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Reason: Author request</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Bodyguard_of_Bolg&diff=320838Bodyguard of Bolg2020-09-27T08:09:28Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
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<div>[[File:The Hobbit - The Desolation of Smaug - Bolg in Lake-town.jpg|thumb|300px|right|Bolg in [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]]]<br />
[[File:The Hobbit - The Battle of the Five Armies - Berserker.jpg|thumb|300px|right|A member of bolg’s bodyguard, as seen in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]]]<br />
The '''Bodyguard of Bolg''' were a group of [[Orcs]] who served as the bodyguards to the Orc Chieftain [[Bolg|Bolg of the North]], son of [[Azog]], during the [[Battle of Five Armies]].<ref name="H17">{{H|17}}</ref><br />
==History==<br />
Upon the arrival of the Goblins to the Battle of Five Armies, as they filled the valley, with [[Bolg]], was his bodyguard. Of 'huge size' and armed with scimitars of steel.<br />
<br />
During the battle, [[Thorin|Thorin Oakensheild]] left [[Erebor]] and entered the fray. He drove against against the Bodyguard but could not break the Goblin's ranks.<ref name="H17"/> Later, he and the dwarves of his [[Thorin and Company|company]] were gathered in a ring as they fought and were driven against by the bodyguard.<ref name="H17"/><br />
<br />
<br />
After Thorin's defeat in the battle, [[Beorn]] arrived to his aid and carried him to safety, he returned swiftly to destroy the bodyguard of Bolg and then Bolg himself. <ref>{{H|18}}</ref><br />
<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]<br />
[[Category:Orcs]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Goblin-town&diff=314236Goblin-town2020-06-09T08:36:07Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: /* History */</p>
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<div>{{location infobox<br />
| name=Goblin-town<br />
| image=[[File:Paul Raymond Gregory - Glamdring.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Glamdring" by [[Paul Raymond Gregory]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| location=Central [[Misty Mountains]] east of [[Rivendell]]<br />
| type=City<br />
| description=A series of tunnels and caverns inhabited by Goblins<br />
| regions=<br />
| towns=<br />
| inhabitants=[[Orcs of the Misty Mountains]]<br />
| created=<br />
| destroyed=<br />
| events=[[Thorin and Company]] are captured by the Great Goblin<br />
}}<br />
'''Goblin-town''' was a [[Orcs#Goblins and Orcs|Goblin]] (or [[Orcs|Orc]]) dwelling which lay under the [[Misty Mountains]], ruled by the [[Great Goblin]].<br />
<br />
Goblin-town was a series of tunnels and caverns, which went all the way through the mountains, with a "back door" (the [[Goblin-gate]]) near the [[Eagle's Eyrie]] in [[Rhovanion|Wilderland]], which served as a means of escape, and an access to the Wilderland.<ref name=pan>{{H|Pan}}</ref> [[Gollum's cave|A cave]] with a lake was deep beneath Goblin-town yet was connected to the Goblins' tunnels, with one passage leading to the "back door".<ref name=rid>{{H|Riddles}}</ref><br />
==History==<br />
Around {{TA|2480}} the [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains]] started making secret strongholds in the mountains blocking the passages towards [[Eriador]].<ref name=ta/> [[Gollum]] had found his way in the cave below, feeding himself on raw fish and Goblins that he killed.<ref name=rid/><br />
<br />
The main gate of the town was in one of the passes of the Misty Mountains, but by {{TA|2941}}<ref name=ta>{{app|TA}}</ref> travellers learned to avoid that dangerous road and the goblins opened another under the safer [[High Pass]] (the [[Front Porch]]).<ref name=pan/><br />
<br />
During the journey to [[Lonely Mountain]], [[Thorin and Company]] rested in a cave and were captured by the Goblins. They were brought before the Great Goblin, who accused them of spying, and was enraged when he found that Thorin was carrying [[Orcrist]], a sword the Great Goblin remembered from [[Gondolin]]. With the help of [[Gandalf]], the Great Goblin was slain and Bilbo and the Dwarves escaped, pursued by force of Goblins.<ref>{{H|Hill}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
<br />
'''1977: [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]:'''<br />
:Goblin-town is, like in the book, a set of tunnels and caverns.<br />
<br />
'''1989: [[The Hobbit (comic book)|''The Hobbit'' (comic book)]]:'''<br />
:Goblin-town is, like in the book, a set of tunnels and caverns.<br />
<br />
'''2003: [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]:'''<br />
:Goblin-town is a giant Dwarven mining complex with many lifts, bridges and train carts to spice up the action of the level.<br />
<br />
'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br />
:Goblin-town is a large network of tunnels and caverns that is ruled by Ashûrz, the new "Great Goblin". Locations such as the Great Goblin's Throne Room and Gollum's Cave are visitable.<br />
<br />
'''2012: ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]'':'''<br />
:Goblin-town is portrayed as a giant system of caverns with sprawling wooden walkways. The goblins have a central hub of dwellings, with the Great Goblin's throne being in the center.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[Clap! Snap! The black crack!]]<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{companyroute}}<br />
[[Category:Cities, towns and villages]]<br />
[[Category:Evil realms]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=309697User:LordAndSaviourSauron2020-01-19T12:23:01Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
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<div>{{user infobox| name= LordAndSaviourSauron |userboxes= {{user evil}}{{User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Black Metal}}{{User Greece}}{{user lore-3}}{{user 2y}}}}<br />
Heyo<br />
<br />
[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Orc names|An orkish name list]]<br />
<br />
==Stuff I own==<br />
===Books===<br />
*[[The Hobbit]]<br />
*[[The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
*[[The Silmarillion]]<br />
*[[The Children of Hurin]]<br />
*[[Beren and Luthien]]<br />
<br />
===Films===<br />
*[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)]] Extended Editions<br />
*[[The Hobbit (film series)]] Extended Editions</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Sauron&diff=309048Sauron2019-12-16T14:41:17Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
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<div>{{Countdown}}<br />
{{evil infobox<br />
| name=Sauron<br />
| image=[[File:Alaïs - Annatar.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Annatar" by [[:Category:Images by Alaïs|Alaïs]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=[[Annatar]]<ref name="SRings"/><br />The Dark Lord<br />Lord Of Earth<ref name="SIndex"/><br />Gorthaur the Cruel<ref name="SVala">{{S|Vala}}</ref><br />Mairon<ref name="PE17.1"/><br />Necromancer<ref name="SIndex"/><br />The Shadow<br />The Enemy<br />The Terrible</br>'''Zigûr''' ([[Adûnaic|A]])<ref>{{HM|SD}}, "The Drowning of Anadûnê"</ref><br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Tol-in-Gaurhoth]]<br />[[Utumno]]<br />[[Angband]]<br />[[Númenor]]<br />[[Dol Guldur]]<br />[[Mordor]]<br />
| affiliation=[[Morgoth]]<br />
| language=[[Black Speech]]<br />
| birth=Before the [[Music of the Ainur]]<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=[[25 March]] {{TA|3019}} (Physical death)<br />
| deathlocation=[[Barad-dûr]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=Lieutenant to [[Morgoth]]<br/>Deceived the [[Elves]] into forging the [[Rings of Power]];<br />Created [[the One Ring]];<br />Brought about the [[Downfall of Númenor]];<br />Nearly conquered the whole of [[Middle-earth]]<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| race=[[Maiar|Maia]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=''[[Sauron#Appearance|See below]]''<br />
| hair=''[[Sauron#Appearance|See below]]''<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=''[[Sauron#Appearance|See below]]''<br />
| weapons=[[The One Ring]]<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
<center>{{Quote|Sauron [...] was only less evil than his [[Morgoth|master]] in that for long he served another and not himself.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]<ref name="SVala"/>}}</center> <br />
<br />
'''Sauron''' ([[Quenya]], pronounced {{IPA|[ˈsaʊron]}}) was the greatest and most trusted servant of [[Morgoth]] before and during the [[First Age]]. Originally a [[Maiar|Maia]] of [[Aulë]] named "Mairon", he was ensnared by Melkor and as "Gorthaur" he became Morgoth's lieutenant in his [[Wars of Beleriand]]. From his base of [[Tol-in-Gaurhoth]], Sauron was directly responsible for the death of [[Barahir]] and later the [[Noldor]]in king [[Finrod]] during the [[Quest for the Silmaril]]. He demonstrated the ability to take the form of a wolf, a serpent, and a vampire.<br />
<br />
After the downfall of his master, he continually strove to conquer [[Middle-earth]] throughout the [[Second Age|Second]] and [[Third Age|Third]] Ages. In the Second Age, under the guise of '''Annatar''', he deceived the [[Elves]] of [[Eregion]], who under his guidance had created the [[Rings of Power]], whilst he secretly forged [[the One Ring]] in [[Mount Doom]]. Thus Sauron became "'''[[Lord of the Ring|The Lord of the Rings]]'''". Failing to corrupt the Elves, he assaulted the [[Westlands]], beginning a period called the [[Dark Years]], when first time he became known as a '''[[Dark Lord]]'''. His influence corrupted the [[Númenóreans]] - leading to the destruction of [[Númenor]] - which led to [[Elendil]] founding the Realms in Exile of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]]. Elves and the [[Dúnedain]], the descendants of the Númenóreans, formed the [[Last Alliance]] and, in {{SA|3441}}, Elendil and Elven [[High King of the Noldor|High King]] [[Gil-galad]] died destroying Sauron's body. Following Sauron's defeat, Elendil's son [[Isildur]] took the One Ring.<br />
<br />
In the Third Age, Sauron returned to Middle-earth and, as the '''Necromancer''', took the hill of [[Amon Lanc]] as his fortress of [[Dol Guldur]]; his chief servant, the [[Witch-king]], formed the realm of [[Angmar]] in the north of [[Eriador]]. Following an attack by the [[White Council]] in {{TA|2941}}, Sauron returned to his fortress of [[Barad-dûr]] in [[Mordor]]. By {{TA|3018}} [[Frodo Baggins]] was in possession of the Ring, and he was led by [[Gandalf]] as a member of the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] in the [[Quest of the Ring]]. Whilst Sauron waged the [[War of the Ring]] against the [[Free peoples]] of Middle-earth, Frodo Baggins, [[Samwise Gamgee]] and now [[Gollum]] (who had lost the Ring to Frodo's cousin [[Bilbo Baggins|Bilbo]]) reached Mount Doom. On [[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}, they reached Mount Doom and the Ring was destroyed. The breaking of the Ring caused Sauron's ultimate fall and resulted in the start of the [[Fourth Age]] and the [[Dominion of Men]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Origin===<br />
As one of the [[Maiar]], Sauron was created by [[Ilúvatar]] before the [[Music of the Ainur]].<ref name="Ainu">{{S|Ainu}}</ref> At the beginning of Time, he was amongst the [[Ainur]] who entered into [[Eä]].<ref name="SVala">{{S|Vala}}</ref> Here he became one of the Maiar of [[Aulë]],<ref name="SVala"/> and was known as '''''Mairon'''''.<ref name="PE17.1">{{PE|17}}, p. 183</ref> <br />
<br />
Mairon's virtue was his love for order, planning and coordination, disliking confusion and chaos. But his obsession to order gradually overshadowed his love for the other intelligent beings of Arda, who would benefit from his planning; it became the sole object of his will, the end in itself. He started admiring [[Melkor]]'s power to realize his designs quickly and masterfully.<ref name=myths/> <br />
<br />
Early on (perhaps from the [[First War]]) he was ensnared by Melkor, becoming his greatest and most trusted servant.<ref name="SRings">{{S|Rings}}</ref> Unlike his master, he didn't object to the existence of the World, as long as he could do what he wanted with it.<ref name=myths>{{MR|Myths}}</ref> Thus he came to be known as '''''Gorthaur''''' by the [[Sindar]] of [[Beleriand]] and '''''Sauron''''' by others.<ref name="SIndex">{{S|Index}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Years of the Trees===<br />
After [[Morgoth|Melkor]] made his great fortress of [[Angband]] in the north-west of [[Middle-earth]], he appointed Sauron to be its commander.<ref name="SCaptivity">{{S|Captivity}}</ref> When the [[Valar]] captured Melkor at the [[Siege of Utumno]], they stormed and searched Utumno and Angband; they, however, failed to find Sauron.<ref name="SCaptivity"/><br />
<br />
===First Age===<br />
[[File:Maureval - Mairon.jpg|thumb|right|Maureval - ''Mairon'']]<br />
{{Blockquote|Sauron was become now a sorcerer of dreadful power, master of shadows and of phantoms, foul in wisdom, cruel in strength, misshaping what he touched, twisting what he ruled, lord of werewolves; his dominion was torment.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]<ref name="SFingolfin">{{S|Fingolfin}}</ref>}}<br />
With the unchaining of Morgoth and his subsequent destruction of the [[Two Trees|Two Trees of Valinor]], the [[Sun]] first rose and ushered in the awakening of [[Men]]. Leaving Sauron in command of the war, Morgoth left Angband in secret to find the second-born kindred of the [[Children of Ilúvatar]] and to corrupt them to his will.<ref name="SWest">{{S|West}}</ref><br />
<br />
After the fall of [[Fingolfin]], Sauron launched an attack on [[Tol Sirion]]. Utter fear descended upon [[Orodreth]] and those who defended the isle. Sauron assailed [[Minas Tirith (Beleriand)|Minas Tirith]] and turned it into a watch tower for Morgoth. Therein Sauron sat and Tol Sirion the fair became [[Tol-in-Gaurhoth]], the Isle of Werewolves.<ref name="SFingolfin"/><br />
<br />
Upon hearing of the deeds of [[Barahir]] and his companions, Morgoth ordered Sauron to find and kill them. [[Gorlim]], one of Barahir's companions, was captured and brought before Sauron. There Sauron promised that he would free Gorlim and his wife [[Eilinel]] in return for information. Under the terror of Sauron's eyes, Gorlim revealed everything he knew and thus the hiding place of Barahir was betrayed to the enemy. Subsequently, Sauron revealed Eilinel was dead and had Gorlim put to death.<ref name="Beren">{{S|Beren}}</ref><br />
<br />
[[Beren]], son of [[Barahir]], promised to avenge his father's death. He wandered [[Dorthonion]] as an outlaw and achieved great deeds that were heard far and wide. Thus Morgoth set a high price on his head and Sauron, commanding a great army of [[werewolves]] and [[fell beasts]], sought for Beren.<ref name="Beren"/><br />
<br />
Later, [[Finrod|Finrod Felagund]], Beren, and their ten companions left [[Nargothrond]] in search of the [[Silmarils]]. Despite their being disguised as Orcs, Sauron espied them as they entered into the vale between [[Ered Wethrin]] and [[Taur-nu-Fuin (Dorthonion)|Taur-nu-Fuin]] and was suspicious as Orcs passing were supposed to report to him. He had them captured and they were brought to him. There Finrod and Sauron fought in songs of power; the strength of both was great, but Sauron was more powerful. He then stripped them of their Orc disguise but failed to discern who they were. He had them thrown into a dark pit where one by one they were devoured by a werewolf. Withstanding this horror, they refused to betray one another.<ref name="Beren"/><br />
<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Huan Subdues Sauron.jpg|thumb|left|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Huan Subdues Sauron'']]<br />
When all of their companions were dead, Finrod and Beren were the last who remained alive in Sauron's pit. When a werewolf went to attack Beren, Finrod Felegund used all his power to defeat it. In this he was successful. However, he was critically wounded and soon passed away. In that dark moment, [[Lúthien]] came to the bridge of [[Tol-in-Gaurhoth]] and sang. From his tower of Minas Tirith, Sauron saw Lúthien and knew that it was the famous daughter of [[Melian]] and [[Thingol]]. He desired to capture her and hand her over to Morgoth. Therefore he sent a wolf to the bridge, but it was quickly and silently slain by [[Huan]]. He sent many more and each one Huan killed. Finally, he sent [[Draugluin]], sire of the werewolves of Angband. The fight between Huan and Draugluin was fierce. Eventually Draugluin fled and, before dying, he told his master that Huan was there. Therefore Sauron took the form of a werewolf, the greatest the world had ever seen, and went towards the bridge. So great was the terror of his approach that even Huan momentarily recoiled. Sauron leaped to attack Lúthien, but she drew her magic veil over his eyes afflicting him with fatigue and blindness, then Huan sprang upon Sauron and there they fought. The force of Sauron's malice alone left Lúthien weak and nearly unconscious, and the fighting was brutal and prolonged; however, he could not subdue the hound of [[Valinor]]. He was trapped within Huan's jaws and could not break free, even when he took the form of a serpent and finally his own shape. Rather than leave his physical form, he yielded to Lúthien, giving her control of the isle in return for his release. He then took the form of a vampire and fled to [[Taur-nu-Fuin (Dorthonion)|Taur-nu-Fuin]], filling the forest with horror.<ref name="Beren"/><br />
<br />
After the [[War of Wrath]], with the downfall of [[Morgoth]] and the destruction of [[Thangorodrim]], Sauron adopted a fair form and repented his evil deeds in fear of the wrath of the Valar. [[Eönwë]] then ordered Sauron to return to [[Valinor]] in order to receive the judgement of Manwë. Sauron was not willing to suffer such humiliation and so he fled and hid himself in [[Middle-earth]].<ref name="SRings"/><br />
<br />
===Second Age===<br />
[[File:Angel Falto - Annatar.jpg|thumb|right|Angel Falto - ''Annatar'']]<br />
<br />
Although Sauron long knew that [[Men]] were easier to sway, he sought to bring the [[Elves]] into his service, as they were far more powerful. So, about a thousand years after the [[War of Wrath]], Sauron decided that the [[Valar]] had forgotten about [[Middle-earth]] and he once again turned to evil.<ref name="silm-rop">{{S|Rings}}</ref><br />
<br />
After lying hidden and increasing his power in secret, Sauron put on a fair visage, calling himself '''Annatar''', the Lord of Gifts, and in {{SA|1200}} he befriended the [[Elvish]] smiths of Eregion, counselling them in arts and magic.<ref name="lotr-toy">{{App|B}}</ref> He was never welcome in [[Lindon]] as [[Elrond]] and [[Gil-galad]] did not trust him and refused to treat with him (which included [[Galadriel]] too), although they never realised who he truly was. Elsewhere he was gladly received, especially in [[Eregion]] where the [[Elvish]] smiths learned much from him as their thirst for knowledge was great.<ref name="lotr-coe">{{FR|Council}}</ref><br />
<br />
Under Sauron's tutelage the [[Gwaith-i-Mírdain]], under the leadership of Celebrimbor, grandson of [[Fëanor]], became more skilled than anyone else, save for Fëanor himself. In the year {{SA|1500}}, when they reached the very height of their power, the Elves began the forging of the [[Rings of Power]], but Sauron knew all their secrets and in {{SA|1600}} - ten years after the completion of the Rings of Power - Sauron created [[The One Ring]] to control the bearers of the other Rings.<ref name="lotr-toy" /> For this he invested most of his own power into the Ring as he forged it.<br />
<br />
But the Elves were not so easily ensnared, and as soon as Sauron put on the One Ring they and Celebrimbor were aware of him, and realised they were betrayed.<ref name="lotr-coe" /> They hid their Rings from Sauron and did not use them. Sauron demanded that the other Rings be given to him, for they would not have been made without his knowledge. The Elves refused, and the War was inevitable.<ref name="silm-rop" /><br />
<br />
In this time Sauron became known as the [[Dark Lord]] of [[Mordor]]. He raised [[Barad-dûr]], the Dark Tower, near Mount Doom; constructed the [[Black Gate]] of Mordor to prevent invasion; and raised massive armies of [[Orcs]], [[Trolls]], and Men, chiefly [[Easterlings]] and [[Southrons]]. Sauron's power reached its zenith 700 years after Mordor's creation, in the 17th century of the Second Age.<br />
<br />
The [[War of the Elves and Sauron]] was a bloody conflict which destroyed Eregion and devastated much of Eriador. Celebrimbor was slain and his body impaled on a spike paraded at the head of Sauron's legions. The Elves were pushed back almost to the Blue Mountains, while their Dwarf allies (who had also rejected Sauron) retreated behind the walls of [[Moria]] where Sauron could not assail them. Sauron was master of almost all of Middle-earth beyond the coasts, but the [[Númenóreans]], the powerful Men descended from the line of Beren and Lúthien, who lived on the island of Númenor in the sea between Middle-earth and Valinor, responded to the Elves' call for aid and sent a relief force. The combined armies rallied and were able to defeat Sauron's armies in Eriador after heavy fighting, and the Dark Lord fled back to Mordor with little more than his own bodyguard and a handful of orcs.<br />
<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - The Forging of the One.jpg|thumb|left|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''The Forging of the One'']]<br />
As the Elves had failed him, he had decided to distribute the Rings of Power to Men and Dwarves. The Dwarves also failed him, as they proved too hardy and resistant to their corruptive power; however the nine Men were corrupted and eventually faded, being turned into the [[Nazgûl]] (Ringwraiths), his chief servants.<br />
<br />
Nonetheless, while Sauron's subsequent power never quite matched the height it had during the War with the elves, many of his most powerful enemies' homelands had been devastated. ''Relative'' to his enemies, Sauron was actually in a stronger position than previously. His empire continued to expand to dominate barbarian Men to the far south and east. Throughout this, Sauron remained faithful in his old allegiance, building temples to the worship of Morgoth, where human sacrifice was practised. Because of this, towards the end of the Second Age, Sauron assumed the titles of '''Lord of the Earth''' and '''King of Men'''.<br />
<br />
This offended the arrogant [[Númenóreans]] who had already started to fall under the [[Shadow]]. The proud Númenóreans came to Middle-earth with great force of arms, and Sauron's forces fled. Realising he could not defeat the Numenoreans with military strength, Sauron allowed himself to be taken as a hostage to Númenor by King [[Ar-Pharazôn]]. There, he quickly grew from captive to adviser and was known as '''Tar-Mairon'''; he converted many Númenóreans to the worship of Morgoth, becoming High Priest of the [[Cult of Melkor]]. He had the [[White Tree]] cut down and in its place raised a great temple in which he performed human sacrifices, persecuting those who were still [[Faithful]]. Finally, he convinced the king to rebel against the Valar and attack Valinor itself, claiming they would gain immortality. [[Ilúvatar|Eru]], the supreme god, then directly intervened: Númenor was drowned under the sea, and the great navy of Númenor was destroyed. <br />
<br />
Sauron was on Númenor in the Temple of Melkor and was caught in the ensuing [[Drowning of Númenor|flood]]. However his spirit survived, although severely weakened by the destruction, and (presumably carrying the One Ring) fled back to Middle-earth.<br />
<br />
Sauron's spirit returned to Mordor, where he slowly rebuilt his strength during the time known as the [[Dark Years]], and he was unable to assume a fair shape. From this point on he started to rule through terror and force, largely filling the fearsome role left vacant by his former master.<br />
<br />
Meanwhile, a few faithful Númenóreans, led by [[Elendil]], were saved from the flood, and they founded [[Gondor]] and [[Arnor]] in Middle-earth. Sauron still considered them his hated enemies and he launched a pre-emptive attack on Gondor in {{SA|3429}}. These Men, led by Elendil and his sons, formed the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men|Last Alliance]] with the Elves of [[Lindon]] under the Elven-king [[Gil-galad]], and together they fought Sauron in the [[War of the Last Alliance]]. The Alliance advanced against Mordor and defeated Sauron's forces in the [[Battle of Dagorlad]] and finally laid siege before [[Barad-dûr]]. <br />
<br />
The siege lasted for seven years until {{SA|3441}}, when Sauron left his fortress engaging in direct combat. Elendil and Gil-galad fought Sauron and vanquished him, but both were killed. [[Isildur]], son of Elendil, cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and claimed it. Later, the Ring betrayed him and was lost for more than two thousand years. After his defeat in the War of the Last Alliance, Sauron had lost his ability to form a physical body for a great while.<br />
<br />
===Third Age===<br />
Sauron's defeat released his subjects, like the [[Easterlings]], from his tyranny, but they fell into chaos. Their tribes and kingdoms battled against each other and some withdrew to the hated west.<ref>{{UT|6b}}</ref> Weakened by his defeat and the loss of the One Ring, it is thought that he fled to the far east to regain his power and strength before returning. <br />
<br />
It was not until c. {{TA|1000}} that Sauron could again begin to take shape. Worried by this prospect, the [[Valar]] sent five [[Maiar]] from the West to assist the peoples of Middle-earth against Sauron.<ref>{{UT|Istari}}</ref><br />
====Sauron's Return====<br />
In {{TA|1050|n}} his power was enough that he began again to throw a shadow across portions of [[Middle-earth]]. Around this time he first began to inhabit southern [[Mirkwood|Greenwood the Great]], choosing the hill of [[Amon Lanc]] as a place to build the fortress of [[Dol Guldur]]. At first, [[the Wise]] thought that it was one of the [[Nazgûl]] who had returned and taken up residence in southern Greenwood.<br />
<br />
In the following centuries, his subjects in [[Angmar]], the [[East]] and the South once more concentrated against the Realms of his ancient enemies. Kings [[Araphant]] of [[Arnor]] and [[Ondoher]] of [[Gondor]] realised that a single force was co-ordinating the attacks on both of their kingdoms and that they should work together to combat this evil. However Angmar was successful in destroying Arnor; When Angmar was also destroyed, by [[Gondor]] and the Elves, the Nazgûl gathered back in Mordor and subsequently captured [[Minas Ithil]], now renamed [[Minas Morgul]]; Sauron's final success was ending the [[Kings of Gondor|royal line]] of Gondor.<br />
====The Watchful Peace====<br />
The Wise feared that their enemy is active in Dol Guldur, and when [[Gandalf]] entered the fortress in {{TA|2063|n}} the power in Dol Guldur fled before him thus beginning the [[Watchful Peace]].<ref name=TA/> Leaving [[Khamûl]] in his place, Sauron fled once more to the East, corrupting the Easterlings and forging a strong alliance between their tribes, so that when he returned he was more powerful and had many Men in his service.<br />
<br />
The Shadow on Mirkwood had lessened, but the Nazgûl had used this period to prepare for Sauron's return and the [[Uruk-hai]], a new race of Orcs was bred in Minas Morgul.<br />
<br />
Sauron returned from the east in {{TA|2460|n}} and again took up residence in [[Dol Guldur]] as the Necromancer. His return coincided with the One Ring revealing itself and [[Sméagol]] claimed it three years later. Feeling the danger, the Wise formed the [[White Council]].<ref name=TA/><br />
<br />
Sauron had captured the Dwarf King [[Thráin|Thráin II]] and taken [[Ring of Thrór|one]] of the [[Seven Rings|Seven Dwarf rings]] from him. After centuries of pressing the [[White Council]] to take action against the Necromancer, [[Gandalf]] entered Dol Guldur in secret in {{TA|2850|n}} and learned that the Necromancer was Sauron. In {{TA|2851|n}}, the White Council were informed of this, and Gandalf urged an immediate attack upon the fortress, but [[Saruman|Saruman the White]] had learned of the presence of the [[The One Ring|Ruling Ring]] near the [[Gladden Fields]]; he thought best to allow Sauron to build up his strength in order to reveal its location so that Saruman could seize it himself. Following his strategy, Saruman opposed Gandalf.<ref name=TA>{{App|TA}}</ref><br />
<br />
By 90 years later, Sauron had his minions look around [[Anduin]] for the One Ring and Saruman, always wanting it for himself, was worrying about it. In {{TA|2941|n}} Gandalf finally prevailed upon the [[White Council]] to attack Dol Guldur, and even Saruman agreed to [[Attack on Dol Guldur|drive Sauron out]]. By that time Gondor's forces around Mordor had weakened so much, and the [[Nazgûl]] had been preparing [[Barad-dûr]] for him, so it was easy for Sauron to flee and return to his ancient stronghold. The Dark Tower was reconstructed, and Sauron declared himself openly in {{TA|2951}}. Following this, the White Council met for one last time to discuss the whereabouts of the Rings.<ref name=TA/><br />
<br />
From then on Sauron stayed in Barad-dûr from where he conducted his war on the [[Free peoples]]. Saruman, who was residing in [[Orthanc]], had secretly found and used the [[Orthanc-stone]]. Through the [[Ithil-stone]] away in Barad-dûr, Sauron linked with and subjugated his mind, and by {{TA|3000}} he had totally deceived and corrupted him.<ref name=TA/><br />
<br />
====The War of the Ring====<br />
Sauron bred immense armies of Orcs and allied with or enslaved Men from the east and south. He adopted the symbol of a lidless eye, and he was able at that time to send out his will over Middle-earth, so that the [[Eye of Sauron]] was a symbol of power and fear.<br />
<br />
After torturing [[Gollum]], he learned that the One Ring had been found by [[Bilbo Baggins]]. He sent his deadliest servants, the [[Nazgûl]], to [[the Shire]], only to find that both Bilbo and his nephew, [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]], had departed. Unbeknownst to Sauron, Frodo had, at the behest of Gandalf, joined the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] on a quest to destroy the Ring. He rallied his vast armies to conquer the resistance's strongholds, and sent the Ringwraiths to find and kill Frodo. At about this time, he also learned that [[Aragorn]], Isildur's heir, had also joined the Fellowship, and was rallying armies to defeat his.<br />
<br />
When Saruman's army was defeated at [[Isengard]], Pippin looked into the Palantir of [[Orthanc]] and saw Sauron, who thought the Hobbit was a prisoner of Saruman. Later [[Aragorn]] used the Palantir to reveal himself to Sauron. Sauron made the premature conclusion that Aragorn had the Ring, and sent an army commanded by his strongest servant, the Witch-King of Angmar, to overthrow [[Minas Tirith]]. This battle would become known as the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]].<br />
<br />
Although Sauron lost the Battle of Pelennor Fields, the free forces of the West were greatly weakened, and Sauron still had sufficient armies in reserve to ensure military victory. He was outwitted, however, by the strategy of Gandalf, who urged the captains of the [[Free peoples]] to march against Sauron, thus diverting the Dark Lord's eye from the real threat of Frodo, the Ring Bearer, who was nearing the end of his quest to destroy the One Ring. <br />
<br />
Frodo, however, failed at the last moment, unable to resist the power of the Ring at the place of its birth. Sauron saw Frodo as he put on the ring and, realising he had been tricked, sent the Nazgul to Mount Doom. But Gollum inadvertently saved Frodo by recovering the Ring in a desperate attempt to possess it, and then falling with it into the fire. Thus Sauron's power was unmade, and his corporeal power in Middle-earth came to an end. His spirit towered above Mordor like a black cloud, but was blown away by a [[Manwë|powerful wind]] from the [[Aman|West]]. Sauron was now permanently crippled, never to rise again, following his ancient lord Morgoth into the Void. <ref name="SVala"/> Saruman would suffer a similar fate.<br />
<br />
==Appearance==<br />
===Physical Form===<br />
[[File:J.R.R. Tolkien - Sauron.jpg|thumb|right|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]] - ''Sauron'' (unfinished sketch apparently showing him just after the destruction of the Ring)]]<br />
At first Sauron appeared as a royal and commanding figure in a strong body. He was also able to veil his power and change his shape. Later however he could take only a terrible form, of a stature slightly greater than a [[Men|Man]]'s,<ref>{{L|246}}</ref> "an image of malice and hatred made visible; and the Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure."<ref>{{S|Akallabeth}}</ref> [[Isildur]] recounted that at the [[Siege of Barad-dûr]], Sauron's hand was black with a deadly burning touch.<ref name="lotr-coe"/><br />
<br />
===Eye of Sauron===<br />
The '''Eye of Sauron''', called by various names, was the symbol of [[Sauron]] the Dark Lord following the loss of [[the One Ring]]. This symbol was adopted to show his unceasing vigilance and piercing perception, and was displayed on the weaponry of his servants, or at least the [[orcs]].<br />
<br />
Sauron's Eye as Frodo sees it in the [[Mirror of Galadriel]] is the only feature of his later form described in detail. It is yellow and rimmed with fire, with a slit pupil, "a window into nothing."<ref>{{FR|II7}}</ref> The colour is compared to that of a cat's eye, but because of the references to Sauron's Lidless Eye, it may also resemble that of a snake, such as an adder. Readers differ as to whether Sauron's eyes were literally lidless and resembled what Frodo saw, or instead the Eye was only a symbol that Frodo saw in the Mirror in an elaborate form.<br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
{{Transcribed|Tengwar Sauron (Quenya mode).png|Sauron|Tengwar, Quenya mode}}<br />
{{pronounce|Quenya - Sauron.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br />
{{Pronounce|Annatar.mp3|Ardamir}}<br />
{{pronounce|Sindarin - Gorthaur.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br />
{{pronounce|Quenya - Mairon.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br />
'''''Sauron''''' (pron. {{IPA|[ˈsaʊron]}})<ref group=note>''Sauron'' is pronounced "sour-on" (''sour'' as in not sweet).</ref> is a [[Quenya]] name, said to mean "the Abhorred".<ref>{{S|Index}}</ref><br />
<br />
Several accounts of the origin of the name ''Sauron'' were suggested in different linguistic manuscripts:<br />
*deriving from Quenya ''[[saura]]'' ("foul, evil-smelling, putrid", from the [[Sundocarme|root]] [[THUS#Other versions|THUS]]).<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, p. 393 (entry THUS-)</ref><br />
*deriving from Quenya ''[[saura]]'' ("foul, vile"; from root [[SAWA]]). The manuscript continues saying that ''Sauron'' "could be a genuine [[Sindarin]] formation from ''[[saur]]''; but is probably from Quenya". However, this origin appears to have been rejected, as it is followed by the comment "No. [[THAW|THAW-]], cruel. ''[[Saura]]'', cruel" in the manuscript.<ref>{{PE|17}}, pp. 183-4</ref><br />
*deriving from the [[Primitive Quendian]] form ''Øaurond-'' (formed from the adjective ''Øaurā'' "detestable", from root [[THAW]]).<ref>{{L|297}}, p. 380</ref><br />
*deriving from '''''Thauron''''', which includes the [[Sindarin]] element ''[[thaur]]'' ("abominable, abhorrent"; also found in [[Sauron#Other names and titles|''Gor'''thaur''''']]).<ref>{{S|Appendix}} (entry for ''thaur'')</ref><br />
<br />
==Other names and titles==<br />
'''''Gorthaur''''' ([[Sindarin]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈɡorθaʊr]}}) was a name used of Sauron by the [[Sindar]] during the [[First Age]],<ref>{{S|18}}</ref><ref>{{WJ|15}}, p. 240</ref> meaning "Terrible Dread".<br />
<br />
In some of Tolkien's notes from the 1950s, it is said that Sauron's original name was '''''Mairon''''', "the admirable" ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈmaɪron]}}), "but this was altered after he was suborned by Melkor. But he continued to call himself Mairon the Admirable, or Tar-mairon 'King Excellent', until after Númenor's downfall."<ref name="PE17.1"/><br />
<br />
Among his many titles were the '''[[Necromancer]]''', '''the Abhorred Dread''', the '''Nameless Enemy''', the '''Cruel''',<ref>{{S|IId}}</ref> the '''Dark Lord of Mordor''' and the '''Lord of the Rings'''. The Dúnedain called him '''Sauron the Deceiver''' due to his role in the downfall of Númenor and the Forging of the Rings of Power.<br />
<br />
In the earlier Legendarium, Thû was a name for Sauron used by Tolkien in some of earlier periods, particularly the Lay of Leithian<ref>{{LB|3|C7}}</ref>, where Thû replaced Tevildo the Cat<ref>{{LT2|I}}</ref>.<br />
<br />
== Other versions of the Legendarium ==<br />
Prior to the publication of ''The Silmarillion'' Sauron's origins and true identity were unclear to those without full access to Tolkien's notes. In early editions of the ''[[The Complete Guide to Middle-earth|Guide to Middle Earth]]'', Sauron is described as "probably of the Eldar elves."<br />
<br />
Since the earliest versions of the ''Silmarillion'' legendarium as detailed in [[the History of Middle-earth]] series, Sauron has undergone many changes. The prototype of this character was '''[[Tevildo]]''', lord of the cats, who played the role later taken by Sauron in the earliest version of the story of [[Beren]] and [[Lúthien]] in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part Two]]'', '''[[The Tale of Tinúviel]]'''. Tevildo later (but still in the ''Book of Lost Tales'' period) was transformed into '''[[Thû]]''', the Necromancer. The name was then changed to '''Gorthû''', '''Sûr''', and finally to Sauron. ''Gorthû'', in the form ''Gorthaur'' remained in ''The Silmarillion''.<br />
<br />
===The Necromancer===<br />
In ''[[The Hobbit]]'' the Necromancer is an obscure villainous entity mentioned fleetingly by [[Gandalf]] as one of the dangers of the wider world. He is peripheral to the plot of the book: explaining why the company takes the dangerous road though Mirkwood rather than going around, and providing a reason for Gandalf's absence for that section of the journey. Thematically the Necromancer, a truly 'terrible' force beyond the power of the main protagonists, gives the world of ''The Hobbit'' a greater level of reality which Tolkien felt was necessary for a 'fairy-tale' to ring true.<ref name="Letter17">{{L|17}}</ref><br />
<br />
Despite the alias it would appear that the Necromancer was always intended to stand for [[Sauron]], a figure from the very earliest phases of his [[Legendarium]] (as [[Tevildo]] in ''[[The Tale of Tinúviel]]''). Shortly after the publication of ''The Hobbit'' Tolkien wrote:<br />
{{blockquote|Mr Baggins began as a comic tale among conventional and inconsistent Grimm's fairy-tale dwarves, and got drawn into the edge of it &ndash; so that even Sauron the terrible peeped over the edge.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]<ref name="Letter19">{{L|19}}</ref>}}<br />
<br />
Indeed, in the ''[[Lay of Leithian]]'', [[Thû]] is called a "necromancer" who "held his hosts of [[phantoms]] and of wandering [[ghosts]]" (l. 2075) in [[Tol-in-Gaurhoth]].<ref>{{LB|C7}}</ref><br />
<br />
However, as ''The Hobbit'' was not originally intended to be integrated with Tolkien's wider mythology the Necromancer did not necessarily need to be consistent with his [[First Age]] counterpart Sauron, rather the two were loosely linked to add an 'impression of depth' to the narrative of ''The Hobbit''. With Tolkien's decision to merge the two 'worlds' and make Sauron the central antagonist ''[[Lord of the Rings]]'' came the need to reconcile the two figures and account for his whereabouts in the millennia between the end of the First Age and his dwelling in Bilbo's Mirkwood. This was largely achieved in the ''[[Appendix B|Tale of Years]]'', with Sauron becoming a much greater figure after the fall of his master, one who arguably drove the history of the entire Second and Third Ages of Middle-earth.<br />
<br />
Fans have noted that the alias "Necromancer" for Sauron is obscure, as in the context of neither ''The Hobbit'' nor ''The Lord of the Rings'' Sauron is ever specifically mentioned to use [[Wikipedia:necromancy|necromancy]], i.e. controlling the [[spirits (creatures)|spirits]] of the dead.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/47756/why-is-sauron-called-the-necromancer|articlename=Why is Sauron called the "Necromancer"?|dated=|website=Stackexchange|accessed=}}</ref><br />
<br />
A later essay mentions the practice of necromancy concerning the ''fear'' of the [[Unbodied]] Elves, mentioning that Sauron possibly did so and also taught his followers<Ref>{{MR|P3II3c}}</ref> although this reference isn't given in context of the story.<br />
<br />
==Minions and allies==<br />
*[[Thuringwethil]]- Vampire Herald <br />
*[[Draugluin]]- First of the Werewolves of Angband<br />
*[[Gorgol]] -Captain of the Orc-host that slew [[Barahir]], killed by [[Beren]]<br />
*[[Witch-king]] - Deadliest of his servants, vanquished by [[Eowyn]] and [[Merry]]<br />
*[[Khamul]] - Lieutenant of Dol Guldur<br />
*[[Ringwraiths]] - Greatest of his servants, perished with the [[One Ring]]<br />
*[[Ar-Pharazon]] - King of Numenor, coerced to worship him and [[Morgoth|Melkor]]<br />
*[[Saruman]] - Fallen wizard, enticed by his will and his attempted chief servant (though seeking the One Ring for himself)<br />
*[[Squint-eyed Southerner]] - Spy at the Prancing Pony Inn<br />
*[[Bill Ferny]] - Brigand in [[Bree-land]] <br />
*[[Grishnakh]] - Captain of the Dark Tower, slain by the Riders of Rohan<br />
*[[Shagrat]] - Captain of Cirith Ungol<br />
*[[Gorbag]] - Captain of the Orcs of Morgul that captured [[Frodo Baggins]]<br />
*[[Shelob]] - Descendant of [[Ungoliant]] and guardian of the pass through Mordor<br />
*[[Gothmog (Lieutenant of Morgul)|Gothmog]] - Lieutenant of Morgul<br />
*[[Mouth of Sauron]] - Lieutenant of the Dark Tower and Messenger<br />
<br />
=Portrayal in adaptations=<br />
{{Gallery<br />
|title=Sauron in Adaptations<br />
|width=160<br />
|height=160<br />
|lines=3<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Prologue.jpg|Sauron in [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]<br />
|File:LOTR-vol2-Sauron1.png|Sauron in ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. II: The Two Towers]]''<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Motion Picture Trilogy - Sauron.jpg|Sauron ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
|File:The Eye Of Sauron.jpg|Eye of Sauron in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''<br />
|File:Necromancer.jpg|The Necromancer in the ''[[Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game]]''<br />
|File:Lord of the Rings The Third Age - Eye of Sauron.png|Eye of Sauron in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Third Age]]''<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings Online Shadows of Angmar - Eye of Sauron.png|Eye of Sauron in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar]]''<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings Online Shadows of Angmar - Annatar.png|[[Annatar|Antheron]] in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar]]''<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings Conquest - Sauron1.png|Sauron in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]''<br />
|File:Guardians of Middle-earth - Sauron.png|Sauron in ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''<br />
|File:The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey - Necromancer.jpg|The Necromancer in ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]''<br />
}}<br />
==Films==<br />
'''1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]:'''=<br />
: Sauron is briefly shown in the prologue sequence as a shadowy figure in a horned helmet.<br />
<br />
'''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:Sauron is played by [[Sala Baker]] and voiced by the late [[Alan Howard]]. In these films, he is depicted as a tall armored warlord wielding a huge mace (similar to how his master [[Morgoth]] is described in ''[[The Silmarillion]]''). In the first film, he is depicted killing [[Gil-galad]] (offscreen) and then [[Elendil]] before being defeated by [[Isildur]] using his father's [[Narsil|broken sword]] to cut off the finger wearing [[the One Ring]], as well as three others on the same hand. This strangely causes his body to explode, producing a shockwave that knocks everyone on the battlefield off their feet.<br />
<br />
:Later on, [[Saruman]] implies to [[Gandalf]] that Sauron was unable to retain his physical form and that the Eye was his astral form, a detail which is never brought up in the novel. It is unknown if Saruman was truthful with this statement, or if he was either misinformed or lying (since he was already plotting to ally with Sauron at that point).<br />
<br />
'''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
<br />
'''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
<br />
'''2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
<br />
'''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
: Sauron is played and voiced by [[Benedict Cumberbatch]], under his assumed identity as the Necromancer. In these films, it is stated that the White Council does not discover he is Sauron until much later, during the events of these films, previously believing him to be a human with skills in magic. In these films, Sauron initially appears as a shadowy figure before assuming his armoured form from the previous films and projects the Eye of Sauron around his body.<br />
<br />
==Radio series==<br />
'''1955: [[The Lord of the Rings (1955 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1955 radio series)]]:'''=<br />
:The voice of Sauron is provided by [[Felix Felton]].<ref name="RT1724">Radio Times, Volume 133, No. 1724, [[23 November|November 23]], [[1956]]</ref><br />
<br />
'''1968: [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:Sauron is mentioned only very briefly at the end; [[Gandalf]] and [[Elrond]] discuss how the "Necromancer" had been driven from his abode in the south of [[Mirkwood]].<br />
<br />
'''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:'''<br />
<br />
'''1979: [[The Hobbit (1979 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''<br />
<br />
'''1979: [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''<br />
<br />
==Video games==<br />
'''1985: ''[[Lord of the Rings: Game One]]'':'''=<br />
<br />
'''1988: ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien's War in Middle Earth]]''<br />
<br />
'''1990: [[J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I (1990 video game)|''J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I'' (1990 video game)]]:'''<br />
:Sauron is mentioned by [[Gandalf]] in the beginning of the game.<br />
<br />
'''1993: ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. II: The Two Towers]]'':'''<br />
:Sauron is mentioned in the beginning of the game, when [[Gandalf]] explains the history of [[the One Ring]].<br />
<br />
'''2003: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'':'''<br />
<br />
'''2003: [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]:'''<br />
:Sauron and the events of the south of Mirkwood are left unmentioned. However, whilst in Mirkwood, [[Bilbo Baggins|Bilbo]] has to defeat creatures that he calls "Minions of the Necromancer".<br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Third Age]]'':'''<br />
:At the end of the game, Berethor and company (the playable characters) have to defeat the eye of Sauron by physically attacking him on top of [[Barad-dûr]].<br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
<br />
'''2005: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Tactics]]'':'''<br />
<br />
'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br />
<br />
'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar]]'':'''<br />
<br />
'''2008: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria]]'':'''<br />
<br />
'''2009: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]'':'''<br />
<br />
'''2010: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest]]'':'''<br />
<br />
'''2011: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]'''''<br />
<br />
'''2012: ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Sauron is a "guardian".<ref name="Trailer">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caYW7d-8MIY&feature=player_embedded|articlename=''Guardians of Middle-earth'': First Official Gameplay Trailer|dated=29 June 2012|website=YT|accessed=16 July 2012}}</ref><br />
<br />
'''2014: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'''''<br />
<br />
==Others==<br />
'''1982-97: ''[[Middle-earth Role Playing]]'':'''=<br />
:Sauron is treated as a Mage of level 180 (level 360 if using the One Ring). Among his items are the Elf-slaying Black Sword (S. ''Mormegil''), the Gauntlet of Slaying ("Narsil's Bane"), and the Black Scale of dragonskin. Among his special powers are Domination (control over other players using the One Eye), resistance to normal weapons, and the ability to force anyone within his sight to resist fear (or otherwise becoming frozen).<ref>{{ICE|8002}}, pp. 98-102</ref><ref>{{ICE|2006}}, pp. 97-105</ref><br />
<br />
'''1995-8: ''[[Middle-earth Collectible Card Game]]'':'''<br />
:The card "[http://www.tradecardsonline.com/im/selectCard/card_id/54534/cards_lang/1 Sauron]", appearing in the set ''[[Middle-earth: The Balrog|The Balrog]]'', is playable as a manifestation of the card "[http://www.tradecardsonline.com/im/selectCard/card_id/54002/cards_lang/1 The Lidless Eye]" (from the set [[Middle-earth: The Lidless Eye|''The Lidless Eye'']]), and can be used by players to enhance their general influence.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.tradecardsonline.com/im/selectCard/game_id/20/goal/|articlename=Home page for the game Middle Earth|dated=|website=[http://www.tradecardsonline.com/ Trade Cards Online]|accessed=5 January 2012}}</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[:Category:Images of Sauron|Images of Sauron]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/sauronname.htm A Name for the Dark Lord] by [[Helge Fauskanger]]==<br />
<br />
{{references|note}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=evil<br />
| house=[[Maia]]<br />
| died=[[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| pvac=None<br />
| prev=Ring created<br />
| list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br />
| dates=c. {{SA|1600}} – {{SA|3441|n}}<br />
| next=[[Isildur]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
<br />
{{Ainur}}<br />
{{ringbearers}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br />
[[Category:First Age characters]]<br />
[[Category:Second Age characters]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[Category:Maiar]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Ring-bearers]]<br />
[[Category:Servants of Melkor]]<br />
[[de:Sauron]]<br />
[[fi:Sauron]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/ainur/maiar/sauron]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=308379User:LordAndSaviourSauron2019-11-16T21:16:06Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
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<div>{{user infobox| name= WEMOΧΞΣ| website= https://sites.google.com/site/amorrhebides<br/>https://htemarkofgundabad.deviantart.com |userboxes= {{user evil}}{{User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Black Metal}}{{User Greece}}{{user lore-3}}{{user 2y}}}}<br />
Heyo<br />
<br/><br />
I am LordAndSaviourSauron, but you can call me Wemo.<br />
<br/><br />
Sometimes, I do stuff. Sometimes, I don't. It's up to me<br />
<br/><br />
Dunno why I'm here, I guess it's to help improve the wiki?<br />
<br />
[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Orc names|An orkish name list]]<br />
<br />
==Stuff I own==<br />
===Books===<br />
*[[The Hobbit]]<br />
*[[The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
*[[The Silmarillion]]<br />
*[[The Children of Hurin]]<br />
*[[Beren and Luthien]]<br />
<br />
===Films===<br />
*[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)]] Extended Editions<br />
*[[The Hobbit (film series)]] Extended Editions</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=305651User:LordAndSaviourSauron2019-07-10T08:12:45Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Haha no</p>
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<div>{{user infobox| name= WEMOΧΞΣ| website= https://sites.google.com/site/amorrhebides<br/>https://htemarkofgundabad.deviantart.com |userboxes= {{user evil}}{{User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Black Metal}}{{User Greece}}{{user lore-3}}{{user 2y}}}}<br />
Heyo<br />
<br/><br />
I am LordAndSaviourSauron, but you can call me Wemo.<br />
<br/><br />
Sometimes, I do stuff. Sometimes, I don't. It's up to me<br />
<br/><br />
Dunno why I'm here, I guess it's to help improve the wiki?<br />
<br />
[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Orc names|An orkish name list]]<br />
<br />
==Stuff I own==<br />
===Books===<br />
*[[The Hobbit]]<br />
*[[The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
*[[The Silmarillion]]<br />
*[[The Children of Hurin]]<br />
*[[Beren and Luthien]]<br />
<br />
===Films===<br />
*[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)]] Extended Editions<br />
*[[The Hobbit (film series)]]] Extended Editions</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=305341User:LordAndSaviourSauron2019-06-14T08:51:25Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
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<div>{{user infobox| name= WEMOΧΞΣ| website= https://sites.google.com/site/amorrhebides<br/>https://htemarkofgundabad.deviantart.com |userboxes= {{user evil}}{{User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Black Metal}}{{User Greece}}{{user lore-3}}{{user 2y}}}}<br />
Heyo<br />
<br/><br />
I am LordAndSaviourSauron, but you can call me Wemo.<br />
<br/><br />
Sometimes, I do stuff. Sometimes, I don't. It's up to me<br />
<br/><br />
Dunno why I'm here, I guess it's to help improve the wiki?<br />
<br />
[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Orc names|An orkish name list]]<br />
<br />
==Stuff I own==<br />
===Books===<br />
*[[The Hobbit]]<br />
*[[The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
*[[The Silmarillion]]<br />
*[[The Children of Hurin]]<br />
*[[Beren and Luthien]]<br />
<br />
===Films===<br />
*[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)]] Extended Editions<br />
*[[The Hobbit (film series)]]] Extended Editions<br />
<br />
==Random stuff==<br />
Whats the difference between a gundabad orc and a gundamad orc?<br />
<br/><br />
One is a fan of michael jackson and the other one watches MAD TV nonstop!<br />
<br />
<br />
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I should probably move the jokes somewhere else but ya know</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Black_Shadow&diff=304435Black Shadow2019-04-18T08:26:45Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Fix grammar</p>
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<div>'''Black Shadow''' was an evil blight inflicted by the [[Nazgûl]], causing their victims to slip into a dark cold sleep and never recover. Those striken by the malady murmured in their sleep until a grey shadow fell on their faces as they fell into the darkness.<br />
<br />
After the [[Witch-king]] led [[Sauron's attack on Osgiliath]], news of a "Black Shadow" reached [[Eriador]] and [[Gandalf]] realized it was the sene of danger that he sense approaching.<ref>{{FR|Council}}</ref><br />
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During the [[Siege of Gondor]] many wounded and those striken by the Black Shadow were in the [[Houses of Healing]] but the healers could not find a remedy.<ref>{{RK|Houses}}</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[Shadow]]<br />
*[[Black Breath]]<br />
{{References}}<br />
[[Category: Nazgûl]]<br />
[[de:Schwarzer Anhauch]]<br />
[[fi:Musta Hengitys]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=304326User:LordAndSaviourSauron2019-04-10T15:18:14Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
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<div>{{user infobox| name= WEMOΧΞΣ| website= https://sites.google.com/site/amorrhebides<br/>https://htemarkofgundabad.deviantart.com |userboxes= {{user evil}}{{User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Black Metal}}{{User Greece}}{{user lore-3}}{{user 2y}}}}<br />
Heyo<br />
<br/><br />
I am LordAndSaviourSauron, but you can call me Wemo.<br />
<br/><br />
Sometimes, I do stuff. Sometimes, I don't. It's up to me<br />
<br/><br />
Dunno why I'm here, I guess it's to help improve the wiki?<br />
<br />
[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Orc names|An orkish name list]]<br />
<br />
==Stuff I own==<br />
===Books===<br />
*[[The Hobbit]]<br />
*[[The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
*[[The Silmarillion]]<br />
*[[The Children of Hurin]]<br />
*[[Beren and Luthien]]<br />
<br />
===Films===<br />
*[[The Lord of the Rings Trilogy]] Extended Editions<br />
*[[The Hobbit trilogy]] Extended Editions<br />
<br />
==Random stuff==<br />
Whats the difference between a gundabad orc and a gundamad orc?<br />
<br/><br />
One is a fan of michael jackson and the other one watches MAD TV nonstop!<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
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I should probably move the jokes somewhere else but ya know</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Black_Metal&diff=304325User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Black Metal2019-04-10T15:13:56Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Created page with "{{userbox | float= | border-c= | border-w= | border-s= | id= \m/ | id-a= | id-c= #000000 | id-lh= | id=fc= #FFFFFF | id-fs= | id-w= | id-h= | id-p= | id-css= | info= This user li..."</p>
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<div>{{userbox<br />
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<div>{{user infobox| name= WEMOΧΞΣ| website= https://sites.google.com/site/amorrhebides<br/>https://htemarkofgundabad.deviantart.com |userboxes= {{user evil}}{{User Dwarves}}{{user harad}}{{user hobbits}}{{user mordor}}{{user wizards}}{{User Greece}}{{user lore-3}}{{user 2y}}}}<br />
Heyo<br />
<br/><br />
I am LordAndSaviourSauron, but you can call me Wemo.<br />
<br/><br />
Sometimes, I do stuff. Sometimes, I don't. It's up to me<br />
<br/><br />
Dunno why I'm here, I guess it's to help improve the wiki?<br />
<br />
[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Orc names|An orkish name list]]<br />
<br />
==Stuff I own==<br />
===Books===<br />
*The Hobbit<br />
*The Lord of The Rings<br />
*The Silimarillion<br />
*The Children of Hurin<br />
*Beren And Luthien<br />
<br />
===Films===<br />
*The Lord of The Rings Trilogy Extended Editions<br />
*The Hobbit Trilogy Extended Editions<br />
<br />
==Random stuff==<br />
Whats the difference between a gundabad orc and a gundamad orc?<br />
<br/><br />
One is a fan of michael jackson and the other one watches MAD TV nonstop!<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I should probably move the jokes somewhere else but ya know</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=300213User:LordAndSaviourSauron2018-07-21T11:55:08Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Replaced content with "This account is dead"</p>
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<div>This account is dead</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Berserker&diff=299136Berserker2018-04-29T09:16:28Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
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<div>{{Adaptation}}<br />
{{Orc infobox<br />
| name=Berserker<br />
| image=[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers - Berserker.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption=Orc Berserker from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation= Saruman<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=[[3 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Battle of the Hornburg|Helm's Deep]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
[[File:The Hobbit - The Battle of the Five Armies - Berserker.jpg|thumb|300px|A Gundabad Berserker]]<br />
The Orc '''Berserker''' was a concept developed for [[Peter Jackson]]'s film ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''. The Berserkers are portrayed as a [[Wikipedia:Juggernaut|juggernaut]]-type of [[Uruk-hai|Uruk]] of [[Saruman]] with a great two-handed sword. They wear no armor apart from a helmet, and, according to the [[Weta Workshop]] designers, they fill it with blood before placing them on their heads and charging into battle, developing a blood-lust.{{fact}}<br />
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A ''Berserker Uruk-hai'' is also featured in [[Lego|LEGO: The Lord of the Rings]] in the set ''The Battle of Helm's Deep''.<ref name="2012 sets">{{webcite|author=Calisuri|articleurl=http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/02/12/53563-more-lord-of-the-rings-lego-details-from-toy-fare-2012/|articlename=More Lord of the Rings LEGO Details from Toy Fare 2012|dated=12 February 2012|website=TORN|accessed=18 February 2012}}</ref><br />
<br />
Berserker orcs also appear in ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'', although this time they are a type of [[Mount Gundabad|Gundabad Orcs]]. They were part of [[Bolg]]'s second Orc army, and are apparently stronger than the average Gundabad Orc, with some coming close to killing [[Thorin Oakenshield]]. Unlike the Uruk berserkers, they wear armor, with some having articulated breastplates resembling faces<ref>The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies art and design, page 206</ref><br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Orcs from adaptations]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=File:The_Hobbit_-_The_Battle_of_the_Five_Armies_-_Berserker.jpg&diff=299135File:The Hobbit - The Battle of the Five Armies - Berserker.jpg2018-04-29T09:09:12Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Category:Images from The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
Category:Images of orcs from adaptations</p>
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<div>== Summary ==<br />
[[Category:Images from The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Images of orcs from adaptations]]<br />
<br />
<br />
== Licensing ==<br />
{{Fairuse-Newlinecinema}}</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Grinnah&diff=298773Grinnah2018-04-18T11:54:36Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
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<div>{{Adaptation}}<br />
{{orc infobox<br />
| name=Grinnah<br />
| image=[[File:The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey - Goblin.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Grinnah" from ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]''<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position= Interrogator of Goblin town<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation= Great Goblin<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death={{TA|2941}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Goblin-town]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor= Discovering orcist on Thorin oakenshield<br />
| house=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes= Yellow<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Grinnah''' was a [[Orcs|Goblin]] of [[Goblin-town]] in ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]''. He was played by [[Stephen Ure]], who also played [[Fimbul]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Grinnah appeared to be a significant member of the Goblin Army, as he directly reported to the [[Great Goblin]] when they captured [[Thorin and Company]]. He discovers [[orcist]] on [[Thorin Oakenshield]], and shows it to the great goblin, who angrily orders his subordinates to kill Thorin. When [[Gandalf]] arrived to rescue the Dwarves and they took up arms to fight their way out, Grinnah was stabbed to death by [[Kíli]].<ref>''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]''</ref><br />
==Personality==<br />
Grinnah is cunning and vicious, but much like the other goblins, he is a coward. Despite his apparent loyality to the great goblin, he actually hates him in secret.<ref>{{webcite|website=[http://www.theonering.com The One Ring]|articleurl=http://www.theonering.com/complete-list-of-film-changes/the-hobbit-an-unexpected-journey|articlename=An Unexpected Journey|accessed=1 July 2017}}</ref><br />
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{{References}}<br />
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[[fi:Grinnah (elokuvahahmo)]]<br />
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[[Category:Orcs from adaptations]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Bolg&diff=297634Bolg2018-03-11T07:20:30Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: /* Portrayal in adaptations */ Better image</p>
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<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{orc infobox<br />
| name=Bolg<br />
| image=[[File:Turner Mohan - Bolg.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Bolg" by [[:Category:Images by Turner Mohan|Turner Mohan]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames="Bolg of the North"<ref name=H17/><br />
| titles=<br />
| position=[[Orcs|Orc]]-chieftain<br />
| location=[[Gundabad|Mount Gundabad]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death={{TA|2941}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Battle of Five Armies]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| parentage=[[Azog]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| race=[[Orcs|Orc]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=Scimitar<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Bolg of the North''' was an Orc warlord.<br />
==History==<br />
Bolg was the son of [[Azog]],<ref name=H17>{{H|17}}</ref> who succeeded his father as leader of the northern [[Orcs]] after Azog was killed by [[Dáin Ironfoot]] at the [[Battle of Azanulbizar]] in [[Third Age]] {{TA|2799|n}}.<ref>{{App|Durin}}</ref> This started Bolg's hatred towards the [[Dwarves]] and after the [[Great Goblin]] was killed during an encounter with [[Thorin and Company]] in {{TA|2941}}, his hatred for them grew even more.{{fact}}<br />
<br />
Bolg gathered an army of Orcs from the [[Misty Mountains]] to their capital at [[Gundabad|Mount Gundabad]]. They marched eastward through the [[Grey Mountains]] with a host of [[Wargs]] and a cloud of [[bats]] overhead.<ref name=H17/><br />
<br />
Once they reached the [[Lonely Mountain]], Bolg led the Orcs and Wargs into battle with the Dwarves, [[Elves of Mirkwood|Wood-elves]], and [[Lake-men]]. Surrounding him was a group of huge Orcs with steel scimitars.<ref name=H17/> When [[Thorin]] attempted to pierce their ranks he became surrounded, and would later die from the wounds he sustained. The [[Eagles]] arrived and after them came [[Beorn]] in the shape of a bear. Beorn killed Bolg and the Orcs and Wargs were soon defeated.<ref>{{H|18}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
There have been several attempts to give a meaning of the name ''Bolg''. One is a regular [[Orkish]] treatment of ''[[Boldog]]'', another a connection to [[Westron]] ''[[Bolger Family#Etymology|bolg]]''. <br />
<br />
In ''[[The History of The Hobbit]]'', a word from a little known and little expanded language, ''[[Mágol]]'', is given, ''bolg'', which means "strong". [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] at one time considered making Mágol an Orkish language. An [[wikipedia:Primitive Irish|Ivernian]] word "bolg", of unknown meaning, is also cited by [[John D. Rateliff|Rateliff]].<ref>{{HM|RB}}, p. 710</ref><br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree| AZO | |AZO=[[Azog]]</br><small>''d. {{TA|2799}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree| |!| | |}}<br />
{{familytree| BOL | |BOL='''BOLG'''</br><small>''d. {{TA|2941}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
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==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
[[File:The Hobbit - The Desolation of Smaug - Bolg in Lake-town.jpg|thumb|300px|right|Bolg in [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]]]<br />
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'''2012: ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]'':'''<br />
:Bolg is played by [[Conan Stevens]] in this film via practical costume.<ref name="TORNBolg">{{webcite|author=MrCere|articleurl=http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/04/22/55228-exclusive-hobbits-conan-stevens-chats-with-torn/|articlename=Exclusive: ‘Hobbit’s’ Conan Stevens chats with TORn|dated=22-April-2012|website=TORN|accessed=05-September-2012}}</ref> He makes a brief appearance during the [[Battle of Azanulbizar]], where he is seen fighting against [[Dwalin]] during the flashback to the battle outside [[Moria]], until he is incapacitated and knocked down. He is, however, never actually identified as being Bolg in the film.<ref group=note>While Bolg was redesigned for motion capture performance and recast for the two following films, Conan Stevens ''does'' reprise this character as the [[Keeper of the Dungeons|Orc dungeon keeper]] at [[Dol Guldur]] in ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'' who torments [[Gandalf]] as he is imprisoned there. The Orc also attempts to reclaim [[Narya]] from the [[Wizards|Wizard]] for his [[Sauron|master]] right before being vanquished by [[Galadriel]] upon her arrival, though this segment only occurs in the film's [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (extended edition)|Extended Edition]]</ref><br />
<br />
'''2013: ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]'':'''<br />
:Bolg is played by [[Lawrence Makoare]] via motion capture in this film. Azog - who survives the [[War of the Dwarves and Orcs]] in these films - is summoned to Dol Guldur to become the commander of [[Sauron]]'s [[Orcs|Orc]] armies. While there, [[Azog]] dispatches his son Bolg to take his place in hunting Thorin and Company. With his pack of Orcs, Bolg tracks Thorin and Company through [[Mirkwood]], attacks the Wood-elves as the Company escapes in barrels, and eventually follows the [[Thorin and Company|Dwarves]] to [[Lake-town]].<br />
:At Lake-town, Bolg and a team of stealth-Orcs raid Bard's home in search of the Dwarves, but find only four. When they attack, they are in turn attacked by two [[Elves]]: [[Legolas]] and [[Tauriel]]. He goes after Legolas, and the two begin a duel (in which the Elf uses [[Orcrist]], the weapon of [[Thorin]]). However, the two adversaries prove to be evenly-matched, so Bolg decides to make his retreat. While Legolas is distracted by other Orcs, Bolg withdraws and rides a Warg down a dock. He is then pursued by Legolas, now on a horse.<br />
<br />
'''2014: ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'':'''<br />
:Once again performed via motion capture, Bolg is played by [[John Tui]] this time. He is first seen in this film when he meets his father who is leading Sauron's forces to capture [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]]. When he realises [[Elves of Mirkwood|Elves]] will come to Erebor, Azog sends Bolg to lead a separate Orc army detachment raised in [[Gundabad]]. Arriving with an advance force, he aids his father against Thorin [[Oakenshield]]'s commando team on [[Ravenhill]], nearly kills the Elf Tauriel, and slays the Dwarf [[Kíli]] when he comes to her defense. Soon afterwards, however, he is confronted and killed by Legolas, who drives one of his battle-knives into his head. Bolg's body subsequently falls off the mountain and is crushed by a boulder falling on top of it.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[:Category:Images of Bolg|Images of Bolg]]<br />
<br />
{{References|Notes}}<br />
[[Category:Black Speech words]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]<br />
[[Category:Evil]]<br />
[[Category:Orcs]]<br />
[[Category:Orkish words]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Bolg]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:orques:bolg]]<br />
[[fi:Bolg]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bolg&diff=297633Talk:Bolg2018-03-11T07:19:12Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
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<div>==Portrayal in The Hobbit==<br />
I'm not sure I entirely agree with the reversion of the anon edit. Can we please have some clarity - and consistency across articles - about which actor(s) portrayed the character? Wikipedia's article on Conan Stevens supports the anon edit, whilst I can't find any reference to Conan Stevens in the cited footnote (although that footnote is almost worthless as there are no page numbers to go with it); all I can find is a photo in the book labelled as "Bolg" which was the Keeper orc and not the Bolg we saw on screen. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:11, 19 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This article on which 2.86.255.196 is fixated is presumably a post-Bolg-redesign-announcement amendment because, like it or not for him, Conan Stevens' Orc character '''is''' credited as 'Bolg' in AUJ. I will, however, add an addendum on the character's page that integrates the character's subsequent appearance in BOTFA. --[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 02:54, 20 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Although the edit in this article you reverted was actually correct (albeit the information was misplaced): "''Bolg originally was to be played by [[Conan Stevens]] (via practical costume).However, he was portrayed by [[Lawrence Makoare]] in the second film and by [[John Tui]] in the third film. Both actors portrayed him via motion-capture and CG .''" I want to see references in this article. Proper references, not just an entire book or an entire film. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:29, 20 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Image ==<br />
<br />
Should we change the image in the portrayal in adaptations section? The current image is rather low quality and has quite a bit of motion blur--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 07:54, 10 March 2018 (UTC)<br />
: That's probably a good idea (assuming there's a suitable image available). [[User:Protospace|Protospace]] 08:35, 10 March 2018 (UTC)<br />
:: I posted one some time ago--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 07:19, 11 March 2018 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bolg&diff=297622Talk:Bolg2018-03-10T07:54:10Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: /* Image */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>==Portrayal in The Hobbit==<br />
I'm not sure I entirely agree with the reversion of the anon edit. Can we please have some clarity - and consistency across articles - about which actor(s) portrayed the character? Wikipedia's article on Conan Stevens supports the anon edit, whilst I can't find any reference to Conan Stevens in the cited footnote (although that footnote is almost worthless as there are no page numbers to go with it); all I can find is a photo in the book labelled as "Bolg" which was the Keeper orc and not the Bolg we saw on screen. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:11, 19 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This article on which 2.86.255.196 is fixated is presumably a post-Bolg-redesign-announcement amendment because, like it or not for him, Conan Stevens' Orc character '''is''' credited as 'Bolg' in AUJ. I will, however, add an addendum on the character's page that integrates the character's subsequent appearance in BOTFA. --[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 02:54, 20 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Although the edit in this article you reverted was actually correct (albeit the information was misplaced): "''Bolg originally was to be played by [[Conan Stevens]] (via practical costume).However, he was portrayed by [[Lawrence Makoare]] in the second film and by [[John Tui]] in the third film. Both actors portrayed him via motion-capture and CG .''" I want to see references in this article. Proper references, not just an entire book or an entire film. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:29, 20 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Image ==<br />
<br />
Should we change the image in the portrayal in adaptations section? The current image is rather low quality and has quite a bit of motion blur--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 07:54, 10 March 2018 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LordAndSaviourSauron/archives&diff=297350User talk:LordAndSaviourSauron/archives2018-03-03T15:29:44Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''NOTE:''' THIS IS JUST AN ARCHIVE, NOT THE ACTUAL TALKPAGE. PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS IF YOU ARE NOT THE OWNER. THANK YOU<br />
<br />
{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 08:21, 12 December 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Editing Tolkien Gateway ==<br />
<br />
Hi LordAndSaviourSauron,<br />
<br />
It's great that you have such a passion to edit Tolkien Gateway, and contribute to making our wiki even better. But there are a few points I want to raise with you:<br />
<br />
* '''Capital letters''' - in English, proper nouns have capital letters. In your [[Warg Matriarch]] article, there were a number of instances where capital letters were missing, such as "Gundabad", "The Hobbit" and "Thorin.<br />
* '''References''' - when referencing websites we have [[Template:Webcite|a template]] to help you to do that. But, more broadly, we want to see references against claims in articles so that we are able to justify them. This includes the etymology of the character names and specifics within the film trilogies.<br />
* '''Speculation''' - we do not include personal speculation within our articles. Academic, scholarly, or fan speculation can be included so long as it is from a reputable source and specifically states who has suggested it. E.g. "It has been suggested by Tom Shippey that..."<br />
<br />
Just keep those in mind for the future. Thank you! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:34, 14 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Further to the above, please see [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=White_Ship&action=historysubmit&diff=292963&oldid=292950 this edit] on the capitalisation of "Middle-earth". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:14, 23 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi LordAndSaviorSauron,<br />
<br />
::Can I re-emphasise the points above and an extra one:<br />
<br />
::* '''Images''' - please follow the naming conventions of images. In particular, with images from adaptations it should be "File:Name of Adapatation - Name of character/location".<br />
<br />
::It is really important you follow this and the points I raised above. Thanks. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:57, 17 June 2017 (UTC)<br />
:::Ok thanx--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 09:53, 17 June 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Also further to the above, in order to maintain consistency, make sure put the actual name of the movie (or film series, if said item appears in more than one movie) in your image captions instead of saying ''from the movie(s)'', as demonstrated by my edits. --[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 02:32, 10 August 2017 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LordAndSaviourSauron/archives&diff=297349User talk:LordAndSaviourSauron/archives2018-03-03T15:29:31Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Note:''' THIS IS JUST AN ARCHIVE, NOT THE ACTUAL TALKPAGE. PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS IF YOU ARE NOT THE OWNER. THANK YOU<br />
<br />
{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 08:21, 12 December 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Editing Tolkien Gateway ==<br />
<br />
Hi LordAndSaviourSauron,<br />
<br />
It's great that you have such a passion to edit Tolkien Gateway, and contribute to making our wiki even better. But there are a few points I want to raise with you:<br />
<br />
* '''Capital letters''' - in English, proper nouns have capital letters. In your [[Warg Matriarch]] article, there were a number of instances where capital letters were missing, such as "Gundabad", "The Hobbit" and "Thorin.<br />
* '''References''' - when referencing websites we have [[Template:Webcite|a template]] to help you to do that. But, more broadly, we want to see references against claims in articles so that we are able to justify them. This includes the etymology of the character names and specifics within the film trilogies.<br />
* '''Speculation''' - we do not include personal speculation within our articles. Academic, scholarly, or fan speculation can be included so long as it is from a reputable source and specifically states who has suggested it. E.g. "It has been suggested by Tom Shippey that..."<br />
<br />
Just keep those in mind for the future. Thank you! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:34, 14 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Further to the above, please see [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=White_Ship&action=historysubmit&diff=292963&oldid=292950 this edit] on the capitalisation of "Middle-earth". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:14, 23 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi LordAndSaviorSauron,<br />
<br />
::Can I re-emphasise the points above and an extra one:<br />
<br />
::* '''Images''' - please follow the naming conventions of images. In particular, with images from adaptations it should be "File:Name of Adapatation - Name of character/location".<br />
<br />
::It is really important you follow this and the points I raised above. Thanks. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:57, 17 June 2017 (UTC)<br />
:::Ok thanx--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 09:53, 17 June 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Also further to the above, in order to maintain consistency, make sure put the actual name of the movie (or film series, if said item appears in more than one movie) in your image captions instead of saying ''from the movie(s)'', as demonstrated by my edits. --[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 02:32, 10 August 2017 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_Treason_of_Isengard&diff=297183Talk:The Treason of Isengard2018-02-24T19:16:30Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
<hr />
<div>Who in the name of azog is Hamilcar?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:21, 17 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hamilcar "Ham" Bolger. I just scanned it real quick, I think it's a proto-[[Fredegar Bolger|Fatty]]. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:51, 17 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::o--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 19:16, 24 February 2018 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=297089User:LordAndSaviourSauron2018-02-17T16:22:49Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
<hr />
<div>Some random guy who wastes his life online I guess<br />
<br />
[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Orc names]]<br />
<br />
==Films from best to worst==<br />
# Desolation of smaug EE<br />
# Battle of the five armies EE<br />
# An unexpected journey EE<br />
# The return of the king EE<br />
# The fellowship of the ring EE<br />
# The two towers EE</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_Treason_of_Isengard&diff=297088Talk:The Treason of Isengard2018-02-17T16:21:39Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Created page with "Who in the name of azog is Hamilcar?--~~~~"</p>
<hr />
<div>Who in the name of azog is Hamilcar?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:21, 17 February 2018 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Lurtz&diff=296239Lurtz2018-01-13T15:28:33Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Better image</p>
<hr />
<div>{{adaptation}}<br />
{{orc infobox<br />
| name=Lurtz<br />
| image=[[File:The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Lurtz the orc.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Lurtz" from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation=[[Saruman]]<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation= Isengard<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=[[26 February]] {{TA|3019}}<br />
| deathlocation= [[Amon Hen]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor= Killing [[Boromir]]<br />
| house=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=Tall<br />
| hair=Black<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=Sword, Bow<br />
| steed=}}<br />
'''Lurtz''' is a character created specifically for ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''. He was played by [[New Zealand]] actor [[Lawrence Makoare]]. In video games, he is voiced by [[Isaac C. Singleton Jr.]]<br />
<br />
==Role==<br />
Lurtz was the first of [[Saruman]]'s [[Uruk-hai]] to be bred, and led them into battle against the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] at [[Amon Hen]]. Lurtz also appeared to be the largest Uruk-hai. In the book, [[Boromir]] is slain by an unnamed orc or orcs; he is described as having been "pierced by many arrows". In the movie he is killed by Lurtz, who shoots him three times. [[Aragorn]] then intervenes, and after a brief fight stabs Lurtz and then removes his head. <br />
<br />
The character of Lurtz is one of the playable heroes of the Isengard Faction in ''[[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth Anthology]]''.<br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
The name "Lurtz" may have been derived by [[Peter Jackson|Jackson]] and his co-writers from the style of Tolkien's [[Orkish]] language, specifically the name [[Barad-dûr|Lugbúrz]].<br />
<br />
Lurtz's name is never spoken aloud in the film, and is only known from the franchise and credits.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Orcs from adaptations]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=File:File-The_Lord_of_the_Rings_(film_series)_-_Lurtz_the_orc.jpg&diff=296238File:File-The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Lurtz the orc.jpg2018-01-13T15:28:08Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: moved File:File-The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Lurtz the orc.jpg to File:The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Lurtz the orc.jpg: Oops</p>
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<div>#REDIRECT [[File:The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Lurtz the orc.jpg]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=File:The_Lord_of_the_Rings_(film_series)_-_Lurtz_the_orc.jpg&diff=296237File:The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Lurtz the orc.jpg2018-01-13T15:28:08Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: moved File:File-The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Lurtz the orc.jpg to File:The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Lurtz the orc.jpg: Oops</p>
<hr />
<div>== Summary ==<br />
[[Category:Images of Lurtz]]<br />
[[Category:Images from The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]<br />
== Licensing ==<br />
{{Fairuse-Newlinecinema}}</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=File:The_Lord_of_the_Rings_(film_series)_-_Lurtz_the_orc.jpg&diff=296236File:The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Lurtz the orc.jpg2018-01-13T15:27:17Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Category:Images of Lurtz
Category:Images from The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring</p>
<hr />
<div>== Summary ==<br />
[[Category:Images of Lurtz]]<br />
[[Category:Images from The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]<br />
== Licensing ==<br />
{{Fairuse-Newlinecinema}}</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=296235User:LordAndSaviourSauron2018-01-13T12:47:06Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Kay</p>
<hr />
<div>==Bolged==<br />
Taking an injury to the head, derived from Legolas smashing bolg’s head into on a wooden pole four times in The Hobbit:The Desolation of Smaug.<br />
<br />
[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Orc names]]<br />
<br />
==Films from best to worst==<br />
# Desolation of smaug EE<br />
# Battle of the five armies EE<br />
# An unexpected journey EE<br />
# The return of the king EE<br />
# The fellowship of the ring EE<br />
# The two towers EE</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Yazneg&diff=295953Yazneg2017-12-28T07:20:26Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Name and removed speculation regarding fimbul (we dont know if fimbul was already lieutenant)</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Adaptation}}<br />
{{orc infobox<br />
| name=Yazneg<br />
| image=[[File:The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey - Yazneg.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Yazneg" from ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]''<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position= Former Lieutenant of Azog<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation= Azog<br />
| language= Orcish<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death={{TA|2941}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Weathertop]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes= Yellow or Brown<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Yazneg''' was an [[Orcs|Orc]] who was [[Azog]]'s initial lieutenant during his pursuit of [[Thorin and Company]] in the [[The Hobbit (film series)|''Hobbit'' film series]]. He was played by John Rawls. His appearance was derived from early concept designs for Azog.<ref>{{webcite|articleurl=http://atolkienistperspective.wordpress.com/2013/12/16/azog-bolg-and-yazneg-the-trios-tangled-design-history/|articlename=Azog, Bolg … and Yazneg: The trio’s tangled design history|dated=16 December 2013|accessed=17 June 2017|website=[http://atolkienistperspective.wordpress.com A Tolkienist Perspective]}}</ref><br />
<br />
==History==<br />
After spotting the Company of [[Dwarves]] camping out, Yazneg sent [[Fimbul]] to tell Azog that they found Thorin and his Company. They catch up with Thorin near [[Rivendell]], but are distracted by [[Radagast]] and his rabbit sled. However, during the chase, an orc spotted where Thorin and his Company were hiding. The orcs then encircle the dwarves and attempt to attack them, but were forced to retreat due to an attack by [[Elrond]] and his [[Elves|Elven]] forces. Yazneg and Fimbul returned to Weathertop, where Azog ultimately threw Yazneg to the pack's [[Wargs]] to feast upon, with Fimbul becoming his new lieutenant.<br />
==Etymology==<br />
No etymology has ever been given for yazneg, but according to a wordlist on [[David Salo]]’s website, yazneg seems to be made out of ''yaz'' (name) and ''-neg'' (without), and apparently means “Nameless”<ref>https://midgardsmal.com/yrksk-ordabok/</ref><br />
==External links==<br />
*{{WP|John Rawls (actor)}}<br />
{{References}}<br />
[[fi:Yazneg (elokuvahahmo)]]<br />
[[Category:Orcs from adaptations]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Yazneg&diff=295834Talk:Yazneg2017-12-25T17:46:55Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Counciltop}}<br />
<br />
<!-- Start writing after this line --><br />
Okay so according to https://midgardsmal.com/yrksk-ordabok/ (this was made for the movie), yazneg means “Nameless”, should it be added to the article?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 12:54, 25 December 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
To clarify the name seems to be made out of yaz (name) and -neg (without)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 17:46, 25 December 2017 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Yazneg&diff=295833Talk:Yazneg2017-12-25T12:54:43Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Created page with "{{Counciltop}} <!-- Start writing after this line --> Okay so according to https://midgardsmal.com/yrksk-ordabok/ (this was made for the movie), yazneg means “Nameless”, sho..."</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Counciltop}}<br />
<br />
<!-- Start writing after this line --><br />
Okay so according to https://midgardsmal.com/yrksk-ordabok/ (this was made for the movie), yazneg means “Nameless”, should it be added to the article?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 12:54, 25 December 2017 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=295440User:LordAndSaviourSauron2017-11-30T12:18:05Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Bolged==<br />
Taking an injury to the head, derived from Legolas smashing bolg’s head into on a wooden pole four times in The Hobbit:The Desolation of Smaug.</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=295282User:LordAndSaviourSauron2017-11-26T07:37:53Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
<hr />
<div>What’s so great about the new lotr tv series I mean we already got six great movies, do we even need more? (Apart from silmarillion of course)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Rohirrim&diff=295191Rohirrim2017-11-21T04:48:30Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Undo revision 295189 by 131.162.151.178 (talk) Eomer is on the list of kings so no need to mention him twice</p>
<hr />
<div>{{cleanup}}<br />
{{people<br />
|image=[[File:Turner Mohan - The Riders of Rohan.jpg|250px]]<br />
|name=Rohirrim<br />
|dominions=[[Rohan]]<br />
|languages=[[Rohirric]], [[Westron]]<br />
|height=tall<br />
|length=<br />
|skincolor=white<br />
|haircolor=mostly blond<br />
|feathers=<br />
|distinctions=famous horse-masters<br />
|lifespan=av. 70-80 years<br />
|members=[[Eorl]], [[Helm]], [[Théoden]], [[Éomer]], [[Éowyn]]<br />
|}}<br />
The '''Rohirrim''', or the '''Horse-lords''', were a horse people, settling in the land of [[Rohan]], named after them. The name Rohirrim was mostly used by outsiders: the name they had for themselves was '''Eorlingas''', after their king [[Eorl the Young]] who had first brought them to Rohan.<br />
<br />
The terms '''Riders of Rohan''' and '''Riders of the Mark''' are commonly used and refer specifically to their mounted soldiers. The '''King's Riders''' were specifically the Riders who formed the bodyguard of the King.<br />
==History==<br />
The ancestors of the Rohirrim were known as the '''[[Éothéod]]'''<ref>{{UT|Cirion}}</ref>. Those were descendants of the [[Edain]] of the [[First Age]]. They did not go to [[Beleriand]] like the Edain who were later rewarded with the island of [[Númenor]] by the [[Valar]]. According to some views in [[Gondor]] however, the Rohirrim were perhaps directly descented from the [[House of Hador]], perhaps [[Hador]] or his sons.<ref>{{TT|IV5}}</ref><br />
<br />
The Éothéod were a race of [[Men]] that lived in the vales of the Great River [[Anduin]], but that removed to [[Calenardhon]] which was granted them in perpetuity by the [[Stewards of Gondor|Ruling Steward]] of [[Gondor]], [[Cirion]] in reward for the assistance that they offered Gondor at a time of great need, the [[Battle of the Field of Celebrant]].<br />
<br />
Later Calenardhon was renamed [[Rohan]] (''Horse-land'') by the [[Ruling Steward|Steward]] [[Hallas]] after their many horses. By the Rohirrim themselves Rohan was usually called '''[[The Mark]]'''.<br />
<br />
The [[Dúnedain]] of Gondor believed that the Rohirrim were distantly related to them (having descended from the [[Atanatári]] of the [[First Age]]) and described them as ''[[Middle Men]]'', that being inferior to the [[Númenóreans|High Men]] in both culture and descent, but superior to the ''[[Men of Darkness]]'' who had worshipped and served [[Sauron]].<br />
<br />
However, this was a piece of Númenórean fiction meant to satisfy the national pride of the people of Gondor for the surrender of the territory of Calenardhon.<ref>{{UT|Cirion}}</ref><br />
<br />
For the subsequent history of the Rohirrim as allies of Gondor see [[Rohan#History]]<br />
<br />
==Description==<br />
[[Image:John Howe - Rohirrim.jpg|thumb|left|[[John Howe]] - ''Rohirrim'']]<br />
The Rohirrim were tall, blond, and mostly had blue eyes. They prized their horses more than anything, and their entire culture was based around these. They had few cities, but lived in many villages on the plains of Rohan. <br />
<br />
:''They are proud and wilful, but they are true-hearted, generous in thought and deed; bold but not cruel; wise but unlearned, writing no books but singing many songs, after the manner of the children of Men before the Dark Years. '' &#8212; [[The Lord of the Rings]]: The Two Towers<br />
<br />
==Culture==<br />
The Rohirrim had had contacts with [[Elves]] in their ancient history, and knew of [[Ilúvatar|Eru]], but like the Dúnedain they did not worship him in any temples. They seem to have valued the [[Valar|Vala]] [[Oromë]] the Hunter highly, whom they called [[Oromë#History|Béma]]. <br />
<br />
They measured time with a calendar that came from the [[Men of the Vales of Anduin]] and had apparent similarities to the [[Shire Calendar|Calendars of the Shire]] and [[Bree Calendar|Bree]], and to that of the [[Dale]].<ref>{{App|D1}}</ref> These similarities were noted by [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]] in his work ''[[Reckoning of Years]]''.<ref>{{FR|Records}}</ref><br />
<br />
They were ruled by a line of kings descended from Eorl the Young, who had first brought them to Rohan, and in time of war all able men rode to meet the Muster of Rohan.<br />
===[[Horses]]===<br />
[[Image:Peter Xavier Price - The Ride of the Rohirrim.jpg|thumb|right|[[Peter Xavier Price]] - ''The Ride of the Rohirrim'']]<br />
The Rohirrim are famous as skilled horsemen, masters and breeders. Among the horses of the Rohirrim are the famed [[Mearas]], the noblest and fastest horses who have ever roamed [[Arda]]; [[Shadowfax]] was the greatest of all Mearas. There were very few Mearas left in Middle-earth at this point, but there were enough that a breeding population was present. The armies of Rohan are almost exclusively cavalry, divided into irregular units termed [[éoreds]]. Rohan's armies were more of a very well trained militia called upon in times of war, with the actual standing army relatively small. The professional career-soldiers of Rohan may have been limited to the royal bodyguard at Edoras.<br />
<br />
It was because of this close affiliation with horses, both in war and peace, that they received their now famous name. ''Rohirrim'' (or more properly ''Rochirrim'') is [[Sindarin]] for "Horse-lords," and ''Rohan'' (or ''Rochand'') meant "Land of the Horse-lords." These names were devised by Hallas, son of Cirion the Steward.<br />
<br />
During the early days of the [[War of the Ring]], rumours were spread that the Rohirrim supplied Sauron's armies with horses. These rumours were obviously false: the Rohirrim valued their horses more than anything and would never send them away, even as tribute. Still these rumours had some effect in that they obscured the fact it was Saruman who had fallen, rather than Rohan. The basis of the rumour was that Sauron's [[Orcs]] on raids into Rohan stole their horses for use in Mordor's army, but this was outright theft that angered the Rohirrim against Sauron.<br />
<br />
===Language===<br />
{{main|Rohirric}}<br />
The Rohirrim spoke a language descended from that of the [[Éothéod]], related to that of the [[Northmen]] of [[Rhovanion]]. In comparison to [[Westron]], it was mostly archaic and was not easily understood by the speakers of Westron.<br />
<br />
The lords of the Rohirrim used [[Westron]] freely, in the gracious, noble and antique manner of the [[Gondorians]].<ref>{{App|Men}}</ref><br />
<br />
The Rohirrim wrote with a [[Mannish]] version of the [[cirth]], although they did not have a literature, preferring oral tradition.<br />
<br />
== Important Rohirrim ==<br />
<br />
*[[Kings of Rohan]]<br />
* [[Théodred]]<br />
* [[Éowyn]]<br />
* [[Gríma|Gríma Wormtongue]]<br />
*[[Erkenbrand]]<br />
*[[Elfhelm]]<br />
* Various participants in the final wars<br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Rohirrim'' is a [[Sindarin]] name meaning "the host of the Horse-lords",<ref>{{L|144}}, p. 178</ref> consisting of the element ''[[Horses#Names|roch]]'' + ''[[hîr]]'' ("lord, master") + ''[[rim|rĩm]]'' ("host").<ref>{{L|297}}, p. 382</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[:Category:Images of Rohirrim|Images of Rohirrim]]<br />
*[[Kings of Rohan]]<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Northmen]]<br />
[[Category:Rohirrim]]<br />
[[Category:Sindarin demonyms]]<br />
[[de:Rohirrim]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/peuples/hommes/rohirrim]]<br />
[[fi:Rohirrim]]<br />
[[fa:روهیریم]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=295166User:LordAndSaviourSauron2017-11-16T15:29:37Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
<hr />
<div>Tell jackson, that I loved his films. Will you do that? Will you tell mr. Jackson that I loved his films?<br />
<br />
It is too late</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=294958User:LordAndSaviourSauron2017-10-30T17:54:11Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
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<div><span style="color: #003366">(Insert unfunny joke involving orcs here)</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Orc names|An orkish name list, idk]]<br />
<br />
==Films from best to worst==<br />
# Desolation of smaug EE<br />
# Battle of the five armies EE<br />
# The return of the king EE<br />
# An unexpected journey EE<br />
# The fellowship of the ring EE<br />
# The two towers EE<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
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<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
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<!--I should probably move the jokes somewhere else but ya know--></div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=294917User talk:Ederchil2017-10-23T16:01:09Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: /* About my talk page */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
{| align="right"<br />
| __TOC__<br />
|}<br />
<center><br />
=Archive=<br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br />
= 2017 =<br />
</center><br />
<!--Start typing below this line, and below all other messages--><br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br />
<br />
== Discussions ==<br />
Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Complaint and Discussions ==<br />
<br />
Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
== About my edit ==<br />
<br />
Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br />
<br />
Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Battle under the Trees ==<br />
<br />
First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br />
I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br />
<br />
:I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br />
<br />
== What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br />
<br />
No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br />
<br />
As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br />
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:::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
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::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
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:::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Limpe ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br />
<br />
:It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== About my talk page ==<br />
<br />
Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Do not use "Heil". Ever. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::The way I’m using it is a joke tho (it’s a parody)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::That is not a joking matter. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:32, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Whatever--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Insert unfunny orc joke here]] 16:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=294907User talk:Ederchil2017-10-22T16:18:15Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: /* About my talk page */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
{| align="right"<br />
| __TOC__<br />
|}<br />
<center><br />
=Archive=<br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br />
= 2017 =<br />
</center><br />
<!--Start typing below this line, and below all other messages--><br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br />
<br />
== Discussions ==<br />
Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Complaint and Discussions ==<br />
<br />
Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
== About my edit ==<br />
<br />
Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br />
<br />
Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Battle under the Trees ==<br />
<br />
First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br />
I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br />
<br />
:I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br />
<br />
== What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br />
<br />
No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br />
<br />
As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Limpe ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br />
<br />
:It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== About my talk page ==<br />
<br />
Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Heil melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Do not use "Heil". Ever. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 22 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::The way I’m using it is a joke tho (it’s a parody)--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Heil melkor?]] 16:18, 22 October 2017 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=294905User talk:Ederchil2017-10-22T15:50:03Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: /* About my talk page */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
{| align="right"<br />
| __TOC__<br />
|}<br />
<center><br />
=Archive=<br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br />
= 2017 =<br />
</center><br />
<!--Start typing below this line, and below all other messages--><br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br />
<br />
== Discussions ==<br />
Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Complaint and Discussions ==<br />
<br />
Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
== About my edit ==<br />
<br />
Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br />
<br />
Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Battle under the Trees ==<br />
<br />
First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br />
I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br />
<br />
:I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br />
<br />
== What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br />
<br />
No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br />
<br />
As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Limpe ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br />
<br />
:It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== About my talk page ==<br />
<br />
Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Hail melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It's a public record of all communications to you. There's no need to "archive" it unless it's really a long page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Also why are you editing my signature?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Heil melkor?]] 15:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=294879User talk:Ederchil2017-10-20T16:03:41Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: /* About my talk page */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
{| align="right"<br />
| __TOC__<br />
|}<br />
<center><br />
=Archive=<br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br />
= 2017 =<br />
</center><br />
<!--Start typing below this line, and below all other messages--><br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br />
<br />
== Discussions ==<br />
Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Complaint and Discussions ==<br />
<br />
Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
== About my edit ==<br />
<br />
Why did you undo my edit on the nazgul page? When you actually look at the battle of the morannon, you can actually see a wraith falling of his steed during the battle [http://cdn.roaring.earth/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Eagles-vs-Nazgul.png (A screenshot of the wraith in question)]<br />
<br />
Not complaining about anything here, just asking--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 18:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"They are taken out" covers the scene. Whether one was alive or dead is speculation. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
::Ah okay. Also tbh i wonder what would happen if one survived the destruction of the ring--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 04:19, 2 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Battle under the Trees ==<br />
<br />
First of all, thanks for reminding me not to capitalize under. Obviously a bit miffed you deleted it so quickly, but admittedly there was a bit of conjecture in it. I would point out that by putting 'maybe' I clearly labled my conjecture, whereas there are plenty of articles that don't, for example: 'The battle was incredibly important in the course of the War of the Ring: if Sauron's Easterling armies had beaten the Dwarves and Men of Dale, they would have been able to join up with Sauron's forces from Dol Guldur in their attacks on the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood and Lothlórien, tipping the scales in favor of Mordor.'<br />
I don't see how saying that Thranduil's army in Mirkwood would have probably exceeded that in 2941 is much more problematic. Anyway, what I'm proposing is that I write a more basic version of the article, then submit it to you or another administrator before saving it. Frankly, the Gateway's current stuff on the War of the Ring is pretty poor, and we could really do with a few short articles on the battles. The current War template leaves out half the conflict. It's fair enough to get rid of conjecture, but I'll happily do that for you. {{unsigned|Hazad}}<br />
<br />
:I didn't delete it quickly - not as quickly as I've deleted other articles. I was busy copy editing it, fixing the sources and everything, but without all the speculation, there really wasn't much of a history section left. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 05:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hazad: IIRC, there was a discussion about having an article about a "Battle under the Trees" a couple of years ago, ultimately reaching a consensus similar to Michael Martinez' [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/10/12/what-was-the-battle-of-mirkwood/ thoughts on the subject]. Thus, if there are details missing about the battle(s) in Mirkwood, I would advise adding these to the [[Mirkwood#History|history section of Mirkwood]]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 06:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
OK, thanks for getting back to me. I have read that Martinez article and to be honest I think it's a bit below his usual standards, in that when Tolkien writes 'battle under the trees' he is clearly referring to Mirkwood in particular, rather than Mirkwood and Lorien. But anyhow no matter. While I'm asking, why is the War of the Elves and Sauron page protected, when it's marked as in need of expansion? (really needs to be added to, the only reference is Appendix B)<br />
<br />
== What did I do wrong with the Warg matriarch image? ==<br />
<br />
No offense but i seriously have no idea what you meant with "no source" when you deleted the image<br />
<br />
As for the infobox, i couldnt do much better since im on an ipad and the editing interface doesnt work that well on my ipad--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 19:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:All images need a source category and subject categories. I deleted that one because I couldn't guess which of the three it was from. You like it? You source it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Oh now i get it. Guess ill reupload it tomorrow since i know where its from--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 21:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::And the other two images? what was wrong with those? {{unsigned|LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:::Duplicates of each other, and no point to illustrate it on the article. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Oh, but idk if an image of how the eye appears in the hobbit would actually be pointless, since it looks quite different than what the eye looked like in LOTR.--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 20:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::It looked fairly similar. If they're different, describe the differences on the relevant page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Limpe ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I was adding some information on the drink Limpe which is canon. Look it up. And it's not copyrighted. I have the darn link right here as proof.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_food_and_drink_in_Middle-earth#Limp.C3.ABSo could you kindly tell me the reason for the deletion please? {{unsigned|Tolkienfan31}}<br />
<br />
:It had no source, no proper layout, no proper markup, the wrong title, no categories... It wasn't an article, it was juse a random line. There's more to an article than being right or wrong. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 04:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== About my talk page ==<br />
<br />
Just blanked it cause the discussions on it didn’t really have a point anymore and to make space for new stuff--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Heil melkor?]] 16:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LordAndSaviourSauron/archives&diff=294878User talk:LordAndSaviourSauron/archives2017-10-20T16:02:22Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Created page with " {{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=LordAndSaviourSauron}} -- <span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span> <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''..."</p>
<hr />
<div><br />
{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=LordAndSaviourSauron}}<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 08:21, 12 December 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Editing Tolkien Gateway ==<br />
<br />
Hi LordAndSaviourSauron,<br />
<br />
It's great that you have such a passion to edit Tolkien Gateway, and contribute to making our wiki even better. But there are a few points I want to raise with you:<br />
<br />
* '''Capital letters''' - in English, proper nouns have capital letters. In your [[Warg Matriarch]] article, there were a number of instances where capital letters were missing, such as "Gundabad", "The Hobbit" and "Thorin.<br />
* '''References''' - when referencing websites we have [[Template:Webcite|a template]] to help you to do that. But, more broadly, we want to see references against claims in articles so that we are able to justify them. This includes the etymology of the character names and specifics within the film trilogies.<br />
* '''Speculation''' - we do not include personal speculation within our articles. Academic, scholarly, or fan speculation can be included so long as it is from a reputable source and specifically states who has suggested it. E.g. "It has been suggested by Tom Shippey that..."<br />
<br />
Just keep those in mind for the future. Thank you! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:34, 14 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Further to the above, please see [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=White_Ship&action=historysubmit&diff=292963&oldid=292950 this edit] on the capitalisation of "Middle-earth". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:14, 23 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi LordAndSaviorSauron,<br />
<br />
::Can I re-emphasise the points above and an extra one:<br />
<br />
::* '''Images''' - please follow the naming conventions of images. In particular, with images from adaptations it should be "File:Name of Adapatation - Name of character/location".<br />
<br />
::It is really important you follow this and the points I raised above. Thanks. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:57, 17 June 2017 (UTC)<br />
:::Ok thanx--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 09:53, 17 June 2017 (UTC)<br />
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:Also further to the above, in order to maintain consistency, make sure put the actual name of the movie (or film series, if said item appears in more than one movie) in your image captions instead of saying ''from the movie(s)'', as demonstrated by my edits. --[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 02:32, 10 August 2017 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=294877User talk:LordAndSaviourSauron2017-10-20T16:02:13Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Replaced content with "Leave orcs here or whatever. If you want to spam, feel free, idgaf really
User talk:LordAndSaviourSauron/archives"</p>
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<div>Leave orcs here or whatever. If you want to spam, feel free, idgaf really<br />
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[[User talk:LordAndSaviourSauron/archives]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=294872User talk:LordAndSaviourSauron2017-10-20T14:01:59Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: Replaced content with "Leave orcs here or whatever. If you want to spam, feel free, idgaf really"</p>
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<div>Leave orcs here or whatever. If you want to spam, feel free, idgaf really</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:LordAndSaviourSauron&diff=294871User:LordAndSaviourSauron2017-10-20T14:01:18Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: </p>
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<div><span style="color: #003366">Whats the difference between a gundabad orc and a gundamad orc?<br />
<br/><br/>One is a fan of michael jackson and the other one watches MAD TV nonstop!</span><br />
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[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron/Orc names|An orkish name list, idk]]<br />
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==Films from best to worst==<br />
# Desolation of smaug EE<br />
# Battle of the five armies EE<br />
# The return of the king EE<br />
# An unexpected journey EE<br />
# The fellowship of the ring EE<br />
# The two towers EE<br />
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<!--I should probably move the jokes somewhere else but ya know--></div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Sebastian&diff=294730Sebastian2017-10-04T15:30:41Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: That was just a random hedgehog</p>
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<div>{{stub}}<br />
{{adaptation}}<br />
[[File:The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey- Sebastian the hedgehog.jpg|thumb|220px|Sebastian in ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]'']]<br />
'''Sebastian''' is the name of [[Radagast]]'s hedgehog in [[Peter Jackson]]'s film ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]''. Radagast discovers a sickness falling upon [[Mirkwood|Greenwood the Great]] while just outside his [[Rhosgobel|home]] one day, seeing several plants and animals that are dead or dying -- Sebastian being one of the latter. He brings the hedgehog back in an attempt to revive him, but none of his home remedies work. In the process, several large [[spiders]] begin to descend on [[Rhosgobel]]. Radagast decides to use his [[magic]] on Sebastian, and when he finishes his incantation of the spell, the spiders return to the [[Dol Guldur|place]] from whence they came. Meanwhile, the spell has cured Sebastian, and he appears completely back to normal.<br />
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Sebastian is featured in the figurine "Radagast the Brown with Sebastian" released for ''[[The Hobbit Strategy Battle Game]]'', displayed hiding by the feet of Radagast.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat970003a&prodId=prod1870030a|articlename=Radagast the Brown with Sebastian|dated=|website=[http://www.games-workshop.com/ Games-Workshop.com]|accessed=30 January 2013}}</ref><br />
==See also==<br />
*[[:Category:Images of Sebastian|Images of Sebastian]]<br />
==External links==<br />
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*[http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=540815;guest=58815565 Fans discussing Sebastian] at [[TheOneRing.net]]<br />
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{{References}}<br />
[[Category:Animals from adaptations]]<br />
[[fi:Sebastian (elokuvahahmo)]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=File:The_Hobbit_-_An_Unexpected_Journey-_Sebastian_the_hedgehog.jpg&diff=294729File:The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey- Sebastian the hedgehog.jpg2017-10-04T15:29:21Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: ==Licensing==
{{Fairuse-Newlinecinema}}
Category:Images of Sebastian
Category:Images from The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey</p>
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<div>==Licensing==<br />
{{Fairuse-Newlinecinema}}<br />
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[[Category:Images of Sebastian]]<br />
[[Category:Images from The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Famous_fans&diff=294711Talk:Famous fans2017-10-01T11:55:37Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: /* Do we even need this? */</p>
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<div>==Delete==<br />
I was tempted to delete this, but there might an idea here worth saving? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:27, 11 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Maybe merging it with [[Tolkien fandom]]. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 20:31, 11 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::It's rather poorly sourced. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:39, 11 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Future? ==<br />
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If saved, would it be better as "List of famous Tolkien fans"? The sourcing seems a little better now. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:37, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
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== Do we even need this? ==<br />
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I mean, lets be honest, who does NOT like tolkien?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|Heil melkor?]] 11:54, 1 October 2017 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Famous_fans&diff=294710Talk:Famous fans2017-10-01T11:54:19Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: /* Do we even need this? */</p>
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<div>==Delete==<br />
I was tempted to delete this, but there might an idea here worth saving? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:27, 11 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Maybe merging it with [[Tolkien fandom]]. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 20:31, 11 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::It's rather poorly sourced. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:39, 11 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Future? ==<br />
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If saved, would it be better as "List of famous Tolkien fans"? The sourcing seems a little better now. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:37, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
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== Do we even need this? ==<br />
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I mean, lets be honest, who does NOT like tolkien?--[[User:LordAndSaviourSauron|LordAndSaviourSauron]] 11:54, 1 October 2017 (UTC)</div>LordAndSaviourSauronhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Famous_fans&diff=294709Talk:Famous fans2017-10-01T11:54:07Z<p>LordAndSaviourSauron: /* Do we even need this? */ new section</p>
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<div>==Delete==<br />
I was tempted to delete this, but there might an idea here worth saving? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:27, 11 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Maybe merging it with [[Tolkien fandom]]. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 20:31, 11 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::It's rather poorly sourced. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:39, 11 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Future? ==<br />
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If saved, would it be better as "List of famous Tolkien fans"? The sourcing seems a little better now. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:37, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
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== Do we even need this? ==<br />
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I mean, lets be honest, who does NOT like tolkien?</div>LordAndSaviourSauron