Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

User talk:Hyarion

2008-02-13T16:05:14Z

Sinthoras:

Thorin and Company

2007-12-23T14:45:12Z

Sinthoras:

'''Thorin and Company''' refers to the thirteen [[Dwarves]] who famously travelled into the east of [[Middle-earth]] under the leadership of [[Thorin Oakenshield]] to seek revenge against [[Smaug]] and the recovery of [[Lonely Mountain]]. Thorin's company were [[Balin]], [[Dwalin]], [[Fíli]], [[Kíli]], [[Dori]], [[Nori]], [[Ori]], [[Óin]], [[Glóin]], [[Bifur]], [[Bofur]], and [[Bombur]]. They were joined by [[Gandalf]] and [[Bilbo Baggins]].

[[Category:Organizations]]

[[de:Thorin & Co.]]

Thráin I

2007-12-22T14:36:42Z

Sinthoras: de, fi

{{dwarves infobox
| image=
| name=Thráin (I)
| othernames=
| life=[[Third Age 1934]] - [[Third Age 2190]], lived 256 years
| realm=[[Lonely Mountain]]
| parentage=[[Náin I]]
| lineage=[[Durin's line]]
| hood=
| gender=Male
|}}
'''Thráin I''' ([[Third Age]] 1934 – 2190, aged 256 years) was the son of [[Náin I]] and King of [[Durin's folk]] for 209 years, from 1981 to 2190. His father was slain by a [[Durin's Bane|Balrog]] and the [[Dwarves]] of [[Khazad-dûm]] driven from their home. Thráin led a portion of his people east to [[Lonely Mountain]], were he became the first [[King under the Mountain]]. Among the riches he found there was the fabled [[Arkenstone]]. He was succeeded by his son [[Thorin I]].

== Genealogy ==
<code>
[[Durin VI]]
|
|
[[Náin I]]
|
|
'''THRÁIN I'''
|
|
[[Thorin I]]
</code>
{{sequence
|prev=[[Náin I]]
|next=[[Thorin I]]
|list=[[King of Durin's Folk]] <code>III</code> 1981 – 2190
}}
{{sequence
|prev=none
|next=[[Thorin I]]
|list=1st [[King under the Mountain]] <code>III</code> c. 1999 – 2190
}}

[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:Longbeards]]

[[de:Thráin I.]]
[[fi:Thráin I]]

Yavanna

2007-11-10T12:32:05Z

Sinthoras: interwiki:de,fi

[[Image:Daniel Govar - Yavanna.jpg|thumb|''Yavanna'', by [[Daniel Govar]]]]
'''Yavanna Kementári''' is a [[Valar|Valië]], her first name (in [[Quenya]]) means "[[Giver of Fruits]]" and her surname ''Kementári'' means "Queen of the Earth". She is also called ''Palúrien''. The [[Sindarin]] form of ''Yavanna'' is '''Ivon''', while the Sindarin form of ''Kementári'' is '''Címir'''. She is the wife of [[Aulë]] and is responsible for the growth of all the fruits and growing things of the World.

After [[Eru]] allowed Aulë's creations, the [[Dwarves]], to survive, Yavanna feared that they would cut down all the trees in [[Middle-earth]]. [[Aulë]], in reply, told her that even [[Elves]] and [[Men]], the true [[Children of Ilúvatar]] would have need of her trees as well. Yavanna lamented to [[Manwë]], questioning whether anything she had made would be free from the dominion of others. Manwë brought her concerns before [[Ilúvatar]] in prayer, and Eru did indeed have pity upon Yavanna: He answered her plea by creating the [[Ents]] to protect the trees.

{{valar}}

[[Category:Valar]]

[[de:Yavanna]]
[[fi:Yavanna]]

Aerandir

2007-11-07T08:21:46Z

Sinthoras:

'''Aerandir''' is [[Sindarin]] for "Sea Wanderer". One of the three mariners to accompany [[Eärendil the Mariner|Eärendil]] on his voyage to [[Aman]].

[[Category:Elves]]

[[de:Aerandir]]
[[fi:Aerandir]]

Aredhel Ar-Feiniel

2007-11-04T12:10:31Z

Sinthoras: interwiki links

{{noldor infobox
| image=[[Image:Anke Eissmann - Aredhel.jpg|300px]]
| name=Aredhel Ar-Feiniel
| quenya=[[Irissë]]
| titles=Princess of [[Gondolin]]
| birth=Sometime during [[YOTT]], [[Tirion]]
| realm=[[Gondolin]]
| death=c. [[First Age 400]]
| age=500+
| parentage=[[Fingolfin]] + [[Anairë]]
| spouse=[[Eöl]]
| children=[[Maeglin]]
| gender=Female
| hair=Dark
| ref=''[[The Silmarillion]]''
|}}
'''Aredhel''' ([[Years of the Trees]] 1362 – [[First Age]] 400, aged approx. 1,720 years), called '''''[[Ar-Feiniel]]''''', the White Lady of the [[Ñoldor]], was the daughter of High King [[Fingolfin]] and [[Anairë]], sister of [[Fingon]], [[Turgon the Wise|Turgon]], and [[Argon]], and mother of [[Maeglin]].

She was tall and strong, fond of hunting and riding in the forests. Her skin was pale and her hair dark; she always wore silver and white. Though fond of the sons of [[Fëanor]], she never fell in love with any of them.

==History==

After arriving in [[Middle-earth]], she dwelt in [[Nevrast]] with Turgon, and went with him to [[Gondolin]]. But after two hundred years the longing for the forests and wide lands overcame her, and she asked leave to depart. Turgon was unwilling, fearing the exposure of the [[Gondolin|Hidden Kingdom]], but eventually relented.

Riding with companions, they were denied entrance to [[Doriath]], it being closed to the [[Ñoldor]], and so they went around to the north, where she was separated in the dangerous region of [[Nan Dungortheb]] and reported lost. But she reached [[Himlad]] safely, and waited there to meet [[Celegorm]] who was abroad, but eventually she wandered out of boredom, and became lost in the forest of [[Nan Elmoth]].

[[Eöl]] the [[Dark Elf]] ruled those woods; they met, and he led to his home, where she stayed for many years, and were married. They had a son named Maeglin, and telling him of her former life and home, she desired to see them again, and left Nan Elmoth with Maeglin while Eöl was away. They reached Gondolin (not realizing that Eöl was following them all the while), and were received with rejoicing. Eöl was also discovered and brought before Turgon, but rather than accept Turgon's judgement, he attempted to kill his son. Aredhel stepped in front of the stab, but because it was a poisoned dart, she died that night from the wound.

Eöl was cast down from the city walls and died, while Maeglin became mighty in Gondolin and later betrayed it to [[Morgoth]].

==Etymology==

Her name in [[Quenya]] was '''[[Irissë]]'''.

Note on pronunciation: Aredhel should be pronounced ''ar-eth-el'' (hard "th"), not ''ar-ed-hel''.

== Other Versions of the Legendarium ==
The names '''Aredhel''' ("noble Elf") and '''[[Ar-Feiniel]]''' ("noble white lady") were both originally intended to stand alone, and be used as the main name of Irissë. While preparing ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' for publication [[Christopher Tolkien]] could not discover which name was intended to be used as her final name, and he therefore chose to use both names: a decision he later stated in [[the History of Middle-earth]] series was possibly mistaken.

[[Category:High Elves]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[Category:House of Finwë]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Gondolin and Turgon]]

[[de:Aredhel]]
[[fi:Aredhel]]

Great boar of Everholt

2007-11-02T15:28:56Z

Sinthoras:

[[Image:Jeremy Bennett - Folca hunting the Boar of Everholt.jpg|thumb|300px|[[Folca]] hunting the Boar of Everholt by [[Jeremy Bennett]] for [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]].]]
The '''Boar of Everholt''' was a monstrous beast that inhabited [[Everholt]] in the [[Firien Wood]], around the feet of the [[Halifirien]] in the [[White Mountains]]. The great hunter [[Folca]] of [[Rohan]], having rid his country of the [[Orcs]], set out to hunt down the [[Boars|boar]]. He succeeded, but received mortal tusk-wounds that brought his Kingship to an end.

[[Category:Animals]]

[[de:Eber von Everholt]]

The Shire

2007-10-05T15:28:46Z

Sinthoras: german interwiki

{{kingdom
| image = [[Image:fotr0066.jpg|300px]]
| name = The Shire
| meaning =
| type = Thainship
| hidep=yes
| headofstate = [[King of Arnor]] (de facto), [[Thain]], [[Mayor of Michel Delving]]
| executive = [[Shirriffs]]
| legislative =
| judicial =
| capital = [[Hobbiton]]
| language = [[Westron]]
| location = Central [[Eriador]]
| populace= [[Hobbits]]
| currency =
| religious =
| holiday =
| anthem =
| formed = The westward migration of Hobbits led by [[Marcho]] and [[Blanco]]
| established = [[Third Age 1600|T.A. 1600]]
| reorganized =
| fragmented =
| dissolved =
| restored =
}}
'''The Shire''' is the region that is occupied by [[Hobbits]]. It is located in the northwest of Middle-earth, in the 'continent' of [[Eriador]] and the Kingdom of [[Arnor]]. Its name in [[Westron]] was '''Sûza''' "Shire" or '''Sûzat''' "The Shire".

According to Tolkien, the Shire measured 40 leagues (193 km, 120 [[Númenórean]] miles) from the Far Downs in the west to the Brandywine Bridge in the east, and 50 leagues (241 km, 150 miles) from the northern moors to the marshes in the south. This is confirmed in an essay by Tolkien (on the Languages of Middle-earth) wherein he describes The Shire as having an area of 18,000 square miles (47,000 km²). In order for this figure to be accurate it must be assumed that the Shire was roughly rectangular in shape.

The Brandywine ([[Baranduin]]) river bounds the Shire from the east. (Hobbits also live in ''Buckland'', which lies east of the river and west of the Hedge protecting the Shire from invasion from the [[Old Forest]]; however, Buckland was not formally recognised as part of The Shire until after the [[War of the Ring]], when it was granted officially to The Shire by [[Aragorn]] King Elessar.) From the north and the west The Shire has no topographical borders, but rather is bounded by the ancient south and east roads, and by vague geographical features such as the [[Tower Hills]].

The Shire was settled by Hobbits in the year 1601 of the Third Age (Year 1 in Shire Reckoning). The Hobbits (who originally lived in the vale of [[Anduin]]) had migrated west over the perilous [[Misty Mountains]] in the decades before that, and before entering The Shire they had lived in [[Dunland]] and parts of the depopulated [[Arnor]]ian splinter-realms [[Cardolan]] and [[Rhudaur]]. It has been speculated that the Hobbits had originally moved west to escape the evils of [[Mirkwood]], and the trouble caused by the [[Easterlings]].

[[Image:Ted Nasmith - One Morning Long Ago.jpg|thumb|left|250px|''One Morning Long Ago'' by [[Ted Nasmith]].]]
The Shire was a part of [[Arthedain]], and as such a part of Arnor. The Hobbits got official permission from King [[Argeleb II]] at Norbury ([[Fornost]]) to settle the lands, which were not populated and seen as the King's hunting grounds. The Hobbits considered themselves as subjects of the King, and sent some support troops to the great battles Arnor fought against [[Angmar]]. After the fall of Arnor, the Shire remained a minor but independent political unit.

Its small size, relative lack of importance, and brave and resilient Hobbit population made it too modest an objective for conquest. More important was that the Shire was guarded and protected by the [[Dúnedain]] Rangers, who watched the borders and kept out intruders. The only strangers to enter the Shire were the [[Dwarves]] travelling on the [[Great East Road]] that ran through the Shire to and from their mines in the [[Blue Mountains]], and the occasional [[Elves]] on their way to the [[Grey Havens]].

Officials of the Shire were the '''[[Mayor of Michel Delving|Mayor]]''' of [[Michel Delving]] in the [[White Downs]] (by extension seen as the [[Mayor of the Shire]]), the '''[[Thain]]''' from ''[[Tuckborough]]'' who was the head of the important [[Took Family|Took clan]], and the '''[[Master of Buckland]]''' at ''[[Bucklebury]]''. While nominally the Thain ruled over the four [[Farthings]], in practice authority was so decentralized that the title was seen as more of a formality. The Mayor's chief duties were serving as postmaster of the Shire's mail service and presiding at fairs, while the Master controlled Buckland.

This peaceful situation changed after [[Bilbo Baggins]]' acquisition of the [[The One Ring|One Ring]] in the year 1343 of the Shire Reckoning. Shortly after the beginning of the events described in [[The Lord of the Rings]] (autumn of the year 1419 in Shire Reckoning), the Shire was first visited by the Nine [[Ringwraiths]] and then captured by [[Saruman]]. It was liberated with the help of [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]], [[Sam Gamgee|Sam]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]] and [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] after the end of the Quest of the Ring through their victory at the [[Battle of Bywater]]. After [[Aragorn]]'s return as the King of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], the Shire became a protected enclave inside the Reunited Kingdom. He is known to have issued an order that forbade the entrance of full-sized [[Men]] into the Shire.

[[Image:fotr0059.jpg|300px|left|thumb|The Shire in [[Peter Jackson's The Fellowship of the Ring]].]]

The Shire is described as a small but beautiful and fruitful land, beloved by its inhabitants. The Hobbits had an extensive agricultural system in the Shire, but did not proceed with industrialization. Various supplies could be found in the Shire, including cereals, fruit, wood and tobacco (a favourite treat of Hobbits). Its relatively peaceful existence during the perilous period preceding the defeat of [[Sauron]] can be attributed to the vigilance of [[Gandalf]] and [[Rangers of the North]] led by [[Aragorn]] who used daring tactics to keep evil at bay. However when these set out to a distant war, the Shire became essentially defenceless, which led to its capture. But the damage which Saruman caused by forced industrialization was undone by the Hobbits' efforts. The Shire was restored with soil from [[Lórien]], given to Sam by [[Galadriel]]. The year 1420 (SR) was considered by the inhabitants of the Shire to be the most productive and prosperous year in their history.

The industrialization of the Shire was based on Tolkien's witnessing of the extension of the Industrial Revolution to rural Warwickshire during his youth, and especially the deleterious consequences thereof. The rebellion of the hobbits and the restoration of the pre-industrial Shire may be interpreted as a prescription of voluntary simplicity as a remedy to the problems of modern society.

On Tolkien's maps, the Shire is located at about the same position as England is on modern European maps and has been cited as an example of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_England#Deep_England Deep England] ideology (of course, England being an island while Shire is inside the continent). Throughout the narrative, Tolkien also implies numerous points of similarity between the two, such as weather, agriculture and dialect. One can also see England as Tolkien's source of inspiration for the Shire in its very name.

The Shire was originally divided in four Farthings (''[[Northfarthing]]'', ''[[Southfarthing]]'', ''[[Eastfarthing]]'', and ''[[Westfarthing]]''), but [[Buckland]] and later the [[Westmarch]] were added to it. Within the Farthings there are some smaller, unofficial divisions such as family lands: the [[Took Family|Tooks]] nearly all live in or near Tuckborough in Tookland, for instance. In many cases a Hobbit's last name indicates where their family came from: [[Samwise Gamgee]]'s last name derives from ''Gamwich'', where the family originated. Outside the Farthings, Buckland itself was named for the [[Oldbucks]] (later [[Brandybuck Family|Brandybucks]]). See further ''[[Regions of the Shire]]''.

The Shire was quite densely populated in parts with many villages and a few towns, but it still was open enough to allow for wide forested areas and marshes.

==Inspiration==
{{quote|Though a Tolkien by name, I am a Suffield by tastes, talents, and upbringing, and '''any comer of that county [Worcestershire] (however fair or squalid) is in an indefinable way 'home' to me, as no other part of the world is.'''|[[Letter 44]]}}

==See also==
*[[Thain|Thains of the Shire]]

[[Category:Shire]]
[[Category:Eriador]]
[[Category:Realms]]

[[de:Auenland]]

Frodo Baggins

2007-10-05T15:28:06Z

Sinthoras: german interwiki

{{Hobbit
| image = [[Image:Grant Gould - Frodo and Gollum.jpg|250px]]
| name = Frodo Baggins
| othernames = See Names section
| birth = September 22, [[Third Age 2968|2968 T.A.]]
| death = Not known
| parentage = Primula Brandybuck, Drogo Baggins
| location=Bag End, Hobbiton
| race = [[Hobbits]]
| gender = Male
| height =
| hair = Brown
| eyes = Blue
}}

'''Frodo Baggins''' is a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] (or halfling), born on September 22 of the year 2968 of the [[Third Age]] (T.A.) to [[Drogo Baggins]] and [[Primula Brandybuck]].

==History==
===Early life===
Frodo was born to [[Drogo Baggins]] and [[Primula Brandybuck]] on September 22nd, [[Third Age 2968]]. He spent much of his youth at [[Brandy Hall]] in [[Buckland]], the home of his mother's family. He was considered something of a rascal, particularly by [[Farmer Maggot]] from whom Frodo stole mushrooms. In 2980 when Frodo was only twelve years old he lost both his parents took a boat out onto the [[Brandywine River]] and drowned. With no siblings, Frodo was taken in by the [[Brandybucks]] to live at [[Brandy Hall]] until his cousin, [[Bilbo Baggins]], adopted him and made Frodo his heir.

===Later life===
In 2989, Frodo came under the guardianship of [[Bilbo Baggins]], whom he thinks of as his ''uncle'' (though Frodo was actually his first ''and'' second cousin once removed, since his mother is Bilbo's first cousin, and his father is Bilbo's second cousin). Frodo was 21 years old at the time, still far short of his coming of adult age at 33. The childless Bilbo chose Frodo as his adoptive heir, and brought him to live at [[Bag End]].

Bilbo and Frodo share a common birthday on September 22 but Bilbo is 78 years Frodo's senior. At the opening of ''The Lord of the Rings'', Frodo and Bilbo are celebrating their 33rd and 111th birthdays, respectively, on September 22, T.A. 3001.

[[Image:Igor Kordej - Hobbit.jpg|thumb|left|275px|''Hobbit'' by [[Igor Kordej]].]]
===War of the Ring===
Frodo was entrusted with the keeping of the [[One Ring]] when Bilbo left for [[Rivendell]] after the celebration. [[Gandalf]] warned Frodo that the Ring must never be used and should be kept secret. (At the time, he was not yet certain that it was a [[Rings of Power|Ring of Power]].) Frodo kept the Ring hidden for seventeen years, until T.A. 3018, when Gandalf returned to confirm that it was indeed the [[One Ring]]. Gandalf sent him away with [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam Gamgee]], who was Frodo's gardener and eventually his dearest friend. Together with [[Peregrin I Took|Peregrin Took]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]] and later [[Aragorn|Strider]], they made it to the [[Rivendell|House of Elrond]]. There, at Elrond's Council, it was decided that the Ring must be destroyed by casting it into the [[Crack of Doom]]. A [[Fellowship of the Ring|Fellowship]] was formed to protect Frodo as the [[Ring-bearer]]. His quest to destroy the Ring forms a large portion of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''.

Frodo carried a small Elven sword (actually a dagger) called [[Sting]] and wore a coat of Dwarven chainmail made of [[Mithril]] under his clothes, both given to him by Bilbo. At [[Lothlórien]], [[Galadriel]] gave him an Elven cloak and a phial carrying the light of the star [[Eärendil]] to aid him on his quest.

Two years after the Ring was destroyed, still troubled by the wounds he received during the War of the Ring, Frodo and Bilbo as Ring-bearers were given the right to travel to [[Valinor]] where, though remaining mortal, they might rest and be healed, together with [[Gandalf]], [[Elrond]] and [[Galadriel]]. They boarded a ship from the [[Grey Havens]] and passed over the sea on September 29, T.A. 3021. Having no children of his own, Frodo left his estate and passed on the [[Red Book of Westmarch|Red Book]] to [[Samwise Gamgee]] who followed Frodo across the sea 61 years later, following the death of his wife [[Rose Cotton|Rose (nee) Cotton]].

[[Image:Elizabeth Wyeth - Frodo's Journal.jpg|thumb|left|''Frodo's Journal'' by Elizabeth Wyeth.]]
The name ''Frodo Baggins'' is an English translation of his [[Westron]] name '''Maura Labingi'''. The name ''Maura'' has the element ''maur-'' (wise, experienced), which Tolkien equivalated to the Germanic element ''frod-'' of the same meaning. Frodo's name in [[Sindarin]] was '''''Iorhael''''' ("old-wise").

In the German translation he is called ''Frodo Beutlin'', in Spanish, ''Frodo Bolsón'', in French, ''Frodon Sacquet'', in Norwegian, ''Frodo Lommelun'', in Danish, ''Frodo Sækker'', in Faroese, ''Fróði Pjøkin'' in Finnish, ''Frodo Reppuli'' and in Dutch, ''Frodo Balings''. In one of three Polish translations he is called ''Frodo Bagosz'', but he keeps his original name in the other two.

== Frodo's Struggles ==
[[Image:Olanda Fong-Surdenas - Corruption.jpg|thumb|''Corruption'' by [[Olanda Fong-Surdenas]].]]
Notably, Frodo Baggins never actually killed anything in the course of the ''Lord of the Rings''. He did, however, stand up to fight against some formidable adversaries. He foolishly attempted to fight the [[Nazgûl]] at [[Weathertop]], and he stabbed a [[troll]] in the foot in [[Moria]] to keep it from forcing open a door.

Frodo was wounded several times in the ''Lord of the Rings''. The first came when he tried to fight the Nazgul at Weathertop and was stabbed with a [[Morgul blade]]. He was later knocked out by an orc's thrown spear in Moria, but the [[mithril]] armor [[Bilbo]] had given him saved his life. He was poisoned by [[Shelob]] in the pass of [[Cirith Ungol]] and later questioned by orcs in the tower. Finally, [[Gollum]] bit off his finger to obtain the [[One Ring]] as they struggled inside [[Mount Doom]].

== Adaptations ==
In [[Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings]] ([[1978]]), Frodo was voiced by [[Christopher Guard]]. [[Billy Barty]] was the model for Frodo, as well as Bilbo and Sam, in the live-action recordings Bakshi used for rotoscoping.

In [[Rankin/Bass' The Return of the King]] ([[1980]]), made for television, the character was voiced by [[Orson Bean]], who had previously played Bilbo in [[Rankin/Bass' The Hobbit]].

In the 1981 BBC radio serial of The Lord of the Rings, Frodo is played by [[Ian Holm]], who later played Bilbo in [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]] (2001-03).

In Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings, Frodo is played by [[Elijah Wood]].

On stage, Frodo was portrayed by [[James Loye]] in the three-hour stage production of The Lord of the Rings, which opened in Toronto in [[2006]], and was brought to London in [[2007]]. In the United States, Frodo was portrayed by Joe Sofranko in the Cincinnati productions of The Fellowship of the Ring (2001), The Two Towers (2002), and The Return of the King (2003) for Clear Stage Cincinnati. In Chicago, Patrick Blashill played Frodo in the Lifeline Theatre production of The Two Towers in 1999.

==Names==
* Frodo Baggins - ''fród'' means "wise by experience" in [[Old English]]. Baggins may have been a reference to [[Bag End]] or may come from "bagging" which means "eating between meals" in northern England.
* [[Ring-bearer]] - he bore [[the One Ring]] to [[Mount Doom]].
* [[Elf-friend]] - given to him by [[Gildor Inglorion]].
* [[Mr. Underhill]] - used during his stay in the [[Prancing Pony]] to conceal his identity.
* [[Halfling]] - a name used for him from [[Boromir]]'s dream.
* [[Master]] - given to Frodo by both [[Samwise Gamgee]] as Sam was his gardener, and [[Gollum]], as Frodo was the [[Master of the Precious]].
* Nine-fingered Frodo - given to Frodo after Gollum bit off his finger.
* Frodo of the Nine Fingers - given to Frodo after Gollum bit off his finger.
* Deputy Mayor of Michel Delving - he was the Deputy from November 3019 through Mid-Year's Day in 3020
* Bronwe athan Harthad - a name given to Frodo by Gandalf in an early version of [[The Lord of the Rings]], revealed in [[The History of Middle-earth]].
* [[Daur]] - comes from "taur" which translates to "noble" and was given to Frodo at the [[Field of Cormallen]].
* [[Iorhael]] - the [[Sindarin]] name for Frodo which comes from [[ior]] meaning "old" and [[hael]] meaning "wise,"
* [[Maura Labingi]] - the Hobbit name for Frodo.
* [[Bingo Baggins]] - Frodo's name in the early drafts of [[The Lord of the Rings]].

==The Line of Frodo==

<code>
[[Balbo Baggins]] = [[Berylla Boffin]]
|
------------------------
| |
[[Mungo Baggins|Mungo]] Largo [[Baggins Family|Baggins]] = [[Tanta Hornblower]]
(grandfather of Bilbo) |
[[Fosco Baggins|Fosco]] = [[Ruby Bolger]]
|
--------------------------------------------
| | |
[[Dora Baggins|Dora]] [[Drogo Baggins|Drogo]] = Primula Brandybuck [[Dudo Baggins|Dudo]]
| |
'''Frodo''' [[Daisy Baggins|Daisy]] = [[Griffo Boffin]]
</code>

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Frodo Baggins|Images of Frodo Baggins]]
* [[Timeline of Frodo Baggins]]

{{fellowship}}

[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Baggins]]
[[Category:Ring-bearers]]
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]

[[de:Frodo Beutlin]]

Samwise Gamgee

2007-10-05T15:27:14Z

Sinthoras: german interwiki

{{hobbit
| image=[[Image:Peter Jackson's Samwise Gamgee.jpg|250px]]
| name=Samwise Gamgee
| othernames=
| birth=April 6, [[Third Age 2980|T.A. 2980]]
| death=Unknown, after [[Fourth Age 61]]
| parentage=[[Hamfast Gamgee]] and [[Bell Goodchild]]
| location=[[the Shire]]
| gender=Male
| hair=
|}}
'''Samwise Gamgee''' ([[Third Age]] April 6, 2983 — [[Fourth Age]] 61; [[Shire Reckoning]]: 1383 — 1482; 99 years old when he sailed into the [[West]]) was [[Frodo Baggins]]' servant and the only original member of the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] to remain with him till the very end of the journey to [[Mount Doom]].

== History ==
A gardener by trade, Sam seemed to be a simple [[Hobbit]] of plain speech. However, his love for [[Elves]], his gift for poetry, and his belief that the world contains greater wonders than most hobbits are aware of (all nurtured by his tutor [[Bilbo Baggins]]) set him apart from the beginning. It was Sam who first introduced the theme of the Elves' sailing from [[Middle-earth]], a subtle foreshadowing of Bilbo and Frodo's final journey across the Sea. He lived with his father, Hamfast Gamgee, better known as "[[The Gaffer]]", on [[Bagshot Row]] in the [[Shire]], close to [[Bag End]]. Sam's mother was [[Bell Goodchild]]; he had five siblings: [[Hamson Gamgee|Hamson]], [[Halfred Gamgee|Halfred]], [[Daisy Gamgee|Daisy]], [[May Gamgee|May]], and [[Marigold Gamgee|Marigold]].

As "punishment" for eavesdropping on [[Gandalf]]'s conversation with [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] regarding the dangers of the [[One Ring]], Sam was made Frodo's first companion on his journey to [[Rivendell]] in the beginning of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. Sam saved Frodo's life more than once during the quest to destroy the Ring, and he accompanied him all the way to [[Mount Doom]].

After [[Shelob]] attacked and seemingly killed Frodo, Sam took the Ring, intending to complete the quest. Because he held the Ring for a time, he is considered one of the [[Ring-bearers]].

After the [[War of the Ring]], he married [[Rose Cotton|Rose "Rosie" Cotton]] back in the Shire. They had thirteen children: [[Elanor Gardner|Elanor the Fair]], [[Frodo Gardner|Frodo]], [[Rose Gardner|Rose]], [[Merry Gardner|Merry]], [[Pippin Gardner|Pippin]], [[Goldilocks Gardner|Goldilocks]], [[Hamfast Gardner|Hamfast]], [[Daisy Gardner|Daisy]], [[Primrose Gardner|Primrose]], [[Bilbo Gardner|Bilbo]], [[Ruby Gardner|Ruby]], [[Robin Gardner|Robin]], and [[Tolman Gardner|Tolman]]. After [[Will Whitfoot]] resigned his post as [[Mayor of Michel Delving]] (the largest town in the Shire and the "unofficial capital"), in Fourth Age 7, Sam was elected Mayor of the Shire for seven consecutive 7-year terms.

After his wife died in Fourth Age 61, Sam entrusted the [[Red Book of Westmarch|Red Book]] to Elanor and left Middle-earth to sail across the Sea and be reunited with Frodo in the [[Undying Lands]], (though it should be noted that as they were both born mortals, they would still eventually die a mortal death).

== Name ==
[[J.R.R. Tolkien]] took the name from ''Gamgee Tissue'', a surgical dressing invented by a 19th century [[Birmingham]] surgeon called Joseph Sampson Gamgee. "Gamgee" became the colloquial name in Birmingham for cotton wool. Here, Tolkien describes why he had chosen that name for his character:
{{quote|The choice of Gamgee was primarily directed by alliteration; but I did not invent it. It was caught out of childhood memory, as a comic word or name. It was in fact the name when I was small (in Birmingham) for 'cotton-wool'. (Hence the association of the Gamgees with the Cottons.) I knew nothing of its origin.|''[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]''}}

It is possible that Tolkien may have subconsciously recalled Dr. Gamgee (who died in 1886 but is commemorated by a plaque at the Birmingham Medical Institute, only yards from Tolkien's childhood home) but he claimed to be genuinely surprised when, in March 1956, he received a letter from one Sam Gamgee, who had heard that his name was in ''The Lord of the Rings'' but had not read the book. Tolkien replied on March 18:
{{quote|Dear Mr. Gamgee,It was very kind of you to write. You can imagine my astonishment when I saw your signature! I can only say, for your comfort, I hope, that the 'Sam Gamgee' of my story is a most heroic character, now widely beloved by many readers, even though his origins are rustic. So that perhaps you will not be displeased at the coincidence of the name of this imaginary character of supposedly many centuries ago being the same as yours.|''[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]''}}

He proceeded to send Mr Gamgee a signed copy of all three volumes of the book. However, the incident sparked a nagging worry in Tolkien's mind, as he recorded in his journal:
{{quote|For some time I lived in fear of receiving a letter signed 'S. Gollum'. That would have been more difficult to deal with.|''[[J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography]]''}}

In [[Appendix F]] of ''The Lord of the Rings'', it is mentioned that the [[Westron]] form of Sam's name is '''Banazîr Galbasi''' (''also spelled Galpsi''). ''Banazîr'' comes from elements meaning "halfwise" or "simple". ''Galbasi'' comes from the name of the village ''Galabas''. The name ''Galabas'' uses the elements ''galab-'', meaning "game", and ''bas-'', corresponding somewhat to "-wich" or "-wick". Tolkien's English translation, ''Samwís Gamwich'', could have come to ''Samwise Gamgee'' in modern English.

The [[Sindarin]] version of Samwise is '''Perhael'''.

== Portrayal in Adaptations ==
[[Image:Rankin-Bass' Samwise Gamgee.jpg|thumb|left|Samwise Gamgee as portrayed in [[Rankin/Bass' The Return of the King]]]]
In [[Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings]], released in 1978, [[Michael Scholes]] was the voice of Sam. [[Roddy McDowall]] voiced the character in the 1980 animated short of ''[[Rankin/Bass' The Return of the King]]''.

In the 1981 BBC radio [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|serial of ''The Lord of the Rings'']], Sam is played by [[William Nighy]].

In ''[[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]]'', Sam is played by [[Sean Astin]]. It is not clear whether Astin had heard Nighy's radio performance, but both actors bring very similar characterisations and accents to the role.

== Commentary ==
Sam Gamgee is by many regarded as the "true hero" of Tolkien's story. Tolkien himself expressed this view in one of his letters: Sam is referred to as the "chief hero", and special emphasis is placed on Sam's "rustic love" for Rosie.1 The quest to destroy the Ring only succeeds because of Sam, who repeatedly saves Frodo from disaster (such as rescuing him at [[Cirith Ungol]] and carrying him up [[Mount Doom]]). He was one of three Ring-bearers strong enough to surrender the Ring voluntarily.

The relationship between Frodo and Sam is, in many respects, at the center of ''The Lord of the Rings''. To the modern reader, it seems archaic, as it is extremely class-oriented. Sam's humbleness and "plain speaking" is frequently emphasised in contrast to Frodo's "gentility", and he often shows deference to Frodo, calling him "Mister Frodo" or "Master". At the same time, a strong bond of love and trust grows between them, portrayed most poignantly during the events of Cirith Ungol, where Sam vows to return to his (apparently) dead master, to be reunited with Frodo in death.

[[Tolkienists]] regard Sam as Frodo's ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_%28army%29 batman]''. In the British Army, a batman was an orderly who acted as the personal servant of an officer. It was a role with which Tolkien (who served as an Army officer in the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I First World War]) would have been extremely familiar. Sam undertakes all of the typical roles of a batman — he runs errands for Frodo, he cooks, he transports him (or at least carries him), and he carries his luggage. Tolkien confirmed this interpretation when he wrote in a private letter that:
{{quote|My Sam Gamgee is indeed a reflexion of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognized as so far superior to myself|''[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]''}}

Compare to the relation between [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote Don Quixote] and his squire [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sancho_Panza Sancho Panza], and the gradual "Quixotization" of Sancho.

== Notes ==
# In the long summary-letter sent to [[Milton Waldman]], published in ''[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]'' as #131.

{{fellowship}}

[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Hobbits]]
[[Category:Gamgee]]
[[Category:Ring-bearers]]
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]

[[de:Samweis Gamdschie]]

User talk:Hyarion

2007-10-05T15:20:07Z

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* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 1|2005]]
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 2|2006]]
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== Spam ==

Hey Hyarion,
I have found a problem in copying and pasting.

I was copying a paragraph on the Dwarves of the Iron Hills article and it brought up a questionaire instead of my paste. So I thought I would let you know of that and see if you could fix it.

Your wiking friend --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 01:09, 21 February 2007 (EST)

:Hm, just to make sure I'm following; instead of pasting the text you had copied it pasted some questionnaire? Unfortunately (or fortunately) there is no way for any kind of spam to get into TG that way, my only guess is you accidently had something else copied during or after you attempted to copy the text. Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but I can assure you it's not related to TG. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:30, 21 February 2007 (EST)

I thunk your right. My brother gets those off the web and sends them to his friends so he may be the culprate. Thanks --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 13:02, 21 February 2007 (EST)

== Simpson's Spoof ==

I saw that the other night and I knew that it was going to be put up, awesome! One little problem, not really important, it was not UPS they were waging war with, it was a fictional group called the American Shipping Service, or A.S.S.(not to be confused with the human ass). I'm sure you knew that, I'm just splitting hairs. --[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 15:13, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:Ya I liked it too :) I was going to put American Shipping Service but figured UPS was more simple and to the point. Do you think having an article on The Simpsons here with all the references to Tolkien/Lord of the Rings would be going too far? If I can find more references I think it may be worth it. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:20, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:Dude, that was an awesome clip! --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 19:54, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

:I think any show like that, Family Guy, Simpsons, Futurama, etc. should have an article. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but there was a sitcom on Fox called That '70s Show, and the sole reason I watched week after week was for the Star Wars references. Its not going to far at all, any reference Tolkien's masterpiece deserves a place on Tolkien Gateway, in my opinion.Info wise, I can help with that, but I'll leave the uploading of video to more experienced editors.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 23:38, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

::I've gone ahead and created an article for [[The Simpsons]], embedding the YouTube videos is easy, there's also a tag for Google Video: <nowiki><googlevideo>8119893978710705002</googlevideo></nowiki>. Uploading our own video isn't quite complete yet, but you can see it in action [[Forum:Video_Player|here]]. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 00:13, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

==Recent Vandalism==

I believe you missed the vandalism on the article [[Dragons]]. I can't easily revert edits, and I'm not sure if that's a privelige with administrators where you can just press a button and it is reverted or what. Anyway, how do these vandals work, deleting all beyond a certain point? They aren't all different people, are they? --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 17:05, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

:I hadn't missed it, just had yet to get to it :) I've been busy in the chat giving away all the prizes and chatting with all the guest speakers, where you should be! Admins have a revert button, yes, but it's pretty simple for a regular user to revert as well, just click the history tab, click the link directly before the vandalism happened, and then click edit, save. The only reason these bots are getting through the filter is because they aren't adding external links so it's hard to catch them. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:09, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

== Cluttered Edain pages ==

Bit of a newbie suggestion concerning a merger but i've checked the Wiki 'how to' article and it doesnt cover it. There's an awful lot of pages in the Edain category which deal with much the same thing, pages like [[Three Houses of the Edain]]; [[House of Beor]]; [[First House of the Edain]]; [[People of Hador]] and many others, both to do with specific houses, characters after whom houses are named, and various specific terms (as in the case of some of the above). I would suggest some serious merging of all of these articles to form a more complete and coherent resource of imformation. Is that something i can do myself and simply havnt found out how or does it take more 'powers' to mark something up for merging? Dr Death

:You hit the nail on the head with adding the merge notices, although it might be easier if you simply add <nowiki>{{merge|Title of article}}</nowiki> this grabs what is located at Template:Merge and includes it automatically while inserting the variable. I think now we just need to figure out which title is the most common and place the article there. Keep up the great work! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:59, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

>> I beleive that the most obvious terms of use (and thus the name page titles) should be the 'House of...Beor/Haleth/Hador', though there is a strong case for the House of Haleth to be called the Haladin. The [[Three Houses of the Edain]] page should simply be a portion of the [[Edain]] page and it's that which i will endeavour to do when i have the time.

== Change to Main Page ==

Hello Hyarion!
Just wondered about adding a link to the Category index from the main page. As a new user I've found catergory list in the special pages great, but there doesn't seem to be a link on the main page. Findegil

:I think that's a good idea and if you like that page you might also like [[Index of categories]]. It has to be updated manually so it's missing a lot but hopefully we'll be able to create a nice tree-like structure for even easier navigation. I'll try and find a spot for it down by the A-Z list or something. Oh and you can sign your comments by clicking the signature button second from the right just above this textbox. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 12:11, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

Thanks --[[User:Findegil|Findegil]] 13:45, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

==Chat isn't working for me==

Well, I'm back, as you've probably noticed. I was hoping to communicate with you on Chat, but for the past three days I haven't been able to access it through the java links provided. My browser keeps on saying "page not found", etc. I'm not sure if it's my problem or that of the Chat itself. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 11:38, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

:By the way, was the issue of redirects ever cleared up? Several editors are really leaping at the chance to redirect a lot of pages. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 11:41, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

::Just cleaning up, Narfil. I apologise if i seem to be taking a liberty but i'm using my best judgement in every redirect i make. [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 12:46, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

::Welcome back Narfil! The Java clients will be down for a while, I'll try and get them working this weekend, but your best bet is to get a real IRC client like [http://www.silverex.org/download/ XChat] and connect to irc.tolkiengateway.net. I don't think we've come to a conclusion regarding redirects, but for now we should probably lay off converting anything into redirects as right now I think those who oppose yours and my views don't fully see the whole dictionary aspect and how much redirection would hurt that goal. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 13:37, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

:::I'm not sure if you saw what I posted at the forum, but in short I said that I believed that it should only be converted into a redirect if it contains no more information that "this was another name for", etc. Of course, it might be an interesting idea if for such things (minor names) we could have references on that page to where that particular name was used. Might be good if we could decide on a standard version of LotR/Sil/HoME, so we could add page numbers. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 14:28, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

::::Ya I saw what you posted and I entirely agree. Everything about Gandalf should all be in the Gandalf article, however we can expand on his titles, when they were used, how they were derived, (by Tolkien as well as in-universe), etc. in Mithrandir, Olorin, etc. References is an issue I hope to tackle this summer, I'd like everything to be based on paragraph seeing as this wouldn't change. And I'll create a website which will allow people to easily lookup and convert the paragraphs into their respected page numbers and visa versa. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:57, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

::: Well to add a face to 'those who...' i think it's worth pointing out that even dictionaries have 'see: X' under some entries, redirection just cuts out the middleman. While i whole heartedly agree that full exploration should be given to every name and its entymology (for gods sake dont get me wrong on that) i still beleive that it should be done under a central article to what it applies so as to fascilitate a greater resource of information regarding the subject. If you really want to get pedantic wikis are online *encyclopedias* rather than dictionaries and so should provide the greatest and most comprehensive amount of information without having to piddle about with technicalities. I say this as much from the standpoint of a user as an editor. By all means have sections within a main article and redirect to those sections but there are too many technicalities (a recent new page for '*The* War of Wrath' rather than just 'War of Wrath' prooves my point adequately as to how easily people can get mixed up). [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 08:54, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

:::: And I can see the benefit to that which is why I'm not 100% decided on the issue either. However let us take [[Aragorn]] for example, where would the history behind the name be located at, Aragorn I or Aragorn II? Same goes for [[Boromir]], [[Minas Tirith]], and many more articles. Instead of having to replicate the information on the name on each article, Aragorn is a nice example of how the definition could be at the disambiguation article which links to articles with that name.
::::When we get more editors we will be able to vote on matters like this, it is just hard now with so few as we don't want to be swayed in the wrong direction by a one/two votes, which is why I guess we'll just have to focus on other matters until we all agree on something. Thanks for all your input and help by the way!
::::Looking back, I think we both have the same idea, but the issue is which article is the "central article". Wikipedia, (and I think yourself?) would vote for Aragorn since it is the most popular and obvious. I tend to sway towards staying neutral and treating even the minor characters with equality, as one might say that just because Tolkien's stories focused more one one character, doesn't make them more important. This is obviously going to force the majority of users to make an extra click, but I'm just a perfectionist like that :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:35, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

::::: In the case of disambiguation pages i am in utter and complete agreement with you. Considering that Tolkien Gateway is more specialist than wikipedia we should treat all subjects with identical names with complete equality (so long as we make it clear which is which) and if we include a translation of the name there for both cases then so much the better, since that page does have to exist. In those cases it may be worth giving a 'quick translation' though in the character box if someone does go specific (so you dont have to go to [[Aragorn]] if you just want to know out of interest what [[Aragorn II]]'s name translates as).
::::: The situations i am opposed to though are those when a name or term for any subject (which does tend to be characters but others suffer as well) which specifically refers to that one subject and has no context outside it (Mithrandir only ever refers to Gandalf in the writings of Tolkien) is given a whole page all to itself just because strictly speaking it could (rather than does) refer to something else (such as the case of Mithrandir- there may be another referred to as 'Grey Pilgrim' out there but Tolkien never mentioned them). In those cases i beleive that entymology should be given to every such term but in a section the article of the sole subject it refers to rather than as an independant page.
::::: In the case of titles or tags which could refer to multiple things (say [[The Nine]], [[King under the Mountain]] etc. I beleive that they should be disambiguation pages with a little information on the term itself (much like occurs in the case of two characters called the same thing ([[Aragorn]] using the common example).)
::::: I beleive our notions are how to do things are closer than you think. The matter just seems to have been overlooked (that isnt meant as an insult, just a comment). However i'm going to make it my business to really sort it out so as to provide the clearest possible way to find information on this site. [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 08:12, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

::::::A quick translation wouldn't be a bad idea in the infobox, though I do think we'll run into an issue when there is a translation multiple languages, such as a Mannish word has a translation in Black Speech, Quenya, Sindarin, etc. On all of the articles we are definitely trying to add Etymology sections however, which should also prove fairly quick in providing the meaning and history behind a name (both in-Arda and out-of-Arda).

::::::I'm glad we both agree on the disambig articles, and I can definitely see the benefit for an article such as Mithrandir to be a redirect. But here is the conflict: Articles such as those found in [[:Category:Quenya_words]]. If we agree that these articles of Quenya words are worth having, then we can deduce that the difference between an article such as [[Astar]] and [[Mithrandir]] is that Mithrandir is attributed to someone/something. To me that is like giving less importance to a "more important" article. I guess I'm trying to just look at it from the perspective of a language expert using the wiki as a dictionary reference. Heh, sorry, I can be rather stubborn at times :) Thanks for bringing this up and hopefully we can set a standard for it as a lot of the wiki is not as standardized as I would like. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 09:34, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

::::::: Well i mentioned briefly on the forum the difference between words in their pure form and in the form found in names. In names which usually consist of forms of at least two words of a different language. For example [[Gondor]] in its purest form would be Gondhdôr but is mutated to a far simpler form. I make no claim to be a linguistic expert but considering pretty much all names in middle earth whether they apply to a person or place are rendered into some form of elvish rather than 'The Queen's English' to provide two entries for each: one for the word and another for what it refers to, seems to be all too much of a muchness (and would only be balanced by providing redirects to the subject matter for the word's translation in english). Far better to present the component words in their purest forms on their own page and provide the examples of use there while providing a 'quick translation' on the page of what the hybrid words refer to (naturally linking to its componant parts). To me this sounds only like good sense, but i may be wrong. What do you think? [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 10:50, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

::::::::I've gone ahead and thrown together a crude example at [[Mithrandir]]. A lot more could still be added to this article, and it just seems like we would be cramming a lot of information into Gandalf if we had to have similar sections for every single name Gandalf had. Anyway, I think both of us have our own, valid, opinions on the matter and we might as well just wait for a few more editors to voice their opinion until we can get a good majority before placing a final vote. Thanks for your input! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:49, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

::::::::: Yes, fair enoughski. Your article on Mithrandir is certainly a preferable format to what was there whem i redirected it to Gandalf but i cant help but feel it could have been summed up in a single short paragraph. Just to cobble together an example-

'''Mithrandir''' (pronounced "Meethra'ndeerr") [[Sindarin]] for 'Grey-Pilgrim/Wanderer' (Olorin in [[Quenya]]: see above/below) used widely among the [[Elves]][[#Notes|1]]
, [[Gondorians]][[#Notes|2]] and [[Dúnedain]][[#Notes|3]]

== Notes ==
:1."Mithrandir, Mithrandir sang the Elves, O Pilgrim Grey! For so they loved to call him."
– [[The Fellowship of the Ring]], [[The Mirror of Galadriel]]
:2. "May you bring good councel to Denethor in his need, and to us all, Mithrandir!' [[Ingold]] cried."
- [[The Return of the King]], [[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]
:3. "Dark indeed is the hour,' said the old man, 'and at such times you are wont to come Mithrandir."
- [[The Return of the King]], [[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]

::::::::: So as you can see while the coding is pretty fiendish it can be done. But as you say, the deciding vote will be cast when there are more voters to make it. Until then we'll just have to tread carefully around each others edits :). [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 13:21, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

::::::::::I would agree my example was rather stretched out and yours flows much better. This brings up yet another issue, we need a good template for our Elvish word articles, pronunciation mp3 link in the corner, image of the word in [[Tengwar]], standard headers/sections/etc. I think this discussion could go on forever so I better stop as we both have made some good points, I think in a few more months we should be able to make a final decision as TG grows. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:19, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

== The Hobbit Screenplay ==

I'm just stopping by to ask about [[the Hobbit screenplay]], I'm contributing to it. First, I would want to ask you, is it still active? Second, I want to ask you, can you read my additions and make suggestions on the thing I just wrote. Third, when the time comes, give the script to Peter Jackson or whatever responsible director and he/she and his/her colleague(s) will to whatever they want to it. =)

The book is really cool in my opinion, and I don't want some children's movie like Eragon or something like the 1980's adaption released in honor of this great book. =)

Hope it isn't that much to ask! =)

--[[User:Iluvatar|Iluvatar]] 21:53, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

:I wouldn't say it is extremely active, but it just takes one person to get it started again and more people will join in, I'll start working on it as well though I don't have much experience with screenplays. Not many people know about it so we'll have to spread the word a bit. So far your additions look great, very vivid. I definitely think it would be a good idea to hand the script over to a studio/director, even if just for inspiration. Keep up the great work! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:03, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

== Year pages ==
A question for you, Mr. H-- I have noticed that there are alot of red links for pages for important years, like III 3019, for instance. Is there an organized plan to create these pages? And what structure or format should be used? --[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 16:15, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

:Hey there, right now the best place for year pages is to look at [[Timeline]]. I went through and made articles for most of the years that were mentioned in the [[Appendices]] but haven't got around to verifying all the other information, as the Timeline is not 100% accurate. I would eventually like to get a source for all the years so we can make sure not to make any mistakes. I do want to work on a standard layout for all the years, definitely with some templates and a way to navigate between the years but I haven't settled on anything. If you want to start on the articles though feel free to, I think we settled on a ''Fourth Age 1000'' naming scheme. Just try to verify that the information is correct if you can, and make sure the Timeline links to it. Thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:25, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

== Additional Book Source ==

Just curious....how difficult would it be to add another (non-commercial) site to the Book Sources page?--[[User:Fleela|fleela]] 13:11, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

:Hm, not sure I know what you mean by the Book Sources page. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 13:21, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

::[[Special:Booksources]]--[[User:Fleela|fleela]] 13:28, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

:::Ah, sorry, I forgot about that. Ya, as long as the book can be accessed by just inserting the ISBN into the URL. Another thing I'd like to do is add more variables to the infobox so we can add other stores there if they are cheaper than Amazon. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 13:39, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

::::I'd love it if you could add [http://www.librarything.com LibraryThing] as a source. The link looks like "http://www.librarything.com/isbn/0618134700" You can also take a look at their huge list of book source links at http://www.librarything.com/bookservices.php --[[User:Fleela|fleela]] 13:53, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

:::::Added. :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:38, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

::::::Great, thanks! --[[User:Fleela|fleela]] 14:54, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

== Multiple account mess ==

Hi. I'm also [[User:Rog]] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Uthanc Wikipedia's Uthanc]. I was planning to use the latter here as well, so I created [[User:Uthanc]] and was going to make all my Rog links redirect to Uthanc, but then [[User:Rog]] is still online even when I'm logged in as Uthanc. What should I do? [[User:Uthanc|Uthanc]] 21:10, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

:Hey there Uthanc! I watch a lot of your Tolkien edits over on Wikipedia, nice to have you around. Hm, not sure I follow regarding Rog being online when you're logged in as Uthanc. Do you mean on the main page? Maybe it's just cached. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:05, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

== General comments ==

#The Mediawiki software could use updating. Compare Wikipedia's "Editing..." pages to ours.
#Ideally, many articles should eventually be rewritten from scratch in order to avoid being Wikipedia forks/clones (daunting!) in the same way that all Tolkien guidebooks/sites are (were) written differently. I don't want to "pirate" Wikipedia for articles here, so the most we can do is to borrow references.
#I believe some naming conventions are unwieldy. For example, [[Faramir]] leads to a disambiguation page between [[Faramir (son of Denethor II)]], [[Faramir son of Ondoher]] and [[Faramir Took I]] (the First?!). In fairness, that's what Wookieepedia does - type Luke and you won't go to that Skywalker immediately. And that makes this wiki different from Wikipedia... [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]] instead of [[The Lord of the Rings film trilogy]]? Well, redirects can make the redlink go to the other link. Also, parentheses or no parentheses in "son of"?
#Apparently here everything is canon... we just need to point out when Tolkien wrote it, and whether it has been superseded. Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Middle-earth canon|was rewritten]] and no longer declares such-and-such to be canon. How about a "definitely non-canon" category and template for derivative stuff like the movies and its merchandise? [[User:Uthanc|Uthanc]] 21:42, 19 June 2007 (EDT)
##Edit: we do have [[Template:Noncanon]] and [[Template:Fanon]]
#It's nice to see in-universe style here, without complaints or like-minded tags. [[User:Uthanc|Uthanc]] 21:45, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

:Some responses to a few of your comments I know the answer to: the Wikipedia articles were copy-pasted in years ago as placeholders. We encourage rewrites; they are still in progress. Much of what you find here (I believe) is actually based off of Wookieepedia. In general we do have paretheses as a rule. Again, we only have about four or five regular, dedicated editors. It takes a long time with that few to rewrite and standardize 5000+ articles. I hope that helps. Hyarion should be able to give you a fuller response. I think he's in the process of upgrading Mediawiki right now. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 21:55, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

# The software was lagging behind as further upgrades require PHP5, but this summer we plan on upgrading the server along with MediaWiki, which means we'll finally be able to install the extensions we've had our eyes on. (TengTex for one)
# We've been slowly rewriting the articles from scratch and this is definitely something on the top of our to-do list. Back when all the main articles had all been created we stopped using anything from Wikipedia.
# I'm at a loss as to Faramir Took '''I''' as well...whoever created that article obviously wasn't paying attention *whistles* I think in the beginning we tended to use no-parentheses as I had the idea that we could use the title in the text and we wouldn't have to use the alternative linking method (<nowiki>[[title|text]]</nowiki>) however I don't think anyone would actually say "Faramir son of Ondoher" in an article, so the benefit isn't really there. I'm neutral on the standard and maybe this is something we can have a vote on in the near future now that we have almost enough people to vote.
# Canon is definitely a big issue because it isn't black and white, I think the best approach is leave the choice up to the viewer. I'd be open to seeing some kind of scale, like a 5 meaning it is definitely canon, 3/4 if it's iffy, 0 if a canon subject replaced it, etc.
# I agree, I like the idea that we are essentially writing the Red Book and are looking back on the past.
:::Thanks for your comments, always nice to have fresh eyes around. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:29, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

==Anonymous Vandalism==

Hyarion, because this vandalism is getting out of hand, I would suggest that for the time being all anonymous users must do a math problem to edit. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 08:14, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

== Canon or not? ==

I have found two more Dwarves to put in the wiki but I don't know if they're canon. Could someone who knows the HoME tell me if they are before I make them pages? Their names are Bodruith and Fangluin.
Also Tom Bombadil was called Forn by the Dwarves but it cannot be made into an page because it's unde the Tom bombadil page. Can this be made into its own page too? Thanks,--[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 03:05, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

:Bodruith and Fangluin come from the [[Book of Lost Tales II]]. Both are uncanonical, but we should have a pages for them. Bodruith was the Lord of Belegost, and Fangluin was an elderly dwarf who counseled against returning [[Tinwelint]] ([[Thingol]])'s loan. Yes, we can make pages for [[Forn]] as well. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 15:23, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Alright thanks for clarifying that Narfil I will get right to it.--[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 15:58, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

== [[:Category: Cosmology]] ==

I've added a few articles to the as yet uncreated [[:Category: Cosmology]]. I'm not sure if a mere mortal like myself can create a category or if like deletion it's a mod only gig. If it is a mod only gig then could you please create said category since there are a lot of 'time and space' subjects that need a home. [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 16:01, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

:You're welcome to create categories. They can always be removed (unlike deletions which are permanent). Great idea for a category, by the way. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 16:03, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

== Categories ==

Over my absence the Categories have became very confusing and complicated. Why was it changed? I thought the way it was going was fine.--[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 16:05, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

:Hmm. . . I was the primary categorizer. . . what do you think has changed, and why did it make it complicated? --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 16:26, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

::Oh I don't know just a bunch more than I am used to. It just is a little confusing, but I'll get used to it no biggy. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 18:04, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

:::Based on your recent edits, I am guessing you refer to the locations categories. Basically, the locations are now categorized by type and location. For instance, [[Brithombar]] would be placed [[:Category:Elven Cities|Elven Cities]], [[:Category:Cities in Beleriand|Cities in Beleriand]], and [[:Category:Falas|Falas]]. If you have any other questions, I guess you can ask me. If you have any problems with the system feel free to say so. I did it without bothering to take a vote or anything like that. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 20:17, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

It's alright. Your categories help organize things better. No problem mate. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 20:48, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

== Vandalism! ==

We need to do something drastic to stop these vandals! It's getting out of hand! --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 20:46, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

:Twenty-two today, by my count. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 21:01, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

Call me naive but looking at the changes they keep implementing, they dont actually 'vandalise' the pages as such (Putting gibberish up) but rather they seem to keep compressing the information, kicking it down to an Encyclopedia of Arda type minimalism. One criticism i have heard of this type of site is that people do tend to waffle on subtley casting their own 'spin' on the subject matter. While i personally dont hold this view and think that there's every chance this is plain vandalism it might be worth reviewing articles to see if they could be trimmed into shape and pose the question if any of them show noticable bias (such as a case i corrected where it mentioned Glaurung was 'far more cunning' (inprecise quote) than Morgoth's other servants which isnt sourced anywhere.) [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 05:00, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

:These are bots, which mean they go through articles and remove everything after a certain point (usually something like the first semicolon). They aren't human and have nothing to do with the article length (notice how forums are affected). Actually, I believe that quote about Glaurung could be sourced, though I didn't put it up. I believe it does say somewhere that he was far more cunning. . . but I'd have to find that. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 07:30, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

:I think one of the problems with sourcing (which is a whole other topic) is that we don't really have a steady working reference template. I believe the update Hyarion's going to get during the summer has that. I'm looking forward to it. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 08:07, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

:Nevermind, I was wrong. I just found a reference template, though perhaps it isn't the best possible. We ought to use it more. I wonder if I'm answering for Hyarion too much. . . --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 14:27, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

== Need Some Opinions ==

I'm wanting to create a page about the War between Arnor and Angmar but I need a good name. Any suggestions would be great. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 13:26, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

:Arnor-Angmar Wars would be my first thought. I'll try and think some more on that subject. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 13:45, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

Well there's a number of descriptive terms i've heard used for the period. These include "The Fall of Arnor"; "The Ruin of Arnor"; "The Fall of the North-Kingdom". Those however do seem to be quite 'evocative' which may not be the desired effect for an article. Something simpler while still avoiding simply "Arnor vrs Angmar" format might be "The War with Angmar" since Arnor wasnt the only combatant in those struggles and Angmar only lasted for the length of the war. [[User:Dr Death|Dr Death]] 13:53, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

== TolkienGateway/Ardapedia ==

Hello Hyarion, thanks for your welcome and help. I am a fan of TolkienGateway too and always looking for good background-information to improve our Ardapedia here :) You said you'd like to cooperate with us and I suppose that's a great idea. I'm thinking about a direct connection using Interwiki-Links, like they do it on Wikipedia. It is only an idea so far, but I think it would not only expand the amount of information in our projects, but also would add to the credits for both TolkienGateway and Ardapedia. What do you think about that so far, and do you think is that worth discussing it? best regards [[User:Sinthoras|Sinthoras]]

:Hello Sinthoras, yes that is an idea I've had in mind as well. We're also good friends with the [http://kontu.info/wiki/Etusivu Finnish wiki] who I bet would be interested in joining as well. I want to make some changes to the size of our links on the left, but once I do that I'll configure the database to link to you guys whenever the tag is added to an article. We might need some help finding the correct translation for some of the names however, articles like Gandalf are easy, but for instance you don't have an article named "Elves" and I don't think any current TG members know much German :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:29, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

::I've gone ahead and set it all up and you can see the interwiki links functioning at [[Gandalf]]. I'll try to add as many links as I can, to keep it standardized I think it will be best to insert <nowiki>[[de:Article Name]]</nowiki> below the Category links, leaving a space between them, that's how Wikipedia does it at least. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:56, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

:::[[Elves]] is easy to do ;-) Though not German myself, I can help out here now and then, as I can read German fairly well. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 10:34, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

wow :] you already took the next steps, great! For us it isn't very hard to find the correct english articles, cause we often deal with the original names in our articles too and I'm sure we can help you out if you need the right german names ;). It will take us a short while to fix the Interwiki-Links on the Ardapedia-system. Looking forward --[[User:Sinthoras|Sinthoras]] 11:20, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

Shelob

2007-10-05T15:11:20Z

Sinthoras: interwiki-test de :)

'''Shelob''' was a child of [[Ungoliant]], a Giant Spider-like creature, she appears at the end of the second volume of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', where her attack leads to [[Sam Gamgee]]'s key decision to take over the quest to destroy the [[One Ring]].
{{quote|There age-long she had dwelt, an evil thing in spider-form, even such as once of old had lived in the Land of the Elves in the West that is now under the Sea, such as Beren fought in the Mountains of Terror in Doriath, and so came to Lúthien upon the green sward amid the hemlocks in the moonlight long ago. How Shelob came there, flying from ruin, no tale tells, for out of the Dark Years few tales have come. But still she was there, who was there before Sauron, and before the first stone of Barad-dûr; and she served none but herself, drinking the blood of Elves and Men, bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadows; for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness. Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Dúath to the eastern hills, to Dol Guldur and the fastnesses of Mirkwood. But none could rival her, Shelob the Great, last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world.|[[The Lord of the Rings]], [[Shelob's Lair]]}}

==Shelob in ''The Lord of the Rings''==
[[Image:John Howe - Sam and Shelob.jpg|right|thumb|300px|[[Sam]] battles ''Shelob'' by [[John Howe]]]]Shelob was a huge creature in spider form, apparently the spawn of [[Ungoliant]] and some lesser spider of [[Arda]]. She dwelled high in the mountains of [[Mordor]], having established her lair there before [[Sauron]] claimed Mordor as his own. Shelob spent her early days feeding off elves and men, but as elves and men became scarce in the area, she fed upon [[orcs]]. Sauron would sometimes send her captured prisoners for whom he had no further use and amuse himself watching how she played with her prey. Even though they did not communicate, Sauron and Shelob understood each other. Shelob was like a pet to Sauron, and she served as a secure guardian of the pass of [[Cirith Ungol]] to prevent any intruders from entering the dark land.

Her lair was along the path that [[Sam Gamgee]] and [[Frodo Baggins]] took while seeking [[Mount Doom]]. Their guide, [[Gollum]] (whom the orcs of the Tower of [[Cirith Ungol]] call "Her Shelob's Sneak"), had reached some sort of understanding with her, and he led the hobbits directly into her trap.

While put off by the [[Phial of Galadriel]] in the tunnels, she intercepted them again outside and attacked Frodo, stinging him into a death-like coma. Sam managed to defeat her by letting her impale herself upon [[Sting]] when she tried to crush him under her massive body. Wounded, she fled to her lair and was never seen again.

Thinking Frodo dead, Sam took the [[One Ring]] from him and left his body behind, but discovered by listening to a party of Orcs that Shelob's venom was not intended to kill its victims but only to render them unconscious and keep their meat fresh.

==Early History and Associations==
Before moving to [[Terech Ungol]] beneath [[Cirith Ungol]], Shelob lived in [[Beleriand]], in the [[Ered Gorgoroth]].

Shelob's descendants (upon whom she would often feed) included the smaller, but still giant, spiders of Mirkwood, who captured [[Bilbo Baggins]]' Dwarf allies during the [[Quest of Erebor]].

The name ''Shelob'' is derived from "lob", an archaic English word for spider. A variation, "cob" is the derivation of the word "cobweb". It is doubtless an Anglicization of the original Westron/Sindarin word, according to the [[Translator conceit]].

==Movie Adaptation==
[[Image:Shelob's face.jpg|thumb|left|Shelob's face from [[Peter Jackson's The Return of the King]].]]
In [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]], Shelob's appearance is held over until the middle of the third movie, ''[[Peter Jackson's The Return of the King|The Return of the King]]''.

In the movie, Shelob can be seen to have a retractable venomous sting at the rear end between the spinnerets, resembling a wasp's sting. This is very much unlike real spiders which inject venom with their fangs but accurate relative to the novel. Shelob also appears to have a gaping mouth, whereas real spiders can ingest only liquid. In the book, on the other hand, "clusters" of eyes are mentioned, which may suggest compound eyes like those of insects; the Shelob in the movie does ''not'' have compound eyes, which is appropriate. A hunting spider of the family [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycosidae Lycosidae], which Shelob most closely resembles, would have two large eyes facing forward, and a few smaller ones almost hidden below. The only spiders that can reasonably be said to have "clustered" eyes (though not true compound eyes) are the daddy long-legs spiders of the family Pholcidae, but Shelob does not resemble these rather spindly and fragile spiders in other aspects of her physique.

===See also===
* [[:Category:Images of Shelob|Images of Shelob]]

[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Creatures]]

[[de:Kankra]]

User talk:Hyarion

2007-10-04T20:11:40Z

Sinthoras: TolkienGateway/Ardapedia

User talk:Ardamir

2007-09-30T17:07:33Z

Sinthoras: /* Pronounce-MP3s */

== Welcome to Tolkien Gateway! ==

Hello [[User:Ardamir|Ardamir]],

Just wanted to welcome you to [http://tolkiengateway.net Tolkien Gateway] and thank you for your editing of the [[Hobbits]] article. It's great to have someone aboard with your knowledge of the legendarium. Keep up the great work on your website and feel free to add a link to it on the [[Links]] page or on any other relevant articles. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 20:30, 9 December 2005 (EST)

== Pronounce-MP3s ==
Hello!
I just heard the mp3 on the article [[Haleth]] and wondered if you allow me to use it in the german version of Tolkien-Wiki called "Ardapedia" [[http://ardapedia.herr-der-ringe-film.de/index.php/Hauptseite]].

It would be great if you would leave me a comment right there: [http://ardapedia.herr-der-ringe-film.de/index.php/Benutzer_Diskussion:Sinthoras]

:Thx a lot! --[[User:Sinthoras|Sinthoras]] 13:07, 30 September 2007 (EDT)