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		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=373090</id>
		<title>Talk:Khamûl</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=373090"/>
		<updated>2023-05-11T16:50:41Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Bsrfrance: /* Epithets of Khamul */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Category for the Nazgûl ==&lt;br /&gt;
There&#039;s not a category for the Nazgûl. Where should we place them? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 14:33, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hm, a category just for [[Nazgûl]] seems like a waste but I suppose its necessary for standardization. Do we call it &#039;&#039;Nazgûl&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;Ringwraiths&#039;&#039; though? Maybe another main category should be made for &#039;&#039;Evil forces&#039;&#039; or something similar. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:18, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== More references ==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sure that there&#039;s more references to Khamûl; I&#039;m struggling to remember where I read about Khamûl helping the Lord of the Nazgul find the ring by going into the Anduin -he is the only Nazgul to go in despite being afraid(I think) of water although the Lord of the Nazgul wasn&#039;t. So, does anyone know what I&#039;m talking about?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:06, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The Hunt for the Ring (in UT)? Or Reader&#039;s Companion? I remember it had some unpublished bits from Hunt ft Ring. B-- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 16:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I know [[Alan Lee]] and [[John Howe]] played two of the 9 kings, did it say if either of them was Khamûl? I dont have my dvds handy.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 15:41, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:John Howe did not have any cameos. It is unknown which of the nine was Khamûl. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:53, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your right, I always heard he did, guess I should have checked his article before saying that.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:01, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Epithets of Khamul ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Khamul is definitely the second Nazgul with the epithet Shadow of the East and Second Chief according to the present passage in Hunt for the Ring Chapter of Unfinished Tales. Also, even though&#039;&#039;&#039; the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&#039;  epithet was included in the rejected version of the present passage (Hunt for the Ring, note 1 said that)Does this mean that the BE epithet was rejected directly or even if it was in the rejected story, it was other epithet?&lt;br /&gt;
Christopher Tolkien has already told us that even JRRT’s rejected (abandoned) notes and tales in UT had a meaning and significance. According to Introduction of UT, Christopher Tolkien said that: “... On the other hand, the nature and scope of his invention seems to me to place even his abandoned stories in a peculiar position.” He pointed out the importance of getting information from each story (abandoned or present). What should we consider? {{unsigned|95.70.132.159}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The statement that he was an Easterling is just a speculation, because J.R.R. Tolkien rejected Black Easterling in a note. As a consequence, the entry should only say that it is &amp;quot;possible&amp;quot; that he was an easterling.I have not checked the references in the article, but I think that J.R.R. Tolkien has not said that he was the commander of Dol Guldur or that he was in Dol Guldur. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 03:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Information about Khamul from the MERP module Gorgoroth and from MERP Lords of Middle-earth - The immortal races could be added to the portrayal in adaptions, because it contains extensive information about Khamul. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 04:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hammond and Scull mailed to me on 22/12/2020 and allowed me to share their ideas.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Khamûl does seem to have been an Easterling, or Man from the East of Middle-earth, whatever that may have meant in Tolkien&#039;s mythology in terms of race, ethnicity, or customs. Tolkien provides only scanty information, calling him in one version of The Hunt for the Ring &#039;the second to the Chief, Khamûl the Shadow of the East&#039;, and in another, rejected version (as you saw), though unnamed, &#039;the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)&#039;. &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;The Black Easterling&#039; of course is only another way of saying &#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, black and shadow referring to a dark evil rather than to, say, skin colour.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Best wishes,&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Besides, Carl F. Hostetter, the editor of Nature of Middle-Earth, wrote the following on this subject and again allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;I see no reason whatsoever to think that Tolkien ever “rejected” the idea that Khamûl was an Easterling — i.e., a man from and/or ruling in the east of Middle-earth. I’m unsure why anyone would think otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Carl&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Mark Fisher, the editor and owner of Encyclopedia of Arda, wrote the following about this subject and allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Regarding the rejected passage, I&#039;m not sure that there&#039;s much we can say (since we&#039;re not told much about it, and certainly not why it was rejected). The reason for rewriting this text might have had nothing to do with Khamûl at all, so I don&#039;t think we can take it for granted that the &#039;Black Easterling&#039; title was definitively rejected by Tolkien. Perhaps he simply preferred &#039;Shadow of the East&#039;. In either case, I&#039;d say the natural presumption would be that he imagined Khamûl as coming from the East. (&#039;&#039;&#039;It would be rather odd to imagine him changing his mind on this point, and then choosing &#039;Shadow of the East&#039; as a title.&#039;&#039;&#039;)&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Speculations by Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull, by Carl F. Hostetter or by Mark Fisher are just speculations. The article already included the possibility that Khamûl was an Easterling, but also pointed out that the Shadow of the East byname may just refer to the fact that Dol Guldur was located in the East (from the geographical point of view of someone in Eriador). Speculations should not be phrased more strongly than a mere possibility (e.g. &amp;quot;It is possible that&amp;quot;). Readers can make up their own mind if they think that the byname in the final version is &amp;quot;compatible&amp;quot; with the byname in the rejected version. A part from correcting one spelling mistake (Khâmul instead of Khamûl) an edit is unnecessary. An epithet is a byname. It is unnecessary to replace the term byname with the term epithet. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 13:37, 7 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::The word Rhûn means &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in Sindarin. We know that &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; epithet is the same with &amp;quot;the Shadow of the Rhûn&amp;quot; according to Sindarin and Tolkien&#039;s language. While expressing the eastern parts of Middle-Earth apart from Rhûn, Tolkien made a designation with a lowercase letter like &amp;quot;from the east, in the east, of the east&amp;quot; instead of the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;. Even for Mordor, the term &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; was not used directly, but the words &amp;quot;east&amp;quot; were used very little in lowercase letters. Because &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is a proper noun in the Tolkien Universe and is equivalent to the word &amp;quot;Rhûn&amp;quot; in Sindarin we know (&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Rhûn: &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, used generally of the lands of the further east of Middle-earth&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; - Unfinished Tales, Index - ). I am stating this situation with some quotations below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... Mordor, which was occupied by Sauron, although outside his original realms &#039;in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 2, The Istari)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039; (of old corrupted by Morgoth)....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)    -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;The Wainriders were a people, or a confederacy of many peoples, that came from &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Return of the King, LoTR Appendix A, Annals of the Kings and Rulers: Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion)      -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;For Sauron had acquired dominion over many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Of the speech of &#039;&#039;&#039;Men of the East&#039;&#039;&#039; and allies of Sauron all that appears is múmak, a name of the great elephant of the Harad.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 1, Ch 2, The Appendix on Languages: Commentary) etc...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::In the rejected version of the present passage about the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in The Hunt for the Ring, Khamûl was given 2 epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;. In the present passage, we see Khamûl with 2 &#039;&#039;&#039;synonymous&#039;&#039;&#039; epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the second to the Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and in the present passage, the number of Ringwraiths in Dol Guldur has been increased and the epithets of Khamûl have been preserved. In both passages it is stated that Khamûl was from (of) the East (Rhûn) and was in the second position among the Ringwraiths. When we compare the epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, as Hammond&amp;amp;Scull said, &amp;quot;black&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;shadow&amp;quot; referring to a dark evil - this is a fact and not speculation. Also, that the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is Rhûn and that the word &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot; is people living in the East or Rhûn is not a speculation but a fact. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::First of all, I would like to state with sources that none of what I have written below is speculation. Dol Guldur is not a place located in the east of Middle-Earth (Nor is it in &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;, Rhûn, anyway). When we look at the Map of the Middle-Earth, the fact that Dol Guldur is located in the Mirkwood and the Mirkwood is also in the east of the Anduin River does not, of course, mean that Dol Guldur is located in the east of Middle-Earth. Dol Guldur was originally known as Amon Lanc in Greenwood. There had been the capital of Oropher&#039;s Silvan Elves. The Elves had not settled in the east of Middle-Earth anyway. The east of Middle-earth is where the Easterlings had lived and settled. According to the Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch I, The Diaster of the Gladden Fields, the location of the Dol Guldur is also clearly stated to be west of the Greenwood, and there is no concept of east of the Middle-Earth we know.: &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Amon Lanc, &#039;Naked Hill&#039;, was the highest point in the highland at &#039;&#039;&#039;the south-west corner of the Greenwood&#039;&#039;&#039;, and was so called because no trees grew on its summit. In later days it was Dol Guldur, the first stronghold of Sauron after his awakening.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; From the &amp;quot;geographical point of view of someone in Eriador&amp;quot; it is not correct to call Mirkwood/ Greenwood/ Dol Guldur in the east of Middle Earth or &amp;quot;the East (Rhûn)&amp;quot;. When locating a location in Middle-earth, the map should be viewed in its entirety, not through the eyes of a person in any particular location. In order not to mislead readers who do not know much about &amp;quot;the East or Rhûn&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot;, I think that at least the &amp;quot;Notes&amp;quot; part of the title should be corrected and detailed explanations should be given if necessary. {{unsigned|Bsrfrance‎}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::An edit is not necessary. What you have written is still speculation (an interpretation of the meaning of words). I recommend that you read the end of the chapter The Istari in Unfinished Tales where J.R.R. Tolkien himself analizes the meaning of &amp;quot;the South&amp;quot; in Gandalf&#039;s statement about his name &amp;quot;Incanús in the South&amp;quot; where he writes that the South could mean Harad and then that it could mean Gondor. There is no further information how J.R.R. Tolkien meant &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in the epithet &amp;quot;Shadow of the East&amp;quot;. As a consequence, it cannot be ruled out that it may have ref to the general area of Dol Guldur where Khamûl spent some time. There is a link to the Dol Guldur page on the Khamûl page and people can look on a map where Dol Guldur is and can make up their own assumption if the East could also refer to Dol Guldur. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 09:07, 10 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::In the Index of Unfinished Tales: “ &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Rhûn: &#039;East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, used generally of the lands of the further east of Middle-earth&#039;&#039; ”. So simple, so clear and zero speculation: Rhûn=East (This is not my words or my interpretation of the meaning of words, is just full of citation from the Index of Unfinished Tales). According to the clear index information about “East=Rhûn” in Unfinished Tales, you state that Dol Guldur is in East (Rhûn), is that acceptable? And I ask us again, is Dol Guldur really in the East (Rhûn)? The discussion is no longer about Khamûl because of you argue that Dol Guldur is in Rhûn. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Considering that the epithet “the Black Easterling” is in the rejected passage and the epithet “the Shadow of the East” is preferred over the epithet “the Black Easterling” in the present passage, you can say that it is &#039;&#039;possible&#039;&#039; that Khamûl was an Easterling. However, apart from these informations, the information in “Notes” section that Dol Guldur is located in the East (Rhûn) is completely wrong, I request this situation to be corrected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: No. Noting will be corrected. The index of Unfinished Tales was written by Christopher Tolkien, not by J.R.R. Tolkien. Any speculation by CT about Rhun does not say anything how his father meant &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Shadow of the East&amp;quot;. It is possible that the East can have other meanings than Rhun just as South cannot only mean Harad, but also Gondor or any region south of the person that is applying the region to somebody else&#039;s origin or place of residence. The epithet the Black Easterling was used for an unnamed Ringwraith. It is speculation that this is the same Ringwraith as Khamul. End of discussion. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 23:24, 10 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::When I had said that: “&#039;&#039;According the Index of Unfinished Tales ‘East=Rhûn’&#039;&#039;”, you said that: “&#039;&#039;The index of Unfinished Tales was written by Christopher Tolkien, not by J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;&#039;.”. I must say that the information in the Index is not an editorial comment. Since the point that “Rhûn=East” came straight from JRRT&#039;s mouth, his son put it in Unfinished Tales. From a telephone interview given by Tolkien in 1966, JRRT said that in the page 41 of 67: “&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Rhûn is the Elvish word for ‘East.&#039;&#039;&#039;’ Asia, China, Japan, and all the things which people in the west regard as far away.&#039;&#039;”(https://efanzines.com/Niekas/Niekas-18.pdf#37). JRRT clearly stated that the all places which those in the west see far are east, and the East is Rhûn. You say the discussion is over, but there is no discussion here. You reject the word that came out of Tolkien&#039;s mouth, and that it was put directly into the book by his son. This is not a discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Your personal speculations and interpretations about the possible location of Rhûn and which source written by J.R.R. Tolkien his son used when he wrote the index entry for Rhûn are irrelevant. What J.R.R. Tolkien wrote or said about Rhûn is also irrelevant, because Khamûl is not called &amp;quot;the Shadow of Rhûn&amp;quot;, he is called &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; and J.R.R. Tolkien did not write what he meant with &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in this particular use of the word in &amp;quot;Shadow of the East&amp;quot;. As a consequence, East can have multiple meanings. Any speculations what East could mean in this particular use in &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; are just speculations and Tolkien Gateway&#039;s objective is not to present extensive descriptions of speculations and is not to only present your personal favourite speculation about the meaning of &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in the epithet &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; or where persons would consider Dol Guldur to be when they would refer to it being in a direction. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 11:25, 11 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::: You say what the &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in the epithet “the Shadow of the East” means is open to interpretation, this is your opinion and we are not saying change it. We requested that you change the information that Dol Guldur is in the “the East (Rhûn)” location, while Tolkien stated that the East is Rhûn. The subject is not a change request related to Khamûl or his epithets. It is simply to state that Dol Guldur is not in Rhûn or in the East which means the same location according to quotation of CRT and JRRT.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::No! There is no statement on the Khamûl page that says &amp;quot;the East (Rhûn)&amp;quot; and there is no &amp;quot;quotation&amp;quot; whatsoever by JRRT or CT that negates the possiblity of someone considering Dol Guldur to be in the East. There is a link to the Dol Guldur page on the Khamûl page and anybody who wants to know more about the location of Dol Guldur can click on the link and read the Dol Guldur page. Apart from that, already on the first page of the section 1 Concerning Hobbits of the Prologue of The Lord of the Rings J.R.R. Tolkien uses &amp;quot;they told of his journey into the East and his return&amp;quot; when wirting about Bilbo&#039;s travel to Mirkwood, Lake-town and the Lonely Mountain, which are not in Rhûn, but as can be seen from this passage in &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; from the point of view of a Hobbit living in the Shire. And again in section 4 Of the Finding of the Ring in the prologue &amp;quot;beneath Erebor in Dale, far off in the East&amp;quot;, or in the chapter A Conspiracy Unmasked &amp;quot;Their land was originally unprotected from the East; but on that side they had built a hedge: the High Hay.&amp;quot; where the Old Forest and non Rhûn is immediately to the east of the Shire and where the High Hay protects against the Old Forest or in the chapter Strider &amp;quot;Against the Shadow in the East,’ said Strider quietly.&amp;quot; or in the chapter The Voice of Saruman &amp;quot;Not unless the dark hands of the East stretch out to take you. Saruman!’&amp;quot; again not talking about Rhûn, but implying the Shadow from Mordor, which is in the East or in the chapter The Muster of Rohan &amp;quot;For we are already at war, as you may have seen, and you do not find us all unprepared. Gandalf the Grey has been among us, and even now we are mustering for battle in the East.’&amp;quot; where the East refers to Gondor, because the speaker is from Rohan and Gondor is in the East from the point of view of Rohan. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 13:59, 11 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::: When we consider both the epithet “the &#039;&#039;&#039;Black&#039;&#039;&#039; &#039;&#039;&#039;Easterling&#039;&#039;&#039;” and the epithet “the &#039;&#039;&#039;Shadow&#039;&#039;&#039; of the &#039;&#039;&#039;East&#039;&#039;&#039;” (&#039;&#039;which is very compatible with the epithet “the Black Easterling”&#039;&#039;) together, it seems that Khamûl is more likely to be an Easterling than not to be an Easterling, isn’t it? (when speculating) My last question, no more to come. Thanks for the discussion.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Bsrfrance</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=373023</id>
		<title>Talk:Khamûl</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=373023"/>
		<updated>2023-05-11T12:50:36Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Bsrfrance: /* Epithets of Khamul */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Category for the Nazgûl ==&lt;br /&gt;
There&#039;s not a category for the Nazgûl. Where should we place them? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 14:33, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hm, a category just for [[Nazgûl]] seems like a waste but I suppose its necessary for standardization. Do we call it &#039;&#039;Nazgûl&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;Ringwraiths&#039;&#039; though? Maybe another main category should be made for &#039;&#039;Evil forces&#039;&#039; or something similar. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:18, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== More references ==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sure that there&#039;s more references to Khamûl; I&#039;m struggling to remember where I read about Khamûl helping the Lord of the Nazgul find the ring by going into the Anduin -he is the only Nazgul to go in despite being afraid(I think) of water although the Lord of the Nazgul wasn&#039;t. So, does anyone know what I&#039;m talking about?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:06, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The Hunt for the Ring (in UT)? Or Reader&#039;s Companion? I remember it had some unpublished bits from Hunt ft Ring. B-- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 16:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I know [[Alan Lee]] and [[John Howe]] played two of the 9 kings, did it say if either of them was Khamûl? I dont have my dvds handy.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 15:41, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:John Howe did not have any cameos. It is unknown which of the nine was Khamûl. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:53, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your right, I always heard he did, guess I should have checked his article before saying that.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:01, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Epithets of Khamul ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Khamul is definitely the second Nazgul with the epithet Shadow of the East and Second Chief according to the present passage in Hunt for the Ring Chapter of Unfinished Tales. Also, even though&#039;&#039;&#039; the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&#039;  epithet was included in the rejected version of the present passage (Hunt for the Ring, note 1 said that)Does this mean that the BE epithet was rejected directly or even if it was in the rejected story, it was other epithet?&lt;br /&gt;
Christopher Tolkien has already told us that even JRRT’s rejected (abandoned) notes and tales in UT had a meaning and significance. According to Introduction of UT, Christopher Tolkien said that: “... On the other hand, the nature and scope of his invention seems to me to place even his abandoned stories in a peculiar position.” He pointed out the importance of getting information from each story (abandoned or present). What should we consider? {{unsigned|95.70.132.159}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The statement that he was an Easterling is just a speculation, because J.R.R. Tolkien rejected Black Easterling in a note. As a consequence, the entry should only say that it is &amp;quot;possible&amp;quot; that he was an easterling.I have not checked the references in the article, but I think that J.R.R. Tolkien has not said that he was the commander of Dol Guldur or that he was in Dol Guldur. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 03:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Information about Khamul from the MERP module Gorgoroth and from MERP Lords of Middle-earth - The immortal races could be added to the portrayal in adaptions, because it contains extensive information about Khamul. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 04:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hammond and Scull mailed to me on 22/12/2020 and allowed me to share their ideas.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Khamûl does seem to have been an Easterling, or Man from the East of Middle-earth, whatever that may have meant in Tolkien&#039;s mythology in terms of race, ethnicity, or customs. Tolkien provides only scanty information, calling him in one version of The Hunt for the Ring &#039;the second to the Chief, Khamûl the Shadow of the East&#039;, and in another, rejected version (as you saw), though unnamed, &#039;the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)&#039;. &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;The Black Easterling&#039; of course is only another way of saying &#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, black and shadow referring to a dark evil rather than to, say, skin colour.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Best wishes,&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Besides, Carl F. Hostetter, the editor of Nature of Middle-Earth, wrote the following on this subject and again allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;I see no reason whatsoever to think that Tolkien ever “rejected” the idea that Khamûl was an Easterling — i.e., a man from and/or ruling in the east of Middle-earth. I’m unsure why anyone would think otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Carl&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Mark Fisher, the editor and owner of Encyclopedia of Arda, wrote the following about this subject and allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Regarding the rejected passage, I&#039;m not sure that there&#039;s much we can say (since we&#039;re not told much about it, and certainly not why it was rejected). The reason for rewriting this text might have had nothing to do with Khamûl at all, so I don&#039;t think we can take it for granted that the &#039;Black Easterling&#039; title was definitively rejected by Tolkien. Perhaps he simply preferred &#039;Shadow of the East&#039;. In either case, I&#039;d say the natural presumption would be that he imagined Khamûl as coming from the East. (&#039;&#039;&#039;It would be rather odd to imagine him changing his mind on this point, and then choosing &#039;Shadow of the East&#039; as a title.&#039;&#039;&#039;)&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Speculations by Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull, by Carl F. Hostetter or by Mark Fisher are just speculations. The article already included the possibility that Khamûl was an Easterling, but also pointed out that the Shadow of the East byname may just refer to the fact that Dol Guldur was located in the East (from the geographical point of view of someone in Eriador). Speculations should not be phrased more strongly than a mere possibility (e.g. &amp;quot;It is possible that&amp;quot;). Readers can make up their own mind if they think that the byname in the final version is &amp;quot;compatible&amp;quot; with the byname in the rejected version. A part from correcting one spelling mistake (Khâmul instead of Khamûl) an edit is unnecessary. An epithet is a byname. It is unnecessary to replace the term byname with the term epithet. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 13:37, 7 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::The word Rhûn means &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in Sindarin. We know that &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; epithet is the same with &amp;quot;the Shadow of the Rhûn&amp;quot; according to Sindarin and Tolkien&#039;s language. While expressing the eastern parts of Middle-Earth apart from Rhûn, Tolkien made a designation with a lowercase letter like &amp;quot;from the east, in the east, of the east&amp;quot; instead of the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;. Even for Mordor, the term &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; was not used directly, but the words &amp;quot;east&amp;quot; were used very little in lowercase letters. Because &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is a proper noun in the Tolkien Universe and is equivalent to the word &amp;quot;Rhûn&amp;quot; in Sindarin we know (&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Rhûn: &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, used generally of the lands of the further east of Middle-earth&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; - Unfinished Tales, Index - ). I am stating this situation with some quotations below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... Mordor, which was occupied by Sauron, although outside his original realms &#039;in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 2, The Istari)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039; (of old corrupted by Morgoth)....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)    -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;The Wainriders were a people, or a confederacy of many peoples, that came from &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Return of the King, LoTR Appendix A, Annals of the Kings and Rulers: Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion)      -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;For Sauron had acquired dominion over many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Of the speech of &#039;&#039;&#039;Men of the East&#039;&#039;&#039; and allies of Sauron all that appears is múmak, a name of the great elephant of the Harad.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 1, Ch 2, The Appendix on Languages: Commentary) etc...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::In the rejected version of the present passage about the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in The Hunt for the Ring, Khamûl was given 2 epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;. In the present passage, we see Khamûl with 2 &#039;&#039;&#039;synonymous&#039;&#039;&#039; epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the second to the Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and in the present passage, the number of Ringwraiths in Dol Guldur has been increased and the epithets of Khamûl have been preserved. In both passages it is stated that Khamûl was from (of) the East (Rhûn) and was in the second position among the Ringwraiths. When we compare the epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, as Hammond&amp;amp;Scull said, &amp;quot;black&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;shadow&amp;quot; referring to a dark evil - this is a fact and not speculation. Also, that the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is Rhûn and that the word &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot; is people living in the East or Rhûn is not a speculation but a fact. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::First of all, I would like to state with sources that none of what I have written below is speculation. Dol Guldur is not a place located in the east of Middle-Earth (Nor is it in &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;, Rhûn, anyway). When we look at the Map of the Middle-Earth, the fact that Dol Guldur is located in the Mirkwood and the Mirkwood is also in the east of the Anduin River does not, of course, mean that Dol Guldur is located in the east of Middle-Earth. Dol Guldur was originally known as Amon Lanc in Greenwood. There had been the capital of Oropher&#039;s Silvan Elves. The Elves had not settled in the east of Middle-Earth anyway. The east of Middle-earth is where the Easterlings had lived and settled. According to the Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch I, The Diaster of the Gladden Fields, the location of the Dol Guldur is also clearly stated to be west of the Greenwood, and there is no concept of east of the Middle-Earth we know.: &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Amon Lanc, &#039;Naked Hill&#039;, was the highest point in the highland at &#039;&#039;&#039;the south-west corner of the Greenwood&#039;&#039;&#039;, and was so called because no trees grew on its summit. In later days it was Dol Guldur, the first stronghold of Sauron after his awakening.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; From the &amp;quot;geographical point of view of someone in Eriador&amp;quot; it is not correct to call Mirkwood/ Greenwood/ Dol Guldur in the east of Middle Earth or &amp;quot;the East (Rhûn)&amp;quot;. When locating a location in Middle-earth, the map should be viewed in its entirety, not through the eyes of a person in any particular location. In order not to mislead readers who do not know much about &amp;quot;the East or Rhûn&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot;, I think that at least the &amp;quot;Notes&amp;quot; part of the title should be corrected and detailed explanations should be given if necessary. {{unsigned|Bsrfrance‎}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::An edit is not necessary. What you have written is still speculation (an interpretation of the meaning of words). I recommend that you read the end of the chapter The Istari in Unfinished Tales where J.R.R. Tolkien himself analizes the meaning of &amp;quot;the South&amp;quot; in Gandalf&#039;s statement about his name &amp;quot;Incanús in the South&amp;quot; where he writes that the South could mean Harad and then that it could mean Gondor. There is no further information how J.R.R. Tolkien meant &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in the epithet &amp;quot;Shadow of the East&amp;quot;. As a consequence, it cannot be ruled out that it may have ref to the general area of Dol Guldur where Khamûl spent some time. There is a link to the Dol Guldur page on the Khamûl page and people can look on a map where Dol Guldur is and can make up their own assumption if the East could also refer to Dol Guldur. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 09:07, 10 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::In the Index of Unfinished Tales: “ &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Rhûn: &#039;East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, used generally of the lands of the further east of Middle-earth&#039;&#039; ”. So simple, so clear and zero speculation: Rhûn=East (This is not my words or my interpretation of the meaning of words, is just full of citation from the Index of Unfinished Tales). According to the clear index information about “East=Rhûn” in Unfinished Tales, you state that Dol Guldur is in East (Rhûn), is that acceptable? And I ask us again, is Dol Guldur really in the East (Rhûn)? The discussion is no longer about Khamûl because of you argue that Dol Guldur is in Rhûn. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Considering that the epithet “the Black Easterling” is in the rejected passage and the epithet “the Shadow of the East” is preferred over the epithet “the Black Easterling” in the present passage, you can say that it is &#039;&#039;possible&#039;&#039; that Khamûl was an Easterling. However, apart from these informations, the information in “Notes” section that Dol Guldur is located in the East (Rhûn) is completely wrong, I request this situation to be corrected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: No. Noting will be corrected. The index of Unfinished Tales was written by Christopher Tolkien, not by J.R.R. Tolkien. Any speculation by CT about Rhun does not say anything how his father meant &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Shadow of the East&amp;quot;. It is possible that the East can have other meanings than Rhun just as South cannot only mean Harad, but also Gondor or any region south of the person that is applying the region to somebody else&#039;s origin or place of residence. The epithet the Black Easterling was used for an unnamed Ringwraith. It is speculation that this is the same Ringwraith as Khamul. End of discussion. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 23:24, 10 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::When I had said that: “&#039;&#039;According the Index of Unfinished Tales ‘East=Rhûn’&#039;&#039;”, you said that: “&#039;&#039;The index of Unfinished Tales was written by Christopher Tolkien, not by J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;&#039;.”. I must say that the information in the Index is not an editorial comment. Since the point that “Rhûn=East” came straight from JRRT&#039;s mouth, his son put it in Unfinished Tales. From a telephone interview given by Tolkien in 1966, JRRT said that in the page 41 of 67: “&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Rhûn is the Elvish word for ‘East.&#039;&#039;&#039;’ Asia, China, Japan, and all the things which people in the west regard as far away.&#039;&#039;”(https://efanzines.com/Niekas/Niekas-18.pdf#37). JRRT clearly stated that the all places which those in the west see far are east, and the East is Rhûn. You say the discussion is over, but there is no discussion here. You reject the word that came out of Tolkien&#039;s mouth, and that it was put directly into the book by his son. This is not a discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Your personal speculations and interpretations about the possible location of Rhûn and which source written by J.R.R. Tolkien his son used when he wrote the index entry for Rhûn are irrelevant. What J.R.R. Tolkien wrote or said about Rhûn is also irrelevant, because Khamûl is not called &amp;quot;the Shadow of Rhûn&amp;quot;, he is called &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; and J.R.R. Tolkien did not write what he meant with &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in this particular use of the word in &amp;quot;Shadow of the East&amp;quot;. As a consequence, East can have multiple meanings. Any speculations what East could mean in this particular use in &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; are just speculations and Tolkien Gateway&#039;s objective is not to present extensive descriptions of speculations and is not to only present your personal favourite speculation about the meaning of &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in the epithet &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; or where persons would consider Dol Guldur to be when they would refer to it being in a direction. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 11:25, 11 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::: You say what the &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in the epithet “the Shadow of the East” means is open to interpretation, this is your opinion and we are not saying change it. We requested that you change the information that Dol Guldur is in the “the East (Rhûn)” location, while Tolkien stated that the East is Rhûn. The subject is not a change request related to Khamûl or his epithets. It is simply to state that Dol Guldur is not in Rhûn or in the East which means the same location according to quotation of CRT and JRRT.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Bsrfrance</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=373012</id>
		<title>Talk:Khamûl</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=373012"/>
		<updated>2023-05-11T07:03:30Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Bsrfrance: /* Epithets of Khamul */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Category for the Nazgûl ==&lt;br /&gt;
There&#039;s not a category for the Nazgûl. Where should we place them? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 14:33, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hm, a category just for [[Nazgûl]] seems like a waste but I suppose its necessary for standardization. Do we call it &#039;&#039;Nazgûl&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;Ringwraiths&#039;&#039; though? Maybe another main category should be made for &#039;&#039;Evil forces&#039;&#039; or something similar. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:18, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== More references ==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sure that there&#039;s more references to Khamûl; I&#039;m struggling to remember where I read about Khamûl helping the Lord of the Nazgul find the ring by going into the Anduin -he is the only Nazgul to go in despite being afraid(I think) of water although the Lord of the Nazgul wasn&#039;t. So, does anyone know what I&#039;m talking about?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:06, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The Hunt for the Ring (in UT)? Or Reader&#039;s Companion? I remember it had some unpublished bits from Hunt ft Ring. B-- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 16:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I know [[Alan Lee]] and [[John Howe]] played two of the 9 kings, did it say if either of them was Khamûl? I dont have my dvds handy.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 15:41, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:John Howe did not have any cameos. It is unknown which of the nine was Khamûl. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:53, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your right, I always heard he did, guess I should have checked his article before saying that.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:01, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Epithets of Khamul ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Khamul is definitely the second Nazgul with the epithet Shadow of the East and Second Chief according to the present passage in Hunt for the Ring Chapter of Unfinished Tales. Also, even though&#039;&#039;&#039; the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&#039;  epithet was included in the rejected version of the present passage (Hunt for the Ring, note 1 said that)Does this mean that the BE epithet was rejected directly or even if it was in the rejected story, it was other epithet?&lt;br /&gt;
Christopher Tolkien has already told us that even JRRT’s rejected (abandoned) notes and tales in UT had a meaning and significance. According to Introduction of UT, Christopher Tolkien said that: “... On the other hand, the nature and scope of his invention seems to me to place even his abandoned stories in a peculiar position.” He pointed out the importance of getting information from each story (abandoned or present). What should we consider? {{unsigned|95.70.132.159}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The statement that he was an Easterling is just a speculation, because J.R.R. Tolkien rejected Black Easterling in a note. As a consequence, the entry should only say that it is &amp;quot;possible&amp;quot; that he was an easterling.I have not checked the references in the article, but I think that J.R.R. Tolkien has not said that he was the commander of Dol Guldur or that he was in Dol Guldur. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 03:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Information about Khamul from the MERP module Gorgoroth and from MERP Lords of Middle-earth - The immortal races could be added to the portrayal in adaptions, because it contains extensive information about Khamul. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 04:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hammond and Scull mailed to me on 22/12/2020 and allowed me to share their ideas.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Khamûl does seem to have been an Easterling, or Man from the East of Middle-earth, whatever that may have meant in Tolkien&#039;s mythology in terms of race, ethnicity, or customs. Tolkien provides only scanty information, calling him in one version of The Hunt for the Ring &#039;the second to the Chief, Khamûl the Shadow of the East&#039;, and in another, rejected version (as you saw), though unnamed, &#039;the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)&#039;. &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;The Black Easterling&#039; of course is only another way of saying &#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, black and shadow referring to a dark evil rather than to, say, skin colour.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Best wishes,&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Besides, Carl F. Hostetter, the editor of Nature of Middle-Earth, wrote the following on this subject and again allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;I see no reason whatsoever to think that Tolkien ever “rejected” the idea that Khamûl was an Easterling — i.e., a man from and/or ruling in the east of Middle-earth. I’m unsure why anyone would think otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Carl&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Mark Fisher, the editor and owner of Encyclopedia of Arda, wrote the following about this subject and allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Regarding the rejected passage, I&#039;m not sure that there&#039;s much we can say (since we&#039;re not told much about it, and certainly not why it was rejected). The reason for rewriting this text might have had nothing to do with Khamûl at all, so I don&#039;t think we can take it for granted that the &#039;Black Easterling&#039; title was definitively rejected by Tolkien. Perhaps he simply preferred &#039;Shadow of the East&#039;. In either case, I&#039;d say the natural presumption would be that he imagined Khamûl as coming from the East. (&#039;&#039;&#039;It would be rather odd to imagine him changing his mind on this point, and then choosing &#039;Shadow of the East&#039; as a title.&#039;&#039;&#039;)&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Speculations by Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull, by Carl F. Hostetter or by Mark Fisher are just speculations. The article already included the possibility that Khamûl was an Easterling, but also pointed out that the Shadow of the East byname may just refer to the fact that Dol Guldur was located in the East (from the geographical point of view of someone in Eriador). Speculations should not be phrased more strongly than a mere possibility (e.g. &amp;quot;It is possible that&amp;quot;). Readers can make up their own mind if they think that the byname in the final version is &amp;quot;compatible&amp;quot; with the byname in the rejected version. A part from correcting one spelling mistake (Khâmul instead of Khamûl) an edit is unnecessary. An epithet is a byname. It is unnecessary to replace the term byname with the term epithet. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 13:37, 7 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::The word Rhûn means &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in Sindarin. We know that &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; epithet is the same with &amp;quot;the Shadow of the Rhûn&amp;quot; according to Sindarin and Tolkien&#039;s language. While expressing the eastern parts of Middle-Earth apart from Rhûn, Tolkien made a designation with a lowercase letter like &amp;quot;from the east, in the east, of the east&amp;quot; instead of the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;. Even for Mordor, the term &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; was not used directly, but the words &amp;quot;east&amp;quot; were used very little in lowercase letters. Because &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is a proper noun in the Tolkien Universe and is equivalent to the word &amp;quot;Rhûn&amp;quot; in Sindarin we know (&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Rhûn: &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, used generally of the lands of the further east of Middle-earth&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; - Unfinished Tales, Index - ). I am stating this situation with some quotations below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... Mordor, which was occupied by Sauron, although outside his original realms &#039;in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 2, The Istari)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039; (of old corrupted by Morgoth)....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)    -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;The Wainriders were a people, or a confederacy of many peoples, that came from &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Return of the King, LoTR Appendix A, Annals of the Kings and Rulers: Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion)      -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;For Sauron had acquired dominion over many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Of the speech of &#039;&#039;&#039;Men of the East&#039;&#039;&#039; and allies of Sauron all that appears is múmak, a name of the great elephant of the Harad.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 1, Ch 2, The Appendix on Languages: Commentary) etc...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::In the rejected version of the present passage about the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in The Hunt for the Ring, Khamûl was given 2 epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;. In the present passage, we see Khamûl with 2 &#039;&#039;&#039;synonymous&#039;&#039;&#039; epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the second to the Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and in the present passage, the number of Ringwraiths in Dol Guldur has been increased and the epithets of Khamûl have been preserved. In both passages it is stated that Khamûl was from (of) the East (Rhûn) and was in the second position among the Ringwraiths. When we compare the epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, as Hammond&amp;amp;Scull said, &amp;quot;black&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;shadow&amp;quot; referring to a dark evil - this is a fact and not speculation. Also, that the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is Rhûn and that the word &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot; is people living in the East or Rhûn is not a speculation but a fact. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::First of all, I would like to state with sources that none of what I have written below is speculation. Dol Guldur is not a place located in the east of Middle-Earth (Nor is it in &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;, Rhûn, anyway). When we look at the Map of the Middle-Earth, the fact that Dol Guldur is located in the Mirkwood and the Mirkwood is also in the east of the Anduin River does not, of course, mean that Dol Guldur is located in the east of Middle-Earth. Dol Guldur was originally known as Amon Lanc in Greenwood. There had been the capital of Oropher&#039;s Silvan Elves. The Elves had not settled in the east of Middle-Earth anyway. The east of Middle-earth is where the Easterlings had lived and settled. According to the Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch I, The Diaster of the Gladden Fields, the location of the Dol Guldur is also clearly stated to be west of the Greenwood, and there is no concept of east of the Middle-Earth we know.: &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Amon Lanc, &#039;Naked Hill&#039;, was the highest point in the highland at &#039;&#039;&#039;the south-west corner of the Greenwood&#039;&#039;&#039;, and was so called because no trees grew on its summit. In later days it was Dol Guldur, the first stronghold of Sauron after his awakening.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; From the &amp;quot;geographical point of view of someone in Eriador&amp;quot; it is not correct to call Mirkwood/ Greenwood/ Dol Guldur in the east of Middle Earth or &amp;quot;the East (Rhûn)&amp;quot;. When locating a location in Middle-earth, the map should be viewed in its entirety, not through the eyes of a person in any particular location. In order not to mislead readers who do not know much about &amp;quot;the East or Rhûn&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot;, I think that at least the &amp;quot;Notes&amp;quot; part of the title should be corrected and detailed explanations should be given if necessary. {{unsigned|Bsrfrance‎}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::An edit is not necessary. What you have written is still speculation (an interpretation of the meaning of words). I recommend that you read the end of the chapter The Istari in Unfinished Tales where J.R.R. Tolkien himself analizes the meaning of &amp;quot;the South&amp;quot; in Gandalf&#039;s statement about his name &amp;quot;Incanús in the South&amp;quot; where he writes that the South could mean Harad and then that it could mean Gondor. There is no further information how J.R.R. Tolkien meant &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in the epithet &amp;quot;Shadow of the East&amp;quot;. As a consequence, it cannot be ruled out that it may have ref to the general area of Dol Guldur where Khamûl spent some time. There is a link to the Dol Guldur page on the Khamûl page and people can look on a map where Dol Guldur is and can make up their own assumption if the East could also refer to Dol Guldur. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 09:07, 10 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::In the Index of Unfinished Tales: “ &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Rhûn: &#039;East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, used generally of the lands of the further east of Middle-earth&#039;&#039; ”. So simple, so clear and zero speculation: Rhûn=East (This is not my words or my interpretation of the meaning of words, is just full of citation from the Index of Unfinished Tales). According to the clear index information about “East=Rhûn” in Unfinished Tales, you state that Dol Guldur is in East (Rhûn), is that acceptable? And I ask us again, is Dol Guldur really in the East (Rhûn)? The discussion is no longer about Khamûl because of you argue that Dol Guldur is in Rhûn. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Considering that the epithet “the Black Easterling” is in the rejected passage and the epithet “the Shadow of the East” is preferred over the epithet “the Black Easterling” in the present passage, you can say that it is &#039;&#039;possible&#039;&#039; that Khamûl was an Easterling. However, apart from these informations, the information in “Notes” section that Dol Guldur is located in the East (Rhûn) is completely wrong, I request this situation to be corrected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: No. Noting will be corrected. The index of Unfinished Tales was written by Christopher Tolkien, not by J.R.R. Tolkien. Any speculation by CT about Rhun does not say anything how his father meant &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Shadow of the East&amp;quot;. It is possible that the East can have other meanings than Rhun just as South cannot only mean Harad, but also Gondor or any region south of the person that is applying the region to somebody else&#039;s origin or place of residence. The epithet the Black Easterling was used for an unnamed Ringwraith. It is speculation that this is the same Ringwraith as Khamul. End of discussion. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 23:24, 10 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::When I had said that: “&#039;&#039;According the Index of Unfinished Tales ‘East=Rhûn’&#039;&#039;”, you said that: “&#039;&#039;The index of Unfinished Tales was written by Christopher Tolkien, not by J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;&#039;.”. I must say that the information in the Index is not an editorial comment. Since the point that “Rhûn=East” came straight from JRRT&#039;s mouth, his son put it in Unfinished Tales. From a telephone interview given by Tolkien in 1966, JRRT said that in the page 41 of 67: “&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Rhûn is the Elvish word for ‘East.&#039;&#039;&#039;’ Asia, China, Japan, and all the things which people in the west regard as far away.&#039;&#039;”(https://efanzines.com/Niekas/Niekas-18.pdf#37). JRRT clearly stated that the all places which those in the west see far are east, and the East is Rhûn. You say the discussion is over, but there is no discussion here. You reject the word that came out of Tolkien&#039;s mouth, and that it was put directly into the book by his son. This is not a discussion.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Bsrfrance</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=373009</id>
		<title>Talk:Khamûl</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=373009"/>
		<updated>2023-05-10T23:06:08Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Bsrfrance: /* Epithets of Khamul */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Category for the Nazgûl ==&lt;br /&gt;
There&#039;s not a category for the Nazgûl. Where should we place them? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 14:33, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hm, a category just for [[Nazgûl]] seems like a waste but I suppose its necessary for standardization. Do we call it &#039;&#039;Nazgûl&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;Ringwraiths&#039;&#039; though? Maybe another main category should be made for &#039;&#039;Evil forces&#039;&#039; or something similar. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:18, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== More references ==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sure that there&#039;s more references to Khamûl; I&#039;m struggling to remember where I read about Khamûl helping the Lord of the Nazgul find the ring by going into the Anduin -he is the only Nazgul to go in despite being afraid(I think) of water although the Lord of the Nazgul wasn&#039;t. So, does anyone know what I&#039;m talking about?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:06, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The Hunt for the Ring (in UT)? Or Reader&#039;s Companion? I remember it had some unpublished bits from Hunt ft Ring. B-- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 16:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I know [[Alan Lee]] and [[John Howe]] played two of the 9 kings, did it say if either of them was Khamûl? I dont have my dvds handy.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 15:41, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:John Howe did not have any cameos. It is unknown which of the nine was Khamûl. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:53, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your right, I always heard he did, guess I should have checked his article before saying that.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:01, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Epithets of Khamul ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Khamul is definitely the second Nazgul with the epithet Shadow of the East and Second Chief according to the present passage in Hunt for the Ring Chapter of Unfinished Tales. Also, even though&#039;&#039;&#039; the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&#039;  epithet was included in the rejected version of the present passage (Hunt for the Ring, note 1 said that)Does this mean that the BE epithet was rejected directly or even if it was in the rejected story, it was other epithet?&lt;br /&gt;
Christopher Tolkien has already told us that even JRRT’s rejected (abandoned) notes and tales in UT had a meaning and significance. According to Introduction of UT, Christopher Tolkien said that: “... On the other hand, the nature and scope of his invention seems to me to place even his abandoned stories in a peculiar position.” He pointed out the importance of getting information from each story (abandoned or present). What should we consider? {{unsigned|95.70.132.159}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The statement that he was an Easterling is just a speculation, because J.R.R. Tolkien rejected Black Easterling in a note. As a consequence, the entry should only say that it is &amp;quot;possible&amp;quot; that he was an easterling.I have not checked the references in the article, but I think that J.R.R. Tolkien has not said that he was the commander of Dol Guldur or that he was in Dol Guldur. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 03:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Information about Khamul from the MERP module Gorgoroth and from MERP Lords of Middle-earth - The immortal races could be added to the portrayal in adaptions, because it contains extensive information about Khamul. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 04:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hammond and Scull mailed to me on 22/12/2020 and allowed me to share their ideas.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Khamûl does seem to have been an Easterling, or Man from the East of Middle-earth, whatever that may have meant in Tolkien&#039;s mythology in terms of race, ethnicity, or customs. Tolkien provides only scanty information, calling him in one version of The Hunt for the Ring &#039;the second to the Chief, Khamûl the Shadow of the East&#039;, and in another, rejected version (as you saw), though unnamed, &#039;the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)&#039;. &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;The Black Easterling&#039; of course is only another way of saying &#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, black and shadow referring to a dark evil rather than to, say, skin colour.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Best wishes,&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Besides, Carl F. Hostetter, the editor of Nature of Middle-Earth, wrote the following on this subject and again allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;I see no reason whatsoever to think that Tolkien ever “rejected” the idea that Khamûl was an Easterling — i.e., a man from and/or ruling in the east of Middle-earth. I’m unsure why anyone would think otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Carl&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Mark Fisher, the editor and owner of Encyclopedia of Arda, wrote the following about this subject and allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Regarding the rejected passage, I&#039;m not sure that there&#039;s much we can say (since we&#039;re not told much about it, and certainly not why it was rejected). The reason for rewriting this text might have had nothing to do with Khamûl at all, so I don&#039;t think we can take it for granted that the &#039;Black Easterling&#039; title was definitively rejected by Tolkien. Perhaps he simply preferred &#039;Shadow of the East&#039;. In either case, I&#039;d say the natural presumption would be that he imagined Khamûl as coming from the East. (&#039;&#039;&#039;It would be rather odd to imagine him changing his mind on this point, and then choosing &#039;Shadow of the East&#039; as a title.&#039;&#039;&#039;)&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Speculations by Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull, by Carl F. Hostetter or by Mark Fisher are just speculations. The article already included the possibility that Khamûl was an Easterling, but also pointed out that the Shadow of the East byname may just refer to the fact that Dol Guldur was located in the East (from the geographical point of view of someone in Eriador). Speculations should not be phrased more strongly than a mere possibility (e.g. &amp;quot;It is possible that&amp;quot;). Readers can make up their own mind if they think that the byname in the final version is &amp;quot;compatible&amp;quot; with the byname in the rejected version. A part from correcting one spelling mistake (Khâmul instead of Khamûl) an edit is unnecessary. An epithet is a byname. It is unnecessary to replace the term byname with the term epithet. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 13:37, 7 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::The word Rhûn means &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in Sindarin. We know that &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; epithet is the same with &amp;quot;the Shadow of the Rhûn&amp;quot; according to Sindarin and Tolkien&#039;s language. While expressing the eastern parts of Middle-Earth apart from Rhûn, Tolkien made a designation with a lowercase letter like &amp;quot;from the east, in the east, of the east&amp;quot; instead of the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;. Even for Mordor, the term &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; was not used directly, but the words &amp;quot;east&amp;quot; were used very little in lowercase letters. Because &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is a proper noun in the Tolkien Universe and is equivalent to the word &amp;quot;Rhûn&amp;quot; in Sindarin we know (&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Rhûn: &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, used generally of the lands of the further east of Middle-earth&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; - Unfinished Tales, Index - ). I am stating this situation with some quotations below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... Mordor, which was occupied by Sauron, although outside his original realms &#039;in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 2, The Istari)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039; (of old corrupted by Morgoth)....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)    -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;The Wainriders were a people, or a confederacy of many peoples, that came from &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Return of the King, LoTR Appendix A, Annals of the Kings and Rulers: Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion)      -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;For Sauron had acquired dominion over many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Of the speech of &#039;&#039;&#039;Men of the East&#039;&#039;&#039; and allies of Sauron all that appears is múmak, a name of the great elephant of the Harad.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 1, Ch 2, The Appendix on Languages: Commentary) etc...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::In the rejected version of the present passage about the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in The Hunt for the Ring, Khamûl was given 2 epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;. In the present passage, we see Khamûl with 2 &#039;&#039;&#039;synonymous&#039;&#039;&#039; epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the second to the Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and in the present passage, the number of Ringwraiths in Dol Guldur has been increased and the epithets of Khamûl have been preserved. In both passages it is stated that Khamûl was from (of) the East (Rhûn) and was in the second position among the Ringwraiths. When we compare the epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, as Hammond&amp;amp;Scull said, &amp;quot;black&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;shadow&amp;quot; referring to a dark evil - this is a fact and not speculation. Also, that the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is Rhûn and that the word &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot; is people living in the East or Rhûn is not a speculation but a fact. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::First of all, I would like to state with sources that none of what I have written below is speculation. Dol Guldur is not a place located in the east of Middle-Earth (Nor is it in &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;, Rhûn, anyway). When we look at the Map of the Middle-Earth, the fact that Dol Guldur is located in the Mirkwood and the Mirkwood is also in the east of the Anduin River does not, of course, mean that Dol Guldur is located in the east of Middle-Earth. Dol Guldur was originally known as Amon Lanc in Greenwood. There had been the capital of Oropher&#039;s Silvan Elves. The Elves had not settled in the east of Middle-Earth anyway. The east of Middle-earth is where the Easterlings had lived and settled. According to the Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch I, The Diaster of the Gladden Fields, the location of the Dol Guldur is also clearly stated to be west of the Greenwood, and there is no concept of east of the Middle-Earth we know.: &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Amon Lanc, &#039;Naked Hill&#039;, was the highest point in the highland at &#039;&#039;&#039;the south-west corner of the Greenwood&#039;&#039;&#039;, and was so called because no trees grew on its summit. In later days it was Dol Guldur, the first stronghold of Sauron after his awakening.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; From the &amp;quot;geographical point of view of someone in Eriador&amp;quot; it is not correct to call Mirkwood/ Greenwood/ Dol Guldur in the east of Middle Earth or &amp;quot;the East (Rhûn)&amp;quot;. When locating a location in Middle-earth, the map should be viewed in its entirety, not through the eyes of a person in any particular location. In order not to mislead readers who do not know much about &amp;quot;the East or Rhûn&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot;, I think that at least the &amp;quot;Notes&amp;quot; part of the title should be corrected and detailed explanations should be given if necessary. {{unsigned|Bsrfrance‎}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::An edit is not necessary. What you have written is still speculation (an interpretation of the meaning of words). I recommend that you read the end of the chapter The Istari in Unfinished Tales where J.R.R. Tolkien himself analizes the meaning of &amp;quot;the South&amp;quot; in Gandalf&#039;s statement about his name &amp;quot;Incanús in the South&amp;quot; where he writes that the South could mean Harad and then that it could mean Gondor. There is no further information how J.R.R. Tolkien meant &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in the epithet &amp;quot;Shadow of the East&amp;quot;. As a consequence, it cannot be ruled out that it may have ref to the general area of Dol Guldur where Khamûl spent some time. There is a link to the Dol Guldur page on the Khamûl page and people can look on a map where Dol Guldur is and can make up their own assumption if the East could also refer to Dol Guldur. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 09:07, 10 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::In the Index of Unfinished Tales: “ &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Rhûn: &#039;East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, used generally of the lands of the further east of Middle-earth&#039;&#039; ”. So simple, so clear and zero speculation: Rhûn=East (This is not my words or my interpretation of the meaning of words, is just full of citation from the Index of Unfinished Tales). According to the clear index information about “East=Rhûn” in Unfinished Tales, you state that Dol Guldur is in East (Rhûn), is that acceptable? And I ask us again, is Dol Guldur really in the East (Rhûn)? The discussion is no longer about Khamûl because of you argue that Dol Guldur is in Rhûn. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Considering that the epithet “the Black Easterling” is in the rejected passage and the epithet “the Shadow of the East” is preferred over the epithet “the Black Easterling” in the present passage, you can say that it is &#039;&#039;possible&#039;&#039; that Khamûl was an Easterling. However, apart from these informations, the information in “Notes” section that Dol Guldur is located in the East (Rhûn) is completely wrong, I request this situation to be corrected.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Bsrfrance</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372937</id>
		<title>Talk:Khamûl</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372937"/>
		<updated>2023-05-09T15:08:03Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Bsrfrance: /* Epithets of Khamul */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Category for the Nazgûl ==&lt;br /&gt;
There&#039;s not a category for the Nazgûl. Where should we place them? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 14:33, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hm, a category just for [[Nazgûl]] seems like a waste but I suppose its necessary for standardization. Do we call it &#039;&#039;Nazgûl&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;Ringwraiths&#039;&#039; though? Maybe another main category should be made for &#039;&#039;Evil forces&#039;&#039; or something similar. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:18, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== More references ==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sure that there&#039;s more references to Khamûl; I&#039;m struggling to remember where I read about Khamûl helping the Lord of the Nazgul find the ring by going into the Anduin -he is the only Nazgul to go in despite being afraid(I think) of water although the Lord of the Nazgul wasn&#039;t. So, does anyone know what I&#039;m talking about?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:06, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The Hunt for the Ring (in UT)? Or Reader&#039;s Companion? I remember it had some unpublished bits from Hunt ft Ring. B-- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 16:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I know [[Alan Lee]] and [[John Howe]] played two of the 9 kings, did it say if either of them was Khamûl? I dont have my dvds handy.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 15:41, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:John Howe did not have any cameos. It is unknown which of the nine was Khamûl. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:53, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your right, I always heard he did, guess I should have checked his article before saying that.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:01, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Epithets of Khamul ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Khamul is definitely the second Nazgul with the epithet Shadow of the East and Second Chief according to the present passage in Hunt for the Ring Chapter of Unfinished Tales. Also, even though&#039;&#039;&#039; the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&#039;  epithet was included in the rejected version of the present passage (Hunt for the Ring, note 1 said that)Does this mean that the BE epithet was rejected directly or even if it was in the rejected story, it was other epithet?&lt;br /&gt;
Christopher Tolkien has already told us that even JRRT’s rejected (abandoned) notes and tales in UT had a meaning and significance. According to Introduction of UT, Christopher Tolkien said that: “... On the other hand, the nature and scope of his invention seems to me to place even his abandoned stories in a peculiar position.” He pointed out the importance of getting information from each story (abandoned or present). What should we consider? {{unsigned|95.70.132.159}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The statement that he was an Easterling is just a speculation, because J.R.R. Tolkien rejected Black Easterling in a note. As a consequence, the entry should only say that it is &amp;quot;possible&amp;quot; that he was an easterling.I have not checked the references in the article, but I think that J.R.R. Tolkien has not said that he was the commander of Dol Guldur or that he was in Dol Guldur. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 03:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Information about Khamul from the MERP module Gorgoroth and from MERP Lords of Middle-earth - The immortal races could be added to the portrayal in adaptions, because it contains extensive information about Khamul. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 04:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hammond and Scull mailed to me on 22/12/2020 and allowed me to share their ideas.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Khamûl does seem to have been an Easterling, or Man from the East of Middle-earth, whatever that may have meant in Tolkien&#039;s mythology in terms of race, ethnicity, or customs. Tolkien provides only scanty information, calling him in one version of The Hunt for the Ring &#039;the second to the Chief, Khamûl the Shadow of the East&#039;, and in another, rejected version (as you saw), though unnamed, &#039;the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)&#039;. &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;The Black Easterling&#039; of course is only another way of saying &#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, black and shadow referring to a dark evil rather than to, say, skin colour.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Best wishes,&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Besides, Carl F. Hostetter, the editor of Nature of Middle-Earth, wrote the following on this subject and again allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;I see no reason whatsoever to think that Tolkien ever “rejected” the idea that Khamûl was an Easterling — i.e., a man from and/or ruling in the east of Middle-earth. I’m unsure why anyone would think otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Carl&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Mark Fisher, the editor and owner of Encyclopedia of Arda, wrote the following about this subject and allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Regarding the rejected passage, I&#039;m not sure that there&#039;s much we can say (since we&#039;re not told much about it, and certainly not why it was rejected). The reason for rewriting this text might have had nothing to do with Khamûl at all, so I don&#039;t think we can take it for granted that the &#039;Black Easterling&#039; title was definitively rejected by Tolkien. Perhaps he simply preferred &#039;Shadow of the East&#039;. In either case, I&#039;d say the natural presumption would be that he imagined Khamûl as coming from the East. (&#039;&#039;&#039;It would be rather odd to imagine him changing his mind on this point, and then choosing &#039;Shadow of the East&#039; as a title.&#039;&#039;&#039;)&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Speculations by Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull, by Carl F. Hostetter or by Mark Fisher are just speculations. The article already included the possibility that Khamûl was an Easterling, but also pointed out that the Shadow of the East byname may just refer to the fact that Dol Guldur was located in the East (from the geographical point of view of someone in Eriador). Speculations should not be phrased more strongly than a mere possibility (e.g. &amp;quot;It is possible that&amp;quot;). Readers can make up their own mind if they think that the byname in the final version is &amp;quot;compatible&amp;quot; with the byname in the rejected version. A part from correcting one spelling mistake (Khâmul instead of Khamûl) an edit is unnecessary. An epithet is a byname. It is unnecessary to replace the term byname with the term epithet. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 13:37, 7 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::The word Rhûn means &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in Sindarin. We know that &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; epithet is the same with &amp;quot;the Shadow of the Rhûn&amp;quot; according to Sindarin and Tolkien&#039;s language. While expressing the eastern parts of Middle-Earth apart from Rhûn, Tolkien made a designation with a lowercase letter like &amp;quot;from the east, in the east, of the east&amp;quot; instead of the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;. Even for Mordor, the term &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; was not used directly, but the words &amp;quot;east&amp;quot; were used very little in lowercase letters. Because &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is a proper noun in the Tolkien Universe and is equivalent to the word &amp;quot;Rhûn&amp;quot; in Sindarin we know (&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Rhûn: &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, used generally of the lands of the further east of Middle-earth&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; - Unfinished Tales, Index - ). I am stating this situation with some quotations below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... Mordor, which was occupied by Sauron, although outside his original realms &#039;in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 2, The Istari)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039; (of old corrupted by Morgoth)....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)    -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;The Wainriders were a people, or a confederacy of many peoples, that came from &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Return of the King, LoTR Appendix A, Annals of the Kings and Rulers: Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion)      -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;For Sauron had acquired dominion over many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Of the speech of &#039;&#039;&#039;Men of the East&#039;&#039;&#039; and allies of Sauron all that appears is múmak, a name of the great elephant of the Harad.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 1, Ch 2, The Appendix on Languages: Commentary) etc...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::In the rejected version of the present passage about the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in The Hunt for the Ring, Khamûl was given 2 epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;. In the present passage, we see Khamûl with 2 &#039;&#039;&#039;synonymous&#039;&#039;&#039; epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the second to the Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and in the present passage, the number of Ringwraiths in Dol Guldur has been increased and the epithets of Khamûl have been preserved. In both passages it is stated that Khamûl was from (of) the East (Rhûn) and was in the second position among the Ringwraiths. When we compare the epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, as Hammond&amp;amp;Scull said, &amp;quot;black&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;shadow&amp;quot; referring to a dark evil - this is a fact and not speculation. Also, that the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is Rhûn and that the word &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot; is people living in the East or Rhûn is not a speculation but a fact. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::First of all, I would like to state with sources that none of what I have written below is speculation. Dol Guldur is not a place located in the east of Middle-Earth (Nor is it in &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;, Rhûn, anyway). When we look at the Map of the Middle-Earth, the fact that Dol Guldur is located in the Mirkwood and the Mirkwood is also in the east of the Anduin River does not, of course, mean that Dol Guldur is located in the east of Middle-Earth. Dol Guldur was originally known as Amon Lanc in Greenwood. There had been the capital of Oropher&#039;s Silvan Elves. The Elves had not settled in the east of Middle-Earth anyway. The east of Middle-earth is where the Easterlings had lived and settled. According to the Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch I, The Diaster of the Gladden Fields, the location of the Dol Guldur is also clearly stated to be west of the Greenwood, and there is no concept of east of the Middle-Earth we know.: &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Amon Lanc, &#039;Naked Hill&#039;, was the highest point in the highland at &#039;&#039;&#039;the south-west corner of the Greenwood&#039;&#039;&#039;, and was so called because no trees grew on its summit. In later days it was Dol Guldur, the first stronghold of Sauron after his awakening.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; From the &amp;quot;geographical point of view of someone in Eriador&amp;quot; it is not correct to call Mirkwood/ Greenwood/ Dol Guldur in the east of Middle Earth or &amp;quot;the East (Rhûn)&amp;quot;. When locating a location in Middle-earth, the map should be viewed in its entirety, not through the eyes of a person in any particular location. In order not to mislead readers who do not know much about &amp;quot;the East or Rhûn&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot;, I think that at least the &amp;quot;Notes&amp;quot; part of the title should be corrected and detailed explanations should be given if necessary.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Bsrfrance</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372936</id>
		<title>Talk:Khamûl</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372936"/>
		<updated>2023-05-09T15:06:24Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Bsrfrance: /* Epithets of Khamul */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Category for the Nazgûl ==&lt;br /&gt;
There&#039;s not a category for the Nazgûl. Where should we place them? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 14:33, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hm, a category just for [[Nazgûl]] seems like a waste but I suppose its necessary for standardization. Do we call it &#039;&#039;Nazgûl&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;Ringwraiths&#039;&#039; though? Maybe another main category should be made for &#039;&#039;Evil forces&#039;&#039; or something similar. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:18, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== More references ==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sure that there&#039;s more references to Khamûl; I&#039;m struggling to remember where I read about Khamûl helping the Lord of the Nazgul find the ring by going into the Anduin -he is the only Nazgul to go in despite being afraid(I think) of water although the Lord of the Nazgul wasn&#039;t. So, does anyone know what I&#039;m talking about?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:06, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The Hunt for the Ring (in UT)? Or Reader&#039;s Companion? I remember it had some unpublished bits from Hunt ft Ring. B-- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 16:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I know [[Alan Lee]] and [[John Howe]] played two of the 9 kings, did it say if either of them was Khamûl? I dont have my dvds handy.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 15:41, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:John Howe did not have any cameos. It is unknown which of the nine was Khamûl. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:53, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your right, I always heard he did, guess I should have checked his article before saying that.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:01, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Epithets of Khamul ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Khamul is definitely the second Nazgul with the epithet Shadow of the East and Second Chief according to the present passage in Hunt for the Ring Chapter of Unfinished Tales. Also, even though&#039;&#039;&#039; the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&#039;  epithet was included in the rejected version of the present passage (Hunt for the Ring, note 1 said that)Does this mean that the BE epithet was rejected directly or even if it was in the rejected story, it was other epithet?&lt;br /&gt;
Christopher Tolkien has already told us that even JRRT’s rejected (abandoned) notes and tales in UT had a meaning and significance. According to Introduction of UT, Christopher Tolkien said that: “... On the other hand, the nature and scope of his invention seems to me to place even his abandoned stories in a peculiar position.” He pointed out the importance of getting information from each story (abandoned or present). What should we consider? {{unsigned|95.70.132.159}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The statement that he was an Easterling is just a speculation, because J.R.R. Tolkien rejected Black Easterling in a note. As a consequence, the entry should only say that it is &amp;quot;possible&amp;quot; that he was an easterling.I have not checked the references in the article, but I think that J.R.R. Tolkien has not said that he was the commander of Dol Guldur or that he was in Dol Guldur. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 03:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Information about Khamul from the MERP module Gorgoroth and from MERP Lords of Middle-earth - The immortal races could be added to the portrayal in adaptions, because it contains extensive information about Khamul. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 04:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hammond and Scull mailed to me on 22/12/2020 and allowed me to share their ideas.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Khamûl does seem to have been an Easterling, or Man from the East of Middle-earth, whatever that may have meant in Tolkien&#039;s mythology in terms of race, ethnicity, or customs. Tolkien provides only scanty information, calling him in one version of The Hunt for the Ring &#039;the second to the Chief, Khamûl the Shadow of the East&#039;, and in another, rejected version (as you saw), though unnamed, &#039;the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)&#039;. &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;The Black Easterling&#039; of course is only another way of saying &#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, black and shadow referring to a dark evil rather than to, say, skin colour.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Best wishes,&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Besides, Carl F. Hostetter, the editor of Nature of Middle-Earth, wrote the following on this subject and again allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;I see no reason whatsoever to think that Tolkien ever “rejected” the idea that Khamûl was an Easterling — i.e., a man from and/or ruling in the east of Middle-earth. I’m unsure why anyone would think otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Carl&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Mark Fisher, the editor and owner of Encyclopedia of Arda, wrote the following about this subject and allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Regarding the rejected passage, I&#039;m not sure that there&#039;s much we can say (since we&#039;re not told much about it, and certainly not why it was rejected). The reason for rewriting this text might have had nothing to do with Khamûl at all, so I don&#039;t think we can take it for granted that the &#039;Black Easterling&#039; title was definitively rejected by Tolkien. Perhaps he simply preferred &#039;Shadow of the East&#039;. In either case, I&#039;d say the natural presumption would be that he imagined Khamûl as coming from the East. (&#039;&#039;&#039;It would be rather odd to imagine him changing his mind on this point, and then choosing &#039;Shadow of the East&#039; as a title.&#039;&#039;&#039;)&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Speculations by Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull, by Carl F. Hostetter or by Mark Fisher are just speculations. The article already included the possibility that Khamûl was an Easterling, but also pointed out that the Shadow of the East byname may just refer to the fact that Dol Guldur was located in the East (from the geographical point of view of someone in Eriador). Speculations should not be phrased more strongly than a mere possibility (e.g. &amp;quot;It is possible that&amp;quot;). Readers can make up their own mind if they think that the byname in the final version is &amp;quot;compatible&amp;quot; with the byname in the rejected version. A part from correcting one spelling mistake (Khâmul instead of Khamûl) an edit is unnecessary. An epithet is a byname. It is unnecessary to replace the term byname with the term epithet. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 13:37, 7 May 2023 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::The word Rhûn means &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; in Sindarin. We know that &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; epithet is the same with &amp;quot;the Shadow of the Rhûn&amp;quot; according to Sindarin and Tolkien&#039;s language. While expressing the eastern parts of Middle-Earth apart from Rhûn, Tolkien made a designation with a lowercase letter like &amp;quot;from the east, in the east, of the east&amp;quot; instead of the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;. Even for Mordor, the term &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; was not used directly, but the words &amp;quot;east&amp;quot; were used very little in lowercase letters. Because &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is a proper noun in the Tolkien Universe and is equivalent to the word &amp;quot;Rhûn&amp;quot; in Sindarin we know (&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Rhûn: &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, used generally of the lands of the further east of Middle-earth&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; - Unfinished Tales, Index - ). I am stating this situation with some quotations below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... Mordor, which was occupied by Sauron, although outside his original realms &#039;in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 2, The Istari)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;... many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039; (of old corrupted by Morgoth)....&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)    -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;The Wainriders were a people, or a confederacy of many peoples, that came from &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Return of the King, LoTR Appendix A, Annals of the Kings and Rulers: Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion)      -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;For Sauron had acquired dominion over many savage tribes in &#039;&#039;&#039;the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 2, Ch 10, Of Dwarves and Men)     -     &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Of the speech of &#039;&#039;&#039;Men of the East&#039;&#039;&#039; and allies of Sauron all that appears is múmak, a name of the great elephant of the Harad.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; (The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 1, Ch 2, The Appendix on Languages: Commentary) etc...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::In the rejected version of the present passage about the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in The Hunt for the Ring, Khamûl was given 2 epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;. In the present passage, we see Khamûl with 2 &#039;&#039;&#039;synonymous&#039;&#039;&#039; epithets which are &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the second to the Chief&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and in the present passage, the number of Ringwraiths in Dol Guldur has been increased and the epithets of Khamûl have been preserved. In both passages it is stated that Khamûl was from (of) the East (Rhûn) and was in the second position among the Ringwraiths. When we compare the epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, as Hammond&amp;amp;Scull said, &amp;quot;black&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;shadow&amp;quot; referring to a dark evil - this is a fact and not speculation. Also, that the word &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot; is Rhûn and that the word &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot; is people living in the East or Rhûn is not a speculation but a fact. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::First of all, I would like to state with sources that none of what I have written below is speculation. Dol Guldur is not a place located in the east of Middle-Earth (Nor is it in &amp;quot;the East&amp;quot;, Rhûn, anyway). When we look at the Map of the Middle-Earth, the fact that Dol Guldur is located in the Mirkwood and the Mirkwood is also in the east of the Anduin River does not, of course, mean that Dol Guldur is located in the east of Middle-Earth. Dol Guldur was originally known as Amon Lanc in Greenwood. There had been the capital of Oropher&#039;s Silvan Elves. The Elves had not settled in the east of Middle-Earth anyway. The east of Middle-earth is where the Easterlings had lived and settled. According to the Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch I, The Diaster of the Gladden Fields, the location of the Dol Guldur is also clearly stated to be west of the Greenwood, and there is no concept of east of the Middle-Earth we know.: &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Amon Lanc, &#039;Naked Hill&#039;, was the highest point in the highland at &#039;&#039;&#039;the south-west corner of the Greenwood&#039;&#039;&#039;, and was so called because no trees grew on its summit. In later days it was Dol Guldur, the first stronghold of Sauron after his awakening.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; From the &amp;quot;geographical point of view of someone in Eriador&amp;quot; it is not correct to call Mirkwood/Greenwood/Dol Guldur in the east of Middle Earth or &amp;quot;the East (Rhûn)&amp;quot;. When locating a location in Middle-earth, the map should be viewed in its entirety, not through the eyes of a person in any particular location. In order not to mislead readers who do not know much about &amp;quot;the East or Rhûn&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the Easterlings&amp;quot;, I think that at least the &amp;quot;Notes&amp;quot; part of the title should be corrected and detailed explanations should be given if necessary.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Bsrfrance</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372829</id>
		<title>Khamûl</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372829"/>
		<updated>2023-05-07T12:35:25Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Bsrfrance: /* History */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{evil infobox&lt;br /&gt;
| name=Khamûl&lt;br /&gt;
| image=[[Image:John Howe - Khamûl the Easterling.jpg|250px]]&lt;br /&gt;
| caption=&amp;quot;Khamûl the Easterling&amp;quot; by [[John Howe]]&lt;br /&gt;
| pronun=&lt;br /&gt;
| othernames=The Shadow of the East&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;The Second Chief&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;The Black Easterling&lt;br /&gt;
| titles=&lt;br /&gt;
| position=Second-in-command to the [[Witch-king]]&lt;br /&gt;
| location=[[Rhûn]], [[Mordor]], [[Dol Guldur]]&lt;br /&gt;
| affiliation=[[Easterlings]]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;[[Nazgûl]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;[[Eye of Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
| language=[[Mannish]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;[[Black Speech]]&lt;br /&gt;
| birth=[[Second Age]]&lt;br /&gt;
| birthlocation=Presumably [[Rhûn]]&lt;br /&gt;
| rule=&lt;br /&gt;
| death=[[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}&lt;br /&gt;
| deathlocation=[[Morannon]]&lt;br /&gt;
| age=4200+&lt;br /&gt;
| notablefor=Commanding [[Dol Guldur]]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;Pursuing [[Frodo Baggins]]&lt;br /&gt;
| parentage=&lt;br /&gt;
| siblings=&lt;br /&gt;
| spouse=&lt;br /&gt;
| children=&lt;br /&gt;
| race=[[Men|Man]] (early)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;[[Wraiths|Wraith]] (later)&lt;br /&gt;
| gender=Male&lt;br /&gt;
| height=&lt;br /&gt;
| hair=&lt;br /&gt;
| eyes=&lt;br /&gt;
| clothing=&lt;br /&gt;
| weapons=&lt;br /&gt;
| steed=Black horse&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Khamûl&#039;&#039;&#039; was one of the nine [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]], second only to the [[Witch-king]] himself, and since {{TA|2951}}&amp;lt;ref name=RC&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, &amp;quot;A Knife in the Dark&amp;quot;, p. 167-9&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Sauron&#039;s lieutenant at [[Dol Guldur]]. He was also called &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=Black&amp;gt;{{UT|Black}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== History ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Stephen Hickman - Gaffer Gamgee and the Black Rider.jpg|thumb|left|&#039;&#039;Gaffer Gamgee and the Black Rider&#039;&#039; by [[Stephen Hickman]]]]&lt;br /&gt;
Khamûl does seem to have been an [[Easterlings|Easterling]].&amp;lt;ref group=note&amp;gt;The earlier byname &amp;quot;the Black Easterling&amp;quot; of a then unnamed Ringwraith at Dol Guldur and his later byname &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; suggest that he was originally from the East, but the latter may also refer to the fact that he was based in Dol Guldur, which is in the East&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, &amp;quot;was from the East&amp;quot;, p. 84&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Like the other Ringwraiths, he was one of nine [[Men]] to whom [[Sauron]] gave one of the [[Nine Rings|Rings of Power]], who became mighty kings, sorcerers or warriors, and eventually faded into a [[Wraiths|wraith]] that was under the rule of Sauron.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|Rings}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; By {{SA|2251}} he and the other eight Men who had received rings of power first appeared as Ringwraiths.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;SA&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{App|SA}}, entry for the year 2251, p. 1083&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the Witch-king, Khamûl had the best ability to perceive the presence of [[the One Ring]], but his power was most confused and diminished by daylight.&amp;lt;ref name=Note1&amp;gt;{{UT|Hunt}}, Notes, note 1&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In {{TA|2951}} Sauron declared himself openly to his enemies and sent Khamûl and two other Ringwraiths to [[Dol Guldur]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 2951, p. 1089&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; with the former taking command&amp;lt;ref name=Black/&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Around [[22 July]] {{TA|3018}} Khamûl with another Ringwraith who lived at Dol Guldur met the Witch-king and six other Ringwraiths that lived at [[Minas Morgul]] in the [[Field of Celebrant]]. The Ringwraiths from Dol Guldur informed their fellow Ringwraiths from Minas Morgul that Gollum had escaped and vanished. Khamûl also told them that the villages of the [[Stoors]] at the river [[Gladden]] had been deserted for a long time and that it had not been possible to find a dwelling of [[Hobbits|Halflings]] in the [[Vales of Anduin]].&amp;lt;ref name=Black/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the evening of [[23 September]] {{TA|3018}} Khamûl arrived in [[Hobbiton]] and asked [[Gaffer Gamgee|Hamfast Gamgee]] about &amp;quot;Baggins&amp;quot;. Hamfast Gamgee misled him that Frodo Baggins had already left and he rode to the east. On [[24 September]] {{TA|3018}} he rode on the [[Stock Road]] and overtook Frodo and stopped, because he sensed the Ring, but he was not certain because of the bright daylight and left again and waited until the night.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 97&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; After the sunset he sensed the ring again and pursued Frodo. He did not dare to attack, because he was intimidated by the [[Elves]] and by the song about [[Elbereth]]. He could not sense the ring clearly as long as Frodo was surrounded by the Elves.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 99&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the departure of the Elves Khamûl continued to pursue Frodo, but does not find him and called the other Ringwraith from Dol Guldur to him with cries. He and another Ringwraith from Dol Guldur went east over the fields and Khamûl visits [[farmer Maggot]]. After leaving farmer Maggot he sent his companion off to take the [[Causeway]] in the direction of the [[Overbourn Marshes]] and he went north in the direction of the [[Brandywine Bridge]]. Khamûl then arrived too late at the [[Bucklebury Ferry]] in the night of [[25 September]] {{TA|3018}}.&amp;lt;ref name=RC164&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 164&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After Frodo had left on the ferry Khamûl summoned the other four Ringwraiths who had entered the Shire with him. He ordered one to watch the Brandywine Bridge and sent two to ride east on the [[East Road]] and inform the Witch-king that the ring has moved east. Khamûl and another Ringwraith from Dol Guldur entered [[Buckland]] in secret through the [[Buckland Gate|north gate]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 164&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; They searched the Buckland and arrived at Crickhollow in the night of [[28 September]] {{TA|3018}}. Khâmul sent the other Ringwraith from Dol Guldur to collect the Ringwraith who guarded the Brandywine Bridge and the horses that they had left behind and waited. The three Ringwraiths then watch Crickhollow through the night until the next morning.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 165&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He was also one of the six Ringwraiths, led by the Witch King, that followed Gandalf on [[Shadowfax]] and attacked him during the night on [[Weathertop]], but were repulsed after a violent fight on 4 October {{TA|3018}}, when [[Frodo]] and [[Aragorn]] saw the lights of that battle from their camp. The Witch King and Khamûl stayed behind to watch Weathertop (waiting for the Ring Bearer to come) for two days thereafter, along with two other Ringwraiths and sent four Ringwraiths to pursue Gandalf.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}} citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 168&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Khamûl and two other Ringwraiths were at the bridge over the [[Hoarwell]] on 11 October {{TA|3018}} when they were attacked by [[Glorfindel]] who drove them back off the road until they scattered. However Khamûl, the Witch-king and three other Ringwraiths assembled again and continued with their pursuit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 194&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He was among the Ringwraiths who dared to use the ford to ride into the river [[Loudwater]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 196&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; but was swept down the river by the flood that was called by [[Elrond]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From 20 March {{TA|3019}}&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|Great}}, entry for the year 3019, March 19, p. 1094&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; on, Khamûl and the other seven remaining Ringwraiths were flying on their [[Fell beasts]] over the [[Army of the West]] watching its movements as it marched to the [[Black Gate]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Gate}}, &amp;quot;near the end of the second day of their march from the Cross-roads&amp;quot;, p. 885&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On 25 March {{TA|3019}},&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|Great}}, p. 1094&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Khamûl and all the other seven Ringwraiths were flying on their [[Fell beasts]] over the [[Army of the West]] during the [[Battle of the Morannon]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Gate}}, p. 887&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; When Frodo put on the ring at the [[Cracks of Doom]] in [[Mount Doom]] Sauron realised the danger and ordered Khâmul and the other Ringwraiths to race to Mount Doom.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Doom}}, p. 946&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Khamûl probably perished with the rest of the Ringwraiths when they flew on their Fell beasts to Mount Doom and were caught in the fiery eruption of Mount Doom that took place after the destruction of the One Ring, because they &amp;quot;crackled, withered, and went out&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Doom}}, p. 947&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Other versions of the legendarium ==&lt;br /&gt;
The epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; were used for an unnamed Ringwraith that was based in Dol Guldur in a rejected version of the present passage of the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in &amp;quot;The Hunt for the Ring&amp;quot;, but not in the present version where the Ringwraith who was Sauron&#039;s lieutenant at Dol Guldur was named Khamûl. In the present passage of the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in &amp;quot;The Hunt for the Ring&amp;quot;, Khamûl is called as &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the second to the Chief&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, which are exactly compatible with the epithets in the rejected version of the present passage. Besides, Christopher Tolkien noted that the epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, where found in a rejected version of the present passage of the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in &amp;quot;The Hunt for the Ring&amp;quot;, refer to Khamûl.&amp;lt;ref name=Note1/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal in adaptations ==&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2001-: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Khamûl received two named miniatures in the game, one depicting his cloaked form and the other his armored appearance as seen in &#039;&#039;[[The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies]]&#039;&#039;. The latter explicitly identifies Khamûl as the Ringwraith with a more ornate version of the Easterling helmets seen in &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2002: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:During the nighttime section of the Shire level, Frodo overhears the conversation between Khamûl and [[Gaffer Gamgee]] just as he is about to deliver the [[Bag End]] key to Number 3, Bagshot Row. The conversation plays out as it does in the novel except that Khamûl&#039;s lines are audible. Instead of simply walking back down the path after the conversation ends, Khamûl (who is mounted on his horse) intimidates the Gaffer by rearing his steed while letting out a ghastly wail, before galloping back down the road. No voice actor is specified for the role.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2007: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Nazgûl in charge of Dol Guldur is known simply as &amp;quot;The Lieutenant of Dol Guldur&amp;quot;, formerly &amp;quot;The Cursed Rider&amp;quot;. He is said to have been an Easterling chieftain who wielded the Ring &amp;quot;Orôm, the Warmonger&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references|note}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Khamul}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Easterlings]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Nazgûl]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Second Age characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Servants of Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Third Age characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Khamûl]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/nazgul/khamul]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Khamûl]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Bsrfrance</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372828</id>
		<title>Khamûl</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372828"/>
		<updated>2023-05-07T12:34:52Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Bsrfrance: /* History */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{evil infobox&lt;br /&gt;
| name=Khamûl&lt;br /&gt;
| image=[[Image:John Howe - Khamûl the Easterling.jpg|250px]]&lt;br /&gt;
| caption=&amp;quot;Khamûl the Easterling&amp;quot; by [[John Howe]]&lt;br /&gt;
| pronun=&lt;br /&gt;
| othernames=The Shadow of the East&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;The Second Chief&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;The Black Easterling&lt;br /&gt;
| titles=&lt;br /&gt;
| position=Second-in-command to the [[Witch-king]]&lt;br /&gt;
| location=[[Rhûn]], [[Mordor]], [[Dol Guldur]]&lt;br /&gt;
| affiliation=[[Easterlings]]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;[[Nazgûl]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;[[Eye of Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
| language=[[Mannish]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;[[Black Speech]]&lt;br /&gt;
| birth=[[Second Age]]&lt;br /&gt;
| birthlocation=Presumably [[Rhûn]]&lt;br /&gt;
| rule=&lt;br /&gt;
| death=[[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}&lt;br /&gt;
| deathlocation=[[Morannon]]&lt;br /&gt;
| age=4200+&lt;br /&gt;
| notablefor=Commanding [[Dol Guldur]]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;Pursuing [[Frodo Baggins]]&lt;br /&gt;
| parentage=&lt;br /&gt;
| siblings=&lt;br /&gt;
| spouse=&lt;br /&gt;
| children=&lt;br /&gt;
| race=[[Men|Man]] (early)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;[[Wraiths|Wraith]] (later)&lt;br /&gt;
| gender=Male&lt;br /&gt;
| height=&lt;br /&gt;
| hair=&lt;br /&gt;
| eyes=&lt;br /&gt;
| clothing=&lt;br /&gt;
| weapons=&lt;br /&gt;
| steed=Black horse&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Khamûl&#039;&#039;&#039; was one of the nine [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]], second only to the [[Witch-king]] himself, and since {{TA|2951}}&amp;lt;ref name=RC&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, &amp;quot;A Knife in the Dark&amp;quot;, p. 167-9&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Sauron&#039;s lieutenant at [[Dol Guldur]]. He was also called &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=Black&amp;gt;{{UT|Black}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== History ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Stephen Hickman - Gaffer Gamgee and the Black Rider.jpg|thumb|left|&#039;&#039;Gaffer Gamgee and the Black Rider&#039;&#039; by [[Stephen Hickman]]]]&lt;br /&gt;
Khâmul does seem to have been an [[Easterlings|Easterling]].&amp;lt;ref group=note&amp;gt;The earlier byname &amp;quot;the Black Easterling&amp;quot; of a then unnamed Ringwraith at Dol Guldur and his later byname &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; suggest that he was originally from the East, but the latter may also refer to the fact that he was based in Dol Guldur, which is in the East&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, &amp;quot;was from the East&amp;quot;, p. 84&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Like the other Ringwraiths, he was one of nine [[Men]] to whom [[Sauron]] gave one of the [[Nine Rings|Rings of Power]], who became mighty kings, sorcerers or warriors, and eventually faded into a [[Wraiths|wraith]] that was under the rule of Sauron.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|Rings}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; By {{SA|2251}} he and the other eight Men who had received rings of power first appeared as Ringwraiths.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;SA&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{App|SA}}, entry for the year 2251, p. 1083&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the Witch-king, Khamûl had the best ability to perceive the presence of [[the One Ring]], but his power was most confused and diminished by daylight.&amp;lt;ref name=Note1&amp;gt;{{UT|Hunt}}, Notes, note 1&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In {{TA|2951}} Sauron declared himself openly to his enemies and sent Khamûl and two other Ringwraiths to [[Dol Guldur]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 2951, p. 1089&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; with the former taking command&amp;lt;ref name=Black/&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Around [[22 July]] {{TA|3018}} Khamûl with another Ringwraith who lived at Dol Guldur met the Witch-king and six other Ringwraiths that lived at [[Minas Morgul]] in the [[Field of Celebrant]]. The Ringwraiths from Dol Guldur informed their fellow Ringwraiths from Minas Morgul that Gollum had escaped and vanished. Khamûl also told them that the villages of the [[Stoors]] at the river [[Gladden]] had been deserted for a long time and that it had not been possible to find a dwelling of [[Hobbits|Halflings]] in the [[Vales of Anduin]].&amp;lt;ref name=Black/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the evening of [[23 September]] {{TA|3018}} Khamûl arrived in [[Hobbiton]] and asked [[Gaffer Gamgee|Hamfast Gamgee]] about &amp;quot;Baggins&amp;quot;. Hamfast Gamgee misled him that Frodo Baggins had already left and he rode to the east. On [[24 September]] {{TA|3018}} he rode on the [[Stock Road]] and overtook Frodo and stopped, because he sensed the Ring, but he was not certain because of the bright daylight and left again and waited until the night.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 97&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; After the sunset he sensed the ring again and pursued Frodo. He did not dare to attack, because he was intimidated by the [[Elves]] and by the song about [[Elbereth]]. He could not sense the ring clearly as long as Frodo was surrounded by the Elves.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 99&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the departure of the Elves Khamûl continued to pursue Frodo, but does not find him and called the other Ringwraith from Dol Guldur to him with cries. He and another Ringwraith from Dol Guldur went east over the fields and Khamûl visits [[farmer Maggot]]. After leaving farmer Maggot he sent his companion off to take the [[Causeway]] in the direction of the [[Overbourn Marshes]] and he went north in the direction of the [[Brandywine Bridge]]. Khamûl then arrived too late at the [[Bucklebury Ferry]] in the night of [[25 September]] {{TA|3018}}.&amp;lt;ref name=RC164&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 164&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After Frodo had left on the ferry Khamûl summoned the other four Ringwraiths who had entered the Shire with him. He ordered one to watch the Brandywine Bridge and sent two to ride east on the [[East Road]] and inform the Witch-king that the ring has moved east. Khamûl and another Ringwraith from Dol Guldur entered [[Buckland]] in secret through the [[Buckland Gate|north gate]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 164&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; They searched the Buckland and arrived at Crickhollow in the night of [[28 September]] {{TA|3018}}. Khâmul sent the other Ringwraith from Dol Guldur to collect the Ringwraith who guarded the Brandywine Bridge and the horses that they had left behind and waited. The three Ringwraiths then watch Crickhollow through the night until the next morning.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 165&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He was also one of the six Ringwraiths, led by the Witch King, that followed Gandalf on [[Shadowfax]] and attacked him during the night on [[Weathertop]], but were repulsed after a violent fight on 4 October {{TA|3018}}, when [[Frodo]] and [[Aragorn]] saw the lights of that battle from their camp. The Witch King and Khamûl stayed behind to watch Weathertop (waiting for the Ring Bearer to come) for two days thereafter, along with two other Ringwraiths and sent four Ringwraiths to pursue Gandalf.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}} citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 168&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Khamûl and two other Ringwraiths were at the bridge over the [[Hoarwell]] on 11 October {{TA|3018}} when they were attacked by [[Glorfindel]] who drove them back off the road until they scattered. However Khamûl, the Witch-king and three other Ringwraiths assembled again and continued with their pursuit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 194&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He was among the Ringwraiths who dared to use the ford to ride into the river [[Loudwater]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 196&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; but was swept down the river by the flood that was called by [[Elrond]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From 20 March {{TA|3019}}&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|Great}}, entry for the year 3019, March 19, p. 1094&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; on, Khamûl and the other seven remaining Ringwraiths were flying on their [[Fell beasts]] over the [[Army of the West]] watching its movements as it marched to the [[Black Gate]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Gate}}, &amp;quot;near the end of the second day of their march from the Cross-roads&amp;quot;, p. 885&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On 25 March {{TA|3019}},&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|Great}}, p. 1094&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Khamûl and all the other seven Ringwraiths were flying on their [[Fell beasts]] over the [[Army of the West]] during the [[Battle of the Morannon]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Gate}}, p. 887&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; When Frodo put on the ring at the [[Cracks of Doom]] in [[Mount Doom]] Sauron realised the danger and ordered Khâmul and the other Ringwraiths to race to Mount Doom.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Doom}}, p. 946&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Khamûl probably perished with the rest of the Ringwraiths when they flew on their Fell beasts to Mount Doom and were caught in the fiery eruption of Mount Doom that took place after the destruction of the One Ring, because they &amp;quot;crackled, withered, and went out&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Doom}}, p. 947&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Other versions of the legendarium ==&lt;br /&gt;
The epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; were used for an unnamed Ringwraith that was based in Dol Guldur in a rejected version of the present passage of the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in &amp;quot;The Hunt for the Ring&amp;quot;, but not in the present version where the Ringwraith who was Sauron&#039;s lieutenant at Dol Guldur was named Khamûl. In the present passage of the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in &amp;quot;The Hunt for the Ring&amp;quot;, Khamûl is called as &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the second to the Chief&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, which are exactly compatible with the epithets in the rejected version of the present passage. Besides, Christopher Tolkien noted that the epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, where found in a rejected version of the present passage of the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in &amp;quot;The Hunt for the Ring&amp;quot;, refer to Khamûl.&amp;lt;ref name=Note1/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal in adaptations ==&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2001-: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Khamûl received two named miniatures in the game, one depicting his cloaked form and the other his armored appearance as seen in &#039;&#039;[[The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies]]&#039;&#039;. The latter explicitly identifies Khamûl as the Ringwraith with a more ornate version of the Easterling helmets seen in &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2002: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:During the nighttime section of the Shire level, Frodo overhears the conversation between Khamûl and [[Gaffer Gamgee]] just as he is about to deliver the [[Bag End]] key to Number 3, Bagshot Row. The conversation plays out as it does in the novel except that Khamûl&#039;s lines are audible. Instead of simply walking back down the path after the conversation ends, Khamûl (who is mounted on his horse) intimidates the Gaffer by rearing his steed while letting out a ghastly wail, before galloping back down the road. No voice actor is specified for the role.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2007: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Nazgûl in charge of Dol Guldur is known simply as &amp;quot;The Lieutenant of Dol Guldur&amp;quot;, formerly &amp;quot;The Cursed Rider&amp;quot;. He is said to have been an Easterling chieftain who wielded the Ring &amp;quot;Orôm, the Warmonger&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references|note}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Khamul}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Easterlings]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Nazgûl]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Second Age characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Servants of Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Third Age characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Khamûl]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/nazgul/khamul]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Khamûl]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Bsrfrance</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372827</id>
		<title>Khamûl</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372827"/>
		<updated>2023-05-07T12:34:09Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Bsrfrance: /* Other versions of the legendarium */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{evil infobox&lt;br /&gt;
| name=Khamûl&lt;br /&gt;
| image=[[Image:John Howe - Khamûl the Easterling.jpg|250px]]&lt;br /&gt;
| caption=&amp;quot;Khamûl the Easterling&amp;quot; by [[John Howe]]&lt;br /&gt;
| pronun=&lt;br /&gt;
| othernames=The Shadow of the East&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;The Second Chief&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;The Black Easterling&lt;br /&gt;
| titles=&lt;br /&gt;
| position=Second-in-command to the [[Witch-king]]&lt;br /&gt;
| location=[[Rhûn]], [[Mordor]], [[Dol Guldur]]&lt;br /&gt;
| affiliation=[[Easterlings]]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;[[Nazgûl]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;[[Eye of Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
| language=[[Mannish]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;[[Black Speech]]&lt;br /&gt;
| birth=[[Second Age]]&lt;br /&gt;
| birthlocation=Presumably [[Rhûn]]&lt;br /&gt;
| rule=&lt;br /&gt;
| death=[[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}&lt;br /&gt;
| deathlocation=[[Morannon]]&lt;br /&gt;
| age=4200+&lt;br /&gt;
| notablefor=Commanding [[Dol Guldur]]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;Pursuing [[Frodo Baggins]]&lt;br /&gt;
| parentage=&lt;br /&gt;
| siblings=&lt;br /&gt;
| spouse=&lt;br /&gt;
| children=&lt;br /&gt;
| race=[[Men|Man]] (early)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;[[Wraiths|Wraith]] (later)&lt;br /&gt;
| gender=Male&lt;br /&gt;
| height=&lt;br /&gt;
| hair=&lt;br /&gt;
| eyes=&lt;br /&gt;
| clothing=&lt;br /&gt;
| weapons=&lt;br /&gt;
| steed=Black horse&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Khamûl&#039;&#039;&#039; was one of the nine [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]], second only to the [[Witch-king]] himself, and since {{TA|2951}}&amp;lt;ref name=RC&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, &amp;quot;A Knife in the Dark&amp;quot;, p. 167-9&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Sauron&#039;s lieutenant at [[Dol Guldur]]. He was also called &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=Black&amp;gt;{{UT|Black}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== History ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Stephen Hickman - Gaffer Gamgee and the Black Rider.jpg|thumb|left|&#039;&#039;Gaffer Gamgee and the Black Rider&#039;&#039; by [[Stephen Hickman]]]]&lt;br /&gt;
It is possible that Khâmul was an [[Easterlings|Easterling]].&amp;lt;ref group=note&amp;gt;The earlier byname &amp;quot;the Black Easterling&amp;quot; of a then unnamed Ringwraith at Dol Guldur and his later byname &amp;quot;the Shadow of the East&amp;quot; suggest that he was originally from the East, but the latter may also refer to the fact that he was based in Dol Guldur, which is in the East&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, &amp;quot;was from the East&amp;quot;, p. 84&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Like the other Ringwraiths, he was one of nine [[Men]] to whom [[Sauron]] gave one of the [[Nine Rings|Rings of Power]], who became mighty kings, sorcerers or warriors, and eventually faded into a [[Wraiths|wraith]] that was under the rule of Sauron.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|Rings}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; By {{SA|2251}} he and the other eight Men who had received rings of power first appeared as Ringwraiths.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;SA&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{App|SA}}, entry for the year 2251, p. 1083&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the Witch-king, Khamûl had the best ability to perceive the presence of [[the One Ring]], but his power was most confused and diminished by daylight.&amp;lt;ref name=Note1&amp;gt;{{UT|Hunt}}, Notes, note 1&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In {{TA|2951}} Sauron declared himself openly to his enemies and sent Khamûl and two other Ringwraiths to [[Dol Guldur]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 2951, p. 1089&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; with the former taking command&amp;lt;ref name=Black/&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Around [[22 July]] {{TA|3018}} Khamûl with another Ringwraith who lived at Dol Guldur met the Witch-king and six other Ringwraiths that lived at [[Minas Morgul]] in the [[Field of Celebrant]]. The Ringwraiths from Dol Guldur informed their fellow Ringwraiths from Minas Morgul that Gollum had escaped and vanished. Khamûl also told them that the villages of the [[Stoors]] at the river [[Gladden]] had been deserted for a long time and that it had not been possible to find a dwelling of [[Hobbits|Halflings]] in the [[Vales of Anduin]].&amp;lt;ref name=Black/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the evening of [[23 September]] {{TA|3018}} Khamûl arrived in [[Hobbiton]] and asked [[Gaffer Gamgee|Hamfast Gamgee]] about &amp;quot;Baggins&amp;quot;. Hamfast Gamgee misled him that Frodo Baggins had already left and he rode to the east. On [[24 September]] {{TA|3018}} he rode on the [[Stock Road]] and overtook Frodo and stopped, because he sensed the Ring, but he was not certain because of the bright daylight and left again and waited until the night.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 97&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; After the sunset he sensed the ring again and pursued Frodo. He did not dare to attack, because he was intimidated by the [[Elves]] and by the song about [[Elbereth]]. He could not sense the ring clearly as long as Frodo was surrounded by the Elves.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 99&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the departure of the Elves Khamûl continued to pursue Frodo, but does not find him and called the other Ringwraith from Dol Guldur to him with cries. He and another Ringwraith from Dol Guldur went east over the fields and Khamûl visits [[farmer Maggot]]. After leaving farmer Maggot he sent his companion off to take the [[Causeway]] in the direction of the [[Overbourn Marshes]] and he went north in the direction of the [[Brandywine Bridge]]. Khamûl then arrived too late at the [[Bucklebury Ferry]] in the night of [[25 September]] {{TA|3018}}.&amp;lt;ref name=RC164&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 164&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After Frodo had left on the ferry Khamûl summoned the other four Ringwraiths who had entered the Shire with him. He ordered one to watch the Brandywine Bridge and sent two to ride east on the [[East Road]] and inform the Witch-king that the ring has moved east. Khamûl and another Ringwraith from Dol Guldur entered [[Buckland]] in secret through the [[Buckland Gate|north gate]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 164&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; They searched the Buckland and arrived at Crickhollow in the night of [[28 September]] {{TA|3018}}. Khâmul sent the other Ringwraith from Dol Guldur to collect the Ringwraith who guarded the Brandywine Bridge and the horses that they had left behind and waited. The three Ringwraiths then watch Crickhollow through the night until the next morning.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 165&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He was also one of the six Ringwraiths, led by the Witch King, that followed Gandalf on [[Shadowfax]] and attacked him during the night on [[Weathertop]], but were repulsed after a violent fight on 4 October {{TA|3018}}, when [[Frodo]] and [[Aragorn]] saw the lights of that battle from their camp. The Witch King and Khamûl stayed behind to watch Weathertop (waiting for the Ring Bearer to come) for two days thereafter, along with two other Ringwraiths and sent four Ringwraiths to pursue Gandalf.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}} citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 168&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Khamûl and two other Ringwraiths were at the bridge over the [[Hoarwell]] on 11 October {{TA|3018}} when they were attacked by [[Glorfindel]] who drove them back off the road until they scattered. However Khamûl, the Witch-king and three other Ringwraiths assembled again and continued with their pursuit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 194&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He was among the Ringwraiths who dared to use the ford to ride into the river [[Loudwater]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|RC}}, citing from an unpublished version of &#039;&#039;The Hunt for the Ring&#039;&#039;, p. 196&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; but was swept down the river by the flood that was called by [[Elrond]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From 20 March {{TA|3019}}&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|Great}}, entry for the year 3019, March 19, p. 1094&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; on, Khamûl and the other seven remaining Ringwraiths were flying on their [[Fell beasts]] over the [[Army of the West]] watching its movements as it marched to the [[Black Gate]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Gate}}, &amp;quot;near the end of the second day of their march from the Cross-roads&amp;quot;, p. 885&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On 25 March {{TA|3019}},&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|Great}}, p. 1094&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Khamûl and all the other seven Ringwraiths were flying on their [[Fell beasts]] over the [[Army of the West]] during the [[Battle of the Morannon]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Gate}}, p. 887&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; When Frodo put on the ring at the [[Cracks of Doom]] in [[Mount Doom]] Sauron realised the danger and ordered Khâmul and the other Ringwraiths to race to Mount Doom.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Doom}}, p. 946&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Khamûl probably perished with the rest of the Ringwraiths when they flew on their Fell beasts to Mount Doom and were caught in the fiery eruption of Mount Doom that took place after the destruction of the One Ring, because they &amp;quot;crackled, withered, and went out&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Doom}}, p. 947&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Other versions of the legendarium ==&lt;br /&gt;
The epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; were used for an unnamed Ringwraith that was based in Dol Guldur in a rejected version of the present passage of the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in &amp;quot;The Hunt for the Ring&amp;quot;, but not in the present version where the Ringwraith who was Sauron&#039;s lieutenant at Dol Guldur was named Khamûl. In the present passage of the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in &amp;quot;The Hunt for the Ring&amp;quot;, Khamûl is called as &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the second to the Chief&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, which are exactly compatible with the epithets in the rejected version of the present passage. Besides, Christopher Tolkien noted that the epithets &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Second Chief&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;, where found in a rejected version of the present passage of the earlier movements of the Ringwraiths in &amp;quot;The Hunt for the Ring&amp;quot;, refer to Khamûl.&amp;lt;ref name=Note1/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal in adaptations ==&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2001-: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Khamûl received two named miniatures in the game, one depicting his cloaked form and the other his armored appearance as seen in &#039;&#039;[[The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies]]&#039;&#039;. The latter explicitly identifies Khamûl as the Ringwraith with a more ornate version of the Easterling helmets seen in &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2002: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:During the nighttime section of the Shire level, Frodo overhears the conversation between Khamûl and [[Gaffer Gamgee]] just as he is about to deliver the [[Bag End]] key to Number 3, Bagshot Row. The conversation plays out as it does in the novel except that Khamûl&#039;s lines are audible. Instead of simply walking back down the path after the conversation ends, Khamûl (who is mounted on his horse) intimidates the Gaffer by rearing his steed while letting out a ghastly wail, before galloping back down the road. No voice actor is specified for the role.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2007: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Nazgûl in charge of Dol Guldur is known simply as &amp;quot;The Lieutenant of Dol Guldur&amp;quot;, formerly &amp;quot;The Cursed Rider&amp;quot;. He is said to have been an Easterling chieftain who wielded the Ring &amp;quot;Orôm, the Warmonger&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references|note}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Khamul}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Easterlings]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Nazgûl]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Second Age characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Servants of Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Third Age characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Khamûl]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/nazgul/khamul]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Khamûl]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Bsrfrance</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372826</id>
		<title>Talk:Khamûl</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kham%C3%BBl&amp;diff=372826"/>
		<updated>2023-05-07T12:33:36Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Bsrfrance: /* Epithets of Khamul */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Category for the Nazgûl ==&lt;br /&gt;
There&#039;s not a category for the Nazgûl. Where should we place them? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 14:33, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hm, a category just for [[Nazgûl]] seems like a waste but I suppose its necessary for standardization. Do we call it &#039;&#039;Nazgûl&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;Ringwraiths&#039;&#039; though? Maybe another main category should be made for &#039;&#039;Evil forces&#039;&#039; or something similar. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:18, 20 July 2006 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== More references ==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sure that there&#039;s more references to Khamûl; I&#039;m struggling to remember where I read about Khamûl helping the Lord of the Nazgul find the ring by going into the Anduin -he is the only Nazgul to go in despite being afraid(I think) of water although the Lord of the Nazgul wasn&#039;t. So, does anyone know what I&#039;m talking about?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:06, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The Hunt for the Ring (in UT)? Or Reader&#039;s Companion? I remember it had some unpublished bits from Hunt ft Ring. B-- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 16:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I know [[Alan Lee]] and [[John Howe]] played two of the 9 kings, did it say if either of them was Khamûl? I dont have my dvds handy.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 15:41, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:John Howe did not have any cameos. It is unknown which of the nine was Khamûl. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:53, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your right, I always heard he did, guess I should have checked his article before saying that.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:01, 27 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Epithets of Khamul ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Khamul is definitely the second Nazgul with the epithet Shadow of the East and Second Chief according to the present passage in Hunt for the Ring Chapter of Unfinished Tales. Also, even though&#039;&#039;&#039; the Black Easterling&#039;&#039;&#039;  epithet was included in the rejected version of the present passage (Hunt for the Ring, note 1 said that)Does this mean that the BE epithet was rejected directly or even if it was in the rejected story, it was other epithet?&lt;br /&gt;
Christopher Tolkien has already told us that even JRRT’s rejected (abandoned) notes and tales in UT had a meaning and significance. According to Introduction of UT, Christopher Tolkien said that: “... On the other hand, the nature and scope of his invention seems to me to place even his abandoned stories in a peculiar position.” He pointed out the importance of getting information from each story (abandoned or present). What should we consider? {{unsigned|95.70.132.159}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The statement that he was an Easterling is just a speculation, because J.R.R. Tolkien rejected Black Easterling in a note. As a consequence, the entry should only say that it is &amp;quot;possible&amp;quot; that he was an easterling.I have not checked the references in the article, but I think that J.R.R. Tolkien has not said that he was the commander of Dol Guldur or that he was in Dol Guldur. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 03:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Information about Khamul from the MERP module Gorgoroth and from MERP Lords of Middle-earth - The immortal races could be added to the portrayal in adaptions, because it contains extensive information about Khamul. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 04:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hammond and Scull mailed to me on 22/12/2020 and allowed me to share their ideas.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Khamûl does seem to have been an Easterling, or Man from the East of Middle-earth, whatever that may have meant in Tolkien&#039;s mythology in terms of race, ethnicity, or customs. Tolkien provides only scanty information, calling him in one version of The Hunt for the Ring &#039;the second to the Chief, Khamûl the Shadow of the East&#039;, and in another, rejected version (as you saw), though unnamed, &#039;the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)&#039;. &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;The Black Easterling&#039; of course is only another way of saying &#039;the Shadow of the East&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, black and shadow referring to a dark evil rather than to, say, skin colour.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Best wishes,&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Wayne Hammond &amp;amp; Christina Scull&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Besides, Carl F. Hostetter, the editor of Nature of Middle-Earth, wrote the following on this subject and again allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;I see no reason whatsoever to think that Tolkien ever “rejected” the idea that Khamûl was an Easterling — i.e., a man from and/or ruling in the east of Middle-earth. I’m unsure why anyone would think otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;Carl&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Mark Fisher, the editor and owner of Encyclopedia of Arda, wrote the following about this subject and allowed me to share it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:“&#039;&#039;Regarding the rejected passage, I&#039;m not sure that there&#039;s much we can say (since we&#039;re not told much about it, and certainly not why it was rejected). The reason for rewriting this text might have had nothing to do with Khamûl at all, so I don&#039;t think we can take it for granted that the &#039;Black Easterling&#039; title was definitively rejected by Tolkien. Perhaps he simply preferred &#039;Shadow of the East&#039;. In either case, I&#039;d say the natural presumption would be that he imagined Khamûl as coming from the East. (&#039;&#039;&#039;It would be rather odd to imagine him changing his mind on this point, and then choosing &#039;Shadow of the East&#039; as a title.&#039;&#039;&#039;)&#039;&#039;”&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Bsrfrance</name></author>
	</entry>
</feed>