox]] --[[User:Beren_fox|Beren_fox]] 22:30, 15 August 2006