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https://tolkiengateway.net/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Ederchil Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en] 2026-06-07T14:05:06Z User contributions MediaWiki 1.41.1 https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Galdor_(elf_of_Gondolin)&diff=313054 Galdor (elf of Gondolin) 2020-05-14T13:19:34Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{disambig-more|Galdor|[[Galdor (disambiguation)]]}}<br /> {{elves infobox<br /> | image=[[File:Natalie Chen - Galdor.jpg|250px]]<br /> | name=Galdor<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=<br /> | titles=Lord of the [[House of the Tree]]<br /> | position=<br /> | location=[[Gondolin]]<br /> | affiliation=<br /> | language=<br /> | birth=<br /> | birthlocation=<br /> | rule=<br /> | death=<br /> | deathlocation=<br /> | age=<br /> | notablefor=<br /> | house=[[House of the Tree]]<br /> | parentage=<br /> | siblings=<br /> | spouse=<br /> | children=<br /> | gender=Male<br /> | height=<br /> | hair=<br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=<br /> | steed=<br /> }}<br /> '''Galdor''' was an [[Elves|Elf]], who lived in [[Gondolin]] during the [[First Age]], and was the leader of the [[Folk of the Tree]]. <br /> <br /> == History ==<br /> He was said to be the bravest Elf of Gondolin, save King [[Turgon]] himself.<ref>{{LT2|III}}</ref> He carried either a great [[clubs|club]] or spear, and wore green. After the [[Fall of Gondolin]] he fled southwards to the [[Mouths of Sirion]], after leading the scouts before the exiles on their escape. It is said he later returned to the [[Undying Lands]], and dwelt on [[Tol Eressëa]].<ref>{{LT2|IIIn}}</ref><br /> <br /> == Other versions of the Legendarium ==<br /> In late writings, [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] considered that Galdor of the Tree and [[Galdor of the Havens]] may have been the same,<ref>{{PM|Last}}, Glorfindel, note 1</ref> but ultimately rejected the notion. If Galdor had remained behind, he would either have completely rejected the call of the [[Valar]], and thus had fallen, or he would have had to leave and then return like [[Glorfindel]] did, which would make him a far more powerful person than his appearance in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' suggests.<ref>{{PM|Last}}, Glorfindel, note 3</ref> For this reason Tolkien speculated that "Galdor" was simply a common [[Sindarin]] name.<br /> <br /> {{references}}<br /> [[Category:Characters in The Book of Lost Tales]]<br /> [[Category:Gondolindrim]]<br /> <br /> [[de:Galdor (Hauptmann von Gondolin)]]<br /> [[fi:Galdor (Gondolin)]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=23_April&diff=312261 23 April 2020-04-27T09:57:21Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div><noinclude>{{month|April|hide31=yes}}<br /> Events that occurred on {{PAGENAME}}.<br /> ==On Earth==<br /> </noinclude><br /> * '''[[1907]]''' - Author [[Paul H. Kocher]] is born.<br /> * '''[[1925]] - ''[[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (edition)|Sir Gawain and the Green Knight]]'' is first published.'''<br /> * '''[[1944]]''' - [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] writes [[Letter 62]].<br /> * '''[[1957]]''' - Poet [[Roy Campbell]] dies.<br /> * '''[[1986]]''' - Voice actor [[Otto Preminger]] dies.<br /> * '''[[1987]]''' - ''[[Pictures under Discussion]]'' is published.<br /> * '''[[2010]]''' - Musician and composer [[Bo Hansson]] dies.<br /> * '''[[2020]]''' - Actor [[Bruce Allpress]] dies.<br /> <br /> ==In Arda==<br /> :''There are no known events for this day.''<noinclude>[[Category:Dates|114]][[fi:23. huhtikuuta]]</noinclude></div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=2020&diff=312260 2020 2020-04-27T09:57:16Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{year-header}}<br /> <br /> ==January==<br /> * '''[[3 January|3]]''' - [[Birthday Toast#Tolkien Society tradition|Birthday Toast]].<br /> * '''[[January 16|16]]''' - [[Christopher Tolkien]], third son of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], dies.<br /> * '''[[January 23|23]]''' - [[Barbara Remington]], cover artist on some American editions, dies.<br /> * '''?''' - ''[[Amon Hen 281]]'' is published.<br /> <br /> ==February==<br /> *'''[[February 7|7]]''' - [[Orson Bean]], actor who voiced [[Bilbo Baggins]], dies.<br /> *'''[[February 16|16]]''' - la BnF's exhibition "[http://www.bnf.fr Tolkien, voyage en Terre du Milieu]" closes.<br /> <br /> ==March==<br /> * '''[[25 March|25]]''' - [[Tolkien Reading Day]].<br /> <br /> ==April==<br /> * '''[[23 April|23]]''' - Actor [[Bruce Allpress]] dies.<br /> <br /> ==July==<br /> * '''[[4 July|4]]-[[5 July|5]]''' - [[The Tolkien Society]] Seminar at the Hilton, [[Leeds]].<br /> <br /> ==September==<br /> * '''[[3 September|3]] - [[6 September|6]]''' - [[Oxonmoot 2020]] at [http://www.s-annes.ox.ac.uk St Antony's College].<br /> {{years|2017|2018|2019|2020|2021|2022|2023}}<br /> [[Category:Years (real-world)]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=2020&diff=312259 2020 2020-04-27T09:56:53Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{year-header}}<br /> <br /> ==January==<br /> * '''[[3 January|3]]''' - [[Birthday Toast#Tolkien Society tradition|Birthday Toast]].<br /> * '''[[January 16|16]]''' - [[Christopher Tolkien]], third son of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], dies.<br /> * '''[[January 23|23]]''' - [[Barbara Remington]], cover artist on some American editions, dies.<br /> * '''?''' - ''[[Amon Hen 281]]'' is published.<br /> <br /> ==February==<br /> *'''[[February 7|7]]''' - [[Orson Bean]], actor who voiced [[Bilbo Baggins]], dies.<br /> *'''[[February 16|16]]''' - la BnF's exhibition "[http://www.bnf.fr Tolkien, voyage en Terre du Milieu]" closes.<br /> <br /> ==March==<br /> * '''[[25 March|25]]''' - [[Tolkien Reading Day]].<br /> <br /> ==April==<br /> * '''[[23 April|23]]''' - Actor [[Bruce Alpress]] dies.<br /> <br /> ==July==<br /> * '''[[4 July|4]]-[[5 July|5]]''' - [[The Tolkien Society]] Seminar at the Hilton, [[Leeds]].<br /> <br /> ==September==<br /> * '''[[3 September|3]] - [[6 September|6]]''' - [[Oxonmoot 2020]] at [http://www.s-annes.ox.ac.uk St Antony's College].<br /> {{years|2017|2018|2019|2020|2021|2022|2023}}<br /> [[Category:Years (real-world)]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=23_April&diff=312258 23 April 2020-04-27T09:56:20Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div><noinclude>{{month|April|hide31=yes}}<br /> Events that occurred on {{PAGENAME}}.<br /> ==On Earth==<br /> </noinclude><br /> * '''[[1907]]''' - Author [[Paul H. Kocher]] is born.<br /> * '''[[1925]] - ''[[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (edition)|Sir Gawain and the Green Knight]]'' is first published.'''<br /> * '''[[1944]]''' - [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] writes [[Letter 62]].<br /> * '''[[1957]]''' - Poet [[Roy Campbell]] dies.<br /> * '''[[1986]]''' - Voice actor [[Otto Preminger]] dies.<br /> * '''[[1987]]''' - ''[[Pictures under Discussion]]'' is published.<br /> * '''[[2010]]''' - Musician and composer [[Bo Hansson]] dies.<br /> * '''[[2020]]''' - Actor [[Bruce Alpress]] dies.<br /> <br /> ==In Arda==<br /> :''There are no known events for this day.''<noinclude>[[Category:Dates|114]][[fi:23. huhtikuuta]]</noinclude></div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Bruce_Allpress&diff=312257 Bruce Allpress 2020-04-27T09:55:53Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{actor<br /> | image=<br /> | name=Bruce Allpress<br /> | lifetime=[[25 August|August 25]], [[1930]]-[[23 April|April 23]], [[2020]]<br /> | played=[[Aldor (movie character)]]<br /> | film=''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''<br /> | played2=<br /> | film2=<br /> | imdb=[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0021600/ IMDb Profile]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> '''Bruce Allpress''' was a [[New Zealand]] actor. He played [[Aldor (movie character)|Aldor]] in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''.<br /> <br /> == External Links ==<br /> * {{WP|Bruce Allpress}}<br /> [[Category:Actors and actresses|Allpress, Bruce]]<br /> [[Category:New Zealand people|Allpress, Bruce]]<br /> [[Category:People by name|Allpress, Bruce]]<br /> [[de:Bruce Allpress]]<br /> [[fi:Bruce Allpress]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Houses_of_Healing&diff=311539 Houses of Healing 2020-03-20T19:48:46Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{disambig-two|the building in [[Minas Tirith]]|chapter of ''[[The Return of the King]]''|[[The Houses of Healing]]}}<br /> [[File:Ted Nasmith - Éowyn and Faramir.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Éowyn and Faramir'' (at the Houses of Healing)]]<br /> The '''Houses of Healing''' was an infirmary in [[Minas Tirith]].<br /> <br /> The Houses were surrounded by lawns and trees, set near to the Citadel-gate and the southward wall in the sixth circle of [[Minas Tirith]].<br /> <br /> The chief healer was the [[Warden of the Houses of Healing]].<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> When [[Faramir]] had been saved from the pyre of [[Denethor]], [[Gandalf]] and [[Beregond]] carried him in a bier to the Houses of Healing, with [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] following. Soon Gandalf and Pippin departed but [[Beregond]], after reporting to the chief of the Guard, went to the houses to serve and guard his captain.<ref>{{RK|V7}}</ref><br /> <br /> Later, Faramir was joined by [[Éowyn]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]], and others suffering from the [[Black Shadow]]. [[Ioreth]], one of the few women permitted to stay in the city during the siege due to her healing skills, wished aloud for a king since "''The hand of the king are the hands of a healer.''" Gandalf heard her and brought [[Aragorn]] into the Houses to tend the wounded. Using ''[[athelas]]'' Aragorn was able to revive Faramir, who called him his king, Éowyn, and Merry. When Aragorn left the houses he found many waiting for him at the door and after eating he spent most of the night tending the wounded.<ref>{{RK|V8}}</ref><br /> <br /> While the [[Army of the West]] marched to the [[Black Gate]], the Lady Éowyn arose in the Houses of Healing and begged the Warden to be discharged. The Warden brought her to Faramir, now able to walk in the gardens of the houses, where he dissuaded her from leaving. As the days passed their love bloomed and after the fall of [[Sauron]] it was in the Houses of Healing that they plighted their troth.<ref>{{RK|VI5}}</ref><br /> <br /> ==Portrayal in adaptations==<br /> [[File:BfME_II_Houses_of_Healing.png|thumb|right|200px|The Houses of Healing addition.]]<br /> '''[[2003]]: {{rotkee}}:'''<br /> :Two scenes in the Houses of Healing were included in the extended edition: "[[The Houses of Healing (scene)|The Houses of Healing]]" and "[[The Captain and the White Lady]]". The former depicts [[Aragorn]] healing [[Éowyn]], and features [[The Houses of Healing (soundtrack)|a song]] sung by [[Liv Tyler]].<ref>{{rotkee}}, "The Music of Middle-earth"</ref> [[Éomer]] was originally not included in the scene, but [[Karl Urban]] thought it would be fitting if he were there.<ref>[[J.W. Braun]], ''[[The Lord of the Films]]'', p. 162</ref><br /> <br /> '''[[2006]]: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br /> :The Houses of Healing is an addition to the fortress of the Men faction. At 1000, it is the second cheapest. It reduces hero revival time and cost by 20%. In the [[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king|expansion pack]], it also heals nearby allies.<br /> <br /> <br /> {{references}}<br /> [[Category:Buildings]]<br /> [[Category:Minas Tirith]]<br /> <br /> [[de:Häuser der Heilung]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo/geographie/villes_tours_et_forteresses/gondor/minas_tirith/maisons_de_guerison]]<br /> [[fi:Parannuksen tarha]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Shelob&diff=311538 Shelob 2020-03-20T19:47:29Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by Frodolives15 (talk) to last revision by LordoftheEarth</p> <hr /> <div>{{cleanup}}<br /> {{sources}}<br /> {{evil infobox<br /> | name=Shelob<br /> | image=[[File:John Howe - Sam and Shelob.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption="Sam and Shelob" by [[John Howe]]<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=Her Ladyship, She<br /> | titles=<br /> | position=<br /> | location=[[Nan Dungortheb]] ([[First Age]])<br/>[[Cirith Ungol]] (from [[Second Age]]) <br /> | affiliation=<br /> | language=<br /> | birth=[[First Age]]<br /> | birthlocation=<br /> | rule=<br /> | death=<br /> | deathlocation=<br /> | age=unknown<br /> | notablefor=Attacking [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]]<br /> | parentage=[[Ungoliant]]<br /> | siblings=<br /> | spouse=<br /> | children=[[Spiders]] of [[Mirkwood]]<br /> | race=[[Spiders|Spider]]<br /> | gender=Female<br /> | height=<br /> | hair=<br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=a stinger<br /> | steed=<br /> }}<br /> '''Shelob''' was a great spider-like creature akin to those of [[Nan Dungortheb]] in [[Beleriand]], the last offspring of the demonic [[Ungoliant]].<br /> <br /> ==History== <br /> Shelob was born during the [[Elder Days]], to the spider-like demon Ungoliant, who mated with (and devoured) the spider-creatures of the [[Ered Gorgoroth]]. She dwelt for many years in [[Nan Dungortheb]] with her countless brothers and sisters, even after Ungoliant ventured elsewhere.<br /> <br /> Shelob fled from ruin (apparently the [[War of Wrath]]) and established her lair high in the mountains of [[Mordor]] at least in the first centuries of the [[Second Age]], before [[Sauron]] claimed that land as his own. She mated with her offspring which she slew, and her descendants were to be seen in [[Ephel Dúath]] and [[Mirkwood]].<ref name=lair>{{TT|Lair}}</ref><ref name=guide/> <br /> <br /> Shelob fed off all living things, such as [[Elves]] and [[Men]], but as these became scarce in the area, she fed upon [[orcs]].<ref name=lair/> Sauron would sometimes send her captured prisoners for whom he had no further use and amuse himself watching how she played with her prey. Even though they did not communicate, Sauron and Shelob understood each other. She served as a secure guardian of the pass of [[Cirith Ungol]] to prevent any intruders from entering the dark land.<br /> <br /> [[File:Eytan Eylul Guler - Shelob and Sam.jpg|230px|thumb|left|Eytan Eylul Guler - ''Shelob and Sam'']]<br /> While looking for [[the One Ring]], [[Gollum]] was trapped by her, but he managed somehow to communicate with her and promised to bring her more food if she released him. Indeed, Gollum (whom the orcs of the [[Tower of Cirith Ungol]] call "Shelob's Sneak") brought [[Samwise Gamgee]] and [[Frodo Baggins]] near her Lair while seeking [[Mount Doom]].<br /> <br /> While put off by the [[Phial of Galadriel]] in the tunnels, she intercepted them again outside and attacked Frodo, stinging him into a death-like coma. Sam managed to defeat her by letting her impale herself upon [[Sting]] when she tried to crush him under her massive body and using all power of the Phial of Galadriel to blind her. Wounded, she fled to her lair and was not seen for the remainder of Lord of the Rings.<br /> <br /> Thinking Frodo dead, Sam took the One Ring from him and left his body behind, but discovered later that Shelob's venom was not intended to kill its victims but only to render them unconscious and keep their meat fresh.<br /> <br /> Shelob may have eventually died of starvation caused by her inability to hunt while blind.<ref name=guide>{{HM|Guide}}, p. 353, entry "Shelob"</ref><br /> <br /> ==Etymology==<br /> The name ''Shelob'' is derived from "lob", an archaic English word for spider. A variation, "cob" is the derivation of the word "cobweb". The first element, "she", simply mentions the spider's gender.<ref>{{L|70}}</ref><br /> <br /> [[Robert Foster]] mistakenly classified the name as [[Sindarin]], failing to provide a translation.<ref name=guide/><br /> <br /> ==Genealogy==<br /> {{familytree/start}}<br /> {{familytree| | | UNG | | | |UNG=[[Ungoliant]]</br><small>''fl. {{YT|1495}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree| |,|-|^|~|7| | |}}<br /> {{familytree| SHE | | NAN | |SHE='''SHELOB'''</br><small>''fl. {{TA|3019}}''</small>|NAN=''[[Spiders]] of [[Nan Dungortheb]]''}}<br /> {{familytree| |:| | | | | | |}}<br /> {{familytree| MIR | | | | | |MIR=''[[Spiders]] of [[Mirkwood]]''}}<br /> {{familytree/end}}<br /> <br /> ==Portrayal in adaptations==<br /> '''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:'''<br /> :Shelob was voiced by [[Jenny Lee]]. Lee had no dialogue, but hissed to convey Shelob's menace, then made a bubbling noise to suggest the passing of her poison into Frodo. Finally, she made a roaring sound during her fight with Sam to convey her pain when Sam's thrusts found their mark. <br /> <br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Shelob's face.jpg|thumb|right|Shelob's face from [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]].]]<br /> '''2003: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''''<br /> <br /> :Shelob can be seen to have a retractable venomous sting at the rear end between the spinnerets, resembling a wasp's sting. This is very much unlike real spiders which inject venom with their fangs but accurate relative to the novel. Shelob also appears to have a gaping mouth, whereas real spiders can ingest only liquid.<br /> <br /> :In the book, on the other hand, "clusters" of eyes are mentioned, which may suggest compound eyes like those of insects; the Shelob in the movie does ''not'' have compound eyes, which is appropriate. A hunting spider of the family [[wikipedia:Lycosidae|Lycosidae]],{{fact}} which Shelob most closely resembles, would have two large eyes facing forward, and a few smaller ones almost hidden below. The only spiders that can reasonably be said to have "clustered" eyes (though not true compound eyes) are the daddy long-legs spiders of the family Pholcidae, but Shelob does not resemble these rather spindly and fragile spiders in other aspects of her physique.<br /> <br /> '''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'''''<br /> :Shelob is a playable hero for the Goblins faction, and appears in the fifth level of the Evil Campaign, "Mirkwood", where she has apparently joined the [[Mouth of Sauron]] on his mission to take the [[Old Forest Road]]. During the level, Shelob can be used to recruit the Spiders of Mirkwood, as they are her children, and will obey her if she is sent to their nest. She also appears during the final mission, "Rivendell", alongside the other villains.<br /> <br /> '''2014: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'''''<br /> :Though unseen, Shelob is identified in the Appendices as the mother of the Ungol spiders that are encountered throughout Mordor. She is also referred to as the Spider Queen, a title that wasn't given to her in the book. An artefact, a "Crushed Ungol Egg", shows that Shelob initially lived in Mordor itself with Sauron and his servants, until it became apparent that Shelob would disobey Sauron, so he banished her to the pass of Cirith Ungol, and forbade her from laying any more eggs on his land. According to the "Ungol" article in the Appendices, Shelob has taken an interest in the recent events occurring in Mordor, though it is unclear to what extent. <br /> <br /> '''2017: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of War]]'''''[[File:Shadow of War - Shelob as a woman.png|thumb|right|Shelob as a woman from ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of War]]''.]]<br /> :Shelob is voiced by Pollyanna McIntosh, and plays a prominent role early in the game. This portrayal of Shelob is unique in that she is able to assume a fair form, as a raven-haired woman in a black dress. She can also project visions of the future into a person's mind. She ensnares the wraith of [[Celebrimbor]] and holds him prisoner at the start of the game. She releases him after Talion surrenders their newly-forged Ring of Power to her. After Minas Ithil is conquered by Sauron's forces, the Ringwraiths are sent to seize the Ring from her. After the Nine are driven away, she gives the Ring back to Talion and tells him to forge an army to conquer Mordor.<br /> : Reading her memories, which are found throughout Mordor, reveals a number of details of her life, including a romantic relationship she once had with Sauron.<br /> {{references}}<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> * [[:Category:Images of Shelob|Images of Shelob]]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br /> [[Category:Spirits]]<br /> [[Category:Spiders]]<br /> [[Category:Third Age characters]]<br /> [[Category:Evil]]<br /> [[Category:Servants of Sauron]]<br /> <br /> [[de:Kankra]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo/personnages/animaux/araignees/arachne]]<br /> [[fi:Lukitari]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Gandalf&diff=310524 Gandalf 2020-02-21T19:15:21Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by 79.71.69.207 (talk) to last revision by Mith</p> <hr /> <div>{{Countdown}}<br /> {{disambig-more|Gandalf|[[Gandalf (disambiguation)]]}}<br /> {{maiar infobox<br /> | name=Gandalf<br /> | image=[[File:Matt Stewart - Gandalf - A Light in the Dark.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption="A Light in the Dark" by [[:Category:Images by Matt Stewart|Matt Stewart]]<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=[[Gandalf/Names#The Grey|The Grey]], [[The White]], [[Gandalf/Names#Olórin|Olórin]], [[Gandalf/Names#Mithrandir|Mithrandir]], [[Gandalf/Names#Incánus|Incánus]], [[Gandalf/Names#Tharkûn|Tharkûn]], [[Gandalf/Names#The White Rider|The White Rider]], [[Gandalf/Names#Greyhame|Greyhame]], [[Gandalf/Names#Stormcrow|Stormcrow]], [[Gandalf/Names#Old Grey Beard|Old Grey Beard]], [[Gandalf/Names#Big Grey Beard|Big Grey Beard]], [[Gandalf/Names#The White Pilgrim|The White Pilgrim]], [[Gandalf/Names#Láthspell|Láthspell]]<br /> | titles=<br /> | position=<br /> | location=No fixed abode<br /> | affiliation=[[Wizards|Istari]] (Wizards)<br/>[[White Council]]<br/>[[Thorin and Company]]<br/>[[Fellowship of the Ring]]<br /> | language=<br /> | birth=[[Creation of the Ainur]]<br /> | birthlocation=<br /> | rule=<br /> | sailedwest=[[29 September]] {{TA|3021}}<br /> | sailedfrom=[[Grey Havens]]<br /> | age=<br /> | notablefor=<br /> | house=<br /> | parentage=<br /> | siblings=<br /> | gender=Male<br /> | height=5'6"<ref name="MB">{{HM|MB}}, page 49</ref><br /> | hair=Long white, silver beard<ref name="Meetings">{{FR|Meetings}}</ref><br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=Grey robes (later white), blue hat, grey scarf, black boots<ref name="Party"/><br /> | weapons=Staff<br/>[[Glamdring]]<br/>[[Narya]]<br /> | steed=[[Shadowfax]]<br /> }}<br /> {{Pronounce|Gandalf.mp3|Ardamir}}<br /> {{Pronounce|Quenya - Olórin.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br /> {{Quote|Gandalf was shorter in stature than the [[Elrond|other]] [[Glorfindel|two]]; but his long white hair, his sweeping silver beard, and his broad shoulders, made him look like some wise king of ancient legend. In his aged face under great snowy brows his eyes were set like coals that could suddenly burst into fire.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Many Meetings]]"}}<br /> <br /> '''Gandalf''' was one of the five [[Wizards|Istari]] sent to [[Middle-earth]] by the [[Valar]] in the [[Third Age]]. In [[Valinor]] he was known as Olórin. Gandalf was instrumental in bringing about the demise of [[Sauron]] in {{TA|3019}}, chiefly by encouraging others and dispensing his wisdom at pivotal times. Gandalf was originally robed in grey, and second to [[Saruman]] in the Order of [[wizards]]. After his fall in [[Moria]], Gandalf returned to Middle-earth as head of the Order, robed in white. Gandalf was noteworthy for his keen interest in [[Hobbits]].<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> The wisest of the Maiar, Gandalf was created by [[Ilúvatar]] before the [[Music of the Ainur]].<ref name="Ainu">{{S|Ainu}}</ref> At the beginning of Time, he was amongst the [[Ainur]] who entered into [[Eä]].<ref name="SVala">{{S|Vala}}</ref> In his "youth" he was known as '''''Olórin''''' and became one of the [[Maiar]] who served [[Manwë]], [[Varda]], [[Irmo]] and [[Nienna]] named. He was associated with light and fire, much like his peer Varda.<ref name=vala>{{S|IIc}}</ref> ? <br /> <br /> Yet his ways often took him to Nienna, from whom he learned pity and patience. <br /> He loved the [[Elves of Valinor|Elves]] but he walked [[unseen]] among them, or wore a [[fana]] that appeared like an [[Elves|Elf]], and sent them fair visions in their hearts that made them wiser. Throughout his existence, he followed the example of Nienna, he took pity on the sorrows of the [[Children of Ilúvatar]] and drove those who listened to him out of despair.<ref name=vala/> <br /> <br /> During the [[Third Age]], while [[Sauron]]'s 'dark spirit of malice' was increasing over [[Middle-earth]], the Valar chose the [[Istari]], missionaries from among the Maiar to go and help the [[Portal:Characters|peoples]]. [[Manwë]] selected Olórin, who, at first, did not wish to go, as he feared Sauron. However, Manwë said that it was all the more reason why he should go.<ref name="Istari">{{UT|13}}</ref> Furthermore, [[the One Ring]], the location of much of Sauron's power, presumably still existed somewhere in Middle-earth. <br /> <br /> Olórin submitted to the will of Manwë, and departed Valinor to [[Mithlond]] in the year {{TA|1000}}.<ref name="Istari"/> He arrived shortly after two of the Istari, [[Curumo]] and [[Aiwendil]], at about the same time the [[Necromancer]] appeared in [[Mirkwood]].<br /> <br /> ===Coming to Middle-earth===<br /> Olórin, like the other Wizards, took the shape of an old man. He was robed in grey and went about as a wanderer and counsellor. <br /> <br /> At Mithlond he was welcomed by [[Glorfindel]], his friend from Valinor, sent earlier on a similar mission, and [[Círdan]] the shipwright, who possessed [[Narya]], one of the [[Three Rings|Three]] Elven [[Rings of Power]]. Círdan divined in Olórin a sense of strength and power despite his appearance as a bent and aged old man. Círdan gave Narya to Olórin with a prediction of his future struggles with evil, and a promise that it would support and aid him in his labours. Then Círdan said "''But as for me, my heart is with the [[Belegaer|Sea]], and I will dwell by the grey shores until the last ship sails. I will await you.''"<ref name="ThirdAge">{{App|B2}}</ref><br /> <br /> [[File:John Howe - Gandalf the Grey.jpg|thumb|[[John Howe]] - ''Gandalf the Grey'']]<br /> Gandalf then began his sojourn in Middle-earth. Unlike Saruman, Gandalf did not take up a single permanent residence. Gandalf never went to the [[east]]<ref>"To the East I go not"</ref> and apparently restricted his activities to the [[Westlands]] of Middle-earth, where the remnants of the [[Dúnedain]] and the [[Eldar]] remained to oppose Sauron. He was known by many names during the long years he remained in Middle-earth: Elves named him ''[[Gandalf/Names#Mithrandir|Mithrandir]]'', the Grey Pilgrim, while the men of [[Arnor]] named him '''Gandalf''', which became his most common name. He was also known as ''[[Gandalf/Names#Incánus|Incánus]]'' (in the south), and ''[[Gandalf/Names#Tharkûn|Tharkûn]]'' to the [[Dwarves]].<ref name="Istari"/><br /> <br /> A legend says that Gandalf was given by [[Yavanna]] the [[Elfstone]] of [[Eärendil]], to bring to the peoples of Middle-earth as a token that the Valar had not forsaken them. He gave it to [[Galadriel]], and remarked prophetically that she would in turn pass it to an individual who would also be called [[Aragorn|Elessar]].<ref>{{UT|6}}</ref><br /> <br /> ===Early vigilance===<br /> Around {{TA|1100}},<ref name="ThirdAge"/> the Istari and the Eldar discovered that some evil entity resided at [[Dol Guldur]] in Mirkwood. Dark shapes moved in the forest and evil began to multiply in the woods. Some thought a [[Nazgûl]] had returned to torment the world, or some new evil was arising. Gandalf was unsure, and feared that perhaps Sauron himself might have returned.<ref name="Rings">{{S|Rings}}</ref><br /> [[File:John Howe - Pass the Doors of Dol Guldur.jpg|thumb|200px|left|[[John Howe]] - ''Pass the Doors of Dol Guldur'']]<br /> Over the next two hundred years the evil continued to grow, as well as the source directing it. [[Orcs]] were multiplying in the [[Misty Mountains]] and elsewhere. The [[Witch-king]], the mightiest of the Nazgûl, had built a fortress in [[Angmar]] in the Northern wastelands and waged unending war against the Kingdom of [[Arnor]]. Meanwhile [[Moria]] and [[Minas Ithil]] fell under a shadow, while other wars, plagues, and catastrophes occurred across Middle-earth. Gandalf went to Dol Guldur in {{TA|2063|n}} to discover its secret.<ref name="ThirdAge"/> An entity known only as the '[[Necromancer]]' fled before him preventing Gandalf from identifying him.<ref name="Rings"/> After Gandalf's incursion, the evil there seemed to desist, and its absence allowed for some centuries of calmness.<br /> <br /> That peaceful period was known as the [[Watchful Peace]] and lasted for almost four hundred years, but the Nazgûl had used this period to prepare for Sauron's return, in {{TA|2460|n}}.<ref name="ThirdAge"/> Realising the returning evil, the [[Wise]] formed the [[White Council]] three years later. [[Galadriel]], bearer of one of the Three Elven Rings and mighty among the Eldar, wished Gandalf to be the chief of the Council, but he refused the position wishing to set down no roots and to maintain his independence; Saruman took this place because of his vast knowledge.<ref name="Rings"/><br /> <br /> During his wanderings in [[Eriador]], Gandalf met and befriended the isolated and secretive people of the [[Hobbits]] in their country, [[The Shire]]. During the [[Long Winter]] of {{TA|2758|n}} Gandalf came to their aid.<ref name="ThirdAge"/> It was then when he witnessed and admired the pity and courage the humble Hobbits reserved in their hearts.<ref name="Erebor"/> <br /> <br /> When King [[Thráin|Thráin II]], a dwarf of the royal line of [[Lonely Mountain]], disappeared on journey to [[Erebor]], Gandalf looked for him. At some point after {{TA|2845|n}} he entered the abandoned city of Khazad-dûm. After his vain search the Wizard exited through the [[Doors of Durin]]; however this experience did not help him know how to open the doors from the outside.<ref name=journey>{{FR|Journey}}</ref><br /> <br /> In {{TA|2850|n}}, his quest led him once more to Dol Guldur, this time in secrecy.<ref name="ThirdAge"/> He found Thráin in the dungeons, who gave the Wizard his last possessions, the [[Thrór's Map|map]] and key to Erebor<ref name="Durin">{{App|Durin}}</ref>. Most importantly, he found that the Necromancer was no Nazgûl – it was Sauron himself, and he had taken [[Ring of Thrór|the last]] of the [[Seven Rings]] from the Dwarf King; Sauron was gathering the remaining [[Rings of Power]] and possibly searching for his lost [[The One Ring|One Ring]].<br /> <br /> Gandalf escaped Dol Guldur and returned to the White Council.<ref name="Rings"/> After relating his discoveries, he urged the council to attack Sauron while the One Ring was still lost and Sauron's power immature. But Saruman said that it was better to watch and wait; that the One Ring had long ago rolled from [[Anduin]] to the Sea. The majority of the council agreed with Saruman. [[Elrond]] Half-elven, a powerful member of the council, later privately told Gandalf he had a foreboding that the Ring would be found, and that the war to end the [[Ages|Age]] was coming. Indeed, he added, he feared that it would end in darkness and despair. Gandalf encouraged him, saying there were many "strange chances," and that, "''help oft shall come from the hands of the weak''". Gandalf did not yet realise that Saruman now wanted the ring for himself and was secretly searching for it along the banks of river Anduin.<br /> <br /> ===The Quest for Erebor===<br /> Gandalf would visit the Shire occasionally and participate in the [[Midsummer]]-eve parties of the [[Old Took]] where he impressed young Hobbits with his fireworks, and his stories about [[Dragons]], [[Orcs#Orcs and Goblins|Goblins]] and princesses.<ref name="Erebor"/> He was thus known to be "responsible for so many quiet lads and lasses going off into the Blue for mad adventures". He also met a relatively adventurous Hobbit named [[Bilbo Baggins]] although he was far from "adventuresome."<ref name="Party"/><br /> <br /> Gandalf was concerned about the weak state of the North. [[Smaug]] the [[Dragons|Dragon]] had destroyed both the [[Kingdom under the Mountain]] and the town of [[Dale]], and Gandalf feared that [[Sauron]] might use the desolation around Erebor to regain the northern passes in the mountains and the old lands of Angmar. Gandalf knew that exiled Dwarf [[King of Durin's Folk]] [[Thorin Oakenshield]] planned to battle against Smaug, but he knew that it would not be enough. In {{TA|2941|n}},<ref name="ThirdAge"/> while staying the night in [[Bree]], Gandalf happened across the Dwarf King.<ref name="Erebor">{{UT|Erebor}}</ref> Thorin initiated conversation; he had been having a strange feeling urging him to seek Gandalf. Gandalf was intrigued, for he had thought to seek Thorin as well. They found they were taking the same road for a while (Thorin passing through [[the Shire]] on his way to the [[Blue Mountains|Ered Luin]]), and they agreed to travel together. Thorin wanted advice, and Gandalf in turn wanted to discuss the Dragon Smaug with Thorin.<br /> [[File:David T. Wenzel - Good Morning Mr. Baggins.jpg|thumb|[[David T. Wenzel]] - ''Good Morning Mr. Baggins'']]<br /> Ultimately, Gandalf concocted a plan wherein Thorin could destroy Smaug and recover his family fortune, albeit with a "burglar" of Gandalf's own choosing. Gandalf had a feeling that a Hobbit should be involved, and he remembered Bilbo Baggins. At first he found only [[Holman Cotton]] as Bilbo had left on the occasion of the [[Yestare|Elven new year]], something that persuaded Gandalf that Bilbo was the right person for the job.<ref name="Erebor"/> He visited Bilbo later, bringing along the kinsmen of Thorin.<ref name="Party">{{H|Party}}</ref> In the end Gandalf convinced the reluctant Baggins to become a burglar for Thorin. Gandalf then accompanied [[Thorin and Company]] to [[Rivendell]]. During the journey Gandalf was instrumental in saving the travellers' lives from several calamities.<br /> <br /> Gandalf saved them from a trio of [[Stone-trolls]], and later obtained the legendary sword [[Glamdring]] from their [[Trolls|Troll]]-hoard; Gandalf bore it thenceforth.<ref name="Mutton">{{H|Mutton}}</ref> He also helped Thorin and Company through the [[Misty Mountains]]; when unknowingly they camped in the [[Front Porch]] of the [[Goblin-town]] the Goblins captured the whole company except Gandalf, who surprised them much later, killing the [[Great Goblin]] and then leading the Dwarves to the exit.<ref name="Hill">{{H|Hill}}</ref> It was during this time that Bilbo obtained a "magic ring".<ref name="Riddles">{{H|Riddles}}</ref> Bilbo initially claimed he "won" it from the creature "[[Gollum]]" while the company was under the Misty Mountains.<ref name="Pan">{{H|Pan}}</ref> The ring conferred invisibility on Bilbo when he wore it, and he kept it secret from Gandalf for some time. <br /> [[File:Darrell Sweet - The Lord of the Eagles.jpg|thumb|left|[[Darrell Sweet]] - ''The Lord of the Eagles'']]<br /> On their escape out, the Company was saved by the [[Eagles]] of the Misty Mountains; Gandalf once had healed the [[Great Eagle]] from a poisoned wound, and thenceforth they became friends. The Eagles picked them up to their eyrie, and the next day they dropped them to the other side of the Mountains.<ref name="Pan"/><br /> [[File:Angus McBride - Dol Guldur.jpg|thumb|[[Angus McBride]] - ''Dol Guldur'']]<br /> Gandalf then sought the hospitality of [[Beorn]], persuading him to welcome and host the whole Company in his [[Beorn's Hall|hall]]. But then he left the quest prior to its completion; after leading the Company to the outskirts of the [[Forest Gate]], he gave them some final advice (but little did he know that the lands had changed by then) before they'd enter [[Mirkwood]], and went to attend other obligations.<ref>{{H|Queer}}</ref> The [[White Council]] had met under the gravest of circumstances: Sauron's vast power was returning, even without his Ring. Gandalf at last convinced the Council to attack Dol Guldur, to which even Saruman agreed (as by now he feared Sauron as a rival, and wished to delay his search for the Ring). Gandalf joined his peers in assailing [[Dol Guldur]], ridding [[Mirkwood]] of the Necromancer's presence, who fled to [[Mordor]].<ref name="AppB2">{{App|B2}}</ref> When he was about to finish his task, news about what happened to Thorin's Company in Mirkwood reached him, and realised that the instructions he gave did not help them; they had lost their way, and then vanished from the imprisonment of the [[Silvan Elves|Wood-elves]], who had captured them. He was anxious to get back to them as soon as possible.<ref>{{H|Welcome}}</ref><br /> <br /> Meanwhile Thorin's quest was successful: Erebor was retaken and Smaug was killed,<ref name="Fire">{{H|Fire}}</ref> but when Gandalf finally arrived to the area, he found the [[Dwarves of Erebor]] and [[Dwarves of the Iron Hills|the Iron Hills]] preparing for an attack by the [[Lake-men]] and the [[Elves of Mirkwood]]. He was with [[Bard]] and [[Thranduil]] and revealed his presence trying to reason with Thorin. When the attack was beginning, Gandalf halted them, to warn that the [[Orcs]] and [[Wargs]] were coming to claim the treasure. He invited [[Dáin Ironfoot]] for council, and soon Dwarves, Elves and Men formed an alliance, and defeated the [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains]] in the [[Battle of Five Armies]].<ref name="Burst">{{H|Burst}}</ref> <br /> <br /> King Thorin was mortally wounded and after his funeral and the reestablishment of Erebor under Dáin, Bilbo and Gandalf followed their way back; they celebrated [[Yule]] at Beorn's, and then returned to Rivendell, where he discussed with [[Elrond]] the events of Dol Guldur and the Lonely Mountain. Gandalf had accomplished his immediate goal, which was to destroy Smaug, who could have been used to disastrous effect by Sauron. A large number of Orcs and Wargs also were killed in the North, removing threats to Rivendell and Lothlórien.<ref name="Erebor"/> But they both agreed that it would be better if the Necromancer were banished from the world altogether.<ref name="H19">{{H|19}}</ref><br /> <br /> As Gandalf and Bilbo passed by the site of their former encounter with the stone-trolls, they made sure to recover the gold of the troll-hoard they had buried.<ref name="H19"/> <br /> <br /> Gandalf, for his part, found himself amazed by the hobbit; until then the wise had paid no attention to hobbits and knew little of them. For the rest of his sojourn in Middle-earth, Gandalf took a special interest in hobbits, and particularly in the Baggins family.<br /> <br /> ===The Return of the Shadow===<br /> Despite the Council's hopes, Sauron was not weakened by this attack. He had foreseen the move that drove him from Mirkwood, and his retreat was but a feint. Ten years after the attack, Sauron declared himself openly in Mordor in {{TA|2951|n}} and rebuilt the [[Barad-dûr]]. The White Council met for one last time in {{TA|2953|n}} to debate about the [[Rings of Power]]. Saruman quieted his peers claiming to have the knowledge that the One Ring was lost in the [[Belegaer]]. After their meeting, Saruman, jealous and afraid of Gandalf, set spies to watch all his movements; this would affect the peaceful Hobbits, as Saruman thus discovered the existence and noted Gandalf's interest in the Shire, and started sending agents in [[Bree]] and the [[Southfarthing]].<ref name="ThirdAge"/><br /> <br /> Meanwhile Sauron began reassembling his forces for the final blow against the hated West. [[Easterlings]] from [[Khand]] and beyond the [[Sea of Rhûn]], joined by men from [[Harad]] reinforced his stronghold in [[Mordor]]; Orcs, trolls, and other foul beasts were multiplying while his minions were searching the Anduin for any sign of his precious One Ring.<br /> <br /> Gandalf met [[Aragorn]], the hidden [[Heir of Isildur]] in {{TA|2956|n}}, and soon became friends with him. From that point on Aragorn and Gandalf often worked together towards a common end - the defeat of Sauron.<br /> <br /> [[File:Darrell Sweet - The Arrival of Gandalf.jpg|thumb|right|200px|[[Darrell Sweet]] - ''The Arrival of Gandalf'']] <br /> During this period Gandalf visited the Shire frequently, especially his friend Bilbo Baggins, and his younger cousin, [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]]. He noted Bilbo's unusual youthfulness, despite his advancing age; the suspicious "[[The One Ring|magic ring]]" that Bilbo had acquired during his adventure began to weigh on his mind. Gandalf recalled the deceit Bilbo used in originally claiming it for his own-- Bilbo had later admitted to stealing it from [[Gollum]]. Gandalf could see that Bilbo was now very preoccupied with the ring. Such un-hobbitlike behaviour aroused his suspicions. In {{TA|3001|n}} he organised for him the [[Bilbo's Farewell Party]], and before leaving the Shire, he convinced Bilbo to leave the Ring for Frodo. He then emphatically warned Frodo not to use it; Gandalf had begun to suspect that the "magic ring" was indeed a ring of power.<br /> <br /> Keen now to find out more about Gollum, he sought Aragorn's help to capture him, a quest that lasted for years all around [[Rhovanion]] and the confines of [[Mordor]].<ref name="ThirdAge"/> Studying the records in [[Minas Tirith]], he found the [[Scroll of Isildur]] and pieced together the missing history of the One Ring; on his way back to the Shire he got word from the [[Galadhrim]] that Aragorn had finally captured Gollum and he went to [[Mirkwood]] to meet him. For days he interrogated him in order to verify what he already knew, in {{TA|3017|n}}. A great fear came over him when he learned that Gollum had been to the Barad-dûr. Sauron had tortured Gollum and learned not only of the "magic ring", but also the names "Shire" and "Baggins". Gandalf now returned in haste to the Shire, certain that Frodo's ring was not simply a ring of power: it was the One Ruling Ring of Sauron.<ref name=council>{{FR|Council}}</ref><br /> <br /> ===The War of the Ring===<br /> After Gandalf’s fears were confirmed, he returned to the Shire and advised Frodo to leave as soon as possible, promising to return before a farewell party for Bilbo in autumn of that year ({{TA|3018|n}}), and to escort him to Rivendell. Gandalf also told Frodo about the creature Gollum, to which Frodo exclaimed that he should have been killed. Gandalf speculated that perhaps Gollum would have a part to play before the end, and in any case, it was not for them to decide who should live and who should die.<br /> <br /> While in the Shire, he had a sense of foreboding and in the aftermath of [[Sauron's attack on Osgiliath]] he heard disturbing news about war in [[Gondor]] and a [[Black Shadow]]. He started wandering around [[Eriador]] hearing news from the refugees who had a fear they couldnot speak about, until he met [[Radagast]] who brought a message of [[Saruman]] that he must seek him at once; and a warning that the [[Ringwraiths]] are looking for the Shire.<ref name=council/> He went to [[the Prancing Pony]] at [[Bree]]. Believing that he would not be able to return to Frodo in time, he wrote [[Gandalf's letter|a letter]], urging him to move as soon as possible for Rivendell, and seek someone "Strider" whose real name is Aragorn, with a [[The Riddle of Strider|riddle]] to identify him; Gandalf would then try to catch up with them when available. He also instructed [[Barliman Butterbur]] to send the letter to [[Hobbiton]] and to expect a Mr. [[Baggins]] that will come under the name of "[[Mr. Underhill]]". He left the inn, but Barliman would forget to send the letter.<ref>{{FR|Strider}}</ref><br /> <br /> ====The Treachery of Saruman====<br /> [[File:Ted Nasmith - Gandalf Escapes Upon Gwaihir.jpg|thumb|left|200px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Gandalf Escapes Upon Gwaihir'']]<br /> Soon thereafter Gandalf arrived at Isengard. At their meeting, Saruman at last revealed his desire for the One Ring. He offered to his "''old friend and helper''" that they take the Ring for themselves and seize power from Sauron. Gandalf rejected this with horror, and was imprisoned by Saruman on the pinnacle of [[Orthanc]]. [[Gwaihir]], chief of the Eagles, soon arrived and helped Gandalf escape. Gandalf knew he must return quickly to the Shire, as Frodo (and the ring) were in grave danger from both Sauron's Nazgûl and now Saruman's treacherous desire for the ring.<br /> <br /> Gandalf hurriedly went to [[Rohan]], desiring to find a strong steed; there he obtained [[Shadowfax]] from King [[Théoden]], who later resented the gift. This lord of horses and Gandalf forged a special bond, and Gandalf made quick use of Shadowfax's incredible strength and endurance.<br /> <br /> Gandalf sped to the Shire. Fortunately, Frodo had already left the Shire without waiting for Gandalf, and was seeking the refuge of [[Rivendell]]. Upon arrival Gandalf learned that the Nazgûl, arrayed as [[Nazgûl|Black Riders]], had been searching the area. Dismayed, he set out for Bree; Barliman apologised to Gandalf for forgetting to send the letter, worried that the hobbits had left with Strider, the suspicious [[Rangers of the North|Ranger]]. But for Gandalf this was a hope which far exceeded his expectations. After congratulating a puzzled Barliman, and blessing his beer, Gandalf then made for [[Weathertop]], a high point in the region, to observe the surrounding area. <br /> [[File:Ted Nasmith - Fire on Weathertop.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Fire on Weathertop'']]<br /> There he was assaulted at night by the Nazgûl, but drove them off after a great battle of light and flame. These phenomena were seen by Aragorn and the hobbits from afar, without knowing it was Gandalf. Before leaving, he marked some stones with the [[cirth|certh]] G for them to find. <br /> <br /> He then went directly to Rivendell, where he welcomed Glorfindel, Aragorn and the hobbits upon their arrival several days later, Frodo being sorely wounded but still in possession of the ring.<br /> <br /> ====The Fellowship of the Ring====<br /> Elrond called a [[Council of Elrond|council]] after Frodo was healed to consider the momentous decision regarding the ring. By chance, representatives of most of the free peoples happened to be in Rivendell already for various reasons. Elrond and Gandalf advised that the Ring should be destroyed in the fires of [[Orodruin]], where it was made. Others dissented or objected, but eventually submitted to Gandalf's plan. Ultimately, Elrond appointed the Fellowship of the Ring as nine walkers, numerically set against Sauron's nine Nazgûl. The relatively small number reflected the realisation by Elrond and the other council members that the quest of Mount Doom would not rely upon strength of arms, but on stealth and good fortune. Gandalf was chosen to lead the company, which included [[Aragorn]], [[Boromir]], [[Legolas]] the Elf, [[Gimli]] the Dwarf, and the hobbits Frodo Baggins, [[Samwise Gamgee]], [[Peregrin Took]], and [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]].<br /> <br /> Several obstacles stood in the company's way. The vast [[Misty Mountains]] had to be crossed, for Gandalf was determined not to lead the company near [[Isengard]]. Gandalf decided to take a southern route to the [[Redhorn Pass]] and there to cross the [[Misty Mountains]] near [[Caradhras]], thereby traversing the mountain range and avoiding Isengard. When this attempt failed due to a terrible storm he then decided to take the Fellowship through the ruins of Moria, where the remains of the great Dwarf city of [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]] was now a labyrinth of tunnels under the mountains. Others in the company were loathe enter the maze, as it was now the lair of orcs and something known only as "Durin's Bane".<br /> <br /> [[File:Ted Nasmith - At the Bridge.jpg|thumb|left|200px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''At the Bridge'']]At the [[Doors of Durin]] on the west side of the mountains, Gandalf, after some delay, spoke the password and led the company into the dark. Having been in Moria on an earlier perilous errand, he was somewhat familiar with the underground passages. Eventually the party came to the [[Chamber of Mazarbul]], where Gandalf read the [[Book of Mazarbul|Book of Records]], which revealed the fate of [[Balin]], the leader of an ill-fated attempt to re-colonise Moria. Soon after, the party was attacked by orcs, and forced to flee the chamber. By then Gandalf was well aware of their location, and he led the party quickly towards the eastern exit.<br /> <br /> Unfortunately [[Durin's Bane]] caught up to the group at the [[Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]. Gandalf and Legolas immediately realised what it was: a [[Balrogs|Balrog]] of [[Morgoth]], a servant of the first dark lord. In a spectacular display of bravery Gandalf faced the demon and broke the bridge both stood upon, leaving the beast to fall into a seemingly bottomless chasm. But the Balrog's whip lashed out, and grasped Gandalf by the knees, causing him to fall into the pit. While falling, Gandalf shouted "Fly, you fools" and vanished into the abyss.<ref name=bridge>{{FR|Bridge}}</ref><br /> <br /> [[File:John Howe - Zirak-zigil.jpg|thumb|right|200px|[[John Howe]] - ''Zirak-zigil'']]Yet Gandalf did not die; he and the Balrog fought long in the bowels and deep places of Arda. After restless pursuit over the course of eight days, Gandalf and the beast finally came to the summit of the [[Endless Stair]] upon the peak of [[Celebdil]], where he [[Battle of the Peak|fought the demon]] for two days and nights. The Balrog had burst into flame anew when it exited the stairs; ice, wind, and smoke swirled about them as they duelled. Gandalf used his last measure of strength to slay the Balrog, throwing him down the mountainside in ruin. Gandalf's spirit then left his body, having sacrificed himself to save the Fellowship.<br /> <br /> ====Gandalf the White====<br /> But Gandalf's spirit did not depart Middle-earth forever at this time. As the only one of the five Istari to stay true to his errand, Olórin/Gandalf was sent back to mortal lands by [[Ilúvatar|Eru]], and he became Gandalf once again. Yet, as he was now the sole emissary of the Valar to Middle-earth, he was granted the power to "reveal" more of his inner [[Maiar]] strength. This naked power that lay within him was seldom used during the remainder of his time in Middle-earth, as his mission was essentially the same: to support and succour those who opposed Sauron. Nevertheless, when Gandalf's wrath was kindled his "unveiled" strength was such that few of Sauron's servants could withstand him.<br /> [[File:Ted Nasmith - Gandalf Returns.jpg|thumb|left|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Gandalf Returns'']]<br /> As he lay on the mountaintop, the great eagle [[Gwaihir]] came up and bore him to [[Lothlórien]], where he was clothed and replenished, and given a new staff by [[Galadriel]]. Gandalf soon learned that Frodo and Sam had left the Fellowship and were attempting the quest of Mount Doom alone. As Frodo was beyond his assistance now, Gandalf promptly went south to [[Fangorn Forest]], where he met the [[Three Hunters]]: [[Aragorn]], [[Legolas]], and [[Gimli]], and gave them messages from Galadriel. Then he called forth [[Shadowfax]], and rode with them to [[Edoras]]. There he found that Saruman's spy [[Gríma|Gríma Wormtongue]] had deceived King [[Théoden]] into hopeless impotence. Gandalf quickly deposed Wormtongue and encouraged Théoden to ride west to war against [[Saruman]]. Gandalf by now was keenly aware that the great war to end the age was beginning; if Saruman conquered Rohan then Gondor would be alone with enemies on all sides.<br /> <br /> At Gandalf's encouragement King Théoden went west to Helm's Deep where he was quickly besieged; Gandalf then searched for [[Erkenbrand]] and the forces of the [[Westfold]], which he later found and led to the Deep, thus breaking the siege. Meanwhile, the [[Ents]] (along with the hobbits Merry and Pippin) moved against Saruman and sent [[Huorns]] against the orcs, resulting in the utter ruin of the outer walls of [[Isengard]] and the complete annihilation of Saruman's orcs. After the battle, Gandalf went to [[Orthanc]] with Théoden, Aragorn, and a small group. There Saruman rejected Gandalf's offer of forgiveness with contempt. Gandalf then broke Saruman's staff and cast him from the Order and the Council. Gandalf imposed a strict watch on Isengard by the Ents and then advised King Théoden to ride to Gondor's defence as soon as possible. The wizard's mind had already turned to Gondor and the coming climactic battle in the east.<br /> <br /> ====The Siege of Minas Tirith====<br /> [[File:Donato Giancola - The White Rider.jpeg|thumb|right|200px|[[Donato Giancola]] - ''The White Rider'']] As a 'reward' for Pippin, who had foolishly gazed into a [[Palantíri|palantír]], Gandalf took the Hobbit with him to [[Minas Tirith]], the last bastion of the west. Soon after arriving, Gandalf confronted [[Denethor|Denethor II]], the [[Ruling Steward]], and learned that he was near despair over the death of his eldest son, [[Boromir]]. Pippin entered the Steward's service in payment of the debt that he and Merry owed, the death of Boromir. Ostensibly they were allies, but the Steward treated him with disrespect and suspicion. When [[Faramir]], the Steward's younger son, returned from [[Osgiliath]] and was attacked by Nazgûl, Gandalf upon Shadowfax drove them away by revealing the power within him; later Faramir told him that Frodo and Sam were still alive and headed towards Mordor.<br /> <br /> The city was soon besieged by a vast force from Mordor, led by the [[Witch-king]]. An ill-advised counter attack resulted in Faramir receiving a wound from a poisoned dart; he lay near death inside the Tower. Still, Gandalf encouraged the men of Minas Tirith to have hope, and dispelled the fear of the Ringwraiths by his very presence. But Sauron's catapults hurled flaming bolts upon the city; soon the first circle of the city burned unchecked. Denethor now lost all heart as the city burned and his only remaining son hovered near death; he abandoned his leadership of the city. Gandalf then took it upon himself to direct the defense of the city. When the gigantic ram [[Grond (battering ram)|Grond]] destroyed the ancient entrance to the city, Gandalf placed himself alone at the ruined gateway. The Witch-king then appeared in the midst of the blasted gate upon a black horse and threatened Gandalf with death; but Gandalf did not move — seated upon Shadowfax he defied the mightiest of Sauron's minions. However, the stand-off ended inconclusively, as the morning arrived along with the host of the Rohirrim. Hearing the horns of the Riders of Rohan, the Witch-king departed.<br /> <br /> But Gandalf did not pursue his foe, for Pippin brought him news that Denethor was about to commit suicide in the high tower, burning himself and his son Faramir on a pyre like the heathen Kings of old. Gandalf rushed to stop this madness and was able to save Faramir, but not Denethor, whose despair and grief had overcome his mind. Gandalf also learned how it was that Denethor's will had been broken: Denethor clutched a palantír in his hands as he burned. Clearly Denethor had been using the stone's special properties for some time — extending his vision far beyond those of mannish eyes, but also wrestling in thought with Sauron. And even though Sauron could not completely overwhelm Denethor's mind, his courage was daunted by knowledge of the vast might of Mordor. Thus the shadow entered into the capital of Gondor.<br /> <br /> Nevertheless, and against all hope, the siege was broken. [[Éowyn]] of Rohan and the hobbit Merry defeated the Witch-king, whose last wail was heard by many as he was reduced to impotence. Soon after, Lord Aragorn arrived with a large valour of men from the southern fiefs upon a captured pirate fleet from Umbar. The forces of the men of the west then utterly defeated Sauron's attack against Minas Tirith, relieving the city and killing virtually all of the invaders. Gandalf's carefully laid plans and words of wisdom, along with acts of heroism not seen since the elder days, had defeated Sauron's first move.<br /> <br /> ====The Last Battle====<br /> But the attack against Minas Tirith was only a part of Sauron's plan to devastate the west and make himself the ruler of Middle-earth. Other armies moved in the north against [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]] and the Kingdom of Thranduil, as well as against Lothlórien and other points along the [[Anduin]]. Still commanding vast armies of orcs and men, the Dark Lord soon would move against Gondor again; the remnants of the Edain and their allies had little hope against his almost limitless resources. <br /> <br /> In Minas Tirith, Gandalf was selected by Aragorn, Imrahil, and Éomer (the remaining lords of the west) to be their leader in the coming final battles. This would be the culmination of Gandalf's efforts in Middle-earth. Fully aware that the west would stand or fall on the outcome of Frodo's mission, he advised the lords to drive north to the Morannon, thereby drawing Sauron's eye away from Frodo's likely location. This plan surely would result in a catastrophic loss for the outnumbered army, but it gave Frodo a chance to achieve the quest of Mount Doom.<br /> <br /> Led by Gandalf and Aragorn, the army of the West crossed the Anduin and marched north, pausing occasionally to announce their coming and to dispatch small numbers of men to lesser tasks. Upon arriving at the Black Gate, the forces halted and prepared for battle. As they ordered their companies, the foul [[Mouth of Sauron]] rode forth to parley with them; he revealed Frodo's [[Mithril#The Mithril Coat|''mithril''-coat]] and Arnor-blade and implied that their owner was captured and tortured. The emissary of Sauron then proposed that the forces of the west surrender; Gandalf however was undaunted, and, seizing his friend's belongings, rejected Sauron's offer. In shock, the Mouth of Sauron turned back towards the Black Gate, which slowly opened to reveal a vast army of orcs and trolls advancing on the lords of the west. Sauron's trap was sprung.<br /> <br /> Yet Sauron himself became the victim of Gandalf's trap. Unbeknownst to all, Frodo and Sam had succeeded in scaling Mount Doom and even as the Battle of Morannon began Frodo stood at the Crack of Doom. But the power and lure of the ring finally overcame his will and he placed the ring upon his finger, claiming it as his own. Immediately the Nazgûl were summoned by their lord, as he in terror realised his blunder: his enemies intended to destroy his ring. <br /> <br /> [[File:Ted Nasmith - The Shadow of Sauron.jpg|thumb|right|200px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''The Shadow of Sauron'']]But Gandalf's foresight proved accurate again as the creature Gollum, who had been doggedly following the Ring-bearer, seized the ring from Frodo, and, while celebrating his reunion with "his precious," unwittingly fell into the fires of Orodruin. The ring was unmade as the fiery mountain erupted. The tower of [[Barad-dûr]] and the [[Towers of the Teeth]] began to collapse, their foundations crumbling, the Ring-wraiths burned out like shooting stars, and Sauron was reduced to a mere shadow of malice, never to torment the world again.<br /> <br /> With Sauron gone, his forces scattered like frightened insects; the Men of the West now set upon them with fury. Gandalf announced the success of the [[Ring-bearer]] and the end of Sauron; the quest had been fulfilled. Seeing that victory was achieved, Gandalf then mounted on [[Gwaihir]] the Eagle for a third time, and set out to see if Frodo and Samwise had survived the tumults of [[Mount Doom]]. To his great relief, the two were found on the slopes of Orodruin, clinging to life amid the volcanic eruptions. The great quest was over.<br /> <br /> ===End of the Order===<br /> In Minas Tirith, Gandalf and the remaining members of the Fellowship reunited. At the coronation of King [[Aragorn|Elessar]], Gandalf (at Aragorn’s request) set the crown upon the King’s head, and declared "''Now come the days of the King, and may they be blessed while the thrones of the [[Valar]] endure!''". Thus Gandalf ushered in the new age of men.<br /> <br /> After the coronation and wedding of Aragorn to [[Arwen]], Gandalf left with the rest of the remaining Fellowship on the journey home. For Gandalf, it was his last long journey in Middle-earth. His errand to Arda had been fulfilled; Sauron had been defeated. He said farewell to his friends one by one until at last only the four Hobbits remained at his side. At the borders of the Shire he, too, turned away. He left the Hobbits to settle with the Shire, for the shattered pieces of evil still remaining in the world were no longer his concern, and went to talk to [[Tom Bombadil]].<br /> <br /> What Gandalf did during the next two years is unknown; it is possible that his "''long talk''" with Bombadil was just that. At any rate, on [[29 September]] {{TA|3021|n}}, he met [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] at [[Mithlond]], ready to take the [[White Ship]] over the [[Belegaer|sea]] to [[Aman]]. He wore [[Narya]] openly on his finger, and Shadowfax was beside him (perhaps even to take ship with him). His mission was over, and his homecoming after more than 2000 years was nigh. He bade farewell to [[Samwise Gamgee|Samwise]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]], and [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] (the latter two of whom he had forewarned of the passage), then boarded the ship beside Frodo, Bilbo, Elrond, and Galadriel. The ship passed west upon the sea, and then took the hidden straight path to [[Valinor]]: Gandalf became Olórin once more. There, presumably, he dwells still in the gardens of [[Irmo]]. Olórin, the wisest of the Maiar and the sole Istar to remain true to his mission, had successfully kindled the hearts of the free people in Middle-earth to overcome the evil of their time. In a large way, it was his victory.<br /> <br /> ==Personality==<br /> [[File:Roger Garland - Gandalf.jpg|left|thumb|The Grey Pilgrim relaxing]]<br /> Gandalf is often described in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' as quick to anger, and equally quick to laugh.<ref name="Lorien">{{FR|Lorien}}</ref><br /> His deep wisdom clearly derived from the patience he learned in Valinor, just as his care for all creatures of good will must have come from his strong sense of pity for the weak. Both his patience and sense of pity were revealed again and again, extending even to the servants of his enemies.<br /> [[File:J.R.R. Tolkien - G for Gandalf.png|thumb|Gandalf's signature, the [[cirth|rune]] "G".]]<br /> Keen observers of Gandalf often detected a veiled power, usually revealed in his eyes, which appeared deep and wise. He was alternately affectionate and brusque; he often surprised others with his bluntness when time was of the essence. Gandalf consistently upbraided foolish behaviour, but also richly rewarded those who acted with good intentions.<br /> <br /> Hobbits appealed to him more than to the other Wizards, and he went often to the Shire for respites from his errands. It may be that he was amused by their nature. It may also be because they were untouched by the great evils of the world, and were more in touch with nature than Men; perhaps their agrarian lifestyle appealed to Gandalf's innate spirit and reminded him of the gardens of Valinor.<br /> <br /> ==Appearance==<br /> [[File:John Howe - Gandalf the Grey 02.jpg|thumb|right|200px|[[John Howe]] - ''Gandalf the Grey'']]<br /> <br /> The first description of Gandalf is preserved in the initial pages of ''The Hobbit'', written in the early 1930s. Gandalf's fame is alluded to even before his physical description ("Tales and adventures sprouted up all over the place wherever he went, in the most extraordinary fashion"), while the protagonist's ("unsuspecting Bilbo") impression is that of:<br /> {{Blockquote|...an old man with a staff. He had a tall pointed blue hat, a long grey cloak, a silver scarf over which a white beard hung down below his waist, and immense black boots.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]<ref name="Party"/>}}<br /> <br /> Later, [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] wrote: <br /> {{Blockquote|...a figure strongly built and with broad shoulder, though shorter than the average of men and now stooped with age, leaning on a thick rough-cut staff as he trudged along... Gandalf's hat was wide-brimmed [...] with a pointed conical crown, and it was ''blue''; he wore a long ''grey'' cloak, but this would not reach much below his knees. It was of an elven silver-grey hue, though tarnished by wear - as is evident from the general use of grey in [[The Lord of the Rings|the book]]... But his colours were always white, silver-grey, and blue - except for the boots he wore when walking in the wild...Gandalf even bent must have been at least 5 ft. 6... Which would make him a short man even in modern England, especially with the reduction of a bent back.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]<ref name="MB" />}}<br /> <br /> Although some of the Wise know his true nature, his "wizard-like" appearance causes many to mistake him for a simple conjurer. After his return his "signature colour" changes from grey to white, for he has been sent back to replace the corrupt Saruman as the chief of the Wizards. In the book he claims that in some ways he now "was Saruman", or rather Saruman as he should have been.<br /> <br /> [[Círdan]] the Shipwright seemed to have foreseen this, for he entrusted the care of [[Narya]], one of the [[Three Rings]] of the Elves to Gandalf rather than Saruman.<br /> <br /> ==Powers and abilities==<br /> [[File:Roger Thomasson - Gandalf the Grey.jpg|Roger Thomasson - ''Gandalf the Grey''|thumb]]<br /> <br /> Gandalf demonstrated extensive knowledge of the land and an assortment of magical abilities from trivial to essential. For example he would use his powers for entertainment, by blowing glowing smoke rings that moved around a room at his direction, and [[Bilbo Baggins]] remembered him for his fantastic fireworks displays. He created blinding flashes and other pyrotechnics to distract the [[Orcs|goblins]] of the [[Misty Mountains]], aiding the dwarves in their escape from [[Goblin-town]]. On the eastern slopes, he turned pine cones into flaming projectiles that threw hot sparks and started fires that would not easily go out. He was also able to come and go from the presence of [[Thorin and Company]] without being noticed.<br /> <br /> He again displayed his proficiency with pyrotechnics at [[Bilbo's Farewell Party]]. When the Fellowship is attacked by [[Wargs]] in [[Eregion|Hollin]] Gandalf speaks words of power to inflame the trees on the hillock where the company had camped. He was also able to start fires under blizzard conditions, create light of varying intensity for the journey through [[Moria]], magically secure doors, and break the [[Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]. When angered or aroused for battle, he seemed to grow in height and assume a terrifying aspect. He fought the [[Durin's Bane|Balrog of Moria]] and killed his opponent, although he did not himself survive the battle.<br /> <br /> Sent back to [[Middle-earth]] as Gandalf the White, he possessed greater charisma and a limited degree of clairvoyance, although he was unable to peer into the land of [[Mordor]] to see the progress of Frodo and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]]. His power and authority had increased so that he could break [[Saruman]]'s staff with a spoken command, showing his authority to throw the treacherous wizard out of the order.<br /> <br /> Gandalf was the bearer of [[Narya]], the Ring of Fire, and described himself as the "servant of the [[Secret Fire]]" and "wielder of the [[flame of Anor]]".<ref name=bridge/> Many of Gandalf's displays of power were related to fire in some way. It is not known, though, whether or to what extent his possession of Narya affected his abilities.<ref>FAQ of the Rings: [http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q3-Fireworks D6. ''Gandalf bore the Ring of Fire. Is that how he made his fireworks?'']</ref><br /> <br /> ===Special equipment===<br /> It is unknown whether Gandalf required his staff to exercise certain powers. At times it appeared to focus or extend his powers, such as its emanation of light. [[Gríma|Gríma Wormtongue]] tried to forbid Gandalf from bringing it into [[Edoras]] in a clear attempt to limit his powers.<br /> <br /> When he arrived in Middle-earth, Gandalf received the Elven ring [[Narya]] from [[Círdan]]. Gandalf wore it from that time to the end of the Third Age but how he used its powers is not known.<br /> <br /> In {{TA|2941}}, Gandalf acquired the Elven sword [[Glamdring]] from the treasure hoard of a band of trolls.<ref name="Mutton"/> He continued to wield this weapon throughout ''The Lord of the Rings'', in particular during his fight with the [[Durin's Bane|Balrog]] in Moria.<br /> <br /> Throughout his time in Middle-earth Gandalf often was seen with a pipe.<br /> <br /> ==Other versions of the legendarium==<br /> In early manuscripts of ''[[The Hobbit]]'', the name ''[[Bladorthin]]'' was used by Tolkien for the character who later would be named ''Gandalf''. The name ''Gandalf'' was instead used for the character known as [[Thorin]] in the published works.<ref>{{HH|Intro}}</ref><br /> <br /> ==Inspiration==<br /> [[File:Georg von Rosen - Oden som vandringsman, 1886 (Odin, the Wanderer).jpg|thumb|Georg von Rosen - ''Oden som vandringsman'' (''Odin the Wanderer'')]]<br /> [[File:Josef Madlener - Der Berggeist.jpg|left|thumb|[[Josef Madlener]] - ''[[Der Berggeist]]'']]<br /> <br /> ''Gandalfr''<br /> appears in the list of dwarves in the ''[[Völuspá]]'' of the Elder Edda, the name means "Cane-elf". Tolkien took the name along with the other dwarves' names when he wrote ''The Hobbit'' in the 1930s. He came to regret the creation of this "rabble of eddaic-named dwarves [...] invented in an idle hour",<ref>{{TI|Runes}}, p. 452</ref> since it forced him to come up with an explanation of why Old Norse names should be used in [[Third Age]] Middle-earth. He solved the dilemma in 1942 by the explanation that [[Old Norse]] was a ''translation'' of the [[language of Dale]]. The figure of Gandalf has other influences from Germanic mythology, particularly Odin in his incarnation as "the Wanderer", an old man with one eye, a long white beard, a wide brimmed hat, and a staff: Tolkien states that he thinks of Gandalf as an ''"Odinic wanderer"'' in a letter of 1946.<ref>{{L|107}}</ref><br /> <br /> Tolkien had a postcard labelled ''[[Der Berggeist]]'' ("the mountain spirit"), and on the paper cover in which he kept it, he wrote "the origin of Gandalf" at some point. The postcard reproduces a painting of a bearded figure, sitting on a rock under a pine tree in a mountainous setting. He wears a wide-brimmed round hat and a long cloak and a white fawn is nuzzling his upturned hands.<br /> [[Humphrey Carpenter]] in his 1977 biography said that Tolkien had bought the postcard during his 1911 holiday in Switzerland. However, Manfred Zimmerman discovered that the painting was by German artist Josef Madlener and dates to the late 1920s.<ref>[[Manfred Zimmerman]], "The Origin of Gandalf and Josef Madlener", in [[Mythlore|''Mythlore'']] [[Mythlore 34|34]] (Winter [[1983]])</ref> Carpenter concluded that Tolkien was probably mistaken about the origin of the postcard himself. Tolkien must have acquired the card at some time in the early 1930s, at a time when ''The Hobbit'' had already begun to take shape.<br /> <br /> ==Names==<br /> {{Main|Gandalf/Names}}<br /> <br /> ==Etymology==<br /> Within the legendarium, ''Gandalf'' translates an unknown name of the meaning "Elf-of-the-wand (or cane/staff)", or more literary "Wand-elf", in old northern Mannish. Most denizens of Middle-earth incorrectly assumed Gandalf was a [[Men|Man]], although he was really a Maia spirit (approximately equivalent to an angel). However, a less common misconception that occurred during the beginning of his career in Middle-earth was that for someone to be [[Immortality|immortal]] and use as much magic as he did, he must have been an Elf. Although it soon became apparent to all that he could not be an Elf, as he was old and Elves do not generally age, the nickname stuck with him. He later gave it as his name to others he met who did not know its original meaning.<br /> <br /> ==Portrayals in adaptations==<br /> {{Gallery<br /> |title=Gandalf in adaptations<br /> |height=150<br /> |width=200<br /> |lines=3<br /> |File:The Hobbit (1966 film) - Gandalf.png|Gandalf in [[The Hobbit (1966 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1966 film)]]<br /> |File:The Hobbit (1977 film) - Gandalf.jpg|Gandalf in [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]<br /> |File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Gandalf.jpg|Gandalf the Grey in [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]<br /> |File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Gandalf the White.jpg|Gandalf the White in [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]<br /> |File:War in Middle Earth - Gandalf and three hobbits.png|Gandalf in ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien's War in Middle Earth]]''<br /> |File:LOTR-Gandalf 1990-1--1-.png|Gandalf in [[J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I (1990 video game)|''J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I'' (1990 video game)]]<br /> |File:LOTR vol. 1 SNES Gandalf in the Shire.png|Gandalf in [[J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I (SNES)|''J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I'' (SNES)]]<br /> |File:1121208-ror 010-1-.png|Gandalf in ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien's Riders of Rohan]]''<br /> |File:The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring - Gandalf reading the Book of Mazarbul.jpg|Gandalf the Grey in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br /> |File:The Lord of the Rings - The Motion Picture Trilogy - Gandalf the White.jpg|Gandalf the White in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''<br /> |File:The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring (video game) - Gandalf.JPG|Gandalf in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]<br /> |File:Gandalf 2Towers.png|Gandalf in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers'' (video game)]]<br /> |File:The Lord of the Rings- The Two Towers GBA - Gandalf, Frodo and Legolas.png|Gandalf in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)#Game Boy Advance version|''The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers'' (Game Boy Advance)]]<br /> |File:The Hobbit (2003) Gandalf.JPG|Gandalf in ''[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]<br /> |File:Gandalf EA RotK.png|Gandalf in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (video game)]]<br /> |File:The Lord of the Rings- The Return of the King GBA - Gandalf.png|Gandalf in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (Game Boy Advance)]]<br /> |File:Gandalf in LOTRO.png|Gandalf in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''<br /> |File:The Lord of the Rings Online Shadows of Angmar - Gandalf.png|Gandalf the Grey in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar]]''<br /> |File:Gandalf.jpg|Gandalf the White in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''<br /> |File:The Lord of the Rings- Conquest -Gandalf fighting Orcs.png|'''[[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]''<br /> |File:Aragorn's Quest - Gandalf the White.jpg|Gandalf the White in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest]]''<br /> |File:Gandalf in LOTR- War in the North-1.png|''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]''<br /> |File:Lego - Gandalf the Grey mini figure.png|Gandalf the Grey as a ''[[Lego]] mini figure''<br /> |File:Guardians of Middle-earth - Gandalf.png|Gandalf the Grey in ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''<br /> |File:The Hobbit (film series) - Gandalf.jpg|Gandalf the Grey in [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]<br /> }}<br /> ===Films===<br /> '''1966: [[The Hobbit (1966 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1966 film)]]:'''<br /> :Gandalf's role is drastically reduced. He lives in a tower, where Thorin, the [[Mika Milovana|princess]] and the guard meet him to discuss the killing of [[Smaug|Slag]]. He introduces them to Bilbo, but does not go on the quest.<ref name="Deitch">{{webcite|articleurl=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UBnVL1Y2src|articlename=The Hobbit.mp4|dated=5 January 2012|website=YouTube|accessed=10 January 2012}}</ref><br /> <br /> '''1977: [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]:'''<br /> :The voice of Gandalf was provided by [[John Huston]].<br /> <br /> '''1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]:'''<br /> :Gandalf was voiced by [[William Squire]]. [[John A. Neris]] played him in the live-action filming used for rotoscoping.<ref>Jerry Beck, ''The Animated Movie Guide'', page 154 (at [http://books.google.com/books?id=fTI1yeZd-tkC&pg=PA154&dq=%22John+A.+Neris%22&hl=nl#PPA154,M1 GoogleBooks])</ref> <br /> <br /> '''1980: [[The Return of the King (1980 film)|''The Return of the King'' (1980 film)]]:'''<br /> :[[John Huston]] reprised his role as Gandalf. In this adaptation, the tale is told by a minstrel of [[Gondor]], yet in the story, Gandalf serves as the narrator. Gandalf the White is portrayed without difference from Gandalf the Grey, in ''The Hobbit''.<br /> <br /> '''1985: [[The Hobbit (1985 television film)|''The Fairytale Adventures of Mr. Baggins, the Hobbit'' (1985 film)]]:''' <br /> :Ivan Krasko played Gandalf.<br /> <br /> '''2001: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'':'''<br /> :[[Ian McKellen]] was cast as Gandalf. He was nominated for an Academy Award for his portrayal.<br /> <br /> '''2002: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]'':'''<br /> :Perhaps the most striking difference from all other adaptations is the difference between Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White. Where earlier no visible or audible difference was made, Gandalf the White is portrayed as much more virile, and with a shorter (and whiter) beard. <br /> <br /> '''2003: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'':'''<br /> :Because [[Imrahil]] had been cut from the film, it was up to Gandalf to lead the troops after the madness and death of [[Denethor]].<br /> <br /> '''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br /> :[[Ian McKellen|Sir Ian McKellen]] reprised his role as Gandalf the Grey.<ref name="PJCasting">{{webcite|author=[[Peter Jackson]]|articleurl=http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150168211921558|articlename=Production begins in New Zealand on The Hobbit|dated=20-March-2011|website=[http://www.facebook.com/ Facebook]|accessed=23-Dec-2011}}</ref> A description of Gandalf in ''The Hobbit'' films was released by the studio: <br /> <br /> :{{Blockquote|One of the most powerful Wizards in all Middle-earth, Gandalf the Grey joins the quest to reclaim the Dwarf Kingdom of Erebor and the great treasure that lies within its stone halls from a fire-breating dragon, Smaug the Terrible. Along the way, Gandalf finds evidence that an ancient evil may have found its way back into the world. In order to uncover the truth, Gandalf must leave his companions to fend for themselves – a journey that will take him into the darkest corners of Middle-earth where his worst suspicions are confirmed.|[[Warner Bros.]]<ref name="HobbitApp">{{webcite|author=[[Warner Bros.]]|articleurl=http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hobbit-movies/id545808528|articlename=Hobbit Movies|dated=7-September-2012|website=[http://itunes.apple.com/ Apple iPhone/iPad App]|accessed=19-September-2012}}</ref>}}<br /> <br /> ===Radio series===<br /> '''1955: [[The Lord of the Rings (1955 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1955 radio series)]]:'''<br /> :The voice of Gandalf was provided by [[Norman Shelley]].<ref>{{L|175}}</ref><br /> <br /> '''1968: [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]]:'''<br /> :The voice of Gandalf was provided by [[Heron Carvic]].<br /> <br /> '''1979: [[The Hobbit (1979 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''<br /> :The voice of Gandalf was provided [[Bernard Mayes]].<br /> <br /> '''1979: [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''<br /> :[[Bernard Mayes]] reprised his role as Gandalf.<br /> <br /> '''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:'''<br /> :[[Michael Hordern]] read the part of Gandalf. He had not read the book, and thought his agent made a mistake in telling him how many episodes he had to do. He did not know Gandalf's early death would prove only temporarily.<ref>[[Brian Sibley]], "[http://briansibleytheworks.blogspot.com/2008/01/this-page-is-still-under-construction_23.html The Ring Goes Ever On: The Making of BBC Radio's ''The Lord of the Rings'']", at ''[http://briansibleytheworks.blogspot.com/ Brian Sibley:The Works]''</ref><br /> <br /> ===Games===<br /> '''1982: [[The Hobbit (1982 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (1982 video game)]]:'''<br /> :Gandalf can be met on several moments of the game's story line.<ref>[http://www.worldofspectrum.org/showmag.cgi?mag=ZXComputing/Issue8304/Pages/ZXComputing830400076.jpg ''ZX Computing'', iss. 8304, p. 76] reproduced at [http://www.worldofspectrum.org/archive.html World of Spectrum - Archive] (retrieved at 14 August 2010)</ref><br /> <br /> '''1990: [[J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I (1990 video game)|''J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I'' (1990 video game)]]:'''<br /> :Gandalf can be "recruited" by [[Frodo Baggins]] as a playable character.<br /> <br /> '''1990: ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien's Riders of Rohan]]'':'''<br /> :Gandalf is one of the main characters of the game and one of the several heroes of the [[Rohan]] faction.<br /> <br /> '''1994: [[J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I (SNES)|''J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I'' (SNES)]]:'''<br /> :Gandalf can be acquired as a playable character.<br /> <br /> '''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]:'''<br /> :[[Tom Kane]] provided the voice of Gandalf. He is a playable character in several levels, including the fight with [[Durin's Bane]].<br /> <br /> '''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers'' (video game)]]:'''<br /> :The voice of Gandalf is provided by [[Ian McKellen]]. Gandalf the Grey appears at the campsite of the [[Fellowship of the Ring|fellowship]] in ''The Gates of Moria'' and during the fight of [[Balin's Tomb]] in ''Balin's Tomb''. He latter reappears in the game as Gandalf the White at the start of the mission ''The Plains of Rohan'', where he leaves Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli to search Éomer and his army. He also appears in some cutscenes.<br /> <br /> '''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)#Game Boy Advance version|''The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers'' (Game Boy Advance)]]:'''<br /> :In the [[wikipedia:Game Boy Advance|Game Boy Advance version]] of [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)|The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]] Gandalf is a playable character. Gandalf's story starts with a conservation between Gandalf and [[Théoden]], after which the story goes back to the [[Caradhras]], where the Fellowship tries to travel over the [[Misty Mountains]]. When that road fails, the Fellowship goes back and travels through [[Moria]]. In Moria Gandalf and the other member of the Fellowship are separated. After finding [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]], [[Aragorn]] and [[Gimli]] the fellowship is attacked by a [[Cave-trolls|Cave-troll]] and [[Orcs#Orcs and Goblins|Goblins]]. After Gandalf defeats the Cave-troll the Fellowship has to flee for the [[Balrogs|Balrog]]. When they reach the [[Bridge of Khazad-dûm]] a cutscene is shown, in which Gandalf destroys the bridge and falls with the Balrog in the depths. After the fall Gandalf has to follow the footsteps of the Balrog through the depths of Moria and the [[Endless Stair]] until he reaches [[Durin's Tower]], where he has to defeat the Balrog.<br /> <br /> :After being revived he returns as Gandalf the White in Fangorn, where he defeats several [[Trolls]] and [[Crebain]]. After defeating a stronger Forrest troll, named Fangorn troll, Gandalf meets Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli. After a cutscene, the game moves to [[Edoras]]. Gandalf heals the corrupted Théoden in Edoras, and then travels through [[Rohan]] in search of [[Éomer]]. Gandalf convinces Éomer to lead his army to [[Helm's Deep]].<br /> <br /> :The game ends with the [[Battle of the Hornburg|Battle of Helm's Deep]], in which Gandalf and Éomer fight alongside Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and [[Éowyn]] while protecting the wall, the [[Hornburg]] and the [[Glittering Caves]]. In the final level Gandalf has to destroy the siege weapons that bombard the Hornburg. The game ends with a conservation between Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli and Théoden.<br /> <br /> '''2003: [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]:'''<br /> :[[Jim Ward]] provided the voice of Gandalf. He is shown with actual [[magic]]: he can shoot blue bolts of lightning from his staff. <br /> <br /> '''2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (video game)]]:'''<br /> :Gandalf is the narrator, and a playable character. The game is built around him; the cut scene narration shows how he planned for the [[War of the Ring]]. He has several missions, collectively called the "Path of the Wizard". The first is the [[Battle of the Hornburg|the Battle of Helm's Deep]], which serves as a training mission. He has to fight [[Uruk-Hai]] in the forest of [[Huorns]] and [[Ents]] in "The Road to Isengard". After that, the missions move to [[Minas Tirith]]: the first mission, "Top of the Wall", has Gandalf warding off ladders and siege towers. In the second, "Courtyard", he has to protect civilians from the invading Orcs. His last playing mission is the [[Battle of the Morannon|Battle of the Black Gate]].<br /> <br /> '''2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (Game Boy Advance)]]:'''<br /> :Just like on the console version of the game, Gandalf is a playable character. He has many missions, collectively called the "The Journey of the Wizard". He starts in a flooded [[Isengard]], where he has to kill several [[Uruk-hai]] and [[Crebain]] before he confronts [[Saruman]]. After the defeat of Saruman he travels to [[Minas Tirith]] through Rohan and the Misty Mountains. At the [[Pelennor Fields]] Gandalf has to protect the [[Beacons of Gondor|beacons]], so Rohan can be warned. During the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields|Battle of Minas Tirith]] he has to protect the gate, before making his way to the [[House of the Stewards|Steward's Tomb]]. Here Gandalf has to kill Denethor, before he burns [[Faramir]]. After the battle Gandalf travels through [[Ithilien]] to the [[Black Gate]], where he confronts a Nazgûl.<br /> <br /> '''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Third Age]]'':'''<br /> :Gandalf, voiced by [[Ian McKellen]], is a character in [[Electronic Arts|EA's]] "alternative [[Fellowship of the Ring|fellowship]]" game. In his battle against Durin's Bane, he is aided by the main characters.<br /> <br /> '''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'':'''<br /> :Gandalf is voiced by [[Steven M. Kramer]], renowned for playing older mentor types.<br /> <br /> '''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]'':'''<br /> :In non-storyline skirmishes Gandalf is the hero of the Gondor faction, who possesses several magical abilities. At first, he appears as Gandalf "the Grey", and becomes "Gandalf the White" after reaching level 5 (out of 10). Gandalf also narrates the prologue scene, repeating almost word for word the lines said by Galadriel in the ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''.<br /> <br /> :His involvement in the storyline is notable for major differences from the original tale. First of all, Gandalf survives his encounter with Balrog, defeating him at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continues the journey with the Fellowship - by the time of arrival in Lothlorien he already appears as Gandalf the White. He is present during the ambush at [[Amon Hen]], where thanks to his involvement Boromir is saved from certain death. Merry and Pippin are captured regardless and Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and Boromir give chase, while Gandalf departs them to see to dealings in Rohan, including freeing of King Théoden from the spell. Following the Battle of Helm's Deep he travels to Minas Tirith along with both Pippin and Boromir, where they participate in the Siege of the city.<br /> <br /> '''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br /> :Gandalf is a hero for the "Men of the West" faction. Similar to the first game, he appears as Gandalf the Grey initially and Gandalf the White after level 5. He plays no part in the main storyline, but appears in the alternate "evil" campaign: after Sauron reclaims the Ring and lays waste to southern lands, Gandalf and few other survivors meet their end during a last stand in Rivendell. <br /> <br /> '''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br /> :Gandalf is a non-playable character voiced by [[Harry Chase]], who narrates cutscenes and instances throughout the original game, before the first expansion. He first meets the Dwarven characters in Ered Luin in {{TA|2941}}, shortly before the Quest for Erebor. Later, characters of all races meet him in Bree in October of {{TA|3018}}, but he is too busy with concerns for Frodo and the Ring and merely sends them away to find Radagast. Finally, the players have a chance to have a proper conversation with him in Rivendell, following the Council of Elrond. During that time, Gandalf is involved in several quests, including helping the player wreck havoc among the Goblins stirring at the [[High Pass]]. After the Fellowship leaves Rivendell, players are able to retrace many of their steps, including the marks left by Gandalf such as the Burnt Top in [[Eregion]] and the remains of his fire at the pass of [[Caradhras]]. Later, Lady [[Galadriel]] bids the player to find the sings of Gandalf following his fall from the Bridge of Khazad-dum - said signs include his burnt hat at the Foundations of Stone in Moria and the sings of his struggle with the Balrog at the [[Endless Stair]] - those allow Galadriel to discern that Mithrandir is not truly dead. Players later meet him as Gandalf the White in [[Caras Galadhon]] shortly after the Fellowship has departed Lothlorien. During that time, he engages into a spiritual battle with a Gaunt-Lord Gortheron the Doom-Caller; his display of his new abilities encourages the band of Free People players and allows them to defeat the servant of Sauron.<br /> <br /> :Gandalf is also present in several historic "session plays", during which players witness the important events their characters were not present for. Such events include Gandalf infiltrating [[Dol Guldur]] with the help of an Elf named Raddir, first meeting between Gandalf and Aragorn on the outskirts of Lothlorien and Gandalf's imprisonment atop Orthanc by Saruman.<br /> <br /> '''2009: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]'':'''<br /> :[[Martin Jarvis]] provides the voice of Gandalf. He is a playable mage hero and has three special powers: "Healing Wisdom", "You Shall not Pass!" and "Cleansing Fire". In the good campaign he appears at the end of the Isengard mission, where he has to kill Saruman in [[Orthanc]]. In Moria he can be played to destroy the [[Balrog]] and in Minas Tirith he has to defend the gates of the second ring. He is also one of the four playable heroes in the last mission, [[The Battle of the Morannon|the battle of the Black Gate]]. He appears aswell in the end of the last mission, the Shire, of the evil campaign, in which he is defeated by [[Sauron]].<br /> :He is also playable in the Shire, Isengard, Minas Tirith and Moria with the ''Conquest'' Mode, in Isengard and Minas Tirith in the ''Team Deathmatch'' mode, the citadel of Minas Tirith in ''Capture the Ring'' mode, and at the Black Gate, Minas Morgul, Mout Doom and the Shire during ''Hero Team Deatmatch'' mode.<br /> <br /> '''2011: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]'':'''<br /> :Gandalf is voiced by [[Tom Kane]], who also narrates the introduction of the game. He tells that heroes like "[[Aragorn|Aragorn the King]]", "[[Frodo Baggins|Frodo the Ringbearer]]" and "'''Gandalf the Wizard'''" are rightly honored, but that without a few heroes - [[Eradan (video game character)|Eradan]], [[Andriel]] and [[Farin (video game character)|Farin]] - the north of [[Middle-earth]] would have been lost.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]], ''Prologue''</ref> <br /> :He also appears in [[Rivendell]] later in the game. Players can interact with him and learn of various important events, yet the conversations do not unlock any side-quests and do not affect the main story in any way.<br /> <br /> '''2012: ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]'':'''<br /> :Gandalf is a mage-type "guardian" with four abilities: ''Narya's Power'', ''Flame of Anor'', ''Fireworks'' and ''Gandalf's Might''.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.co.uk/guardians/gandalf|articlename=''Guardians of Middle-earth'': Gandalf|dated=|website=[http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.com/ ''Guardians of Middle-earth'' official website]|accessed=16 July 2012}}</ref><br /> <br /> {{References}}<br /> <br /> {{seq-start}}<br /> {{seq-head<br /> | race=maiar<br /> | house=[[Maiar]]<br /> }}<br /> {{seq<br /> | prev=[[Círdan]]<br /> | list=Bearer of [[Narya]]<br /> | dates=c. {{TA|1000}} - after {{TA|3021|n}}<br /> | nvac=None<br /> | next=Presumably, still Gandalf<br /> }}<br /> {{seq<br /> | pvac=None<br /> | prev=Position created<br /> | list=Leader of the [[Fellowship of the Ring]]<br /> | dates=[[25 December]] {{TA|3018}} - [[15 January]] {{TA|3019|n}}<br /> | next=[[Aragorn|Aragorn II]]<br /> }}<br /> {{seq-end}}{{ainur}}{{Thorin and Company}}{{companyroute}}{{councilofelrond}}{{fellowship}}{{FellowshipRoute}}{{ringbearers}}<br /> [[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]<br /> [[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br /> [[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br /> [[Category:Maiar]]<br /> [[Category:Masculine names]]<br /> [[Category:Norse names]]<br /> [[Category:Third Age characters]]<br /> [[Category:Wizards]]<br /> <br /> [[de:Gandalf]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo:personnages:ainur:maiar:istari:gandalf]]<br /> [[fi:Gandalf]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=7_February&diff=310117 7 February 2020-02-09T20:07:15Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div><noinclude>{{month|February|hide30=yes|hide31=yes}}<br /> Events that occurred on {{PAGENAME}}.<br /> ==On Earth==<br /> </noinclude><br /> * '''[[1952]]''' - The [[Inklings]] have dinner at [[C.S. Lewis]]'s house, in the company of Dr. Firor of John Hopkins University. The evening was described by [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] as "''like a glimpse of old times: quiet and rational (since [[Hugo Dyson|Hugo]] was not asked).''" <br /> * '''[[1968]]''' - The third day of filming [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] for the documentary ''[[Tolkien in Oxford]]''.<br /> * '''[[1988]]''' - Author [[Lin Carter]] dies.<br /> * '''[[2008]]''' - "[[C.S. Lewis]], the [[Inklings]], and the Call to Christian Community" conference, featuring [[Tom Shippey]].<br /> *'''[[2020]]''' - [[Orson Bean]], actor who voiced [[Bilbo Baggins]], dies.<br /> ==In Arda==<br /> * {{TA|3019}}:<br /> ** {{Cal Rest-Company}}<noinclude>[[Category:Dates|038]][[fi:7. helmikuuta]]</noinclude></div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Wizards&diff=309356 Wizards 2020-01-06T05:28:09Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by 47.18.100.138 (talk) to last revision by Mith</p> <hr /> <div>{{rewrite}}<br /> {{people infobox<br /> | name=Wizards<br /> | image=[[File:Angel Falto - The Istari.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption="[[:File:Angel Falto - The Istari.jpg|The Istari]]" by Angel Falto<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=''Istari''<br /> | origin=[[Maiar]] sent to [[Middle-earth]]<br /> | location=[[Orthanc]] (Saruman)<br/>[[Rhosgobel]] (Radagast)<br>[[East]] (Blue Wizards)<br /> | affiliation=[[Sauron]] (Saruman in late [[Third Age]])<br /> | rivalry=[[Sauron]]<br /> | language=<br /> | members=[[Saruman]], [[Gandalf]], [[Radagast]], [[Blue Wizards]]<br /> | lifespan=Immortal<br /> | distinctions=<br /> | height=<br /> | hair=<br /> | skin=<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=<br /> }}<br /> {{quote|Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.|[[Gildor|Gildor Inglorion]]<ref>{{FR|Three}}</ref>}}<br /> <br /> The '''Wizards''' of [[Middle-earth]], also known as the '''Istari''' in [[Quenya]] and the '''[[Ithron|Ithryn]]''' in [[Sindarin]], were a small group of beings outwardly resembling [[Men]] but possessing much greater physical and mental power. <br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> [[File:John Howe - Gandalf 01.jpg|thumb|left|[[John Howe]] - ''Gandalf'']]<br /> The wizards, also called Istari, were originally spirits of the order of the [[Maiar]], the followers of the [[Valar]]. These were sent by the Valar to help and assist the peoples of Middle-earth against Sauron as he gathered his forces during the [[Third Age]]. <br /> <br /> The five known Istari were [[Curumo]], a Maia of [[Aulë]], [[Gandalf|Olórin]], a Maia of [[Manwë]] and [[Varda]], [[Radagast|Aiwendil]], a Maia of [[Yavanna]], and [[Blue Wizards|Alatar]] and [[Blue Wizards|Pallando]], both Maiar of [[Oromë]]. Alatar and Pallando, also known as [[Ithryn Luin]], the "Blue Wizards," went into the East and do not come into the main tales of Middle-earth. In the northwest of Middle-earth Curumo became known as [[Saruman]] to Men and [[Curunír]] to [[Elves]], Olórin was known as [[Gandalf]] to Men and [[Gandalf|Mithrandir]] to Elves, while Aiwendil became known as [[Radagast]].<br /> <br /> The Istari came to Middle-earth around the year {{TA|1000}} (though the Blue Wizards may have arrived much earlier). Each wizard was assigned a colour for his clothes, white being indicative of the chief. The two that traveled to the East wore sea-blue robes, hence their name Ithryn Luin, the "Blue Wizards." Similarly the other wizards also became known by their colours, being referred to as "Saruman the White," "Gandalf the Grey," and "Radagast the Brown." It is not known if the colour had any special meaning concerning their rank, abilities or nature.<br /> <br /> They were clothed in the bodies of old men, restricting their powers so that they would only assist the peoples of Middle-earth and not seek domination like Sauron had, who was also a Maia. They were charged by the Valar to assist the people of Middle-earth through persuasion and encouragement, not force or fear. By inhabiting the bodies of Men they also became susceptible to all of the weaknesses of a physical body: they felt hunger, pain, greed, sorrow, joy, and all other emotions and pains of Men.<br /> <br /> Their spirits remained immortal, and they aged only very slowly. However, their bodies could be killed: Gandalf did indeed die from his duel with the [[Balrogs|Balrog]] of [[Moria]], and only through the intervention of [[Ilúvatar|Eru]] himself was he restored to his body.<br /> <br /> Very few of Middle-earth's inhabitants knew who the Wizards really were; the Istari did not share this information. Most believed they were Elves or wise Men (''Gandalf'' represents this interpretation, meaning ''Wand-elf'', because the Men who gave him the nickname believed he was an Elf). They attracted few questions due to their gentle nature and dislike of direct interference with other people's affairs. In spite of their specific and unambiguous goal, the Wizards were nevertheless capable of mortal feelings, thus [[Gandalf]] felt great affection for the [[Hobbits]]. On the other hand, they could feel negative mortal emotions like greed, jealousy, and lust for power. Saruman himself fell victim to these emotions, and it is hinted in an essay in ''[[Unfinished Tales]]'' that the Blue Wizards (see below) may have also fallen prey to these temptations during their journeys in the East.<br /> <br /> Saruman was originally gifted with the greatest power of the five Istari and was named the head of the White Council, a group of the Wise in opposition to Sauron. In {{TA|2759}}, he was invited by the rulers of Gondor and Rohan to settle in [[Isengard]] and the impenetrable tower of [[Orthanc]]. Saruman was learned in the lore of the [[Rings of Power]], gradually becoming corrupted by the desire for the Rings and by Sauron's direct influence on him through the ''[[Palantíri|palantír]]'' of [[Orthanc]]. Eventually he became ensnared in Sauron's power, and assisted him in the War of the Ring until he was defeated by the [[Ents]] and Gandalf, who broke his staff and cast him out of the White Council. Saruman's death came at the hands of his servant [[Gríma|Wormtongue]] in [[The Shire]], after the destruction of [[the One Ring]]. His spirit was then dispersed by a wind from the West, becoming similar to Sauron in his destruction.<br /> <br /> When Saruman fell to the temptation of the Ring, and after the defeat of the Balrog of Moria, Gandalf was reborn and given the title of Gandalf the White. Gandalf, who had originally been nominated for leadership of the White Council by the Elf-Lady [[Galadriel]], assumed leadership both of the White Council and the Order of the Istari. He then cast Saruman from the order and led the West to victory over Sauron, advising the [[Ring-bearers|Ringbearer]] [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] and the new king of [[Gondor]] [[Aragorn|Aragorn Elessar]]. After the defeat of Sauron and Saruman, Gandalf traveled west across the Sea with the Ringbearers, revealing that he himself was the bearer of [[Narya]], one of the Elven Rings of Power.<br /> <br /> Radagast stayed true to his mission for a while, even serving as a messenger to Gandalf from Saruman, convincing Gandalf to meet with Saruman. He also instructed the birds in his service to assist Saruman and Gandalf. Radagast dwelt at [[Rhosgobel]] near the borders of [[Mirkwood]]. Eventually, Radagast is said to have become enamoured of the beasts and birds and to have ultimately failed to complete his mission. Later writings are less critical of Radagast, arguing that he did not fail at his mission as much as simply choose a tactic - working with the animal world - that ultimately proved less directly effective than working with Men and Elves.<br /> <br /> The [[Blue Wizards]] went into the East and do not come into the tales of northwestern Middle-earth. It is sometimes thought that the Blue Wizards also failed in their mission and fell to the temptations that had corrupted Saruman; it is said that their fall gave rise to magical cults in the East. However, other writings again suggest otherwise, even that the Blue Wizards possibly succeeded in their mission, and that the victories of the West would have been impossible without their influence in the East.<br /> <br /> == Etymology ==<br /> Tolkien's Istari were not wizards in the common sense of the word, but rather more like 'wise men' or even 'messengers.' [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]], a lifelong philologist and devoted Catholic, deliberately used the word wizard, as it connoted 'wisdom' and conveniently conveyed to the reader the 'other worldly' powers of the characters. These sentiments were best worded by Tolkien himself in the first paragraph of the essay ''The Istari'' in the [[Unfinished Tales]]:<br /> <br /> <blockquote>Wizard ''is a translation of Quenya istar (Sindarin ''ithron''): one of the members of an "order" (as they call it), claiming to possess, and exhibiting, eminent knowledge of the history and nature of the World. The translation (though suitable in its relation to "wise" and other ancient words of knowing, similar to that of ''istar'' in Quenya) is not perhaps happy, since ''Heren'' Istarion or "Order of Wizards" was quite distinct from "wizards" and "magicians" of later legend; they belonged solely to the Third Age and then departed, and none save maybe Elrond, Círdan and Galadriel discovered of what kind they were or whence they came.''</blockquote><br /> <br /> The [[Quenya]] word ''Istari'' means "those who know".<ref name=L156>{{L|156}}</ref> The word seems to come from the verb ''[[ista-]]'' ("to know"), and possibly the [[Wikipedia:Agentive ending|agentive ending]] ''[[-ro]]''.<ref>{{webcite|author=[[Helge Fauskanger]]|articleurl=http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/affix~1|articlename=Quenya Affixes|website=Arda}}</ref><br /> <br /> ==Other versions of the legendarium==<br /> <br /> In [[Gnomish]], one of [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]'s early conceptions of an [[Elvish|Elven]] language, the word for "wizard" is ''curug'' (and "witch" is ''curus''). An alternative word is ''thothweg'', also translated as "wizard".<ref>{{PE|11}}, pp. 27, 73</ref> In ''[[The Hobbit]]'', while no mention is made of an Order of Wizards, Gandalf tells [[Beorn]] that Radagast is his "cousin".<ref>{{H|Queer}}</ref> In the ''[[Unfinished Tales]]'' it is said that the wizards appeared in Middle-earth about {{TA|1000|n}},<ref name="Istari">{{UT|Istari}}</ref> but in ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'' a rough note by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] said that the [[Blue Wizards]] (Alatar and Pallando, or [[Morinehtar]] and [[Rómestámo]]) came much earlier in the [[Second Age]].<ref>{{PM|Last}}, The Five Wizards, pp. 384-385</ref> [[Christopher Tolkien]] stated that much of the writings about the Istari are rapid jottings and often illegible.<ref name="Istari"/><br /> <br /> ==Other fiction==<br /> A wizard, who puts a spell on the dog Rover, appears in Tolkien's story ''[[Roverandom]]''. The bewitchment turns Rover into a toy.<br /> <br /> ==Portrayal in adaptations==<br /> '''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''<br /> :In Peter Jackson's film version of ''The Lord of the Rings'', two of the five Wizards (Saruman and Gandalf) were portrayed and featured heavily in the film trilogy (as the characters do in the books.)<br /> <br /> '''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br /> :Although Radagast has a small role in ''The Lord of the Rings'', his role was omitted in Peter Jackson's film trilogy. However, Radagast had a substantial supporting role in ''The Hobbit'' films, and Saruman had a brief appearance.<br /> <br /> {{references}}<br /> {{ainur}}<br /> [[Category:Maiar]]<br /> [[Category:Wizards| ]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo/personnages/ainur/maiar/istari]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Sharku&diff=309276 Sharku 2020-01-03T11:50:10Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{adaptation}}<br /> {{disambig-two|the Orc from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''|[[Orkish]] word|[[sharkû]]}}<br /> {{orc infobox<br /> | name=Sharku<br /> | image=[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Motion Picture Trilogy - Sharku.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption="Sharku" from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=<br /> | titles=<br /> | position=<br /> | location=<br /> | affiliation=[[Saruman]]<br /> | language=<br /> | birth=<br /> | birthlocation=<br /> | rule=<br /> | death=<br /> | deathlocation=[[Rohan]]<br /> | age=<br /> | notablefor=<br /> | house=<br /> | parentage=<br /> | siblings=<br /> | spouse=<br /> | children=<br /> | gender=Male<br /> | height=<br /> | hair=<br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=<br /> | steed=[[Warg]]<br /> }}<br /> '''Sharku''' was an [[Orcs|Orc]] invented for ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''. He was played by [[Jed Brophy]].<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> Sharku was one of the [[Wargs|Warg]]-riders who ambushed the column of [[Rohan]] women and children retreating from [[Edoras]] to the safety of [[Helm's Deep]]. [[Théoden]] and his guard, with the help of [[Aragorn]], [[Legolas]], and [[Gimli]], fended off the attack. However, during the battle Aragorn got tangled in the harness of Sharku's Warg and both the beast and the ranger fell off a cliff. Sharku, mortally wounded, survived just long enough to gloat about Aragorn's (supposed) death to Legolas and Gimli.<br /> ==Etymology==<br /> ''[[Sharkû]]'' is a [[Black Speech]] word meaning "Old Man".<ref>{{HM|N}}, p. 763</ref><br /> {{references}}<br /> [[Category:Orcs from adaptations]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Black_Gate&diff=309174 Black Gate 2019-12-27T15:13:53Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by 58.6.174.136 (talk) to last revision by BalrogTrainer</p> <hr /> <div>{{sources}}<br /> {{location infobox<br /> | name=The Black Gate<br /> | image=[[File:John Howe - The Black Gates.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption="The Black Gates" by [[John Howe]]<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=''Morannon'' ([[Sindarin|S]])<br /> | location=Meeting of [[Udûn (valley)|Udûn]] and [[Dagorlad]], between [[Ered Lithui]] and [[Ephel Dúath]]<br /> | type=Gate<br /> | description=Iron wall containing arched two-doored entrance<ref name="Closed">{{TT|Gate}}</ref><ref name="Opens">{{RK|Gate}}</ref><br /> | regions=<br /> | towns=<br /> | inhabitants=Originally [[Gondorians]]; later [[orcs]]<ref name="Closed"/><br /> | created=c. {{SA|1600}}<ref>{{S|Rings}}</ref><br /> | destroyed=[[25 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br /> | events=<br /> }}<br /> The '''Black Gate''' of [[Mordor]] ([[Sindarin]]: '''Morannon''') was originally a gate built by [[Sauron]], the Dark Lord of [[Mordor]], to prevent invasion through the Pass of [[Cirith Gorgor]], the gap between the [[Ered Lithui]] and the [[Ephel Dúath]].<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> It was probably built with the power of the One Ring, like the [[Barad-dûr]]. After Sauron's fall, it became a [[Númenor]]ean garrison. Backed up on the other side by the [[Carach Angren|Isenmouthe]], and protected by the castle of [[Durthang]] to the west, it was redesigned to keep all of Mordor's evil inside, shielding the outside from it - and it from the outside. The reconstruction of [[Minas Ithil]], Tower of the Rising Moon, as well as the construction of [[Cirith Ungol]] were also done for the same purpose.<br /> <br /> However, during the aftermath of the [[Kin-strife]] in [[Gondor]] the watchfulness of the guards in these strongholds relaxed. Thus the [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]] and [[Orcs]] re-entered Mordor, eventually overrunning the garrisons and inhabiting them for themselves. It was at this time that the tower of Minas Ithil was taken by the Nazgul, having its name changed to [[Minas Morgul]], Tower of Sorcery.<br /> <br /> During the [[War of the Ring]], the Army of the West, numbering under 6,000 men,<ref name="Opens"/> arrived at the Black Gate with the intention of drawing the [[Eye of Sauron]] away from [[Mount Doom]], to allow [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] the Ringbearer to cast [[the One Ring]] into the [[Cracks of Doom|Crack of Doom]] within it. This they achieved, and the Ring was destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom, following which the Black Gate and the Towers of Teeth immediately collapsed. <br /> <br /> ==See Also==<br /> *[[:Category:Images of the Black Gate|Images of the Black Gate]]<br /> {{references}}<br /> {{FellowshipRoute}}<br /> [[Category:Fortresses]]<br /> [[Category:Mordor]]<br /> [[Category:Doors and gates]]<br /> <br /> [[de:Morannon]]<br /> [[fi:Musta Portti]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo/geographie/villes_tours_et_forteresses/mordor/porte_noire]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Racism&diff=308866 Racism 2019-12-10T14:53:36Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by 162.250.152.60 (talk) to last revision by LorenzoCB</p> <hr /> <div>{{sources}}<br /> {{quote|For years, Tolkien scholars have waged a fight on two fronts: against an academic establishment that for the most part refused to take the author's work seriously, and against white supremacists who have tried to claim the professor as one of their own.|David Ibata, ''Chicago Tribune''<ref>http://metromix.chicagotribune.com/movies/chi-030112epringsrace,0,341461.story</ref>}}<br /> <br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Haradrim.jpg|thumb|225px|''[[Haradrim]]'' from [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]]]<br /> [[Image:John Howe - Easterlings.jpg|thumb|[[John Howe]] - ''Easterlings'']]<br /> <br /> Fans and critics of Tolkien's works have observed several ambiguously '''Racist and race-based elements'''; these go further into stereotyping or symbolism of good versus evil in the Tolkien's [[legendarium]]. As early as the first edition of the Lord of the Rings this topic was discussed, including by [[C.S. Lewis]] who wrote that people who dislike a clear demarcation of good and evil ''"imagine they have seen a rigid demarcation between black and white people."''<br /> <br /> Tolkien's legendarium also makes many references to topics related by extension to racialism, such as eugenics, bloodlines, and (by extension) even the superiority of heredity over other authorities.<br /> <br /> Some of these accusations of racism may be partially explained by a wider reading of Tolkien's works or a deeper thematic analysis, and others are more difficult to dismiss. In Tolkien's extensive letters one can find both comments that can be interpreted as racism as well as defense against the accusations.<br /> <br /> [[Christine Chism]] mentions the issue of racism in the ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment|J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia]]'', where she distinguishes accusations as falling into three categories: intentional racism, unconscious [[Wikipedia:Eurocentrism|Eurocentric]] bias, and an evolution from latent racism in Tolkien's early work to a conscious rejection of racist tendencies in his late work.<br /> <br /> In the Foreword to the revised edition of ''The Lord of the Rings'', Tolkien cautioned strongly against viewing it as an allegory, saying that he disliked allegory himself. Furthermore, according to his own claims, Tolkien denounced Hitler, Nazi beliefs, "race-doctrine" and apartheid and praised the Jews, calling them a "gifted people" (see below).<br /> <br /> The global popularity of [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]] has done much to perpetuate popular interest in, as well as criticism of, Tolkien's writing. <br /> <br /> ==Indications==<br /> <br /> ===Orcs===<br /> The mostly white Free Peoples of Middle-Earth doing battle with the hordes of beast-like orcs is seen by some as an indication of racism. <br /> <br /> Of the orcs, the [[Uruk-Hai]] are described as "black <ref>''The Lord of the Rings'' book two chapter 5: ''"some are large and evil: black Uruks of Mordor"'' and appendix A: ''"In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks, black orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor"''</ref> and a smaller orc, a tracker, is described as "black-skinned".<ref>''The Lord of the Rings'' book six chapter 2 ''"it was of a small breed, black-skinned, with wide and snuffling nostrils: evidently a tracker of some kind."''</ref> All orcs are often described as "slant-eyed" and the Uruk-Hai at least refer to the Rohirrim as 'white skins.' In one of his letters, Tolkien described Orcs as ''"...squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes; in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types."''([[Letter 210]]) <br /> <br /> While Tolkien's statement comparing Orcs to the "Mongol-types" is undoubtedly insensitive given today's standards, he does put a disclaimer, "(to Europeans,)" before "least lovely", at least recognizing Western cultural bias and also points out that they were "degraded and repulsive versions" of "Mongol-types", not actual "Mongol-types". It is worth noting that some Orcs use crooked or bent swords (Tolkien also uses the term scimitar, which are historically associated with the Middle-East).<br /> <br /> Orcs however, are not men. Unlike the wicked men who serve the Enemy, who might have been enslaved or beguiled, orcs are portrayed as irredeemably evil, or at least having a redemption outside the scope of the narrative. The origin of orcs is not clear, but they may be products of Morgoth's sorcery, or the descendants of tortured and ruined elves or men. Regardless of their origins they are not presented as a natural race.<br /> <br /> ===Light vs. Dark===<br /> Some critics have declared that there is racism in Tolkien's works through his use of the words such as "light" and "white" vs. "dark" or "black". In 2002, John Yatt in ''The Guardian'' wrote: "White men are good, 'dark' men are bad, orcs are worst of all."<ref>The Guardian (2 December 2002)</ref>. Other critics such as [[Tom Shippey]] and [[Michael D.C. Drout]] disagree with such clear-cut generalizations of Tolkien's "white" and "dark" men into good and bad.<br /> <br /> The whole of Tolkien's Legendarium contains a conflict between ''literal'' light (The Trees, the [[Silmarils]]) and darkness (the literal absence of light). Morgoth's standard was ''"sable unblazoned"'' (that is, plain black). ''"Mordor"'' means "black land" in Sindarin. This ongoing clash may be interpreted as containing racial symbolism of light skinned versus dark skinned peoples, although Eol, father of Maeglin was known as the Dark Elf, and the Moriquendi were called the Elves of Darkness, although both these terms refer to remaining outside the light of the two trees, not to skin tone. The [[Black Númenóreans]] are likewise named because of the color of their allegiance to Sauron and their heraldry, not their skin tone.<br /> <br /> But white is not associated only with Good. [[Saruman]] the White has the [[White Hand]] as his symbol. Similarly black is not only associated with evil as Gondor uses a black standard bearing the White Tree, and the Guards of the Citadel of Minas Tirith wore black chain mail. In [[The Peoples of Middle-earth]], three Númenórean ships are followed by a boat with black sails. One of the mariners explains to a native of Middle-earth, scared that the black sails indicate doom, that the blackness is in fact a thing of beauty, the night sky of Elbereth (who kindled the stars). Indeed, Tolkien states that one of Morgoth's (literally, the ''Black Enemy'') victories was in associating darkness and night with fear and evil.<br /> <br /> ===Evil Men===<br /> One potentially racist element in Middle-Earth is that the majority of the men who serve Sauron are the dark-skinned peoples of the [[Easterlings (First Age)|Easterling]]s and [[Southrons]]. They come from the South and East of Middle-Earth, corresponding with Asia and Africa in the loose connection between Middle-Earth geography and that of the real world.<br /> The Easterlings are aligned with Morgoth or Sauron with the exception of Bór's folk. They are described as being of fairly dark skin complexion, swarthy and exceedingly cruel. The Southrons (or Haradrim) are described as black-skinned, cruel and evil, and are apparently at least inspired by Indian cultures with traits such as fighting on [[Mumakil]]-back. <br /> <br /> In some cases, people having the slightest blood relation to enemies, like [[Freca]] and [[Wulf]], who are related to the [[Dunlendings]], are presented as evil themselves, as if evilness is hereditary. Some of these are also called "swarthy" (dark). Bill Ferny is said to be swarthy, and this can be traced to his Dunlending ancestry.<br /> <br /> While the Easterlings and the Haradrim are dark-skinned people in the service of the Enemy, the [[Woses]] are primitive, small, and alien compared to other peoples (their chief Ghan-buri-Ghan only wears a grass skirt) yet they are valuable allies (in ''The Return of the King''). While Tolkien does not mention their skin colour, they were considered monsters by the Rohirrim who hunted them as animals, which the narrative explicitly condemns. However in the First Age they were counted as ''Edain'', or noble Men, and were allies of the Elves.<br /> <br /> However, not all enemies are non-white. Noteworthy examples are Saruman, [[Gríma]], [[Gollum]], and at least two of the [[Nazgûl]]. Also [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]] and the [[ruffians]] are white-skinned characters who ravage and take over [[the Shire]]. Indeed, while during the timeframe of Lord of the Rings those enslaved and serving Sauron are darker skinned people from the South and East, during the history of Middle-Earth many of the white races of man and even some Elves were fooled and coerced by the Enemy. <br /> <br /> Tolkien also wrote that the [[Blue Wizards]], who do not appear in '''The Lord of the Rings'' narrative, were sent into the South and East lands to spread dissent and resistance against Sauron. While he wrote on one occasion (as given in ''[[Unfinished Tales]]'') that they failed, on another occasion (as given in ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'') he wrote that they were successful, making Sauron's hold on these lands throughout the centuries significantly weaker than it should have been. This prevented Sauron from overwhelming the West with his armies and ultimately contributed to his defeat in the War of the Ring. This means that Southrons and Easterlings resisting Sauron were meant to exist, only that their stories remain untold.<br /> <br /> ===Racism in Middle-earth===<br /> Tolkien portrays racism within the "heroic" races as unabashedly negative. Elves and Dwarves distrust each other. Some Elves hunted the Petty-dwarves as animals, as did the Rohirrim to the [[Woses]]. The friendship between [[Legolas]] and [[Gimli]] is portrayed as unusual but commendable, and several scenes illustrate them learning to understand and respect each other's cultural differences. When [[Gimli]] takes a strand of [[Galadriel]]'s hair, he is described as having ''"look[ed] into the heart of an enemy and saw there love and understanding."''<br /> <br /> It is notable that there is apparently racism within the ranks of Orcs as the Uruk-hai held themselves as superior to the common Orcs, whom they called ''snaga'' (slave).<br /> <br /> The point-of-view characters of the book -- the hobbits -- are themselves of a race that is frequently described as being overlooked, under-estimated, and lightly regarded by the other races of Middle-earth, yet they often demonstrate far greater courage and nobility than the races who denigrate them. They are not without prejudice, however, and Gandalf is shown reprimanding Frodo for his comments on [[Barliman Butterbur]].<br /> <br /> The Númenóreans of Gondor fell to infighting because of a supposed need for racial purity, especially concerning the ancestry of their king (the [[Kin-strife]]), and grew weaker as a result. In this affair, the villain was the pure-blooded Númenórean [[Castamir]] while the hero was the half-Númenórean [[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]].<br /> <br /> ===Dwarves as Jews===<br /> <br /> Tolkien himself compared Dwarves to Jews: <br /> {{quote|"The dwarves of course are quite obviously - wouldn't you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic obviously, constructed to be Semitic."|J.R.R. Tolkien<ref>http://www.daisy.freeserve.co.uk/jrrt_int.htm</ref>}}<br /> One may interpret this comment in many ways. It should be noted that he only made an explicit connection between the dwarf-language [[Khuzdul]] to Semitic languages. In another letter, he makes the same comparison, but this time it is explicitly about both peoples being dispossessed of their lands, forced to wander the world, and adopt the languages of other lands: both were "at once natives and aliens in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue…" ([[Letter 176]])<br /> <br /> Throughout the books, Tolkien paints a mostly positive picture of the dwarves ([[Gimli]] of course is brave and honourable, and it is stated in one of the Appendices to The Lord of the Rings that "few Dwarves ever served the enemy willingly", contrary to the tales of Men) and elsewhere he made explicitly positive statements about the Jewish people. <br /> <br /> However, one of the weaknesses of the Dwarves was their greed for gold and other riches, amplified by the [[Seven Rings]]. Some see a connection between this and the stereotype of the Jewish usurer. It is also possible to draw a connection between the bearded Dwarves and the beards of Orthodox Jews.<br /> <br /> ===Númenóreans===<br /> <br /> Tolkien has divine beings blessing or gifting peoples or persons and their descendants, having thus the concept of the [[chosen people]] who differ from others — in Tolkien's case, the Dúnedain (literally "Men of the West") of Númenor. It should be also noted that according to Theosophy, Ariosophy and Nazism<ref>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race#Occultism</ref>, the Aryan race is supposedly descended from [[Atlantis]].<ref>Alfred Rosenberg, [[Wikipedia:The_Myth_of_the_Twentieth_Century|The Myth of the Twentieth Century]]</ref><br /> <br /> Although gifted, many of Tolkien's Númenóreans are evil. In the Appendices to the Return of the King, Númenórean fleets sail to Middle Earth, where they conquer and subjugate native peoples in what may be a commentary on European imperialism. The Númenóreans ultimately cause their own downfall by following the teachings of Morgoth, conducting human sacrifices, and making war on Valinor. At least some of the Nazgûl are Númenóreans.<br /> <br /> ==Counterindications==<br /> Tolkien's defenders assert that many criticisms of racism and elitism leveled at ''The Lord of the Rings'' and other writings are oversimplifications and generalizations, and do not take account of everything the author may have written concerning these matters.<br /> <br /> *The symbolism of light as good and dark as evil is a prehistoric dichotomy present in a great many cultures, Western and otherwise. It is also a part of Christianity (John 8:12 Jesus Christ said, "I am the Light of the World, Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."). Variations such as the Manicheeist heresy and further the ancient religion of Persia - Zoroastrianism.<br /> <br /> *Tolkien was English, and wanted to make a mythology for England. Therefore he wrote ''The Lord of the Rings'' according to his people's point of view. He could not make his protagonists, say, Incan or Japanese, or even put the setting anywhere else than (an alternative) North-western Europe, in spirit if not in actuality.<br /> <br /> *Tolkien only made precise ''geographic'' correspondences of Third Age Middle-earth locations to those in the real world. For example, [[Hobbiton]] was at the latitude of Oxford. The Shire was based upon, but ''was not actually'' rural England, since "the lands have changed" since then. Tolkien made no precise correspondences regarding the ''peoples'' concerned. Though the Hobbits were based upon rural English folk, they were not literally ancient Englishmen. He never said that Harad was Africa, nor the Eastlands Asia, nor their inhabitants ancestors of Africans or Asians. ''The Silmarillion'' presents tales of a time when the Earth's lands were different from that in the Third Age. <br /> <br /> *Not only the East and South are associated with evil, and neither were they always so. In the First Age, evil came from the North when Morgoth based himself in [[Angband]]. Also, all Men and Elves first awoke in the East. Boromir is introduced as a "man of the South" without qualification (actually South-west).<br /> <br /> *The white but darker-skinned Dunlendings themselves are descendants of the [[Edain]] (through the [[House of Haleth]]), therefore distant though unrecognized relatives of the Dunedain of Numenor, and their ancestors grew hostile to the Dunedain due to the latter despoiling their forests. The mostly benign and hearty men of Bree are descended from Dunlendings. <br /> <br /> *In the War of the Ring, the human enemies are not truly evil, since they are described as deceived, enslaved or exploited. Sam sees a dead warrior of Harad and wonders if he was truly evil — or rather deceived or coerced to go to war (see below). The Dunlendings are persuaded by Saruman to attack Rohan, playing on their grievances due to Gondor giving what they considered their land to the Eotheod, the ancestors of the Rohirrim. Earlier, Sauron persuaded their ancestors to fight against the Numenoreans, the cause of their relocation from forests into the hills.<br /> <br /> *Tolkien does not actually mention the physical features of the Easterlings in ''The Lord of the Rings''; however the Easterlings of ''The Silmarillion'' are described as either sallow or swarthy. There is no certainty that the Easterlings of the First Age are the same people as those of the Third Age though: in fact, many of the "white" Men of Eriador are indicated to be descendants of the First Age Easterlings. <br /> <br /> *Tolkien first describes the Haradrim in ''The Lord of the Rings'' as tall, dark, and looking fierce and nasty (according to [[Gollum]]), with long black hair, painted faces and gold earrings and ornaments. Later a warrior of Harad who falls at Sam's feet has black plaits of hair braided with gold. Notably, the author does not describe them as black, nor their hair as kinky, nor give them any other typical sub-Saharan African features. <br /> <br /> *All the "superior" people, be they Elves, Edain or Dunedain, have no direct analogues in peoples of the real world. If the Dunedain could be put somewhere, they would belong in [[Atlantis]], since Numenor was Middle-Earth's counterpart to Plato's Atlantis. The Rohirrim, who have been parallelled to blond and fair Europeans, are "inferior" to them, being Middle Men, in their view.<br /> <br /> *Kings, princes, heirs and noblemen as protagonists is not necessarily an advocation of blood nobility, since it is a theme and concept common in myths and fairy-tales. Also, [[Samwise Gamgee]] represents the common man, and sees insights that more "noble" characters apparently do not, such as the true situation of the human enemies. Note that in a letter (#131), Tolkien states that Sam is the chief hero of the whole book.<br /> <br /> *There are no truly "perfect" peoples in Tolkien's writings, save perhaps the [[Vanyar]]. Given that Tolkien loved trees and nature in general, having his Numenoreans wantonly cut down trees for ships is decidedly negative. The Noldor rebelled against the Valar and killed their fellow Elves.<br /> <br /> ==''Lord of the Rings'' and Fascism==<br /> <br /> In Italy, ''Lord of the Rings'' is considered fascist by some groups and Italian fascist organisations are allegedly using the book for recruiting.<ref>http://www.johnreilly.info/ata.htm</ref> According to Italian website [http://www.caltanet.it/frm/cinema/ Caltanet], [[Wikipedia:Alleanza Nazionale|Alleanza Nazionale]], a right-oriented Italian political party, had taken a picture from ''Fellowship of the Ring'' movie to promote a speech by his leader, [[Wikipedia:Gianfranco Fini|Gianfranco Fini]].<ref>http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1001628604</ref><br /> <br /> Tolkien's works have also been embraced by self-admitted racists such as the British National Party.<ref>The Sunday Times - [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article804465.ece The BNP has declared Lord of the Rings essential reading. They’re not the only extremists to get the wrong idea]</ref><br /> <br /> ==Relevant Passages from the text==<br /> {{quote|It is not unlikely that they <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Orcs]]<nowiki>]</nowiki> invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosions always delighted them"|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "Over-Hill and Under-Hill"}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil at heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}<br /> <br /> ==Tolkien on Racism==<br /> {{quote|I must say that the enclosed letter from Rutten & Loening is a bit stiff. Do I suffer this impertinence because of the possession of a German name, or do their lunatic laws require a certificate of arisch origin from all persons of all countries? ... Personally I should be inclined to refuse to give any ''Bestätigung'' (although it happens that I can), and let a German translation go hang. In any case I should object strongly to any such declaration appearing in print. I do not regard the (probable) absence of all Jewish blood as necessarily honourable; and I have many Jewish friends, and should regret giving any colour to the notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine.|[[Letter 29]] — Tolkien's German publishers had asked whether he was of Aryan origin}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|Thank you for your letter... I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by ''arisch''. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware noone [sic] of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people.|[[Letter 30]] (Tolkien's unsent response to his German publishers; a more neutral version was ultimately sent)}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|There was a solemn article in the local paper seriously advocating systematic exterminating of the entire German nation as the only proper course after military victory: because, if you please, they are rattlesnakes, and don't know the difference between good and evil! (What of the writer?) The Germans have just as much right to declare the Poles and Jews exterminable vermin, subhuman, as we have to select the Germans: in other words, no right, whatever they have done.|J.R.R. Tolkien — September 23, 1944}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|I have the hatred of apartheid in my bones; and most of all I detest the segregation or separation of Language and Literature. I do not care which of them you think White.|From a [[Valedictory Address to the University of Oxford]] in [[1959]]}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|As for what you say or hint of ‘local’ conditions: I knew of them. I don't think they have much changed (even for the worse). I used to hear them discussed by my mother; and have ever since taken a special interest in that part of the world. The treatment of colour nearly always horrifies anyone going out from Britain, & not only in South Africa. Unfort[unately], not many retain that generous sentiment for long.|[[Letter 61]] — Written to Christopher Tolkien who was stationed in South Africa during World War II}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|Anyway, I have in this War a burning private grudge—which would probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler (for the odd thing about demonic inspiration and impetus is that it in no way enhances the purely intellectual stature: it chiefly affects the mere will). Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light.|[[Letter 45]]}}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> <br /> *[http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/11/29/is-it-true-there-is-racism-in-the-lord-of-the-rings/ Is It True There is Racism in The Lord of the Rings?] by [[Michael Martinez]]<br /> *[http://tolkien.slimy.com/faq/External.html#Racist Portion of a Tolkien FAQ attempting to give an answer to the matter]<br /> *[http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jan/08lord.htm Critique of the Lord of the Rings as an 'epic rooted in racism' by Dr Shapiro]<br /> *[http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/chi-030112epringsrace,0,4574891.story 'Lord' of racism? Critics view trilogy as discriminatory] by Chicago Tribune<br /> {{references}}<br /> [[Category:Debates]]<br /> [[category:Tolkien criticism]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2019&diff=308505 User talk:Mith/2019 2019-11-20T20:23:41Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015|2016|2017|2018}}<br /> <table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''&rArr; Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table><br /> <br /> <br /> ==Enormous New Tolkien Exhibit!==<br /> <br /> Hey Mith, check this out! This is huge!<br /> http://www.openculture.com/2019/01/the-largest-j-r-r-tolkien-exhibit-in-generations-is-coming-to-the-u-s.html<br /> <br /> --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> :Check the location on my profile. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:26, 14 January 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Wow. I'm such a Took. Sorry. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> == Hobitit ==<br /> <br /> Why didn't anyone edit this page before? You could have added these information before me. {{unsignedanon|80.107.134.88}}<br /> <br /> :I could, but I didn't. There is no commissioning editor for Tolkien Gateway, so each user edits what they want to edit. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:13, 7 June 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Middle-earτh Shadow of War ==<br /> <br /> Hello.Can you upload at least one image related to the videogame [[Middle-earth: Shadow of War|Middle-earth Shadow of War]]?I don't have the ability to upload images on Tolkien Gateway but you do. {{unsignedanon|94.64.73.128}}<br /> <br /> :I do, but I don't want to do it! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:31, 8 June 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Only one image and nothing more. {{unsignedanon|94.64.73.128}}<br /> <br /> :::Nope. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:48, 10 June 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reverts to [[Kings' Reckoning]] edits? ==<br /> <br /> Is there a particular reason why ''all'' my edits over the past year to the [[Kings' Reckoning]] have been reverted? I tried to keep my revisions contained so if there was some problem with one of them, that 1 revision could easily be reverted, but why revert them all? Even adding a ''fact'' tag and a link to [[Elven]] had to be reverted? --[[User:Murlo|Murlo]] 07:08, 11 June 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Apologies, I only saw the latest edit and I only intended to revert that rather than the, all. The reason for wanting to revert the last one is we generally use <nowiki>{{sources}}</nowiki> over repeated <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki>s. Sorry about that; I was rushing and must have missed that you had other edits there. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:50, 11 June 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::OK, I see now. Thanks for the clarification. Maybe I'll make note of the translations that still need sources in that article's talk page instead. --[[User:Murlo|Murlo]] 21:25, 11 June 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Please stop editing my talk page (it being mine). Don't feel the need to reply to this message. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:14, 28 July 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Amazon Middle-earth series ==<br /> <br /> Why doesn't someone create page about the Amazon Middle-earth series? {{unsignedanon|80.107.122.67}}<br /> <br /> :I don't know, I can't speak for everyone. As I explainted above to 80.107.134.88, the things that get edited and created and are the things the editors want to do. No one directs the editors to what they "should" edit. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:34, 28 July 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Image ==<br /> <br /> Hello. I would like to upload images on Tolkien Gateway. Can you allow me? {{unsigned|Gegou}}<br /> <br /> :No. You have to have a certain number of edits before you can; it happens automatically. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:39, 2 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Template:Webcite==<br /> Hi, can we please have the [[Template:Webcite]] with the <nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki> tags? I have to copy it from somewhere else, as it is incomplete. Or there is any reason why it must be just like that? Thanks. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 11:28, 6 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :"<nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki>" isn't part of the template so shouldn't be included in the usage information; there are (albeit rare) occasions where someone will use <nowiki>{{webcite}}</nowiki> without using <nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki> tags (such as when part of another template). I'm sure you can remember to type "<nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki>". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 28 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Changing username==<br /> Hi, Ederchil told me to ask you: Would it be possible to change my username? I started editing a few things and now I'm non stopping and it feels weird having my name everywhere. No hurry, and if it's too complicated, I'll keep editing as always. Thanks! --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Unfortunately in our version of the MediaWiki software this isn't possible. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:14, 28 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Oh... Thanks anyways.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 14:59, 28 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaint ==<br /> <br /> Fool. Why did you do that? After all I have done in Tolkien Gateway? You only know how to blog other users don't you? {{unsigned|Gegou}}<br /> <br /> :I blocked you because I asked you to remove plagiarised material and you didn't do so, and secondly to upload files in line with our naming conventions, which you also failed to do. If you continue to persist in breaching policy you will continue to get blocked. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:17, 22 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaint as well ==<br /> <br /> Really, you had to delete my article? I understand that it is a race of spiders, but still, I felt it was important to show their portrayal in "Flies and Spiders". I spent over an hour on that! Look, I get it. You're an administrator. But next time, please, let me make a copy before you delete it so I can have it in my personal archives. I like to keep what I write, even if it is just to myself, and you just deleted hours of work.<br /> <br /> Aha, I've just found this quote on the Tolkien Gateway official page! Tolkien Gateway is determined to inform you as much as possible about J.R.R. Tolkien and his masterpieces. Our goal is to have the most complete database about Middle-earth and Tolkien as possible. Do you not consider me as helping inform? If you want "the most complete database", then you're going to have to dive in to every little thing. Such as, Mirkwood Spiders. {{unsigned|Shelob'sWeb}}<br /> <br /> :There is already an article on [[Spiders]] in this website. You could mention the Mirkwood spiders in there if you wish to do so instead of writing another article on a certain branch of spiders, especially as the Spiders article needs cleanup and expansion. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> ::Indeed, that's exactly where a reference to Mirkwood spiders should go. But more specific information on why I deleted the article:<br /> <br /> ::* It had no categories<br /> ::* It had no references<br /> ::* It had no introduction<br /> ::* It had no body as described in [[TG:MOS]]<br /> ::* It was mostly one long quote from Flies and Spiders, and probably better within that article. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:05, 8 October 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Question about Pictures ==<br /> <br /> I haven't reached enough edits to put up pictures, but I intend to. Could you explain to me how fair use of them works and how I can upload them staying within guidelines?<br /> <br /> == Version ==<br /> Just relaized we still run on MediaWiki 1.17. That's a version from 2011, the most recent stable release is 1.33.1. Everything below vanilla 1.31 is no longer supported. Is an update feasible? There won't be much use for many of the features, but in terms of security and performance it's always better to keep up to date. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:23, 20 November 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:George_Tolkien&diff=308463 Talk:George Tolkien 2019-11-19T05:24:40Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>Should we change his name to George Tolkien? See niedziela's article [http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/2018/01/george-tolkien-178418-not-george-william.html George Tolkien (1784–1840) – not George William!] in Tolknięty (7.l.2018). --Tik 17:03, 20 October 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Yes. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:13, 18 November 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::That is not how a move should be made. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:24, 19 November 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Varda&diff=308393 Varda 2019-11-17T10:19:40Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by 179.107.143.205 (talk) to last revision by LorenzoCB</p> <hr /> <div>{{Expansion}}<br /> {{Disambig-more|Elbereth|[[Elbereth (disambiguation)]]}}<br /> {{valar infobox<br /> | name=Varda<br /> | image=[[File:NOLANOS - La Dama de las Estrellas.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption="La Dama de las Estrellas" by [[:Category:Images by NOLANOS|NOLANOS]]<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames='''Elbereth Gilthoniel''' ([[Sindarin|S]])</br>"The Kindler", "Lady of the Stars", "Queen of the Stars", "Snow-white", "Star-queen", "Star-kindler"<br /> | titles=Queen of the [[Valar]], <br /> | position=The [[stars]]<br /> | location=[[Ilmarin]], [[Taniquetil]]<br /> | affiliation=[[Ilmarë]] and [[Gandalf|Olórin]]<br /> | language=<br /> | notablefor=<br /> | siblings=<br /> | spouse=[[Manwë]]<br /> | gender=Female<br /> | height=<br /> | hair=<br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=<br /> | steed=<br /> }}<br /> {{quote|O stars that in the Sunless Year<br>With shining hand by her were sown,<br>In Windy fields now bright and clear<br>We see your silver blossom blown!|[[Elven Hymn to Elbereth|Hymn to Elbereth]]}}<br /> '''Varda Elentári''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. [[Noldorin|N]] {{IPA|[ˈvarda ˌelenˈtaːri]}}, [[Vanyarin|V]] {{IPA|[ˈβarda ˌelenˈtaːri]}}), known in [[Sindarin]] as '''Elbereth Gilthoniel''' (pron. {{IPA|[ˈelbereθ ɡilˈθonjel]}}), was a [[Valar|Valië]], one of the [[Aratar]], the wife of [[Manwë]] and Queen of the Valar. <br /> <br /> Varda knows all the regions of [[Eä]] and rejoices in light. She was said to be too beautiful for words as within her face radiated the light of [[Ilúvatar]]. Elves love and revere her most of all the Valar, and they call upon her in their hours of deepest darkness.<ref name=vala/> She appeared in shining white ''[[fana]]'' in visions to the Elves of Middle-earth, and thus was called [[Fanuilos]] (Snow-white).<ref>{{RGEO|7}}, p. 74</ref><br /> <br /> Her handmaiden is [[Ilmarë]], a Chief of the [[Maiar]] but [[Gandalf|Olórin]] also served her.<ref>{{S|IIc}}</ref><br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> [[Image:Ted Nasmith - Varda and Manwë in Valinor.jpg|thumb|left|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Varda and Manwë in Valinor'']]<br /> When [[Morgoth|Melkor]] first began to create his discord, Varda saw his mind, and despised him. Melkor feared and hated Varda the most out of the Valar. In the beginning Melkor had been unable to control light, which Varda was most associated with. When [[Manwë]] [[First War|contested]] with him for [[Arda]], Varda came from the deeps of Eä to his side.<ref name=vala>{{S|IIb}}</ref> The Maiar Ilmarë and Olorin were affiliated with her.<br /> <br /> During the [[Spring of Arda]], she filled the [[Two Lamps]] with light.<ref>{{S|1}}</ref> After their destruction at the hands of Melkor, Varda and the rest of the Ainur forsook the outer lands and removed to Aman. <br /> <br /> She resided with [[Manwë]] in [[Ilmarin]] and aids him in the rule of [[Arda]]. With her, Manwë sees beyond all eyes, through mist and darkness, and with him, Varda can hear all voices from every corner of the world.<ref name=vala/> In [[Valinor]] she kept the dews of the [[Two Trees]] in the [[Wells of Varda]]. When Mandos foretold of the coming of the Elves and how they would always look to Varda in reverence, she took it upon herself to set new stars for the Elves to see when they awakened. She created the newer stars with the dews from the vats of [[Telperion]], the first of the [[Two Trees]], in preparation for [[Awakening of the Elves]]. The set of stars she made was known as the Sickle of the Valar. This was said to be the greatest labour of the Valar since the beginning of time, and when the Elves awoke in Middle-earth they beheld first the stars which Varda had made. For this, Varda is the Vala most loved and revered by the [[Elves]].<ref>{{S|Captivity}}</ref><ref name=vala/><br /> <br /> She also hallowed the [[Silmarils]] of [[Fëanor]] when he created them, so that any being or creature of evil could never handle them without being burned.<ref>{{S|7}}</ref> After the death of the Two Trees, Varda was tasked once again with filling the world with a new light. Therefore she took the remaining flower of Telperion and the fruit of Laurelin and placed them in vessels made by Aulë. Varda bequeathed to them such light and power that they outshone the ancient stars. In doing so, she established the courses of the [[Sun]] and [[Moon]].<ref>{{S|Sun}}</ref> Initially she purposed the Sun and the Moon to be in the sky together, but Irmo and Estë pointed out that she had deprived the world of night-time and the stars, which was still necessary for rest and sleep. Therefore Varda changed her counsel and altered the courses of the Sun so that it should spend a certain time hidden, allowing for the stars to be seen again. At the end of the [[First Age]], she placed [[Eärendil]] [[Star of Eärendil|as a star]] in the sky.<ref>{{S|Earendil}}</ref><br /> <br /> In [[Middle-earth]], she was revered by the Elves who called her name and sung hymns to her (such as the [[Elven Hymn to Elbereth]]) and perhaps answered to prayers, even to [[Samwise Gamgee]].<ref>{{TT|Lair}}</ref> The very mention of her name was said to be deadly to evil spirits, such as when Frodo uttered the name in the presence of the Morgul Lord.<br /> <br /> ==Etymology==<br /> ''Varda'' is a [[Quenya]] name,<ref>{{PE|21}}, p. 82</ref> meaning "sublime" or "lofty", from [[Primitive Quendian]] ''[[baradâ]]'', merged with ''[[barathî]]''.{{fact}} In [[Telerin]], this name is translated as ''[[Baradis]]''.<br /> <br /> In [[Sindarin]], Varda is called ''Elbereth'', which derives from ''[[elen]]-[[bereth]]'' meaning "star-queen" and represents evolution of [[Primitive Quendian]] *''[[elen]]-[[barathî]]'' (the final ''-i'' [[i-affection|umlauted]] the word to ''berethi'') > ''elemberethi'' > ''elbereth''.<ref>[[J.R.R. Tolkien]] and [[Donald Swann]], ''[[The Road Goes Ever On (book)|The Road Goes Ever On]]'', "[[A Elbereth Gilthoniel]]"</ref><br /> <br /> All of these names come from the [[Sundocarmë|Root]] [[BARAT|BARÁD/BARATH]].<ref name=Ety351>{{LR|Etymologies}}, p. 351</ref><br /> <br /> In [[Adûnaic]], Varda's name is adapted rather than translated, becoming '''Avradî'''.<br /> <br /> Varda's titles and epithets include ''The Kindler'', ''Lady of the Stars'', ''Queen of the Stars'', and ''Snow-white''. In [[Quenya]] these are ''[[Elentári]]'' "Star-queen", ''[[Tintallë]]'' "Star-kindler", and '''''[[Airë]] [[Tári]]''''' the "holy queen"<ref name=Shibb>{{PM|Shibboleth}}, pp. 363-4 (note 45)</ref>, in [[Sindarin]] '''Gilthoniel''' (Starkindler) and '''[[Fanuilos]]''' (Ever-white), and in [[Adûnaic]] '''Gimilnitîr''' "starkindler".<br /> <br /> Some older forms of her names are ''Bredhil'', ''Bridhil'', ''Timbridhil'', ''Tinwetári''<ref>{{LB|Index}}</ref> and ''Baráda''.<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, entry "[[BARAT]]"</ref><br /> <br /> ==Genealogy==<br /> {{familytree/start}}<br /> {{familytree| |,|-|-|-|.| | | | | | |}}<br /> {{familytree| MEL | | MAN |~| VAR | |MEL=[[Melkor]]|MAN=[[Manwë]]|VAR='''VARDA'''}}<br /> {{familytree/end}}<br /> <br /> ===Other versions of the legendarium===<br /> In Tolkien's early [[Qenya]], ''Vard-'' was a root referring to royalty. Related words were ''vardar'' "king" and ''vardo'' "prince"; they do not appear in the later inception of Quenya.<br /> <br /> ==Inspiration==<br /> The Valar, being divine beings below the ultimate Creator, [[Ilúvatar]], are thought of as being the [[Middle-earth]] equivalent of saints and angels; it has therefore been suggested that Varda, in her role as the most loved and prayed-to Vala, may be an equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Tolkien's own Catholic faith. Another suggestion is the goddess of wisdom, [[Wikipedia:Sophia (wisdom)|Sophia]], also associated with the stars.<ref>Rose Thomas, "Is Varda the Wisdom of Eru?", in ''[[Amon Hen]]'' 245, pp. 15-6</ref><br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> *[[:Category:Images of Varda|Images of Varda]]<br /> <br /> {{References}}<br /> <br /> {{Ainur}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Characters in The Book of Lost Tales]]<br /> [[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br /> [[Category:Quenya names]]<br /> [[Category:Valar]]<br /> <br /> <br /> [[de:Varda]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo/personnages/ainur/valar/aratar/varda]]<br /> [[fi:Varda]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Doriath&diff=308392 Doriath 2019-11-17T10:19:31Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{cleanup}}<br /> {{kingdom<br /> | image=[[File:Alan Lee - Beleg Departs from Menegroth.jpg|250px]]<br /> | name=Doriath<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=Eglador, The Guarded Realm, The Hidden Kingdom<br /> | location=Forests in central [[Beleriand]]<br /> | capital=[[Menegroth]]<br /> | towns=<br /> | regions=[[Neldoreth]], [[Region]], [[Nivrim]], [[Brethil]], [[Nan Elmoth]]<br /> | population=[[Sindar]]<br>Few [[Laiquendi]]<br /> | language=[[Sindarin]]<br /> | govern1=[[Thingol]] and [[Melian]]<br /> | govern2=Later [[Dior]]<br /> | govern3=<br /> | currency=<br /> | holiday=<br /> | precededby=<br /> | event1=Thingol awakes<br /> | event1date=c. {{YT|1152}}<br /> | event2=Building [[Menegroth]]<br /> | event2date={{YT|1300}}<br /> | event3=[[Girdle of Melian]] established<br /> | event3date={{YT|1497}}<br /> | event4=[[Dior]] becomes King<br /> | event4date={{FA|503}}<br /> | event5=Abandoned<br /> | event5date={{FA|506}}<br /> | followedby=<br /> }}<br /> {{Pronounce|Doriath.mp3|Ardamir}}<br /> '''Doriath''' ([[Sindarin|S]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈdorjaθ]}}) was the land of the [[Sindar]]. It was called the Fenced Land, for its queen, [[Melian]], put a girdle of enchantment about it, so that none could enter without King [[Thingol]]'s permission.<br /> <br /> ==Geography==<br /> Doriath was a realm of forests about the great river [[Sirion]], with in it the forests ''Neldoreth'' (also ''[[Taur-na-Neldor]]'', the northern [[Beeches|beech]] forest), ''[[Nivrim]]'' (also West-march, an oak forest), and ''[[Forest of Region|Region]]''. Additionally, the forests of ''[[Brethil]]'' and ''[[Nan Elmoth]]'' were held as part of Doriath, but these last two lay outside the Girdle of Melian. King Elu [[Thingol]] of Doriath, also High King of the Sindar, saw all of Beleriand as his realm, from the [[Gelion]] to [[Belegaer]].<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> ===Establishment===<br /> The [[Vanyar]] and [[Noldor]] had passed by it on the [[Great Journey]], and had been ferried across on [[Tol Eressëa]] by the time the [[Teleri]] arrived. Then their lord [[Elwë]] was lost in Nan Elmoth, and when [[Ulmo]] returned for them a part remained behind. They became known as the Sindar or Grey Elves, and when Thingol returned he became their king, ruling from Doriath.<br /> <br /> Doriath was originally named '''''[[Doriath#Etymology|Eglador]]''''',<ref name=SSindar/> but in the last years before the rising of the [[Sun]], attacks by [[Orcs]] and other [[Morgoth|Melkor]]'s creatures began to increase in Beleriand, and Melian fenced the forests of Neldoreth, Region, and Nivrim. Thingol then called all the [[Sindar]] to Doriath, but many remained in the wild. <br /> <br /> ===Other peoples===<br /> On Melian's advice, Thingol became an ally of the [[Dwarves of Belegost]], who carved the caverns of [[Menegroth]] for him.<ref name="Sindar"/><br /> <br /> In {{YT|1497}}, after the [[First Battle of Beleriand]], many [[Green-elves|Laiquendi]] removed to Doriath.<ref name="Sindar">{{S|10}}</ref> After the First Battle of Beleriand, Doriath was encircled by the [[Girdle of Melian]], an impenetrable fence of enchantment that guarded the kingdom.<ref name="Sindar">{{S|Sindar}}</ref> While his own kingdom was protected, Thingol was still loath to surrender any other lands in Beleriand to the Noldor as he was suspicious of the aggressive new lords in Middle-earth.<ref name="Return">{{S|Return}}</ref> King Thingol's relations with the Noldor were strained, and grew worse decades later when he learned the truth of the [[Kinslaying at Alqualondë]]. Thingol banned the use of [[Quenya]] in his lands, which led to [[Sindarin]] being the common Elven tongue in Middle-earth. The King of Doriath refused to aid the Noldor in the war against Morgoth, and took little part in the ongoing struggle.<ref>{{S|Noldor}}</ref><br /> <br /> [[Eöl]] the Dark Elf leased Nan Elmoth from Thingol, having paid the sword [[Anglachel]] for it. When later [[Men]] arrived in Beleriand, they were also refused entry, however at [[Finrod]]'s request the [[Haladin]] were allowed to live in [[Brethil]].<br /> <br /> [[Beren]], son of [[Barahir]] and lord of the [[House of Bëor|First House of Men]], passed through the Girdle as Melian had foretold, and arrived in Neldoreth. There Thingol's daughter Lúthien fell in love with him. After the Quest for the [[Silmarils|Silmaril]] the Wolf [[Carcharoth]] also breached the Girdle, but Thingol, Beren, and Thingol's captains [[Beleg]] and [[Mablung]] hunted and killed the beast.<br /> <br /> [[Túrin]] was sent to Doriath, and lived there until he came of age, when he fled from the land. Later his mother and sister, [[Morwen]] and [[Nienor]] lived there, until they were lost.<br /> <br /> ===Nauglamír===<br /> In {{FA|502}}, some time after Túrin's tragic death, Húrin, Túrin's father and now an old man, was allowed to enter Menegroth with a band of outlaws, where in anger he threw the [[Nauglamír]], the treasure of [[Nargothrond]] before King Thingol and "thanked" him for aiding his son. This infuriated the outlaws, who tried to take the gold back but were killed by Thingol's guards.<ref>{{LT2|IV}}</ref> Melian finally pierced through Húrin's madness and grief; shamed by his actions, he left Menegroth a broken man.<ref name="Doriath">{{S|Doriath}}</ref><br /> <br /> [[File:Henning Janssen - Nauglamir and the Doom of Thingol.jpg|thumb|left|[[Henning Janssen]] - ''Nauglamir and the Doom of Thingol'']]<br /> <br /> At that time a desire came into Thingol's heart to take the Nauglamír and place the Silmaril in it, thus melding together two of the greatest creations made by the Elves and the [[Dwarves]]. He hired some [[Dwarves of Nogrod|Dwarven craftsmen]] to do it for him. But by the time the Dwarves were finished they had become obsessed with the Nauglamír and asked for it as a payment for their labour. This infuriated Thingol realizing they were coveting the Silmaril. The Dwarves were angered by his harsh words, and killed him. This led to the [[Battle of the Thousand Caves|sacking of Menegroth]] in {{FA|503}} and the eventual [[Second Kinslaying|destruction of Doriath]], which scattered its people.<ref name="Doriath"/><br /> <br /> In {{FA|503}}, Doriath was briefly restored under Beren and Lúthien's son [[Dior|Dior Eluchíl]].<ref name="Doriath"/> Learning that the [[Silmaril]] is in Doriath, the [[Sons of Fëanor]] sent message to [[Dior]] requesting the return of the Silmaril. Dior does not answer.<ref name="Doriath"/><ref>{{WJ|Years}}, p. 351</ref>. However, in {{FA|506}}, Dior was attacked and killed by the [[Sons of Fëanor]], along with their followers. They assaulted Doriath with a surprise attack, in the middle of winter, and fought with Dior in the [[Menegroth|Thousand Caves]]. This was the second slaying of Elf by Elf. In that battle, Dior slew [[Celegorm]]. [[Curufin]] and [[Caranthir]] also fell. Dior was also slain along with his wife Nimloth. Eluréd and Elurín were seized, taken into the forest, and left to starve by the cruel servants of Celegorm.<ref name="Doriath"/> Maedhros repented of this act of vengeance and cruelty against the children, and he long sought for them in the woods, but "his search was unavailing," and the fate of Dior's sons is not known.<ref name="Doriath"/> By {{FA|507}}, Doriath was utterly destroyed following the [[Second Kinslaying]].<ref name="Doriath"/><br /> ==Etymology==<br /> <br /> ''Doriath'' is a [[Sindarin]] name meaning "Land of the Fence"<ref name=silmindex>{{S|Index}}</ref><ref name=WJ/> or "Land of the [[Girdle of Melian|Girdle]]"<ref name=SSindar>{{S|Sindar}}</ref>. The name consists of the elements ''[[dôr]]'' + ''[[iâth]]''.<ref name=WJ>{{WJ|Quendi}}, pp. 370, 378</ref><br /> <br /> The earlier name of Doriath, ''Eglador'', probably means either "Land of the Forsaken"<ref name=silmindex/> or "Land of the [[Elves]]"{{fact}} in [[Sindarin]].<br /> <br /> ==Other versions of the legendarium==<br /> <br /> '''Artanor''' ("The Land Beyond") was in early versions of the [[legendarium]] the name for what was later called Doriath.<ref>[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]; [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed), ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]''</ref><br /> {{references}}<br /> {{kinslayings}}<br /> [[Category:Beleriand]]<br /> [[Category:Doriath| ]]<br /> [[Category:Sindarin locations]]<br /> <br /> [[de:Doriath]]<br /> [[fi:Doriath]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo:geographie:royaumes:doriath]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=John_Vickery&diff=308246 John Vickery 2019-11-04T15:46:39Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>'''John Estill Vickery''' ([[4 November|November 4]], [[1950]]) is an American actor. Starting on stage in Shakespeare and Broadway, he appeared on television in guest appearances on many shows. He is probably best known for playing [[wikipedia:Neroon|Neroon]] on [[wikipedia:Babylon 5|''Babylon 5]]''. <br /> <br /> ==Roles==<br /> * [[1979]]: [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|NPR's ''The Lord of the Rings'']]: [[Legolas]], [[Gríma|Wormtongue]], [[Faramir]], [[The Mouth of Sauron]]<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> * '''[http://pretallez.com/onstage/ Unofficial Homepage]'''<br /> * {{WP|John Vickery}}<br /> * [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0896043/ John Vickery] at [http://www.imdb.com/ IMDb]<br /> * [http://www.ibdb.com/person.php?id=63238 John Vickery] at [http://www.ibdb.com/index.php IBDb]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Actors and actresses|Vickery, John]]<br /> [[Category:American people|Vickery, John]]<br /> [[Category:People by name|Vickery, John]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=First_War&diff=308239 First War 2019-11-03T19:19:18Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{war<br /> | previous= None<br /> | next=[[War for Sake of the Elves]]<br /> | image= <br /> | name=First War with Melkor<br /> | place=All of Arda<br /> | result=Victory for the [[Valar]], Formation of [[Arda]]<br /> | battles=Many and various<br /> | begin= [[Valian Year 1|VY 1]]<br /> | end= [[Valian Year 1499|VY 1499]]<br /> | side1=Valar and Maiar<br /> | side2=Melkor and Maiar<br /> | commanders1=[[Manwë]]<br /> | commanders2=[[Melkor]]<br /> }}<br /> The '''First War''' was a titanic struggle between the [[Valar]] and [[Melkor]] at the beginning of [[Arda]] for its dominion.<ref name=ainu/><br /> ==Prelude==<br /> When [[Ainur]] came to [[Arda]], before it was fully formed and anything dwelt, [[Melkor]] claimed it for himself. [[Manwë]] denied this, as it is the labour of the [[Ainur]]. Many [[spirits (creatures)|spirits]], including [[Varda]]<ref name=vala>{{S|IIb}}</ref>, came to Manwe's side from the deeps of [[Ea]].<ref name=ainu>{{S|I}}</ref> <br /> <br /> ==The War==<br /> Numerous undocumented battles began for the dominion of Arda.<ref name=ainu/><br /> <br /> While the [[Valar]] formed Arda, Melkor undid or marred whatever they made, demolishing mountains they created, raising up their valleys and spilling their seas, ever hindering their plans.<ref name=ainu/> Melkor mostly ruined the works of [[Aulë]] suffered most, and he grew weary repairing the damage and tumults by Melkor.<ref name=vala/> <br /> <br /> Presumably it was during that War that [[Ossë]] and [[Sauron]] were ensnared by Melkor.<ref>{{S|IIc}}</ref><ref>{{S|IId}}</ref><br /> <br /> Melkor prevailed for ages until news of the War reached far in heaven where other spirits remained. Learning of the War, [[Tulkas]] finally descended to Arda in [[Valian Years|Valian Year]] 1499. Hearing his mighty laughter, Melkor fled before Tulkas's anger and escaped beyond the [[Walls of Night]].<ref name=s1>{{S|1}}</ref><br /> <br /> ===Aftermath===<br /> The result of the War was that [[Arda Marred|Arda was marred]]. The completion of the world was hindered and its plan was altered. There was peace for a long time and thenceforth Tulkas was counted among the Valar. Tulkas and Aulë labored much to restore Arda and extinguish the fires.<ref name=s1/><br /> <br /> [[Aulë]] created the [[Two Lamps]] for the illumination of all Arda and the vegetation of [[Yavanna]], who planted her seeds that sprouted. The earth was filled with plants from mosses to large trees in the [[Spring of Arda]].<ref name=s1>{{S|1}}</ref> <br /> <br /> Melkor forsook Arda and brooded in the outer darkness for some time, and held a hatred of Tulkas forever after.<br /> <br /> Of that primordial duel the [[Elves]] knew only what the Powers told them of it.<ref name=ainu/><br /> <br /> ==Other versions of the Legendarium==<br /> In Tolkien's latest writings where Arda was a [[Round World version of the Silmarillion|round world]] from its beginning, this period of fire and cataclysm is said to correspond roughly with the earth's primeval epochs before this world became habitable for organic life. During these battles, it is said, the earth was given its elliptic orbit and the Moon broke away from the earth, both of which were caused by Melkor, though another version tells that the Valar wrought the Moon from the earth to counteract the night when Melkor was most active.<ref>{{MR|Myths}}</ref><br /> <br /> {{references}}<br /> [[Category:Conflicts of the Elder Days]]<br /> [[de:Erster Krieg]]<br /> [[fi:Ensimmäinen Sota]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Spiders_of_Mirkwood&diff=308157 Spiders of Mirkwood 2019-10-23T15:37:11Z

<p>Ederchil: Redirected page to Spiders</p> <hr /> <div>#REDIRECT[[Spiders]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=World_War_I&diff=308102 World War I 2019-10-17T14:02:51Z

<p>Ederchil: /* 1916 */</p> <hr /> <div>[[File:Tolkien 1916.jpg|right|thumb|Tolkien in 1916, wearing his British Army uniform.]]<br /> <br /> <center>{{quote|Who battled have with bloody hands<br>Through evil times in barren lands,<br>To whom the voice of guns<br>Speaks and no longer stuns...|[[Geoffrey Bache Smith]], ''[[A Spring Harvest]]''}}</center><br /> <br /> [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] served in the British Army during '''World War I''' (or the "'''Great War'''"), most notably in the bloody [[Battle of the Somme]]. The earliest works of the [[Legendarium]]&mdash;collected in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part Two]]''&mdash;were began during the conflict. The extent to which the war and Tolkien's experience of it are reflected in his written work is a matter of much interest in Tolkien scholarship.<br /> <br /> ==Participants==<br /> '''[[T.C.B.S.|Barrovians]]:'''<br /> *[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]<br /> *[[Christopher Wiseman]]<br /> *[[Robert Gilson]]†<ref name="Garth"/> <br /> *[[Geoffrey Bache Smith|G.B. Smith]]†<ref name="Garth"/> <br /> *[[Thomas Kenneth Barnsley|T.K. Barnsley]]†<ref name="Garth"/> <br /> *[[Ralph Payton]]†<ref name="Garth"/> <br /> <br /> '''Others'''<br /> * [[C.S. Lewis]]<ref>''[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433436/ The Question of God: Sigmund Freud & C.S. Lewis]''</ref><br /> * [[Hilary Tolkien]]<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * [[Hugo Dyson]], wounded at [[wikipedia:Battle of Passchendaele|Passchendaele]]<ref>[[Colin Duriez]], ''[[Tolkien and The Lord of the Rings]]'', "People and Places in His Life"</ref><br /> <br /> ==Timeline==<br /> :'''See also ''[[wikipedia:Timeline_of_World_War_I|Timeline of World War I]]'' at Wikipedia'''<br /> ===1914===<br /> * '''[[28 June|June 28]]''' - [[wikipedia:Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria|The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria]] in Sarajevo.<ref name="WP">[[wikipedia:World War I|World War I]] at [[wikipedia:Main Page|Wikipedia]]</ref><br /> * '''[[28 July|July 28]]''' - Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia. Russia mobilizes. The Great War begins.<ref name="WP"/><br /> * '''[[4 August|August 4]]''' - The British Empire declares war on Germany, following tension and conflict on the mainland in July.<ref name="WP"/><br /> * '''[[August]]''' - [[Hilary Tolkien]] joins the army as a bugler. [[Geoffrey Bache Smith]] and [[Robert Gilson]] join the army. [[Christopher Wiseman]] joins the navy instead. [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] plans to finish his education.<ref name="Garth">[[John Garth]], ''[[Tolkien and the Great War]]''</ref><br /> ===1915===<br /> * '''[[10 June|June 10]]''' - Exams start at Oxford University. Because of the war, only Tolkien and 24 others remain in the entire University. Tolkien passes.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[28 June|June 28]]''' - Tolkien applies at the Oxford recruiting office to join the army.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[15 July|July 15]]''' - Tolkien becomes a second lieutenant, and is appointed to the 13th Service Battalion of the Lancashire Fusilliers.<ref name="Garth"/> <br /> * '''[[25 September|September 25]]''' - The Big Four of the [[T.C.B.S.]] - Tolkien, Smith, Wiseman and Gilson - have their last meeting.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[21 November|November 21]]''' - G.B. Smith is shipped to France.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> ===1916===<br /> * '''[[2 January|January 2]]''' - Wiseman reports for duty at the [[wikipedia:HMS Superb (1907)|HMS Superb]] in [[wikipedia:Invergordon|Invergordon]].<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[8 January|January 8]]''' - Robert Gilson is promoted to Lieutenant and shipped to France.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[16 March|March 16]]''' - Tolkien receives his degree at the [[University of Oxford]].<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[22 March|March 22]]''' - Tolkien marries [[Edith Tolkien|Edith Bratt]].<ref name="Garth"/><ref name="Carpenter">[[Humphrey Carpenter]], ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography]]''</ref><br /> * '''[[31 May|May 31]] - [[1 June|June 1]]''' - Christopher Wiseman fights in the [[wikipedia:Battle of Jutland|Battle of Jutland]].<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[2 June|June 2]]''' - Tolkien receives orders to report in Folkestone, and prepare for embarking.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[4 June|June 4]]''' - Tolkien is shipped to Étaples, France.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[27 June|June 27]]''' - Tolkien leaves Étaples, and goes to the Somme front.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[1 July|July 1]]''' - One of the bloodiest battles in recent history, the [[Battle of the Somme]], starts. Robert Gilson is one of the first of the 360,000 British casualties when he is hit by a shell at La Boiselle.<ref name="Garth"/> <br /> * '''[[14 July|July 14]]''' - Tolkien's C-company is sent into action at the Somme front. This is Tolkien's first 5-day front-line duty.<ref name="Gilbert">Martin Gilbert, ''[http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=716&pageid=23&pagename=Arts What Tolkien Taught Me about the Battle of the Somme]''</ref><br /> * '''[[22 July|July 22]]''' - [[Ralph Payton|Ralph "the Baby" Payton]], one of the T.C.B.S., is killed in the Battle of the Somme. His body is never identified.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[24 July|July 24]]''' - Tolkien's second five day front-line duty begins.<ref name="Gilbert"/><br /> * '''[[19 August|August 19]]''' - Tolkien and G.B. Smith meet at Acheux.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[26 October|October 26]]''' - While in reserve, Tolkien's battalion is inspected by [[wikipedia:Douglas Haig, 1st Earl Haig|Sir Doulgas Haig]], the British commander at the Battle of the Somme.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[27 October|October 27]]''' – J.R.R. Tolkien is struck by trench fever, which ends his contribution to the war after just 5 months.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[28 October|October 28]]''' – Tolkien is hospitalized.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[8 November|November 8]]''' - Tolkien is repatriated. He now stays at a hospital in [[Birmingham]].<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[18 November|November 18]]''' - The Battle of the Somme ends. Neither side wins. Tolkien is officially stricken off as a casualty by his Battalion.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[29 November|November 29]]''' - G.B. Smith is hit by shrapnel, and wounded on his right arm and thigh.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[3 December|December 3]]''' - G.B. Smith dies of gas-gangrene in his wounds. The news does not reach Tolkien until the 16th.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[16 December|December 16]] - [[25 December|25]]''' - Tolkien recovers, and he and Edith visit [[Great Haywood]].<ref name="Garth"/><br /> <br /> ===1917===<br /> * '''[[12 January|January 12]]''' - Tolkien's leave of absence (to recover from his trench fever) ends, but he is far from recovered.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[29 January|January 29]]''' - Tolkien faces a Medical Board in Birmingham, but he is not deemed fit to return to war.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[February]]''' - Tolkien faces his second Medical Board, but is again deemed unfit for duty.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[27 February|February 27]]''' - Tolkien faces his third Medical Board, and again his leave is extended.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[18 April|April 18]]''' - Tolkien and Wiseman, the Great Twin Brethren, meet in Harrogate, and discuss the fate of the [[T.C.B.S.|Barrovians]] and the future of the Society.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[19 April|April 19]]''' - Tolkien, in revalidation, is assigned to the Humber Garrison, but is not fit enough.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[1 June|June 1]]''' - Tolkien is considered fit for service again, but he is not reassigned to the Lancashire Fusilliers.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[29 June|June 29]]''' - J.R.R. Tolkien succumbs to gastritis while at Brocton Camp.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[1 August|August 1]]''' - [[Thomas Kenneth Barnsley|"Tea Cake" Barnsley]] is killed in Ypres.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[13 October|October 13]]'''- Tolkien is found unfit for duty for six months, but able to do a desk job.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[November]]''' – Tolkien moves into [[50 St. John's Street]].<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[16 November|November 16]]''' - The Tolkien's first son, [[John Tolkien|John]], is born.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> <br /> ===1918===<br /> * '''[[11 October|October 11]]''' - Tolkien is officially released from Brooklands Hospital, Birmingham.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[11 November|November 11]]''' - The War comes to an end in a cease-fire.<ref name="WP"/><br /> ===1919===<br /> * '''[[17 February|February 17]]''' - [[Hilary Tolkien]] returns home.<ref>[[Hilary Tolkien]], [[Angela Gardner]] (ed.), ''[[Black & White Ogre Country]]'', page 50</ref><br /> * '''[[28 June|June 28]]''' - The war officially ends, with the signing of the Treaty of Versailles.<ref name="WP"/><br /> * '''[[15 July|July 15]]''' - Tolkien is released from service.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> * '''[[16 July|July 16]]''' - Tolkien is officially demobilized.<ref name="Garth"/><br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> <br /> *[http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/firstworldwar/people/p_tolkien_app.htm J.R.R. Tolkien's army commission application]<br /> *[http://johngarth.wordpress.com/2014/07/29/why-world-war-one-is-at-the-heart-of-lord-of-the-rings/ Why World War One Is at the heart of Lord of the Rings] by [[John Garth]]<br /> {{references}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:World War I| ]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Forums:Names_in_separated_pages&diff=307912 Forums:Names in separated pages 2019-10-06T14:52:49Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{Counciltop}}<br /> <br /> <br /> One of the main inconsistencies within TG are the different names for a character given randomly in separated pages, specially with the father/mother-names. For example, Maglor's amilesse has its own page ([[Makalaure]]), while Finarfin's ([[Ingalaurë]]) redirects to his character page. What should be do? I just added the adunaic name of [[Amandil]] and I wondered what's the policy about this. Separated articles for every single name or explain them within the sections of Etymology or Other names? --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 22:38, 5 October 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The thought at the time was (IIRC) that it was so all the words and phrases could be properly categorized. But time marches on, and this is actually pretty bad SEO. I'm okay with a merge; any language specific categories can be added to the redirects. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:52, 6 October 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Tolkien%27s_works_in_popular_media&diff=307686 Tolkien's works in popular media 2019-09-25T18:53:24Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>Over the years, many visual and verbal '''references''' have been made to the works of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]. While some of them predated [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|Peter Jackson's film trilogy]], most of them are references to the movie (or the movie's portrayal of [[Gollum]]).<br /> {| align="right"<br /> | __TOC__<br /> |}<br /> ==Comics==<br /> * See '''[[Tolkien's works in popular media/Comics]]'''<br /> ==Movies==<br /> ===[[wikipedia:17 Again|17 Again]]===<br /> * Ned Gold (Thomas Lennon), best friend of the protagonist 17 year-old Mike O'Donnell (Zac Efron), courts Jane Masterson (Melora Hardin), the high school principal who shares a mutual interest in The Lord of the Rings. They even discuss about the return of Gandalf the Grey as Gandalf the White in The Two Towers and converse in elvish.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:American Wedding|American Wedding]]===<br /> * Cadence, the sister of the bride, asks best man Stifler to see the wedding ring. When he refuses, she calls him "Frodo".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Avengers (2012 film)|The Avengers]]===<br /> * [[wikipedia:Iron Man|Iron Man]] at one point refers to archer [[wikipedia:Hawkeye (comics)|Hawkeye]] as "Legolas".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Brick (movie)|Brick]]===<br /> * The Pin and Brendan briefly discuss Tolkien's writing style.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Bring It on Again|Bring It on Again]]===<br /> * Tina calls Whittier a Hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Cellular (movie)|Cellular]]===<br /> *Jessica's son bears a school bag with the [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''Lord of the Rings'' film trilogy]] logo. ''Cellular'' was produced by [[New Line Cinema]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Clerks II|Clerks II]]===<br /> * Randal dislikes ''The Lord of the Rings'' - stating there is only one trilogy, and one Return - ''Star Wars'' and ''The Return of the Jedi'', respectively. He summarizes the movies as three movies of only walking, and mentions the many endings of ''The Return of the King''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Date Movie|Date Movie]]===<br /> * [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]], [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]], and [[Gandalf]] try to pawn off the One Ring, with Gandalf pleading that the Ring could "destroy all evil". Ignoring him, Frodo accepts fifty dollars; they then beat up Gandalf and run off to "get some wine coolers... and hookers!". [[wikipedia:Tom Lenk|Tom Lenk]] plays Frodo, [[wikipedia:Thomas Fitzpatrick|Tom Fitzpatrick]] [[Gandalf]] and Scott Bridges is Sam.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Deadpool (film)|Deadpool]]===<br /> * Vanessa calls the heavy bearded mercenary "fat Gandalf".<ref>{{webcite|author=Kenneth Turan|articleurl=http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-mn-deadpool-review-20160212-column.html|articlename=Review: Ryan Reynolds' 'Deadpool' mutant gets off to a fun start but eventually wears out his welcome|dated=11 February 2016|website=[http://www.latimes.com/ latimes.com]|accessed=29 April 2016}}</ref><br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Stephen King's Desperation (film)|Desperation]]===<br /> * Upon encountering someone named "[[Peter Jackson]]", Collie Entragian (Ron Perlman) mentions he liked ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Donnie Darko|Donnie Darko]]===<br /> <br /> *Drew Barrymore, portraying a literature teacher, writes '[[cellar door]]' on the board. Jake Gyllenhall, portraying Donnie Darko (the main character), asks 'what is that supposed to mean?' She explains: ''"This famous linguist once said that of all the phrases in the English language, of all the endless combinations of words in all of history, that Cellar Door is the most beautiful."'' In the DVD commentary, director Richard Kelly vaguely attributes this remark to Edgar Allan Poe.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Drillbit Taylor|Drillbit Taylor]]===<br /> * Emmitt, who is very small, is not very fond of being called a Hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Duplex (film)|Duplex]]===<br /> * Alex comments that a stool that is too small for him was designed for a Hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Epic Movie|Epic Movie]]===<br /> * Leading up to the final battle, Legolas and Gimli can be seen at the Gnarnian camp.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Futurama: Bender's Game|Futurama: Bender's Game]]===<br /> * In this tv-movie, Bender comes up with the world "Cornwood", and the entire plot then shifts to ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> *The map of Cornwood is actually one of [[Gondor]] and [[Mordor]] mirrored, where [[Mount Doom]] is replaced by the "Geysers of [[wikipedia:Gary Gygax|Gygax]]".<br /> *A toilet-bowl version of [[Minas Tirith]] is called "Wipe Castle"; it even has a mad leader.<br /> *Main characters Fry and Leela are renamed into Frydo and Leegola.<br /> *Professor Farnsworth becomes the Great Wizard Greyfarn.<br /> *Amy Wong is Gynacaladriel, queen of the Nympho's<br /> *The object that needs to be destroyed ("in the Geysers of Gygax from whence it came") is a anti-backwards crystal. It has the shape of a [[Dungeons and Dragons|D&D]]-die, and is therefore called "the Die of Power". A heavily Gollum-like Frydo refers to it as "my duodecalicious" (referring to its twelve sides).<br /> *The Die doubles as a ''[[palantír]]''.<br /> *The character Mom has been renamed to Momon, mirroring ''[[Sauron]]''.<br /> *The [[Argonath]] are one heroic statue and a stack of garden gnomes. A rickety bridge hangs in between them.<br /> * A walking tree, named Treedledum, appears. He ends up as firewood.<br /> * Moria is portrayed as "the Cave of Hopelessness". The gang is attacked by [[wikipedia:Mork & Mindy|Morks]] there.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Heartbreak Kid (2007 film)|The Heartbreak Kid]]===<br /> * Eddie refers to a couple of kids as "homophobic hobbits".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The House That Dripped Blood|The House That Dripped Blood]]===<br /> * During the thunder storm, John Reid ([[Christopher Lee]]) reads the [http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/dmiller/000467.htm 1968 one volume paperback] of ''The Lord of the Rings''. It was purportedly Lee's own copy.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Imaginationland Episode I|Imaginationland: The Movie]]===<br /> * This South Park three part episode turned movie features several homages to ''The Lord of the Rings''.:<br /> * Episode Two, "The Drying Of The Balls", opens with an aerial shot of mountains, followed by the titles in [[Fonts|"Ringbearer" font]], similar to the opening of ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''. The music accompanying the scene is based on the film's soundtrack.<br /> * There's an [[Ent]] among the good characters.<br /> * [[Sauron]] and the [[Balrogs|Balrog]] are one of the evil imaginations. <br /> * One of the orcs resembles those from the [[Rankin/Bass]] productions.<br /> * Castle Sunshine is an exact replica of [[Rivendell]] as featured in the movie trilogy.<br /> * Gandalf is a member of the Council of Nine, along with Jesus, Aslan, Popeye, Wonder Woman, Luke Skywalker, Zeus, Morpheus (from ''The Matrix'') and the Tooth Fairy.<br /> * During the Battle of Castle Sunshine, several visual references are made to [[Peter Jackson]]'s [[Battle of Helm's Deep]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Inkheart (film)|Inkheart]]===<br /> * Elinor Loredan claims she has been to many places. After listing several real cities, she mentions Middle-earth, distant planets and Shangri-la. <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Juno (film)|Juno]]===<br /> * Juno compares Paulie Bleeker's mother to [[Samwise Gamgee]]: "Bleeker's mom was possibly attractive once, but now she looks like a Hobbit. You know, the fat one, that was in '[[wikipedia:The Goonies|The Goonies]]''." The last part is a reference to [[Sean Astin]], who made his big break in the 1985 movie ''The Goonies''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Judge John Deed|Judge John Deed]]===<br /> <br /> * In season 3, espisode 1 (Health Hazard), Judge John Deed (actor [[Martin Shaw]]) asks a child what book he is reading, and the boy respond: "Lord of the Rings" and the Judge said "Really? That is impressive for seven. What book you are?" boy said:"Two Towers" and the Judge "Wow! I was eleven before I read the first book".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Kiss Kiss Bang Bang|Kiss Kiss Bang Bang]]===<br /> * Harry Lockhart, played by Robert Downey Jr., says: "Don't worry, I saw [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|Lord of the Rings]]. I'm not going to end this 17 times." This is a reference to the many plot points that were tied up at the end of the third film.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Kronk's New Groove|Kronk's New Groove]]===<br /> * In one scene where Kronk gives a naked Rudy one of Yzma's Scam Youth Potions, he imitates the posture of [[Gollum]], even saying "[[Precious|My Precious!]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Lizzie McGuire Movie|The Lizzie McGuire Movie]]===<br /> * During the trip to Rome, Ms. Ungermeyer refers to her students as Halflings.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Lovely Bones (film)|The Lovely Bones]]===<br /> * When Susie is looking at Ray Singh from the bookstore, a poster for the 1973 [[Ballantine Books|Ballantine]] edition (with [[Peter S. Beagle]]'s introduction) is featured predominantly in the store's display. ''The Lovely Bones'' was directed by [[Peter Jackson]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Miss Cast Away and the Island Girls|Miss Cast Away and the Island Girls]]===<br /> * At the end of the film, Mike asks Julie to marry him. The moment she puts on the ring, she is transported into [[Wraith-world|another world]], where a voice commands her to "remove the Ring, [[precious]]". <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Mosaic (film)|Mosaic]]===<br /> * Maggie dislikes the stereotype that all drama club geeks have "all 10 hours of Lord of the Rings on DVD".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Net (1995 film)|The Net]]===<br /> *One of the IRC participants Angela chats with, has the nickname ''[[Gandalf]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Outlander (film)|Outlander]]===<br /> * One character is named "Boromir", unusual for a setting in 10th century Scandinavia.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Rise of the Guardians|Rise of the Guardians]]===<br /> <br /> *[[Tolkien fandom|Tolkien fans]] have suggested that the portrayal of the headquarters of Santa Claus in the film is reminiscent of Tolkien's illustration of the same in ''[[Letters from Father Christmas]]'', to the point of likely being a direct reference.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?8530-Father-Christmas-Letters-(merged)&p=508364#post508364|articlename=Father Christmas Letters|dated=|website=[http://www.thetolkienforum.com/ TheTolkienForum.com]|accessed=31 March 2013}}</ref><br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Run Ronnie Run|Run Ronnie Run]]===<br /> * Jeff Goldblum mentions hobbits in passing.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Sandlot 2|The Sandlot 2]]===<br /> * The movie starts with an opening narration modeled after [[Galadriel]]'s opening monologue in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Shadowlands (film)|Shadowlands]]===<br /> * Though Tolkien himself is absent from this movie about [[C.S. Lewis]], [[wikipedia:Douglas Gresham|Douglas Gresham]] can be seen reading a copy of ''[[The Hobbit]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Shrek 2|Shrek 2]]===<br /> * Fiona's wedding ring lands on her finger as it had on Frodo's in the Prancing Pony in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring|The Fellowship of the Ring]]''. In fiery red letters, "I love you" then appears on it.<br /> * In the DVD menu, one of the subtitles for the movie, as suggested by Donkey, is "Shrek 2: The Fellowship of the Donkeys".<br /> * In the scene right after Fiona drinks the tea her father gives her, you see the camera pan over a torture chamber where Shrek, Donkey, and Puss are being held captive. The outside of this fortress looks like Barad-dur, the chamber where Gollum was tortured in the first movie of LOTR.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Six Degrees of Separation (film)|Six Degrees of Separation]]===<br /> * As part of his con that he is a literature student, Paul mentions a dislike for ''The Lord of the Rings'' and other fantasy. Ironically, one of the wealthy and conned people is played by [[Ian McKellen]].<br /> <br /> ===[[Wikipedia:The Smurfs (film)|The Smurfs]]===<br /> *Gargamel is foound a prisoner in a New York prison facility. A [[moth]] flies into his cell and he asks from it to bring a swarm of [[Eagles]], reminiscing [[The Caverns of Isengard (scene)|the scene]] from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'' where [[Gandalf]] is trapped on the summit of [[Orthanc]]. The next day, instead of the Eagles, the moth brings a swarm of flies that carry Gargamel out.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Superhero Movie|Superhero Movie]]===<br /> * One of the social cliques mentioned are the "Frodo's", kids dressed as Hobbits.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Taxi (2004 film)|Taxi (2004)]]===<br /> * Features a Gollum-like "[[Precious|My Precious]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Transamerica|Transamerica]]===<br /> * Kevin mentions erotic themes in the movie trilogy; the phallic nature of [[Barad-dûr]] and the vagina-shaped [[Eye of Sauron]], as well as the perceived homosexuality of Frodo and Sam.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:X-Men Origins: Wolverine|X-Men Origins: Wolverine]]===<br /> * In the rear window of the Hudsons' truck, a sticker reads "[[The Riddle of Strider|Not all those who wander are lost]]".<br /> <br /> ==Television Series==<br /> <br /> <br /> === [[wikipedia:The Amazing World of Gumball|The Amazing World of Gumball]] ===<br /> * The episode "The Helmet", which resolves around a hat with magical abilities, takes several cues from Peter Jackson's movies. Gumball's obsessive behaviour mirrors Gollum's, and Darwin and Anais destruction of the hat by throwing it in a garbage compactor is based on Sam and Frodo's scene at the [[Cracks of Doom|Sammath Naur]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:American Dad!|American Dad!]]===<br /> * "Dungeons and Wagons" features a ''World of Warcraft''-like game. The "heroes" fight a troll in a cave, which turns to stone after being exposed to sunlight. One of the characters is a wizard named Flandag - Gandalf backwards. Hayley appears as a character called "[[Morwen (disambiguation)|Morwen]] Nerdbane".<br /> * In "All About Steve", an obsessed terrorist dresses as Frodo.<br /> * In the episode "Escape from Pearl Bailey", as the four nerds struggle to escape from the jocks and cheerleaders, Debbie yells "You shall not pass", before blocking the road of the jocks with a goth dance.<br /> * "Black Mystery Month", a ''Da Vinci Code''-homage, ends with president Jimmy Carter falling in lava, and a backback with evidence with him. He grasps for it much how Gollum grasped for it in the film.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Angel (TV series)|Angel]]===<br /> * In "The Magic Bullet", Jasmine considers herself verbose, and then compares it to the prologue of ''The Fellowship of the Ring''.<br /> * In "Damage", Andrew compares Spike's resurrection and gained strength to Gandalf's transformation into Gandalf the White after the death of [[Durin's Bane|the Balrog]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Archer (TV series)|Archer]]===<br /> * In episode 3, "Deviersity Hire", one of the missions mentioned by the team is "Operation [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]]". It turned out to be just blowing up a weapons truck; reviewing footage, one technician remarks the bad guys should have been wearing "Bilbo's coat of Dwarven mithril". The technician wants to go on to explain his pun, but is cut short.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes|Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes]]===<br /> * In the season two episode "Acts of Vengeance", Thor, Odin and Heimdall investigate the Dwarf realm Nidavellir after Surtur destroyed it. One of the cave's defenses resembles the [[Bridge of Khazad-Dûm]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Babylon 5|Babylon 5]]===<br /> *The first of the First Ones is called [[Irmo|Lorien]].<br /> * The God of the Underworld is called [[Morgoth]].<br /> * In the episode "The Geometry of Shadows", Elric says "There is an old saying: "Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger", [[Gildor Inglorion]]'s warning to [[Frodo Baggins]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Being Erica|Being Erica]]===<br /> * The premise of "Being Erica" is as follows: Erica gets "sent back" by her therapist to relive all awful moments of her past and set them straight. Episode 2.06, "Shhh...Don't Tell" features Fiona, an old classmate of Erica. She is sitting in the school hallway reading the black cover paperback edition of ''[[The Two Towers]]''. Erica tries to open up a conversation about the book and "the movies" - but because the flashback is set before the movies, Fiona asks her if she means the [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|Bakshi version]] instead. The flashback is set in Erica's final year in high school, in the 1980's; about 2 decades before the black cover paperbacks were published.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Big Bang Theory|The Big Bang Theory]]===<br /> * Leonard dresses as Frodo in "The Middle Earth Paradigm".<br /> * In "The Financial Permeability", Leonard tries to tag along. As a (bad) argument, he says that Frodo only succeded because Sam, Pippin and Merry went with him.<br /> * Sheldon has a [[Sideshow Collectibles|Sideshow]] ''Gollum'' statue on his desk in episode 3.11, "The Maternal Congruence".<br /> * In The "Precious Fragmentation", the gang finds the ring and have a contest as to who gets to keep the One Ring. Leonard even utters "My Precious" [Gollum style]<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Black Books|Black Books]]===<br /> * Bernard frequently refers to bumbling assistant Manny Bianco was "Lord of the Rings", "Gandalf" and several other bearded characters, in reference to Manny's unkempt appearance.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Bones (TV series)|Bones]]===<br /> * In "The Man in the Morgue", Seeley Booth dismisses voodoo as "and then we just toss the ring into the molten river, and blah blah blah"; a reference to the end of [[the One Ring]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Breaking Bad|Breaking Bad]]===<br /> * In the episode "Phoenix", Jesse and Jane are contemplating the need to leave the United States after a drug deal gone bad. Jesse, who is high at the time, suggests New Zealand, because that's where they made ''[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|Lord of the Rings]]''. He then totally loses it by suggesting Jane can paint the local castles and he can become a bush pilot.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Buffy the Vampire Slayer|Buffy the Vampire Slayer]]===<br /> * In "Gone", Warren creates an invisibility ray. He nearly zaps Jonathan with it, who gets angry. Warren tells him off with "cheer up, Frodo."<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Chowder (TV series)|Chowder]]===<br /> * In the episode "Burple Nurples", Chowder makes treats to vile that the only place where Mung Daal can destroy them is "Mount Fondoom", a giant fondue pan-shaped volcano.<br /> * In the episode "The Sleep Eater", Schnitzel and Mung Daal guard a fridge from a [[wikipedia:Night eating syndrome|sleep eating]] Chowder. When confronted by a giant hairy version of Chowder, Mung Daal yells "You Shall Not Pass!", and causes the ground to shudder with a giant fork. Chowder simply bends the fork and eats Mung Daal and Schnitzel.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Colbert Report|The Colbert Report]]===<br /> * During the week [[3 December|3]]-[[6 December]], ''The Colbert Report'' hosted "Hobbit Week". There were many [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] references, and interviews with [[Ian McKellen]], [[Martin Freeman]], [[Andy Serkis]], and [[Peter Jackson]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Danny Phantom|Danny Phantom]]===<br /> * In the season finale/TV film "Reality Trip", a fan at a convention yells "You shall not pass".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Dead Ringers (comedy)|Dead Ringers]]===<br /> {{main|Dead Ringers}}<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Dexter's Laboratory|Dexter's Laboratory]]===<br /> * In the episode "D&DD" (a "[[Dungeons and Dragons]]"-themed episode), Dexter is forced to play "Hodo, the Furry-footed Burrower", a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] parody.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Doctor Who|Doctor Who]]===<br /> * In "Last of the Time Lords", The Master refers to a speedily aged Tenth Doctor as "[[Gandalf]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Dollhouse (TV series)|Dollhouse]]===<br /> * Echo failed a test on medieval literature because she didn't know what "Mid-Evil" was - she mistakes Middle-english with Middle-earth by saying "like Hobbits?".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Drawn Together|Drawn Together]]===<br /> * In the episode "The One Wherein There Is A Big Twist", Clara puts on [[The One Ring|an invisibility ring]].<br /> * The ring returns in "The Other Cousin", where Foxxy hangs over the edge of a cliff, much like [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'', and asks Clara to give her her hand. Clara refuses, and takes the ring instead. Though the visual reference is to ''The Lord of the Rings'', the lines are taken from ''Aladdin''.<br /> * In "A Very Special Drawn Together Afterschool Special", it is revealed that the parents of Xandir live in a [[Bag End]]-like house.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Duck Dodgers (TV series)|Duck Dodgers]]===<br /> * The fantasy-episode "M.M.O.R.P.D." features, among other fantasy characters, "Scamwise of the Wee People" (voiced by [[S. Scott Bullock]]). Duck Dodgers refers to all the Cadet's friends as "Fellowship of the Dinks", and on their way to fulfil their quest, they encounter a [[Ents|walking talking tree]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:DuckTales (2017 TV series)|DuckTales]]===<br /> * In "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest", Louie calls the eponymous mountain "Mount Certain Doom".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Evil Con Carne|Evil Con Carne]]===<br /> * In "No No Nanook", Hector Con Carne and his gang (on a dog sled) try to escape the Mounted Police by going through an ice cave. There, Gollum leads Frodo down the path, refering to him as "[[precious]]" and "master" before attacking him to get the Ring. At that point, Con Carne's sled runs them over and flattens them. They get up, and in bandages, continue their way. Only now, they are run over by the mounties. Gollum uses "Schlemiegel" and "Halfling" rather than "Smeagol" and "Hobbit". Billy West provided his voice; Frodo does not have any lines.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Extras|Extras]]===<br /> * In [[Orlando Bloom]]'s episode, he mentions his rise in popularity that came with his part as Legolas, though most of the rest of the episode deals with ''Pirates of the Caribbean'' and a supposed dislike of Johnny Depp.<br /> * In [[Ian McKellen]]'s episode, Andy is cast in a play opposite McKellen. His role as Gandalf is mentioned several times, as well as New Zealand and Peter Jackson. <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Fairly OddParents|Fairly OddParents]]===<br /> * In "Wishology", Timmy's second wish "trilogy wish" is ''The Lord of the Rings''. Timmy and Wanda become Frodo and Sam, [[Daran Norris|Cosmo]] becomes Gollum, and Poof an Elf. The One Ring says "Made in [[New Zealand]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Family Guy|Family Guy]]===<br /> * In the episode "Sibling Rivalry", Stewie pushes the kid on the ground and says "Cry, cry like Sauron when he lost his contacts." The scene then shifts to a cutaway showing the Eye of Sauron frantically searching for his lost contact.<br /> * In the episode "I Take Thee Quagmire", Quagmire falls in love with Joan, the maid. It his first idea of how love could be, they hold hands as [[Aragorn]] and [[Arwen]] did in the first film. Joan then speaks faux-Elvish (untanslatable: "''Day univen hablendeth hal univen led hansed de-un, Quagmandir''"), translated in the subtitles as a paraphrase of Arwen's words in that scene. Quagmire then answers "''Denedain raydun habbledeth [[Gandalf|Mithrandir]] veon hellmisano''", translated as his trademark phrase "Giggity". See on [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku6QAYb6YAg YouTube]. <br /> * In "Petergeist", Chris is thrown from his bedroom window into the clutches of a living tree. The scene eventually parodies the epic confrontation between [[Gandalf]] and [[Durin's Bane]] when Herbert the Creepy Old Pedophile shows up to save Chris. After uttering the line "You shall not pass!", he brakes open the ground with his walker and fights off the tree, until they fall in a pond.<br /> * In "Baby Not on Board", Chris and his boss discuss the movies. Among the things mentioned is the age-old "Why didn't the Eagles fly the Ring to Mount Doom?".<br /> * In the opening sequence of "Road to the Multiverse", Brian is dressed as Frodo, and Stewie as Gollum.<br /> * In "Tiegs for Two", the lighting of the [[Beacons]]-scene is recreated, with very similar music.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Father of the Pride|Father of the Pride]]===<br /> * Hunter is a fan of ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Flash (2014 TV series)|The Flash]]===<br /> * In the episode "Welcome to Earth-2", Cisco wears a Mordor t-shirt.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends|Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends]]===<br /> * The episode "[[Duchess of Wails]]" features a version of the [[Battle of the Hornburg|Battle of Helm's Deep]], in which the main characters Mac and [[Keith Ferguson|Bloo]] attempt to storm [[Grey DeLisle|Duchess]] back into Foster's Home. However, those inside refuse to take the obnoxious Duchess back, and fight out a battle. Several elements from [[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|adaptation]] are covered, including ladders, battering rams, quotes, and even a character sliding down a wall on a shield.<br /> * In the episode "Partying is Such Sweet Soiree", a sugar-rushed Mac calls an item of sugar "[[Precious|My Precious]]", and hisses at sugar free gum.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Friends|Friends]]===<br /> *In the season 4 episode "The One Where They're Going to Party!", Ross and Chandler speak about a university friend, called Paul "Gandalf" Ganderson, the Party Wizard. When Joey asks why they call him Gandalf they reply "Didn't you read ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' in high-school?" to which they get "No, I had sex in high-school".<br /> * In episode 2.19, "The One Where Eddie Won't Go", Monica gets annoyed when Rachel calls her new favourite book, "Be Your Own Wind Keeper", "a little like ''The Hobbit.''"<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Gilmore Girls|Gilmore Girls]]===<br /> * ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' is referenced in the episodes "Keg! Max!", "Scene in a Mall", "Swan Song" and "So... Let's Talk", among others.<br /> * There is a [[Middle-earth]]-themed party in "The Hobbit, the Sofa, and Digger Stiles". At the party, a distressed girl (dressed as a Hobbit), asks why only boy hobbits went on the quest to [[Mount Doom]]. Lorelai then calms the girl by saying the girl hobbits did an even more dangerous thing - [[wikipedia:Bikini waxing|a Brazilian bikini wax]].<br /> * In the episode "Here Comes the Son", two of Sasha's dogs are called Frodo and Legolas.<br /> * In "Raincoats and Recipes", Lorelai thinks Aragorn would make a good husband.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Green Lantern: The Animated Series|Green Lantern: The Animated Series]]===<br /> * In "Love is a Battlefield", after being told by a Manhunter that "no man escapes the Manhunters", Queen Aga'po replies with "I am no man" before taking the Manhunter down.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Grey's Anatomy|Grey's Anatomy]]===<br /> * In "What Is It About Men", one of the guests at a comic convention is dressed as a hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy|The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy]]===<br /> * The episode "Beasts and Barbarians", an overall homage ot ''[[Dungeons and Dragons]]'', has a Gollum-like creature that riddles with [[Grey DeLisle|Mandy]]: "What's black and blue and red all over?", so which Mandy answers "You if you don't give me that Ring, pronto!". The Ring can be used to rule an evil army.<br /> * The episode "[[Here Thar Be Dwarves]]" spoofs the [[Council of Elrond]], and the Elf headquarters is basically [[Isengard]] with a large tree rather than [[Orthanc|a tower]].<br /> * "Complete and Udder Chaos" features several references to the films.<br /> * In "The Secret Decoder Ring", Billy thinks he is invisible after putting on a decoder ring.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:House (TV series)|House]]===<br /> * The episode 6.17, "Knight Fall", plays partly at a renaissance fair. House sarcasically refers to it as "Middle-earth" (despite it being a normal fair, not a fantasy one). He refers to Remy Hadley as "Frodo" (who then wonders whether she has short legs or hairy feet) and Chris Taub as "Gollum". Robert Chase has no clue who Frodo is.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Instant Star|Instant Star]]===<br /> * In "Oh Well, Whatever, Nevermind", Tommy calls Jamie [[Gollum]]; Jamie corrects him that his actual nickname is [[Gandalf]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:iZombie (TV Series)|iZombie]]===<br /> * In "Heaven Just Got a Little Bit Smoother", Ravi calls his unrequited crush Peyton "my precious", after which Liv expresses the hope he will not throw her in Mount Doom.<br /> * In "Wag the Tongue Slowly", Ravi plays ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]''.<br /> * "Twenty-Sided, Die" is a ''Dungeons & Dragons''-themed episode, with some references to ''The Lord of the Rings''. Second breakfast is mentioned in sexual foreplay, and Liv refers to her group of friends as "Fellowship of the Dorks".<br /> * In "My Really Fair Lady", Liv, played by New Zealand actress Rose McIver, pretends to be a New Zealand actress to distract a security guard. She claims she was an Elf extra in the movies.<br /> * In "Thug Death", Liv describes Ravi's legbreaker-brain inspired personality swings as "the Gollum/Sméagol scene in Two Towers".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The IT Crowd|The IT Crowd]]===<br /> * In "The Speech", Douglas calls himself the boss, "Head Honcho. El Numero Uno. Mr. Big. The Godfather. Lord of the Rings. The Bourne... Identity. Er... Taxi Driver. Jaws."<br /> * In "Jen The Fredo", Moss mishears Roy saying 'Fredo' and instead hears 'Frodo'. His response: "He took the ring to Mordor!"<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Just Shoot Me!|Just Shoot Me!]]===<br /> * In "The Last Temptation of Elliot", Dennis makes fun of Elliot's newfound religion. He claims he loves the Lord - he loves all the Lords: [[The Lord of the Rings|The one of the Rings]], [[wikipedia:Lord of the Dance|the one of the Dance]], [[wikipedia:Twelve Days of Christmas|the ten that are always a-leapin'...]]<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The King of Queens|The King of Queens]]===<br /> * In "Shear Torture", Spence (Patton Oswalt) wants to visit Fantasy Fest '05, his friends ridicule him for it. In response, he calls his three pudgy, middle-eaged friends "Hobbits".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Legends of Tomorrow|Legends of Tomorrow]]===<br /> * A fictionalized version of Tolkien appears in "Fellowship of the Spear", where he is played by [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4791710/ Jack Turner]. He is a second lieutenant at the [[Battle of the Somme]]. The team of main characters seeks him out because he wrote a treatise called ''The Burden of the Purest Heart'' and they think he can help them destroy the Spear of Destiny. They locate the grave of Gawain and the blood of Christ, but are forced to flee. Tolkien remains behind.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Lewis (TV series)|Lewis]]===<br /> * "Allegory of Love" deals with a fantasy author on the [[University of Oxford|Oxford]] campus. Tolkien's work (along with [[Charles Williams|Williams']] and [[C.S. Lewis|Lewis']]) is mentioned several times by Professor Deering (played by James Fox), though he incorrectly pronounces the /ie/ in "Tolkien" as two individual letters. Several other fantasy sites of Oxford are also featured: [[Addison Walk]], [[Basil Blackwell|Blackwell]]'s book store, and ''[[The Eagle and Child]]''. The fantasy author, Dorian Chase, is part of a group of writers dubbed "[[Inklings|The New Inklings]]". Hathaway concludes the episode with [[Hugo Dyson]]'s remark "No more Elves!", paraphrased as "Not more flipping Elves - though he didn't say flipping".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Lizzie McGuire|Lizzie McGuire]]===<br /> * In "Clue-Less", socially awkward Larry Tudgeman tells Veruca he believes he's born in the wrong time period - he would be better at home in the [[Third Age]] of Middle-earth.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Lost (TV series)|Lost]]===<br /> * In "Further Instructions", Charlie ([[Dominic Monaghan]]) remarks that he heard trees are great conversationalists; this was a deliberate reference to Monaghan's role as Merry opposite [[Treebeard]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Magnum P.I.|Magnum P.I.]]===<br /> * In a flashback to the Vietnam war in the episode "Two Birds of a Feather", a signals officer uses the callsigns "Frodo" and "Gandalf".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Married with Children|Married with Children]]===<br /> * In "God Help Ye Merry Bundymen", Al and Griff are fired on Christmas day. Al then becomes an "Elfineer" - the driver of a toy train for children. Upon seeing him in the ridiculous outfit, Griff remarks that he's one ugly Hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Midsomer Murders|Midsomer Murders]]===<br /> * In "Judgement Day" (co-starring a pre-trilogy [[Orlando Bloom]]) Barnaby and Troy visit a house called "[[Lothlórien|Lothlorian]]" ''(sic)''. DCI Barnaby mentions that it's from ''The Lord of the Rings'' by "J.R." Tolkien. DS Troy admits to not reading it, and never finishing ''The Hobbit'' because he doesn't like Dwarves and "Fairies".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir|Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir]]===<br /> * In "Gorizilla", loyal fan Wayhem tries to keep the titular monster away from Adrien Agreste by shouting "You shall not pass!", to no avail.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:My Hero (TV series)|My Hero]]===<br /> * Crazy neighbor Tyler often claims he has fantasy characters, like Gandalf and Frodo, in his apartment.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:My Name Is Earl|My Name Is Earl]]===<br /> * In "Something to Live For", Earl compares a girl to an [[uruk-hai|Uruk]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:My Parents Are Aliens|My Parents Are Aliens]]===<br /> * In the episode "The Wedding", Josh refer to a wedding ring as "My precious".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:NewsRadio|NewsRadio]]===<br /> * In episode 4.14, "Security Door", Matthew Brock sings of "Frodo, the paranoid gnome".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The O.C.|The O.C.]]===<br /> * In "The Day After Tomorrow", Marissa and Summer compare Seth's behavior to Gollum's. They didn't read the books, but were somewhat forced to watch the movie. They only remembered it as "[[wikipedia:Brokeback Mountain|gay guys on the mountain]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Office (U.S. TV series)|The Office (US series)]]===<br /> * In "The Alliance", it is revealed that Dwight Schrute's passwords are "[[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]]" and "[[Gollum]]".<br /> * In "Business Ethics", Jim has a bet with Dwight, in which Dwight can't take personal breaks or have conversations about anything other than works. To taunt him, Jim and Andy start "discussing" ''[[wikipedia:Battlestar Galactica|Battlestar Galactica]]'', saying everything wrong on purpose. Summarizing the plot, Jim says: "It's about this guy, [[wikipedia:Albus Dumbledore|Dumbledore]] [[wikipedia:Lando Calrissian|Calrissian]], who's got to take [[The One Ring|The Ring]] back to [[Mordor]]." <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:One Tree Hill|One Tree Hill]]===<br /> * In "Pictures of You", Lucas does a Gollum impression.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Operation: Kids Next Door|Operation: Kids Next Door]]===<br /> * The episode "Operation K.N.O.T." features "Froggy McDougal", a [[Gollum]]-lookalike. Froggy is voiced by [[Dave Wittenberg]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Portal (TV Series)|Portal]]===<br /> * Shorty the Dwarf frequently yells "You have my axe!".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Powerless (TV Series)|Powerless]]===<br /> * In "Cold Season", Emily puts down Teddy by saying she built him up too much in his head - like she did with ''The Hobbit''. Teddy strives not to be a disappointment by saying "I am not the Hobbit movies".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Red vs. Blue|Red vs. Blue]] ===<br /> * In the season 13 finale, "The End", Doc/O'Malley says "Fly, you fools!" while holding off enemy troops.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Robot Chicken|Robot Chicken]]===<br /> * The cast of Surreal Life become the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] in "A Piece of the Action".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Sarah Silverman Program|The Sarah Silverman Program]]===<br /> * The first episode of the second season, "[[Bored of the Rings (book)|Bored of the Rings]]", takes the often used spoof name, but does not contain any references to ''The Lord of the Rings''; instead, the subplot is about ''[[Dungeons and Dragons]]'' and the complete lack of reality of its players. <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated|Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated]]===<br /> * In "Wrath of the Krampus", Sheriff Stone compares himself with a "smelly wizard from Center Earth" after he is mystically made older by the episode's villain.<br /> * In "Aliens Among Us", the flashback shows the Irish thief O'Flaherty breaking into a hobbit hole.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Scrubs (TV series)|Scrubs]]===<br /> * In the episode "My Old Man", Elliott does a [[Gollum]]-impression.<br /> * In "Our Meeting with J.D.", J.D. gives Howie the nickname "Gollum".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Sex and the City|Sex and the City]]===<br /> * In "Splat!", food critic Martin Grable is pejoratively referred to as a Hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Simpsons|The Simpsons]]===<br /> * In the episode "Dude, Where's My Ranch", a Gollum-parody called "Cleanie" appears. He is voiced by [[Andy Serkis]].<br /> * The episode "[[Rome-Oh and Julie-Eh]]" spoofs the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields|Battle of Pelennor Fields]], the [[Battle of the Hornburg]] and also contains dialogue from [[Dáin Ironfoot]]'s encounted with the messenger of [[Sauron]].<br /> * The Comic Book Guy's comic store has competition from stores called ''Mylar Baggins'' in North Haverbrook and ''Frodo's'' in Shelbyville.<br /> * In ''The Simpsons Game'' (a video game spin-off of the series), Homer exclaims "[[Precious|My precious!]]" upon receiving a much desired keycard. The game also features ''Mobbits'', Hobbit parodies.<br /> * In the episode "That '90s Show", Comic Book Guy tells people ''The Lord of the Rings'' can not be made into film. The episode is set in the nineties, but created in 2008.<br /> * In episode 3 of season 20, "Double, Double, Boy in Trouble", Simon Woosterfield's horse is called [[Shadowfax]].<br /> * In the episode "Moms I'd Like to Forget", the comic book guy begins his tale with the starting lines of the Silmarllion, quoting the names of Arda and Morgoth.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Sopranos|The Sopranos]]===<br /> * In the episode "Whoever Did This?", Justin Cifaretto is badly injured during a bow and arrow game with a friend, who were reportedly reenacting scenes from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''. Justin's hospitalization leads to a fight between Justin's father, capo Ralph Cifaretto, and don Tony Soprano, which the former does not survive.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:South Park|South Park]]===<br /> * "Nurse Gollum" is a nurse with a conjoined twin fetus on her head.<br /> * The episode ''[[The Return of the Fellowship of the Ring to the Two Towers]]'' is a completely Tolkien-themed episode.<br /> * In the episode "Go God Go", the otters prepare for war in a similar fashion as the Rohirrim in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''.<br /> * In "Make Love, Not Warcraft", a statuette of [[Durin's Bane]] can be seen.<br /> * The episode 6.14, "The Death Camp of Tolerance" features several references, both to Peter Jackson's films as to [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]].<br /> :::In order to get fired for being gay (and sue the school for millions), Mr. Garrisson stuffs Lemmiwinks the gerbil up his assistants ass. The gerbil's voyage inside the assistant is accompanied by a variation of "[[The Greatest Adventure]]":<br /> <br /> <poem style="font-style:italic; margin-left:50px;"><br /> A great adventure<br /> Is waiting for you ahead<br /> Hurry onward Lemmiwinks<br /> Or you will soon be dead<br /> The journey before you <br /> May be long and filled with woe<br /> But you must escape the gay man's ass<br /> So your tale can be told.<br /> </poem><br /> :::The song goes on any time Lemmiwinks journey is told. When the assistant takes a pepto pill, it falls down his throat and plunges into the stomach like [[Gandalf]] and [[Durin's Bane|the Balrog]] did in ''The Two Towers''. In the stomach, Lemmiwinks meets the katatafish, who will only let him pass the esophagus if he solves a riddle. What the riddle is is never shown.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Spaceballs: The Animated Series|Spaceballs: The Animated Series]]===<br /> * The episode "Lord of the Onion Rings" spoofs ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> :* The titular onion ring was baked in a giant deep fryer, modeled after [[Barad-dûr]]. It's in a land called Lardor.<br /> :* Barf (dressed as a hobbit) waits nearby, resting against a tree with a strain of grass in his mouth. When hero Lone Starr arrives, he welcomes him with "You're late".<br /> :* In order to sniff out the Onion Ring (its special power is that its scent can knock out armies), villains President Skroob and [[Dee Bradley Baker|Dark Helmet]] use a replica of Barad-Dûr that has a pink nose rather than a [[Eye of Sauron|red eye]].<br /> :* After putting the Ring in the microwave, Lone Starr tells Barf to touch it - but it's still hot.<br /> :* Though set inside rather than in a patio, the "Council of Yogurt" is clearly modeled after the [[Council of Elrond]]. Barf, the "hobbit", volunteers, but only because the rest chickens out. The rest decide to tag along, and Yogurt calls them "The Fellowship of the Onion Ring".<br /> :* Yogurt, a Yoda parody, gives everone "indecipherable code names". Barf becomes "Barf [[Baggins Family|Baggins]]". Lone Starr becomes "Lone Starragorn", and princess Vespa "Vesperwen". Yogurt does not give himself a name, but puts on a pointy hat anyway.<br /> :* Skroob then refers to Lone Starragorn as "Lone [[Arathorn II|Starrathorn]]'s heir"<br /> :* Yogurt and "Dark [[Saruman|Heluman]]" discuss the latter's fall from grace.<br /> :* Dot Matrix, a robot, serves as "[[Galadriel|Galadriot Matrix]]". Her [[Mirror of Galadriel|mirror]] is filled with oil.<br /> :* On a moonlit hill, Starr speaks to Vespa in an unintelligible gibberish, similar to Elvish. Only it wasn't another language, he was speaking with his mouth full.<br /> :* The team has to cross the treacherous Hot Lard Swamps.<br /> :* Dark Helmet mixes up the terms "Dark Army" and "Orc Army", and created a Dork Army. They birth like the [[Uruk-Hai]] in ''The Fellowship of the Ring''.<br /> :* Upon splitting up, Yogurt yells at Barf to keep the Onion ring secret and safe.<br /> :* Barf doubles as [[Gollum]], coveting his [[Precious|"delicious"]]. In the end, he bites off his own finger.<br /> :* Yogurt flies into Lardor on a newly introduced bird to pick up Barf.<br /> :* The [[The Fellowship Reunited|bed scene]] is featured.<br /> :* Lone Starragorn is crowned with a replica of the Crown of Gondor.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:SpongeBob SquarePants|SpongeBob SquarePants]]===<br /> * In the episode "Banned in Bikini Bottom", a banner reads "Keep it Secret, Keep it Safe".<br /> * "Dunces and Dragons" features references to many fantasy series. The domain of the evil Plankton resembles [[Mordor]], and his fortress [[Barad-dûr]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Stargate Atlantis|Stargate Atlantis]]===<br /> * Dr. Bill Lee is a [[Tolkien fandom|Tolkien fan]], and in the episode "Critical Mass", he uses the concept of the [[warning beacons of Gondor]] to explain how to relay a message to Atlantis.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Star Trek: Deep Space Nine|Star Trek: Deep Space Nine]]===<br /> * In the episode "Family Business", the Ferengi are shown to live in Hobbit-like houses.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Still Standing (TV series)|Still Standing]]===<br /> * In the episode "Still Flunking", Bryan has to climb a wall to pass gym. When he finally tries it, he says "It's Hobbit time", referring to his less-than-athletic body shape.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Stranger Things (TV Series)|Stranger Things]]===<br /> * Will Byers goes missing on a forested street he and his friends call "[[Mirkwood]]". The password to their "secret" cabin is "[[Radagast]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Superman: The Animated Series|Superman: The Animated Series]]===<br /> * In the episode "The Hand of Fate", the wicca character Rainsong is owner of a bookstore called "The Dancing Hobbit".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Supernatural (TV series)|Supernatural]]=== <br /> * In "Hell House", Harry Spangler exclaims "Sweet Lord of the Rings!" as an expression of surprise.<br /> * In the episode "Goodbye Stranger", Dean says to Sam that he may not be able to carry his burden but he can carry him. Sam replies that he just quoted ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> * In the episode "Good God, Y'all!" Dean asks Sam 'pit stop at Mt Doom?' after gaining the horseman War's ring.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012 TV series)|Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles]]===<br /> * In the second season episode "Mazes & Mutants", the Turtles play out a [[Dungeons and Dragons]]-like game. The episode features multiple references to ''The Lord of the Rings'', including "The Fellowship of Turtles", and Michelangelo refers to his special ring as "precious". [[Sean Astin]] stars as Raphael.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Teen Titans Go! (TV series)|Teen Titans Go!]]===<br /> * In "Cool School", Ravager mockingly calls sorceress Raven Gandalf.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Ugly Betty|Ugly Betty]]===<br /> * In "Filing for the Enemy", Wilhelmina calls Betty "the One". Betty responds with: "What, like ''The Lord of the Rings''?", referring to [[the One Ring]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:VeggieTales|VeggieTales]]===<br /> * The 27th episode, "[[Lord of the Beans]]", is a pretty overt parody. The series was created to teach Christian lessons to children; this episode is (quite fitting) about unselfishness.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Voltron: Legendary Defender|Voltron: Legendary Defender]]===<br /> * In the season 6 episode "Monsters & Mana", the Paladins play a [[Dungeons and Dragons]]-style game. Shiro's character is introduced in a a shady alcove in an inn, much like [[Aragorn]] was in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Viva_La_Bam|Viva La Bam]]===<br /> * In "Community Disservice", Phil says that he had to park by the [[smial|Hobbit Hole]]. In the next scene there is a picture of a shed named Hobbit Hole.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Venture Bros.|The Venture Bros.]]===<br /> * In "Self Medication", Hank, Dean and Sergeant Hatred go to a fantasy movie "Rings of the Realm".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Visionaries:_Knights_of_the_Magical_Light|Visionaries: Knights of the Magical Light]]===<br /> * This series, which has been set in a fantasy world, features several characters named after Arthurian legend - Mortdredd, Merklynn, Ectar - and also one distinctively similar to one from [[Arda]]: the main female protagonist, "Galadria", who has the power to heal.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Walking Dead|The Walking Dead]]===<br /> * In the episode "Cherokee Rose", Rick comments that his cousin had to wait in a car for 24 hours and spent the time listening to an [[audiobook]] of ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Will & Grace|Will & Grace]]===<br /> * In "Ice Cream Balls", one of Will's clients is a big ''The Lord of the Rings'' fan. Will responds with that he likes any movie in which "two boys named Merry and Pippin risk their lives for a good piece of jewelry". The client makes verious other references to the films - he want to retire and count his [[precious]] money and he wants Jack to be "the Lord of his Ring".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:W.I.T.C.H. (TV series)|W.I.T.C.H.]]===<br /> * In "G is for Garbage", the character [[Steven Jay Blum|Blunk]] does a Gollum-like "[[precious]]" when someone tries to steal a prized piece of garbage from him. <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Wonderfalls|Wonderfalls]]===<br /> * Because Jaye lacks hometown pride, Mahandra calls her "a Hobbit that hates the Shire" in episode 6, "Barrel Bear".<br /> [[Category:Parodies]]<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The World's Greatest Super Friends|The World's Greatest Super Friends]]===<br /> * The episode "[http://superfriends.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lord_of_Middle_Earth The Lord of Middle Earth]" (1979) uses the name "[[Middle-earth]]", as well as a fantasy setting, but is not directly inspired by Tolkien's works. [[Casey Kasem]] had a supporting role as Robin; [[Bonnie Callahan|Bonnie GoodKnight]] is credited as a background artist.<br /> <br /> ==Video games==<br /> ===[[wikipedia:DC Universe Online|DC Universe Online]]===<br /> * One of challenge boss Tiger Eye's lines is "Meat is back on the menu", taken from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Longest Journey|The Longest Journey]]===<br /> *In the world of Arcadia, the lair of the Gribbler creature is described as "a cozy [[smial|hobbit hole]]".<br /> *Still in Arcadia, April can find ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' among the books of Abnaxus' library. She will comment that the classics are common in both worlds.<br /> *The fifth chapter of the game is titled ''[[There and Back Again]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Pandora Directive|The Pandora Directive]]===<br /> *When Archie Elis asks Tex Murphy his identity, the player can select among three responses, one being described "Hobbit Humor". Selecting it, Tex says "I am [[Gandalf]], Wielder of the [[Glamdring]] and Slayer of the [[Durin's Bane|Balrog]]."<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:School Days (visual_novel)|School Days]]===<br /> *[[Silmaril]] is one of the movies Makoto can choose to have he and Kotonoha go to on their date, which, if chosen, strengthens Makoto's relationship with her. During the movie Kotonoha tells Makoto that it is based off a book written by a 19th century professor.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Simon the Sorerer|Simon the Sorerer]]===<br /> *A creature called [[Gollum]] can be found fishing. He will help the player get a [[One Ring|ring of invisibility]].<br /> *Talking with Gollum, will also refer to stories such as "''[[The Hobbit|The Short Creature with Furry Feet]]''" and "''[[The Lord of the Rings|The Master of the Finger Ornaments]]''".<br /> <br /> ===[[Wikipedia:Under a Killing Moon|Under a Killing Moon]] (novelization)===<br /> *When Tex Murphy tastes a cigarette he doesn't like, he describes it as "The kind of creation [[Sauron]] and his minions worked through the night creating in the foul-stench bowels of [[Barad-dûr|Barad-Dur]]".<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> *[[Locations named after Tolkien's works]]<br /> *[[Species named after Tolkien's works]]<br /> {{references}}<br /> [[Category:Lists]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Tolkien%27s_works_in_popular_media&diff=307240 Tolkien's works in popular media 2019-09-10T13:34:09Z

<p>Ederchil: /* iZombie */</p> <hr /> <div>Over the years, many visual and verbal '''references''' have been made to the works of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]. While some of them predated [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|Peter Jackson's film trilogy]], most of them are references to the movie (or the movie's portrayal of [[Gollum]]).<br /> {| align="right"<br /> | __TOC__<br /> |}<br /> ==Comics==<br /> * See '''[[Tolkien's works in popular media/Comics]]'''<br /> ==Movies==<br /> ===[[wikipedia:17 Again|17 Again]]===<br /> * Ned Gold (Thomas Lennon), best friend of the protagonist 17 year-old Mike O'Donnell (Zac Efron), courts Jane Masterson (Melora Hardin), the high school principal who shares a mutual interest in The Lord of the Rings. They even discuss about the return of Gandalf the Grey as Gandalf the White in The Two Towers and converse in elvish.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:American Wedding|American Wedding]]===<br /> * Cadence, the sister of the bride, asks best man Stifler to see the wedding ring. When he refuses, she calls him "Frodo".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Avengers (2012 film)|The Avengers]]===<br /> * [[wikipedia:Iron Man|Iron Man]] at one point refers to archer [[wikipedia:Hawkeye (comics)|Hawkeye]] as "Legolas".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Brick (movie)|Brick]]===<br /> * The Pin and Brendan briefly discuss Tolkien's writing style.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Bring It on Again|Bring It on Again]]===<br /> * Tina calls Whittier a Hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Cellular (movie)|Cellular]]===<br /> *Jessica's son bears a school bag with the [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''Lord of the Rings'' film trilogy]] logo. ''Cellular'' was produced by [[New Line Cinema]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Clerks II|Clerks II]]===<br /> * Randal dislikes ''The Lord of the Rings'' - stating there is only one trilogy, and one Return - ''Star Wars'' and ''The Return of the Jedi'', respectively. He summarizes the movies as three movies of only walking, and mentions the many endings of ''The Return of the King''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Date Movie|Date Movie]]===<br /> * [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]], [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]], and [[Gandalf]] try to pawn off the One Ring, with Gandalf pleading that the Ring could "destroy all evil". Ignoring him, Frodo accepts fifty dollars; they then beat up Gandalf and run off to "get some wine coolers... and hookers!". [[wikipedia:Tom Lenk|Tom Lenk]] plays Frodo, [[wikipedia:Thomas Fitzpatrick|Tom Fitzpatrick]] [[Gandalf]] and Scott Bridges is Sam.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Deadpool (film)|Deadpool]]===<br /> * Vanessa calls the heavy bearded mercenary "fat Gandalf".<ref>{{webcite|author=Kenneth Turan|articleurl=http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-mn-deadpool-review-20160212-column.html|articlename=Review: Ryan Reynolds' 'Deadpool' mutant gets off to a fun start but eventually wears out his welcome|dated=11 February 2016|website=[http://www.latimes.com/ latimes.com]|accessed=29 April 2016}}</ref><br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Stephen King's Desperation (film)|Desperation]]===<br /> * Upon encountering someone named "[[Peter Jackson]]", Collie Entragian (Ron Perlman) mentions he liked ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Donnie Darko|Donnie Darko]]===<br /> <br /> *Drew Barrymore, portraying a literature teacher, writes '[[cellar door]]' on the board. Jake Gyllenhall, portraying Donnie Darko (the main character), asks 'what is that supposed to mean?' She explains: ''"This famous linguist once said that of all the phrases in the English language, of all the endless combinations of words in all of history, that Cellar Door is the most beautiful."'' In the DVD commentary, director Richard Kelly vaguely attributes this remark to Edgar Allan Poe.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Drillbit Taylor|Drillbit Taylor]]===<br /> * Emmitt, who is very small, is not very fond of being called a Hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Duplex (film)|Duplex]]===<br /> * Alex comments that a stool that is too small for him was designed for a Hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Epic Movie|Epic Movie]]===<br /> * Leading up to the final battle, Legolas and Gimli can be seen at the Gnarnian camp.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Futurama: Bender's Game|Futurama: Bender's Game]]===<br /> * In this tv-movie, Bender comes up with the world "Cornwood", and the entire plot then shifts to ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> *The map of Cornwood is actually one of [[Gondor]] and [[Mordor]] mirrored, where [[Mount Doom]] is replaced by the "Geysers of [[wikipedia:Gary Gygax|Gygax]]".<br /> *A toilet-bowl version of [[Minas Tirith]] is called "Wipe Castle"; it even has a mad leader.<br /> *Main characters Fry and Leela are renamed into Frydo and Leegola.<br /> *Professor Farnsworth becomes the Great Wizard Greyfarn.<br /> *Amy Wong is Gynacaladriel, queen of the Nympho's<br /> *The object that needs to be destroyed ("in the Geysers of Gygax from whence it came") is a anti-backwards crystal. It has the shape of a [[Dungeons and Dragons|D&D]]-die, and is therefore called "the Die of Power". A heavily Gollum-like Frydo refers to it as "my duodecalicious" (referring to its twelve sides).<br /> *The Die doubles as a ''[[palantír]]''.<br /> *The character Mom has been renamed to Momon, mirroring ''[[Sauron]]''.<br /> *The [[Argonath]] are one heroic statue and a stack of garden gnomes. A rickety bridge hangs in between them.<br /> * A walking tree, named Treedledum, appears. He ends up as firewood.<br /> * Moria is portrayed as "the Cave of Hopelessness". The gang is attacked by [[wikipedia:Mork & Mindy|Morks]] there.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Heartbreak Kid (2007 film)|The Heartbreak Kid]]===<br /> * Eddie refers to a couple of kids as "homophobic hobbits".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The House That Dripped Blood|The House That Dripped Blood]]===<br /> * During the thunder storm, John Reid ([[Christopher Lee]]) reads the [http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/dmiller/000467.htm 1968 one volume paperback] of ''The Lord of the Rings''. It was purportedly Lee's own copy.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Imaginationland Episode I|Imaginationland: The Movie]]===<br /> * This South Park three part episode turned movie features several homages to ''The Lord of the Rings''.:<br /> * Episode Two, "The Drying Of The Balls", opens with an aerial shot of mountains, followed by the titles in [[Fonts|"Ringbearer" font]], similar to the opening of ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''. The music accompanying the scene is based on the film's soundtrack.<br /> * There's an [[Ent]] among the good characters.<br /> * [[Sauron]] and the [[Balrogs|Balrog]] are one of the evil imaginations. <br /> * One of the orcs resembles those from the [[Rankin/Bass]] productions.<br /> * Castle Sunshine is an exact replica of [[Rivendell]] as featured in the movie trilogy.<br /> * Gandalf is a member of the Council of Nine, along with Jesus, Aslan, Popeye, Wonder Woman, Luke Skywalker, Zeus, Morpheus (from ''The Matrix'') and the Tooth Fairy.<br /> * During the Battle of Castle Sunshine, several visual references are made to [[Peter Jackson]]'s [[Battle of Helm's Deep]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Inkheart (film)|Inkheart]]===<br /> * Elinor Loredan claims she has been to many places. After listing several real cities, she mentions Middle-earth, distant planets and Shangri-la. <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Juno (film)|Juno]]===<br /> * Juno compares Paulie Bleeker's mother to [[Samwise Gamgee]]: "Bleeker's mom was possibly attractive once, but now she looks like a Hobbit. You know, the fat one, that was in '[[wikipedia:The Goonies|The Goonies]]''." The last part is a reference to [[Sean Astin]], who made his big break in the 1985 movie ''The Goonies''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Judge John Deed|Judge John Deed]]===<br /> <br /> * In season 3, espisode 1 (Health Hazard), Judge John Deed (actor [[Martin Shaw]]) asks a child what book he is reading, and the boy respond: "Lord of the Rings" and the Judge said "Really? That is impressive for seven. What book you are?" boy said:"Two Towers" and the Judge "Wow! I was eleven before I read the first book".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Kiss Kiss Bang Bang|Kiss Kiss Bang Bang]]===<br /> * Harry Lockhart, played by Robert Downey Jr., says: "Don't worry, I saw [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|Lord of the Rings]]. I'm not going to end this 17 times." This is a reference to the many plot points that were tied up at the end of the third film.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Kronk's New Groove|Kronk's New Groove]]===<br /> * In one scene where Kronk gives a naked Rudy one of Yzma's Scam Youth Potions, he imitates the posture of [[Gollum]], even saying "[[Precious|My Precious!]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Lizzie McGuire Movie|The Lizzie McGuire Movie]]===<br /> * During the trip to Rome, Ms. Ungermeyer refers to her students as Halflings.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Lovely Bones (film)|The Lovely Bones]]===<br /> * When Susie is looking at Ray Singh from the bookstore, a poster for the 1973 [[Ballantine Books|Ballantine]] edition (with [[Peter S. Beagle]]'s introduction) is featured predominantly in the store's display. ''The Lovely Bones'' was directed by [[Peter Jackson]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Miss Cast Away and the Island Girls|Miss Cast Away and the Island Girls]]===<br /> * At the end of the film, Mike asks Julie to marry him. The moment she puts on the ring, she is transported into [[Wraith-world|another world]], where a voice commands her to "remove the Ring, [[precious]]". <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Mosaic (film)|Mosaic]]===<br /> * Maggie dislikes the stereotype that all drama club geeks have "all 10 hours of Lord of the Rings on DVD".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Net (1995 film)|The Net]]===<br /> *One of the IRC participants Angela chats with, has the nickname ''[[Gandalf]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Outlander (film)|Outlander]]===<br /> * One character is named "Boromir", unusual for a setting in 10th century Scandinavia.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Rise of the Guardians|Rise of the Guardians]]===<br /> <br /> *[[Tolkien fandom|Tolkien fans]] have suggested that the portrayal of the headquarters of Santa Claus in the film is reminiscent of Tolkien's illustration of the same in ''[[Letters from Father Christmas]]'', to the point of likely being a direct reference.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?8530-Father-Christmas-Letters-(merged)&p=508364#post508364|articlename=Father Christmas Letters|dated=|website=[http://www.thetolkienforum.com/ TheTolkienForum.com]|accessed=31 March 2013}}</ref><br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Run Ronnie Run|Run Ronnie Run]]===<br /> * Jeff Goldblum mentions hobbits in passing.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Sandlot 2|The Sandlot 2]]===<br /> * The movie starts with an opening narration modeled after [[Galadriel]]'s opening monologue in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Shadowlands (film)|Shadowlands]]===<br /> * Though Tolkien himself is absent from this movie about [[C.S. Lewis]], [[wikipedia:Douglas Gresham|Douglas Gresham]] can be seen reading a copy of ''[[The Hobbit]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Shrek 2|Shrek 2]]===<br /> * Fiona's wedding ring lands on her finger as it had on Frodo's in the Prancing Pony in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring|The Fellowship of the Ring]]''. In fiery red letters, "I love you" then appears on it.<br /> * In the DVD menu, one of the subtitles for the movie, as suggested by Donkey, is "Shrek 2: The Fellowship of the Donkeys".<br /> * In the scene right after Fiona drinks the tea her father gives her, you see the camera pan over a torture chamber where Shrek, Donkey, and Puss are being held captive. The outside of this fortress looks like Barad-dur, the chamber where Gollum was tortured in the first movie of LOTR.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Six Degrees of Separation (film)|Six Degrees of Separation]]===<br /> * As part of his con that he is a literature student, Paul mentions a dislike for ''The Lord of the Rings'' and other fantasy. Ironically, one of the wealthy and conned people is played by [[Ian McKellen]].<br /> <br /> ===[[Wikipedia:The Smurfs (film)|The Smurfs]]===<br /> *Gargamel is foound a prisoner in a New York prison facility. A [[moth]] flies into his cell and he asks from it to bring a swarm of [[Eagles]], reminiscing [[The Caverns of Isengard (scene)|the scene]] from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'' where [[Gandalf]] is trapped on the summit of [[Orthanc]]. The next day, instead of the Eagles, the moth brings a swarm of flies that carry Gargamel out.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Superhero Movie|Superhero Movie]]===<br /> * One of the social cliques mentioned are the "Frodo's", kids dressed as Hobbits.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Taxi (2004 film)|Taxi (2004)]]===<br /> * Features a Gollum-like "[[Precious|My Precious]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Transamerica|Transamerica]]===<br /> * Kevin mentions erotic themes in the movie trilogy; the phallic nature of [[Barad-dûr]] and the vagina-shaped [[Eye of Sauron]], as well as the perceived homosexuality of Frodo and Sam.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:X-Men Origins: Wolverine|X-Men Origins: Wolverine]]===<br /> * In the rear window of the Hudsons' truck, a sticker reads "[[The Riddle of Strider|Not all those who wander are lost]]".<br /> <br /> ==Television Series==<br /> <br /> <br /> === [[wikipedia:The Amazing World of Gumball|The Amazing World of Gumball]] ===<br /> * The episode "The Helmet", which resolves around a hat with magical abilities, takes several cues from Peter Jackson's movies. Gumball's obsessive behaviour mirrors Gollum's, and Darwin and Anais destruction of the hat by throwing it in a garbage compactor is based on Sam and Frodo's scene at the [[Cracks of Doom|Sammath Naur]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:American Dad!|American Dad!]]===<br /> * "Dungeons and Wagons" features a ''World of Warcraft''-like game. The "heroes" fight a troll in a cave, which turns to stone after being exposed to sunlight. One of the characters is a wizard named Flandag - Gandalf backwards. Hayley appears as a character called "[[Morwen (disambiguation)|Morwen]] Nerdbane".<br /> * In "All About Steve", an obsessed terrorist dresses as Frodo.<br /> * In the episode "Escape from Pearl Bailey", as the four nerds struggle to escape from the jocks and cheerleaders, Debbie yells "You shall not pass", before blocking the road of the jocks with a goth dance.<br /> * "Black Mystery Month", a ''Da Vinci Code''-homage, ends with president Jimmy Carter falling in lava, and a backback with evidence with him. He grasps for it much how Gollum grasped for it in the film.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Angel (TV series)|Angel]]===<br /> * In "The Magic Bullet", Jasmine considers herself verbose, and then compares it to the prologue of ''The Fellowship of the Ring''.<br /> * In "Damage", Andrew compares Spike's resurrection and gained strength to Gandalf's transformation into Gandalf the White after the death of [[Durin's Bane|the Balrog]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Archer (TV series)|Archer]]===<br /> * In episode 3, "Deviersity Hire", one of the missions mentioned by the team is "Operation [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]]". It turned out to be just blowing up a weapons truck; reviewing footage, one technician remarks the bad guys should have been wearing "Bilbo's coat of Dwarven mithril". The technician wants to go on to explain his pun, but is cut short.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes|Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes]]===<br /> * In the season two episode "Acts of Vengeance", Thor, Odin and Heimdall investigate the Dwarf realm Nidavellir after Surtur destroyed it. One of the cave's defenses resembles the [[Bridge of Khazad-Dûm]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Babylon 5|Babylon 5]]===<br /> *The first of the First Ones is called [[Irmo|Lorien]].<br /> * The God of the Underworld is called [[Morgoth]].<br /> * In the episode "The Geometry of Shadows", Elric says "There is an old saying: "Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger", [[Gildor Inglorion]]'s warning to [[Frodo Baggins]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Being Erica|Being Erica]]===<br /> * The premise of "Being Erica" is as follows: Erica gets "sent back" by her therapist to relive all awful moments of her past and set them straight. Episode 2.06, "Shhh...Don't Tell" features Fiona, an old classmate of Erica. She is sitting in the school hallway reading the black cover paperback edition of ''[[The Two Towers]]''. Erica tries to open up a conversation about the book and "the movies" - but because the flashback is set before the movies, Fiona asks her if she means the [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|Bakshi version]] instead. The flashback is set in Erica's final year in high school, in the 1980's; about 2 decades before the black cover paperbacks were published.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Big Bang Theory|The Big Bang Theory]]===<br /> * Leonard dresses as Frodo in "The Middle Earth Paradigm".<br /> * In "The Financial Permeability", Leonard tries to tag along. As a (bad) argument, he says that Frodo only succeded because Sam, Pippin and Merry went with him.<br /> * Sheldon has a [[Sideshow Collectibles|Sideshow]] ''Gollum'' statue on his desk in episode 3.11, "The Maternal Congruence".<br /> * In The "Precious Fragmentation", the gang finds the ring and have a contest as to who gets to keep the One Ring. Leonard even utters "My Precious" [Gollum style]<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Black Books|Black Books]]===<br /> * Bernard frequently refers to bumbling assistant Manny Bianco was "Lord of the Rings", "Gandalf" and several other bearded characters, in reference to Manny's unkempt appearance.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Bones (TV series)|Bones]]===<br /> * In "The Man in the Morgue", Seeley Booth dismisses voodoo as "and then we just toss the ring into the molten river, and blah blah blah"; a reference to the end of [[the One Ring]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Breaking Bad|Breaking Bad]]===<br /> * In the episode "Phoenix", Jesse and Jane are contemplating the need to leave the United States after a drug deal gone bad. Jesse, who is high at the time, suggests New Zealand, because that's where they made ''[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|Lord of the Rings]]''. He then totally loses it by suggesting Jane can paint the local castles and he can become a bush pilot.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Buffy the Vampire Slayer|Buffy the Vampire Slayer]]===<br /> * In "Gone", Warren creates an invisibility ray. He nearly zaps Jonathan with it, who gets angry. Warren tells him off with "cheer up, Frodo."<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Chowder (TV series)|Chowder]]===<br /> * In the episode "Burple Nurples", Chowder makes treats to vile that the only place where Mung Daal can destroy them is "Mount Fondoom", a giant fondue pan-shaped volcano.<br /> * In the episode "The Sleep Eater", Schnitzel and Mung Daal guard a fridge from a [[wikipedia:Night eating syndrome|sleep eating]] Chowder. When confronted by a giant hairy version of Chowder, Mung Daal yells "You Shall Not Pass!", and causes the ground to shudder with a giant fork. Chowder simply bends the fork and eats Mung Daal and Schnitzel.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Colbert Report|The Colbert Report]]===<br /> * During the week [[3 December|3]]-[[6 December]], ''The Colbert Report'' hosted "Hobbit Week". There were many [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] references, and interviews with [[Ian McKellen]], [[Martin Freeman]], [[Andy Serkis]], and [[Peter Jackson]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Danny Phantom|Danny Phantom]]===<br /> * In the season finale/TV film "Reality Trip", a fan at a convention yells "You shall not pass".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Dead Ringers (comedy)|Dead Ringers]]===<br /> {{main|Dead Ringers}}<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Dexter's Laboratory|Dexter's Laboratory]]===<br /> * In the episode "D&DD" (a "[[Dungeons and Dragons]]"-themed episode), Dexter is forced to play "Hodo, the Furry-footed Burrower", a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] parody.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Doctor Who|Doctor Who]]===<br /> * In "Last of the Time Lords", The Master refers to a speedily aged Tenth Doctor as "[[Gandalf]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Dollhouse (TV series)|Dollhouse]]===<br /> * Echo failed a test on medieval literature because she didn't know what "Mid-Evil" was - she mistakes Middle-english with Middle-earth by saying "like Hobbits?".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Drawn Together|Drawn Together]]===<br /> * In the episode "The One Wherein There Is A Big Twist", Clara puts on [[The One Ring|an invisibility ring]].<br /> * The ring returns in "The Other Cousin", where Foxxy hangs over the edge of a cliff, much like [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'', and asks Clara to give her her hand. Clara refuses, and takes the ring instead. Though the visual reference is to ''The Lord of the Rings'', the lines are taken from ''Aladdin''.<br /> * In "A Very Special Drawn Together Afterschool Special", it is revealed that the parents of Xandir live in a [[Bag End]]-like house.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Duck Dodgers (TV series)|Duck Dodgers]]===<br /> * The fantasy-episode "M.M.O.R.P.D." features, among other fantasy characters, "Scamwise of the Wee People" (voiced by [[S. Scott Bullock]]). Duck Dodgers refers to all the Cadet's friends as "Fellowship of the Dinks", and on their way to fulfil their quest, they encounter a [[Ents|walking talking tree]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:DuckTales (2017 TV series)|DuckTales]]===<br /> * In "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest", Louie calls the eponymous mountain "Mount Certain Doom".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Evil Con Carne|Evil Con Carne]]===<br /> * In "No No Nanook", Hector Con Carne and his gang (on a dog sled) try to escape the Mounted Police by going through an ice cave. There, Gollum leads Frodo down the path, refering to him as "[[precious]]" and "master" before attacking him to get the Ring. At that point, Con Carne's sled runs them over and flattens them. They get up, and in bandages, continue their way. Only now, they are run over by the mounties. Gollum uses "Schlemiegel" and "Halfling" rather than "Smeagol" and "Hobbit". Billy West provided his voice; Frodo does not have any lines.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Extras|Extras]]===<br /> * In [[Orlando Bloom]]'s episode, he mentions his rise in popularity that came with his part as Legolas, though most of the rest of the episode deals with ''Pirates of the Caribbean'' and a supposed dislike of Johnny Depp.<br /> * In [[Ian McKellen]]'s episode, Andy is cast in a play opposite McKellen. His role as Gandalf is mentioned several times, as well as New Zealand and Peter Jackson. <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Fairly OddParents|Fairly OddParents]]===<br /> * In "Wishology", Timmy's second wish "trilogy wish" is ''The Lord of the Rings''. Timmy and Wanda become Frodo and Sam, [[Daran Norris|Cosmo]] becomes Gollum, and Poof an Elf. The One Ring says "Made in [[New Zealand]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Family Guy|Family Guy]]===<br /> * In the episode "Sibling Rivalry", Stewie pushes the kid on the ground and says "Cry, cry like Sauron when he lost his contacts." The scene then shifts to a cutaway showing the Eye of Sauron frantically searching for his lost contact.<br /> * In the episode "I Take Thee Quagmire", Quagmire falls in love with Joan, the maid. It his first idea of how love could be, they hold hands as [[Aragorn]] and [[Arwen]] did in the first film. Joan then speaks faux-Elvish (untanslatable: "''Day univen hablendeth hal univen led hansed de-un, Quagmandir''"), translated in the subtitles as a paraphrase of Arwen's words in that scene. Quagmire then answers "''Denedain raydun habbledeth [[Gandalf|Mithrandir]] veon hellmisano''", translated as his trademark phrase "Giggity". See on [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku6QAYb6YAg YouTube]. <br /> * In "Petergeist", Chris is thrown from his bedroom window into the clutches of a living tree. The scene eventually parodies the epic confrontation between [[Gandalf]] and [[Durin's Bane]] when Herbert the Creepy Old Pedophile shows up to save Chris. After uttering the line "You shall not pass!", he brakes open the ground with his walker and fights off the tree, until they fall in a pond.<br /> * In "Baby Not on Board", Chris and his boss discuss the movies. Among the things mentioned is the age-old "Why didn't the Eagles fly the Ring to Mount Doom?".<br /> * In the opening sequence of "Road to the Multiverse", Brian is dressed as Frodo, and Stewie as Gollum.<br /> * In "Tiegs for Two", the lighting of the [[Beacons]]-scene is recreated, with very similar music.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Father of the Pride|Father of the Pride]]===<br /> * Hunter is a fan of ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Flash (2014 TV series)|The Flash]]===<br /> * In the episode "Welcome to Earth-2", Cisco wears a Mordor t-shirt.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends|Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends]]===<br /> * The episode "[[Duchess of Wails]]" features a version of the [[Battle of the Hornburg|Battle of Helm's Deep]], in which the main characters Mac and [[Keith Ferguson|Bloo]] attempt to storm [[Grey DeLisle|Duchess]] back into Foster's Home. However, those inside refuse to take the obnoxious Duchess back, and fight out a battle. Several elements from [[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|adaptation]] are covered, including ladders, battering rams, quotes, and even a character sliding down a wall on a shield.<br /> * In the episode "Partying is Such Sweet Soiree", a sugar-rushed Mac calls an item of sugar "[[Precious|My Precious]]", and hisses at sugar free gum.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Friends|Friends]]===<br /> *In the season 4 episode "The One Where They're Going to Party!", Ross and Chandler speak about a university friend, called Paul "Gandalf" Ganderson, the Party Wizard. When Joey asks why they call him Gandalf they reply "Didn't you read ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' in high-school?" to which they get "No, I had sex in high-school".<br /> * In episode 2.19, "The One Where Eddie Won't Go", Monica gets annoyed when Rachel calls her new favourite book, "Be Your Own Wind Keeper", "a little like ''The Hobbit.''"<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Gilmore Girls|Gilmore Girls]]===<br /> * ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' is referenced in the episodes "Keg! Max!", "Scene in a Mall", "Swan Song" and "So... Let's Talk", among others.<br /> * There is a [[Middle-earth]]-themed party in "The Hobbit, the Sofa, and Digger Stiles". At the party, a distressed girl (dressed as a Hobbit), asks why only boy hobbits went on the quest to [[Mount Doom]]. Lorelai then calms the girl by saying the girl hobbits did an even more dangerous thing - [[wikipedia:Bikini waxing|a Brazilian bikini wax]].<br /> * In the episode "Here Comes the Son", two of Sasha's dogs are called Frodo and Legolas.<br /> * In "Raincoats and Recipes", Lorelai thinks Aragorn would make a good husband.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Green Lantern: The Animated Series|Green Lantern: The Animated Series]]===<br /> * In "Love is a Battlefield", after being told by a Manhunter that "no man escapes the Manhunters", Queen Aga'po replies with "I am no man" before taking the Manhunter down.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Grey's Anatomy|Grey's Anatomy]]===<br /> * In "What Is It About Men", one of the guests at a comic convention is dressed as a hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy|The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy]]===<br /> * The episode "Beasts and Barbarians", an overall homage ot ''[[Dungeons and Dragons]]'', has a Gollum-like creature that riddles with [[Grey DeLisle|Mandy]]: "What's black and blue and red all over?", so which Mandy answers "You if you don't give me that Ring, pronto!". The Ring can be used to rule an evil army.<br /> * The episode "[[Here Thar Be Dwarves]]" spoofs the [[Council of Elrond]], and the Elf headquarters is basically [[Isengard]] with a large tree rather than [[Orthanc|a tower]].<br /> * "Complete and Udder Chaos" features several references to the films.<br /> * In "The Secret Decoder Ring", Billy thinks he is invisible after putting on a decoder ring.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:House (TV series)|House]]===<br /> * The episode 6.17, "Knight Fall", plays partly at a renaissance fair. House sarcasically refers to it as "Middle-earth" (despite it being a normal fair, not a fantasy one). He refers to Remy Hadley as "Frodo" (who then wonders whether she has short legs or hairy feet) and Chris Taub as "Gollum". Robert Chase has no clue who Frodo is.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Instant Star|Instant Star]]===<br /> * In "Oh Well, Whatever, Nevermind", Tommy calls Jamie [[Gollum]]; Jamie corrects him that his actual nickname is [[Gandalf]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:iZombie (TV Series)|iZombie]]===<br /> * In "Heaven Just Got a Little Bit Smoother", Ravi calls his unrequited crush Peyton "my precious", after which Liv expresses the hope he will not throw her in Mount Doom.<br /> * In "Wag the Tongue Slowly", Ravi plays ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]''.<br /> * "Twenty-Sided, Die" is a ''Dungeons & Dragons''-themed episode, with some references to ''The Lord of the Rings''. Second breakfast is mentioned in sexual foreplay, and Liv refers to her group of friends as "Fellowship of the Dorks".<br /> * In "My Really Fair Lady", Liv, played by New Zealand actress Rose McIver, pretends to be a New Zealand actress to distract a security guard. She claims she was an Elf extra in the movies.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The IT Crowd|The IT Crowd]]===<br /> * In "The Speech", Douglas calls himself the boss, "Head Honcho. El Numero Uno. Mr. Big. The Godfather. Lord of the Rings. The Bourne... Identity. Er... Taxi Driver. Jaws."<br /> * In "Jen The Fredo", Moss mishears Roy saying 'Fredo' and instead hears 'Frodo'. His response: "He took the ring to Mordor!"<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Just Shoot Me!|Just Shoot Me!]]===<br /> * In "The Last Temptation of Elliot", Dennis makes fun of Elliot's newfound religion. He claims he loves the Lord - he loves all the Lords: [[The Lord of the Rings|The one of the Rings]], [[wikipedia:Lord of the Dance|the one of the Dance]], [[wikipedia:Twelve Days of Christmas|the ten that are always a-leapin'...]]<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The King of Queens|The King of Queens]]===<br /> * In "Shear Torture", Spence (Patton Oswalt) wants to visit Fantasy Fest '05, his friends ridicule him for it. In response, he calls his three pudgy, middle-eaged friends "Hobbits".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Legends of Tomorrow|Legends of Tomorrow]]===<br /> * A fictionalized version of Tolkien appears in "Fellowship of the Spear", where he is played by [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4791710/ Jack Turner]. He is a second lieutenant at the [[Battle of the Somme]]. The team of main characters seeks him out because he wrote a treatise called ''The Burden of the Purest Heart'' and they think he can help them destroy the Spear of Destiny. They locate the grave of Gawain and the blood of Christ, but are forced to flee. Tolkien remains behind.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Lewis (TV series)|Lewis]]===<br /> * "Allegory of Love" deals with a fantasy author on the [[University of Oxford|Oxford]] campus. Tolkien's work (along with [[Charles Williams|Williams']] and [[C.S. Lewis|Lewis']]) is mentioned several times by Professor Deering (played by James Fox), though he incorrectly pronounces the /ie/ in "Tolkien" as two individual letters. Several other fantasy sites of Oxford are also featured: [[Addison Walk]], [[Basil Blackwell|Blackwell]]'s book store, and ''[[The Eagle and Child]]''. The fantasy author, Dorian Chase, is part of a group of writers dubbed "[[Inklings|The New Inklings]]". Hathaway concludes the episode with [[Hugo Dyson]]'s remark "No more Elves!", paraphrased as "Not more flipping Elves - though he didn't say flipping".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Lizzie McGuire|Lizzie McGuire]]===<br /> * In "Clue-Less", socially awkward Larry Tudgeman tells Veruca he believes he's born in the wrong time period - he would be better at home in the [[Third Age]] of Middle-earth.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Lost (TV series)|Lost]]===<br /> * In "Further Instructions", Charlie ([[Dominic Monaghan]]) remarks that he heard trees are great conversationalists; this was a deliberate reference to Monaghan's role as Merry opposite [[Treebeard]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Magnum P.I.|Magnum P.I.]]===<br /> * In a flashback to the Vietnam war in the episode "Two Birds of a Feather", a signals officer uses the callsigns "Frodo" and "Gandalf".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Married with Children|Married with Children]]===<br /> * In "God Help Ye Merry Bundymen", Al and Griff are fired on Christmas day. Al then becomes an "Elfineer" - the driver of a toy train for children. Upon seeing him in the ridiculous outfit, Griff remarks that he's one ugly Hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Midsomer Murders|Midsomer Murders]]===<br /> * In "Judgement Day" (co-starring a pre-trilogy [[Orlando Bloom]]) Barnaby and Troy visit a house called "[[Lothlórien|Lothlorian]]" ''(sic)''. DCI Barnaby mentions that it's from ''The Lord of the Rings'' by "J.R." Tolkien. DS Troy admits to not reading it, and never finishing ''The Hobbit'' because he doesn't like Dwarves and "Fairies".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir|Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir]]===<br /> * In "Gorizilla", loyal fan Wayhem tries to keep the titular monster away from Adrien Agreste by shouting "You shall not pass!", to no avail.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:My Hero (TV series)|My Hero]]===<br /> * Crazy neighbor Tyler often claims he has fantasy characters, like Gandalf and Frodo, in his apartment.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:My Name Is Earl|My Name Is Earl]]===<br /> * In "Something to Live For", Earl compares a girl to an [[uruk-hai|Uruk]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:My Parents Are Aliens|My Parents Are Aliens]]===<br /> * In the episode "The Wedding", Josh refer to a wedding ring as "My precious".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:NewsRadio|NewsRadio]]===<br /> * In episode 4.14, "Security Door", Matthew Brock sings of "Frodo, the paranoid gnome".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The O.C.|The O.C.]]===<br /> * In "The Day After Tomorrow", Marissa and Summer compare Seth's behavior to Gollum's. They didn't read the books, but were somewhat forced to watch the movie. They only remembered it as "[[wikipedia:Brokeback Mountain|gay guys on the mountain]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Office (U.S. TV series)|The Office (US series)]]===<br /> * In "The Alliance", it is revealed that Dwight Schrute's passwords are "[[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]]" and "[[Gollum]]".<br /> * In "Business Ethics", Jim has a bet with Dwight, in which Dwight can't take personal breaks or have conversations about anything other than works. To taunt him, Jim and Andy start "discussing" ''[[wikipedia:Battlestar Galactica|Battlestar Galactica]]'', saying everything wrong on purpose. Summarizing the plot, Jim says: "It's about this guy, [[wikipedia:Albus Dumbledore|Dumbledore]] [[wikipedia:Lando Calrissian|Calrissian]], who's got to take [[The One Ring|The Ring]] back to [[Mordor]]." <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:One Tree Hill|One Tree Hill]]===<br /> * In "Pictures of You", Lucas does a Gollum impression.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Operation: Kids Next Door|Operation: Kids Next Door]]===<br /> * The episode "Operation K.N.O.T." features "Froggy McDougal", a [[Gollum]]-lookalike. Froggy is voiced by [[Dave Wittenberg]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Portal (TV Series)|Portal]]===<br /> * Shorty the Dwarf frequently yells "You have my axe!".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Powerless (TV Series)|Powerless]]===<br /> * In "Cold Season", Emily puts down Teddy by saying she built him up too much in his head - like she did with ''The Hobbit''. Teddy strives not to be a disappointment by saying "I am not the Hobbit movies".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Red vs. Blue|Red vs. Blue]] ===<br /> * In the season 13 finale, "The End", Doc/O'Malley says "Fly, you fools!" while holding off enemy troops.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Robot Chicken|Robot Chicken]]===<br /> * The cast of Surreal Life become the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] in "A Piece of the Action".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Sarah Silverman Program|The Sarah Silverman Program]]===<br /> * The first episode of the second season, "[[Bored of the Rings (book)|Bored of the Rings]]", takes the often used spoof name, but does not contain any references to ''The Lord of the Rings''; instead, the subplot is about ''[[Dungeons and Dragons]]'' and the complete lack of reality of its players. <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated|Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated]]===<br /> * In "Wrath of the Krampus", Sheriff Stone compares himself with a "smelly wizard from Center Earth" after he is mystically made older by the episode's villain.<br /> * In "Aliens Among Us", the flashback shows the Irish thief O'Flaherty breaking into a hobbit hole.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Scrubs (TV series)|Scrubs]]===<br /> * In the episode "My Old Man", Elliott does a [[Gollum]]-impression.<br /> * In "Our Meeting with J.D.", J.D. gives Howie the nickname "Gollum".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Sex and the City|Sex and the City]]===<br /> * In "Splat!", food critic Martin Grable is pejoratively referred to as a Hobbit.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Simpsons|The Simpsons]]===<br /> * In the episode "Dude, Where's My Ranch", a Gollum-parody called "Cleanie" appears. He is voiced by [[Andy Serkis]].<br /> * The episode "[[Rome-Oh and Julie-Eh]]" spoofs the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields|Battle of Pelennor Fields]], the [[Battle of the Hornburg]] and also contains dialogue from [[Dáin Ironfoot]]'s encounted with the messenger of [[Sauron]].<br /> * The Comic Book Guy's comic store has competition from stores called ''Mylar Baggins'' in North Haverbrook and ''Frodo's'' in Shelbyville.<br /> * In ''The Simpsons Game'' (a video game spin-off of the series), Homer exclaims "[[Precious|My precious!]]" upon receiving a much desired keycard. The game also features ''Mobbits'', Hobbit parodies.<br /> * In the episode "That '90s Show", Comic Book Guy tells people ''The Lord of the Rings'' can not be made into film. The episode is set in the nineties, but created in 2008.<br /> * In episode 3 of season 20, "Double, Double, Boy in Trouble", Simon Woosterfield's horse is called [[Shadowfax]].<br /> * In the episode "Moms I'd Like to Forget", the comic book guy begins his tale with the starting lines of the Silmarllion, quoting the names of Arda and Morgoth.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Sopranos|The Sopranos]]===<br /> * In the episode "Whoever Did This?", Justin Cifaretto is badly injured during a bow and arrow game with a friend, who were reportedly reenacting scenes from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''. Justin's hospitalization leads to a fight between Justin's father, capo Ralph Cifaretto, and don Tony Soprano, which the former does not survive.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:South Park|South Park]]===<br /> * "Nurse Gollum" is a nurse with a conjoined twin fetus on her head.<br /> * The episode ''[[The Return of the Fellowship of the Ring to the Two Towers]]'' is a completely Tolkien-themed episode.<br /> * In the episode "Go God Go", the otters prepare for war in a similar fashion as the Rohirrim in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''.<br /> * In "Make Love, Not Warcraft", a statuette of [[Durin's Bane]] can be seen.<br /> * The episode 6.14, "The Death Camp of Tolerance" features several references, both to Peter Jackson's films as to [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]].<br /> :::In order to get fired for being gay (and sue the school for millions), Mr. Garrisson stuffs Lemmiwinks the gerbil up his assistants ass. The gerbil's voyage inside the assistant is accompanied by a variation of "[[The Greatest Adventure]]":<br /> <br /> <poem style="font-style:italic; margin-left:50px;"><br /> A great adventure<br /> Is waiting for you ahead<br /> Hurry onward Lemmiwinks<br /> Or you will soon be dead<br /> The journey before you <br /> May be long and filled with woe<br /> But you must escape the gay man's ass<br /> So your tale can be told.<br /> </poem><br /> :::The song goes on any time Lemmiwinks journey is told. When the assistant takes a pepto pill, it falls down his throat and plunges into the stomach like [[Gandalf]] and [[Durin's Bane|the Balrog]] did in ''The Two Towers''. In the stomach, Lemmiwinks meets the katatafish, who will only let him pass the esophagus if he solves a riddle. What the riddle is is never shown.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Spaceballs: The Animated Series|Spaceballs: The Animated Series]]===<br /> * The episode "Lord of the Onion Rings" spoofs ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> :* The titular onion ring was baked in a giant deep fryer, modeled after [[Barad-dûr]]. It's in a land called Lardor.<br /> :* Barf (dressed as a hobbit) waits nearby, resting against a tree with a strain of grass in his mouth. When hero Lone Starr arrives, he welcomes him with "You're late".<br /> :* In order to sniff out the Onion Ring (its special power is that its scent can knock out armies), villains President Skroob and [[Dee Bradley Baker|Dark Helmet]] use a replica of Barad-Dûr that has a pink nose rather than a [[Eye of Sauron|red eye]].<br /> :* After putting the Ring in the microwave, Lone Starr tells Barf to touch it - but it's still hot.<br /> :* Though set inside rather than in a patio, the "Council of Yogurt" is clearly modeled after the [[Council of Elrond]]. Barf, the "hobbit", volunteers, but only because the rest chickens out. The rest decide to tag along, and Yogurt calls them "The Fellowship of the Onion Ring".<br /> :* Yogurt, a Yoda parody, gives everone "indecipherable code names". Barf becomes "Barf [[Baggins Family|Baggins]]". Lone Starr becomes "Lone Starragorn", and princess Vespa "Vesperwen". Yogurt does not give himself a name, but puts on a pointy hat anyway.<br /> :* Skroob then refers to Lone Starragorn as "Lone [[Arathorn II|Starrathorn]]'s heir"<br /> :* Yogurt and "Dark [[Saruman|Heluman]]" discuss the latter's fall from grace.<br /> :* Dot Matrix, a robot, serves as "[[Galadriel|Galadriot Matrix]]". Her [[Mirror of Galadriel|mirror]] is filled with oil.<br /> :* On a moonlit hill, Starr speaks to Vespa in an unintelligible gibberish, similar to Elvish. Only it wasn't another language, he was speaking with his mouth full.<br /> :* The team has to cross the treacherous Hot Lard Swamps.<br /> :* Dark Helmet mixes up the terms "Dark Army" and "Orc Army", and created a Dork Army. They birth like the [[Uruk-Hai]] in ''The Fellowship of the Ring''.<br /> :* Upon splitting up, Yogurt yells at Barf to keep the Onion ring secret and safe.<br /> :* Barf doubles as [[Gollum]], coveting his [[Precious|"delicious"]]. In the end, he bites off his own finger.<br /> :* Yogurt flies into Lardor on a newly introduced bird to pick up Barf.<br /> :* The [[The Fellowship Reunited|bed scene]] is featured.<br /> :* Lone Starragorn is crowned with a replica of the Crown of Gondor.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:SpongeBob SquarePants|SpongeBob SquarePants]]===<br /> * In the episode "Banned in Bikini Bottom", a banner reads "Keep it Secret, Keep it Safe".<br /> * "Dunces and Dragons" features references to many fantasy series. The domain of the evil Plankton resembles [[Mordor]], and his fortress [[Barad-dûr]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Stargate Atlantis|Stargate Atlantis]]===<br /> * Dr. Bill Lee is a [[Tolkien fandom|Tolkien fan]], and in the episode "Critical Mass", he uses the concept of the [[warning beacons of Gondor]] to explain how to relay a message to Atlantis.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Star Trek: Deep Space Nine|Star Trek: Deep Space Nine]]===<br /> * In the episode "Family Business", the Ferengi are shown to live in Hobbit-like houses.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Still Standing (TV series)|Still Standing]]===<br /> * In the episode "Still Flunking", Bryan has to climb a wall to pass gym. When he finally tries it, he says "It's Hobbit time", referring to his less-than-athletic body shape.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Stranger Things (TV Series)|Stranger Things]]===<br /> * Will Byers goes missing on a forested street he and his friends call "[[Mirkwood]]". The password to their "secret" cabin is "[[Radagast]]".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Superman: The Animated Series|Superman: The Animated Series]]===<br /> * In the episode "The Hand of Fate", the wicca character Rainsong is owner of a bookstore called "The Dancing Hobbit".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Supernatural (TV series)|Supernatural]]=== <br /> * In "Hell House", Harry Spangler exclaims "Sweet Lord of the Rings!" as an expression of surprise.<br /> * In the episode "Goodbye Stranger", Dean says to Sam that he may not be able to carry his burden but he can carry him. Sam replies that he just quoted ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> * In the episode "Good God, Y'all!" Dean asks Sam 'pit stop at Mt Doom?' after gaining the horseman War's ring.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012 TV series)|Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles]]===<br /> * In the second season episode "Mazes & Mutants", the Turtles play out a [[Dungeons and Dragons]]-like game. The episode features multiple references to ''The Lord of the Rings'', including "The Fellowship of Turtles", and Michelangelo refers to his special ring as "precious". [[Sean Astin]] stars as Raphael.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Teen Titans Go! (TV series)|Teen Titans Go!]]===<br /> * In "Cool School", Ravager mockingly calls sorceress Raven Gandalf.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Ugly Betty|Ugly Betty]]===<br /> * In "Filing for the Enemy", Wilhelmina calls Betty "the One". Betty responds with: "What, like ''The Lord of the Rings''?", referring to [[the One Ring]].<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:VeggieTales|VeggieTales]]===<br /> * The 27th episode, "[[Lord of the Beans]]", is a pretty overt parody. The series was created to teach Christian lessons to children; this episode is (quite fitting) about unselfishness.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Voltron: Legendary Defender|Voltron: Legendary Defender]]===<br /> * In the season 6 episode "Monsters & Mana", the Paladins play a [[Dungeons and Dragons]]-style game. Shiro's character is introduced in a a shady alcove in an inn, much like [[Aragorn]] was in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Viva_La_Bam|Viva La Bam]]===<br /> * In "Community Disservice", Phil says that he had to park by the [[smial|Hobbit Hole]]. In the next scene there is a picture of a shed named Hobbit Hole.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Venture Bros.|The Venture Bros.]]===<br /> * In "Self Medication", Hank, Dean and Sergeant Hatred go to a fantasy movie "Rings of the Realm".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Visionaries:_Knights_of_the_Magical_Light|Visionaries: Knights of the Magical Light]]===<br /> * This series, which has been set in a fantasy world, features several characters named after Arthurian legend - Mortdredd, Merklynn, Ectar - and also one distinctively similar to one from [[Arda]]: the main female protagonist, "Galadria", who has the power to heal.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Walking Dead|The Walking Dead]]===<br /> * In the episode "Cherokee Rose", Rick comments that his cousin had to wait in a car for 24 hours and spent the time listening to an [[audiobook]] of ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Will & Grace|Will & Grace]]===<br /> * In "Ice Cream Balls", one of Will's clients is a big ''The Lord of the Rings'' fan. Will responds with that he likes any movie in which "two boys named Merry and Pippin risk their lives for a good piece of jewelry". The client makes verious other references to the films - he want to retire and count his [[precious]] money and he wants Jack to be "the Lord of his Ring".<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:W.I.T.C.H. (TV series)|W.I.T.C.H.]]===<br /> * In "G is for Garbage", the character [[Steven Jay Blum|Blunk]] does a Gollum-like "[[precious]]" when someone tries to steal a prized piece of garbage from him. <br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Wonderfalls|Wonderfalls]]===<br /> * Because Jaye lacks hometown pride, Mahandra calls her "a Hobbit that hates the Shire" in episode 6, "Barrel Bear".<br /> [[Category:Parodies]]<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The World's Greatest Super Friends|The World's Greatest Super Friends]]===<br /> * The episode "[http://superfriends.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lord_of_Middle_Earth The Lord of Middle Earth]" (1979) uses the name "[[Middle-earth]]", as well as a fantasy setting, but is not directly inspired by Tolkien's works. [[Casey Kasem]] had a supporting role as Robin; [[Bonnie Callahan|Bonnie GoodKnight]] is credited as a background artist.<br /> <br /> ==Video games==<br /> ===[[wikipedia:DC Universe Online|DC Universe Online]]===<br /> * One of challenge boss Tiger Eye's lines is "Meat is back on the menu", taken from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Longest Journey|The Longest Journey]]===<br /> *In the world of Arcadia, the lair of the Gribbler creature is described as "a cozy [[smial|hobbit hole]]".<br /> *Still in Arcadia, April can find ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' among the books of Abnaxus' library. She will comment that the classics are common in both worlds.<br /> *The fifth chapter of the game is titled ''[[There and Back Again]]''.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:The Pandora Directive|The Pandora Directive]]===<br /> *When Archie Elis asks Tex Murphy his identity, the player can select among three responses, one being described "Hobbit Humor". Selecting it, Tex says "I am [[Gandalf]], Wielder of the [[Glamdring]] and Slayer of the [[Durin's Bane|Balrog]]."<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:School Days (visual_novel)|School Days]]===<br /> *[[Silmaril]] is one of the movies Makoto can choose to have he and Kotonoha go to on their date, which, if chosen, strengthens Makoto's relationship with her. During the movie Kotonoha tells Makoto that it is based off a book written by a 19th century professor.<br /> <br /> ===[[wikipedia:Simon the Sorerer|Simon the Sorerer]]===<br /> *A creature called [[Gollum]] can be found fishing. He will help the player get a [[One Ring|ring of invisibility]].<br /> *Talking with Gollum, will also refer to stories such as "''[[The Hobbit|The Short Creature with Furry Feet]]''" and "''[[The Lord of the Rings|The Master of the Finger Ornaments]]''".<br /> <br /> ===[[Wikipedia:Under a Killing Moon|Under a Killing Moon]] (novelization)===<br /> *When Tex Murphy tastes a cigarette he doesn't like, he describes it as "The kind of creation [[Sauron]] and his minions worked through the night creating in the foul-stench bowels of [[Barad-dûr|Barad-Dur]]".<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> *[[Locations named after Tolkien's works]]<br /> *[[Species named after Tolkien's works]]<br /> {{references}}<br /> [[Category:Lists]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=306733 User talk:Ederchil 2019-08-30T17:21:54Z

<p>Ederchil: /* Complaiment */</p> <hr /> <div>{{usertalk}}<br /> <br /> {| align="right"<br /> | __TOC__<br /> |}<br /> <center><br /> =Archive=<br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br /> = 2017 =<br /> </center><br /> <br /> == Discussion ==<br /> <br /> Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br /> <br /> == Discussions ==<br /> Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaint and Discussions ==<br /> <br /> Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> == About my edit ==<br /> <br /> Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br /> <br /> Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> ::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Battle under the Trees ==<br /> <br /> First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br /> I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br /> <br /> :I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br /> <br /> == What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br /> <br /> No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br /> <br /> As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Limpe ==<br /> <br /> Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br /> <br /> :It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == About my talk page ==<br /> <br /> Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Do not use "Heil". Ever. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::The way I’m using it is a joke tho (it’s a parody)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::That is not a joking matter. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:32, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::::Whatever--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Tolkien Ancestry ==<br /> <br /> Hi!<br /> <br /> I would like to ask if it is possible to update all entries concerning the Tolkien Family history. My research in the Tolkien genealogy has changed a lot in this matter. See for instance here:<br /> <br /> http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/2017/05/john-benjamin-tolkien-1753-1819-summary.html<br /> <br /> Now we are 100% sure that first two Tolkiens in London were brothers, sons of Christian and Anna Euphrosina Tolkien from Petershagen in Gdańsk (German Danzig). The Professor's great-great-grandfather was born in June 1752 and was baptized in St Salvator Lutheran church in Gdańsk. His brother emmigrated in 1766 first to Amsterdam, then in 1770 to London. His younger brother, Johann Benjamin joined him in ca. 1772. Both brothers married the English girls and Daniel became furrie and John Benjamin a clock and watch maker.<br /> <br /> Their father was born in Kreuzburg, East Prussia in 1706. We know also the other generations:<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family from Prussia <br /> (15th-17th c.)|Michel Tolkien (b. ca. 1620, Globuhnen by Kreuzburg, Prussia)|Christianus Tolkien <br /> (1663-1746, Kreuzburg, Kingdom of Prussia)|Christian Tolkien (b. 1706 in Kreuzburg, d. 1791 in Gdańsk, Polish Prussia)= Anna Euphrosina Tolkien, née Bergholtz (1719-1792)|Johann (John) Benjamin Tolkien (b. 1752 in Gdańsk, d. 1819 in London)|George Tolkien (1784-1840)<br /> |John Benjamin Tolkien(1807-1896)|Arthur Reuel Tolkien(1857-1896)|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien(1892-1973)<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family name belongs to a big Prussian family of names with the ending -in, -yn, -ien, -iehn and comes from Tolk-īn 'a descendant of Tolk'. Tolk is a Prussian name meaning 'translator, negotiator'<br /> <br /> The Tolkiens in the 16th-18th centuries lives in East Prussia. You will not find the Tolkiens in Saxony, because it is a Prussian family of medieval roots in the Teutonic State. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :The current text is what Tolkien himself believed to be the origin of his family and family name. He mentioned it multiple times - [[Letter 165]] and [[Letter 324]], for example. He explicitly dismisses the association with Tolk- ("interpreter", "spokesman") in [[Letter 349]]. Even if that blog were true - I'm not saying it isn't - outright removing the current text and replacing it with things that contradict it is not the way to go. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I am sorry. I am not a Wikipedist, I have problems with proper editing in the places like this. I undestrand, Ederchil your position. The clue is that Professor Tolkien couldn't know things we know today. My research is known to the Tolkien family today, it is already accepted by the Tolkien Society (see their website) and is included in the newest "The J.R.R. Tolkien. Companion and Guide". I spent last year in the archives to find the truth about the Tolkien genealogy. Only you know how to enter the information from me into your Tolkien Gateway. Plese, think about including the information about the roots in Gdańsk and East Prussia. And about the alternative etymology of the Tolkien family name. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :I have no problems with including it, as long as it is properly sourced and the current is not removed. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Can you help me with it, Ederchil? As a source you can cite Ch. Scull, W. G. Hammond, "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide" (2017), G 828, 1298. When they publish my article in the "Tolkien Studies" there will be another source for the Tolkien Gateway (I will inform you about the publication). Or you can quote the Tolkien Society website: https://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/biography/<br /> <br /> "The name “Tolkien” (pron.: Tol-keen; equal stress on both syllables) was believed by the family (including Tolkien himself) to be of German origin; Toll-kühn: foolishly brave, or stupidly clever—hence the pseudonym “Oxymore” which he occasionally used; however, this quite probably was a German rationalisation of an originally Baltic Tolkyn, or Tolkīn. In any case, his great-great grandfather John (Johann) Benjamin Tolkien came to Britain with his brother Daniel from Gdańsk in about 1772 and rapidly became thoroughly Anglicised."<br /> <br /> I am very weak as a Wikipedist. I don't understand the language of the coding in here. Please, help me.<br /> <br /> = 2018 =<br /> == Lots of time to learn, my boy ==<br /> <br /> It is clear you bring your own view, only, to this Wiki.<br /> <br /> A moderator's task is to intervene when new users first stray from your narrow course.<br /> <br /> Not after much effort.<br /> <br /> This is clearly habitual.<br /> <br /> Now I see why so many Wiki's exist on this topic.<br /> <br /> Some even allow flexibility and detail.<br /> <br /> You are young and I hope you have the time to really understand Tolkien's great Work.<br /> <br /> There seems to be a lot of Noldor in your ATTITUDE.<br /> <br /> But it's YOUR Wiki, so...<br /> <br /> [[User:Fudoki|Fudoki]] 21:00, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :So much for the skin of Ironfoot. Wait, was the skin of Ironfoot ever mentioned? Guess not. Silly me.<br /> :I admire that you want to help out. But putting in effort does not automatically mean it's a well-written summary of the life of Fingon. It was practically unsalvageable, a jumbled collection of clauses.<br /> :I'm not young by most standards, and I'm more Dwarf than Noldo. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:16, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == "Other" label ==<br /> <br /> You wrote "again, this is not what Other is for" in the Elured and Elurin articles... So I repeat what I asked in the Talk:Elwing page: Given the fact that Eluréd, Elurín and Elwing present some difficulties in being classified in terms of elf/man/half-elf, why not use a neutral label? Despite the name "other", the label is an empty one, the character in question is not put in some list of "strange races" or nothing like that. See [[Falathar]] and companions: they were elves or men, but we don't know exactly what they are, so the "other" label was applied in their articles. If you insist this is wrong, I think a third way should be find, because the "elf" label doesn't seem right to me: Dior was mortal, your sons couldn't be elves. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 19:31, 1 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Those two are three quarters Elf. They're more Elvish than Half-elves. And even Half-elves are still identified by their Elvenness (they're not called Half-men) so giving them a undetermined elf infobox is still better than lumping them with "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: You explore a very subjective line of argumentation, percentage of elvish blood and the word "half-elf"... I don't see why this so personal thinking would be better, instead of a neutral label - "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox" is another subjective vision of yours, nothing in the box says that - or even a “sinda” label, for example... But whatever, I think you had a pet peeve with my editions since the beginning, reverting them and writing hardly nothing, and now have found a new way to continue disagreeing - particularly because this argumentation of yours is a new one, you insisted earlier on restoring the "half-elf" label, and, indeed, you replaced Elurín in the Category:Half-Elves and it still remain so... [[User:Haran|Haran]] 21:07, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Unnecessary block? ==<br /> <br /> What did you block [[User:JaquelineKitchen]] for? She (I'm assuming it is "she") had not done anything wrong...--[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 14:27, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a spambot. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Okay, I understand now. Thanks for expalaining. --[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 13:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB ==<br /> <br /> Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB. Ik heb valide informative toegevoegd. Vervolgens wordt dit verwijderd. Daar heb ik geen zin in. Dan maar niet. {{unsigned|PeterNC}}<br /> <br /> :Er zijn zoveel fans wereldwijd dat we toch enige grenzen moeten stellen. Mensen die boeken of artikelen gepubliceerd hebben krijgen voorrang. <br /> :Ik heb nog geprobeerd om het te herschrijven, maar er was bar weinig aan te doen. Sommige delen waren woord voor woord (en dode link voor dode link) overgenomen van [[Haradrim (Tolkien Society)]] en andere waren niet meer dan reclame. Dat het valide is betekent niet dat wij het in de aangeboden vorm maar moeten gebruiken. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == parabombing what?! ==<br /> <br /> But what the matter with my edits??? They are not vandalism, this is a fact that spiders don't have stingers, if Shelob was born in the First Age, she's obviously several millenia old, and square kilometer converting is also useful for somebody not mastering well Anglo-Saxon metric system. Not every statement needs sourcing, it would be nonsense. [[Special:Contributions/193.54.167.180|193.54.167.180]] 18:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The age needs to be a number. Even if an approximation, it needs to be written out in numbers with the source in a ref and any explanation in a note. <br /> :Is there any source spiders don't have stingers in Middle-earth?<br /> :It's not the "Anglo-Saxon metric system". Or the Imperial system, as it's actually mean (it's not metric). The mentioned measures are the translation convention Tolkien used for the [[Lár]]/league and the [[Ranga]]/yard, and presumably other units of measurement too. A mile in the real world is a third of a league, and that's usually used in analysis of scale, but as the Númenorean reckoning was decimal, one could question whether they had a "mile" equivalent, or if they used tenths of leagues or fifths or something. But miles were the terms Tolkien used. Not kilometers. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure if the term "square mile" is even used. I've removed the comparison of real world countries because this minute difference.<br /> :Parabombing is the wiki practice of plonking a sentence within parentheses in the middle of a paragraph, without regard for what it does for the sentence. If you cannot work it into the section in a natural, readable way, don't add it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:29, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> = 2019 =<br /> ==Spammer Problem and Trying to Fix It==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, I've been trying to restore the infobox on the [[Wizards]] article after [[Special:Contributions/66.203.18.47|66.203.18.47]] spammed it and then restored it to normal, but I can't find the template. Also, I've seen that this user has been consistently spamming and restoring articles, and that is definitely a rotten thing to do. Can you help me? Thank you! -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Also, he completely messed up the entire article, and I've been trying to revert his edits. It's not working, though. -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Never mind, I fixed it, but I'm still concerned about this user. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> :Done. An easy way to fix it is just go to the page's history and edit and save the last version from before the vandalism. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:10, 24 January 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Bedankt voor de hulp(Please excuse my unprofessional Dutch)! I hope I'm not being too much of a pest; that's what happens when a 14-year-old signs up on a Tolkien wiki. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> == Article Image Question ==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, can you look [[Talk:Meriadoc Brandybuck|here]] really quickly and give your opinion on it? Thanks! —{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 00:20, 19 Feb 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Discrepancies on Arvegil ==<br /> <br /> So just how do you propose to acknowledge that the published text of TLotR leaves no room for the birth year or lifespan attributed to Arvegil by "The Heirs of Elendil" to be correct?...letting the latter stand uncontradicted is just unconscionable.[[Special:Contributions/12.144.5.2|12.144.5.2]] 15:57, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :We generally have "Other versions of the Legendarium" as a section header for any out-of-universe information. But that wasn't the only issue. Sources need to be in-line with [[:Category:Citation templates|specific citation templates]], and it should just be a mention of the discrepancy, without a conclusion about its canonicity.<br /> :And you should never start anything with "It should be noted". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hi, I just rewrite the edit, so it fixes the TG style and article structure. I recommend Mr.12.144.5.2 to read TG policy on canonicity before saying what's canon. I leave to the admins to let be my edit or not, as I don't have those book editions, so I can't check them or cite them properly. It should be rewrite anyways, I know my English is not the best, but it took me a while to understand the issue with a whole paragraph in just one sentence. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::That did not address any of the style issues. It was the same text with just a header, no markup or style changes. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::I did the markup and removed some ideas. May the anonymous editor rewrite it if he is so interested, I won't.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:35, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::Removed [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arvegil&curid=1320&diff=306264&oldid=306218 the lot]. The Aragorn comparison wasn't in the original source anyway. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==User name==<br /> Hi, would it be possible to change my username, please? I first wanted to edit a few things, became addicted to edition and now it feels weird seeing my name everywhere. If it's not possible or too difficult, it doesn't matter, I'll keep editing anyways. Thank you very much.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:41, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> :It should be possible, but I'm not sure how. Ask [[User:Mith|Mith]].--{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaiment ==<br /> <br /> Why did you delete all of my editings? Do you have any problem with me? Do you have any idea how much time it took me to upload these images? {{unsigned|Gegou}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I have no issue with you, don't worry. I also didn't delete all your additions; I've kept the [[Talion]] article. As for the images, they did not meet the [[Tolkien Gateway:Image policy|standards we've set for them]]. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::What do you mean?Can I upload images without deleting them?{{unsigned|Gegou}}<br /> <br /> :::Have you read the image policy?--{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:52, 29 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> So, what do you think about these new images that I have uploaded? {{unsigned|Gegou }}<br /> <br /> <br /> :Better. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:21, 30 August 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Possible_inconsistencies_in_the_legendarium&diff=306731 Possible inconsistencies in the legendarium 2019-08-30T17:20:54Z

<p>Ederchil: they should, at all times, start with "maybe" or another similar word to denote that they're speculation</p> <hr /> <div>[[J.R.R. Tolkien]] paid a great deal of attention to detail in his [[Secondary world]] to preserve a realistic consistency.<br /> <br /> However his work has been admired, studied and analyzed by "[[Tolkienist]]s" over the years in various aspects and levels; unavoidably, some more or less obvious '''inconsistencies seem to have slipped the author's attention'''. Most are revealed after more than one reading of the book and possibly thorough study.<br /> <br /> Fans of Tolkien usually accept that in any work there are usually plot holes. In a larger, far more detailed and realistic book we expect fewer (if any) plot holes, when in reality there is a far greater chance because of its complexity.<br /> <br /> Any inconsistency can be blamed on the fictitious Tolkien who adapted ancient sources such as the Red Book or on the characters who wrote and compiled those sources. Tolkien himself mentioned in Appendix D that he might have made many errors on the calendar while "translating" the "ancient sources", a comment written as a fail-safe for any narrative mistakes the author might have made, and mentioned in Appendix F ("Of the Elves") that Frodo had erred in thinking the dialect of Sindarin spoken by the elves of Lórien was Silvan Elvish.<ref>{{FR|II6}}. A footnote directs the reader to the correction in the appendix.</ref><br /> <br /> Such explanations attributing the mistakes to the "translator Tolkien" or the "original sources" are easy and unenlightening. Therefore many fans prefer to explain those inconsistencies with some internal explanation. The explanations below are of this type. For example, at least some of the logical mistakes can be attributed to the characters themselves who said a contradicting phrase, since none of them is supposed to have the "omniscience" of the author. Contradictions of this type are grouped as "character mistakes". Others are grouped as "factual mistakes", of which mistakes in chronology are a subgroup.<br /> <br /> =Character mistakes=<br /> ==The Eldest==<br /> Possibly the most noticeable inconsistency in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' is that both [[Tom Bombadil]] and [[Treebeard]] are referred to as the [[eldest]] being in [[Middle-earth]]. Tom says that about himself,<ref>{{FR|I7}}, "Eldest, that's what I am.... Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn." </ref> and [[Elrond]] mentions that the Elves knew Tom as "oldest and fatherless".<ref name="CofE">{{FR|II2}}</ref> However, [[Gandalf]] tells [[Théoden]] that Treebeard is "the oldest of all living things",<ref name="Isengard">{{TT|III8}}</ref> and Celeborn addresses Treebeard as "Eldest".<ref>{{HM|RK}}, "[[Many Partings]]"</ref><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: Maybe Tom is not "alive" as Treebeard is<ref>Tom Shippey, ''The Road to Middle-earth: Revised and Expanded Edition'', p. 107</ref> (though he seems to be). On this subject, Gandalf, [[Saruman]], and [[Sauron]] have existed far longer than Treebeard, as they are [[Maiar]], but they haven't been alive (in a physical body) as long.<br /> <br /> ==Giving up a Ring of Power==<br /> Gandalf says, "'A Ring of Power looks after itself, Frodo. ''It'' may slip off treacherously, but its keeper never abandons it. At most he plays with the idea of handing it on to some one else's care&mdash;and that only at an early stage, when it first begins to grip. But as far as I know Bilbo alone in history has gone beyond playing, and really done it.'"<ref name="Shadow">{{FR|I2}}</ref> However, [[Narya|Gandalf's own ring]] was given to him freely by [[Círdan]].<ref name="AppThird">{{App|TA}}</ref> Also, the dwarves of [[Durin's Folk]] who held their Ring typically "surrendered" it when near death, and in particular [[Thrór]] gave it to his son [[Thráin II]],<ref name="AppADurin"/> as Gandalf says at the Council of Elrond.<ref name="CofE"/><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: Perhaps Gandalf meant only the rings that [[Sauron]] had had a hand in making, which might be the only ones that "grip". Gandalf's ring is one of the [[Three Rings|Three]], which Sauron didn't touch. Durin's Folk believed that they had received their Ring directly from the [[Elven-Smiths]], though Sauron did help to make it.<br /> <br /> ==Sam's spying==<br /> [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]] tells [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] that as a result of [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]]'s eavesdropping, he and [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] "know most of what Gandalf has told you about the [[The One Ring|Ring]]".<ref name=ACU>{{FR|I5}}</ref> Most of what Gandalf told Frodo was in one long conversation, at the end of which Gandalf caught Sam.<ref name="Shadow"/> This contradicts Merry's statement that after Sam was caught, he "seemed to regard himself as on parole, and dried up".<ref name=ACU/><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: Maybe Sam's information was what he learned before he was caught, though that's not what Merry says.<br /> <br /> ==A choice of dangers==<br /> [[Aragorn]] tells the hobbits, as they prepare to leave [[Bree]], "After [[Weathertop]] our journey will become more difficult, and we shall have to choose between various dangers."<ref name=Strider/> The ridges they have to climb after Weathertop may be more difficult than the [[Midgewater Marshes]], but they encounter no dangers on the route Aragorn chooses, and Aragorn doesn't warn the hobbits of any dangers, except the chance that the Nazgûl will find them as they cross the [[Last Bridge]].<ref name="Flight">{{FR|I12}}</ref><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: Aragorn does cite two other possible courses. One is going north through the [[Ettenmoors|Ettendales]] instead of crossing the [[Ford of Bruinen]], but in addition to the danger of [[trolls]], that route would take too long and the Company would run out of food. The other is finding the Ford without following the Road, but that's impossible.<ref>{{FR|I12}}, "'We cannot hope to find a path through these hills. Whatever danger may beset it, the Road is our only way to the Ford.'"</ref> Maybe although he describes these alternatives as impossible when he faces them, in Bree they only seemed to present the danger of taking too long or getting lost.<br /> <br /> ==Aragorn's knowledge==<br /> Aragorn tells the hobbits in Bree, "I know all the lands between [[the Shire]] and the [[Misty Mountains]], for I have wandered over them for many years."<ref name="Strider"/> But later, speaking of the Ettendales, he says, "That is troll-country, and little known to me," and "I do not know the way" to Rivendell by detouring through them.<ref name="Flight"/> The Ettendales or Ettenmoors are on a line between the Shire and the northern part of the Misty Mountains.<br /> ;Explanation:If we take Aragorn's line "wandered over them" literally, we can accept that Aragorn has also wandered over the Ettendales. Of course that doesn't necessarily means that Aragorn should know ''everything'' about those lands, or even know ''all'' ways (e.g., to Rivendell) through them. He does say that he knows those lands a "little".<br /> <br /> ==Building Barad-dûr==<br /> Elrond says at his council that the foundations of [[Barad-dûr]] were made with the One Ring,<ref>{{FR|II2}, "The Dark Tower was broken, but its foundations were not removed; for they were made with the power of the Ring, and while it remains they will endure.</ref> which is consistent with its destruction when the Ring is destroyed. However, according to the Tale of Years, Sauron began building Barad-dûr in about S.A. 1000 and forged the Ring in about S.A. 1600.<ref>https://www.quora.com/What-inconsistencies-if-any-appear-in-the-Hobbit-Lord-of-the-Rings-and-the-Silmarillion</ref><br /> ;Explanation: Maybe Sauron ordered his Orcs to begin mining for stone needed to build the tower in S.A. 1000, and then began building it once he forged the Ring in S.A. 1600. After all, a huge tower like Barad-dûr would take a lot of stone to build.<br /> <br /> ==Possession of the [[Nine Rings]]==<br /> In ''[[The Council of Elrond]]'' [[Gandalf]] says that the [[Nazgûl]] kept their Rings by saying "The Nine the Nazgûl keep"<ref name="CofE"/>. However in most other references, it is mentioned that Sauron had taken them.<ref>{{FR|I2}}, "the Nine [Sauron] has gathered to himself; the Seven also, or else they are destroyed."</ref><ref>{{FR|II7}}, "You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine."</ref> Furthermore, Frodo doesn't see any Rings on them on [[Weathertop]], and it is believed that if they did wear the Rings, they would have been fully [[Unseen|invisible]] (including their cloaks).<ref>http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q0-InvRiders</ref><br /> <br /> The line in the Council of Elrond represents Tolkien's earlier intention that the Nazgûl should still be wearing their Rings, but he later changed his mind and simply missed revising that sentence.<br /> <br /> ;Explanation: The phrase can be also interpreted as "The Nine keep the Nazgûl [in Sauron’s thralldom]"; or as the Nazgûl are Sauron's slaves, his owning the Rings may be equivalent to the Nazgûl's keeping them. <br /> :Or perhaps, Gandalf was mistaken. The Nazgûl were not well known by the Council nor were all of Sauron's personal actions, and it is possible that they assumed they kept the Rings when in reality they did not.<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Feeling the [[Mithril#The_Mithril_Coat|''mithril'' coat]]==<br /> The ''mithril'' coat that Bilbo gives Frodo is "almost as supple as linen",<ref name="Ring">{{FR|II3}}</ref> and Aragorn carries Frodo in Moria (after the orc chieftain spears Frodo) without noticing the coat.<ref>{{FR|II5}}</ref> However, when Bilbo slaps Frodo on the back after giving him the coat, he says, "Ow!... You are too hard now to slap!"<ref name="Ring"/><br /> ;Explanation: Perhaps Bilbo is joking.<br /> <br /> Aragorn would not likely notice the texture of Frodo's clothing while running from orcs, trolls, and a balrog; he would be focused on other things.<br /> <br /> ==Galadriel's mind-reading==<br /> Galadriel tells Frodo and Sam that she knows Sauron's thoughts that concern the Elves.<ref name="Mirror">{{FR|II7}}</ref> It seems strange that they don't ask her whether she has any information they might find useful and she doesn't offer them any. Also, she doesn't seem to have known about [[Saruman]]'s betrayal some nineteen years earlier, though the defection of a member of the [[White Council]] might be thought to concern the Elves. At least, she didn't warn Gandalf in the messages he got from Lórien after reading the [[Scroll of Isildur]], the year before he trustingly entered [[Orthanc]].<ref name="CofE"/> (Also, when Aragorn was serving in Gondor under the name [[Thorongil]], he "often warned [[Ecthelion II|Ecthelion]] not to put trust in Saruman".<ref>{{HM|AA}}</ref> It's strange that he knew not to trust Saruman but Gandalf didn't.)<br /> ;Explanation: Conceivably Galadriel gained the ability to read Sauron's mind sometime after the messages went to Gandalf.<br /> <br /> ==[[Galadriel]]'s role==<br /> Galadriel tells the Fellowship, "I will not give you counsel, saying do this, or do that. For not in doing or contriving, or in choosing between this course and another, can I avail; but only in knowing what was and is, and in part also what shall be."<ref>{{FR|I6}}</ref> Later she tells Frodo, "I do not counsel you one way or the other. I am not a counsellor."<ref name="Mirror"/> However, the rhyme she sends Aragorn advises a specific course: the [[Grey Company]] should come out of [[Rivendell]], and Aragorn should take the [[Paths of the Dead]].<ref>{{TT|III5}}</ref> Likewise [[Legolas]] and [[Gimli]] conclude that Galadriel sent the message to the Grey Company telling them to join Aragorn in [[Rohan]]; this seems to be "contriving" and "choosing between one course and another". Incidentally, it is odd that the Grey Company got this message without knowing who it was from.<ref>{{HM|RK}}, "[[The Passing of the Grey Company]]"</ref><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: One could imagine that someone else (Celeborn?) made the decisions and Galadriel only sent the messages; Legolas and Gimli may have erred in thinking she was the source. Alternatively, it is conceivable that Galadriel's words to the Fellowship were calculated to have a desired impact, even though at face value they seemed to be of no use. <br /> <br /> ==Tales of hobbits==<br /> Pippin tells [[Théoden]], "I have wandered in many lands, since I left my home, and never till now have I found people that knew any story concerning hobbits."<ref name="Isengard"/> But hobbits live in [[Bree]], [[Tom Bombadil]] knows many stories about hobbits, one would think the [[Rangers of the North|Rangers]] (who guard [[the Shire]] and Bree) and the Elves of Rivendell (where Bilbo has been living) would know some, and the Elves of Lórien have at least heard of hobbits.<ref>{{FR|II6}}, "We had not heard of&mdash;hobbits, of halflings, for many a long year...."</ref><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: Pippin has just woken up from a nap, after a lunch that included wine, and is talking to a king for the first time in his life; he may not be thinking clearly.<br /> <br /> ==Crossing Rohan inconspicuously==<br /> As they ride away from Isengard, Gandalf tells Merry that the Lidless Eye will be looking toward Rohan, so "He [Théoden] will ride from there [Helm's Deep] to Dunharrow by paths among the hills. From now on no more than two or three together are to go openly over the land, by day or night, when it can be avoided."<ref>{{TT|III11}}</ref> However, later that night, after Pippin looks into the ''palantír'' and Gandalf says they must move from the spot, Théoden says he will go in a group of twelve, and Gandalf agrees.<ref>{{TT|III11}}, "'I will keep Éomer and ten Riders,' said the king. 'They shall ride with me at early day. The rest may go with Aragorn and ride as soon as they have a mind.' 'As you will,' said Gandalf."</ref> Then when the trip to Helm's Deep starts, the number has increased to twenty-six, and Aragorn goes with Théoden.<ref>{{RK|V2}}, "Soon all were ready to depart: twenty-four horses, with Gimli behind Legolas, and Merry in front of Aragorn."</ref> The trip from Helm's Deep to Dunharrow has a group of five hundred.<ref>{{RK|V2}}, "A thousand spears had indeed already ridden away at night, but still there would be some five hundred more to go with the king."</ref> They do ride through the hills, as Gandalf had said. "Most of the time" they're in a group bigger than three.<ref>{{RK|V3}}, "Sometimes where the way was broader he [Merry] had ridden at the king's side, not noticing that many of the Riders smiled to see the two together: the hobbit on his little shaggy grey pony, and the Lord of Rohan on his great white horse. [...] But most of the time, especially on the last day, Merry had ridden by himself just behind the king, saying nothing, and trying to understand the slow sonorous speech of Rohan that he heard the men behind him using."</ref><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: Maybe there was some reason, not narrated, that Gandalf changed his mind about the need for small groups (and Théoden changed his about his companions). Or maybe for most of the journey, riding in big groups couldn't be avoided, though that would make the order pointless.<br /> <br /> ==The peril of deep arts==<br /> In connection with the ''palantír'' of Orthanc, Gandalf observes to Pippin, "Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves."<ref name="Palantir">{{TT|III11}}</ref> However, never in ''The Hobbit'' or ''The Lord of the Rings'' does he warn [[Thorin|Thorin]] or the hobbits against using elvish swords, which glow in the presence of orcs, or [[Daggers of Westernesse|daggers from the barrow]], which are especially effective against Ringwraiths. He returns the [[Phial of Galadriel]] to Frodo and [[Gifts of Galadriel|Galadriel's box of earth]] to Sam without any warnings. Also, there is no apparent danger in characters' using other products of elven arts (cloaks, ''[[hithlain]]'' ropes, ''[[lembas]]'').<br /> <br /> ;Explanation: Maybe the ''palantíri'' are "devices" in a sense in which the other things named are not. <br /> :Furthermore, it's possible that Gandalf was only attempting to discourage Pippin's curiosity, worrying that it could lead to another dangerous situation like that with the ''palantír''.<br /> ==The eyes in Orthanc==<br /> <br /> When Aragorn tells Gimli and Legolas that he's confronted Sauron in the ''palantír'', he says, "To know that I lived and walked the earth was a blow to his heart, I deem; for he knew it not till now. The eyes in Orthanc did not see through the armour of Théoden".<ref>{{RK|V2}}</ref> But Wormtongue knew that Aragorn claimed to be Isildur's heir, as Gandalf points out to Pippin.<ref name=Palantir/> Thus whether Wormtongue recognized Aragorn from Orthanc doesn't matter to Sauron's knowledge of Aragorn's existence. What Aragorn should have deduced was that either Wormtongue never told Saruman about him, or Saruman didn't reveal the knowledge, whether to Sauron through the ''palantír'' or to the Nazgûl who came to demand Saruman's supposed captive hobbit. (The latter is what Gandalf tells Pippin he fears.)<br /> <br /> ==[[Mouth of Sauron]] and "Sauron the Great"==<br /> [[Aragorn]] mentions that the name "[[Sauron]]" (meaning "Abominable") is the name used by his enemies, and Sauron himself does not permit it to be pronounced.<ref>{{TT|III1}}</ref> Therefore it would be problematic, if not logically impossible, for the messenger to Dáin to refer to his master as "the Lord Sauron the Great", as Aragorn had heard at the [[Council of Elrond]],<ref>{{FR|II2}}</ref> and for a servant of Sauron to say, "I am the Mouth of Sauron".<ref>{{RK|V10}}</ref><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: It could be that Aragorn was mistaken, perhaps thinking of the time before Sauron had declared himself. Another possibility is that the "Mouth" used a different name or title, perhaps in the Black Speech, and Frodo or the translator Tolkien "translated" it as Sauron to clarify it for readers. A similar possibility is that despite Aragorn's blanket statement, Sauron sometimes allowed his servants to use the name for such purposes as communicating with others who used it. As many of his enemies only knew his "true" name as Sauron, it would also allow him to keep his true names and aliases hidden from them, as well as allow them to immediately recognize whom his servants were referring to.<br /> <br /> =Factual mistakes=<br /> ==[[Doors of Durin]]==<br /> The name ''[[Moria]]'' means "Black Chasm" and was a derogatory description of the place which the [[Dwarves]] did not like much; it was given after [[Durin's Bane]] took over the city and it was overrun by [[Orcs]]. It is therefore a paradox why that name appears on the [[Doors of Durin]] (''Ennyn Durin Aran Moria''), made in the [[Second Age]], and with the consent of the Dwarves.<br /> <br /> ;Explanation: An "external" explanation is that since the translated [[Norse]] names [[Durin (disambiguation)|Durin]] and [[Narvi]] are seen in the inscription, ''Moria'' may also be a "translated" name.<br /> <br /> ==[[Eagles]]==<br /> One of the best-known alleged plot holes is why the Eagles came to carry Frodo and Sam back from [[Mount Doom]] but did not help them to fly [[the One Ring]] there, or at least help them at other points in their journey such as the crossing of the Misty Mountains. It is particularly hard to understand why this idea was not proposed in the [[Council of Elrond]].<br /> ;Explanation: This question is discussed in detail in [[Eagles#Flying_the_Ring_to_Mount_Doom|the article on the Eagles]], which gives several explanations.<br /> <br /> In general the explanations for not flying the Ring to Mount Doom are better than those for the Fellowship's not at least trying to have the Eagles fly them across the Misty Mountains.<br /> <br /> ==Distances==<br /> The distances of the Dwarves' travel to [[Rivendell]] in ''[[The Hobbit]]'' seem to have different proportions than those in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. Tolkien tried to reconcile the ''Hobbit'' description with the scale of the ''LotR'' map but couldn't find an appropriate solution.<ref>{{HM|RS}} p. 204</ref><br /> <br /> While Frodo and his companions needed 28 days from [[Hobbiton]] to [[Rivendell]] (10.7 miles/day)<ref name="atlas">[[Karen Wynn Fonstad]], ''[[The Atlas of Middle-earth]]''</ref>, [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] calculated that Bilbo and [[Thorin and Company]] needed 38 days (17.5 miles/day)<ref name="atlas"/>. [[Andreas Möhn|Andreas Moehn]] goes further and supposes that Thorin and Co. wanted two weeks from the [[Trollshaws]] till Rivendell (a distance which [[Glorfindel]] covered in two days), resulting in c. 48 days total.<ref name="lalaith">http://lalaith.vpsurf.de/Tolkien/Durin%27s_Day.html</ref>.<br /> ;Explanation: The distances and days are not described in the narrative and can be measured only by references such as the moon phases and other fan calculations; therefore there can be a margin of miscalculation. <br /> :In general, perhaps the Dwarves are by nature slower travelers than Men and/or Hobbits. In ''[[The Departure of Boromir]]'' it is seen that [[Gimli]] had a problem keeping pace with Aragorn and Legolas.<br /> <br /> ==Beater and Biter==<br /> The swords [[Glamdring]] and its "mate" [[Orcrist]] are said to have belonged to King [[Turgon]] of the [[First Age]]. They never appeared much in battle (Turgon fought only in the [[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]) and they were witnessed only by the Orcs of Beleriand. However, in the [[Third Age]] the swords are found in a [[Troll]] hoard in [[Eriador]], and the [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains]] recognize them by their names.<br /> <br /> The Orcs don't seem to react similarly in the sight of Glamdring in ''LotR'', nor do they seem to recognize [[Narsil]]/[[Andúril]], which is much more "recent".<br /> <br /> ;Explanation: There can be several theories and explanations of how the swords and even their reputations reach Eriador. However, the narrative of ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' doesn't justify their significance to the extent of being remembered and recognized by the Goblins of the Third Age, even by tradition.<br /> <br /> ==The elf-king's favorite gems==<br /> The narration of ''The Hobbit'' says the [[Thranduil|elf-king]]'s favorite gems are "white."<ref>{{H|8}}, "If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems...."</ref> However, after the [[Battle of Five Armies]], the narration says, "To the Elven-king he <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Bard]]<nowiki>]</nowiki> sent the emeralds of [[Girion]], such gems as he most loved...."<ref>{{H|18}}</ref><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: The sentence is somewhat ambiguous: "he" could refer to Bard or Girion instead of the elf-king. However, the elf-king's preference in gems, not the others', would be relevant to Bard's choice of what to give him.<br /> <br /> ==Thráin and Thorin's settling in the [[Blue Mountains]]==<br /> [[File:Stephen Raw - Middle-earth map (1 of 4).png|250px|thumb|A map of north-west Middle-earth]]<br /> After [[Thráin|Thráin II]] and his followers returned to [[Dunland]] following the [[Battle of Azanulbizar]] in {{TA|2799}},<br /> {{Blockquote|they removed and wandered in [[Eriador]], until at last they made a home in exile in the east of the [[Ered Luin]] beyond the [[Lune]].<ref name="AppADurin">{{App|Durin}}</ref>}}<br /> <br /> From the point of view of Eriador and the Shire, "beyond the Lune" is north of it.<br /> <br /> However, the "Tale of Years" ([[Appendix B]]) states,<br /> {{Blockquote|Thráin and his son Thorin wander westwards. They settle in the South of [[Ered Luin]] beyond [[the Shire]] ({{TA|2802|n}})<ref name="AppThird"/>}}<br /> <br /> It is difficult to reconcile the descriptions "beyond the Lune" and "in the south of the Ered Luin."<br /> <br /> Other mentions of the Dwarves' homes in the Ered Luin are consistent with both possibilities. "Dwarves dwelt in the east side of the Blue Mountains, especially in those parts south of the [[Gulf of Lune]], where they have mines that are still in use."<ref name="AppEriador"/> "Especially in those parts south of the Gulf of Lune" implies that a smaller number of Dwarves lived north of the Gulf, as shown in two other quotations. In a parenthetical comment made in "Of Dwarves and Men" in ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', Tolkien indicated that beyond the inflow of the [[Little Lune]] was 'Dwarf territory'.<ref>{{PM|Dwarves}}, p. 313</ref> Likewise in Appendix A: [[Arvedui]], the last king of [[Arthedain]], "hid in the tunnels of the old dwarf-mines near the far end of the Mountains".<ref name="AppEriador">{{App|Eriador}}</ref><br /> <br /> ==Westron and English==<br /> In a few places, Tolkien might be thought to have forgotten that the English, including Old English, in ''The Lord of the Rings'' is supposed to be translated from [[Westron]] and related languages. Some of these are easily explained. The most difficult is the comment, "This was ''Orthanc'', the citadel of Saruman, the name of which had (by design or chance) a twofold meaning; for in the Elvish speech ''orthanc'' signifies Mount Fang, but in the language of the Mark of old ''the Cunning Mind''."<ref>{{TT|III8}}</ref> However, ''orthanc'' means "cunning" not in [[Rohirric]] but in Old English, which Tolkien used to translate Rohirric.<br /> ;Explanation: The unattested name for ''Orthanc'' in Rohirric could also mean "cunning mind".<br /> <br /> ==Chronology==<br /> <br /> ===When Bilbo departed===<br /> In the chapter ''[[Roast Mutton]]'', [[Thorin and Company]] depart from the ''[[Green Dragon]]'' "one fine morning just before May." In the later written and published "[[The Quest of Erebor]]", part of "[[Unfinished Tales]]", the author established that the day of departure was [[27 April]].<ref>{{UT|Quest}}</ref> However, the chapter ''[[Flies and Spiders]]'' refers to what has happened "since they started their journey that May morning long ago."<br /> <br /> ;Explanation: The fifth month of the [[Shire Calendar]], Thrimidge, falls between 22 April to 21 May. By the human calendar, the journey would have started just before May; but by the hobbit calendar, the journey started during Thrimidge. The second reference to May could have been a "translation error", where "Thrimidge" was translated as "May" regardless of the actual date.<br /> <br /> ===[[White Council]] during the [[Watchful Peace]]===<br /> According to [[Appendix A]], "The Stewards", during the [[Watchful Peace]] "''Sauron withdrew before the power of the White Council and the Ringwraiths remained hidden in Morgul Vale''". However the Watchful Peace ended in {{TA|2460}}, three years before the White Council was formed. Thus according to [[Robert Foster]], the reference to the Council is "incorrect".<ref>[[Robert Foster]] (2001) ''[[The Complete Guide to Middle-earth|The Complete Guide to Middle-Earth: From The Hobbit through The Lord of the Rings and Beyond]]''. Random House Digital, [http://books.google.com/books?id=GNGJvGi849UC&pg=PA538 p. 538].</ref><br /> ;Explanation: Foster suggests that the reference to the "White Council" is rather to "the [[Wise]]" in general.<br /> <br /> ===Moon phases===<br /> Tolkien was particularly careful about the phases of the [[Moon]] in the ''LotR''. Yet some mistakes did elude him. See for example [[13 January|January 13]], [[16 January|January 16]], [[22 February|February 22]], [[22 September|September 22]]. <br /> <br /> In general, it is possible that Tolkien consulted a modern almanac to model the moon phases, and also possible that he confused the meanings of "New Moon": the astronomical (the moment when the moon is darkest) and the colloquial (appearance of the new crescent moon).<ref>http://shire-reckoning.com/moon.html</ref><br /> <br /> Another mistake appears in ''The Hobbit'': [[Bard|Bard I]] killed [[Smaug]] "at the rising of the moon"<ref>{{H|15}}</ref> when "the moon rose above the eastern shore and silvered his [Smaug's] great wings... the waxing moon rose higher and higher". Also the [[thrush]] tells Bard, "Wait! Wait!... The Moon is rising." <ref>{{H|14}}</ref> However, according to astronomy a waxing moon rises only in the morning, after the sun. We can be certain the moon was waxing because this occurs the day after [[Durin's Day]], which is the first day in the last month of autumn that the new moon is visible together with the sun.<ref name="lalaith"/><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: One might imagine that Bard needed to wait for the moon to fall below a cloudbank and that the tradition is corrupt.<ref name="lalaith"/><br /> <br /> ===[[Shadow over Hollin]]===<br /> While the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] traverses [[Hollin]], they see and feel a flying shadow over them.<ref name="Ring"/> Since no other such phenomena occur, when the [[Fell Beast]]s are introduced, the reader makes such a connection. However later we learn that Sauron did not permit the Nazgûl to traverse west of the [[Anduin]] after their accident at [[Bruinen]].<br /> <br /> ;Explanation: Possibly it was a "lost" or "disobeying" Nazgûl who despite orders found himself prematurely west of the Anduin, or simply something wholly unexplained and unrelated to the Fell Beasts. Perhaps it was some feeling of foreboding as they would eventually have to go to Moria. It could also be a sort of literal metaphor of Sauron observing them, as often throughout the books Sauron's gaze is compared to a "heavy shadow" bearing down on what it sees.<br /> <br /> ===Nights in Lórien===<br /> The surviving members of the Company spend their first night in Lórien in a "flet" in a tree. On their second night, "they rested and slept without fear on the ground".<ref >{{FR|II6}}</ref> On their third night, they sleep on the ground again, in a pavilion in [[Caras Galadon]]. "For a little while the travellers talked of their night before in the tree-tops, and of their day's journey...." And Aragorn says, "But tonight I shall sleep without fear for the first time since I left Rivendell."<ref name="Mirror"/> The night in the tree-tops was not the night before, and Aragorn did sleep without fear on the previous night, so the second night appears to be forgotten.<br /> <br /> ;Explanation: In Lórien at least some members of the fellowship lose track of the flow of time. Shortly after Aragorn's remark, the narration says, "They remained some days in Lothlórien, so far as they could tell or remember." Also, after leaving Lórien, Sam feels sure they had not spent a whole month there, despite the evidence of the phase of the moon, and Frodo thinks while in Lórien they were in the past and mentions that he doesn't remember seeing the moon while there. However, Legolas assures him that only their perception of time was changed, and Aragorn points out that the time had indeed been a month.<ref>{{FR|II9}}</ref> Aragorn's forgetting his night without fear could be an effect of this changed sense of time. The phrase in the narration "the night before in the tree-tops" is harder to explain within the story, as the narration does include the intervening night, but the inconspicuous contradiction might be deliberate foreshadowing of what the Company will experience.<br /> <br /> ===Éomer and Éowyn after Aragorn's coronation===<br /> In the chapter ''[[The Steward and the King]]'', it is stated: "So the glad days passed; and on the eighth day of May the Riders of Rohan made ready, and rode off by the North-way, and with them went the sons of Elrond. All the road was lined with people to do them honour and praise them, from the Gate of the City to the walls of the Pelennor."<ref name="SaK">{{RK|VI5}}</ref> However, in ''[[Appendix B]]'' of some editions of the novel<ref>http://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-1958.html</ref> there is the entry: "May 8 (of {{TA|3019|n}}) Éomer and Éowyn depart '''from''' Rohan with the sons of Elrond".<ref name="AppB4">{{App|Chief}}</ref> (Emphasis added.)<br /> <br /> ===The sapling's discovery===<br /> In the text of ''[[The Return of the King]]'' it is stated: "And Aragorn planted the new tree in the court by the fountain, and swiftly and gladly it began to grow; and when the month of June entered in it was laden with blossom".<ref name="SaK"/> The wording of this sentence suggests that Aragorn planted the sapling ''before'' June began. However, in ''Appendix B'' there is the entry: "June 25 (of {{TA|3019|n}}) King Elessar finds the sapling of the White Tree",<ref name="AppB4"/> in which case it could not have blossomed until late in the month.<br /> <br /> ===Walda's death===<br /> King [[Walda]]'s death date is recorded in [[Appendix A]] as [[Third Age 2851]] but in [[Appendix B]] as [[Third Age 2861]].<br /> <br /> =Corrected mistakes=<br /> Several mistakes were simply remnants of earlier concepts of Tolkien, which later escaped his attention when revising the book. Some of them were corrected in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th Anniversary Edition]].<br /> <br /> ===Bridle and headstall===<br /> The first edition referred to the "bridle and bit" of [[Glorfindel]]'s horse, [[Asfaloth]].<ref name="Flight"/> [[Rhona Beare]] wrote to Tolkien asking how that was possible when elves don't use bridles. Tolkien replied in [[Letter 211]] that he'd written "bridle and bit" before thinking about how elves ride, and he changed it to "headstall" in the second edition. However, a later mention of Asfaloth's bridle remained in the chapter.<ref>"His hand left the bridle and gripped the hilt of his sword, and with a red flash he drew it."</ref><br /> <br /> ===Durin's Day===<br /> The original text of ''The Hobbit'' described [[Durin's Day]] as occurring on "the first day of the last moon of autumn",<ref>{{H|3}}</ref> the "first moon of autumn",<ref>{{H|4}}</ref> and "the last week of autumn".<ref>{{H|11}}</ref> In the 1995 edition the mention in Chapter 4 was revised to place the day at the end of autumn, in line with the other two mentions.<ref>Chester N. Scoville, "''The Hobbit''" in ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]'' (2007), Michael D.C. Drout, ed., Taylor and Francis, p. 279</ref><br /> <br /> ===Bandobras' parentage===<br /> The ''[[The Lord of the Rings Prologue|Prologue]]'' mentions that [[Bandobras Took]] was the son (not grandson) of [[Isengrim Took II]]. This has been corrected in the 50th Anniversary edition.<br /> <br /> ===Sam's birth===<br /> In the second edition of ''LotR'', [[Samwise Gamgee]]'s year of birth was added to ''[[Appendix B|The Tale of Years]]'' as [[Third Age 2963]]. This contradicts both a later entry in ''The Tale of Years'' and the [[Appendix C]] given as [[Third Age 2980]].<ref>[[Wayne G. Hammond]], [[Christina Scull]], ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]]'', page 716</ref><br /> <br /> ===Gandalf's letter===<br /> The letter Gandalf leaves for Frodo at the ''[[Prancing Pony]]'' is dated "[[Midyear's Day]], Shire Year, 1418."<ref name="Strider">{{FR|I10}}</ref> However, in editions published during Tolkien's lifetime, Appendix B says that on June 29, "Gandalf meets [[Radagast]]." Then Gandalf says he left [[Bree]] at dawn of the following day,<ref name="CofE"/> which would be June 30, two days before Midyear's Day (as 1 [[Lithe]] comes between).<br /> ;Explanation: Perhaps Gandalf, who was in a hurry and had been traveling for days, made the mistake. However, the entry in Appendix B for June 29, 3018, has been deleted from the 50th Anniversary Edition.<br /> <br /> ===[[Gimli]]'s axe===<br /> Upon arrival in [[Edoras]], Gimli mentions his axe has touched nothing but firewood since they left Moria. Yet he also claims he and [[Legolas]] killed several Orcs at [[Amon Hen]]. <br /> ;Explanation: This discrepancy was noted by [[Wayne G. Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull]] in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]]'', where they explained why they left it unchanged in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th anniversary edition]]. Amon Hen was a week before the Battle of the Hornburg; even for a stout Dwarven warrior, lamenting not killing an Orc for that short period would make him look too bloodthirsty.<br /> <br /> ===Knowledge of the ''Palantíri''===<br /> After Gandalf learns that the crystal ball he has recovered is the ''[[palantír]]'' of [[Orthanc]], he tells [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] the [[White Council]] didn't know any of the ''palantíri'' (presumably those of [[Gondor]]) survived disaster in Gondor (presumably the [[Kin-strife]]).<ref>{{TT|III11}}, "It was not known to us that any of the ''palantíri'' had escaped the ruin of Gondor."</ref> However, after [[Denethor]] reveals his ''palantír'', Gandalf says in earlier editions, "Though the Stewards deemed that it was a secret kept only by themselves, long have I known that here in the White Tower, as at Orthanc, one of the Seven Stones was preserved."<ref>{{HM|RK}}, "[[The Pyre of Denethor]]"</ref><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: Gandalf could have learned about the two ''palantíri'' by himself, after the last time the White Council met (66 years earlier), or he was concealing his knowledge so as to keep secret his source for this information.<br /> <br /> :However, in the Fiftieth Anniversary Edition, the sentence was revised to read, "Though the Stewards deemed that it was a secret kept only by themselves, '''long ago I guessed''' that here in the White Tower, one at least of the Seven Seeing Stones was preserved." (Emphasis added.)<br /> <br /> ===Addition of the Westmarch (and Buckland) to the Shire===<br /> In early editions, the "Prologue" to ''The Lord of the Rings'' contained the sentence "Outside the [[Farthing]]s were the East and West Marches: the [[Buckland]] and the [[Westmarch]] added to the Shire in {{SR|1462}}."<ref name="OldPrologue">{{FR|Prologue}}</ref> That had two inconsistencies with other parts of the text. First, the "Tale of Years" dates the event to {{SR|1452}}.<ref name="AppLater">{{App|Later}}</ref> Second, various points indicate that Buckland was part of the Shire. The clearest may be Merry's comment to the other hobbits, when they have gone through the tunnel under the [[High Hay]] from Buckland into the [[Old Forest]], that they have left the Shire.<ref>{{FR|I6}}, "'There!' said Merry. 'You have left the Shire, and are now outside, and on the edge of the Old Forest.'"</ref><br /> <br /> ;Explanation: In the 50th Anniversary Edition, the sentence was changed to "Outside the Farthings were the East and West Marches: the Buckland; and the Westmarch added to the Shire in S.R. 1452." In addition to the correction of the date, the semicolon after "Buckland" indicates that Buckland was not added to the Shire after the War of the Ring, making the sentence consistent with the idea that it was already part of the Shire.<ref name="NewPrologue">{{FR|Prologue|50}}</ref><br /> <br /> ===Mirror of Galadriel===<br /> In editions prior to the 50th Anniversary Edition, the [[Appendix B|Tale of Years]] mentions that Frodo and Sam looked into the [[Mirror of Galadriel]] on [[14 February]]. However it is clear from the narrative that this occurred ''one day'' before departure on [[16 February]], not ''two''. [[Wayne G. Hammond|Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull|Scull]] decided to fix the Tale of Years so that the Mirror of Galadriel sequence happened on 15 February.<br /> {{References}}<br /> [[Category:Debates]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=306699 User talk:Ederchil 2019-08-29T22:52:51Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{usertalk}}<br /> <br /> {| align="right"<br /> | __TOC__<br /> |}<br /> <center><br /> =Archive=<br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br /> = 2017 =<br /> </center><br /> <br /> == Discussion ==<br /> <br /> Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br /> <br /> == Discussions ==<br /> Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaint and Discussions ==<br /> <br /> Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> == About my edit ==<br /> <br /> Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br /> <br /> Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> ::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Battle under the Trees ==<br /> <br /> First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br /> I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br /> <br /> :I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br /> <br /> == What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br /> <br /> No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br /> <br /> As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Limpe ==<br /> <br /> Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br /> <br /> :It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == About my talk page ==<br /> <br /> Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Do not use "Heil". Ever. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::The way I’m using it is a joke tho (it’s a parody)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::That is not a joking matter. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:32, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::::Whatever--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Tolkien Ancestry ==<br /> <br /> Hi!<br /> <br /> I would like to ask if it is possible to update all entries concerning the Tolkien Family history. My research in the Tolkien genealogy has changed a lot in this matter. See for instance here:<br /> <br /> http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/2017/05/john-benjamin-tolkien-1753-1819-summary.html<br /> <br /> Now we are 100% sure that first two Tolkiens in London were brothers, sons of Christian and Anna Euphrosina Tolkien from Petershagen in Gdańsk (German Danzig). The Professor's great-great-grandfather was born in June 1752 and was baptized in St Salvator Lutheran church in Gdańsk. His brother emmigrated in 1766 first to Amsterdam, then in 1770 to London. His younger brother, Johann Benjamin joined him in ca. 1772. Both brothers married the English girls and Daniel became furrie and John Benjamin a clock and watch maker.<br /> <br /> Their father was born in Kreuzburg, East Prussia in 1706. We know also the other generations:<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family from Prussia <br /> (15th-17th c.)|Michel Tolkien (b. ca. 1620, Globuhnen by Kreuzburg, Prussia)|Christianus Tolkien <br /> (1663-1746, Kreuzburg, Kingdom of Prussia)|Christian Tolkien (b. 1706 in Kreuzburg, d. 1791 in Gdańsk, Polish Prussia)= Anna Euphrosina Tolkien, née Bergholtz (1719-1792)|Johann (John) Benjamin Tolkien (b. 1752 in Gdańsk, d. 1819 in London)|George Tolkien (1784-1840)<br /> |John Benjamin Tolkien(1807-1896)|Arthur Reuel Tolkien(1857-1896)|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien(1892-1973)<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family name belongs to a big Prussian family of names with the ending -in, -yn, -ien, -iehn and comes from Tolk-īn 'a descendant of Tolk'. Tolk is a Prussian name meaning 'translator, negotiator'<br /> <br /> The Tolkiens in the 16th-18th centuries lives in East Prussia. You will not find the Tolkiens in Saxony, because it is a Prussian family of medieval roots in the Teutonic State. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :The current text is what Tolkien himself believed to be the origin of his family and family name. He mentioned it multiple times - [[Letter 165]] and [[Letter 324]], for example. He explicitly dismisses the association with Tolk- ("interpreter", "spokesman") in [[Letter 349]]. Even if that blog were true - I'm not saying it isn't - outright removing the current text and replacing it with things that contradict it is not the way to go. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I am sorry. I am not a Wikipedist, I have problems with proper editing in the places like this. I undestrand, Ederchil your position. The clue is that Professor Tolkien couldn't know things we know today. My research is known to the Tolkien family today, it is already accepted by the Tolkien Society (see their website) and is included in the newest "The J.R.R. Tolkien. Companion and Guide". I spent last year in the archives to find the truth about the Tolkien genealogy. Only you know how to enter the information from me into your Tolkien Gateway. Plese, think about including the information about the roots in Gdańsk and East Prussia. And about the alternative etymology of the Tolkien family name. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :I have no problems with including it, as long as it is properly sourced and the current is not removed. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Can you help me with it, Ederchil? As a source you can cite Ch. Scull, W. G. Hammond, "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide" (2017), G 828, 1298. When they publish my article in the "Tolkien Studies" there will be another source for the Tolkien Gateway (I will inform you about the publication). Or you can quote the Tolkien Society website: https://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/biography/<br /> <br /> "The name “Tolkien” (pron.: Tol-keen; equal stress on both syllables) was believed by the family (including Tolkien himself) to be of German origin; Toll-kühn: foolishly brave, or stupidly clever—hence the pseudonym “Oxymore” which he occasionally used; however, this quite probably was a German rationalisation of an originally Baltic Tolkyn, or Tolkīn. In any case, his great-great grandfather John (Johann) Benjamin Tolkien came to Britain with his brother Daniel from Gdańsk in about 1772 and rapidly became thoroughly Anglicised."<br /> <br /> I am very weak as a Wikipedist. I don't understand the language of the coding in here. Please, help me.<br /> <br /> = 2018 =<br /> == Lots of time to learn, my boy ==<br /> <br /> It is clear you bring your own view, only, to this Wiki.<br /> <br /> A moderator's task is to intervene when new users first stray from your narrow course.<br /> <br /> Not after much effort.<br /> <br /> This is clearly habitual.<br /> <br /> Now I see why so many Wiki's exist on this topic.<br /> <br /> Some even allow flexibility and detail.<br /> <br /> You are young and I hope you have the time to really understand Tolkien's great Work.<br /> <br /> There seems to be a lot of Noldor in your ATTITUDE.<br /> <br /> But it's YOUR Wiki, so...<br /> <br /> [[User:Fudoki|Fudoki]] 21:00, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :So much for the skin of Ironfoot. Wait, was the skin of Ironfoot ever mentioned? Guess not. Silly me.<br /> :I admire that you want to help out. But putting in effort does not automatically mean it's a well-written summary of the life of Fingon. It was practically unsalvageable, a jumbled collection of clauses.<br /> :I'm not young by most standards, and I'm more Dwarf than Noldo. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:16, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == "Other" label ==<br /> <br /> You wrote "again, this is not what Other is for" in the Elured and Elurin articles... So I repeat what I asked in the Talk:Elwing page: Given the fact that Eluréd, Elurín and Elwing present some difficulties in being classified in terms of elf/man/half-elf, why not use a neutral label? Despite the name "other", the label is an empty one, the character in question is not put in some list of "strange races" or nothing like that. See [[Falathar]] and companions: they were elves or men, but we don't know exactly what they are, so the "other" label was applied in their articles. If you insist this is wrong, I think a third way should be find, because the "elf" label doesn't seem right to me: Dior was mortal, your sons couldn't be elves. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 19:31, 1 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Those two are three quarters Elf. They're more Elvish than Half-elves. And even Half-elves are still identified by their Elvenness (they're not called Half-men) so giving them a undetermined elf infobox is still better than lumping them with "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: You explore a very subjective line of argumentation, percentage of elvish blood and the word "half-elf"... I don't see why this so personal thinking would be better, instead of a neutral label - "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox" is another subjective vision of yours, nothing in the box says that - or even a “sinda” label, for example... But whatever, I think you had a pet peeve with my editions since the beginning, reverting them and writing hardly nothing, and now have found a new way to continue disagreeing - particularly because this argumentation of yours is a new one, you insisted earlier on restoring the "half-elf" label, and, indeed, you replaced Elurín in the Category:Half-Elves and it still remain so... [[User:Haran|Haran]] 21:07, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Unnecessary block? ==<br /> <br /> What did you block [[User:JaquelineKitchen]] for? She (I'm assuming it is "she") had not done anything wrong...--[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 14:27, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a spambot. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Okay, I understand now. Thanks for expalaining. --[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 13:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB ==<br /> <br /> Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB. Ik heb valide informative toegevoegd. Vervolgens wordt dit verwijderd. Daar heb ik geen zin in. Dan maar niet. {{unsigned|PeterNC}}<br /> <br /> :Er zijn zoveel fans wereldwijd dat we toch enige grenzen moeten stellen. Mensen die boeken of artikelen gepubliceerd hebben krijgen voorrang. <br /> :Ik heb nog geprobeerd om het te herschrijven, maar er was bar weinig aan te doen. Sommige delen waren woord voor woord (en dode link voor dode link) overgenomen van [[Haradrim (Tolkien Society)]] en andere waren niet meer dan reclame. Dat het valide is betekent niet dat wij het in de aangeboden vorm maar moeten gebruiken. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == parabombing what?! ==<br /> <br /> But what the matter with my edits??? They are not vandalism, this is a fact that spiders don't have stingers, if Shelob was born in the First Age, she's obviously several millenia old, and square kilometer converting is also useful for somebody not mastering well Anglo-Saxon metric system. Not every statement needs sourcing, it would be nonsense. [[Special:Contributions/193.54.167.180|193.54.167.180]] 18:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The age needs to be a number. Even if an approximation, it needs to be written out in numbers with the source in a ref and any explanation in a note. <br /> :Is there any source spiders don't have stingers in Middle-earth?<br /> :It's not the "Anglo-Saxon metric system". Or the Imperial system, as it's actually mean (it's not metric). The mentioned measures are the translation convention Tolkien used for the [[Lár]]/league and the [[Ranga]]/yard, and presumably other units of measurement too. A mile in the real world is a third of a league, and that's usually used in analysis of scale, but as the Númenorean reckoning was decimal, one could question whether they had a "mile" equivalent, or if they used tenths of leagues or fifths or something. But miles were the terms Tolkien used. Not kilometers. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure if the term "square mile" is even used. I've removed the comparison of real world countries because this minute difference.<br /> :Parabombing is the wiki practice of plonking a sentence within parentheses in the middle of a paragraph, without regard for what it does for the sentence. If you cannot work it into the section in a natural, readable way, don't add it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:29, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> = 2019 =<br /> ==Spammer Problem and Trying to Fix It==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, I've been trying to restore the infobox on the [[Wizards]] article after [[Special:Contributions/66.203.18.47|66.203.18.47]] spammed it and then restored it to normal, but I can't find the template. Also, I've seen that this user has been consistently spamming and restoring articles, and that is definitely a rotten thing to do. Can you help me? Thank you! -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Also, he completely messed up the entire article, and I've been trying to revert his edits. It's not working, though. -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Never mind, I fixed it, but I'm still concerned about this user. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> :Done. An easy way to fix it is just go to the page's history and edit and save the last version from before the vandalism. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:10, 24 January 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Bedankt voor de hulp(Please excuse my unprofessional Dutch)! I hope I'm not being too much of a pest; that's what happens when a 14-year-old signs up on a Tolkien wiki. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> == Article Image Question ==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, can you look [[Talk:Meriadoc Brandybuck|here]] really quickly and give your opinion on it? Thanks! —{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 00:20, 19 Feb 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Discrepancies on Arvegil ==<br /> <br /> So just how do you propose to acknowledge that the published text of TLotR leaves no room for the birth year or lifespan attributed to Arvegil by "The Heirs of Elendil" to be correct?...letting the latter stand uncontradicted is just unconscionable.[[Special:Contributions/12.144.5.2|12.144.5.2]] 15:57, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :We generally have "Other versions of the Legendarium" as a section header for any out-of-universe information. But that wasn't the only issue. Sources need to be in-line with [[:Category:Citation templates|specific citation templates]], and it should just be a mention of the discrepancy, without a conclusion about its canonicity.<br /> :And you should never start anything with "It should be noted". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hi, I just rewrite the edit, so it fixes the TG style and article structure. I recommend Mr.12.144.5.2 to read TG policy on canonicity before saying what's canon. I leave to the admins to let be my edit or not, as I don't have those book editions, so I can't check them or cite them properly. It should be rewrite anyways, I know my English is not the best, but it took me a while to understand the issue with a whole paragraph in just one sentence. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::That did not address any of the style issues. It was the same text with just a header, no markup or style changes. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::I did the markup and removed some ideas. May the anonymous editor rewrite it if he is so interested, I won't.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:35, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::Removed [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arvegil&curid=1320&diff=306264&oldid=306218 the lot]. The Aragorn comparison wasn't in the original source anyway. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==User name==<br /> Hi, would it be possible to change my username, please? I first wanted to edit a few things, became addicted to edition and now it feels weird seeing my name everywhere. If it's not possible or too difficult, it doesn't matter, I'll keep editing anyways. Thank you very much.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:41, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> :It should be possible, but I'm not sure how. Ask [[User:Mith|Mith]].--{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaiment ==<br /> <br /> Why did you delete all of my editings? Do you have any problem with me? Do you have any idea how much time it took me to upload these images? {{unsigned|Gegou}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I have no issue with you, don't worry. I also didn't delete all your additions; I've kept the [[Talion]] article. As for the images, they did not meet the [[Tolkien Gateway:Image policy|standards we've set for them]]. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::What do you mean?Can I upload images without deleting them?{{unsigned|Gegou}}<br /> <br /> :::Have you read the image policy?--{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:52, 29 August 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=306689 User talk:Ederchil 2019-08-29T14:57:12Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{usertalk}}<br /> <br /> {| align="right"<br /> | __TOC__<br /> |}<br /> <center><br /> =Archive=<br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br /> = 2017 =<br /> </center><br /> <br /> == Discussion ==<br /> <br /> Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br /> <br /> == Discussions ==<br /> Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaint and Discussions ==<br /> <br /> Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> == About my edit ==<br /> <br /> Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br /> <br /> Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> ::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Battle under the Trees ==<br /> <br /> First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br /> I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br /> <br /> :I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br /> <br /> == What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br /> <br /> No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br /> <br /> As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Limpe ==<br /> <br /> Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br /> <br /> :It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == About my talk page ==<br /> <br /> Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Do not use "Heil". Ever. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::The way I’m using it is a joke tho (it’s a parody)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::That is not a joking matter. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:32, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::::Whatever--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Tolkien Ancestry ==<br /> <br /> Hi!<br /> <br /> I would like to ask if it is possible to update all entries concerning the Tolkien Family history. My research in the Tolkien genealogy has changed a lot in this matter. See for instance here:<br /> <br /> http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/2017/05/john-benjamin-tolkien-1753-1819-summary.html<br /> <br /> Now we are 100% sure that first two Tolkiens in London were brothers, sons of Christian and Anna Euphrosina Tolkien from Petershagen in Gdańsk (German Danzig). The Professor's great-great-grandfather was born in June 1752 and was baptized in St Salvator Lutheran church in Gdańsk. His brother emmigrated in 1766 first to Amsterdam, then in 1770 to London. His younger brother, Johann Benjamin joined him in ca. 1772. Both brothers married the English girls and Daniel became furrie and John Benjamin a clock and watch maker.<br /> <br /> Their father was born in Kreuzburg, East Prussia in 1706. We know also the other generations:<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family from Prussia <br /> (15th-17th c.)|Michel Tolkien (b. ca. 1620, Globuhnen by Kreuzburg, Prussia)|Christianus Tolkien <br /> (1663-1746, Kreuzburg, Kingdom of Prussia)|Christian Tolkien (b. 1706 in Kreuzburg, d. 1791 in Gdańsk, Polish Prussia)= Anna Euphrosina Tolkien, née Bergholtz (1719-1792)|Johann (John) Benjamin Tolkien (b. 1752 in Gdańsk, d. 1819 in London)|George Tolkien (1784-1840)<br /> |John Benjamin Tolkien(1807-1896)|Arthur Reuel Tolkien(1857-1896)|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien(1892-1973)<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family name belongs to a big Prussian family of names with the ending -in, -yn, -ien, -iehn and comes from Tolk-īn 'a descendant of Tolk'. Tolk is a Prussian name meaning 'translator, negotiator'<br /> <br /> The Tolkiens in the 16th-18th centuries lives in East Prussia. You will not find the Tolkiens in Saxony, because it is a Prussian family of medieval roots in the Teutonic State. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :The current text is what Tolkien himself believed to be the origin of his family and family name. He mentioned it multiple times - [[Letter 165]] and [[Letter 324]], for example. He explicitly dismisses the association with Tolk- ("interpreter", "spokesman") in [[Letter 349]]. Even if that blog were true - I'm not saying it isn't - outright removing the current text and replacing it with things that contradict it is not the way to go. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I am sorry. I am not a Wikipedist, I have problems with proper editing in the places like this. I undestrand, Ederchil your position. The clue is that Professor Tolkien couldn't know things we know today. My research is known to the Tolkien family today, it is already accepted by the Tolkien Society (see their website) and is included in the newest "The J.R.R. Tolkien. Companion and Guide". I spent last year in the archives to find the truth about the Tolkien genealogy. Only you know how to enter the information from me into your Tolkien Gateway. Plese, think about including the information about the roots in Gdańsk and East Prussia. And about the alternative etymology of the Tolkien family name. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :I have no problems with including it, as long as it is properly sourced and the current is not removed. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Can you help me with it, Ederchil? As a source you can cite Ch. Scull, W. G. Hammond, "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide" (2017), G 828, 1298. When they publish my article in the "Tolkien Studies" there will be another source for the Tolkien Gateway (I will inform you about the publication). Or you can quote the Tolkien Society website: https://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/biography/<br /> <br /> "The name “Tolkien” (pron.: Tol-keen; equal stress on both syllables) was believed by the family (including Tolkien himself) to be of German origin; Toll-kühn: foolishly brave, or stupidly clever—hence the pseudonym “Oxymore” which he occasionally used; however, this quite probably was a German rationalisation of an originally Baltic Tolkyn, or Tolkīn. In any case, his great-great grandfather John (Johann) Benjamin Tolkien came to Britain with his brother Daniel from Gdańsk in about 1772 and rapidly became thoroughly Anglicised."<br /> <br /> I am very weak as a Wikipedist. I don't understand the language of the coding in here. Please, help me.<br /> <br /> = 2018 =<br /> == Lots of time to learn, my boy ==<br /> <br /> It is clear you bring your own view, only, to this Wiki.<br /> <br /> A moderator's task is to intervene when new users first stray from your narrow course.<br /> <br /> Not after much effort.<br /> <br /> This is clearly habitual.<br /> <br /> Now I see why so many Wiki's exist on this topic.<br /> <br /> Some even allow flexibility and detail.<br /> <br /> You are young and I hope you have the time to really understand Tolkien's great Work.<br /> <br /> There seems to be a lot of Noldor in your ATTITUDE.<br /> <br /> But it's YOUR Wiki, so...<br /> <br /> [[User:Fudoki|Fudoki]] 21:00, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :So much for the skin of Ironfoot. Wait, was the skin of Ironfoot ever mentioned? Guess not. Silly me.<br /> :I admire that you want to help out. But putting in effort does not automatically mean it's a well-written summary of the life of Fingon. It was practically unsalvageable, a jumbled collection of clauses.<br /> :I'm not young by most standards, and I'm more Dwarf than Noldo. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:16, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == "Other" label ==<br /> <br /> You wrote "again, this is not what Other is for" in the Elured and Elurin articles... So I repeat what I asked in the Talk:Elwing page: Given the fact that Eluréd, Elurín and Elwing present some difficulties in being classified in terms of elf/man/half-elf, why not use a neutral label? Despite the name "other", the label is an empty one, the character in question is not put in some list of "strange races" or nothing like that. See [[Falathar]] and companions: they were elves or men, but we don't know exactly what they are, so the "other" label was applied in their articles. If you insist this is wrong, I think a third way should be find, because the "elf" label doesn't seem right to me: Dior was mortal, your sons couldn't be elves. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 19:31, 1 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Those two are three quarters Elf. They're more Elvish than Half-elves. And even Half-elves are still identified by their Elvenness (they're not called Half-men) so giving them a undetermined elf infobox is still better than lumping them with "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: You explore a very subjective line of argumentation, percentage of elvish blood and the word "half-elf"... I don't see why this so personal thinking would be better, instead of a neutral label - "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox" is another subjective vision of yours, nothing in the box says that - or even a “sinda” label, for example... But whatever, I think you had a pet peeve with my editions since the beginning, reverting them and writing hardly nothing, and now have found a new way to continue disagreeing - particularly because this argumentation of yours is a new one, you insisted earlier on restoring the "half-elf" label, and, indeed, you replaced Elurín in the Category:Half-Elves and it still remain so... [[User:Haran|Haran]] 21:07, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Unnecessary block? ==<br /> <br /> What did you block [[User:JaquelineKitchen]] for? She (I'm assuming it is "she") had not done anything wrong...--[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 14:27, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a spambot. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Okay, I understand now. Thanks for expalaining. --[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 13:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB ==<br /> <br /> Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB. Ik heb valide informative toegevoegd. Vervolgens wordt dit verwijderd. Daar heb ik geen zin in. Dan maar niet. {{unsigned|PeterNC}}<br /> <br /> :Er zijn zoveel fans wereldwijd dat we toch enige grenzen moeten stellen. Mensen die boeken of artikelen gepubliceerd hebben krijgen voorrang. <br /> :Ik heb nog geprobeerd om het te herschrijven, maar er was bar weinig aan te doen. Sommige delen waren woord voor woord (en dode link voor dode link) overgenomen van [[Haradrim (Tolkien Society)]] en andere waren niet meer dan reclame. Dat het valide is betekent niet dat wij het in de aangeboden vorm maar moeten gebruiken. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == parabombing what?! ==<br /> <br /> But what the matter with my edits??? They are not vandalism, this is a fact that spiders don't have stingers, if Shelob was born in the First Age, she's obviously several millenia old, and square kilometer converting is also useful for somebody not mastering well Anglo-Saxon metric system. Not every statement needs sourcing, it would be nonsense. [[Special:Contributions/193.54.167.180|193.54.167.180]] 18:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The age needs to be a number. Even if an approximation, it needs to be written out in numbers with the source in a ref and any explanation in a note. <br /> :Is there any source spiders don't have stingers in Middle-earth?<br /> :It's not the "Anglo-Saxon metric system". Or the Imperial system, as it's actually mean (it's not metric). The mentioned measures are the translation convention Tolkien used for the [[Lár]]/league and the [[Ranga]]/yard, and presumably other units of measurement too. A mile in the real world is a third of a league, and that's usually used in analysis of scale, but as the Númenorean reckoning was decimal, one could question whether they had a "mile" equivalent, or if they used tenths of leagues or fifths or something. But miles were the terms Tolkien used. Not kilometers. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure if the term "square mile" is even used. I've removed the comparison of real world countries because this minute difference.<br /> :Parabombing is the wiki practice of plonking a sentence within parentheses in the middle of a paragraph, without regard for what it does for the sentence. If you cannot work it into the section in a natural, readable way, don't add it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:29, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> = 2019 =<br /> ==Spammer Problem and Trying to Fix It==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, I've been trying to restore the infobox on the [[Wizards]] article after [[Special:Contributions/66.203.18.47|66.203.18.47]] spammed it and then restored it to normal, but I can't find the template. Also, I've seen that this user has been consistently spamming and restoring articles, and that is definitely a rotten thing to do. Can you help me? Thank you! -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Also, he completely messed up the entire article, and I've been trying to revert his edits. It's not working, though. -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Never mind, I fixed it, but I'm still concerned about this user. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> :Done. An easy way to fix it is just go to the page's history and edit and save the last version from before the vandalism. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:10, 24 January 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Bedankt voor de hulp(Please excuse my unprofessional Dutch)! I hope I'm not being too much of a pest; that's what happens when a 14-year-old signs up on a Tolkien wiki. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> == Article Image Question ==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, can you look [[Talk:Meriadoc Brandybuck|here]] really quickly and give your opinion on it? Thanks! —{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 00:20, 19 Feb 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Discrepancies on Arvegil ==<br /> <br /> So just how do you propose to acknowledge that the published text of TLotR leaves no room for the birth year or lifespan attributed to Arvegil by "The Heirs of Elendil" to be correct?...letting the latter stand uncontradicted is just unconscionable.[[Special:Contributions/12.144.5.2|12.144.5.2]] 15:57, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :We generally have "Other versions of the Legendarium" as a section header for any out-of-universe information. But that wasn't the only issue. Sources need to be in-line with [[:Category:Citation templates|specific citation templates]], and it should just be a mention of the discrepancy, without a conclusion about its canonicity.<br /> :And you should never start anything with "It should be noted". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hi, I just rewrite the edit, so it fixes the TG style and article structure. I recommend Mr.12.144.5.2 to read TG policy on canonicity before saying what's canon. I leave to the admins to let be my edit or not, as I don't have those book editions, so I can't check them or cite them properly. It should be rewrite anyways, I know my English is not the best, but it took me a while to understand the issue with a whole paragraph in just one sentence. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::That did not address any of the style issues. It was the same text with just a header, no markup or style changes. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::I did the markup and removed some ideas. May the anonymous editor rewrite it if he is so interested, I won't.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:35, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::Removed [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arvegil&curid=1320&diff=306264&oldid=306218 the lot]. The Aragorn comparison wasn't in the original source anyway. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==User name==<br /> Hi, would it be possible to change my username, please? I first wanted to edit a few things, became addicted to edition and now it feels weird seeing my name everywhere. If it's not possible or too difficult, it doesn't matter, I'll keep editing anyways. Thank you very much.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:41, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> :It should be possible, but I'm not sure how. Ask [[User:Mith|Mith]].--{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaiment ==<br /> <br /> Why did you delete all of my editings? Do you have any problem with me? Do you have any idea how much time it took me to upload these images? {{unsigned|Gegou}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I have no issue with you, don't worry. I also didn't delete all your additions; I've kept the [[Talion]] article. As for the images, they did not meet the [[Tolkien Gateway:Image policy|standards we've set for them]]. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talion&diff=306676 Talion 2019-08-29T05:34:28Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{adaptation}}{{cleanup}}<br /> {{gondorian infobox<br /> | name=Talion<br /> | image=<br /> | caption=<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=Ranger<br />The Gravewalker <br />The Bright Lord (alongside Celebrimbor)<br /> | titles=<br /> | position=Soldier<br /> | location=[[Gondor]]<br /> | affiliation=<br /> | language=<br /> | birth=before [[Third Age 2941|TA 2941]]<br /> | birthlocation=<br /> | rule=<br /> | death=<br /> | deathlocation=<br /> | age=<br /> | notablefor=<br /> | house=<br /> | parentage=<br /> | siblings=<br /> | spouse=<br /> | children=<br /> | gender=Male<br /> | height=<br /> | hair=<br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=<br /> | steed=<br /> }}<br /> '''Talion''' is a character created for the videogame ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]''. He was the Captain of the Rangers of Gondor. He was married to Ioreth and had a son with her, named Dirhael. <br /> <br /> {{title}}<br /> [[Category:Men from adaptations]] [[Category:Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Celebrimbor&diff=306675 Celebrimbor 2019-08-29T05:33:03Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by Gegou (talk) to last revision by Stone</p> <hr /> <div>{{noldor infobox<br /> | name=Celebrimbor<br /> | image=[[File:Angus McBride - Celebrimbor.gif|250px]]<br /> | caption="Celebrimbor" by [[Angus McBride]]<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=''[[Telperinquar]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]])<br /> | titles=[[Lord of Eregion]]<br /> | position=<br /> | location=[[Nargothrond]], [[Eregion]]<br /> | affiliation=[[Gwaith-i-Mírdain]]<br /> | language=[[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]]<br /> | birth=Before {{FA|455}}<ref name=PMXnotes/> <br /> | birthlocation=<br /> | rule={{SA|750}} - {{SA|1697}} (ruled 947 years)<br /> | death={{SA|1697}}<br /> | deathlocation=[[Ost-in-Edhil]], [[War of the Elves and Sauron]]<br /> | age=2287+<br /> | notablefor=Creating the [[Rings of Power]]<br /> | house=[[House of Fëanor]]<br /> | parentage=[[Curufin]]<br /> | siblings=<br /> | spouse=<br /> | children=<br /> | gender=Male<br /> | height=<br /> | hair=<br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=<br /> | steed=<br /> }}<br /> {{Pronounce|Celebrimbor.mp3|Ardamir}}<br /> '''Celebrimbor''' ([[Sindarin|S]], pron. {{IPA|[ˌkɛlɛˈbrɪmbɔr]}}) was the son of [[Curufin]],<ref name=PMXnotes>{{PM|XNotes}}</ref> fifth son of [[Fëanor]]. Aside from his grandfather, Celebrimbor was the greatest craftsman in the history of [[Middle-earth]], and his forging of the [[Rings of Power]] led to the dominion and eventual downfall of [[Sauron]] in the [[War of the Ring]].<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> === Early life ===<br /> [[Image:Marya Filatova - Celebrimbor.jpg|thumb|left|Marya Filatova - ''Celebrimbor'']]<br /> The early years of Celebrimbor are not known, but probably he was born in [[Valinor]] (and followed his father and grandfather into the [[Exile of the Noldor]] in [[Middle-earth]]. His mother stayed behind.<ref name=PMXnotes/><br /> <br /> He probably fled to [[Nargothrond]] after the [[Dagor Bragollach]]. However, he took no part in the deeds of Curufin and [[Celegorm]] regarding [[Lúthien]], [[Beren]], and [[Finrod]]. He even repudiated his father's deeds and did not follow him when the two brothers were cast out from Nargothrond by [[Orodreth]]. <br /> <br /> After the [[sack of Nargothrond]], Celebrimbor lived for a time in [[Gondolin]], where he was a great jewel smith for King [[Turgon]]. He may have created the [[Elessar of Eärendil]], though other accounts name [[Enerdhil]] as the Master Jewelsmith and creator of the [[Elfstone]], who perhaps taught Celebrimbor this art.<ref name="CG">{{UT|6}}</ref><br /> <br /> A legend says that during the Second Age Celebrimbor was in love with [[Galadriel]] who was pained at the state of [[Middle-earth]]. Celebrimbor remade another version of the Elessar at her behest, with less power than the original.<ref name="CG"/><br /> <br /> During the Second Age, he was lord of the elves of [[Ost-in-Edhil]] in [[Eregion]]. He was also the head of the [[Gwaith-i-Mírdain]], a guild of elven craftsmen. Their skill was so renowned that they gained the admiration and friendship of the [[Dwarves]] of [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]]. Together with the dwarf [[Narvi]], Celebrimbor crafted the [[Doors of Durin]] that guarded the West-gate of the Dwarven kingdom.<ref>{{FR|Journey}}</ref><br /> <br /> === The Rings of Power ===<br /> Around {{SA|1200}}<ref name=AppB1/> a [[Maia]] craftsman called [[Annatar]] (the "Lord of Gifts") arrived at Ost-in-Edhil as an emissary of the [[Valar]], offering his knowledge to the Gwaith-i-Mírdain. This was [[Sauron]], who had come to subvert the elves. <br /> <br /> Under the guidance and instruction of Annatar, Celebrimbor and the Gwaith-i-Mírdain made several [[Lesser rings|lesser]] and 16 more powerful rings. A legend says that Celebrimbor gave [[Ring of Thrór|one of those rings]] to [[Kings of Durin's Folk|King]] [[Durin III]] who reigned in [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]]<ref>{{S|Rings}}</ref><br /> <br /> Based on knowledge gained from Annatar, Celebrimbor also created by himself [[Three Rings]], the greatest and fairest of the Rings of Power. These rings were thus free of Sauron's corrupting influence, for only Celebrimbor himself touched them. Celebrimbor named the rings [[Vilya]], [[Narya]], and [[Nenya]] after the principal Middle-earth elements of air, fire, and water, respectively.<br /> <br /> Around {{SA|1600}}, Sauron secretly forged [[the One Ring]] in [[Orodruin]], which would enable him to rule Middle-earth by claiming dominance over all the Rings of Power and their bearers. Celebrimbor and the Elves felt betrayed when they wore the Rings and defied Sauron by withholding the other rings from him. Celebrimbor then sent the three rings away for safekeeping: Vilya and Narya to [[Gil-galad]] and [[Círdan]], respectively, in [[Lindon]], and Nenya to [[Galadriel]] in [[Lothlórien]]. He then prepared for [[War of the Elves and Sauron|war]].<br /> <br /> ===Fight against Sauron and death===<br /> Sauron retaliated by attacking Eregion in {{SA|1695}}, laying waste to the realm. Celebrimbor was captured in the [[Sack of Eregion]], and was forced under torture to disclose where the sixteen were held, but he would not reveal the whereabouts of the three elvish rings. Sauron captured the other rings and used them as instruments of evil in later years, particularly against Men. <br /> [[File:Abe Papakhian - Death of Celebrimbor.jpg|thumb|Abe Papakhian - ''Death of Celebrimbor'']]<br /> Celebrimbor died from his torment in {{SA|1697}},<ref name=AppB1>{{App|B1}}</ref> the last direct descendant of the line of Fëanor. His body, shot with arrows, was hung upon a pole and carried by the forces of Sauron as a banner as they assaulted the Elves.<ref>{{UT|Concerning}}</ref><br /> == Renowned works ==<br /> * The [[Elessar of Eärendil]]<br /> * [[Doors of Durin]] (with [[Narvi]])<br /> * The [[Rings of Power]]:<br /> ** The [[Nine Rings]] of Men (with [[Annatar]])<br /> ** The [[Seven Rings]] of the Dwarves (with [[Annatar]])<br /> ** The [[Three Rings]] of the Elves<br /> == Etymology ==<br /> The name '''''Celebrimbor''''' is the [[Sindarin]] translation of his [[Quenya]] father-name '''[[Telperinquar]]''' (pron. {{IPA|[ˌtelpeˈriŋʷkʷar]}}). His [[Amilessë|mother-name]] is unknown. ''Celebrimbor'' consists of ''[[celeb|celebrin]]'' ("silver-like") + ''[[paur|baur]]'' ("fist").<ref name=PE17>{{PE|17}}, p. 42</ref><br /> <br /> == Other versions of the legendarium ==<br /> Celebrimbor was invented for the back-story of the ''Lord of the Rings'' with no background in the [[Lord of the Rings (first edition)|first edition]] (before [[1966]]); afterwards Tolkien attempted to write a background to link him with the [[Elder Days]]: in [[The History of Galadriel and Celeborn|a passage concerning Galadriel and Celeborn]] he was described as a Noldo survivor of Gondolin, who had been one of Turgon's greatest artificers. He was prideful and had an almost "dwarvish" obsession with crafts, survived the Fall and later became a follower of Celeborn and Galadriel. However, in a note Tolkien put next to the text, he wrote, "it would be better 'to make him a descendant of Fëanor'." <br /> <br /> Thus, an appropriate line is added in the [[Appendix B]] of the second edition. Tolkien then proceeded to decide which of Fëanor's sons would result to Celebrimbor; a note describes their wives and children, stating that, [[Maglor|Maelor]], [[Caranthir]] and Curufin were wedded, concluding that "Curufin, dearest to his father and chief inheritor of his father's skills, [...] had a son who came with him into exile, though his wife (unnamed) did not."<ref name=PMXnotes/> [[Christopher Tolkien]] used this note as a basis for ''The Silmarillion'', where Celebrimbor is the son of Curufin who remained in Nargothrond when his father was expelled.<ref>{{S|Index}}</ref> <br /> <br /> However, apparently forgetting the published statement, Tolkien explored other ideas; in [[Vinyar Tengwar 47|an essay]] dated [[1968]] Celebrimbor is referred as a [[Falmari|Telerin]] silver-smith who followed Celeborn to Middle-earth, and ended up to Eregion being fascinated by the silver-like [[mithril]].<ref name=PMXnotes/> In [[Of Dwarves and Men]] ([[1969]] or later) he mentions that he was a [[Sinda]] and descendant of [[Daeron]] of [[Doriath]] who continued to use his [[Cirth|runic script]] in Eregion.<ref>{{PM|X}}</ref>{{rp|297}}<ref name=PMXnotes/><br /> <br /> == Genealogy ==<br /> <div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br /> {{familytree/start}}<br /> {{familytree| MHT | | MIR |y| FIN |y| IND | | | | | | | | | | | | |MHT=[[Mahtan]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>| MIR=[[Míriel]]<br/><small>''d. {{YT|1170}}''</small>|FIN=[[Finwë]]<br/><small>''d. {{YT|1495}}''</small>|IND=[[Indis]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree| |!| | | | | |!| | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |}}<br /> {{familytree| NRD |~|y|~| FEA | | FDS | | FNG | | IRM | | FRF | | |NRD=[[Nerdanel]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|FEA=[[Fëanor]]<br/><small>''{{YT|1169}} - {{YT|1497|n}}''</small>|FDS=[[Findis]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]<br/><small>''{{YT|1190}} - {{FA|456}}''</small>|IRM=[[Írimë]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|FRF=[[Finarfin]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT|1230}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree| |,|-|-|^|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| |}}<br /> {{familytree| MDH | | MAG | | CEL | | CAR | | CUR | | AMD | | AMR |MDH=[[Maedhros]]<br/><small>''d. {{FA|587}}''</small>|MAG=[[Maglor]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|CEL=[[Celegorm]]<br/><small>''d. {{FA|506}}''</small>|CAR=[[Caranthir]]<br/><small>''d. {{FA|506}}''</small>|CUR=[[Curufin]]<br/><small>''d. {{FA|506}}''</small>|AMD=[[Amrod]]<br/><small>''d. {{FA|538}}''</small>|AMR=[[Amras]]<br/><small>''d. {{FA|538}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |}}<br /> {{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CLB | | | | | | | | |CLB='''CELEBRIMBOR'''<br/><small>''d. {{SA|1697}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree/end}}<br /> </div><br /> <br /> == Portrayal in adaptations ==<br /> '''2014: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'''''<br /> :Celebrimbor plays a major role in the video game, serving as a [[wraith]] who is bound to an [[Undead|undead]] [[Gondorians|Gondorian]] [[Rangers of Ithilien|Ranger]], Talion, by the will of [[Sauron]]. He is voiced by [[Alister Duncan]]. He is also the main protagonist of the ''Bright Lord'' expansion, where he is revealed to have stolen the One Ring from Sauron at some point in the Second Age, and intended to use it to turn the Dark Lord's own weapons against him. However, he is corrupted by the power of the Ring and doomed to never see the Undying Lands. Though he defeats Sauron in battle, Sauron still managed to reclaim the Ring and banish Celebrimbor's spirit to an eternity as a wraith in the Unseen world.<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> * [[:Category:Images of Celebrimbor|Images of Celebrimbor]].<br /> <br /> {{references}}<br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br /> [[Category:First Age characters]]<br /> [[Category:Second Age characters]]<br /> [[Category:House of Fëanor]]<br /> [[Category:Sindarin names]]<br /> [[Category:Noldor]]<br /> [[de:Celebrimbor]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo:personnages:elfes:noldor:celebrimbor]]<br /> [[fi:Celebrimbor]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Dol_Guldur&diff=306674 Dol Guldur 2019-08-29T05:32:49Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by Gegou (talk) to last revision by Mith</p> <hr /> <div>{{Countdown}}<br /> {{disambig-two|the stronghold in [[Mirkwood]]|[[Middle-earth Role Playing|MERP]] supplement|[[Dol Guldur (book)]]}}<br /> {{location infobox<br /> | name=Dol Guldur<br /> | image=[[File:Matěj Čadil - Dol Guldur.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption="Dol Guldur" by Matěj Čadil<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=[[Amon Lanc]]<br /> | location=Southern [[Mirkwood]]<br /> | typeFortified stronghold/outpost<br /> | description=Barren hilltop later occupied by [[Sauron]] and [[Nazgûl]]<br /> | regions=<br /> | towns=<br /> | inhabitants=[[Silvan Elves]], later [[Orcs]] and other Fell creatures<br /> | created=Around {{TA|1100}}<br /> | destroyed={{TA|3019}}<br /> | events=[[Attack on Dol Guldur]], [[Fall of Dol Guldur]]<br /> }}<br /> {{Pronounce|Dol Guldur.mp3|Ardamir}}<br /> <br /> '''Dol Guldur''' ("Hill of Sorcery" in [[Sindarin]]),<ref>{{S|Index}}</ref> also called "the dungeons of the Necromancer",<ref>{{H|1}}</ref><ref>''"The sins of Middle Earth, Tolkien's use of Allegory"''. Chapter 6. Greenwood Press. pp. 86.</ref> was a stronghold of [[Sauron]] located in the south of [[Mirkwood]].<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> Dol Guldur was originally known as '''[[Amon Lanc]]''' ("Bald Hill") in [[Mirkwood|Greenwood the Great]].<ref>{{UT|Gladden}}, note 12, p. 280</ref> It had been the capital of [[Oropher]]'s [[Silvan Elves]], who had departed north to the Dark Mountains<ref>{{UT|Gladden}}, note 14, p. 280</ref> (later known as the [[Mountains of Mirkwood]]).<br /> <br /> Somewhere after {{TA|1000}}, an evil presence took over Amon Lanc. It was in {{TA|1050|n}} that a [[shadow]] fell upon Greenwood and it began to be called [[Mirkwood]].<ref name="TA">{{App|TA}}</ref> The hostile entity was known as "the [[Necromancer]]" by the peoples. [[Thranduil]] son of [[Oropher]] led his people over the [[Forest River]], where they remained.<ref>{{UT|6b}}, p. 259</ref><br /> [[File:John Howe - Pass the Doors of Dol Guldur.jpg|thumb|left|[[John Howe]] - ''Pass the Doors of Dol Guldur'']]<br /> The [[White Council|Council of the Wise]] long feared the Necromancer might be none other than [[Sauron]] himself who secretly regained his powers after his defeat in the [[War of the Last Alliance]]. In {{TA|2063|n}} [[Gandalf]] went to Dol Guldur, and the "Necromancer", not yet powerful, fled to the [[East]] so as not to be identified.<br /> <br /> After [[Watchful Peace|four centuries]] in {{TA|2460|n}}, just as [[the One Ring]] was found by [[Sméagol]] the [[Stoors|Stoor]], the "Necromancer" returned there.<ref name="TA"/><br /> <br /> A dark [[shadow]] and cloud flowed from Dol Guldur whereas a golden mist that came from [[Lothlórien]] to the west contended with the darkness coming from Mirkwood. In {{TA|2510}} when [[Eorl]] the Young was leading his riders to the [[Battle of the Field of Celebrant]] he steered his force westward to avoid the phenomenon of the shadow, and they entered the mist.<ref>{{UT|Cirion}}, p. 298</ref><br /> <br /> In {{TA|2845|n}} [[Thráin|Thráin II]], [[Kings of Durin's Folk|King of Durin's Folk]]-in-exile and holder of the [[Ring of Thrór|last]] of the [[Seven Rings]] of the [[Dwarves]], was on his way to the [[Lonely Mountain]]. He was captured near the eaves of Mirkwood, imprisoned and tortured in Dol Guldur's dungeons, and his Ring taken from him. In {{TA|2850|n}} Gandalf again entered Dol Guldur, found the dying Thráin, and was entrusted with the [[Thrór's Map|map]] and key to give to [[Thorin]], although Thráin could not tell him his own or his son's name before he died. Gandalf confirmed that the Necromancer, the master of Dol Guldur at that time, was Sauron.<ref name="TA"/><br /> [[File:Angus McBride - Dol Guldur.jpg|thumb|Angus McBride - ''Dol Guldur'']]<br /> Gandalf returned to the [[White Council]] and urged an attack on Dol Guldur, but was overruled by [[Saruman]], who secretly had begun searching for the One Ring in the area by then. In {{TA|2941}} Saruman finally agreed to an attack, which occurred at the same time as the [[Quest of Erebor]]. This was carefully planned by Gandalf, so that Sauron and [[Smaug]] could not assist each other, as otherwise they could easily have done. During the attack, Sauron fled to [[Mordor]], his plans now ready.<br /> <br /> In {{TA|2951|n}} Dol Guldur was reoccupied by [[Khamûl]], the second chief<ref>{{UT|Hunt}}, note 1, p. 352</ref>, and two other [[Nazgûl]].<ref name="TA"/><br /> <br /> In the following decades Dol Guldur must have rebuilt some of its power until the [[War of the Ring]], during which its forces made assaults upon the [[Woodland Realm]] and [[Lothlórien|Lórien]],<ref name=great/> causing grievous damage to the outlying woodlands. However each time they were driven back by [[Thranduil]] and [[Galadriel]] who held the power of [[Nenya]]; which only Sauron himself could have overcome.<br /> <br /> Dol Guldur was finally destroyed and cleansed by the [[Elves]] of Lórien, led by [[Galadriel]], after Sauron's fall.<ref name=great>{{App|Great}}</ref><br /> <br /> ==Etymology==<br /> ''Dol Guldur'' is [[Sindarin]] from ''dol'' "hill" and ''[[guldur]]'' "sorcery".{{fact}}<br /> <br /> ==Other versions of the legendarium==<br /> The original name of Dol Guldur was Dol Dúgol, and on [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]'s first map for ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' the hill was located much farther east than its later location (in square M-15 of Map II).<ref name="Map II">{{TI|MII}}, p. 305</ref> [[Christopher Tolkien]] explained that Map II had faint traces of green which suggested that Mirkwood originally extended farther to the east too.<ref>{{TI|First}}, p. 298</ref> The name Dol Dúgol was stricken out and the hill was moved to its later location on this map, but its name became Dol Dúghul before finally changing to Dol Guldur.<ref name="Map II"/><br /> <br /> ==Portrayal in adaptations==<br /> {{Gallery<br /> |title=Dol Guldur in adaptations<br /> |width=165<br /> |height=140<br /> |lines=3<br /> |File:Dol Guldur.jpg|Dol Guldur in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''<br /> |File:Galadriel dol guldur bfmeII.JPG|The [[Fall of Dol Guldur]] from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II|The Battle for Middle-earth II]]''<br /> }}<br /> ===Films===<br /> '''2012: ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]'':'''<br /> :Dol Guldur is depicted as a ruined and abandoned fortress of unknown origin. It features statues of the Nazgûl. [[Radagast]], not [[Gandalf]], enters Dol Guldur. He is attacked by the [[Witch-king]], obtains a [[Morgul-knife|Morgul blade]], and finds that Dol Guldur is occupied by a [[Sauron|Necromancer]]. He then travels to Gandalf to tell him the news and gives him the sword as proof.<br /> <br /> '''2013: ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]'':'''<br /> :Gandalf enters Dol Guldur to investigate its ruins. There he meets [[Azog]] and his army. He tries to escape, but is trapped by [[Sauron|the Necromancer]], who reveals to Gandalf his true identity. Gandalf is later seen trapped in one of the cages.<br /> <br /> '''2014: ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'':'''<br /> :[[Galadriel]] enters Dol Guldur in order to rescue Gandalf. Accompanied by [[Saruman]] and [[Elrond]] they encounter Sauron and [[Nazgûl|the Nine]]. The [[Attack on Dol Guldur|Attack]] begins and Sauron flees to [[Mordor|the East]].<br /> <br /> ===Games===<br /> '''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'':'''<br /> :Dol Guldur makes appearance during both "Good" and "Evil" campaigns as a site of a major battleground.<br /> <br /> '''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br /> :Dol Guldur is commanded by the [[Mouth of Sauron]], not [[Khamûl]]. Dol Guldur (or Mordor itself) sent a huge army of Orcs, Haradrim, and Trolls to assault [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]]. The attack fails, and the Mouth of Sauron is killed along with all the attacking force. Dol Guldur is then itself attacked by a combined army of Elves and Dwarves led by [[Elrond]], [[Arwen]], [[Glorfindel]], [[Glóin]], and [[Dáin Ironfoot]]. After a long and hard struggle, the Elves and Dwarves finally overrun Dol Guldur and lay waste to the evil that dwelled there, ending Sauron's war campaign in the North once and for all.<br /> <br /> :In the Evil Campaign, the Goblins from Dol Guldur eliminate the Elves and the Ents that guard the Forest Road in Mirkwood.<br /> <br /> '''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br /> :Dol Guldur is a central point in the game's second expansion, ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Siege of Mirkwood]]''. In its storyline, Celeborn and Galadriel organize a military campaign against Dol Guldur while the Fellowship still resides in Lothlórien (not to be confused with the later battle during the War of the Ring). The announced goal is to sow chaos into Orc forces by destroying as many of their troops, weapons and supplies as possible, to delay an inevitable assault upon Lothlórien. The true purpose, however, is to distract the Eye of Sauron from the company departing down the shores of Anduin. An assault by the Golden Host of the Galadhrim is successful despite minor losses and after establishing multiple camps throughout southern Mirkwood arrives at the walls of the fortress itself. However, without the White Lady they do not have the means of bringing down the walls, so the Elves prepare to swiftly fall back beyond Anduin before the main forces of the Enemy arrive. The players can also explore multiple locations within the Fortress, among them the Necromancer's Gate, the Ringwraith's Lair, the Dungeons of Dol Guldur, the chief tower named Barad Guldur and Sammath Gul - the chambers once occupied by the Dark Lord himself. Much later, after the [[War of the Ring]], the Galadhrim and [[Elves of Mirkwood]] lead a great assault on Dol Guldur, where Galadriel casts down the walls of the stronghold, and renames the hill ''Dol Dhannen'', "The Hill of Ruin".<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> * [[:Category:Images of Dol Guldur|Images of Dol Guldur]]<br /> * [[Attack on Dol Guldur]]<br /> * [[Fall of Dol Guldur]]<br /> * [[Sauron|Necromancer]]<br /> {{references}}<br /> [[Category:Buildings]]<br /> [[Category:Fortresses]]<br /> [[Category:Rhovanion]]<br /> [[Category:Sindarin locations]]<br /> <br /> [[de:Dol Guldur]]<br /> [[fi:Dol Guldur]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo:geographie:villes_tours_et_forteresses:rhovanion:dol_guldur]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Shelob&diff=306673 Shelob 2019-08-29T05:32:42Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by Gegou (talk) to last revision by Ederchil</p> <hr /> <div>{{cleanup}}<br /> {{sources}}<br /> {{evil infobox<br /> | name=Shelob<br /> | image=[[File:John Howe - Sam and Shelob.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption="Sam and Shelob" by [[John Howe]]<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=Her Ladyship, She<br /> | titles=<br /> | position=<br /> | location=[[Nan Dungortheb]] ([[First Age]])<br/>[[Cirith Ungol]] (from [[Second Age]]) <br /> | affiliation=<br /> | language=<br /> | birth=[[First Age]]<br /> | birthlocation=<br /> | rule=<br /> | death=<br /> | deathlocation=<br /> | age=unknown<br /> | notablefor=Attacking [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]]<br /> | parentage=[[Ungoliant]]<br /> | siblings=<br /> | spouse=<br /> | children=[[Spiders]] of [[Mirkwood]]<br /> | race=[[Spiders|Spider]]<br /> | gender=Female<br /> | height=<br /> | hair=<br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=a stinger<br /> | steed=<br /> }}<br /> '''Shelob''' was a great spider-like creature akin to those of [[Nan Dungortheb]] in [[Beleriand]], the last offspring of the demonic [[Ungoliant]].<br /> <br /> ==History== <br /> Shelob was born during the [[Elder Days]], to the spider-like demon Ungoliant, who mated with (and devoured) the spider-creatures of the [[Ered Gorgoroth]]. She dwelt for many years in [[Nan Dungortheb]] with her countless brothers and sisters, even after Ungoliant ventured elsewhere.<br /> <br /> Shelob fled from ruin (apparently the [[War of Wrath]]) and established her lair high in the mountains of [[Mordor]] at least in the first centuries of the [[Second Age]], before [[Sauron]] claimed that land as his own. She mated with her offspring which she slew, and her descendants were to be seen in [[Ephel Dúath]] and [[Mirkwood]].<ref name=lair>{{TT|Lair}}</ref><ref name=guide/> <br /> <br /> Shelob fed off all living things, such as [[Elves]] and [[Men]], but as these became scarce in the area, she fed upon [[orcs]].<ref name=lair/> Sauron would sometimes send her captured prisoners for whom he had no further use and amuse himself watching how she played with her prey. Even though they did not communicate, Sauron and Shelob understood each other. She served as a secure guardian of the pass of [[Cirith Ungol]] to prevent any intruders from entering the dark land.<br /> <br /> [[File:Eytan Eylul Guler - Shelob and Sam.jpg|230px|thumb|left|Eytan Eylul Guler - ''Shelob and Sam'']]<br /> While looking for [[the One Ring]], [[Gollum]] was trapped by her, but he managed somehow to communicate with her and promised to bring her more food if she released him. Indeed, Gollum (whom the orcs of the [[Tower of Cirith Ungol]] call "Shelob's Sneak") brought [[Samwise Gamgee]] and [[Frodo Baggins]] near her Lair while seeking [[Mount Doom]].<br /> <br /> While put off by the [[Phial of Galadriel]] in the tunnels, she intercepted them again outside and attacked Frodo, stinging him into a death-like coma. Sam managed to defeat her by letting her impale herself upon [[Sting]] when she tried to crush him under her massive body and using all power of the Phial of Galadriel to blind her. Wounded, she fled to her lair and was not seen for the remainder of Lord of the Rings.<br /> <br /> Thinking Frodo dead, Sam took the One Ring from him and left his body behind, but discovered later that Shelob's venom was not intended to kill its victims but only to render them unconscious and keep their meat fresh.<br /> <br /> Shelob may have eventually died of starvation caused by her inability to hunt while blind.<ref name=guide>{{HM|Guide}}, p. 353, entry "Shelob"</ref><br /> <br /> ==Etymology==<br /> The name ''Shelob'' is derived from "lob", an archaic English word for spider. A variation, "cob" is the derivation of the word "cobweb". The first element, "she", simply mentions the spider's gender.<ref>{{L|70}}</ref><br /> <br /> [[Robert Foster]] mistakenly classified the name as [[Sindarin]], failing to provide a translation.<ref name=guide/><br /> <br /> ==Genealogy==<br /> {{familytree/start}}<br /> {{familytree| | | UNG | | | |UNG=[[Ungoliant]]</br><small>''fl. {{YT|1495}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree| |,|-|^|~|7| | |}}<br /> {{familytree| SHE | | NAN | |SHE='''SHELOB'''</br><small>''fl. {{TA|3019}}''</small>|NAN=''[[Spiders]] of [[Nan Dungortheb]]''}}<br /> {{familytree| |:| | | | | | |}}<br /> {{familytree| MIR | | | | | |MIR=''[[Spiders]] of [[Mirkwood]]''}}<br /> {{familytree/end}}<br /> <br /> ==Portrayal in adaptations==<br /> '''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:'''<br /> :Shelob was voiced by [[Jenny Lee]]. Lee had no dialogue, but hissed to convey Shelob's menace, then made a bubbling noise to suggest the passing of her poison into Frodo. Finally, she made a roaring sound during her fight with Sam to convey her pain when Sam's thrusts found their mark. <br /> <br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Shelob's face.jpg|thumb|right|Shelob's face from [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]].]]<br /> '''2003: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''''<br /> <br /> :Shelob can be seen to have a retractable venomous sting at the rear end between the spinnerets, resembling a wasp's sting. This is very much unlike real spiders which inject venom with their fangs but accurate relative to the novel. Shelob also appears to have a gaping mouth, whereas real spiders can ingest only liquid.<br /> <br /> :In the book, on the other hand, "clusters" of eyes are mentioned, which may suggest compound eyes like those of insects; the Shelob in the movie does ''not'' have compound eyes, which is appropriate. A hunting spider of the family [[wikipedia:Lycosidae|Lycosidae]],{{fact}} which Shelob most closely resembles, would have two large eyes facing forward, and a few smaller ones almost hidden below. The only spiders that can reasonably be said to have "clustered" eyes (though not true compound eyes) are the daddy long-legs spiders of the family Pholcidae, but Shelob does not resemble these rather spindly and fragile spiders in other aspects of her physique.<br /> <br /> '''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'''''<br /> :Shelob is a playable hero for the Goblins faction, and appears in the fifth level of the Evil Campaign, "Mirkwood", where she has apparently joined the [[Mouth of Sauron]] on his mission to take the [[Old Forest Road]]. During the level, Shelob can be used to recruit the Spiders of Mirkwood, as they are her children, and will obey her if she is sent to their nest. She also appears during the final mission, "Rivendell", alongside the other villains.<br /> <br /> '''2014: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'''''<br /> :Though unseen, Shelob is identified in the Appendices as the mother of the Ungol spiders that are encountered throughout Mordor. She is also referred to as the Spider Queen, a title that wasn't given to her in the book. An artefact, a "Crushed Ungol Egg", shows that Shelob initially lived in Mordor itself with Sauron and his servants, until it became apparent that Shelob would disobey Sauron, so he banished her to the pass of Cirith Ungol, and forbade her from laying any more eggs on his land. According to the "Ungol" article in the Appendices, Shelob has taken an interest in the recent events occurring in Mordor, though it is unclear to what extent. <br /> <br /> '''2017: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of War]]'''''<br /> :Shelob is voiced by Pollyanna McIntosh, and plays a prominent role early in the game. This portrayal of Shelob is unique in that she is able to assume a fair form, as a raven-haired woman in a black dress. She can also project visions of the future into a person's mind. She ensnares the wraith of [[Celebrimbor]] and holds him prisoner at the start of the game. She releases him after Talion surrenders their newly-forged Ring of Power to her. After Minas Ithil is conquered by Sauron's forces, the Ringwraiths are sent to seize the Ring from her. After the Nine are driven away, she gives the Ring back to Talion and tells him to forge an army to conquer Mordor.<br /> : Reading her memories, which are found throughout Mordor, reveals a number of details of her life, including a romantic relationship she once had with Sauron.<br /> {{references}}<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> * [[:Category:Images of Shelob|Images of Shelob]]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br /> [[Category:Spirits]]<br /> [[Category:Spiders]]<br /> [[Category:Third Age characters]]<br /> [[Category:Evil]]<br /> <br /> [[de:Kankra]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo/personnages/animaux/araignees/arachne]]<br /> [[fi:Lukitari]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gamgee_family&diff=306266 Talk:Gamgee family 2019-08-21T07:19:28Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>What is the meaning of the word "Longfather" as the title of the family tree? Is it something like a nickname of Samwise, or his family? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 16:02, 8 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> It has to mean 'ancestor, forefather' even if it doesn't seem to appear in the OED. The word is also used in the text:<br /> *'I would have things as they were in all the days of my life,' answered Denethor, 'and in the days of my '''longfathers''' before me: to be the Lord of this City in peace, and leave my chair to a son after me, who would be his own master and no wizard's pupil. But if doom denies this to me, then I will have naught: neither life diminished, nor love halved, nor honour abated.' (The Pyre of Denethor)<br /> *Faramir: 'But since things must now be done otherwise, using the authority of the Steward, I have today brought hither from Rath Dínen the crown of Eärnur the last king, whose days passed in the time of our '''longfathers''' of old.' (The Steward and the King)<br /> Might be Tolkien's own word, perhaps a translation from OE, but I can't find any references. --Tik 06:28, 21 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :My guess is the latter. He liked to backform words from OE and it fits the rural nature of the Gamgees. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:19, 21 August 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=306265 User talk:Ederchil 2019-08-21T07:14:50Z

<p>Ederchil: /* Discrepancies on Arvegil */</p> <hr /> <div>{{usertalk}}<br /> <br /> {| align="right"<br /> | __TOC__<br /> |}<br /> <center><br /> =Archive=<br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br /> = 2017 =<br /> </center><br /> <br /> == Discussion ==<br /> <br /> Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br /> <br /> == Discussions ==<br /> Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaint and Discussions ==<br /> <br /> Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> == About my edit ==<br /> <br /> Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br /> <br /> Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> ::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Battle under the Trees ==<br /> <br /> First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br /> I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br /> <br /> :I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br /> <br /> == What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br /> <br /> No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br /> <br /> As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Limpe ==<br /> <br /> Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br /> <br /> :It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == About my talk page ==<br /> <br /> Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Do not use "Heil". Ever. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::The way I’m using it is a joke tho (it’s a parody)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::That is not a joking matter. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:32, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::::Whatever--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Tolkien Ancestry ==<br /> <br /> Hi!<br /> <br /> I would like to ask if it is possible to update all entries concerning the Tolkien Family history. My research in the Tolkien genealogy has changed a lot in this matter. See for instance here:<br /> <br /> http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/2017/05/john-benjamin-tolkien-1753-1819-summary.html<br /> <br /> Now we are 100% sure that first two Tolkiens in London were brothers, sons of Christian and Anna Euphrosina Tolkien from Petershagen in Gdańsk (German Danzig). The Professor's great-great-grandfather was born in June 1752 and was baptized in St Salvator Lutheran church in Gdańsk. His brother emmigrated in 1766 first to Amsterdam, then in 1770 to London. His younger brother, Johann Benjamin joined him in ca. 1772. Both brothers married the English girls and Daniel became furrie and John Benjamin a clock and watch maker.<br /> <br /> Their father was born in Kreuzburg, East Prussia in 1706. We know also the other generations:<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family from Prussia <br /> (15th-17th c.)|Michel Tolkien (b. ca. 1620, Globuhnen by Kreuzburg, Prussia)|Christianus Tolkien <br /> (1663-1746, Kreuzburg, Kingdom of Prussia)|Christian Tolkien (b. 1706 in Kreuzburg, d. 1791 in Gdańsk, Polish Prussia)= Anna Euphrosina Tolkien, née Bergholtz (1719-1792)|Johann (John) Benjamin Tolkien (b. 1752 in Gdańsk, d. 1819 in London)|George Tolkien (1784-1840)<br /> |John Benjamin Tolkien(1807-1896)|Arthur Reuel Tolkien(1857-1896)|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien(1892-1973)<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family name belongs to a big Prussian family of names with the ending -in, -yn, -ien, -iehn and comes from Tolk-īn 'a descendant of Tolk'. Tolk is a Prussian name meaning 'translator, negotiator'<br /> <br /> The Tolkiens in the 16th-18th centuries lives in East Prussia. You will not find the Tolkiens in Saxony, because it is a Prussian family of medieval roots in the Teutonic State. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :The current text is what Tolkien himself believed to be the origin of his family and family name. He mentioned it multiple times - [[Letter 165]] and [[Letter 324]], for example. He explicitly dismisses the association with Tolk- ("interpreter", "spokesman") in [[Letter 349]]. Even if that blog were true - I'm not saying it isn't - outright removing the current text and replacing it with things that contradict it is not the way to go. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I am sorry. I am not a Wikipedist, I have problems with proper editing in the places like this. I undestrand, Ederchil your position. The clue is that Professor Tolkien couldn't know things we know today. My research is known to the Tolkien family today, it is already accepted by the Tolkien Society (see their website) and is included in the newest "The J.R.R. Tolkien. Companion and Guide". I spent last year in the archives to find the truth about the Tolkien genealogy. Only you know how to enter the information from me into your Tolkien Gateway. Plese, think about including the information about the roots in Gdańsk and East Prussia. And about the alternative etymology of the Tolkien family name. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :I have no problems with including it, as long as it is properly sourced and the current is not removed. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Can you help me with it, Ederchil? As a source you can cite Ch. Scull, W. G. Hammond, "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide" (2017), G 828, 1298. When they publish my article in the "Tolkien Studies" there will be another source for the Tolkien Gateway (I will inform you about the publication). Or you can quote the Tolkien Society website: https://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/biography/<br /> <br /> "The name “Tolkien” (pron.: Tol-keen; equal stress on both syllables) was believed by the family (including Tolkien himself) to be of German origin; Toll-kühn: foolishly brave, or stupidly clever—hence the pseudonym “Oxymore” which he occasionally used; however, this quite probably was a German rationalisation of an originally Baltic Tolkyn, or Tolkīn. In any case, his great-great grandfather John (Johann) Benjamin Tolkien came to Britain with his brother Daniel from Gdańsk in about 1772 and rapidly became thoroughly Anglicised."<br /> <br /> I am very weak as a Wikipedist. I don't understand the language of the coding in here. Please, help me.<br /> <br /> = 2018 =<br /> == Lots of time to learn, my boy ==<br /> <br /> It is clear you bring your own view, only, to this Wiki.<br /> <br /> A moderator's task is to intervene when new users first stray from your narrow course.<br /> <br /> Not after much effort.<br /> <br /> This is clearly habitual.<br /> <br /> Now I see why so many Wiki's exist on this topic.<br /> <br /> Some even allow flexibility and detail.<br /> <br /> You are young and I hope you have the time to really understand Tolkien's great Work.<br /> <br /> There seems to be a lot of Noldor in your ATTITUDE.<br /> <br /> But it's YOUR Wiki, so...<br /> <br /> [[User:Fudoki|Fudoki]] 21:00, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :So much for the skin of Ironfoot. Wait, was the skin of Ironfoot ever mentioned? Guess not. Silly me.<br /> :I admire that you want to help out. But putting in effort does not automatically mean it's a well-written summary of the life of Fingon. It was practically unsalvageable, a jumbled collection of clauses.<br /> :I'm not young by most standards, and I'm more Dwarf than Noldo. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:16, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == "Other" label ==<br /> <br /> You wrote "again, this is not what Other is for" in the Elured and Elurin articles... So I repeat what I asked in the Talk:Elwing page: Given the fact that Eluréd, Elurín and Elwing present some difficulties in being classified in terms of elf/man/half-elf, why not use a neutral label? Despite the name "other", the label is an empty one, the character in question is not put in some list of "strange races" or nothing like that. See [[Falathar]] and companions: they were elves or men, but we don't know exactly what they are, so the "other" label was applied in their articles. If you insist this is wrong, I think a third way should be find, because the "elf" label doesn't seem right to me: Dior was mortal, your sons couldn't be elves. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 19:31, 1 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Those two are three quarters Elf. They're more Elvish than Half-elves. And even Half-elves are still identified by their Elvenness (they're not called Half-men) so giving them a undetermined elf infobox is still better than lumping them with "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: You explore a very subjective line of argumentation, percentage of elvish blood and the word "half-elf"... I don't see why this so personal thinking would be better, instead of a neutral label - "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox" is another subjective vision of yours, nothing in the box says that - or even a “sinda” label, for example... But whatever, I think you had a pet peeve with my editions since the beginning, reverting them and writing hardly nothing, and now have found a new way to continue disagreeing - particularly because this argumentation of yours is a new one, you insisted earlier on restoring the "half-elf" label, and, indeed, you replaced Elurín in the Category:Half-Elves and it still remain so... [[User:Haran|Haran]] 21:07, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Unnecessary block? ==<br /> <br /> What did you block [[User:JaquelineKitchen]] for? She (I'm assuming it is "she") had not done anything wrong...--[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 14:27, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a spambot. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Okay, I understand now. Thanks for expalaining. --[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 13:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB ==<br /> <br /> Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB. Ik heb valide informative toegevoegd. Vervolgens wordt dit verwijderd. Daar heb ik geen zin in. Dan maar niet. {{unsigned|PeterNC}}<br /> <br /> :Er zijn zoveel fans wereldwijd dat we toch enige grenzen moeten stellen. Mensen die boeken of artikelen gepubliceerd hebben krijgen voorrang. <br /> :Ik heb nog geprobeerd om het te herschrijven, maar er was bar weinig aan te doen. Sommige delen waren woord voor woord (en dode link voor dode link) overgenomen van [[Haradrim (Tolkien Society)]] en andere waren niet meer dan reclame. Dat het valide is betekent niet dat wij het in de aangeboden vorm maar moeten gebruiken. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == parabombing what?! ==<br /> <br /> But what the matter with my edits??? They are not vandalism, this is a fact that spiders don't have stingers, if Shelob was born in the First Age, she's obviously several millenia old, and square kilometer converting is also useful for somebody not mastering well Anglo-Saxon metric system. Not every statement needs sourcing, it would be nonsense. [[Special:Contributions/193.54.167.180|193.54.167.180]] 18:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The age needs to be a number. Even if an approximation, it needs to be written out in numbers with the source in a ref and any explanation in a note. <br /> :Is there any source spiders don't have stingers in Middle-earth?<br /> :It's not the "Anglo-Saxon metric system". Or the Imperial system, as it's actually mean (it's not metric). The mentioned measures are the translation convention Tolkien used for the [[Lár]]/league and the [[Ranga]]/yard, and presumably other units of measurement too. A mile in the real world is a third of a league, and that's usually used in analysis of scale, but as the Númenorean reckoning was decimal, one could question whether they had a "mile" equivalent, or if they used tenths of leagues or fifths or something. But miles were the terms Tolkien used. Not kilometers. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure if the term "square mile" is even used. I've removed the comparison of real world countries because this minute difference.<br /> :Parabombing is the wiki practice of plonking a sentence within parentheses in the middle of a paragraph, without regard for what it does for the sentence. If you cannot work it into the section in a natural, readable way, don't add it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:29, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> = 2019 =<br /> ==Spammer Problem and Trying to Fix It==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, I've been trying to restore the infobox on the [[Wizards]] article after [[Special:Contributions/66.203.18.47|66.203.18.47]] spammed it and then restored it to normal, but I can't find the template. Also, I've seen that this user has been consistently spamming and restoring articles, and that is definitely a rotten thing to do. Can you help me? Thank you! -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Also, he completely messed up the entire article, and I've been trying to revert his edits. It's not working, though. -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Never mind, I fixed it, but I'm still concerned about this user. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> :Done. An easy way to fix it is just go to the page's history and edit and save the last version from before the vandalism. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:10, 24 January 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Bedankt voor de hulp(Please excuse my unprofessional Dutch)! I hope I'm not being too much of a pest; that's what happens when a 14-year-old signs up on a Tolkien wiki. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> == Article Image Question ==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, can you look [[Talk:Meriadoc Brandybuck|here]] really quickly and give your opinion on it? Thanks! —{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 00:20, 19 Feb 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Discrepancies on Arvegil ==<br /> <br /> So just how do you propose to acknowledge that the published text of TLotR leaves no room for the birth year or lifespan attributed to Arvegil by "The Heirs of Elendil" to be correct?...letting the latter stand uncontradicted is just unconscionable.[[Special:Contributions/12.144.5.2|12.144.5.2]] 15:57, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :We generally have "Other versions of the Legendarium" as a section header for any out-of-universe information. But that wasn't the only issue. Sources need to be in-line with [[:Category:Citation templates|specific citation templates]], and it should just be a mention of the discrepancy, without a conclusion about its canonicity.<br /> :And you should never start anything with "It should be noted". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hi, I just rewrite the edit, so it fixes the TG style and article structure. I recommend Mr.12.144.5.2 to read TG policy on canonicity before saying what's canon. I leave to the admins to let be my edit or not, as I don't have those book editions, so I can't check them or cite them properly. It should be rewrite anyways, I know my English is not the best, but it took me a while to understand the issue with a whole paragraph in just one sentence. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::That did not address any of the style issues. It was the same text with just a header, no markup or style changes. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::I did the markup and removed some ideas. May the anonymous editor rewrite it if he is so interested, I won't.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:35, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::Removed [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arvegil&curid=1320&diff=306264&oldid=306218 the lot]. The Aragorn comparison wasn't in the original source anyway. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==User name==<br /> Hi, would it be possible to change my username, please? I first wanted to edit a few things, became addicted to edition and now it feels weird seeing my name everywhere. If it's not possible or too difficult, it doesn't matter, I'll keep editing anyways. Thank you very much.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:41, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> :It should be possible, but I'm not sure how. Ask [[User:Mith|Mith]].--{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arvegil&diff=306264 Arvegil 2019-08-21T07:13:17Z

<p>Ederchil: finally had the opportunity to reread everything - the source of the issue here is the comparison to Aragorn, but as that's not actually in the original source it's easier to just remove it. it's needless fluff based on a non-final text</p> <hr /> <div>__NOTOC__<br /> {{arnorian infobox<br /> | name=Arvegil<br /> | image=[[File:Arvegil.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption=Arvegil from ''[[Middle-earth Role Playing]]''<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=<br /> | titles=[[King of Arthedain]]<br /> | position=<br /> | location=[[Arthedain]]<br /> | affiliation=<br /> | language=[[Sindarin]], [[Westron]]<br /> | birth={{TA|1553}}<br /> | birthlocation=<br /> | rule={{TA|1670}} - {{TA|1743|n}}<br /> | death={{TA|1743}}<br /> | deathlocation=<br /> | age=190<br /> | notablefor=<br /> | house=[[House of Isildur]]<br /> | parentage=[[Argeleb II]]<br /> | siblings=<br /> | spouse=<br /> | children=[[Arveleg II]]<br /> | gender=Male<br /> | height=<br /> | hair=<br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=<br /> | steed=<br /> }}<br /> '''Arvegil''' ({{TA|1553}}<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}, p. 194</ref> - {{TA|1743|n}},<ref name="North">{{App|North}}</ref> died aged 190) was the eleventh king of [[Arthedain]], succeeding his father, [[Argeleb II]], upon his death in 1670.<br /> ==History==<br /> During his father's reign, Arvegil saw events that would shape the history of [[Middle-earth]], including the foundation of [[the Shire]]. He was eighty-three years old (no great age for one of the [[Dúnedain]]) when the [[Great Plague]] came out of the south and ravaged [[Eriador]], but the seat of the Kings at [[Fornost]] in the north was little affected.<ref>{{App|Eriador}}</ref><br /> <br /> Arvegil ruled [[Arthedain]] for seventy-three years, and was succeeded by his son, who ruled as [[Arveleg II]], upon his death in {{TA|1743|n}}.<ref name="North"/><br /> <br /> == Etymology ==<br /> '''Arvegil''' is [[Sindarin]] for "Royal Sword" from ''[[Ara|ara-]]'' meaning "royal, king", and ''megil'' (becoming [[Lenition|lenited]] to ''vegil'') meaning "sword". <br /> <br /> == Genealogy ==<br /> {{familytree/start}}<br /> {{familytree | ARA |ARA=[[Araphor]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1589|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARG |ARG=[[Argeleb II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1473|n}} - {{TA|1670|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARV |ARV='''ARVEGIL'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1553|n}} - {{TA|1743|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARV |ARV=[[Arveleg II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1633|n}} - {{TA|1813|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARA |ARA=[[Araval]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1711|n}} - {{TA|1891|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree/end}}<br /> <br /> {{references}}<br /> {{seq-start}}<br /> {{seq-head<br /> | race=arnorian<br /> | house=[[House of Isildur]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br /> | born={{TA|1553}}<br /> | died={{TA|1743}}<br /> }}<br /> {{seq<br /> | prow=2<br /> | prev=[[Argeleb II]]<br /> | list=19th [[Heir of Isildur|Heir]] of [[Isildur]]<br /> | dates={{TA|1670}} - {{TA|1743|n}}<br /> | next=[[Arveleg II]]<br /> | nrow=2<br /> }}<br /> {{seq<br /> | list=11th [[Kings of Arthedain|King of Arthedain]]<br /> | dates={{TA|1670}} - {{TA|1743|n}}<br /> }}<br /> {{seq-end}}{{northernline}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:House of Isildur]]<br /> [[Category:Rulers of Arthedain]]<br /> [[Category:Sindarin names]]<br /> [[Category:Third Age characters]]<br /> [[de:Arvegil]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/dunedain_du_nord/arvegil]]<br /> [[fi:Arvegil]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=306225 User talk:Ederchil 2019-08-19T21:06:29Z

<p>Ederchil: /* Spammer Problem and Trying to Fix It */</p> <hr /> <div>{{usertalk}}<br /> <br /> {| align="right"<br /> | __TOC__<br /> |}<br /> <center><br /> =Archive=<br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br /> = 2017 =<br /> </center><br /> <br /> == Discussion ==<br /> <br /> Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br /> <br /> == Discussions ==<br /> Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaint and Discussions ==<br /> <br /> Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> == About my edit ==<br /> <br /> Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br /> <br /> Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> ::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Battle under the Trees ==<br /> <br /> First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br /> I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br /> <br /> :I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br /> <br /> == What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br /> <br /> No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br /> <br /> As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Limpe ==<br /> <br /> Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br /> <br /> :It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == About my talk page ==<br /> <br /> Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Do not use "Heil". Ever. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::The way I’m using it is a joke tho (it’s a parody)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::That is not a joking matter. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:32, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::::Whatever--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Tolkien Ancestry ==<br /> <br /> Hi!<br /> <br /> I would like to ask if it is possible to update all entries concerning the Tolkien Family history. My research in the Tolkien genealogy has changed a lot in this matter. See for instance here:<br /> <br /> http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/2017/05/john-benjamin-tolkien-1753-1819-summary.html<br /> <br /> Now we are 100% sure that first two Tolkiens in London were brothers, sons of Christian and Anna Euphrosina Tolkien from Petershagen in Gdańsk (German Danzig). The Professor's great-great-grandfather was born in June 1752 and was baptized in St Salvator Lutheran church in Gdańsk. His brother emmigrated in 1766 first to Amsterdam, then in 1770 to London. His younger brother, Johann Benjamin joined him in ca. 1772. Both brothers married the English girls and Daniel became furrie and John Benjamin a clock and watch maker.<br /> <br /> Their father was born in Kreuzburg, East Prussia in 1706. We know also the other generations:<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family from Prussia <br /> (15th-17th c.)|Michel Tolkien (b. ca. 1620, Globuhnen by Kreuzburg, Prussia)|Christianus Tolkien <br /> (1663-1746, Kreuzburg, Kingdom of Prussia)|Christian Tolkien (b. 1706 in Kreuzburg, d. 1791 in Gdańsk, Polish Prussia)= Anna Euphrosina Tolkien, née Bergholtz (1719-1792)|Johann (John) Benjamin Tolkien (b. 1752 in Gdańsk, d. 1819 in London)|George Tolkien (1784-1840)<br /> |John Benjamin Tolkien(1807-1896)|Arthur Reuel Tolkien(1857-1896)|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien(1892-1973)<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family name belongs to a big Prussian family of names with the ending -in, -yn, -ien, -iehn and comes from Tolk-īn 'a descendant of Tolk'. Tolk is a Prussian name meaning 'translator, negotiator'<br /> <br /> The Tolkiens in the 16th-18th centuries lives in East Prussia. You will not find the Tolkiens in Saxony, because it is a Prussian family of medieval roots in the Teutonic State. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :The current text is what Tolkien himself believed to be the origin of his family and family name. He mentioned it multiple times - [[Letter 165]] and [[Letter 324]], for example. He explicitly dismisses the association with Tolk- ("interpreter", "spokesman") in [[Letter 349]]. Even if that blog were true - I'm not saying it isn't - outright removing the current text and replacing it with things that contradict it is not the way to go. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I am sorry. I am not a Wikipedist, I have problems with proper editing in the places like this. I undestrand, Ederchil your position. The clue is that Professor Tolkien couldn't know things we know today. My research is known to the Tolkien family today, it is already accepted by the Tolkien Society (see their website) and is included in the newest "The J.R.R. Tolkien. Companion and Guide". I spent last year in the archives to find the truth about the Tolkien genealogy. Only you know how to enter the information from me into your Tolkien Gateway. Plese, think about including the information about the roots in Gdańsk and East Prussia. And about the alternative etymology of the Tolkien family name. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :I have no problems with including it, as long as it is properly sourced and the current is not removed. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Can you help me with it, Ederchil? As a source you can cite Ch. Scull, W. G. Hammond, "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide" (2017), G 828, 1298. When they publish my article in the "Tolkien Studies" there will be another source for the Tolkien Gateway (I will inform you about the publication). Or you can quote the Tolkien Society website: https://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/biography/<br /> <br /> "The name “Tolkien” (pron.: Tol-keen; equal stress on both syllables) was believed by the family (including Tolkien himself) to be of German origin; Toll-kühn: foolishly brave, or stupidly clever—hence the pseudonym “Oxymore” which he occasionally used; however, this quite probably was a German rationalisation of an originally Baltic Tolkyn, or Tolkīn. In any case, his great-great grandfather John (Johann) Benjamin Tolkien came to Britain with his brother Daniel from Gdańsk in about 1772 and rapidly became thoroughly Anglicised."<br /> <br /> I am very weak as a Wikipedist. I don't understand the language of the coding in here. Please, help me.<br /> <br /> = 2018 =<br /> == Lots of time to learn, my boy ==<br /> <br /> It is clear you bring your own view, only, to this Wiki.<br /> <br /> A moderator's task is to intervene when new users first stray from your narrow course.<br /> <br /> Not after much effort.<br /> <br /> This is clearly habitual.<br /> <br /> Now I see why so many Wiki's exist on this topic.<br /> <br /> Some even allow flexibility and detail.<br /> <br /> You are young and I hope you have the time to really understand Tolkien's great Work.<br /> <br /> There seems to be a lot of Noldor in your ATTITUDE.<br /> <br /> But it's YOUR Wiki, so...<br /> <br /> [[User:Fudoki|Fudoki]] 21:00, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :So much for the skin of Ironfoot. Wait, was the skin of Ironfoot ever mentioned? Guess not. Silly me.<br /> :I admire that you want to help out. But putting in effort does not automatically mean it's a well-written summary of the life of Fingon. It was practically unsalvageable, a jumbled collection of clauses.<br /> :I'm not young by most standards, and I'm more Dwarf than Noldo. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:16, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == "Other" label ==<br /> <br /> You wrote "again, this is not what Other is for" in the Elured and Elurin articles... So I repeat what I asked in the Talk:Elwing page: Given the fact that Eluréd, Elurín and Elwing present some difficulties in being classified in terms of elf/man/half-elf, why not use a neutral label? Despite the name "other", the label is an empty one, the character in question is not put in some list of "strange races" or nothing like that. See [[Falathar]] and companions: they were elves or men, but we don't know exactly what they are, so the "other" label was applied in their articles. If you insist this is wrong, I think a third way should be find, because the "elf" label doesn't seem right to me: Dior was mortal, your sons couldn't be elves. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 19:31, 1 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Those two are three quarters Elf. They're more Elvish than Half-elves. And even Half-elves are still identified by their Elvenness (they're not called Half-men) so giving them a undetermined elf infobox is still better than lumping them with "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: You explore a very subjective line of argumentation, percentage of elvish blood and the word "half-elf"... I don't see why this so personal thinking would be better, instead of a neutral label - "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox" is another subjective vision of yours, nothing in the box says that - or even a “sinda” label, for example... But whatever, I think you had a pet peeve with my editions since the beginning, reverting them and writing hardly nothing, and now have found a new way to continue disagreeing - particularly because this argumentation of yours is a new one, you insisted earlier on restoring the "half-elf" label, and, indeed, you replaced Elurín in the Category:Half-Elves and it still remain so... [[User:Haran|Haran]] 21:07, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Unnecessary block? ==<br /> <br /> What did you block [[User:JaquelineKitchen]] for? She (I'm assuming it is "she") had not done anything wrong...--[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 14:27, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a spambot. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Okay, I understand now. Thanks for expalaining. --[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 13:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB ==<br /> <br /> Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB. Ik heb valide informative toegevoegd. Vervolgens wordt dit verwijderd. Daar heb ik geen zin in. Dan maar niet. {{unsigned|PeterNC}}<br /> <br /> :Er zijn zoveel fans wereldwijd dat we toch enige grenzen moeten stellen. Mensen die boeken of artikelen gepubliceerd hebben krijgen voorrang. <br /> :Ik heb nog geprobeerd om het te herschrijven, maar er was bar weinig aan te doen. Sommige delen waren woord voor woord (en dode link voor dode link) overgenomen van [[Haradrim (Tolkien Society)]] en andere waren niet meer dan reclame. Dat het valide is betekent niet dat wij het in de aangeboden vorm maar moeten gebruiken. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == parabombing what?! ==<br /> <br /> But what the matter with my edits??? They are not vandalism, this is a fact that spiders don't have stingers, if Shelob was born in the First Age, she's obviously several millenia old, and square kilometer converting is also useful for somebody not mastering well Anglo-Saxon metric system. Not every statement needs sourcing, it would be nonsense. [[Special:Contributions/193.54.167.180|193.54.167.180]] 18:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The age needs to be a number. Even if an approximation, it needs to be written out in numbers with the source in a ref and any explanation in a note. <br /> :Is there any source spiders don't have stingers in Middle-earth?<br /> :It's not the "Anglo-Saxon metric system". Or the Imperial system, as it's actually mean (it's not metric). The mentioned measures are the translation convention Tolkien used for the [[Lár]]/league and the [[Ranga]]/yard, and presumably other units of measurement too. A mile in the real world is a third of a league, and that's usually used in analysis of scale, but as the Númenorean reckoning was decimal, one could question whether they had a "mile" equivalent, or if they used tenths of leagues or fifths or something. But miles were the terms Tolkien used. Not kilometers. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure if the term "square mile" is even used. I've removed the comparison of real world countries because this minute difference.<br /> :Parabombing is the wiki practice of plonking a sentence within parentheses in the middle of a paragraph, without regard for what it does for the sentence. If you cannot work it into the section in a natural, readable way, don't add it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:29, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> = 2019 =<br /> ==Spammer Problem and Trying to Fix It==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, I've been trying to restore the infobox on the [[Wizards]] article after [[Special:Contributions/66.203.18.47|66.203.18.47]] spammed it and then restored it to normal, but I can't find the template. Also, I've seen that this user has been consistently spamming and restoring articles, and that is definitely a rotten thing to do. Can you help me? Thank you! -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Also, he completely messed up the entire article, and I've been trying to revert his edits. It's not working, though. -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Never mind, I fixed it, but I'm still concerned about this user. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> :Done. An easy way to fix it is just go to the page's history and edit and save the last version from before the vandalism. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:10, 24 January 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Bedankt voor de hulp(Please excuse my unprofessional Dutch)! I hope I'm not being too much of a pest; that's what happens when a 14-year-old signs up on a Tolkien wiki. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> == Article Image Question ==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, can you look [[Talk:Meriadoc Brandybuck|here]] really quickly and give your opinion on it? Thanks! —{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 00:20, 19 Feb 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Discrepancies on Arvegil ==<br /> <br /> So just how do you propose to acknowledge that the published text of TLotR leaves no room for the birth year or lifespan attributed to Arvegil by "The Heirs of Elendil" to be correct?...letting the latter stand uncontradicted is just unconscionable.[[Special:Contributions/12.144.5.2|12.144.5.2]] 15:57, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :We generally have "Other versions of the Legendarium" as a section header for any out-of-universe information. But that wasn't the only issue. Sources need to be in-line with [[:Category:Citation templates|specific citation templates]], and it should just be a mention of the discrepancy, without a conclusion about its canonicity.<br /> :And you should never start anything with "It should be noted". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hi, I just rewrite the edit, so it fixes the TG style and article structure. I recommend Mr.12.144.5.2 to read TG policy on canonicity before saying what's canon. I leave to the admins to let be my edit or not, as I don't have those book editions, so I can't check them or cite them properly. It should be rewrite anyways, I know my English is not the best, but it took me a while to understand the issue with a whole paragraph in just one sentence. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::That did not address any of the style issues. It was the same text with just a header, no markup or style changes. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::I did the markup and removed some ideas. May the anonymous editor rewrite it if he is so interested, I won't.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:35, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==User name==<br /> Hi, would it be possible to change my username, please? I first wanted to edit a few things, became addicted to edition and now it feels weird seeing my name everywhere. If it's not possible or too difficult, it doesn't matter, I'll keep editing anyways. Thank you very much.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:41, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> :It should be possible, but I'm not sure how. Ask [[User:Mith|Mith]].--{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=306224 User talk:Ederchil 2019-08-19T21:05:56Z

<p>Ederchil: /* Lots of time to learn, my boy */</p> <hr /> <div>{{usertalk}}<br /> <br /> {| align="right"<br /> | __TOC__<br /> |}<br /> <center><br /> =Archive=<br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br /> = 2017 =<br /> </center><br /> <br /> == Discussion ==<br /> <br /> Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br /> <br /> == Discussions ==<br /> Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaint and Discussions ==<br /> <br /> Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> == About my edit ==<br /> <br /> Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br /> <br /> Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> ::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Battle under the Trees ==<br /> <br /> First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br /> I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br /> <br /> :I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br /> <br /> == What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br /> <br /> No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br /> <br /> As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Limpe ==<br /> <br /> Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br /> <br /> :It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == About my talk page ==<br /> <br /> Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Do not use "Heil". Ever. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::The way I’m using it is a joke tho (it’s a parody)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::That is not a joking matter. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:32, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::::Whatever--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Tolkien Ancestry ==<br /> <br /> Hi!<br /> <br /> I would like to ask if it is possible to update all entries concerning the Tolkien Family history. My research in the Tolkien genealogy has changed a lot in this matter. See for instance here:<br /> <br /> http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/2017/05/john-benjamin-tolkien-1753-1819-summary.html<br /> <br /> Now we are 100% sure that first two Tolkiens in London were brothers, sons of Christian and Anna Euphrosina Tolkien from Petershagen in Gdańsk (German Danzig). The Professor's great-great-grandfather was born in June 1752 and was baptized in St Salvator Lutheran church in Gdańsk. His brother emmigrated in 1766 first to Amsterdam, then in 1770 to London. His younger brother, Johann Benjamin joined him in ca. 1772. Both brothers married the English girls and Daniel became furrie and John Benjamin a clock and watch maker.<br /> <br /> Their father was born in Kreuzburg, East Prussia in 1706. We know also the other generations:<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family from Prussia <br /> (15th-17th c.)|Michel Tolkien (b. ca. 1620, Globuhnen by Kreuzburg, Prussia)|Christianus Tolkien <br /> (1663-1746, Kreuzburg, Kingdom of Prussia)|Christian Tolkien (b. 1706 in Kreuzburg, d. 1791 in Gdańsk, Polish Prussia)= Anna Euphrosina Tolkien, née Bergholtz (1719-1792)|Johann (John) Benjamin Tolkien (b. 1752 in Gdańsk, d. 1819 in London)|George Tolkien (1784-1840)<br /> |John Benjamin Tolkien(1807-1896)|Arthur Reuel Tolkien(1857-1896)|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien(1892-1973)<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family name belongs to a big Prussian family of names with the ending -in, -yn, -ien, -iehn and comes from Tolk-īn 'a descendant of Tolk'. Tolk is a Prussian name meaning 'translator, negotiator'<br /> <br /> The Tolkiens in the 16th-18th centuries lives in East Prussia. You will not find the Tolkiens in Saxony, because it is a Prussian family of medieval roots in the Teutonic State. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :The current text is what Tolkien himself believed to be the origin of his family and family name. He mentioned it multiple times - [[Letter 165]] and [[Letter 324]], for example. He explicitly dismisses the association with Tolk- ("interpreter", "spokesman") in [[Letter 349]]. Even if that blog were true - I'm not saying it isn't - outright removing the current text and replacing it with things that contradict it is not the way to go. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I am sorry. I am not a Wikipedist, I have problems with proper editing in the places like this. I undestrand, Ederchil your position. The clue is that Professor Tolkien couldn't know things we know today. My research is known to the Tolkien family today, it is already accepted by the Tolkien Society (see their website) and is included in the newest "The J.R.R. Tolkien. Companion and Guide". I spent last year in the archives to find the truth about the Tolkien genealogy. Only you know how to enter the information from me into your Tolkien Gateway. Plese, think about including the information about the roots in Gdańsk and East Prussia. And about the alternative etymology of the Tolkien family name. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :I have no problems with including it, as long as it is properly sourced and the current is not removed. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Can you help me with it, Ederchil? As a source you can cite Ch. Scull, W. G. Hammond, "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide" (2017), G 828, 1298. When they publish my article in the "Tolkien Studies" there will be another source for the Tolkien Gateway (I will inform you about the publication). Or you can quote the Tolkien Society website: https://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/biography/<br /> <br /> "The name “Tolkien” (pron.: Tol-keen; equal stress on both syllables) was believed by the family (including Tolkien himself) to be of German origin; Toll-kühn: foolishly brave, or stupidly clever—hence the pseudonym “Oxymore” which he occasionally used; however, this quite probably was a German rationalisation of an originally Baltic Tolkyn, or Tolkīn. In any case, his great-great grandfather John (Johann) Benjamin Tolkien came to Britain with his brother Daniel from Gdańsk in about 1772 and rapidly became thoroughly Anglicised."<br /> <br /> I am very weak as a Wikipedist. I don't understand the language of the coding in here. Please, help me.<br /> <br /> = 2018 =<br /> == Lots of time to learn, my boy ==<br /> <br /> It is clear you bring your own view, only, to this Wiki.<br /> <br /> A moderator's task is to intervene when new users first stray from your narrow course.<br /> <br /> Not after much effort.<br /> <br /> This is clearly habitual.<br /> <br /> Now I see why so many Wiki's exist on this topic.<br /> <br /> Some even allow flexibility and detail.<br /> <br /> You are young and I hope you have the time to really understand Tolkien's great Work.<br /> <br /> There seems to be a lot of Noldor in your ATTITUDE.<br /> <br /> But it's YOUR Wiki, so...<br /> <br /> [[User:Fudoki|Fudoki]] 21:00, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :So much for the skin of Ironfoot. Wait, was the skin of Ironfoot ever mentioned? Guess not. Silly me.<br /> :I admire that you want to help out. But putting in effort does not automatically mean it's a well-written summary of the life of Fingon. It was practically unsalvageable, a jumbled collection of clauses.<br /> :I'm not young by most standards, and I'm more Dwarf than Noldo. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:16, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == "Other" label ==<br /> <br /> You wrote "again, this is not what Other is for" in the Elured and Elurin articles... So I repeat what I asked in the Talk:Elwing page: Given the fact that Eluréd, Elurín and Elwing present some difficulties in being classified in terms of elf/man/half-elf, why not use a neutral label? Despite the name "other", the label is an empty one, the character in question is not put in some list of "strange races" or nothing like that. See [[Falathar]] and companions: they were elves or men, but we don't know exactly what they are, so the "other" label was applied in their articles. If you insist this is wrong, I think a third way should be find, because the "elf" label doesn't seem right to me: Dior was mortal, your sons couldn't be elves. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 19:31, 1 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Those two are three quarters Elf. They're more Elvish than Half-elves. And even Half-elves are still identified by their Elvenness (they're not called Half-men) so giving them a undetermined elf infobox is still better than lumping them with "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: You explore a very subjective line of argumentation, percentage of elvish blood and the word "half-elf"... I don't see why this so personal thinking would be better, instead of a neutral label - "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox" is another subjective vision of yours, nothing in the box says that - or even a “sinda” label, for example... But whatever, I think you had a pet peeve with my editions since the beginning, reverting them and writing hardly nothing, and now have found a new way to continue disagreeing - particularly because this argumentation of yours is a new one, you insisted earlier on restoring the "half-elf" label, and, indeed, you replaced Elurín in the Category:Half-Elves and it still remain so... [[User:Haran|Haran]] 21:07, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Unnecessary block? ==<br /> <br /> What did you block [[User:JaquelineKitchen]] for? She (I'm assuming it is "she") had not done anything wrong...--[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 14:27, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a spambot. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Okay, I understand now. Thanks for expalaining. --[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 13:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB ==<br /> <br /> Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB. Ik heb valide informative toegevoegd. Vervolgens wordt dit verwijderd. Daar heb ik geen zin in. Dan maar niet. {{unsigned|PeterNC}}<br /> <br /> :Er zijn zoveel fans wereldwijd dat we toch enige grenzen moeten stellen. Mensen die boeken of artikelen gepubliceerd hebben krijgen voorrang. <br /> :Ik heb nog geprobeerd om het te herschrijven, maar er was bar weinig aan te doen. Sommige delen waren woord voor woord (en dode link voor dode link) overgenomen van [[Haradrim (Tolkien Society)]] en andere waren niet meer dan reclame. Dat het valide is betekent niet dat wij het in de aangeboden vorm maar moeten gebruiken. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == parabombing what?! ==<br /> <br /> But what the matter with my edits??? They are not vandalism, this is a fact that spiders don't have stingers, if Shelob was born in the First Age, she's obviously several millenia old, and square kilometer converting is also useful for somebody not mastering well Anglo-Saxon metric system. Not every statement needs sourcing, it would be nonsense. [[Special:Contributions/193.54.167.180|193.54.167.180]] 18:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The age needs to be a number. Even if an approximation, it needs to be written out in numbers with the source in a ref and any explanation in a note. <br /> :Is there any source spiders don't have stingers in Middle-earth?<br /> :It's not the "Anglo-Saxon metric system". Or the Imperial system, as it's actually mean (it's not metric). The mentioned measures are the translation convention Tolkien used for the [[Lár]]/league and the [[Ranga]]/yard, and presumably other units of measurement too. A mile in the real world is a third of a league, and that's usually used in analysis of scale, but as the Númenorean reckoning was decimal, one could question whether they had a "mile" equivalent, or if they used tenths of leagues or fifths or something. But miles were the terms Tolkien used. Not kilometers. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure if the term "square mile" is even used. I've removed the comparison of real world countries because this minute difference.<br /> :Parabombing is the wiki practice of plonking a sentence within parentheses in the middle of a paragraph, without regard for what it does for the sentence. If you cannot work it into the section in a natural, readable way, don't add it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:29, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Spammer Problem and Trying to Fix It==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, I've been trying to restore the infobox on the [[Wizards]] article after [[Special:Contributions/66.203.18.47|66.203.18.47]] spammed it and then restored it to normal, but I can't find the template. Also, I've seen that this user has been consistently spamming and restoring articles, and that is definitely a rotten thing to do. Can you help me? Thank you! -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Also, he completely messed up the entire article, and I've been trying to revert his edits. It's not working, though. -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Never mind, I fixed it, but I'm still concerned about this user. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> :Done. An easy way to fix it is just go to the page's history and edit and save the last version from before the vandalism. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:10, 24 January 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Bedankt voor de hulp(Please excuse my unprofessional Dutch)! I hope I'm not being too much of a pest; that's what happens when a 14-year-old signs up on a Tolkien wiki. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> == Article Image Question ==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, can you look [[Talk:Meriadoc Brandybuck|here]] really quickly and give your opinion on it? Thanks! —{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 00:20, 19 Feb 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Discrepancies on Arvegil ==<br /> <br /> So just how do you propose to acknowledge that the published text of TLotR leaves no room for the birth year or lifespan attributed to Arvegil by "The Heirs of Elendil" to be correct?...letting the latter stand uncontradicted is just unconscionable.[[Special:Contributions/12.144.5.2|12.144.5.2]] 15:57, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :We generally have "Other versions of the Legendarium" as a section header for any out-of-universe information. But that wasn't the only issue. Sources need to be in-line with [[:Category:Citation templates|specific citation templates]], and it should just be a mention of the discrepancy, without a conclusion about its canonicity.<br /> :And you should never start anything with "It should be noted". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hi, I just rewrite the edit, so it fixes the TG style and article structure. I recommend Mr.12.144.5.2 to read TG policy on canonicity before saying what's canon. I leave to the admins to let be my edit or not, as I don't have those book editions, so I can't check them or cite them properly. It should be rewrite anyways, I know my English is not the best, but it took me a while to understand the issue with a whole paragraph in just one sentence. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::That did not address any of the style issues. It was the same text with just a header, no markup or style changes. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::I did the markup and removed some ideas. May the anonymous editor rewrite it if he is so interested, I won't.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:35, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==User name==<br /> Hi, would it be possible to change my username, please? I first wanted to edit a few things, became addicted to edition and now it feels weird seeing my name everywhere. If it's not possible or too difficult, it doesn't matter, I'll keep editing anyways. Thank you very much.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:41, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> :It should be possible, but I'm not sure how. Ask [[User:Mith|Mith]].--{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=306223 User talk:Ederchil 2019-08-19T21:04:10Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{usertalk}}<br /> <br /> {| align="right"<br /> | __TOC__<br /> |}<br /> <center><br /> =Archive=<br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br /> = 2017 =<br /> </center><br /> <br /> == Discussion ==<br /> <br /> Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br /> <br /> == Discussions ==<br /> Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaint and Discussions ==<br /> <br /> Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> == About my edit ==<br /> <br /> Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br /> <br /> Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> ::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Battle under the Trees ==<br /> <br /> First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br /> I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br /> <br /> :I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br /> <br /> == What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br /> <br /> No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br /> <br /> As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Limpe ==<br /> <br /> Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br /> <br /> :It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == About my talk page ==<br /> <br /> Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Do not use "Heil". Ever. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::The way I’m using it is a joke tho (it’s a parody)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::That is not a joking matter. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:32, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::::Whatever--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Tolkien Ancestry ==<br /> <br /> Hi!<br /> <br /> I would like to ask if it is possible to update all entries concerning the Tolkien Family history. My research in the Tolkien genealogy has changed a lot in this matter. See for instance here:<br /> <br /> http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/2017/05/john-benjamin-tolkien-1753-1819-summary.html<br /> <br /> Now we are 100% sure that first two Tolkiens in London were brothers, sons of Christian and Anna Euphrosina Tolkien from Petershagen in Gdańsk (German Danzig). The Professor's great-great-grandfather was born in June 1752 and was baptized in St Salvator Lutheran church in Gdańsk. His brother emmigrated in 1766 first to Amsterdam, then in 1770 to London. His younger brother, Johann Benjamin joined him in ca. 1772. Both brothers married the English girls and Daniel became furrie and John Benjamin a clock and watch maker.<br /> <br /> Their father was born in Kreuzburg, East Prussia in 1706. We know also the other generations:<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family from Prussia <br /> (15th-17th c.)|Michel Tolkien (b. ca. 1620, Globuhnen by Kreuzburg, Prussia)|Christianus Tolkien <br /> (1663-1746, Kreuzburg, Kingdom of Prussia)|Christian Tolkien (b. 1706 in Kreuzburg, d. 1791 in Gdańsk, Polish Prussia)= Anna Euphrosina Tolkien, née Bergholtz (1719-1792)|Johann (John) Benjamin Tolkien (b. 1752 in Gdańsk, d. 1819 in London)|George Tolkien (1784-1840)<br /> |John Benjamin Tolkien(1807-1896)|Arthur Reuel Tolkien(1857-1896)|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien(1892-1973)<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family name belongs to a big Prussian family of names with the ending -in, -yn, -ien, -iehn and comes from Tolk-īn 'a descendant of Tolk'. Tolk is a Prussian name meaning 'translator, negotiator'<br /> <br /> The Tolkiens in the 16th-18th centuries lives in East Prussia. You will not find the Tolkiens in Saxony, because it is a Prussian family of medieval roots in the Teutonic State. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :The current text is what Tolkien himself believed to be the origin of his family and family name. He mentioned it multiple times - [[Letter 165]] and [[Letter 324]], for example. He explicitly dismisses the association with Tolk- ("interpreter", "spokesman") in [[Letter 349]]. Even if that blog were true - I'm not saying it isn't - outright removing the current text and replacing it with things that contradict it is not the way to go. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I am sorry. I am not a Wikipedist, I have problems with proper editing in the places like this. I undestrand, Ederchil your position. The clue is that Professor Tolkien couldn't know things we know today. My research is known to the Tolkien family today, it is already accepted by the Tolkien Society (see their website) and is included in the newest "The J.R.R. Tolkien. Companion and Guide". I spent last year in the archives to find the truth about the Tolkien genealogy. Only you know how to enter the information from me into your Tolkien Gateway. Plese, think about including the information about the roots in Gdańsk and East Prussia. And about the alternative etymology of the Tolkien family name. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :I have no problems with including it, as long as it is properly sourced and the current is not removed. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Can you help me with it, Ederchil? As a source you can cite Ch. Scull, W. G. Hammond, "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide" (2017), G 828, 1298. When they publish my article in the "Tolkien Studies" there will be another source for the Tolkien Gateway (I will inform you about the publication). Or you can quote the Tolkien Society website: https://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/biography/<br /> <br /> "The name “Tolkien” (pron.: Tol-keen; equal stress on both syllables) was believed by the family (including Tolkien himself) to be of German origin; Toll-kühn: foolishly brave, or stupidly clever—hence the pseudonym “Oxymore” which he occasionally used; however, this quite probably was a German rationalisation of an originally Baltic Tolkyn, or Tolkīn. In any case, his great-great grandfather John (Johann) Benjamin Tolkien came to Britain with his brother Daniel from Gdańsk in about 1772 and rapidly became thoroughly Anglicised."<br /> <br /> I am very weak as a Wikipedist. I don't understand the language of the coding in here. Please, help me.<br /> <br /> == Lots of time to learn, my boy ==<br /> <br /> It is clear you bring your own view, only, to this Wiki.<br /> <br /> A moderator's task is to intervene when new users first stray from your narrow course.<br /> <br /> Not after much effort.<br /> <br /> This is clearly habitual.<br /> <br /> Now I see why so many Wiki's exist on this topic.<br /> <br /> Some even allow flexibility and detail.<br /> <br /> You are young and I hope you have the time to really understand Tolkien's great Work.<br /> <br /> There seems to be a lot of Noldor in your ATTITUDE.<br /> <br /> But it's YOUR Wiki, so...<br /> <br /> [[User:Fudoki|Fudoki]] 21:00, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :So much for the skin of Ironfoot. Wait, was the skin of Ironfoot ever mentioned? Guess not. Silly me.<br /> :I admire that you want to help out. But putting in effort does not automatically mean it's a well-written summary of the life of Fingon. It was practically unsalvageable, a jumbled collection of clauses.<br /> :I'm not young by most standards, and I'm more Dwarf than Noldo. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:16, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == "Other" label ==<br /> <br /> You wrote "again, this is not what Other is for" in the Elured and Elurin articles... So I repeat what I asked in the Talk:Elwing page: Given the fact that Eluréd, Elurín and Elwing present some difficulties in being classified in terms of elf/man/half-elf, why not use a neutral label? Despite the name "other", the label is an empty one, the character in question is not put in some list of "strange races" or nothing like that. See [[Falathar]] and companions: they were elves or men, but we don't know exactly what they are, so the "other" label was applied in their articles. If you insist this is wrong, I think a third way should be find, because the "elf" label doesn't seem right to me: Dior was mortal, your sons couldn't be elves. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 19:31, 1 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Those two are three quarters Elf. They're more Elvish than Half-elves. And even Half-elves are still identified by their Elvenness (they're not called Half-men) so giving them a undetermined elf infobox is still better than lumping them with "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: You explore a very subjective line of argumentation, percentage of elvish blood and the word "half-elf"... I don't see why this so personal thinking would be better, instead of a neutral label - "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox" is another subjective vision of yours, nothing in the box says that - or even a “sinda” label, for example... But whatever, I think you had a pet peeve with my editions since the beginning, reverting them and writing hardly nothing, and now have found a new way to continue disagreeing - particularly because this argumentation of yours is a new one, you insisted earlier on restoring the "half-elf" label, and, indeed, you replaced Elurín in the Category:Half-Elves and it still remain so... [[User:Haran|Haran]] 21:07, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Unnecessary block? ==<br /> <br /> What did you block [[User:JaquelineKitchen]] for? She (I'm assuming it is "she") had not done anything wrong...--[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 14:27, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a spambot. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Okay, I understand now. Thanks for expalaining. --[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 13:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB ==<br /> <br /> Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB. Ik heb valide informative toegevoegd. Vervolgens wordt dit verwijderd. Daar heb ik geen zin in. Dan maar niet. {{unsigned|PeterNC}}<br /> <br /> :Er zijn zoveel fans wereldwijd dat we toch enige grenzen moeten stellen. Mensen die boeken of artikelen gepubliceerd hebben krijgen voorrang. <br /> :Ik heb nog geprobeerd om het te herschrijven, maar er was bar weinig aan te doen. Sommige delen waren woord voor woord (en dode link voor dode link) overgenomen van [[Haradrim (Tolkien Society)]] en andere waren niet meer dan reclame. Dat het valide is betekent niet dat wij het in de aangeboden vorm maar moeten gebruiken. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == parabombing what?! ==<br /> <br /> But what the matter with my edits??? They are not vandalism, this is a fact that spiders don't have stingers, if Shelob was born in the First Age, she's obviously several millenia old, and square kilometer converting is also useful for somebody not mastering well Anglo-Saxon metric system. Not every statement needs sourcing, it would be nonsense. [[Special:Contributions/193.54.167.180|193.54.167.180]] 18:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The age needs to be a number. Even if an approximation, it needs to be written out in numbers with the source in a ref and any explanation in a note. <br /> :Is there any source spiders don't have stingers in Middle-earth?<br /> :It's not the "Anglo-Saxon metric system". Or the Imperial system, as it's actually mean (it's not metric). The mentioned measures are the translation convention Tolkien used for the [[Lár]]/league and the [[Ranga]]/yard, and presumably other units of measurement too. A mile in the real world is a third of a league, and that's usually used in analysis of scale, but as the Númenorean reckoning was decimal, one could question whether they had a "mile" equivalent, or if they used tenths of leagues or fifths or something. But miles were the terms Tolkien used. Not kilometers. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure if the term "square mile" is even used. I've removed the comparison of real world countries because this minute difference.<br /> :Parabombing is the wiki practice of plonking a sentence within parentheses in the middle of a paragraph, without regard for what it does for the sentence. If you cannot work it into the section in a natural, readable way, don't add it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:29, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Spammer Problem and Trying to Fix It==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, I've been trying to restore the infobox on the [[Wizards]] article after [[Special:Contributions/66.203.18.47|66.203.18.47]] spammed it and then restored it to normal, but I can't find the template. Also, I've seen that this user has been consistently spamming and restoring articles, and that is definitely a rotten thing to do. Can you help me? Thank you! -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Also, he completely messed up the entire article, and I've been trying to revert his edits. It's not working, though. -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Never mind, I fixed it, but I'm still concerned about this user. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> :Done. An easy way to fix it is just go to the page's history and edit and save the last version from before the vandalism. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:10, 24 January 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Bedankt voor de hulp(Please excuse my unprofessional Dutch)! I hope I'm not being too much of a pest; that's what happens when a 14-year-old signs up on a Tolkien wiki. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> == Article Image Question ==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, can you look [[Talk:Meriadoc Brandybuck|here]] really quickly and give your opinion on it? Thanks! —{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 00:20, 19 Feb 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Discrepancies on Arvegil ==<br /> <br /> So just how do you propose to acknowledge that the published text of TLotR leaves no room for the birth year or lifespan attributed to Arvegil by "The Heirs of Elendil" to be correct?...letting the latter stand uncontradicted is just unconscionable.[[Special:Contributions/12.144.5.2|12.144.5.2]] 15:57, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :We generally have "Other versions of the Legendarium" as a section header for any out-of-universe information. But that wasn't the only issue. Sources need to be in-line with [[:Category:Citation templates|specific citation templates]], and it should just be a mention of the discrepancy, without a conclusion about its canonicity.<br /> :And you should never start anything with "It should be noted". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hi, I just rewrite the edit, so it fixes the TG style and article structure. I recommend Mr.12.144.5.2 to read TG policy on canonicity before saying what's canon. I leave to the admins to let be my edit or not, as I don't have those book editions, so I can't check them or cite them properly. It should be rewrite anyways, I know my English is not the best, but it took me a while to understand the issue with a whole paragraph in just one sentence. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::That did not address any of the style issues. It was the same text with just a header, no markup or style changes. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::I did the markup and removed some ideas. May the anonymous editor rewrite it if he is so interested, I won't.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:35, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==User name==<br /> Hi, would it be possible to change my username, please? I first wanted to edit a few things, became addicted to edition and now it feels weird seeing my name everywhere. If it's not possible or too difficult, it doesn't matter, I'll keep editing anyways. Thank you very much.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:41, 19 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> :It should be possible, but I'm not sure how. Ask [[User:Mith|Mith]].--{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arvegil&diff=306218 Arvegil 2019-08-19T20:21:46Z

<p>Ederchil: quick rewrite, rmv speculation and wank</p> <hr /> <div>__NOTOC__<br /> {{arnorian infobox<br /> | name=Arvegil<br /> | image=[[File:Arvegil.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption=Arvegil from ''[[Middle-earth Role Playing]]''<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=<br /> | titles=[[King of Arthedain]]<br /> | position=<br /> | location=[[Arthedain]]<br /> | affiliation=<br /> | language=[[Sindarin]], [[Westron]]<br /> | birth={{TA|1553}}<br /> | birthlocation=<br /> | rule={{TA|1670}} - {{TA|1743|n}}<br /> | death={{TA|1743}}<br /> | deathlocation=<br /> | age=190<br /> | notablefor=<br /> | house=[[House of Isildur]]<br /> | parentage=[[Argeleb II]]<br /> | siblings=<br /> | spouse=<br /> | children=[[Arveleg II]]<br /> | gender=Male<br /> | height=<br /> | hair=<br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=<br /> | steed=<br /> }}<br /> '''Arvegil''' ({{TA|1553}}<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}, p. 194</ref> - {{TA|1743|n}},<ref name="North">{{App|North}}</ref> died aged 190) was the eleventh king of [[Arthedain]], succeeding his father, [[Argeleb II]], upon his death in 1670.<br /> ==History==<br /> During his father's reign, Arvegil saw events that would shape the history of [[Middle-earth]], including the foundation of [[the Shire]]. He was eighty-three years old (no great age for one of the [[Dúnedain]]) when the [[Great Plague]] came out of the south and ravaged [[Eriador]], but the seat of the Kings at [[Fornost]] in the north was little affected.<ref>{{App|Eriador}}</ref><br /> <br /> Arvegil lived for one hundred and ninety years, longer than any of his descendants until [[Aragorn]].<ref>{{PM|Ai}}</ref> By the standards of his own ancestors, though, this was an early death. Of all the northern Kings before Arvegil - excepting those slain in battle - only two had lived less than two hundred years: his father [[Argeleb II]] and his grandfather [[Araphor]].<br /> <br /> Arvegil ruled [[Arthedain]] for seventy-three years, and was succeeded by his son, who ruled as [[Arveleg II]], upon his death in {{TA|1743|n}}.<ref name="North"/><br /> <br /> == Etymology ==<br /> '''Arvegil''' is [[Sindarin]] for "Royal Sword" from ''[[Ara|ara-]]'' meaning "royal, king", and ''megil'' (becoming [[Lenition|lenited]] to ''vegil'') meaning "sword". <br /> <br /> == Genealogy ==<br /> {{familytree/start}}<br /> {{familytree | ARA |ARA=[[Araphor]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1589|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARG |ARG=[[Argeleb II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1473|n}} - {{TA|1670|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARV |ARV='''ARVEGIL'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1553|n}} - {{TA|1743|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARV |ARV=[[Arveleg II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1633|n}} - {{TA|1813|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARA |ARA=[[Araval]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1711|n}} - {{TA|1891|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree/end}}<br /> <br /> ==Other versions of the Legendarium==<br /> In post-1993 revisions of [[Appendix A]], Aragorn's year of death is amended from Fo.A. 100 to {{FoA|120}}, making him 210 years old. The reference to him being the longest-lived of his line since Arvegil is not changed, even though with this change in the chronology, Aragorn would be older than Arvegil.<br /> <br /> {{references}}<br /> {{seq-start}}<br /> {{seq-head<br /> | race=arnorian<br /> | house=[[House of Isildur]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br /> | born={{TA|1553}}<br /> | died={{TA|1743}}<br /> }}<br /> {{seq<br /> | prow=2<br /> | prev=[[Argeleb II]]<br /> | list=19th [[Heir of Isildur|Heir]] of [[Isildur]]<br /> | dates={{TA|1670}} - {{TA|1743|n}}<br /> | next=[[Arveleg II]]<br /> | nrow=2<br /> }}<br /> {{seq<br /> | list=11th [[Kings of Arthedain|King of Arthedain]]<br /> | dates={{TA|1670}} - {{TA|1743|n}}<br /> }}<br /> {{seq-end}}{{northernline}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:House of Isildur]]<br /> [[Category:Rulers of Arthedain]]<br /> [[Category:Sindarin names]]<br /> [[Category:Third Age characters]]<br /> [[de:Arvegil]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/dunedain_du_nord/arvegil]]<br /> [[fi:Arvegil]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=306217 User talk:Ederchil 2019-08-19T20:17:40Z

<p>Ederchil: /* Discrepancies on Arvegil */</p> <hr /> <div>{{usertalk}}<br /> <br /> {| align="right"<br /> | __TOC__<br /> |}<br /> <center><br /> =Archive=<br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br /> = 2017 =<br /> </center><br /> <br /> == Discussion ==<br /> <br /> Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br /> <br /> == Discussions ==<br /> Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaint and Discussions ==<br /> <br /> Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> == About my edit ==<br /> <br /> Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br /> <br /> Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> ::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Battle under the Trees ==<br /> <br /> First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br /> I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br /> <br /> :I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br /> <br /> == What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br /> <br /> No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br /> <br /> As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Limpe ==<br /> <br /> Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br /> <br /> :It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == About my talk page ==<br /> <br /> Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Do not use "Heil". Ever. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::The way I’m using it is a joke tho (it’s a parody)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::That is not a joking matter. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:32, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::::Whatever--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Tolkien Ancestry ==<br /> <br /> Hi!<br /> <br /> I would like to ask if it is possible to update all entries concerning the Tolkien Family history. My research in the Tolkien genealogy has changed a lot in this matter. See for instance here:<br /> <br /> http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/2017/05/john-benjamin-tolkien-1753-1819-summary.html<br /> <br /> Now we are 100% sure that first two Tolkiens in London were brothers, sons of Christian and Anna Euphrosina Tolkien from Petershagen in Gdańsk (German Danzig). The Professor's great-great-grandfather was born in June 1752 and was baptized in St Salvator Lutheran church in Gdańsk. His brother emmigrated in 1766 first to Amsterdam, then in 1770 to London. His younger brother, Johann Benjamin joined him in ca. 1772. Both brothers married the English girls and Daniel became furrie and John Benjamin a clock and watch maker.<br /> <br /> Their father was born in Kreuzburg, East Prussia in 1706. We know also the other generations:<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family from Prussia <br /> (15th-17th c.)|Michel Tolkien (b. ca. 1620, Globuhnen by Kreuzburg, Prussia)|Christianus Tolkien <br /> (1663-1746, Kreuzburg, Kingdom of Prussia)|Christian Tolkien (b. 1706 in Kreuzburg, d. 1791 in Gdańsk, Polish Prussia)= Anna Euphrosina Tolkien, née Bergholtz (1719-1792)|Johann (John) Benjamin Tolkien (b. 1752 in Gdańsk, d. 1819 in London)|George Tolkien (1784-1840)<br /> |John Benjamin Tolkien(1807-1896)|Arthur Reuel Tolkien(1857-1896)|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien(1892-1973)<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family name belongs to a big Prussian family of names with the ending -in, -yn, -ien, -iehn and comes from Tolk-īn 'a descendant of Tolk'. Tolk is a Prussian name meaning 'translator, negotiator'<br /> <br /> The Tolkiens in the 16th-18th centuries lives in East Prussia. You will not find the Tolkiens in Saxony, because it is a Prussian family of medieval roots in the Teutonic State. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :The current text is what Tolkien himself believed to be the origin of his family and family name. He mentioned it multiple times - [[Letter 165]] and [[Letter 324]], for example. He explicitly dismisses the association with Tolk- ("interpreter", "spokesman") in [[Letter 349]]. Even if that blog were true - I'm not saying it isn't - outright removing the current text and replacing it with things that contradict it is not the way to go. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I am sorry. I am not a Wikipedist, I have problems with proper editing in the places like this. I undestrand, Ederchil your position. The clue is that Professor Tolkien couldn't know things we know today. My research is known to the Tolkien family today, it is already accepted by the Tolkien Society (see their website) and is included in the newest "The J.R.R. Tolkien. Companion and Guide". I spent last year in the archives to find the truth about the Tolkien genealogy. Only you know how to enter the information from me into your Tolkien Gateway. Plese, think about including the information about the roots in Gdańsk and East Prussia. And about the alternative etymology of the Tolkien family name. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :I have no problems with including it, as long as it is properly sourced and the current is not removed. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Can you help me with it, Ederchil? As a source you can cite Ch. Scull, W. G. Hammond, "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide" (2017), G 828, 1298. When they publish my article in the "Tolkien Studies" there will be another source for the Tolkien Gateway (I will inform you about the publication). Or you can quote the Tolkien Society website: https://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/biography/<br /> <br /> "The name “Tolkien” (pron.: Tol-keen; equal stress on both syllables) was believed by the family (including Tolkien himself) to be of German origin; Toll-kühn: foolishly brave, or stupidly clever—hence the pseudonym “Oxymore” which he occasionally used; however, this quite probably was a German rationalisation of an originally Baltic Tolkyn, or Tolkīn. In any case, his great-great grandfather John (Johann) Benjamin Tolkien came to Britain with his brother Daniel from Gdańsk in about 1772 and rapidly became thoroughly Anglicised."<br /> <br /> I am very weak as a Wikipedist. I don't understand the language of the coding in here. Please, help me.<br /> <br /> == Lots of time to learn, my boy ==<br /> <br /> It is clear you bring your own view, only, to this Wiki.<br /> <br /> A moderator's task is to intervene when new users first stray from your narrow course.<br /> <br /> Not after much effort.<br /> <br /> This is clearly habitual.<br /> <br /> Now I see why so many Wiki's exist on this topic.<br /> <br /> Some even allow flexibility and detail.<br /> <br /> You are young and I hope you have the time to really understand Tolkien's great Work.<br /> <br /> There seems to be a lot of Noldor in your ATTITUDE.<br /> <br /> But it's YOUR Wiki, so...<br /> <br /> [[User:Fudoki|Fudoki]] 21:00, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :So much for the skin of Ironfoot. Wait, was the skin of Ironfoot ever mentioned? Guess not. Silly me.<br /> :I admire that you want to help out. But putting in effort does not automatically mean it's a well-written summary of the life of Fingon. It was practically unsalvageable, a jumbled collection of clauses.<br /> :I'm not young by most standards, and I'm more Dwarf than Noldo. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:16, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == "Other" label ==<br /> <br /> You wrote "again, this is not what Other is for" in the Elured and Elurin articles... So I repeat what I asked in the Talk:Elwing page: Given the fact that Eluréd, Elurín and Elwing present some difficulties in being classified in terms of elf/man/half-elf, why not use a neutral label? Despite the name "other", the label is an empty one, the character in question is not put in some list of "strange races" or nothing like that. See [[Falathar]] and companions: they were elves or men, but we don't know exactly what they are, so the "other" label was applied in their articles. If you insist this is wrong, I think a third way should be find, because the "elf" label doesn't seem right to me: Dior was mortal, your sons couldn't be elves. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 19:31, 1 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Those two are three quarters Elf. They're more Elvish than Half-elves. And even Half-elves are still identified by their Elvenness (they're not called Half-men) so giving them a undetermined elf infobox is still better than lumping them with "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: You explore a very subjective line of argumentation, percentage of elvish blood and the word "half-elf"... I don't see why this so personal thinking would be better, instead of a neutral label - "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox" is another subjective vision of yours, nothing in the box says that - or even a “sinda” label, for example... But whatever, I think you had a pet peeve with my editions since the beginning, reverting them and writing hardly nothing, and now have found a new way to continue disagreeing - particularly because this argumentation of yours is a new one, you insisted earlier on restoring the "half-elf" label, and, indeed, you replaced Elurín in the Category:Half-Elves and it still remain so... [[User:Haran|Haran]] 21:07, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Unnecessary block? ==<br /> <br /> What did you block [[User:JaquelineKitchen]] for? She (I'm assuming it is "she") had not done anything wrong...--[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 14:27, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a spambot. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Okay, I understand now. Thanks for expalaining. --[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 13:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB ==<br /> <br /> Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB. Ik heb valide informative toegevoegd. Vervolgens wordt dit verwijderd. Daar heb ik geen zin in. Dan maar niet. {{unsigned|PeterNC}}<br /> <br /> :Er zijn zoveel fans wereldwijd dat we toch enige grenzen moeten stellen. Mensen die boeken of artikelen gepubliceerd hebben krijgen voorrang. <br /> :Ik heb nog geprobeerd om het te herschrijven, maar er was bar weinig aan te doen. Sommige delen waren woord voor woord (en dode link voor dode link) overgenomen van [[Haradrim (Tolkien Society)]] en andere waren niet meer dan reclame. Dat het valide is betekent niet dat wij het in de aangeboden vorm maar moeten gebruiken. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == parabombing what?! ==<br /> <br /> But what the matter with my edits??? They are not vandalism, this is a fact that spiders don't have stingers, if Shelob was born in the First Age, she's obviously several millenia old, and square kilometer converting is also useful for somebody not mastering well Anglo-Saxon metric system. Not every statement needs sourcing, it would be nonsense. [[Special:Contributions/193.54.167.180|193.54.167.180]] 18:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The age needs to be a number. Even if an approximation, it needs to be written out in numbers with the source in a ref and any explanation in a note. <br /> :Is there any source spiders don't have stingers in Middle-earth?<br /> :It's not the "Anglo-Saxon metric system". Or the Imperial system, as it's actually mean (it's not metric). The mentioned measures are the translation convention Tolkien used for the [[Lár]]/league and the [[Ranga]]/yard, and presumably other units of measurement too. A mile in the real world is a third of a league, and that's usually used in analysis of scale, but as the Númenorean reckoning was decimal, one could question whether they had a "mile" equivalent, or if they used tenths of leagues or fifths or something. But miles were the terms Tolkien used. Not kilometers. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure if the term "square mile" is even used. I've removed the comparison of real world countries because this minute difference.<br /> :Parabombing is the wiki practice of plonking a sentence within parentheses in the middle of a paragraph, without regard for what it does for the sentence. If you cannot work it into the section in a natural, readable way, don't add it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:29, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Spammer Problem and Trying to Fix It==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, I've been trying to restore the infobox on the [[Wizards]] article after [[Special:Contributions/66.203.18.47|66.203.18.47]] spammed it and then restored it to normal, but I can't find the template. Also, I've seen that this user has been consistently spamming and restoring articles, and that is definitely a rotten thing to do. Can you help me? Thank you! -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Also, he completely messed up the entire article, and I've been trying to revert his edits. It's not working, though. -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Never mind, I fixed it, but I'm still concerned about this user. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> :Done. An easy way to fix it is just go to the page's history and edit and save the last version from before the vandalism. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:10, 24 January 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Bedankt voor de hulp(Please excuse my unprofessional Dutch)! I hope I'm not being too much of a pest; that's what happens when a 14-year-old signs up on a Tolkien wiki. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> == Article Image Question ==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, can you look [[Talk:Meriadoc Brandybuck|here]] really quickly and give your opinion on it? Thanks! —{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 00:20, 19 Feb 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Discrepancies on Arvegil ==<br /> <br /> So just how do you propose to acknowledge that the published text of TLotR leaves no room for the birth year or lifespan attributed to Arvegil by "The Heirs of Elendil" to be correct?...letting the latter stand uncontradicted is just unconscionable.[[Special:Contributions/12.144.5.2|12.144.5.2]] 15:57, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :We generally have "Other versions of the Legendarium" as a section header for any out-of-universe information. But that wasn't the only issue. Sources need to be in-line with [[:Category:Citation templates|specific citation templates]], and it should just be a mention of the discrepancy, without a conclusion about its canonicity.<br /> :And you should never start anything with "It should be noted". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hi, I just rewrite the edit, so it fixes the TG style and article structure. I recommend Mr.12.144.5.2 to read TG policy on canonicity before saying what's canon. I leave to the admins to let be my edit or not, as I don't have those book editions, so I can't check them or cite them properly. It should be rewrite anyways, I know my English is not the best, but it took me a while to understand the issue with a whole paragraph in just one sentence. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::That did not address any of the style issues. It was the same text with just a header, no markup or style changes. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=306203 User talk:Ederchil 2019-08-18T17:51:01Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{usertalk}}<br /> <br /> {| align="right"<br /> | __TOC__<br /> |}<br /> <center><br /> =Archive=<br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br /> '''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br /> = 2017 =<br /> </center><br /> <br /> == Discussion ==<br /> <br /> Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br /> <br /> == Discussions ==<br /> Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Complaint and Discussions ==<br /> <br /> Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> :I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br /> <br /> == About my edit ==<br /> <br /> Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br /> <br /> Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> ::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Battle under the Trees ==<br /> <br /> First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br /> I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br /> <br /> :I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br /> <br /> == What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br /> <br /> No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br /> <br /> As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br /> <br /> <br /> :::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Limpe ==<br /> <br /> Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br /> <br /> :It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == About my talk page ==<br /> <br /> Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Do not use "Heil". Ever. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::The way I’m using it is a joke tho (it’s a parody)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::::That is not a joking matter. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:32, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::::Whatever--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Tolkien Ancestry ==<br /> <br /> Hi!<br /> <br /> I would like to ask if it is possible to update all entries concerning the Tolkien Family history. My research in the Tolkien genealogy has changed a lot in this matter. See for instance here:<br /> <br /> http://tolkniety.blogspot.com/2017/05/john-benjamin-tolkien-1753-1819-summary.html<br /> <br /> Now we are 100% sure that first two Tolkiens in London were brothers, sons of Christian and Anna Euphrosina Tolkien from Petershagen in Gdańsk (German Danzig). The Professor's great-great-grandfather was born in June 1752 and was baptized in St Salvator Lutheran church in Gdańsk. His brother emmigrated in 1766 first to Amsterdam, then in 1770 to London. His younger brother, Johann Benjamin joined him in ca. 1772. Both brothers married the English girls and Daniel became furrie and John Benjamin a clock and watch maker.<br /> <br /> Their father was born in Kreuzburg, East Prussia in 1706. We know also the other generations:<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family from Prussia <br /> (15th-17th c.)|Michel Tolkien (b. ca. 1620, Globuhnen by Kreuzburg, Prussia)|Christianus Tolkien <br /> (1663-1746, Kreuzburg, Kingdom of Prussia)|Christian Tolkien (b. 1706 in Kreuzburg, d. 1791 in Gdańsk, Polish Prussia)= Anna Euphrosina Tolkien, née Bergholtz (1719-1792)|Johann (John) Benjamin Tolkien (b. 1752 in Gdańsk, d. 1819 in London)|George Tolkien (1784-1840)<br /> |John Benjamin Tolkien(1807-1896)|Arthur Reuel Tolkien(1857-1896)|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien(1892-1973)<br /> <br /> The Tolkien family name belongs to a big Prussian family of names with the ending -in, -yn, -ien, -iehn and comes from Tolk-īn 'a descendant of Tolk'. Tolk is a Prussian name meaning 'translator, negotiator'<br /> <br /> The Tolkiens in the 16th-18th centuries lives in East Prussia. You will not find the Tolkiens in Saxony, because it is a Prussian family of medieval roots in the Teutonic State. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :The current text is what Tolkien himself believed to be the origin of his family and family name. He mentioned it multiple times - [[Letter 165]] and [[Letter 324]], for example. He explicitly dismisses the association with Tolk- ("interpreter", "spokesman") in [[Letter 349]]. Even if that blog were true - I'm not saying it isn't - outright removing the current text and replacing it with things that contradict it is not the way to go. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I am sorry. I am not a Wikipedist, I have problems with proper editing in the places like this. I undestrand, Ederchil your position. The clue is that Professor Tolkien couldn't know things we know today. My research is known to the Tolkien family today, it is already accepted by the Tolkien Society (see their website) and is included in the newest "The J.R.R. Tolkien. Companion and Guide". I spent last year in the archives to find the truth about the Tolkien genealogy. Only you know how to enter the information from me into your Tolkien Gateway. Plese, think about including the information about the roots in Gdańsk and East Prussia. And about the alternative etymology of the Tolkien family name. {{unsigned|Galadhorn}}<br /> <br /> :I have no problems with including it, as long as it is properly sourced and the current is not removed. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Can you help me with it, Ederchil? As a source you can cite Ch. Scull, W. G. Hammond, "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide" (2017), G 828, 1298. When they publish my article in the "Tolkien Studies" there will be another source for the Tolkien Gateway (I will inform you about the publication). Or you can quote the Tolkien Society website: https://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/biography/<br /> <br /> "The name “Tolkien” (pron.: Tol-keen; equal stress on both syllables) was believed by the family (including Tolkien himself) to be of German origin; Toll-kühn: foolishly brave, or stupidly clever—hence the pseudonym “Oxymore” which he occasionally used; however, this quite probably was a German rationalisation of an originally Baltic Tolkyn, or Tolkīn. In any case, his great-great grandfather John (Johann) Benjamin Tolkien came to Britain with his brother Daniel from Gdańsk in about 1772 and rapidly became thoroughly Anglicised."<br /> <br /> I am very weak as a Wikipedist. I don't understand the language of the coding in here. Please, help me.<br /> <br /> == Lots of time to learn, my boy ==<br /> <br /> It is clear you bring your own view, only, to this Wiki.<br /> <br /> A moderator's task is to intervene when new users first stray from your narrow course.<br /> <br /> Not after much effort.<br /> <br /> This is clearly habitual.<br /> <br /> Now I see why so many Wiki's exist on this topic.<br /> <br /> Some even allow flexibility and detail.<br /> <br /> You are young and I hope you have the time to really understand Tolkien's great Work.<br /> <br /> There seems to be a lot of Noldor in your ATTITUDE.<br /> <br /> But it's YOUR Wiki, so...<br /> <br /> [[User:Fudoki|Fudoki]] 21:00, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :So much for the skin of Ironfoot. Wait, was the skin of Ironfoot ever mentioned? Guess not. Silly me.<br /> :I admire that you want to help out. But putting in effort does not automatically mean it's a well-written summary of the life of Fingon. It was practically unsalvageable, a jumbled collection of clauses.<br /> :I'm not young by most standards, and I'm more Dwarf than Noldo. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:16, 31 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == "Other" label ==<br /> <br /> You wrote "again, this is not what Other is for" in the Elured and Elurin articles... So I repeat what I asked in the Talk:Elwing page: Given the fact that Eluréd, Elurín and Elwing present some difficulties in being classified in terms of elf/man/half-elf, why not use a neutral label? Despite the name "other", the label is an empty one, the character in question is not put in some list of "strange races" or nothing like that. See [[Falathar]] and companions: they were elves or men, but we don't know exactly what they are, so the "other" label was applied in their articles. If you insist this is wrong, I think a third way should be find, because the "elf" label doesn't seem right to me: Dior was mortal, your sons couldn't be elves. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 19:31, 1 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Those two are three quarters Elf. They're more Elvish than Half-elves. And even Half-elves are still identified by their Elvenness (they're not called Half-men) so giving them a undetermined elf infobox is still better than lumping them with "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: You explore a very subjective line of argumentation, percentage of elvish blood and the word "half-elf"... I don't see why this so personal thinking would be better, instead of a neutral label - "race unknown" and "race too small for their own infobox" is another subjective vision of yours, nothing in the box says that - or even a “sinda” label, for example... But whatever, I think you had a pet peeve with my editions since the beginning, reverting them and writing hardly nothing, and now have found a new way to continue disagreeing - particularly because this argumentation of yours is a new one, you insisted earlier on restoring the "half-elf" label, and, indeed, you replaced Elurín in the Category:Half-Elves and it still remain so... [[User:Haran|Haran]] 21:07, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Unnecessary block? ==<br /> <br /> What did you block [[User:JaquelineKitchen]] for? She (I'm assuming it is "she") had not done anything wrong...--[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 14:27, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It's a spambot. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Okay, I understand now. Thanks for expalaining. --[[User:DoctorWellington|DoctorWellington]] 13:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB ==<br /> <br /> Verwijder mijn gebruikersnaam AUB. Ik heb valide informative toegevoegd. Vervolgens wordt dit verwijderd. Daar heb ik geen zin in. Dan maar niet. {{unsigned|PeterNC}}<br /> <br /> :Er zijn zoveel fans wereldwijd dat we toch enige grenzen moeten stellen. Mensen die boeken of artikelen gepubliceerd hebben krijgen voorrang. <br /> :Ik heb nog geprobeerd om het te herschrijven, maar er was bar weinig aan te doen. Sommige delen waren woord voor woord (en dode link voor dode link) overgenomen van [[Haradrim (Tolkien Society)]] en andere waren niet meer dan reclame. Dat het valide is betekent niet dat wij het in de aangeboden vorm maar moeten gebruiken. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == parabombing what?! ==<br /> <br /> But what the matter with my edits??? They are not vandalism, this is a fact that spiders don't have stingers, if Shelob was born in the First Age, she's obviously several millenia old, and square kilometer converting is also useful for somebody not mastering well Anglo-Saxon metric system. Not every statement needs sourcing, it would be nonsense. [[Special:Contributions/193.54.167.180|193.54.167.180]] 18:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The age needs to be a number. Even if an approximation, it needs to be written out in numbers with the source in a ref and any explanation in a note. <br /> :Is there any source spiders don't have stingers in Middle-earth?<br /> :It's not the "Anglo-Saxon metric system". Or the Imperial system, as it's actually mean (it's not metric). The mentioned measures are the translation convention Tolkien used for the [[Lár]]/league and the [[Ranga]]/yard, and presumably other units of measurement too. A mile in the real world is a third of a league, and that's usually used in analysis of scale, but as the Númenorean reckoning was decimal, one could question whether they had a "mile" equivalent, or if they used tenths of leagues or fifths or something. But miles were the terms Tolkien used. Not kilometers. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure if the term "square mile" is even used. I've removed the comparison of real world countries because this minute difference.<br /> :Parabombing is the wiki practice of plonking a sentence within parentheses in the middle of a paragraph, without regard for what it does for the sentence. If you cannot work it into the section in a natural, readable way, don't add it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:29, 15 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Spammer Problem and Trying to Fix It==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, I've been trying to restore the infobox on the [[Wizards]] article after [[Special:Contributions/66.203.18.47|66.203.18.47]] spammed it and then restored it to normal, but I can't find the template. Also, I've seen that this user has been consistently spamming and restoring articles, and that is definitely a rotten thing to do. Can you help me? Thank you! -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Also, he completely messed up the entire article, and I've been trying to revert his edits. It's not working, though. -- {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> Never mind, I fixed it, but I'm still concerned about this user. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> :Done. An easy way to fix it is just go to the page's history and edit and save the last version from before the vandalism. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:10, 24 January 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Bedankt voor de hulp(Please excuse my unprofessional Dutch)! I hope I'm not being too much of a pest; that's what happens when a 14-year-old signs up on a Tolkien wiki. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br /> <br /> == Article Image Question ==<br /> <br /> Hi Ederchil, can you look [[Talk:Meriadoc Brandybuck|here]] really quickly and give your opinion on it? Thanks! —{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 00:20, 19 Feb 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Discrepancies on Arvegil ==<br /> <br /> So just how do you propose to acknowledge that the published text of TLotR leaves no room for the birth year or lifespan attributed to Arvegil by "The Heirs of Elendil" to be correct?...letting the latter stand uncontradicted is just unconscionable.[[Special:Contributions/12.144.5.2|12.144.5.2]] 15:57, 18 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :We generally have "Other versions of the Legendarium" as a section header for any out-of-universe information. But that wasn't the only issue. Sources need to be in-line with [[:Category:Citation templates|specific citation templates]], and it should just be a mention of the discrepancy, without a conclusion about its canonicity.<br /> :And you should never start anything with "It should be noted". --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arvegil&diff=306199 Arvegil 2019-08-17T21:06:28Z

<p>Ederchil: that's not how discrepancies should be included.</p> <hr /> <div>__NOTOC__<br /> {{arnorian infobox<br /> | name=Arvegil<br /> | image=[[File:Arvegil.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption=Arvegil from ''[[Middle-earth Role Playing]]''<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=<br /> | titles=[[King of Arthedain]]<br /> | position=<br /> | location=[[Arthedain]]<br /> | affiliation=<br /> | language=[[Sindarin]], [[Westron]]<br /> | birth={{TA|1553}}<br /> | birthlocation=<br /> | rule={{TA|1670}} - {{TA|1743|n}}<br /> | death={{TA|1743}}<br /> | deathlocation=<br /> | age=190<br /> | notablefor=<br /> | house=[[House of Isildur]]<br /> | parentage=[[Argeleb II]]<br /> | siblings=<br /> | spouse=<br /> | children=[[Arveleg II]]<br /> | gender=Male<br /> | height=<br /> | hair=<br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=<br /> | steed=<br /> }}<br /> '''Arvegil''' ({{TA|1553}}<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}, p. 194</ref> - {{TA|1743|n}},<ref name="North">{{App|North}}</ref> died aged 190) was the eleventh king of [[Arthedain]], succeeding his father, [[Argeleb II]], upon his death in 1670.<br /> ==History==<br /> During his father's reign, Arvegil saw events that would shape the history of [[Middle-earth]], including the foundation of [[the Shire]]. He was eighty-three years old (no great age for one of the [[Dúnedain]]) when the [[Great Plague]] came out of the south and ravaged [[Eriador]], but the seat of the Kings at [[Fornost]] in the north was little affected.<ref>{{App|Eriador}}</ref><br /> <br /> Arvegil lived for one hundred and ninety years, longer than any of his descendants until [[Aragorn]].<ref>{{PM|Ai}}</ref> By the standards of his own ancestors, though, this was an early death. Of all the northern Kings before Arvegil - excepting those slain in battle - only two had lived less than two hundred years: his father [[Argeleb II]] and his grandfather [[Araphor]].<br /> <br /> Arvegil ruled [[Arthedain]] for seventy-three years, and was succeeded by his son, who ruled as [[Arveleg II]], upon his death in {{TA|1743|n}}.<ref name="North"/><br /> <br /> == Etymology ==<br /> '''Arvegil''' is [[Sindarin]] for "Royal Sword" from ''[[Ara|ara-]]'' meaning "royal, king", and ''megil'' (becoming [[Lenition|lenited]] to ''vegil'') meaning "sword". <br /> <br /> == Genealogy ==<br /> {{familytree/start}}<br /> {{familytree | ARA |ARA=[[Araphor]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1589|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARG |ARG=[[Argeleb II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1473|n}} - {{TA|1670|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARV |ARV='''ARVEGIL'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1553|n}} - {{TA|1743|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARV |ARV=[[Arveleg II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1633|n}} - {{TA|1813|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree | |!| |}}<br /> {{familytree | ARA |ARA=[[Araval]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1711|n}} - {{TA|1891|n}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree/end}}<br /> {{references}}<br /> {{seq-start}}<br /> {{seq-head<br /> | race=arnorian<br /> | house=[[House of Isildur]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br /> | born={{TA|1553}}<br /> | died={{TA|1743}}<br /> }}<br /> {{seq<br /> | prow=2<br /> | prev=[[Argeleb II]]<br /> | list=19th [[Heir of Isildur|Heir]] of [[Isildur]]<br /> | dates={{TA|1670}} - {{TA|1743|n}}<br /> | next=[[Arveleg II]]<br /> | nrow=2<br /> }}<br /> {{seq<br /> | list=11th [[Kings of Arthedain|King of Arthedain]]<br /> | dates={{TA|1670}} - {{TA|1743|n}}<br /> }}<br /> {{seq-end}}{{northernline}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:House of Isildur]]<br /> [[Category:Rulers of Arthedain]]<br /> [[Category:Sindarin names]]<br /> [[Category:Third Age characters]]<br /> [[de:Arvegil]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/dunedain_du_nord/arvegil]]<br /> [[fi:Arvegil]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Orcs&diff=305831 Orcs 2019-07-25T18:50:36Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>{{rewrite}}{{sources}}<br /> {{race infobox<br /> | name=Orcs<br /> | image=[[File:John Howe - In Mordor.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption="In Mordor" by [[John Howe]]<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=Goblins, [[Glamhoth]], [[Yrch]]<br /> | origin=Obscure, but apparently bred from [[Elves]] or [[Men]]<br /> | location=[[Utumno]], [[Angband]], [[Mordor]], [[Misty Mountains]], [[Angmar]], [[Mount Gundabad]], [[High Pass]], [[Dol Guldur]] [[Isengard]]<br /> | affiliation=[[Morgoth]], [[Sauron]], [[Saruman]]<br /> | rivalry=[[Elves]], [[Men]], [[Dwarves]]<br /> | language=[[Black Speech]]; numerous [[Orkish]] languages; [[Westron]]<br /> | people=[[Uruk-hai]], [[Goblin-men]], [[Half-orcs]], [[Hobgoblins]], [[Orcs of Mordor|Mordor Orcs]], [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains|Misty Mountain Orcs]]<br /> | members=[[Othrod]], [[Azog]], [[Bolg]], [[Gorbag]], [[Great Goblin]], [[Grishnákh]]<br /> | lifespan=Early Orcs - Probably immortal or long-lived<ref>{{S|3}}</ref><br/>Later Orcs - diminished<ref name=Myths>{{MR|Myths}}</ref>{{rp|411}}<br/>[[Boldog|Boldogs]] - far longer than [[Men]]<ref name=Myths/>{{rp|418}}<br /> | distinctions=Evil footsoldiers of the [[Dark Lord|Evil]]; preferred darkness<br /> | height=Short<ref>{{FR|II5}} The "huge" orc-chieftain is described as "almost man high"</ref><br /> | hair=<br /> | skin=Sallow, green, brown, grey, black, swarthy<br /> | clothing=<br /> | weapons=<br /> }}<br /> '''Orcs''' (also called '''[[Orcs#Orcs and Goblins|Goblins]]''') were the footsoldiers of evil overlords - [[Morgoth]], [[Sauron]] and [[Saruman]]. <br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> ===Origins and early years===<br /> <br /> The Orcs were bred by [[Morgoth|Melkor]] in mockery of the [[Elves]], sometime during the [[The Darkness#The Great Darkness|Great Darkness]].<ref>{{S|3}}</ref><ref>{{TT|III4}}</ref><br /> <br /> [[File:John Howe - Orc Swordsman.jpg|thumb|200px|right|[[John Howe]] - ''Orc Swordsman'']]<br /> <br /> It is unclear exactly when Orcs were created, but it certainly happened before the [[War for Sake of the Elves]] in his stronghold of Utumno. Whether the Orcs were at this time a capable fighting force against the host of Valinor is not known. But at least some of them survived this war, probably hidden in the deep vaults of [[Angband]], and multiplied, waiting for their master.<br /> <br /> When Melkor (now known as [[Morgoth]]) returned to Middle-earth, he created new hordes of Orcs and invaded [[Beleriand]], where the [[First Battle of Beleriand]] took place. Orcs also fought in [[Dagor-nuin-Giliath]].<br /> <br /> ===First Age===<br /> Orcs appear in the [[First Age]] as the core force of [[Morgoth]]. Hundreds of thousands of Orcs were bred in [[Angband]] to participate in the [[Battles of Beleriand]], which lasted 587 years.<br /> <br /> Orcs first appear in the [[First Age]] in the [[Battle of the Lammoth]], where they were defeated by [[Fingolfin]] and his [[Noldor]]. Orcs participated in battles such as the [[Dagor Aglareb]], [[Dagor Bragollach]], [[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]], [[Fall of the Falas]], and finally in the [[War of Wrath]], where they were almost extinguished. Those that survived the defeat fled eastwards and hid probably in the Mountains of [[Angmar]] and the [[Ered Mithrin]].<br /> <br /> ===Second Age===<br /> Around the year {{SA|1000}} Sauron reappeared, took the land of [[Mordor]] as his realm and started the construction of [[Barad-dûr]]. It is likely that most of his servants were Orcs at this time that he had gathered under his command. Still for a long time Sauron's foul servants did not play an important role, for the Dark Lord had chosen a more subtle way to overthrow the free people by creating the [[Rings of Power]].<br /> <br /> During the [[War of the Elves and Sauron]], in {{SA|1700}}, Orcs formed the main power of Sauron's host. Despite the immeasurable number of Orcs, Sauron was defeated by the united hosts of Elves and [[Númenóreans]]. Still Sauron was powerful east of the [[Misty Mountains]] and the Orcs that inhabited the mountains and the eastern lands multiplied.<br /> <br /> The [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains]] started a war against the [[Dwarves]], resulting in the [[First Sack of Gundabad]] and its occupation by the Orcs. Finally, Orcs were the core force of [[Sauron]] during the [[War of the Last Alliance]], and fought in great battles such as the [[Battle of Dagorlad]] and the [[Siege of Barad-dûr]].<br /> <br /> ===Third Age===<br /> [[File:Richard Sullivan - Orc.jpg|thumb|left|Richard Sullivan - ''Orc'']]<br /> During the [[Third Age]], Orcs were the standard troops of the [[Witch-king]] of [[Angmar]] and [[Sauron]] (both in [[Mordor]] and in [[Dol Guldur]]). <br /> <br /> In [[Angmar]], Orcs fought in the [[Angmar War]]. Years later, they invaded [[Eriador]] under the leadership of the [[Necromancer]]. <br /> <br /> The [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains]], one of the few (more or less) independent Orcish societies, and their leader [[Azog]] started out the [[War of the Dwarves and Orcs]], and after their defeat they retreated in their caves. They appeared again in {{TA|2941}}, when the [[Battle of Five Armies]] took place.<br /> <br /> The [[Orcs of Mordor]] fought in major battles during the [[War of the Ring]], such as the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]], but the majority of [[Mordor]]'s forces were destroyed or scattered at the [[Battle of the Morannon]]. Sporadic fighting in the following weeks led to the Orcs finally being driven out of the western end of Mordor, though it is unclear how many Orcs Sauron had in his armies, and it is also unclear how many survived after his defeat. <br /> <br /> The Orcs in [[Dol Guldur]] remained in [[Mirkwood]] until the [[Fall of Dol Guldur]], one of the last battles of the War of the Ring.<br /> <br /> ===Fourth Age and beyond===<br /> The fate of the Orcs after the Third Age is unknown. Though many of Sauron's Orcs fought on and were slain in the weeks following the Battle of the Morannon, the true number of Sauron's hosts is unclear, as are the numbers of Orcs not within Mordor that may still inhabit the rest of Middle-earth. It is at least known that the Orcs of Moria either fled or were slain by the Fourth Age, as it is mentioned that the Dwarves managed to retake Moria and the mines within it.<br /> <br /> ==Characteristics==<br /> <br /> ===Culture===<br /> <br /> It is certain all Orcs were dependent on the Dark Lords in various ways: after the War of Wrath, the Orcs were confused and dismayed without Morgoth, and were easily scattered by their enemies. In the millennia after his defeat and banishment from Arda, they were without a leader and degenerated into small, quarrelsome tribes hiding in wild places, such as the [[Misty Mountains]] and the [[Mountains of Angmar]]. Orcs remained a threat to travelers and isolated settlements, and when united could pose a great regional threat, but they could never amount to the force they were under Morgoth. Only when Sauron returned to power did they begin to reclaim their old power. The same happened after Sauron's defeat by the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]]: only under the Witch-King's command, and when Sauron returned as the Necromancer of [[Mirkwood]], did the Orcs become a real danger for all of Middle-earth again. Orcs were warlike and often cruel, fighting with reckless ferocity and delighting in the slaughter and torture of their foes; many had a cowardly nature however, and were often regarded as inferior, though far more expendable, than the soldiers of Men, Elves, and Dwarves.<br /> <br /> ===Lifespan===<br /> <br /> It is unknown if the Orcs were immortal like the Elves. There is, in any case, a hint for a long lifespan in the story of two of the most famous Orc-chieftains: [[Azog]] and [[Bolg]]. Bolg, being the son of Azog, was the chieftain of the Orcs who attacked Erebor in the Battle of Five Armies in {{TA|2941}}. Azog himself was killed in the Battle of Azanulbizar in {{TA|2799}}, so Bolg was at least 150 years old.<br /> <br /> ===Appearance===<br /> <br /> Orcs were described as smaller in stature than Men on average, strong but crooked in frame and bow-legged. One "huge orc-chieftain" was described as "almost Man-high", but some must have been of a similar size to Hobbits (Frodo and Sam succeeded in disguising themselves as Orcs in Mordor). Their overall appearance varied: they had long arms and fanged mouths, some had black, grey, or white skin.<br /> <br /> ===Kinds of orcs===<br /> The Fellowship usually encountered the large soldier-Orcs bred for war, and sometimes the "snaga" variety which were more geared towards being labourers. Another type is referred to as "snufflers", smaller, black-skinned Orcs with wide nostrils, who excelled in tracking. Despite the smaller size, one snuffler was able to skillfully kill a soldier-orc when they got into a disagreement.<ref name="Cirith">{{RK|VI1}}</ref><br /> <br /> *[[Snaga]]<br /> *[[Snufflers]]<br /> *[[Orcs of Mordor]]<br /> *[[Orcs of the Misty Mountains]]<br /> *[[Half-orcs]] (and [[Goblin-men]])<br /> *[[Uruk-hai]]<br /> *[[Hobgoblins]]<br /> <br /> [[File:Darek Zabrocki - Goblins.jpg|thumb|250px|'''Goblins''' by Darek Zabrocki.]]<br /> <br /> ===Orcs and goblins===<br /> <br /> The term ''goblin'' was used primarily in ''[[The Hobbit]]'' but also in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' where it is used synonymously with "Orc".<ref>{{TT|III1}}</ref><ref>{{HM|RC}}, p. 24</ref><br /> <br /> "Goblin" is an English word, whereas "Orc" is Old English, the language used by Tolkien to represent Rohirric.<ref>{{App|F1iv}}</ref> Thus, there is no difference between Orcs and Goblins.<br /> <br /> The original edition of ''The Hobbit'' and early drafts of ''The Lord of the Rings'' first used "goblin" everywhere and used "[[Hobgoblins|hobgoblin]]" for larger, more evil goblins: when goblins were replaced with Orcs Tolkien invented the term Uruk-hai for his more evil Orcs.<br /> <br /> ==Etymology==<br /> {{quote|The word as far as I am concerned actually derived from [[Old English]] ''orc'', demon, but only because of its phonetic suitability.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]<ref name=L144/>}}<br /> ===Orc===<br /> The word '''''Orc''''' is said to be the "''form of the name that other races had for this foul people as it was in the [[Rohirric|language of Rohan]]''".<ref name=App|F1iv/><br /> <br /> In his late, post-''Lord of the Rings'' writings, Tolkien preferred the spelling '''''Ork'''''.<ref>{{HM|PM}}</ref> It is also possible that the word is a Common Tongue Version of 'orch', the [[Sindarin]] word for Orc. The original sense of the word seems to be "bogey", "bogeyman", that is, something that provokes fear, as seen in the Quenya cognate ''urko'', pl. ''urqui''.{{fact}}<br /> <br /> Tolkien derived the word ''orc'' from [[Old English]] believing it refers to a kind of evil spirits,<ref name=L144/> which in turn is thought to derive from Latin ''Orcus'' "Hades", although Tolkien doubted this etymology.<ref>[[J.R.R. Tolkien]], "[[Letter to Gene Wolfe]]" (letter)</ref> He also thought it survives in the modern language for sea-beasts,<ref>{{HM|N}}, p. 762</ref> such as the [[Wikipedia:Orca Whale|Orca Whale]].<br /> <br /> ''Orc'' is an [[Old English]] word that refers mainly to a kind of metal cup (from Latin ''Urceus'').<ref group="note">The word ''Orc'' occurs twice in ''[[Beowulf (poem)|Beowulf]]''.</ref> However, in a 11th century glossary, this entry was conflated with another entry which refers to evil giants such as ''[[Wikipedia:Jötunn|þyrs]]'' and other monsters, also glossed in Latin as ''Orcus''. This merge of the two entries made many philologists of the previous centuries, like Tolkien, to believe that ''Orc'' was an actual Old English word that refers to any kind of evil creature from the underworld.<ref>Bosworth and Toller's ''An Anglo-Saxon Dictionary'' (1898), corrected in later editions</ref><br /> <br /> The word ''Orcnéas'' is once found only in ''[[Beowulf (poem)|Beowulf]]'' (lines 112-113) and is cited as an example of the word "Orc" in Old English text. Actually its meaning is not clear, and it is thought to refer to corpses (''néas'') from the Underworld. <br /> <br /> ==="Orcs" in Tolkien's languages===<br /> Tolkien said that one of the reason of choosing "Orc" over "Goblin" was the similarity with his fictional languages.<ref name=WJAC>{{WJ|AC}}, pp. 389-91</ref> Indeed most [[Elvish]], [[Mannish]] and other words for Orc, are similar to the English word. <br /> <br /> The basic [[Primitive Quendian]] [[Sundocarme|root]], from which the words for Orc derive, is [[RUKU]] (said to refer to any "bogey" that scared the Elves)<ref name=WJAC/>:<br /> <br /> *[[Quenya]] '''''orco'''''<ref name=PE17_47/> (pl. '''''Orkor'''''<ref>{{GA|27}}, p. 12</ref><ref>{{HM|MR}}, pp. 74, 194</ref>); [[Exilic Quenya]] '''''urko''''' (pl. '''''orkor''''' and '''''orqui''''')<ref name=WJAC/><br /> *[[Sindarin]]: '''''orch'''''/'''''Orch''''' (pl. '''''yrch'''''/'''''Yrch''''', class pl. '''''Orchoth'''''/'''''orchoth'''''<ref group="note">''Orchoth'' is likely a compound of ''orch'' + ''[[hoth]]''.</ref>)<ref name=WJAC/><ref name=L144/><ref name=PE17_52-4/><ref name=PE17_47/><ref name=App|F1iv/>; '''''[[glamhoth]]'''''<br /> *[[Nandorin]]: '''''ūriʃ'''''<ref name=PE17_52-4>{{PE|17}}, pp. 52-4</ref><br /> <br /> *[[Adûnaic]]: '''''urku''''', '''''urkhu'''''<ref name=WJAC/><br /> *[[Westron]]: '''''orka'''''<ref name=PE17_47>{{PE|17}}, p. 47</ref><br /> *[[Black Speech]]: '''''[[Uruk-hai#Etymology|uruk]]'''''<ref name=App|F1iv>{{App|F1iv}}</ref><ref name=WJAC/><ref name=L144>{{L|144}}</ref><ref name=PE17_47/><br /> *[[Khuzdul]]: '''''Rukhs''''' (pl. '''''Rakhās'''''), possibly derived from an unknown [[Avarin]] word of the same meaning<ref name=WJAC/><ref group="note">''Rukhs'' appears to contain the radical R-Kh-S.</ref><br /> *[[Drúadan language]]: '''''gorgûn''''' ("orc-folk"; the form ''gorgûn'' is perhaps plural of an unknown singular form)<ref name=PE17_99>{{PE|17}}, p. 99</ref><ref>{{RK|V5}}</ref><ref name=WJAC/><br /> <br /> In the earliest versions of [[Qenya]], Tolkien had words such as "'''Ork (orq-)''' pl. '''Orqi''' and fem. "'''orqindi'''".{{fact}}<br /> <br /> In [[Noldorin]], the earlier version of Sindarin, the word for Orc is the same: ''orch'' (pl ''yrch'').<ref name=LR379>{{LR|Etymologies}}, p. 379 (entry for ÓROK)</ref><ref>{{MR|P3I7}}, p. 195</ref><ref>{{MC|Secret}}, p. 217</ref> The [[Gnomish]] word for "one of a tribe of the orcs. a goblin" is said to be '''''Gong'''''.<ref>{{PE|11}}, p. 41</ref><br /> <br /> *''See also: [[Entish]] ''[[burárum]]''<br /> ===Goblin===<br /> ''[[Wiktionary:goblin|Goblin]]'' is a folk word which according to ''The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English'' is probably derived from the Anglo-French ''[[Wiktionary:gobelin|gobelin]]'' a diminutive of ''gobel'' (cf. ''[[Wiktionary:kobold|kobold]]''). William D.B. Loos notes that ''goblin'' is a Romance-derived word, unlike other Germanic words preferred by [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]].<ref>William D.B. Loos, [http://tolkien.slimy.com/tfaq/EnemyMisc.html#Orcs Enemies and Miscellaneous: What was the relationship between Orcs and Goblins?] at [http://tolkien.slimy.com/tfaq/ The Tolkien Frequently Asked Questions List] (accessed 3 July 2011)</ref><br /> <br /> ==="Goblin" in Tolkien's languages===<br /> <br /> In the [[The Etymologies|''Etymologies'']], the Elvish names used to translate "goblin" derive from root [[RUKU#Other versions|ÓROK]] and are:<ref name=LR379>{{LR|Etymologies}}, p. 379 (entry for ÓROK)</ref><br /> <br /> *[[Quenya]]: '''''orko''''' (pl. '''''orqi''''')<br /> *[[Noldorin]]: ''orch'' (pl ''yrch'', archaic ''yrchy''<ref>{{VT|46a}}, p. 7</ref>)<br /> *[[Nandorin|Danian]]: '''''urc''''' (pl. '''''yrc''''')<br /> *[[Doriathrin]]: '''''urch''''' (pl. '''''urchin''''')<br /> <br /> In an early linguistic writing, Tolkien translated the [[Gnomish]] word ''Gong'' as "one of a tribe of the orcs. a goblin."<ref>{{PE|11}}, p. 41</ref><br /> <br /> ==Other versions of the legendarium==<br /> <br /> ===Origin===<br /> According to the oldest "theory" proposed by Tolkien, Orcs were made of "subterranean heat and slime", and their hearts were stones like granite, through the sorcery of Morgoth.<ref>{{LT2 | III}}, p.159</ref> But, Tolkien later changed the legendarium so that Morgoth could no longer produce life on his own.<br /> <br /> While Tolkien originally saw all Orcs as descended from tortured Elves, later comments of his indicate, according to [[Christopher Tolkien]] in ''Morgoth's Ring'' ("Myths Transformed, text X"), that he began to feel uncomfortable with the theory that orcs were descending from Elves. However, Tolkien died before he could complete his upheaval of the cosmology, and in the published version of ''The Silmarillion'', the Elf origin of Orcs was adopted. It does not appear that the elder Tolkien ever decided on a definitive answer. Different origins proposed were: animals that Morgoth infused with reason (Myths Transformed, text VIII), Elves and (later) Men (M.T.,text IX) and "probably" Men (text X).<br /> <br /> The origin of Orcs is an open question. In Tolkien's writings, evil is not capable of independent creation, making it unlikely that the [[Valar|Vala]] [[Morgoth|Melkor]], who was obviously the first to produce them, could do that ''ex nihilo''. In ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' is mentioned that the Orcs were transformed from Elves &mdash; the purest form of life on [[Arda]] (the Earth) &mdash; by means of torture and mutilation; and this "theory" would then become the most popular. There are hints in the ''[[The History of Middle-earth|History of Middle-earth]]'' series of books, (especially in ''[[Morgoth's Ring]]'' in the section "Myths Transformed"), that some Orc leaders, such as the First Age's [[Boldog]], or the [[Great Goblin]] encountered by [[Bilbo Baggins|Bilbo]] and the Dwarves, may in fact have been fallen [[Maiar]] which had taken Orc form.<br /> <br /> Yet other Orcs may have begun as animals of vaguely humanoid shapes, empowered by the will of the Dark Lord (first [[Morgoth]], later Sauron).<br /> <br /> : ''The Orcs were beasts of humanized shape (&#8230;).'' ('Morgoth's Ring', "Myths transformed", text VIII')<br /> <br /> ==Controversy==<br /> Tolkien's Orcs have been a subject of criticism of [[racism]]. Tolkien described Orcs as "squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types".<ref>{{L|210}}</ref><br /> <br /> ==Other writings==<br /> In ''[[The Father Christmas Letters]]'', goblins appear as the enemies of [[Father Christmas]] and the [[Red Elves]].<br /> <br /> ==Portrayal in adaptations==<br /> ===Orcs===<br /> {{stub}}<gallery>File: The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Orcs.jpg|Orcs in [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]<br /> File:The Return of the King (1980 film) - Orcs.jpg|Orcs in [[The Return of the King (1980 film)|''The Return of the King'' (1980 film)]]<br /> File:The Lord of the Rings- The Treason of Isengard - Ork.jpg|Concept art of an orc in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Treason of Isengard]]''<br /> File:The Lord of the Rings War in the North - Orc3.jpg|An Orc in [[Fornost]] in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]''.</gallery><br /> <br /> '''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br /> :Orc-kind is a genus that include the species of Orc, Goblins, [[Half-orcs]], [[Boggarts]], [[Bugans]] and [[Uruk-hai]].<br /> <br /> :Orcs are very common in Middle-earth. They are about the size of a man with a hunchback.<br /> <br /> ''''2011: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]'':'''<br /> :Orcs are first seen in [[Fornost]], where they immediately attack [[Eradan (video game character)|Eradan]], [[Andriel]] and [[Farin (video game character)|Farin]] on their aproach.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]], Chapter 1: Fornost, ''Main Gate''</ref> ''Orc warriors'' are stronger then normal Orcs. Some Orcs have been taught [[Magic|sorcery]] by [[Agandaûr]], these are known as ''Orc Sorcerers''.<br /> <br /> ===Goblins===<br /> <gallery>File:The Hobbit (1977 film) - Goblins.jpg|Goblins in [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]<br /> File:The Lord of the Rings War in the North - Goblins1.jpg|Goblins in the pits of [[Fornost]] in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]''<br /> File:The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey - Goblins.jpg|Goblins in ''[[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]''</gallery><br /> <br /> '''2003: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'':'''<br /> :Goblins have been made clearly distinct from Orcs.<br /> <br /> '''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br /> :Goblins have been made clearly distinct from Orcs.<br /> <br /> '''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br /> :Goblins are a separate race and can be found in [[Evendim]], [[the Shire]], [[Ered Luin]], [[Bree-land]], [[Lone-lands]], [[North Downs]], [[Misty Mountains]], [[Angmar]] and [[Moria]]. They are small in stature; a little shorter than [[Hobbits]]. In contrast, Orcs are about the size of [[Men]]. Goblins are also weaker than the orcs.<br /> <br /> '''2011: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]'':'''<br /> :Goblins first appear in [[Fornost Erain]], where they attack [[Eradan (video game character)|Eradan]], [[Andriel]] and [[Farin (video game character)|Farin]] immediately when they reach the city.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]], Chapter 1: Fornost, ''Main Gate''</ref> Goblins are weaker than Orcs.<br /> <br /> '''2012: ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]'':'''<br /> :Goblins are again made clearly distinct from Orcs in the film series. They are possibly lesser relatives of Orcs; they are smaller (the very large Great Goblin notwithstanding), less powerful, and generally have pale, diseased skin.<br /> <br /> '''2014: ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'':'''<br /> :A band of "Goblin mercenaries" appear on [[Ravenhill]] during the [[Battle of Five Armies]], but are taken care of by the Dwarves without much trouble.<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> *[[Gongs]]<br /> *[[:Category:Images of Orcs|Images of Orcs]]<br /> *[[:Category:Images of Goblins|Images of Goblins]]<br /> <br /> {{references|note}}<br /> [[Category:Orcs| ]]<br /> [[Category:Races]]<br /> [[de:Orks]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo/peuples/orques/orques]]<br /> [[fi:Örkit]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Lord_of_the_Rings_Online&diff=305768 The Lord of the Rings Online 2019-07-18T19:00:36Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by Muzdavid (talk) to last revision by Sinordloresearcher</p> <hr /> <div>{{cleanup}}<br /> {{disambig-more|The Lord of the Rings|[[The Lord of the Rings (disambiguation)]]}}<br /> {{video game infobox| image=[[Image:Lotro logo.png|250px]]| name=The Lord of the Rings Online| developer=[[Turbine|Turbine, Inc.]]| publisher=[[Turbine|Turbine, Inc.]]<br /> [[Midway Games]]<br /> [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]] (2010-)<br /> | platform=Microsoft Windows, OS X (Beta)| releasedate=April 24, [[2007]]| genre=MMORPG| modes=| rating=| distribution=}}<br /> '''''The Lord of the Rings Online''''' (commonly abbreviated to '''LOTRO''' or '''LotRO''') is an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game) for PC and OS X that takes place in the world of [[Arda]] during the time of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]].'' It was originally branded as '''The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar''', but with later updates, that subtitle was dropped. <br /> <br /> The players take on the role of adventurers of the [[Free peoples|Free Peoples]] of [[Middle-earth]]. The events of the game are concurrent with the events of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' but most of the game revolves around events that occurred elsewhere or in the wake of events in the books. The game draws inspiration from people, places and events only mentioned in the books, combining these with original concepts to expand on parts of Middle-earth Tolkien did not. The main quest series of the game, known as Epic Quests, are divided into volumes, books and chapters, emulating the structure of ''The Lord of the Rings''.<br /> <br /> To date, there have been six purchasable expansions: Mines of Moria (2008), Siege of Mirkwood (2009), Rise of Isengard (2011), Riders of Rohan (2012), Helm's Deep (2013) and Mordor (2017), with many smaller updates in between.<br /> <br /> ==Development==<br /> {{rewrite}}<br /> <br /> Development began in 1998, when [[Sierra Entertainment|Sierra]] started work on a game called ''[[Middle-earth Online]]''. Following [[Vivendi|Vivendi Universal Games]]' takeover of Sierra, the game's production was shared with [[Turbine]]. Turbine secured the rights of the entire game in March 2004,<ref>[http://www.videogamer.com/news/turbine_spin_into_action_to_secure_tolkien_license.html Turbine spin into action to secure Tolkien license - VideoGamer.com]</ref> and it was renamed to ''The Lord of the Rings Online''. It was originally subscription-based, but later became free-to-play with optional paid subscription and microtransactions.<br /> <br /> A closed beta was announced on [[8 September|September 8]], [[2006]]. An open beta began on [[30 March|March 30]], [[2007]], and was open to all who pre-ordered the game's Founders Club edition. In April [[2007]], the beta opened to the public.<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Gameplay==<br /> ===Characters===<br /> ''Main article: [[Character Classes (LOTRO)]]''<br /> Like many RPGs, ''The Lord of the Rings Online'' has a system of character classes and levels. Each character chooses a race and a class on character creation, this cannot be changed. Players are able to play as any of the [[Free Peoples]] - [[Elves]], [[Men]], [[Dwarves]], [[Hobbits]], [[Beornings]], or [[High Elves]]. Male or female characters can be created, except in the case of Dwarves. As per Tolkien, Dwarf women are very rare and seldom leave their mountain halls. There are ten classes: Beorning, Burglar, Captain, Champion, Guardian, Hunter, Lore-master, Minstrel, Rune-keeper, and Warden.<br /> <br /> Customization of the character's abilities can be done by changing equipment and traits. As of the [[The Lord of the Rings Online#Helm.27s Deep Expansion|Helm's Deep expansion]], class traits work on a tree system, with each class having three "trait trees" where traits can be selected with earned points and unlocking enough traits in a particular tree allows higher-level traits to be selected and applies additional bonus. In addition to class traits are racial traits, such as Men being able to slot a trait to do additional damage with swords or Hobbits being able to slot a trait that allows them to throw a stone, and virtue traits which boost the character's stats.<br /> <br /> Levels are significant, with much lower level enemies being extremely easy to defeat and much higher level enemies being nearly impossible to defeat. Each region has enemies and quests with a range of levels usually consecutive to those of an adjacent region. Quests over five levels above the character's level are inaccessible. In addition to being able to complete quest and defeat enemies in more locations, characters gain access to additional equipment, skills, traits and instances as they level up. Levels are increased by gaining experience, which is earned by completing quests and instances, defeating enemies of an appropriate level, and crafting.<br /> <br /> ===World===<br /> ''The Lord of the Rings Online'' is an "open-world" game in which most locations that have been released can be freely accessed on an open landscape (although some places, such as Moria, require certain quests to be completed first.) The game world is split into "lands", large areas of Middle-Earth. As of Update 21, the four lands in the game are [[Eriador]], [[Rhovanion]], [[Gondor]], and [[Mordor]]. Each land is in turn divided into regions, e.g. [[Bree-land]] in Eriador, and each region contains areas, e.g. [[Andrath]] within Bree-land.<br /> <br /> Although most of the land is available to all for exploration, most regions require non-VIPs to purchase a quest pack to access quests, deeds and instances associated with that region. A few regions, such as East and West Rohan, require expansion packs to be purchased to unlock content, even for VIPs. Each region is generally seen as it was in a certain time in the War of the Ring, for example Lothlórien is visited by the player at the same time as the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] rested there, and [[Pelargir]] just after [[Aragorn]] liberated the city from the [[Corsairs of Umbar]].<br /> <br /> ===Quests===<br /> Much of the game's completable content is in the form of quests. Quests consist of a series of objectives, often including speaking with NPCs, defeating certain enemies, and recovering certain items from the ground or from defeated enemies. Most quests have a small number of objectives but may unlock additional quests upon completion to form a quest chain. Quests are usually started by started by speaking with a particular Non-Player Character (NPC), indicated with a ring icon above the NPC's head. The forms of ring icons and what they indicate are as follows:<br /> <br /> *Gold ring with blue aura: the NPC has a quest that is approximately appropriate for the character's level.<br /> *Gold ring with blue aura and fiery inscription: the NPC must be spoken with to advance the quest.<br /> *Bright gold ring: the NPC has an Epic quest available.<br /> *Gold ring with orange flames: the NPC must be spoken to to advance the Epic quest.<br /> *Blue ring and quill: the NPC has a comment about an active quest, speaking to the NPC will not advance the quest but may give additional information.<br /> *Gold ring with hourglass: the NPC has a quest with a cooldown, the player must wait for the cooldown to expire before accepting the quest.<br /> *Silver ring: the NPC has a quest that is too high level for the player to accept at that level.<br /> *Transparent grey ring: the NPC has a "trivial" quest, one far below the player's level.<br /> *Gold ring with anvil: the NPC has a crafting quest, and involves the crafting system in some way.<br /> *Gold ring with sword: The NPC has an allegiance quest; quests that are unique to the Mordor Expansion.<br /> <br /> Some quests are started by obtaining unique items dropped from specific enemies. The [[The Lord of the Rings Online#Riders of Rohan Expansion|Riders of Rohan expansion]] introduced auto-bestowed quests, which bring up a quest prompt when the player defeats a specific type of enemy or finds a certain location. Such enemies are marked with ring icons similarly to how NPC quest givers are. Players have the option of accepting these quests automatically or choosing to manually accept or decline each prompt. Most landscape quests can only be completed once, some special landscape quests and most instance quests can be completed once a day any number of times, and a few landscape quests can be repeated at any time up to a certain number of times.<br /> <br /> Quests are categorized according to what area, instance or other section they are associated with. Of note are the Epic Quests, a series that tells the main storyline of the game. In imitation of [[The Lord of the Rings|the Lord of the Rings book]], the epic quests are divided into Volumes, which are divided into Books which in turn are divided into Chapters. Each Chapter is usually an individual quest. Epic Quests bring the player through the landscape but are considered apart from it, therefore most Epic Quests are available to all players regardless of whether or not any quest packs are unlocked. A notable exception is the end of [[Allies of the King|Volume III: Allies of the King]], which requires purchase of the Helm's Deep expansion to complete. The Black Book of Mordor, the new main storyline for quests after the Epic Books, has eight chapters, all spanning various areas in Middle Earth including [[Mordor]], the Strongholds of the North, the [[Iron Hills]], and the [[Ered Mithrin]].<br /> <br /> ===Deeds===<br /> Deeds are non-repeatable achievements recorded on an interface window called the Deed Log. Common deed objectives include completing a certain number of quests in a particular area or region (Quest Deeds), defeating a certain number of enemies of a specific type in a particular region (Slayer Deeds), discovering specified locations (Explorer Deeds), and reaching the next tier of reputation with a faction. Most Deeds award Turbine points. Deeds in a particular region usually award reputation in that region's faction. Deeds also commonly reward marks, virtues, and titles<br /> <br /> ===Instances===<br /> Instances are locations in the game separated from the open landscape, not accessible through normal travel. Instances can take place in either separate versions of the locations available on the landscape (for example, Pelargir while Aragorn's host retakes it from the corsairs) or in locations not accessible anywhere else (such as Dale). Most instances are private instances, that is, only one player or group of players can enter it and it closes when they complete it, while public instances can be joined at any time by any number of separate players. They are often repeatable, with ones associated with landscape quests being replayable through a Reflecting Pool in the associated region and others accessible through the Instance Finder window. Most private instances have associated quests automatically bestowed upon entering the instance and cancelled upon exiting.<br /> <br /> ===Fellowships and Kinships===<br /> Most open landscape content and associated instances are designed to be completable by a solo player, while some locations in the game and Instance Finder instances are meant for a team of players. A group of players with a maximum size of six is known as a fellowship. For larger groups, a raid of up to four fellowships can be formed, for a maximum group size of 24 players. Players are free to group on the open landscape and in public instances, but private instances have a limit on how many players may enter.<br /> <br /> Players can found and join lasting organizations known as Kinships in the game. Players in a kinship can communicate in their own kinship chat channel to socialize and plan events with their fellow members.<br /> <br /> ===Monster Play===<br /> The game is primarily Player vs. Environment (PvE), with most combat being player characters against computer controlled enemies found throughout the landscape and instances. However in the [[Ettenmoors]] region, players can participate in Player vs. Monster Player battles (PvMP). Players can create Monster characters that only have access to PvMP areas where they battle standard characters, who fight on the side of the Free Peoples. Each monster player class is limited to a specific race. The monster classes are the Blackarrow (Uruk), Defiler (Orc), Reaver (Orc), Stalker (Warg), Warleader (Uruk), and Weaver (Spider) As of [[The Lord of the Rings Online#Update 16: Ashes of Osgiliath|Update 16.2]] a new PvMP area, set in Osgiliath before Boromir's journey to Rivendell and accessed via a banner in the Ettenmoors, was released.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Towns and settlements provide Vendors where players can purchase or repair their armour, weapons, and supplies. Towns also often include Mailboxes, Auction Halls, Class Trainers, Forge-masters, Relic-masters, and Stable-masters who allow swift travel between regions.<br /> <br /> The player interface allows other aspects of gameplay such as Character screens, Quest and Deed Logs, a Social Panel where players can interact, and a Crafting panel where players use skills to craft new items.<br /> <br /> ==Releases==<br /> ===Shadows of Angmar===<br /> :{{Main|The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar}}<br /> ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar|Shadows of Angmar]]'' was released on [[24 April|April 24]], [[2007]]. It included books 1 through 8 of Epic Volume I: Shadows of Angmar. Approximately once every two months a major free update was added to ''The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar''. Each update added a new book to the volume.<br /> <br /> ====Book 9: Shores of Evendim====<br /> {{#ev:youtubehd|VOEcXrbG4OI|200|thumb}}<br /> The first free content update was released on June 14, 2007.<ref>[http://www.lotro-europe.com/news.php?id=3611&pagename=home&search=yes&keyword=Book%209 Book 9: Shores of Evendim Release Date Announced]</ref><br /> <br /> Updates included:<br /> *A new region - [[Evendim]] - is added, including locations like [[Annúminas]].<ref name="book9">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/news/pressreleases/136-book-9-shores-of-evendim-release-date-announced|articlename=Book 9: Shores of Evendim Release Date Announced!|dated=5 June 2007|website=LOTRO|accessed=19 February 2012}}</ref><br /> *The epic story is expanded with book 9, [[Shores of Evendim]]<ref name="book9"/><br /> *100 new quests are added.<ref name="book9"/><br /> *A 24-player raid is added, ''Battle for Helegrod''.<ref name="book9"/><br /> *Nine new monsters are added.<ref name="book9"/><br /> *New Collectible armour sets are added.<ref name="book9"/><br /> *Updates to the music system.<ref name="book9"/><br /> <br /> ====Book 10: The City of Kings====<br /> :{{Main|The City of Kings}}<br /> The second free-content update was released on August 21, 2007 in North America and on August 24, 2007 in Europe.<ref>| [http://www.lotro-europe.com/news.php?id=3949&pagename=home&search=yes&keyword=Book%209 Codemasters Online and Turbine unveil Book 10: The City of the Kings]</ref><br /> <br /> Updates included:<br /> *Continuation of the Story Line. <br /> *Legendary Play – Players can now use Destiny Points to play as a Ranger of the North or as a Troll.<br /> *Critter Play – Players can now explore Middle-earth from a different viewpoint as a chicken.<br /> *New Reputation and Bartering Systems – The Reputation system enables players to earn positive and negative standing with different races and groups in Middle-earth based on both monster kills and quest completions. The Bartering system allows players to trade trophies earned in battle for rewards, such as armour sets or mounts.<br /> *Over 100 new Quests.<br /> *More customizable user interface.<br /> <br /> ====Book 11: Prisoner of the Free Peoples====<br /> :{{Main|Prisoner of the Free Peoples}}<br /> The third free-content update was released on October 24, 2007 in North America<ref>[http://www.lotro.com/article/430 Turbine and Codemasters Online Gaming to Unveil Book 11: Defenders of Eriador for The Lord of the Rings Online]</ref> and October 25 in Europe.<ref>[http://www.lotro-europe.com/news.php?id=4661&articletype=News Codemasters Online and Turbine to unveil Book 11: Defenders of Eriador]</ref><br /> <br /> Updates included ([http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Book_11_Official complete release notes]):<br /> *Continuation of the Epic Story arc, including 13 quests.<br /> *Player housing – players will be able to customize their houses with items such as furniture and doormats. <br /> *Second raid called "The Rift" – 12-player raid in which players encounter a [[Balrogs|Balrog]] for the first time. Turbine has stressed that this is not the [[Durin's Bane|Balrog from Khazad-dûm]].<ref>[http://lotro.tentonhammer.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=287 Book 11 Preview: The Balrogs are Coming]</ref><br /> *Two new areas – Tâl Bruinen in the Trollshaws, where [[Gollum]] will be introduced for the first time, and Goblin-town in the [[Misty Mountains]], featured in ''The Hobbit''.<br /> *More than 100 new quests.<br /> <br /> ====Book 12: The Ashen Wastes====<br /> :{{Main|The Ashen Wastes}}<br /> The fourth free content update was released on February 13, 2008 in North America; and February 14, 2008 in Europe.<br /> <br /> Updates included ([http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Book_12_Official complete release notes]):<br /> *Continuation of the Story Line. <br /> *Character customization - Increased character customization "ranging from haircuts, to some (possible) additions to the trait-system." In addition, the Outfit system, along with special social clothing designed just for it, will be introduced where a second or third set of clothing can be slotted and displayed while retaining the statistical bonuses of the currently equipped items.<ref>[http://lotro.stratics.com/content/hoclog/hoc10.php Lord of the Rings Online: House of Commons ]</ref><br /> *The Delving of Frór - A new Monster Play PVE (and PVMP under certain circumstances) area was introduced: An expanse of caves and catacombs located beneath the Ettenmoors.<br /> *The Great Angmar Revamp - A revamp of the most high-level region of the game's current 9 PvE regions. The revamp included the reworking of many quests, areas and other changes, such as new horse routes.<br /> *Barbershop - You can customize the look of your avatar in-game with around 50 new haircuts and second set of details.<br /> *Updates to the Burglar, Guardian, and Champion classes.<br /> <br /> ====Book 13: Doom of the Last-King====<br /> :{{Main|Doom of the Last-King}}<br /> The fifth free content update was released on April 24, 2008 in North America and on May 1, 2008 in Europe.<br /> <br /> Updates included ([http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Book_13_Official complete release notes]):<br /> *A new playable map area: the Ice Bay of [[Forochel]].<br /> *Players being able to see the ocean for the first time, confirmed as the Ice Bay of Forochel in recent developer chats.<br /> *Fishing - the first of a new system in ''Lord of the Rings Online'', called 'hobbies'.<br /> *New PVMP Monster Healing Class - Orc Defiler.<br /> *Looking For Fellowship- and Quest-panel improvements.<br /> <br /> ====Book 14: The Ring-forges of Eregion====<br /> :{{Main|The Ring-forges of Eregion}}<br /> The sixth free content update was released on July 22, 2008 in North America. It was released on July 24, 2008 in Europe.<br /> <br /> Updates included ([http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Book_14_Official complete release notes]):<br /> *Climax of the "Shadows of Angmar" storyline.<br /> *Added selected sections of [[Eregion]] (Region leading towards the Gates of Moria).<br /> *Epic Quest events that will allow interaction between players regardless of server.<br /> *Prelude quests for and leading up to the ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria|Mines of Moria]]'' expansion, which would have updates leading to Lothlórien, Fangorn, Rhovanion and Rohan.<br /> <br /> ====Book 15: Daughter of Strife====<br /> :{{Main|Daughter of Strife}}<br /> The seventh free content update was released on November 18, 2008. This update was released in tandem with the Mines of Moria expansion for players who did not purchase the expansion release.<br /> <br /> Updates included ([http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Category:Epic_-_Vol._I,_Book_15:_Daughter_of_Strife_Quests Epic - Vol. I, Book 15: Daughter of Strife Quests epic]):<br /> *Conclusion of the "Shadows of Angmar" storyline.<br /> *Added the zone of Eregion expanding on the selected sections from Book 14. The zone does not include the Hollin Gate leading to the Black Pool.<br /> *Added UI enhancements<br /> <br /> ===Mines of Moria Expansion===<br /> :''Main article [[The Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria]]''<br /> ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria|Mines of Moria]]'' was released on [[18 November|November 18]], [[2008]]. It included Vol. II books 1 through 6 of the epic quest line. Like ''Shadows of Angmar'', ''Mines of Moria'' continued to regularly release updates. Updates were less frequent than Shadows of Angmar. <br /> <br /> ====Book 7: Leaves of Lórien====<br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Leaves of Lórien.png|thumb|300px]]Book 7 was released on [[17 March]] [[2009]]. This update included:<br /> * Continuation of the Epic Storyline in Book 7, [[Leaves of Lórien]].<ref name="book7">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/book-spotlights/342-vol2book7|articlename=Volume II: Book 7: Leaves of Lórien Spotlight|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=19 February 2012}}</ref><br /> * Expansion of the Lothlórien Area, including [[Caras Galadhon]].<ref name="book7"/><br /> * A new raid, named ''Strange Happenings'', has been added.<ref name="book7"/><br /> * The [[Galadhrim]] are added as a new reputation faction.<ref name="book7"/><br /> * Crafting instances enable players to gather resources.<ref name="book7"/><br /> * The [[Ered Luin Introduction]] and, on lesser scale, the [[Bree-land Introduction]] are revamped.<ref name="book7"/><br /> * Several new Monster Play emotes are added.<ref name="book7"/><br /> <br /> ====Book 8: Scourge of Khazad-dum====<br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Scourge of Khazad-Dûm.png|thumb|300px]]Book 8 was released on June 23, 2009. This update included:<br /> *Book 8, [[Scourge of Khazad-dûm]], continues the epic story.<ref name="book8">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/book-spotlights/421-vol2-book8|articlename=Volume II: Book 8: Scourge of Khazad-dûm|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=19 February 2012}}</ref><br /> * A radiance-gated multi-boss, 12-man raid - named ''Dar Narbugud'' is added.<ref name="book8"/><br /> * One 6-man instance is added: ''The Halls of Crafting''.<ref name="book8"/><br /> * Two 3-man instances are added:<br /> ** ''Lumul-nar''<ref name="book8"/><br /> ** ''Nala-dum''<ref name="book8"/><br /> * Continuation of the revamp of the [[Bree-land Introduction]].<ref name="book8"/><br /> * The Crafting system has been revived.<ref name="book8"/><br /> <br /> ===Siege of Mirkwood Expansion===<br /> :''Main article [[The Lord of the Rings Online: Siege of Mirkwood]]''<br /> ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Siege of Mirkwood|Siege of Mirkwood]]'' was released on December 1, 2009 in North America and December 3, 2009 in Europe. Unlike the second expansion this edition was only available via a web-based download. It included Book 9 and the epilogue of Volume II: Mines of Moria. <br /> <br /> Kate Paiz, Executive Producer for ''The Lord of the Rings Online'', released a letter on October 22, 2010 stating that updates will be more frequent but will not always be accompanied with a new book continuing the epic story.<ref>[http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/866-producers-letter-october-2010 Producer's Letter, October-2010] lotro.com, Dev Diaries</ref><br /> <br /> ====Book 1: Oath of the Rangers====<br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Oath of the Rangers.png|300px|thumb]]:''Main article [[Oath of the Rangers]]''<br /> Book 1 was released on [[1 March|March 1]], [[2010]].<ref> [http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=320404 Volume III: Allies of the King has arrived!]</ref><br /> <br /> Updates include ([http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Volume_3_Allies_of_the_King_Official complete release notes]):<br /> * The beginning of Volume III in the epic storyline.<br /> * The ability to solo the Volume I epic storyline.<br /> * A duo mode for most skirmishes.<br /> <br /> ====Book 2: Ride of the Grey Company====<br /> :''Main article [[Ride of the Grey Company]]''<br /> Book 2 was released on [[10 September|September 10]], [[2010]] in North America. ([[8 September|September 8]], [[2010]] for subscribers). It was delayed in Europe because of contractual reasons and was finally released on [[2 November]], almost two months after North America.<ref>[http://massively.joystiq.com/ Massively], [http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/10/29/v-e-me-day-lotro-europe-announces-launch-date-for-free-to-play/ V-E-ME Day: LotRO Europe announces launch date for free-to-play], dated [[29 October]], [[2010]] (accessed [[11 November]], [[2011]])</ref><br /> <br /> Updates included ([http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Volume_3_Book_2_Official complete release notes]):<br /> <br /> * New region: [[Enedwaith]].<br /> * ''Lord of the Rings Online'' Free to Play subscription.<br /> * Book 2 in the Volume III epic storyline.<br /> * Scalable instances.<br /> * Improvements to the vault, and a new wardrobe system for cosmetic items.<br /> * Updates to the Captain class.<br /> * The LOTRO store, where players may purchase convenience items. Points either earned through gameplay, through the VIP program or by being purchased.<br /> * The introduction of Lua Scripting.<br /> * DirectX 11 support.<br /> * Ranger session play.<br /> <br /> ====Update 1: Journey to Winter-Home====<br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Update 1 Journey to Winter-Home.png|300px|thumb]]The first post Free-to-play update was released in November 2010. Due to changes to how updates work this did not contain an epic book.<br /> <br /> Updates included: <br /> <br /> * A Barter Wallet for skirmish marks and anniversary tokens.<br /> * Opening of Moria, Lothlorien, Mirkwood and Enedwaith to free-to-play players. Volume II and Volume III will also be available, as well the legendary item system, and the level 65 level cap all to free-to-play players.<br /> * Vault improvements.<br /> * Tasks: a new quest type for all levels.<br /> * Improved reputation mounts.<br /> * Updates to the Lore-master and Rune-keeper classes.<br /> * Ered Luin starting area revamp.<br /> <br /> ====Update 2: Echoes of the Dead====<br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Update 2 Echoes of the Dead.png|300px|thumb]]The first update of 2011 was released on [[21 March|March 21]] in the United States and [[24 March|March 24]] for Europe.<br /> <br /> Updates included:<br /> <br /> * Two 3-man's, two 6-man's, and a 12-person raid were added for level 65 players.<br /> * A special item required to craft a First Age weapon which drops from the above raid.<br /> * Radiance was removed.<br /> * Legendary Items were updated.<br /> * Character panel and cosmetic system were revamped.<br /> * The Minstrel, Hunter and Burglar classes were updated.<br /> * Volume III Book 3: [[Echoes of the Dead]] was added.<br /> * Volume II was revamped and made soloable, including three instances which have been converted to skirmishes.<br /> * Improvements to the PvP starter tutorial.<br /> * [[Evendim]] was revamped, with [[Annúminas]] being scaled down to level 40.<br /> <br /> ====Update 3: Lost Legends of Eriador====<br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Update 3 Lost Legends of Eriador.png|300px|thumb]]''Lost Legends of Eriador'' was the third update. It was released on [[23 May|May 23]], [[2011]] and included: ([http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Update_3,_Lost_Legends_of_Eriador,_Official complete release notes]):<br /> <br /> * Two new 3-man scalable instances starting mid-game.<br /> * Two new skirmishes.<br /> <br /> ===Rise of Isengard Expansion===<br /> :''Main article [[The Lord of the Rings Online: Rise of Isengard]]''<br /> The third expansion for ''The Lord of the Rings Online'' is entitled ''Rise of Isengard''. The expansion was made available on September 27, 2011 and only as a digital download.<ref>[http://isengard.lotro.com/ The Lord of the Rings Online: Rise of Isengard Official Homepage]</ref><br /> <br /> ====Update 5: Armies of Isengard====<br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Update 5 Armies of Isengard.png|220px|thumb]]''Armies of Isengard'' was the first update published after the release of ''The Lord of the Rings Online: Rise of Isengard''. It was released on [[12 December]] [[2011]] and included ([http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Update_5,_Armies_of_Isengard,_Official complete release notes]):<br /> <br /> * Four new instances and a 12-man raid in and around [[Isengard]].<br /> * [[The Prince of Rohan|Book 5]] of [[Allies of the King|Volume III]] is released.<br /> * A new Instance finder, to form groups more easily.<br /> * Barter currencies of skirmishes, classic and instances are unified.<br /> * Changes to Reputation items.<br /> <br /> ====Update 6: Shores of the Great River====<br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Update 6 The Great River.png|220px|thumb]]''Shores of the Great River'' is the sixth update and was released on [[12 March]] [[2012]].<ref name="Update6&Riders"> {{webcite|author=Justin Olivetti|articleurl=http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/25/riding-into-rohan-lotro-maps-out-2012/|articlename=Riding into Rohan: LotRO maps out in 2012|dated=25 January 2012|website=Massively|accessed=29 January 2012}}</ref><ref name="Update6">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/game-manual/1775-update-6-great-river|articlename=Update 6 Great River|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=19 February 2012}}</ref><br /> <br /> *A new region, the [[Anduin|The Great River]], was added, featuring seven new areas - including [[Parth Celebrant]] - in the upper [[Anduin]]. <ref name="Update6"/><br /> *[[Mists of Anduin]], Book 6 of Volume III, was released, in which the player seeks the wisdom of [[Galadriel]] about troubling dreams and fights [[Easterlings]], Brigands and an ancient enemy of Rohan.<ref name="Update6"/><br /> *The ability to summon skirmish warriors outside skirmishes.<ref name="Update6"/><br /> *Updates to the Instance finder.<ref name="Update6"/><br /> *Currency-change in Monster Play: "Destiny" will be replaced with "Commendations". Commendations will be available for both Freeps and Creeps.<ref name="MP Currency change">{{webcite|author=Jaret Pruett|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1776-update-6-commendations-developer-diary|articlename=http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1776-update-6-commendations-developer-diary|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=19 February 2012}}</ref><br /> <br /> ====Update 7: Shades of the Past====<br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Update 7 Shades of the Past.png|thumb|220px]]''Shades of the Past'' is the seventh update<ref name="Update 7">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/1966|articlename=Update 7|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=12 May 2012}}</ref> and was released on 14 May, 2012.{{fact}}<br /> <br /> *Continuation of the aforementioned currency-change.<ref name="MP Currency change"/><br /> *A new skirmish, "Storm on Methedras".<ref name="Update 7"/><br /> *Revamp of the Fornost instance and Moria region.<ref name="Update 7"/><br /> <br /> ===Riders of Rohan Expansion===<br /> :''Main article [[The Lord of the Rings Online: Riders of Rohan]]''<br /> The fourth expansion for ''The Lord of the Rings Online'' is named ''Riders of Rohan''. The expansion was released on October 15, 2012. <ref name="Turbine">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/news/pressreleases/1736-warner-bros-interactive-entertainment-and-turbine-unveil-the-lord-of-the-rings-online-riders-of-rohan|articlename=WARNER BROS. INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT AND TURBINE UNVEIL THE LORD OF THE RINGS ONLINE™: RIDERS OF ROHAN™|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=30 January 2012}}</ref><br /> <br /> ====Update 9: Against the Shadow====<br /> ''Against the Shadow'' is the ninth update and was released December 17, 2012. <ref name="Update 9">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.tentonhammer.com/lotro/news/lotro-update-9-coming-december-17th|articlename=LOTROs Update 9 Coming December 17th|dated=|website=www.tentonhammer.com|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> *Three new three man instances.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/update-9-riders-rohan-instance-cluster-part-i|articlename=Riders of Rohan Instance Cluster, Part I|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> *Scaling of Dol Guldur instances.<br /> *Completion of Moria revamp.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/update-9-revisiting-mines-moria-part-ii|articlename=Developer Diary: Revisiting the Mines of Moria, Part II|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> *Ability to quickly travel to turn in quests.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/update-9-travel-quest-location-behind-scenes|articlename=Update 9 - Travel To Quest Location: Behind the Scenes|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> *Update to the Yule Festival.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/update-9-yule-festival|articlename=Update 9 - Yule Festival|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> *Combat revisions.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/update-9-combat-revisions|articlename=Update 9 - Combat Revisions|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> ====Update 10: Against the Shadow, Part II====<br /> ''Against the Shadow, Part II'' is the tenth update and was released March 6, 2013.<br /> <br /> *One six man instance and three twelve man raids.<ref name="Update 10">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/update-10-instance-cluster-developer-diary|articlename=Update 10 - Instance Cluster Developer Diary|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> *In Their Absence instance scaling.<ref name="Update 10"/><br /> *Mithril Coins, a new currency used for special services.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/update-10-mithril-coin-qa|articlename=Update 10 Mithril Coin Q&A|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> *Agility made Wardens' primary stat.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/update-10-warden-stat-change-agility-wardens|articlename=Update 10: Warden Stat Change – Agility Wardens!|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> *Changes to critical defense.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/update-10-critical-defence-revision|articlename=Update 10 - Critical Defence Revision|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> *Unification of currency for scaling instances.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/update-10-seals-and-medallion-conversion|articlename=Update 10 - Seals and Medallion Conversion Diary|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> ====Update 11: Treachery of the White Hand====<br /> ''Treachery of the White Hand'' is the eleventh update and was released May 13, 2013. <ref name="Update 11">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?511377-Update-11-Treachery-of-the-White-Hand-Release-Notes-Official|articlename=Update 11: Treachery of the White Hand Release Notes - Official|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> *A new region, Wildermore, located on the previously-inaccessible plateau in the north of East Rohan.<ref name="Update 11"/><br /> *[[Snows of Wildermore|Book 10]] of [[Allies of the King|Volume III]] is released.<ref name="Update 11"/><br /> *Updates to mounted combat.<ref name="Update 11"/><br /> *Hobbit presents, daily free random items with the ability to unlock more rolls with mithril coins.<ref name="Update 11"/><br /> *Lalia's Market, a shop where cosmetic clothing and dyes can be purchased with mithril coins.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/lalias-market|articlename=Lalia’s Market Now Open in Bree-town!|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> ===Helm's Deep Expansion===<br /> :''Main article [[The Lord of the Rings Online: Helm's Deep]]''<br /> The fourth expansion for ''The Lord of the Rings Online'' is named ''Helm's Deep''. The expansion was released on November 20, 2013. <ref name="TenTonHammer">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.tentonhammer.com/lotro/news/turbine-temporarily-delays-lotro-helms-deep-launch|articlename=Updated: Turbine Temporarily Delays LOTROs Helms Deep Launch|dated=|website=www.tentonhammer.com|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref> After the Helm's Deep expansion, Turbine has discontinued for three years paid expansions in favor of quarterly updates with content free to VIPs. <ref name="Looking Ahead to 2014">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?535422-A-letter-from-Executive-Producer-Kate-Paiz-Looking-Ahead-to-2014|articlename=A letter from Executive Producer Kate Paiz - Looking Ahead to 2014|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> ====Update 13: The Breaking of Isengard====<br /> ''The Breaking of Isengard'' is the thirteenth update and was released April 14, 2014. <ref name="Update 13">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?546315-Update-13-The-Breaking-of-Isengard-%E2%80%93-Official-release-Notes|articlename=Update 13: The Breaking of Isengard – Official release Notes|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> *Release of a new landscape consisting of post-[[Battle of Isengard]] Nan Curunir as well as the Entwood<ref name="Update 13"/>, an area consisting of the south-western part of Fangorn.<br /> *The fourteenth and final book of [[Allies of the King|Epic Volume III: Allies of the King]], [[The Waters of Isengard]].<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/dev-diary-%E2%80%93-update-13-quest-notes|articlename=Dev Diary – Update 13 Quest Notes|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> *Misty Mountains, North Downs and Trollshaws region revamps.<ref name="Update 13"/><br /> *Resizable inventory bags.<ref name="Update 13"/><br /> *Level scaling from level 20 up for players in the Ettenmoors and temporary Ettenmoors passes for free-to-play purchasable with Mithril Coins.<ref name="Update 13"/><br /> <br /> ====Update 14: Paths of the Dead====<br /> ''Paths of the Dead'' is the fourteenth update and was released July 14, 2014. <ref name="Update 14">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?552272-Update-14-Paths-of-the-Dead-Release-Notes-amp-Known-Issues|articlename=Update 14: Paths of the Dead - Release Notes & Known Issues |dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> *Release of the West Gondor region, consisting of the areas the [[Paths of the Dead]], the [[Blackroot Vale]], [[Lamedon]], the Havens of [[Belfalas]], and [[Dol Amroth]]. <ref name="Update 14"/><ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/u14|articlename=Update 14: Paths of the Dead Now Available|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> *A new Epic series,<ref name="Update 14"/> [[The Strength of Sauron|Volume IV: The Strength of Sauron]], beginning with [[The Road to Gondor|Book 1: The Road to Gondor]].<br /> *The Essence System, allowing specially slotted armors to be fitted with a variety of Essences for customizable stats.<ref name="Update 14"/>.<br /> *Level cap increase to 100.<ref name="Update 14"/><br /> *The [[Dead Marshes]] region was added later in the minor Update 14.2, released September 15 2014. This area included a Session Play featuring Frodo, Samwise, and Gollum's passage through the marshes, casting the player character as Sam.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?555920-Update-14-2-Release-Notes|articlename=Update 14.2 Release Notes|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=28 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> ====Update 15: Gondor Aflame====<br /> ''Gondor Aflame''<ref name="U15 Announcement">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.lotro.com/en/u15|articlename=Update 15: Gondor Aflame Now Available|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref> is the fifteeth update and was released November 4, 2014. <ref name="Update 15">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?558300-Update-15-Release-Notes|articlename=Update 15 Release Notes|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> *The region of Central Gondor, consisting of [[Ringló Vale]], [[Dor-en-Ernil]], [[Lebennin]] and [[Pelargir]].<ref name="U15 Announcement"/><ref name="Update 15"/><br /> *Beorning race and class.<ref name="U15 Announcement"/><ref name="Update 15"/><br /> *Epic Volume IV [[The Dawnless Day (The Lord of the Rings Online)|Book 2: The Dawnless Day]].<ref name="Update 15"/><br /> *A new Epic Battle, Retaking Pelargir.<ref name="Update 15"/> Initially only available in solo/duo mode, a full fellowship version was released in February 4, 2015 with Update 15.2.<ref name="Update 15.2">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?&postid=7312886|articlename=Update 15.2 Release Notes|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=28 July 2015}}</ref><br /> *Roving Threats, a new type of open landscape group content.<ref name="Update 15"/> Additional Roving Threats were added to other regions of the game beginning with Update 15.2<ref name="Update 15.2"/><br /> <br /> ====Update 16: Ashes of Osgiliath====<br /> ''Ashes of Osgiliath'' is the sixteenth update and was released May 1, 2015.<ref name="Update 16">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?568045-Update-16-Ashes-of-Osgiliath-%E2%80%93-Official-Release-Notes|articlename=Update 16: Ashes of Osgiliath – Official Release Notes|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=27 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> *The region of Eastern Gondor, consisting of Upper Lebennin, Lossarnach, South Ithilien and Osgiliath.<ref name="Update 16"/><br /> *Epic Volume IV [[Voices of the Past|Book 3: Voices of the Past]].<ref name="Update 16"/><br /> *Cosmetic weapons and shields, more Roving Threats, and new PvMP map set in Osgiliath were released with Update 16.2 in July 17, 2015. A new quest series of weekly episodic content, following the adventures of the Hobbit Bingo Boffin, was begun the Wednesday after the update, on July 22.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?572512-Update-16-2-Release-Notes&p=7404279#post7404279|articlename=Update 16.2 Release Notes|dated=|website=LOTRO|accessed=28 July 2015}}</ref><br /> <br /> ====Update 17: The Siege of Minas Tirith====<br /> ''The Siege of Minas Tirith'' is the seventeenth update and was released 27 October 2015.<br /> <br /> *The region of Old Anórien, including [[Minas Tirith]], the [[Pelennor Fields]], and Talath Anor.<br /> *Epic Volume IV [[Siege of the White City|Book 4: Siege of the White City]]<br /> *New crafting tier, hidden cosmetic weapon toggle.<br /> *New Epic Battles: Defence of Minas Tirith, Hammer of the Underworld.<br /> <br /> ====Update 18: The Battle of Pelennor Fields====<br /> ''The Battle of Pelennor fields'' is the eighteenth update and was released 11 April 2016.<br /> <br /> *The region of Far Anórien, including [[Drúadan Forest|Taur Drúadan]], [[Warning beacons of Gondor|Beacon hills]], and the Pelennor Fields during the battle.<br /> *Instance cluster including two 3-man instances (The Quays of the Harlond, The Blood of the Black Serpent), one 6-man instance (The Silent Street) and a 12-man raid (Throne of the Dread Terror).<br /> *Epic Volume IV [[The Ride of the Rohirrim|Book 5: The Ride of the Rohirrim]] and [[The Battle of Pelennor Fields|Book 6: The Battle of Pelennor Fields]].<br /> <br /> ====Update 19: March of the King====<br /> ''March of the King'' is the nineteenth update and was released 14 October 2016.<br /> <br /> *The region March of the King, including [[North Ithilien]], after battle Minas Tirith, after battle Osgiliath, and after battle Pelennor Fields.<br /> *Flora barter system to exchange new gear for flowers.<br /> *Epic Volume IV [[March of the King|Book 7: March of the King]].<br /> <br /> ====Update 20: Battle of the Black Gate====<br /> ''Battle of the Black Gate'' is the twentieth update and was released 21 March 2017.<br /> <br /> *The region The Wastes, including Noman-lands, [[Slag-hills]] and [[Dagorlad]] which surround the [[Black Gate]].<br /> *New reputation items to exchange for armour.<br /> *Epic Volume IV [[Battle of the Black Gate|Book 8: Battle of the Black Gate]].<br /> <br /> ===Mordor Expansion===<br /> ''Mordor'' is the sixth expansion, and the twenty-first update, released on August 2nd, 2017.<br /> <br /> *The region Plateau of [[Gorgoroth]] includes five different areas, [[Udûn]], Dor Amarth, Lhingris, Talath Urui, and Agarnaith.<br /> *The conclusion of the Epic Questline (and Volume 4), with Book 9.<br /> *A new series of quests, the "Black Book of Mordor", becomes the main storyline after the conclusion of the Epic Quests. There are four chapters introduced in this update.<br /> *The Allegiance System is introduced, players can pledge to one of four factions to gain greater rewards in [[Mordor]]. They are the Kingdom of [[Gondor]], the Court of [[Lothlórien]], [[Durin's Folk]], and the Hobbits of the Company.<br /> *A new instance cluster is introduced, featuring a 3-man instance (The Court of Seregost), a 6-man instance (The Dungeons of Naerband), and a 12-man raid (The Abyss of Mordath).<br /> <br /> ===Update 22: Legacy of the Necromancer===<br /> ''Legacy of the Necromancer'' is the twenty-second update, released on March 6th, 2018.<br /> <br /> *The new region "[[Eryn Lasgalen]] and the Dale-lands" (otherwise known as the "Strongholds of the North" or "Northern Mirkwood"), features the Forest of Eryn Lasgalen (including the [[Halls of the Elven-king]] (known as Felegoth), The Dale-lands (featuring iconic locations such as The [[Long Lake]], [[Lake-town]], [[Dale]], and [[Ravenhill]]), and [[Erebor]], the Lonely Mountain.<br /> *Three new reputation factions are introduced; the "Elves of Felegoth", the "Men of Dale", and the "Dwarves of Erebor".<br /> *The Black Book of Mordor continues with two new chapters exploring the new region.<br /> <br /> ===Update 23: Where Dragons Dwell===<br /> ''Where Dragons Dwell'' is the twenty-third update, released on October 9th, 2018.<br /> <br /> *The new area "The Dwarf-holds", consists of two areas; The [[Iron Hills]], and [[Ered Mithrin]]. An expanded area of [[Erebor]] is also opened.<br /> *A new instance cluster is introduced, featuring two 3-man instances (Caverns of Thrumfall and Glimmerdeep), a six-man instance (Thikil-gundu), and a 12-man raid (The Anvil of Winterstith).<br /> *The Black Book of Mordor continues with two new chapters exploring the new areas.<br /> <br /> ==Added Elements==<br /> There are a number of elements that do not appear in any of the published works. This includes characters, lineages, objects and locations.<br /> <br /> ===Characters===<br /> * '''[[Amarthiel]]''' served the [[Witch-king]] of [[Angmar]] during his first reign over [[Angmar]]<ref>In the game the Witch-king reigned over Angmar again shortly before the [[War of the Ring]].</ref> and wore the [[lesser rings|lesser ring]] [[Narchuil]]. She was slain by [[Narmeleth]] at the [[Battle of Fornost]] and her soul wandered [[Middle-earth]] for over a thousand years. She managed to possess Narmeleth and disguised herself as Sara Oakheart. She eventually revealed herself after the defeat of [[Mordirith]] by [[Golodir]] and becomes the Regent of Angmar.<br /> <br /> <br /> * '''[[Andraste]]''' was a female [[Men|Man]] who served the [[Witch-king]].<br /> <br /> * '''[[Jon Brackenbrook]]''' was a [[Men|Man]] who was captain of [[Archet]].<br /> <br /> * '''[[Ronald Dwale]]''' was a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] from [[Dwalling]]. He was an author and a member of [[The Inklings (LOTRO)|the Inklings]], that meets in the [[Bird and Baby Inn]]. He was based on [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] himself.<br /> <br /> * '''[[Éogan]]''' was the second in command of the [[Blackwolds]] and took over leadership of the group after William Skunkwood's death.<br /> <br /> * '''The Huntsman''' was a spirit found in [[Enedwaith]] who took the shape of a large man with horns of a stag. Many players thought this was [[Oromë]]. The developers confirmed that it wasn't Oromë but a [[Maiar|Maia]] of Oromë.<ref>[http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?359604-big-D-small-d&p=4996860&highlight=#post4996860 big D, small d] [[Jonathan Rudder]], lotro.com forums</ref><br /> <br /> * '''[[Ivar the Bloodhand]]''' was a Gaunt-lord from the [[First Age]].<br /> <br /> * '''[[Mordirith]]''' was the Steward of Angmar.<br /> <br /> * '''[[Narmeleth]]''' was an elf maiden of [[Rivendell]] and daughter of [[Laerdan]]. She slew [[Amarthiel]] during the [[Battle of Fornost]] and became possessed by her soul over a thousand years later. <br /> <br /> * '''[[Mundo Sackville-Baggins]]''' was a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] who was mistakenly identified as having the ring. <br /> <br /> * '''[[William Skunkwood]]''' was the leader of the [[Blackwolds]].<br /> <br /> * '''[[Skorgrím]]''' was a dwarf and leader of the [[Dourhands]]. He was slain during the Battle of Edhelion. His corpse was used as a vehicle by Ivar the Bloodhand who possessed it with a fell spirit to trick the Dourhands to ally themselves with the forces of [[Angmar]].<br /> <br /> * '''[[Sambrog]]''' was the Wight-lord of the [[Barrow-downs]].<br /> <br /> ===Groups===<br /> * '''The [[Blackwolds]]''' were a group of [[Men|Mannish]] brigands from [[Bree-land]].<br /> <br /> * '''The [[Dourhands]]''' was a clan of dwarves aligned with the forces of [[Angmar]]. They were the dwarves that stayed behind to rebuild the Dwarven Halls in the [[Blue Mountains]] which were destroyed during the [[War of Wrath]].<br /> <br /> * '''The [[Inklings (Shadows of Angmar)|Inklings]]''' are a group of [[Hobbits|Hobbit]]-authors who discuss literature. They meet each other in the [[Bird and Baby Inn]]. Prominent members are [[Ronald Dwale]] ([[J.R.R. Tolkien]]), [[Owen Farfield]] ([[Owen Barfield]]), [[Carlo Williams]] ([[Charles Williams]]) and [[Jack Lewisdown]] ([[C.S. Lewis]]). The group and members are based on the real [[Inklings]]<br /> <br /> ===Objects===<br /> * '''[[Narchuil]]''' was one of the [[lesser rings]] forged by the elven-smiths during the [[Second Age]].<br /> <br /> ===Locations===<br /> * '''[[Agamaur]]''' was a vast swamp of the [[Lone-lands]]. It was a site of a major battle between [[Arthedain]], [[Cardolan]] and [[Rhudaur]]. To the west were the ruins of Ost Guruth, a fortress of [[Arnor]] claimed by the nomadic Eglain. To the east lay the ruins of Garth Agarwen, a fortress of Rhudaur ruled by [[Hill-men]] loyal to the mysterious Red Maid.<br /> <br /> * '''[[Esteldin]]''' was a ruin of Arnor in the [[North Downs]]. At the time of the [[War of the Ring]], it was used as a base of operations by the [[Rangers of the North]].<br /> <br /> *'''[[Falathlorn]]''' was a green and beautiful region of the [[Ered Luin]] favored by the Elves. It contained the Elvish havens of Duillond and Celondim. Not far from this region were the chilly Low-lands, site of the Dwarvish cities Gondamon and Kheledul.<br /> <br /> *'''[[Galtrev]]''' was one of the largest towns of [[Dunland]], the nominal capitol of the country.<br /> <br /> *'''[[Maur Tulhau]]''' was a [[Stoors|Stoorish]] Hobbit village in [[Enedwaith]] located in the forbidding Gloomgens. It was an remnant of the time when the Stoors lived in this region before most of their number moved north to [[The Shire]].<br /> <br /> * '''[[Othrongroth]]''' was the oldest and largest Edain mound in the [[Barrow-downs]].<br /> <br /> *'''[[Stangard]]''' was a [[Rohirrim]] settlement near the Great River [[Anduin]]. Its inhabitants were mostly exiles sent to protect [[Rohan]]'s outer borders.<br /> <br /> * '''[[Tinnudir]]''' was an island in [[Lake Evendim]]. It was used as a headquarters by a group of Rangers called the Wardens of [[Annúminas]], protectors of the ancient capitol of Arnor.<br /> <br /> ===Structures===<br /> * '''[[Bird and Baby Inn]]''' was an inn in [[Michel Delving]].<br /> <br /> ==Servers==<br /> ===American servers===<br /> All American servers are hosted by [[Turbine]].<br /> *[[Arkenstone]]<br /> *[[Moria|Dwarrowdelf]]<br /> *[[Gladden River|Gladden]]<br /> *[[Meneldor]]<br /> *[[Celebrant|Silverlode]]<br /> *[[Brandywine]]<br /> *[[Elendilmir]]<br /> *[[Rivendell|Imladris]]<br /> *[[Nimrodel]]<br /> *[[Landroval]]<br /> *[[Rohan|Riddermark]]<br /> *[[Windfola]]<br /> <br /> ===European servers===<br /> The European servers were originally created and hosted by [[Codemasters]], but on [[1 June]] [[2011]] Lotro Europe was taken over by Turbine, who currently host the European servers.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.casualstrolltomordor.com/2011/04/turbines-lotro-service-goes-global/|articlename=Turbine's LOTRO Service Goes Global|dated=24 April 2011|website=A Casual Stroll to Mordor|accessed=2 January 2012}}</ref><br /> <br /> ==License==<br /> <br /> For ''The Lord of the Rings Online'', [[Turbine]] has licensed the rights to the content and lore of ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. Turbine does not have license rights to the [[New Line Cinema]] film trilogy nor ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', ''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]'' books or ''[[The Children of Húrin]]''.<br /> <br /> ==Discrepancies from the source material==<br /> ''The Lord of the Rings Online'' does not follow the story as told in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', but rather tells stories about events that happened during the same time period as the events told in J.R.R. Tolkien's book<br /> <br /> ==Reception==<br /> ''The Lord of the Rings Online'' has been received very positively thus far, as reviews continue to appear since the game's initial release.<ref>[http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/middleearthonline Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar, The - Review] metacritic.com</ref><br /> <br /> GameDaily awarded the game 9/10, praising its rich, fantasy-themed universe, well-integrated trait and title system, and a story that remains true to the works of Tolkien. Yahoo! Video Games wrote a review with few negative mentions, awarding the game a score of 4/5,<ref>[http://videogames.yahoo.com/gamereview?cid=1990963744&tab=reviews&page=0&eid=513259 The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar Review] Yahoo! Games</ref> while ''Computer and Video Games'' called the game an essential purchase for ''Lord of the Rings'' fans, scoring the game a 9.2/10.<ref>[http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=161846&skip=yes PC Review: Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar] ''Computer and Video Games''</ref> Eurogamer scored the game a 9.0/10, calling it tough to resist.<ref>[http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=75657 Review - Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar] Eurogamer</ref> Gamespy gave it 4.5/5 stars, claiming the game "opened up Middle-Earth to the masses" but commented negatively on its weak PvP content,<ref>[http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/lord-of-the-rings-online-shadows-of-angmar/785884p1.html The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar Review] GameSpy</ref> while GameTrailers awarded it 8.5/10,<ref>[http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=754 The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar] Game Trailers</ref> citing its interesting tweaks to the MMO genre. IGN.com ranked it a similar 8.6/10, praising it for its solid experience, though criticizing it for its lack of major improvements to the genre.<ref>[http://pc.ign.com/articles/787/787942p3.html The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar Review] IGN</ref> GamerNode.com awarded the game an 8.8/10, calling it the best MMO launch experience since ''Ultima Online''.<ref>[http://www.gamernode.com/PC/Reviews/2848-Lord-of-the-Rings-Online-Review/index.html Lord of the Rings Online] GamerNode</ref> The ''New York Times'' called the game "a major achievement of interactive storytelling, the first game truly worthy of the ‘Lord of the Rings' franchise and a must-play for just about anyone with an interest in Tolkien or the future of online entertainment."<ref>[http://lotro.turbine.com/article/356 Lord of the Rings Online Press Release] Lord of the Rings Online</ref> In a GameSpot review, the product was awarded an 8.3/10, praising its appealing polish and intriguing Monster Play feature.<ref>[http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/middleearthonline/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=topten&tag=topten;all;score;5 The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar for PC Review] GameSpot</ref> Gamepro.com's review gave it an overall 4.25/5, pointing out how engaging the epic quests are, as well as how faithful to the novels the game managed to stay.<ref>[http://gamepro.com/computer/pc/games/reviews/112000.shtml Review: The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar for PC] Gamepro</ref> GameSpy declared ''The Lord of the Rings Online'' 'Game of the Month' for May 2007.<ref>[http://uk.gamespy.com/articles/795/795353p2.html Game of the Month: May 2007] GameSpy</ref><br /> <br /> ==Awards==<br /> <br /> In August 2007, Codemasters announced that ''The Lord of the Rings Online'' had received five Golden Joystick Awards nominations for the five applicable categories for the game,<ref>[http://newsrss.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6925679.stm Music and vice top games awards] BBC News</ref> and in October 2007 that it had won the "PC Game of the Year" at these awards.<ref>[http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7693&Itemid=2 Gears Wins Big at Game Awards] Next-Generation</ref> and again won the same award on October 2008. In December 2007, GameSpy awarded ''The Lord of the Rings Online'' 6th place in the top 10 PC games of 2007.<ref>[http://goty.gamespy.com/2007/pc/6.html GameSpy's Game of the Year 2007] GameSpy</ref> On December 18, Turbine announced it had also won the GameSpy MMO of the Year award.<ref>[http://www.lotro.com/article/476 LOTRO Wins Top Honors from Gamespy!] Lord of the Rings Online</ref> In January 2009, mmorpg.com awarded Turbine both MMORPG studio of the year 2008<ref>[http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/45/feature/2574/Best-MMO-Studio-of-2008-Winner MMORPG.com Best MMO Studo of 2008] mmorpg.com</ref>, and MMO Expansion of the Year for ''Mines of Moria''.<ref>[http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/45/feature/2579 MMORPG.com Best Expansion of 2008] mmorpg.com</ref><br /> <br /> ==Subscription Model==<br /> [[File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Free to Play.png|300px|thumb]]<br /> In North America, players who pre-ordered the game were offered a special founder's offer, a lifetime subscription for $199 or reduced cost of $9.99 per month. Standard monthly fee is $14.99 with three, six, twelve month, and lifetime discounts available. European players had a similar program from Codemasters. <br /> <br /> A Holiday subscription was available in December of 2007 and January of 2008 for $9.99/month for a 3 month commitment. A one year anniversary addition includes a $9.99/month subscription or a $199.99 Lifetime subscription, which was again offered during the lead up to the release of Mines of Moria.<br /> <br /> Warner Bros. announced on June 4, 2010 that Lord of the Rings Online will offer a free-to-play model starting in the fall of 2010.<ref>[http://turbine.com/news/105-warner-bros-interactive-entertainment-announces-the-lord-of-the-rings-online-to-adopt-global-free-to-play-model.html Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment Announces The Lord of the Rings Online™ to Adopt Global Free-to-Play Model] Turbine, Inc</ref> On August 18, 2010, Warner Bros. announced that the free-to-play model would go live on September 10, 2010. On October 21, 2010, [[Codemasters]] announced that a preview of Free-to-Play would be available in Europe on October 25, 2010.<ref>[http://community.lotro-europe.com/news.php?id=10839&pagename=news&type=news The Lord of the Rings Online Europe Preview Event]</ref><br /> <br /> ==External Links==<br /> * '''[http://lotro.com Official website]'''<br /> ** '''[http://forums.lotro.com/ LOTRO Community Website]''' , the official ''Lord of the Rings Online'' forums<br /> <br /> {{notes}}<br /> {{references}}<br /> <br /> {{lotro}}<br /> {{Videogames}}<br /> {{title|italics}}<br /> {{DEFAULTSORT:Lord of the Rings Online}}<br /> [[Category:The Lord of the Rings Online| ]]<br /> [[Category:Open world games]]<br /> [[Category:Role playing games]]<br /> [[Category:Turbine games]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Beorn&diff=304934 Beorn 2019-05-31T13:53:52Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by 70.67.16.199 (talk) to last revision by Sage</p> <hr /> <div>{{disambig-two|the [[skin-changer]]|uncle of [[Eriol]]|[[Beorn (son of Heden)]]}}<br /> {{northmen infobox<br /> | name=Beorn<br /> | image=[[File:Lelia - Beorn.jpg|250px]]<br /> | caption="Beorn" by [[:Category:Images by Lelia|Lelia]]<br /> | pronun=<br /> | othernames=<br /> | titles=<br /> | position=<br /> | location=[[Beorn's Hall]]<br /> | affiliation=[[Thorin and Company]], [[Beornings]]<br /> | language=[[Westron]]<br /> | birth=<br /> | birthlocation=<br /> | rule=<br /> | death=between {{TA|2941}} and {{TA|3018|n}}<br /> | deathlocation=<br /> | age=<br /> | notablefor=being a [[Skin-changers|Skin-changer]]<br /> | house=<br /> | parentage=<br /> | siblings=<br /> | spouse=<br /> | children=[[Grimbeorn]]<br /> | gender=Male<br /> | height=Tall<br /> | hair=Black<br /> | eyes=<br /> | clothing=Woollen tunic <br /> | weapons=<br /> | steed=<br /> }}<br /> '''Beorn''' was a [[Skin-changers|Skin-changer]], a man who could assume the form of a [[bears|bear]]. <br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> [[File:Jef Murray - At the Carrock.jpg|[[Jef Murray]] - ''At the Carrock''|thumb|left]]<br /> His origins lay in the distant past, and [[Gandalf]] suspected he and his people had originally come from the mountains, until the [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains]] drove them away. He lived with his tame [[horses]] in a wooden house ([[Beorn's Hall]]) between the [[Misty Mountains]] and [[Mirkwood]], to the east of the [[Anduin|Great River]] of [[Rhovanion|Wilderland]]. <br /> <br /> Beorn named the [[Carrock]] and created the steps that led from its base to the flat top. Once Gandalf saw him as a bear sitting all alone on the top of the Carrock watching the moon sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and heard him growl in the tongue of bears "''The day will come when [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains|they]] will perish and I shall go back!''". While Gandalf knew him, Beorn did not know Gandalf; but he knew his fellow wizard, [[Radagast]].<ref name=Queer/> <br /> <br /> During the [[Quest of Erebor]], Beorn received Gandalf, [[Bilbo Baggins]] and the thirteen [[Dwarves]] and gave the Dwarves and Bilbo help in their quest.<ref name=Queer>{{H|Queer}}</ref><br /> <br /> In the [[Battle of Five Armies]], Beorn appeared transformed into a giant bear, rescued [[Thorin]] from the [[Orcs|Goblins]] and killed their leader, [[Bolg]].<ref name=H18>{{H|18}}</ref><br /> <br /> After Thorin's burial, Beorn followed Bilbo, Gandalf and [[Thranduil]] on their way back to the west. Beorn once more hosted Bilbo and Gandalf and other [[Woodmen]] who came to celebrate [[Yule]].<ref name=H18/><br /> <br /> Eventually, he became a "''great chief''" in the [[Vales of Anduin]], and it is said that his descendants also were skin-changers, able to take the shape of a bear.<ref name=H18/> His people became known as the [[Beornings]],<ref>[[J.R.R. Tolkien]], ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', ''passim''</ref> and they helped defend [[Thranduil]]'s kingdom of northern Mirkwood.<ref>{{App|B3}}</ref>{{fact}} <br /> <br /> Beorn presumably died some time before the [[War of the Ring]] began<ref>{{L|144}}</ref> and was succeeded by his son [[Grimbeorn|Grimbeorn the Old]].<ref>{{FR|II1}}</ref><br /> <br /> ==Character==<br /> Beorn was generally benevolent and hated goblins and wargs; but he was also a loner and distrustful of travelers and beggars. He was never polite, and became easily angry and appalling. He never invited people into his house and his very few friends, who lived a good way away, came no more than a couple to his house at a time. Added to this, Beorn was not fond of [[Dwarves]].<br /> <br /> Although fierce to his enemies, once convinced of the others' goodwill, he was welcoming, generous and helpful.<br /> <br /> He did not eat any meat, as he could talk with his animals, who helped him. His grove was occupied by huge [[bees]]. Beorn's diet was mainly honey and cream.<br /> <br /> ==Etymology==<br /> ''[http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beorn Beorn]'' is an [[Old English]] word meaning "a warrior, a hero, a man of valour" (also, poetic "man"), cognate to [[North Germanic languages|Old Norse]] ''[http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bj%C7%ABrn björn]'' ("bear").<ref name=AH164>{{HM|AH}}, pp. 164-5</ref><ref name=RW>{{HM|RW}}, pp. 95-6</ref><ref>{{HM|RC}}, p. 207</ref> In the Scandinavian-speaking countries ''Björn''/''Bjørn'' is a personal name, attested since the 11th century.<br /> <br /> ==Genealogy==<br /> {{familytree/start}}<br /> {{familytree| BEO | |BEO='''BEORN'''</br><small>''fl. {{TA|2941}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree| |!| | |}}<br /> {{familytree| GRI | |GRI=[[Grimbeorn]]</br><small>''fl. {{TA|3019}}''</small>}}<br /> {{familytree/end}}<br /> <br /> ==Other versions of the Legendarium==<br /> In early manuscripts of ''[[The Hobbit]]'', the name of the character that would become Beorn is ''Medwed''. Medwed's ability to change shape to a bear was due to an enchantment, perhaps of his own.<ref>{{HH|Medwed}}</ref> The similarity between ''Medwed'' and ''[http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/medved Medved]'', the Russian word for "bear", is striking, but it is ultimately unknown if Tolkien had this in mind.<br /> <br /> In the [[The Etymologies|''Etymologies'']], [[Ilkorin]] ''[[ber]]'' ("valiant man, warrior") and [[Danian]] ''[[Beorn (Nandorin)|beorn]]'' ("man") derive from the [[Elvish]] [[Sundocarme|root]] [[BER]].<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, p. 352 (root BER-; cf. root [[BES|BES-]])</ref><br /> <br /> ==Inspiration==<br /> It has been suggested that the character Beorn was influenced by the Norse ''[[wikipedia:Hrólfs saga kraka|Saga of Hrólfr Kraki]]''.<ref name=RME73>[[Tom Shippey]], ''[[The Road to Middle-earth]]'' (second edition), pp. 73-4</ref> In the saga appears a great bear defending [[wikipedia:Hrólfr Kraki|Hrólfr Kraki]], and also a man cursed to being transformed into a bear during nighttime. The work was well-known to [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], as one of his students and friend, Stella Miller, made [[The Saga of Hrolf Kraki|a translation of the saga]] dedicated to Tolkien, [[E.V. Gordon]] and C.T. Onions;<ref name=AH164/> but even more importantly as Tolkien himself wrote an unpublished short story of the tale, entitled ''[[Sellic Spell]]''.<ref>{{HM|MB}}, pp. 256-60</ref><br /> <br /> Another suggested inspiration is the character of [[Beowulf (poem)|Beowulf]], "''whose name is commonly explained as Beowulf = 'bees' wolf' = honey-eater = bear, and one who breaks swords, rips off arms and cracks ribs with ursine power and clumsiness.''"<ref name=RME73/><br /> <br /> ==Portrayal in adaptations==<br /> {{Gallery<br /> |title=Beorn in adaptations<br /> |height=150<br /> |width=250<br /> |lines=2<br /> |File:Glen Michael Angus - Beorn.jpg|Beorn in ''[[Middle-earth Role Playing]]''<br /> |File:Stefano Baldo - Beorn.jpg|Beorn in ''[[Middle-earth Collectible Card Game|MECCG]]''<br /> |File:The Hobbit - The Desolation of Smaug - Beorn.jpg|Beorn in [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]<br /> |File:The Hobbit - The Desolation of Smaug - Beorn as a bear.png|Beorn in bear form in [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]<br /> }}<br /> '''1982-97: ''[[Middle-earth Role Playing]]'':'''<br /> : Beorn is one of the Lords of the Beijabar (Beornings). His manor is called Muidwe Beorn.<ref>{{ICE|8003}}, p. 19</ref><ref>{{ICE|2019}}, pp. 105-6</ref><br /> <br /> '''1995-8: ''[[Middle-earth Collectible Card Game]]'':'''<br /> : Beorn is a Character, with the Home Site Beorn's House.<br /> <br /> '''2003: [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]:'''<br /> : In the GBA version, Beorn is visited after Thorin and Company depart from the Carrock. In the console and PC versions, Beorn appears only during the Battle of Five Armies and the ending cutscene, both times in the shape of a black bear.<ref>[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]], "The Clouds Burst"</ref><br /> <br /> '''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]<br /> : [[Mikael Persbrandt]] portrays Beorn.<ref name="AFTONBLADETCasting">{{webcite|articleurl=http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/film/article13349150.ab|articlename=Persbrandt den bäste för jobbet|dated=30-April-2011|website=[http://www.aftonbladet.se/ AFTONBLADET]|accessed=23-Dec-2011}}</ref> In ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]'', while in bear form, he picks up on the [[Thorin and Company|Company's]] trail and chases them into his [[Beorn's Hall|home]]. He stands guard overnight, thwarting the plans of [[Azog]] and his [[Orcs|Orc]] pack to attack. The next morning, he lends the Company some of his [[horses]] in order to get to [[Mirkwood]] before the Orcs. In ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'', he arrives with [[Radagast]] on the back of one of the [[Eagles]] late in the [[Battle of Five Armies|battle]], and leaps down to the ground, transforming into his bear form in midair. Along with the rest of the Eagles, he helps decimate the remaining Orc army. He is also present during the funeral of Thorin, Fili and Kili.<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> * [[:Category:Images of Beorn|Images of Beorn]]<br /> <br /> {{references}}<br /> [[Category:Northmen]]<br /> [[Category:Beornings]]<br /> [[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]<br /> [[Category:Masculine names]]<br /> [[Category:Old English names]]<br /> [[Category:Third Age characters]]<br /> <br /> [[de:Beorn]]<br /> [[fi:Beorn]]<br /> [[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:hommes_du_nord:beornides:beorn]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Money&diff=304884 Money 2019-05-25T18:31:16Z

<p>Ederchil: Reverted edits by 174.209.0.88 (talk) to last revision by MadTux</p> <hr /> <div>'''Money''', specifically minted coin money, was used in the [[Westlands]] as early as the [[Third Age]].<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> In [[Gondor]], the chief currency was the [[Castar]]; a small silver coin known as the [[Tharni]] was worth one-fourth of a Castar.<ref>{{PM|Languages}}, p. 45</ref><br /> <br /> [[Azog]] threw a money purse at [[Nár]] containing "few coins of little worth" (which the Dwarves later stuffed in the mouth of Azog's decapitated head after his defeat).<ref>{{App|Durin}}</ref><br /> <br /> When [[Bilbo Baggins]] rushed from his door to meet [[Thorin]] and his party of dwarves at the [[Green Dragon|Green Dragon Inn]], he found himself outside without "a hat, a walking stick, or any ''money'', or anything that he usually took with him when he went out".<ref>{{H|Mutton}}</ref><br /> <br /> After the death of [[Smaug]] and the destruction of [[Esgaroth]] the people were angry at the [[Master of Lake-town]] and declared, "We have had enough of the old men and the ''money-counters''!" Others took up the cry of "Up with the Bowman (meaning [[Bard]]) and down with ''Moneybags''".<ref>{{H|Fire}}</ref><br /> <br /> Much of the gold and silver wealth of Dwarf-horde of Smaug appears to have been minted. [[Bilbo Baggins]] took home two chests from the horde, one containing gold and the other silver,<ref>{{H|Return}}</ref> and as a result (in addition to his family's pre-existing wealth) lived very comfortably for the next 50 years and was considered quite rich. In addition to the [[Hobbits of Bree]], the [[Hobbits of the Shire]] apparently dealt in coin money as well, otherwise they might not have been so eager to search [[Bag End]] after Bilbo left, looking for secret treasure rooms.<br /> <br /> Money was mentioned in relation to the trading town of [[Bree]]. At the end of the [[Third Age]], a pony was considered to be worth about four [[silver pennies]]. The well-to-do owner of the [[Prancing Pony]], [[Barliman Butterbur]], considered a loss of 30 silver pennies to be a considerable blow.<ref name="Knife">{{FR|I11}}</ref> A gold piece was regarded as a particularly extravagant reward for good news.<br /> <br /> Additionally, Bilbo is mentioned to have spent his last fifty ducats on the party in the first version of "A Long-expected Party".<ref name="HoME">{{RS|1Ii}}</ref><br /> <br /> When [[Aragorn]] and the four hobbits were camped on the side of [[Weathertop]], [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] wandered to the edge of the dell. Soon he came running back in fear and said, "I durstn't go outside this dell for any ''money''."<ref name="Knife"/><br /> <br /> ==Background Information==<br /> In ''[[The Complete Guide to Middle-earth]]'' by [[Robert Foster]], the entry for "Money" on page 344 makes it a point to say <br /> <br /> {{quote|'''contrary to the claims of some''', there are references to money in ''The Lord of the Rings''|The Complete Guide to Middle-earth'' - "Money"}} <br /> <br /> The above phrase suggests that (in the early days of [[Tolkien fandom]]) there was some belief that coin money used as actual "currency" did not exist in Middle-earth; references to money are scarce, not highlighted and obviously forgettable among the narrative.<br /> <br /> ==See Also==<br /> * [[Mirian]]/[[Castar]]<br /> * [[Canath]]/[[Tharni]]<br /> <br /> {{references}}<br /> [[Category:Currencies]]<br /> [[Category:Objects]]</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_White_Tree_Fund&diff=304783 Talk:The White Tree Fund 2019-05-10T20:13:16Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>All the webs related with this are taken down, both in the links of TG and the links they currently have: <br /> <br /> *http://www.whitetreefund.org/<br /> *http://olorispublishing.mymiddleearth.com/products/silver-leaves-journal/<br /> *http://www.olorispublishing.com/<br /> *http://news.mymiddleearth.com/<br /> <br /> I don't know what's suppoused to do in these cases.<br /> <br /> --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:16, 9 May 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :is an Archive.org version available? Though if they're no longer active, I don't think linking to an old version of a website is much use. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:13, 10 May 2019 (UTC)</div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Template:LR&diff=304519 Template:LR 2019-04-24T17:30:05Z

<p>Ederchil: fixed</p> <hr /> <div><noinclude>Citation template for ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings|The Lost Road and Other Writings: Language and Legend before ''The Lord of the Rings'']]''.</noinclude>{{#switch:{{{1|}}}<br /> | Preface | Preface = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Preface"<br /> | P1 | Fall = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part One: The Fall of Númenor and The Lost Road"<br /> | P1I | Early = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part One. The Fall of Númenor and The Lost Road: I. The Early History of the Legend"<br /> | P1II | Númenor = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part One: [[The Fall of Númenor|II. The Fall of Númenor]]"<br /> | P1II1 | P1II1 = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part One: [[The Fall of Númenor|II. The Fall of Númenor, (i) The original outline]]"<br /> | P1II2 | P1II2 = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part One: [[The Fall of Númenor|II. The Fall of Númenor, (ii) The first version of The Fall of Númenor]]"<br /> | P1II3 | P1II3 = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part One: [[The Fall of Númenor|II. The Fall of Númenor, (iii) The second version of The Fall of Númenor]]"<br /> | P1II4 | P1II4 = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part One: [[The Fall of Númenor|II. The Fall of Númenor, (iv) The further development of The Fall of Númenor]]"<br /> | P1III | Lost = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part One: III. [[The Lost Road]]"<br /> | P1III1 | P1III1 = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part One: III. [[The Lost Road|The Lost Road, (i) The opening chapters]]"<br /> | P1III2 | P1III2 = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part One: III. [[The Lost Road|The Lost Road, (ii) The Númenórean chapters]]"<br /> | P1III3 | P1III3 = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part One: III. [[The Lost Road|The Lost Road, (iii) The unwritten chapters]]"<br /> | P2 | Valinor = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part Two: Valinor and Middle-earth before ''The Lord of the Rings''"<br /> | P2I | Texts = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part Two: Valinor and Middle-earth before ''The Lord of the Rings'', I. The Texts and Their Relations"<br /> | P2II | AV = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part Two: Valinor and Middle-earth before ''The Lord of the Rings'', II. The Later Annals of Valinor"<br /> | P2III | AB = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part Two: Valinor and Middle-earth before ''The Lord of the Rings'', [[The Later Annals of Beleriand|III. The Later Annals of Beleriand]]"<br /> | P2IV | Ainu = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part Two: Valinor and Middle-earth before ''The Lord of the Rings'', IV. Ainulindalë"<br /> | P2V | Lhammas = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part Two: Valinor and Middle-earth before ''The Lord of the Rings'', [[The Lhammas|V. The ''Lhammas'']]"<br /> | P2VI | Quenta = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Part Two: Valinor and Middle-earth before ''The Lord of the Rings'', VI. ''Quenta Silmarillion''"<br /> | P3 | Etymologies = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "[[The Etymologies|Part Three: The Etymologies]]"<br /> | A | Appendix = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Appendix"<br /> | A1 | A1 = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Appendix: I. The Genealogies"<br /> | A2 | A2 = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Appendix: II. The List of Names"<br /> | A3 | A3 = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Appendix: III. [[The Second 'Silmarillion' Map]]"<br /> | Index | Index = [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', "Index"<br /> }}<noinclude><br /> ==Key==<br /> <pre><br /> <ref>{{LR|}}</ref><br /> </pre><br /> * '''Preface''' : "Preface"<br /> * '''P1''' ''or'' '''Fall''' : "Part One: The Fall of Númenor and The Lost Road"<br /> ** '''P1I''' ''or'' '''Early''' : "I. The Early History of the Legend"<br /> ** '''P1II''' ''or'' '''Númenor''' : "[[The Fall of Númenor|II. The Fall of Númenor]]"<br /> *** '''P1II1''' : "(i) The original outline"<br /> *** '''P1II2''' : "(ii) The first version of The Fall of Númenor"<br /> *** '''P1II3''' : "(iii) The second version of The Fall of Númenor"<br /> *** '''P1II4''' : "(iv) The further development of The Fall of Númenor"<br /> ** '''P1III''' ''or'' '''Lost''' : "III. [[The Lost Road]]"<br /> *** '''P1III1''' : "(i) The opening chapters"<br /> *** '''P1III2''' : "(ii) The Númenórean chapters"<br /> *** '''P1III3''' : "(iii) The unwritten chapters"<br /> * '''P2''' ''or'' '''Valinor''' : "Part Two: Valinor and Middle-earth before ''The Lord of the Rings''"<br /> ** '''P2I''' ''or'' '''Texts''' : "I. The Texts and Their Relations"<br /> ** '''P2II''' ''or'' '''AV''' : "II. The Later Annals of Valinor"<br /> ** '''P2III''' ''or'' '''AB''' : "[[The Later Annals of Beleriand|III. The Later Annals of Beleriand]]"<br /> ** '''P2IV''' ''or'' '''Ainu''' : "IV. Ainulindalë"<br /> ** '''P2V''' ''or'' '''Lhammas''' : "[[The Lhammas|V. The ''Lhammas'']]"<br /> ** '''P2VI''' ''or'' '''Quenta''' : "VI. ''Quenta Silmarillion''"<br /> * '''P3''' ''or'' '''Etymologies''' : "[[The Etymologies|Part Three: The Etymologies]]"<br /> * '''A''' ''or'' '''Appendix''' : "Appendix"<br /> ** '''A1''' : "Appendix: I. The Genealogies"<br /> ** '''A2''' : "Appendix: II. The List of Names"<br /> ** '''A3''' : "Appendix: III. [[The Second 'Silmarillion' Map]]"<br /> * '''Index''' : "Index"<br /> ==See also==<br /> * [[:Template:HM]]<br /> [[Category:The History of Middle-earth citation templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]</noinclude></div>

Ederchil https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=-nna&diff=304518 -nna 2019-04-24T17:29:26Z

<p>Ederchil: </p> <hr /> <div>'''''-nna''''' means "to, upon" in [[Quenya]], allative ending in '''cilyanna''', '''Endorenna''',<ref>{{RK|VI5}}, [[Elendil's Oath]]</ref><ref>{{PE|17}}, p.103</ref> '''Elendilenna''', '''Elenna''',<ref>{{S|Index}}</ref> '''númenna''', '''númenórenna''', '''rómenna''', '''tielyanna'''. Plural '''''-nnar''''' in '''mannar''', '''valannar'''.{{fact}}<br /> {{References}}<br /> {{DEFAULTSORT:nna}}<br /> [[Category:Quenya suffixes]]</div>

Ederchil