Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

Talk:The Atlas of Middle-earth

2026-01-07T20:49:49Z

Calion: /* Errors and criticism */ Reply

==Oakbottom==
I added that one to Oatbarton some time ago, but can't find reference anymore. It's spelled correctly on 70-1.

Also useful might be the inclusion of [[Tarnost]] on pp 88-9, and the inclusion of "Sackville" as a town name (70-1). And maybe something about "things that are now shown to be incorrect", like Hardbottle. Fonstad placed it in the SF, but [[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings|Nomenclature]] placed it in the NF. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:56, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

:I am not aware of these, so I would love it if you could make the additions. Also, I am afraid if the article is a bit too negative. I really love this book. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:27, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

::Maybe a rewrite is necessary. I don't like articles that have a bulk of text first and their first section header at the bottom. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:41, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

==Third edition==

Did the 3rd edition add anything new or was it just a reprint? --[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 15:28, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

:I think a reprint but the TolkienBooks.net might have a better idea. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:59, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
::Yup, that's what I thought, too. It was only done for the films. But I'll check with Tolkienbooks.net and emend here. --[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 12:15, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

==Lists of versions, bibliography, reviews, etc.==

I made a comprehensive edit to everything that's been added since the last time I checked in on this article, and first want to say Airyn made additions of new inconsistencies and errors that greatly contribute to the article's value to a reader of the ''Atlas''.

The thing I wanted to open to discussion is this: I removed several of the sections that Airyn added. I don't think it's usual for us to include lists of reviews, other works by the author, etc. on pages for a particular work, unless there's something directly relevant to the encyclopedia reader about said reviews or other works. Is there some significance to those that I missed?

I could see that 4 of the 6 reviews were from the ISBN lookup page, so I figured they would be covered via inclusion of the external link. I left the foreign language edition list in because I couldn't tell where that information came from. Airyn, if you have a source for that similar to isfdb.org, maybe you would consider removing that list from the article and replacing it with an external link? [[Special:Contributions/Mord|Mord]] 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

:I agree with you that the other works shouldn't be included; I also think on the reviews you don't want a list of reviews but what is worthwhile is a "Reception" section detailed what people thought of the good. (It's generally good but has some errors and makes some assumptions, I guess would be the general thrust.)
:It's been a very long time since I looked at this article, but what struck me is why we even have an inconsistencies and errors section. There is no referencing or backing of it in any kind; we can't "defend" the wiki's claims here on the inconsistencies/errors as they are own research without any referencing. I appreciate it is not a big thing but does probably need looking at. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:07, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

==Errors and criticism==

This section on potential errors is useful, as there is no official errata page for the book (unlike the one for Hammond and Scull's Reader's Companion).

I believe Airyn was the main contributor. As a newcomer to editing this wiki and still inexperienced, I want to avoid making disruptive changes. While checking the editions I own (1981 printing and 2001 revised edition), I could not verify several of the listed issues. They may appear in other printings.

Adding brief notes on which edition each item affects would make the section more reliable and easier for others to verify or expand.

I would be glad to help organize it, but I would prefer to connect with Airyn or anyone familiar with these points first to avoid duplicating effort.

One small suggestion: a more neutral title like "Textual Notes and Variants" or "Edition Differences and Corrections" might better reflect the section's purpose.

Thanks to all contributors. [[User:Algathrim|"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."]] ([[User talk:Algathrim|talk]]) 05:22, 6 January 2026 (UTC)
:I have the 1992 edition, if you wish to compare notes. [[User:Calion|Calion]] ([[User talk:Calion|talk]]) 20:08, 6 January 2026 (UTC)
::Yes, please. [[User:Algathrim|"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."]] ([[User talk:Algathrim|talk]]) 07:14, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
::I am currently reviewing the section and making notes to show what seems valid in the '81 and '01 editions. Then maybe we can have a look at your '91 for comparison? [[User:Algathrim|Algathrim]] ([[User talk:Algathrim|talk]]) 14:47, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Absolutely. Just let me know what you want me to look at. [[User:Calion|Calion]] ([[User talk:Calion|talk]]) 20:49, 7 January 2026 (UTC)

Talk:The Atlas of Middle-earth

2026-01-06T20:08:02Z

Calion:

==Oakbottom==
I added that one to Oatbarton some time ago, but can't find reference anymore. It's spelled correctly on 70-1.

Also useful might be the inclusion of [[Tarnost]] on pp 88-9, and the inclusion of "Sackville" as a town name (70-1). And maybe something about "things that are now shown to be incorrect", like Hardbottle. Fonstad placed it in the SF, but [[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings|Nomenclature]] placed it in the NF. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:56, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

:I am not aware of these, so I would love it if you could make the additions. Also, I am afraid if the article is a bit too negative. I really love this book. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:27, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

::Maybe a rewrite is necessary. I don't like articles that have a bulk of text first and their first section header at the bottom. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:41, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

==Third edition==

Did the 3rd edition add anything new or was it just a reprint? --[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 15:28, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

:I think a reprint but the TolkienBooks.net might have a better idea. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:59, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
:: Yup, that's what I thought, too. It was only done for the films. But I'll check with Tolkienbooks.net and emend here. --[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 12:15, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

== Lists of versions, bibliography, reviews, etc. ==

I made a comprehensive edit to everything that's been added since the last time I checked in on this article, and first want to say Airyn made additions of new inconsistencies and errors that greatly contribute to the article's value to a reader of the ''Atlas''.

The thing I wanted to open to discussion is this: I removed several of the sections that Airyn added. I don't think it's usual for us to include lists of reviews, other works by the author, etc. on pages for a particular work, unless there's something directly relevant to the encyclopedia reader about said reviews or other works. Is there some significance to those that I missed?

I could see that 4 of the 6 reviews were from the ISBN lookup page, so I figured they would be covered via inclusion of the external link. I left the foreign language edition list in because I couldn't tell where that information came from. Airyn, if you have a source for that similar to isfdb.org, maybe you would consider removing that list from the article and replacing it with an external link? [[Special:Contributions/Mord|Mord]] 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

:I agree with you that the other works shouldn't be included; I also think on the reviews you don't want a list of reviews but what is worthwhile is a "Reception" section detailed what people thought of the good. (It's generally good but has some errors and makes some assumptions, I guess would be the general thrust.)
:It's been a very long time since I looked at this article, but what struck me is why we even have an inconsistencies and errors section. There is no referencing or backing of it in any kind; we can't "defend" the wiki's claims here on the inconsistencies/errors as they are own research without any referencing. I appreciate it is not a big thing but does probably need looking at. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:07, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

== Errors and criticism ==

This section on potential errors is useful, as there is no official errata page for the book (unlike the one for Hammond and Scull's Reader's Companion).

I believe Airyn was the main contributor. As a newcomer to editing this wiki and still inexperienced, I want to avoid making disruptive changes. While checking the editions I own (1981 printing and 2001 revised edition), I could not verify several of the listed issues. They may appear in other printings.

Adding brief notes on which edition each item affects would make the section more reliable and easier for others to verify or expand.

I would be glad to help organize it, but I would prefer to connect with Airyn or anyone familiar with these points first to avoid duplicating effort.

One small suggestion: a more neutral title like "Textual Notes and Variants" or "Edition Differences and Corrections" might better reflect the section's purpose.

Thanks to all contributors. [[User:Algathrim|"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."]] ([[User talk:Algathrim|talk]]) 05:22, 6 January 2026 (UTC)
: I have the 1992 edition, if you wish to compare notes. [[User:Calion|Calion]] ([[User talk:Calion|talk]]) 20:08, 6 January 2026 (UTC)

Talk:The Atlas of Middle-earth

2025-11-25T18:47:01Z

Calion: Undo revision 428229 by Calion (talk)

Talk:The Atlas of Middle-earth

2025-11-21T03:55:34Z

Calion: /* Gondolin Error */ new section

==Oakbottom==
I added that one to Oatbarton some time ago, but can't find reference anymore. It's spelled correctly on 70-1.

Also useful might be the inclusion of [[Tarnost]] on pp 88-9, and the inclusion of "Sackville" as a town name (70-1). And maybe something about "things that are now shown to be incorrect", like Hardbottle. Fonstad placed it in the SF, but [[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings|Nomenclature]] placed it in the NF. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:56, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

:I am not aware of these, so I would love it if you could make the additions. Also, I am afraid if the article is a bit too negative. I really love this book. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:27, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

::Maybe a rewrite is necessary. I don't like articles that have a bulk of text first and their first section header at the bottom. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:41, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

==Third edition==

Did the 3rd edition add anything new or was it just a reprint? --[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 15:28, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

:I think a reprint but the TolkienBooks.net might have a better idea. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:59, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
:: Yup, that's what I thought, too. It was only done for the films. But I'll check with Tolkienbooks.net and emend here. --[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 12:15, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

== Lists of versions, bibliography, reviews, etc. ==

I made a comprehensive edit to everything that's been added since the last time I checked in on this article, and first want to say Airyn made additions of new inconsistencies and errors that greatly contribute to the article's value to a reader of the ''Atlas''.

The thing I wanted to open to discussion is this: I removed several of the sections that Airyn added. I don't think it's usual for us to include lists of reviews, other works by the author, etc. on pages for a particular work, unless there's something directly relevant to the encyclopedia reader about said reviews or other works. Is there some significance to those that I missed?

I could see that 4 of the 6 reviews were from the ISBN lookup page, so I figured they would be covered via inclusion of the external link. I left the foreign language edition list in because I couldn't tell where that information came from. Airyn, if you have a source for that similar to isfdb.org, maybe you would consider removing that list from the article and replacing it with an external link? [[Special:Contributions/Mord|Mord]] 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

:I agree with you that the other works shouldn't be included; I also think on the reviews you don't want a list of reviews but what is worthwhile is a "Reception" section detailed what people thought of the good. (It's generally good but has some errors and makes some assumptions, I guess would be the general thrust.)
:It's been a very long time since I looked at this article, but what struck me is why we even have an inconsistencies and errors section. There is no referencing or backing of it in any kind; we can't "defend" the wiki's claims here on the inconsistencies/errors as they are own research without any referencing. I appreciate it is not a big thing but does probably need looking at. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:07, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

== Gondolin Error ==

I think I’ve found an error not listed in the article. On p. 23 of the ''Atlas'', it shows Idril’s Secret Way going toward the north of Gondolin, towards Corinth Thoronath, also in the north. But on P. 105 (last line) of ''The Fall of Gondolin'' (ISBN 9780008302764), and again on p. 108 (l. 3 from bottom), it is indicated that the path leads toward the south. [[User:Calion|Calion]] ([[User talk:Calion|talk]]) 03:55, 21 November 2025 (UTC)