Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

User talk:Ederchil

2013-12-29T23:30:37Z

Watcher at the Silver Gate: /* Idril page */ new section

{{usertalk}}

{| align="right"
| __TOC__
|}
<center>
=Archive=
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]''' 
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]''' 
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]''' 
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]''' 

=2012=
</center>


==WITN release year==
Just a little note, [[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]] is published in [[2011]]. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 13:59, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

== Secret Vice ==

Hi Ederchil! Why did you [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=A_Secret_Vice&action=historysubmit&diff=186885&oldid=186884 revert this]? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:25, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

:Couple of reasons:
* No markup.
* No sources.
* No composition.
* Poor spelling.
* POV. He begins "in a subtle fasion [sic]"? That's commentary.
:Basically, that an article requires a rewrite does not mean we can accept anything. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:40, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

::Well, I still think it was a pretty good summary (although especially suffering from a POV as you say, - but the poor spelling is easily fixed and if the POV is removed no sources would be needed as it would be only a summary). I'll have a go at editing the anonymous user's text.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:48, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

:::It was more work than I expected ;-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:26, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

== Vandalism ==

I suspect you'll likely notice [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_Five_Armies&action=historysubmit&diff=191929&oldid=190658 this] anyhow, but I wanted to leave a note just in case.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]]

:Sorry, full day of classes. Looks like Mith already has it. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:45, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

== On Tolkien ==

As far as I know, it hasn't been published yet.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:03, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

== Noel ==

IMHO, I don't think it's problematic to use Noel as a source in those cases where no other analyses of a name have appeared. Especially if we're clear about giving the reference and denoting the etymology as being a "suggestion". And if a new analysis appears, it's possible to see how olkien linguists have historically interpreted a certain word. I'd say it's a bit similar to "Portrayal in Adaptions": even if we don't think that this or that adaptation was authentic, we still include it for the sake of completeness. What do you think? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:44, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

:Normally I'd say true, but in this case, it's so obviously proven incorrect by later info that we'd best not mention it. I haven't checked the Etymologies, Elfling or PE yet for a more accurate etymology. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:51, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

==Question==

Hi I'm Vaire thanks for making my user page open for other people and a real page, and I have a question, on the user page how do you add the box on the side where you can describe yourself? You can tell me on my user page [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]

Thank you, sorry about the mistakes I made in editing [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]

I did what it said to do in the here but when I saved it just said all the things I typed, I did do it on my iPad if that makes a difference. [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]

:I have no idea what you're trying to tell me. You tried what? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:10, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

For the user info box I copied what it said on the link you gave me and filled it out and I saved it an my user page but the box did not come up it just said was I typed, but when I typed it I used my iPad, does that make I difference? [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]

:No, it went wrong because you typed the template instead of copy pasting it. Those vertical lines aren't capital I's. That's a "pipe", |. You can find it on uppercase \ on most keyboards, not sure about the iPad. I fixed it, it displays properly now. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:38, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!! And I think that I can edit know [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]

:Please don't copy from Wikipedia. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:35, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

==Years==

Thank you for telling me about adding the catagorys when creating a page about a year. [[User:Vaire|Vaire]] 16:18, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

== New signs? ==

Perhaps add £ $ € to the insert box? I have neither of these on my keyboard.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:18, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

:They're already on there. Okay, not the Dollar, but Pound and Euro are. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

== Deletion of old version of images ==

Could you delete the old versions of [[:File:Verlyn Flieger.jpg]] and [[:File:Ted Nasmith.jpg]]?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

:Yes, yes I can. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:10, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

::Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:56, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

== Reverts on my edits to Fingon and Turgon. ==

Hi there.
Recently, I made some contribution to the Etymologies of Fingon and Turgon. The original writing did not give clear meanings, and just showed a lot of IPA. I made some proper edits to them, quoting from Tokien's works, showing the roots of all the different elements within their names. however, my edits appear to have been removed since i didn't reference the facts. This is not strictly true, since I wrote all the references to my information directly in the section. I just didn't show them as footnote references.
Will you revert it? Should i add footnote references?

--[[User:Reallyfat|Reallyfat]] 17:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

:Couple of points:
:* Yes, inline notes are preferred. See [[Template:HM|here]] for all the sourcing templates.
:* You should never, ever, use the first person on a wiki. "We know..." Aargh.
:* Beginning a second paragraph with "Note that"... also a stylistic no no.
:* The entire second paragraph of Fingon is incorrect. Caun is attested Sindarin, and it would become -gon.
:So, it's not at all about sources... it's because cleaning up required too much work, and would eventually be no different from the original. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:34, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Right, thanks a lot. I will remove the second paragraph there and in Turgon., since i was not paying attention to "Caun". I wonder how I overlooked it? I was following the books all the way. Anyway, I will do that, and take care with the first person in future. Apart from that, can the translations remain up?

PS: What is wrong with saying "note that"?
--[[User:Reallyfat|Reallyfat]] 17:56, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

::"Note that" is almost without exception followed by something that is completely not worth noting. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:57, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

:::Haha, I don't buy that :) but in any case, an expression like "note that" is actually second person (imperative), which, like the first person, is unencyclopedic. An acceptable expression would be "It is worth noting/notable that..." (and no, it doesn't always precede a trivia :)) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 11:03, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Right. I will keep that in mind.
So, CAN I post my edits (with the amendments made)? I just want to putthe proper translations up, since these current ones aren't exactly correct. Plus, Sarafinwë is only from Parma Eldalamberon, It isn't even from Tolkien's works. {{unsigned|Reallyfat}}

:Parma Eldalamberon publishes works by Tolkien. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:00, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

::Where in any version of the Legendarium, the old HoMe, or any of tolkiens letters is Sarafinwë mentioned? The only source we have is Parma Eldalamberon, Parma 17. --[[User:Reallyfat|Reallyfat]] 04:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

:::Hi Reallyfat, thanks so much for your recent contributions! I think Ederchil agrees that the source is from Parma Eldalamberon, but because it originates from Tolkien's own manuscripts, it's worth noting. Obviously it's not going to be considered as [[canon]] as other things, but as long as we reference it, we can let the reader decide. Thanks again for your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 04:53, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

== practically all changes deleted?! ==

Hello, I am the individual who posted changes to the Glorfindel entry. Other than the initial speculation that he may have come back from Aman as late as after 3264 S.A.(which you or another promptly deleted), I kept my speculations to a minimum & all that was posted thereafter was on firm ground, based on that written by Prof. Tolkien or easily inferred therefrom (nothing I posted thereafter was removed for hours).
Therefore, I'm upset that someone felt the need to undo all that I added in my generousity. The text reads essentially as I found it & my time & my effort & my entry-enhancing-in-depth-understanding all wasted. None of it was in conflict with pre-existing content & merely added dimension to the entry.
Thus, due to the heavy handed way in which all my contributions were wrongfully deleted (one could have edited my text, just I as did the original), I won't be bothering in future to share my insight or wisdom in these matters & on this site.
It's patently obvious to any who have read all of Tolkien's works that there were some few other Wise left in Middle Earth (Erestor, Galdor, Gildor Inglorion & also, at least those unidentified of the Tareldar that Elrond dispatched to look for the ring party). As well, Glorfindel likely did stay & assist Cirdan in the ongoing 'evacuation' over time of the elves from Middle Earth to Aman. At LEAST as likely as him speculatively awaiting the Blue Wizards (of whom little to nothing is confirmably known), yet my firm ground additions get canned as 'speculative', while this Blue Wizard statement remains?!
Very often, less is not more ... but you have decided, so be it. Have your way, & thus less ... & hope you're happy....

:I raised other points as well. Check your talk page again. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:59, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

== Gondorian cavalry ==

What exactly is wrong with the following addition to the scanty section on the Cavalry of Gondor, that you deleted?

"However, Imrahil was not the only commander of Gondorian cavalry, as at the Battle of the Pelennor Field the horsemen were led not only by Imrahil but also by Hurin the Tall, Warden of the Keys, Forlong of Lossarnach and Hirluin of the Green Hills.<refThe Return of the King, The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, p. 121</ref The kings of Gondor evidently maintained a force of knights, as Earnur had an escort of knights when he went to answer the challenge to combat issued by the Lord of Morgul.<refThe Return of the King, Appendix A, p. 332</ref"

Is it inaccurate? Please check, you will find that it isn't.

Is it irrelevant? There is precious little in Tolkien's writings that gives any detail on Gondorian cavalry, so any addition ought to be welcome.

BTW, with reference to other assertions on the page, there is only one mention of plate armour in the whole of LOTR - that is Imrahil's vambrace (forearm protection). All representation of other plate armour is entirely unsupported by Tolkien's work. {{unsignedIP|86.8.59.24}}

:It starts with "However". The article needs work, but adding stuff starting with "however, also this" isn't the way to do it. It would be much better, not just for accuracy, but also for structure, to rewrite the entire section incorporating all available info. The wiki phrase for this is "Repair, don't respond". Because with "however", you respond to the previous section. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:09, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

==Lord of the rings translations==

Write about translations of Lord of The rings need a New topic. I dont complete yet because I still seachirng informations about that. {{unsigned|Sigurd}}

:We have a separate page on [[Translations]]. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:48, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

But I was trying to do like The Hobbit page. Where the books tranlated are separed by year of publication.{{User:Sigurd/sig}}

== Info removed from Thorin page ==

Hi, I'm new here and still trying to figure out the system. : ) You removed my edit because of "wrong method of sourcing". Were you just referring to the format? (i.e., would the following be more correct:
J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), <The Peoples of Middle-earth, "Part One. The Prologue and Appendices to The Lord of the RIngs: The Making of Appendix A (Chapter 19)" ?)
Also, I understand what you mean about it not fitting in that paragraph. Would it be better on the Oakenshield page?
Thanks for your help.

~Nauglafring

:We use referencing templates - see [[Template:PM]] for People of M-e.
:It didn't fit in the paragraph because you left one original sentence at the end. That sentence had no connection to the one you added. Also, it contained the sources for the entire section, which you negated by adding a new source before that. It was a lengthy elaboration that broke the structure. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:15, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. I appreciate the work you do to maintain a high-quality site. Hopefully I'll learn the ropes quickly and not take up too much of your time in the future.

~Nauglafring

::I'm just a janitor, nowadays. I clean stuff up and delete other stuff. The others do the hard part. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 13:52, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

== Voronwe ==
Please look at my forum on Voronwë.--[[User:Pippin4|Pippin4]] 02:17, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

:Okay. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:42, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Ederchil! I'll be putting up a new Forum soon please check it out when it comes! --[[User:Pippin4|Pippin4]] 15:02, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

== Idril page ==

Dear Ederchil,

I hope you are having a good holiday.

As to the Idril page I put the information on their that is found in the book of Lost tales 2 Appendix.
Could you please tell me what I did wrong?

Signed Watcher at the Silver Gate

Idril

2013-12-29T23:19:26Z

Watcher at the Silver Gate: /* Etymology */

{{expansion}}{{noldor infobox
| image=[[Image:Anna Lee - Idril.jpg|250px]]
| name=Idril
| pronun=
| othernames=''Itarillë'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]]), ''Celebrindal'' ([[Sindarin|S]], [[epessë]])
| titles=Princess of [[Gondolin]]
| position=
| location=[[Vinyamar]], [[Gondolin]]
| affiliation=
| language=[[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]]
| birth=During [[Years of the Trees]]
| birthlocation=[[Valinor]]
| rule=
| sailedwest={{FA|525}}
| sailedfrom=[[Mouths of Sirion]]
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=[[House of Fingolfin]]
| parentage=[[Elenwë]] and [[Turgon]]
| siblings=
| spouse=[[Tuor]]
| children=[[Eärendil]]
| gender=Female
| height=
| hair=Golden
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=[[Eärrámë]] (ship)
}}{{Pronounce|Idril Celebrindal.mp3|Ardamir}}
'''Idril Celebrindal''' was the daughter of King [[Turgon]] of [[Gondolin]] and [[Elenwë]], the wife of [[Tuor]], and the mother of [[Eärendil|Eärendil the Mariner]].

Of the [[Noldor]] who [[Flight of the Noldor|returned]] to [[Middle-earth]] documented to have [[Vanyar|Vanyarin]] ancestry, Idril has the most, being five-eighths Vanyarin by ancestry. Her full-Vanyarin mother [[Elenwë]] fell during the crossing at [[Helcaraxë]], and so did not step foot in Middle-earth. Idril's son [[Eärendil]] is also documented the most heavily Vanyarin of the [[Half-elven]], being five-sixteenths Vanyarin by ancestry.

== History ==
[[Image:Idril.gif|left|thumb|[[Idril Celebrindal]]'s device, depicting a [[menelluin]], with 12 points]]
Idril Celebrindal was the only child of Turgon. She participated in the [[Flight of the Noldor]], and in the [[Helcaraxë]] almost lost her life falling through the ice with several others, but Turgon saved her,{{fact}} though he lost his wife Elenwë. Together with [[Angrod]]'s son [[Orodreth]] she was one of the two Noldor in the third generation to come into exile. Idril was loved in secret by her cousin [[Maeglin]], the son of [[Eöl]] the Dark Elf and [[Aredhel]], Turgon's sister, but she scorned his advances because of his dark character, and the fact they were too closely related.

When Tuor, son of [[Huor]] arrived in [[Gondolin]], Idril fell in love with him. Because Turgon had grown to love Tuor as a son (as he had his father before), and remembering the last words of Huor, he allowed Idril and Tuor to wed, thus bringing about the second union of the [[Eldar]] and [[Edain]], after [[Beren]] and [[Lúthien]]. Idril encouraged Tuor to build the secret passage known as [[Idril's Secret Way]], and thus enabled many to escape the [[Fall of Gondolin]]. In Gondolin she had a son, [[Eärendil]].

After the fall of Gondolin, Idril and Tuor became leaders of the exiles at the [[Havens of Sirion]], where they also received [[Elwing]] daughter of [[Dior]] son of Beren and Lúthien.

When Tuor grew old he departed in his ship for the [[Aman|West]], and Idril went with him. It is believed by the Elves and [[Dúnedain]] that Idril and Tuor arrived in Valinor, bypassing the [[Ban of the Valar]], and that Tuor became reckoned in the kindred of the Elves, so that they both live in [[Valinor]].

== Etymology ==
The name Idril is the [[Sindarin]] form of her [[Quenya]] name ''Itarildë'' (or ''Itarillë''), which means "Sparkling Brilliance". {{fact}}

She was called [[Celebrindal]], "Silver-foot", because she always went barefoot.<ref>{{S|Noldor}}</ref>

It is also worthy of note that the word Idhril is often confused with Idril. Furthermore the word idril is the Gnomish 'sweetheart'. Referenced The Book of Lost Tales 2

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Idril|Images of Idril Celebrindal]]

{{References}}

[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:House of Fingolfin]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[Category:Sindarin names]]
[[Category:Vanyar]]
[[de:Idril]]
[[fi:Idril]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/noldor/idril]]

The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king

2013-12-13T00:49:41Z

Watcher at the Silver Gate: /* Campaign */ Edit of addition

{{expansion}}{{disambig-more|The Lord of the Rings|[[The Lord of the Rings (disambiguation)]]}}
{{video game infobox
| image=[[Image:ROTWK.jpg|250px]]
| name=The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II
| developer=[[Electronic Arts]]
| publisher=[[Electronic Arts]]
| platform=Microsoft Windows, Xbox 360
| releasedate=November 28, 2006
| genre=Real-time strategy
|}}'''The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II - The Rise of the Witch-king''' is a real-time strategy computer game published by Electronic Arts. It is the expansion pack to [[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II|The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]], from the same company. It was announced during The San Diego Comic-Con of 2006.

==Campaign==
The Campaign is set in [[Angmar]], where the Witch-King must unite the [[Black Númenóreans]] and the [[Trolls]] in order to create a massive army to fight against [[Arnor]]. After the fortress of [[Carn Dum]] is constructed, the Witch-King conquers [[Rhudaur]] and [[Cardolan]]. Meanwhile, [[Glorfindel]] attacks [[Carn Dum]], and the forces of Angmar are weakened. After several years, the force of [[Angmar]] prepares for a last attack: the siege of [[Fornost]]. However, Prince [[Eärnur]] of Gondor, [[Glorfindel]] and [[Elrond]] make a final attack in [[Angmar]], slaying all the Witch King's servants. While semi accurate or even impeccably accurate the publishers did take some liberties especially in the names of charters that do not exists or that were never given a name.<ref> {{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsI8Nc9kEAA|articlename=The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king - Epilogue|dated=20 September 2009|website=YT|accessed=4 March 2012}}</ref>

==Differences from The Battle for Middle-earth II==
There are several improvements. The main improvement is the new faction, [[Angmar]]. Other improvements to the game include the new [[Trolls|Olog-Hai]], class of custom hero, improvements to the existing factions, and new hero units. The three sub-classes of Olog-Hai are the Great Troll, the Troll in the previous game, the Snow Troll, and the Hill Troll. The Good and Evil campaigns have been replaced with the single Angmar campaign. There have also been numerous improvements to the War of the Ring and Skirmish battles.
The hero units belong to all of the previous factions only. The hero units are listed as such: Zealots ([[Dwarves]]), Knights of Dol Amaroth ([[Men]]), Noldor Warriors ([[Elves]]), Black Orcs ([[Mordor]]), [[Uruk-hai|Uruk Death Bringers]] ([[Isengard]]), and Fire Drake Broods ([[Orcs|Goblins]]). The hero units have a limit of only one to three allowed, depending on which type. Like the heroes, the hero units learn skills at certain levels, although not as many. They can heal like heroes, but if a single member dies, it will not respawn unless you either produce a new one or use the Heal power.

==Additional voice cast==
{| class="wikitable"
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"
! Role !! Actor
|-
| [[Arveleg I|Arveleg]] || [[Cam Clarke]]
|-
| [[Carthean]]/[[Karsh]] || [[Jason Connery]]
|-
| [[Azog]] || [[Rob Dean]]
|-
| [[Dáin Ironfoot]] || [[Bob Joles]]
|-
| [[Morgomir]] || [[Keith Ferguson]]
|-
| [[Hwaldar]] || [[Lloyd Sherr]]
|-
|}

{{References}}
{{title|italics}}
[[Category:EA Games]]
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]
[[Category:Real-time strategy games]]
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]
[[de:Die Schlacht um Mittelerde]]

The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king

2013-12-13T00:48:27Z

Watcher at the Silver Gate: /* Campaign */ Addition

{{expansion}}{{disambig-more|The Lord of the Rings|[[The Lord of the Rings (disambiguation)]]}}
{{video game infobox
| image=[[Image:ROTWK.jpg|250px]]
| name=The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II
| developer=[[Electronic Arts]]
| publisher=[[Electronic Arts]]
| platform=Microsoft Windows, Xbox 360
| releasedate=November 28, 2006
| genre=Real-time strategy
|}}'''The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II - The Rise of the Witch-king''' is a real-time strategy computer game published by Electronic Arts. It is the expansion pack to [[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II|The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]], from the same company. It was announced during The San Diego Comic-Con of 2006.

==Campaign==
The Campaign is set in [[Angmar]], where the Witch-King must unite the [[Black Númenóreans]] and the [[Trolls]] in order to create a massive army to fight against [[Arnor]]. After the fortress of [[Carn Dum]] is constructed, the Witch-King conquers [[Rhudaur]] and [[Cardolan]]. Meanwhile, [[Glorfindel]] attacks [[Carn Dum]], and the forces of Angmar are weakened. After several years, the force of [[Angmar]] prepares for a last attack: the siege of [[Fornost]]. However, Prince [[Eärnur]] of Gondor, [[Glorfindel]] and [[Elrond]] make a final attack in [[Angmar]], slaying all the Witch King's servants.<ref> While semi accurate or even impeccably accurate the publishers did take some liberties especially in the names of charters that do not exists or that were never given a name.{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsI8Nc9kEAA|articlename=The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king - Epilogue|dated=20 September 2009|website=YT|accessed=4 March 2012}}</ref>

==Differences from The Battle for Middle-earth II==
There are several improvements. The main improvement is the new faction, [[Angmar]]. Other improvements to the game include the new [[Trolls|Olog-Hai]], class of custom hero, improvements to the existing factions, and new hero units. The three sub-classes of Olog-Hai are the Great Troll, the Troll in the previous game, the Snow Troll, and the Hill Troll. The Good and Evil campaigns have been replaced with the single Angmar campaign. There have also been numerous improvements to the War of the Ring and Skirmish battles.
The hero units belong to all of the previous factions only. The hero units are listed as such: Zealots ([[Dwarves]]), Knights of Dol Amaroth ([[Men]]), Noldor Warriors ([[Elves]]), Black Orcs ([[Mordor]]), [[Uruk-hai|Uruk Death Bringers]] ([[Isengard]]), and Fire Drake Broods ([[Orcs|Goblins]]). The hero units have a limit of only one to three allowed, depending on which type. Like the heroes, the hero units learn skills at certain levels, although not as many. They can heal like heroes, but if a single member dies, it will not respawn unless you either produce a new one or use the Heal power.

==Additional voice cast==
{| class="wikitable"
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"
! Role !! Actor
|-
| [[Arveleg I|Arveleg]] || [[Cam Clarke]]
|-
| [[Carthean]]/[[Karsh]] || [[Jason Connery]]
|-
| [[Azog]] || [[Rob Dean]]
|-
| [[Dáin Ironfoot]] || [[Bob Joles]]
|-
| [[Morgomir]] || [[Keith Ferguson]]
|-
| [[Hwaldar]] || [[Lloyd Sherr]]
|-
|}

{{References}}
{{title|italics}}
[[Category:EA Games]]
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]
[[Category:Real-time strategy games]]
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]
[[de:Die Schlacht um Mittelerde]]

Aredhel

2013-11-19T01:14:59Z

Watcher at the Silver Gate:

{{noldor infobox
| image=[[File:Darcival - Aredhel.jpg|250px]]
| name=Aredhel
| othernames=''Írissë'', ''Ar-Feiniel'', "White Lady of the Noldor"
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Gondolin]]
| affiliation=
| language=[[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]]
| birth={{YT|1362}}<ref name="Annal">{{MR|Annals}}, p. 102, notes 8 and 9</ref>
| birthlocation=[[Tirion]]
| rule=
| death={{FA|400}}
| deathlocation=[[Gondolin]]
| age=1,738 years<ref group="note">Years of the Sun. Each Year of the Tree is equal to 9.582 Years of the Sun, and the Years of the Trees ended in the year 1500. So, 400 + 9.582 x 138 = 1,777.</ref>
| house=[[House of Fingolfin]]
| parentage=[[Fingolfin]] and [[Anairë]]
| siblings=[[Fingon]], [[Turgon]] and [[Argon]]
| spouse=[[Eöl]]
| children=[[Maeglin]]
| gender=Female
| height=Tall<ref name="Princes">{{S|Princes}}</ref>
| hair=Dark<ref name="Princes"/>
| eyes=
| clothing=Silver and white<ref name="Princes"/>
| weapons=
| steed=
}}'''Aredhel''', also called '''Ar-Feiniel''', the White Lady of the [[Noldor]], was the daughter of High King [[Fingolfin]] and [[Anairë]], sister of [[Fingon]], [[Turgon]], and [[Argon]], and mother of [[Maeglin]].

She was tall and strong, fond of hunting and riding in the forests. Her skin was pale and her hair dark; she always wore silver and white. She was fond of the sons of [[Fëanor]], especially [[Celegorm]] and [[Curufin]].

==History==

After arriving in [[Middle-earth]], she dwelt in [[Nevrast]] with Turgon, and went with him to [[Gondolin]]. But after two hundred years the longing for the forests and wide lands overcame her, and she asked leave to depart. Turgon was unwilling, fearing the exposure of the [[Gondolin|Hidden Kingdom]], but eventually relented.

Riding with companions, they were denied entrance to [[Doriath]], it being closed to the [[Noldor|Ñoldor]], and so they went around to the north, where she was separated in the dangerous region of [[Nan Dungortheb]] and reported lost. She reached [[Himlad]] safely, however, and waited there to meet [[Celegorm]] who was abroad, but eventually she wandered out of boredom, and became lost in the forest of [[Nan Elmoth]].
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Eöl Welcomes Aredhel.jpg|thumb|left|Aredhel meeting Eöl]]
[[Eöl]] the [[Dark Elf]] ruled those woods; he saw her in the dark woods and was enamoured of her. He put an enchanment on her which caused her to wander ever more deeply into the woods and not find her way out. Eventually they met, and he led her to his home, where she stayed for many years, and they were married. They had a son named Maeglin, and in telling him of her former life and home, Aredhel desired to see her kin again. Ëol, however, forbade them from having any contact with the Noldor, or even mentioning the sons of Fëanor. She left Nan Elmoth with Maeglin while Eöl was away. They reached Gondolin (not realizing that Eöl was following them all the while), and were received with rejoicing. Eöl was also discovered and brought before Turgon, but rather than accept Turgon's judgment, he attempted to kill his son. Aredhel stepped in front of the javelin as it was throne. Then afterword with Idril they moved Turgon to have mercy on Eöl. Yet she died in the night; for the wound was little but the javelin had been poisoned. Turgon had after that had no mercy for Eöl and he was cast down from the city walls and died.

==Etymology==

Aredhel's name in [[Valinor]] used to be '''''Írissë'''''. In [[Sindarin]] this name was ''Íreth''.<ref>{{PM|XI}}, p. 345</ref>

The name ''Aredhel'' means "Noble Elf" in [[Sindarin]],<ref>{{PE|17}}, p. 139</ref> and is probably an [[epessë]] acquired later.{{fact}}

Note on pronunciation: Aredhel should be pronounced ''ar-eth-el'' (hard "th"), not ''ar-ed-hel''.

== Other Versions of the Legendarium ==
The names ''Aredhel'' and ''Ar-Feiniel'' ("noble white lady") were both originally intended to stand alone, and be used as the main name of Irissë. While preparing ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' for publication [[Christopher Tolkien]] could not discover which name was intended to be used as her final name, and he therefore chose to use both names: a decision he later stated in [[the History of Middle-earth]] series was possibly mistaken.

==Genealogy==
 
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| MIR |y|~|~|~|~| FIN |~|~|~|~|y| IND | | | | | | | |FIN=[[Finwë]]|IND=[[Indis]]|MIR=[[Míriel]]}}
{{familytree| | | |!| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | |}}
{{familytree| | | FEA | | FDS | | FNG |y| ANA | | IRM | | FIR | |FEA=[[Fëanor]]|FDS=[[Findis]]|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]|ANA=[[Anairë]]|IRM=[[Írimë]]|FIR=[[Finarfin]]}}
{{familytree| |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| FIN | | ELE |y| TUR | | ARE |y| EOL | | ARG |FIN=[[Fingon]]|ARE='''AREDHEL'''|TUR=[[Turgon]]|ELE=[[Elenwë]]|EOL=[[Eöl]]|ARG=[[Argon]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | TUO |y| IDR | | | | | | MAE | | | | | | |MAE=[[Maeglin]]|IDR=[[Idril]]|TUO=[[Tuor]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | EAR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |EAR=[[Eärendil]]}}
{{familytree/end}}
 

==See Also==
* [[:Category:Images of Aredhel|Images of Aredhel]]
{{references|note}}

* {{S|Maeglin}}
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:House of Fingolfin]]

Aredhel

2013-11-19T01:14:25Z

Watcher at the Silver Gate:

{{noldor infobox
| image=[[File:Darcival - Aredhel.jpg|250px]]
| name=Aredhel
| othernames=''Írissë'', ''Ar-Feiniel'', "White Lady of the Noldor"
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Gondolin]]
| affiliation=
| language=[[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]]
| birth={{YT|1362}}<ref name="Annal">{{MR|Annals}}, p. 102, notes 8 and 9</ref>
| birthlocation=[[Tirion]]
| rule=
| death={{FA|400}}
| deathlocation=[[Gondolin]]
| age=1,738 years<ref group="note">Years of the Sun. Each Year of the Tree is equal to 9.582 Years of the Sun, and the Years of the Trees ended in the year 1500. So, 400 + 9.582 x 138 = 1,777.</ref>
| house=[[House of Fingolfin]]
| parentage=[[Fingolfin]] and [[Anairë]]
| siblings=[[Fingon]], [[Turgon]] and [[Argon]]
| spouse=[[Eöl]]
| children=[[Maeglin]]
| gender=Female
| height=Tall<ref name="Princes">{{S|Princes}}</ref>
| hair=Dark<ref name="Princes"/>
| eyes=
| clothing=Silver and white<ref name="Princes"/>
| weapons=
| steed=
}}'''Aredhel''', also called '''Ar-Feiniel''', the White Lady of the [[Noldor]], was the daughter of High King [[Fingolfin]] and [[Anairë]], sister of [[Fingon]], [[Turgon]], and [[Argon]], and mother of [[Maeglin]].

She was tall and strong, fond of hunting and riding in the forests. Her skin was pale and her hair dark; she always wore silver and white. She was fond of the sons of [[Fëanor]], especially [[Celegorm]] and [[Curufin]].

==History==

After arriving in [[Middle-earth]], she dwelt in [[Nevrast]] with Turgon, and went with him to [[Gondolin]]. But after two hundred years the longing for the forests and wide lands overcame her, and she asked leave to depart. Turgon was unwilling, fearing the exposure of the [[Gondolin|Hidden Kingdom]], but eventually relented.

Riding with companions, they were denied entrance to [[Doriath]], it being closed to the [[Noldor|Ñoldor]], and so they went around to the north, where she was separated in the dangerous region of [[Nan Dungortheb]] and reported lost. She reached [[Himlad]] safely, however, and waited there to meet [[Celegorm]] who was abroad, but eventually she wandered out of boredom, and became lost in the forest of [[Nan Elmoth]].
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Eöl Welcomes Aredhel.jpg|thumb|left|Aredhel meeting Eöl]]
[[Eöl]] the [[Dark Elf]] ruled those woods; he saw her in the dark woods and was enamoured of her. He put an enchanment on her which caused her to wander ever more deeply into the woods and not find her way out. Eventually they met, and he led her to his home, where she stayed for many years, and they were married. They had a son named Maeglin, and in telling him of her former life and home, Aredhel desired to see her kin again. Ëol, however, forbade them from having any contact with the Noldor, or even mentioning the sons of Fëanor. She left Nan Elmoth with Maeglin while Eöl was away. They reached Gondolin (not realizing that Eöl was following them all the while), and were received with rejoicing. Eöl was also discovered and brought before Turgon, but rather than accept Turgon's judgment, he attempted to kill his son. Aredhel stepped in front of the javelin as it was throne. Then afterword with Idril they moved Turgon to have mercy on Eöl. Yet she died in the night; for the wound was little but the javelin had been poisoned. Turgon had after that had no mercy for Eöl and he was cast down from the city walls and died. {S 138}

==Etymology==

Aredhel's name in [[Valinor]] used to be '''''Írissë'''''. In [[Sindarin]] this name was ''Íreth''.<ref>{{PM|XI}}, p. 345</ref>

The name ''Aredhel'' means "Noble Elf" in [[Sindarin]],<ref>{{PE|17}}, p. 139</ref> and is probably an [[epessë]] acquired later.{{fact}}

Note on pronunciation: Aredhel should be pronounced ''ar-eth-el'' (hard "th"), not ''ar-ed-hel''.

== Other Versions of the Legendarium ==
The names ''Aredhel'' and ''Ar-Feiniel'' ("noble white lady") were both originally intended to stand alone, and be used as the main name of Irissë. While preparing ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' for publication [[Christopher Tolkien]] could not discover which name was intended to be used as her final name, and he therefore chose to use both names: a decision he later stated in [[the History of Middle-earth]] series was possibly mistaken.

==Genealogy==
 
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| MIR |y|~|~|~|~| FIN |~|~|~|~|y| IND | | | | | | | |FIN=[[Finwë]]|IND=[[Indis]]|MIR=[[Míriel]]}}
{{familytree| | | |!| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | |}}
{{familytree| | | FEA | | FDS | | FNG |y| ANA | | IRM | | FIR | |FEA=[[Fëanor]]|FDS=[[Findis]]|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]|ANA=[[Anairë]]|IRM=[[Írimë]]|FIR=[[Finarfin]]}}
{{familytree| |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| FIN | | ELE |y| TUR | | ARE |y| EOL | | ARG |FIN=[[Fingon]]|ARE='''AREDHEL'''|TUR=[[Turgon]]|ELE=[[Elenwë]]|EOL=[[Eöl]]|ARG=[[Argon]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | TUO |y| IDR | | | | | | MAE | | | | | | |MAE=[[Maeglin]]|IDR=[[Idril]]|TUO=[[Tuor]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | EAR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |EAR=[[Eärendil]]}}
{{familytree/end}}
 

==See Also==
* [[:Category:Images of Aredhel|Images of Aredhel]]
{{references|note}}

* {{S|Maeglin}}
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:House of Fingolfin]]

User talk:Morgan/2015–6

2013-11-19T01:02:24Z

Watcher at the Silver Gate: /* Idril page */ new section

<div style="float:right; border:1px solid #C0C090; padding:5px; background-color:#F9F9F9;">[[File:Archive.png|50px|center]]
<center>'''Archives'''</center>
*[[User_talk:Morgan/2011|2011]]
</div>
{{usertalk}}

== Moving articles ==

Re. "Joseph Wright 19??", just to let you know you should be able to untick the box "Leave a redirect behind" when you move something so there is no redirect left behind for me to delete! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:37, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

:Good, I'll try think about that in the future (thought it only worked with images)! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

== [[Sauron]] code ==

Here you are: "<nowiki>{{Transcribed|Sauron Tengwar Quenya mode.png|Sauron|Tengwar, Quenya mode}}</nowiki>". --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 00:32, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

== Translations ==

I cannot find - but thought we might have - an article that lists translations of ''[[The Hobbit]]'', ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' etc. Something like [[wikipedia:Translations of The Lord of the Rings|this]] (there's also [http://www.elrondslibrary.fr/index.html this website] which is useful). Do we have ''anything'' like this, and if not, should we have it? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:27, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

:I've been thinking about that too - it would be good to have. From what I can remember, we only have (in the case of translations of The Hobbit), the list on the main article itself. Is a sub-page a good option in this case, or would a totally separate article be better (like "The Hobbit translations" perhaps "Index:The Hobbit translations")? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

::I should also say that I think some translations merit their own article, like ''[[Hompen]]''.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:06, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

:::I don't think it should be an index. "Translations of ''The Hobbit''" and "Translations of ''The Lord of the Rings''" etc. should be fine. I agree that some translations should have their own articles where appropriate.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 12:15, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

::''NOT'' Index. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:17, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

==[[Conselho Branco, Sociedade Tolkien]]==
Hi Morgan, 
Could you take a look at [[Conselho Branco, Sociedade Tolkien]] and provide sources, as according to [[User:Stbtolkien]] it includes unreliable and untruthful information. Thank you! --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 16:39, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

:It's a very old article, before we started being careful about sources. I had some source back then, but I can't be bothered to find it. Just tag the page with delete if it's questioned.--18:35, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

::After looking at the [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Conselho_Branco,_Sociedade_Tolkien&oldid=116155 history of the article] I see you did add a few sources to the article. Unfortunally it only showed "testa". So I've removed the questioned sentences. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 19:34, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

:::While attempting to find a source, I found a Googlecatch entry of the old site by accident:
:::*[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rP9Bv75cihUJ:www.conselhobranco.com.br/+Conselho+Branco,+Sociedade+Tolkien&cd=1&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl Site]
:::According to the description the site will be down for an unspecified time. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 19:53, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

==Vaire==

To Morgan- Thank's for informing me [[User:Vaire|Vaire]]

:You're welcome!--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:29, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I changed it so it's not saying to think about what happened [[User:Vaire|Vaire]] 20:31, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

== The Tolkien Journal ==

Is [http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Tolkien-Journal-Running-Press/dp/076244746X/ref=sr_1_56?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1340963899&sr=1-56 this] a new book or a re-release? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:11, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

::A new book, is my guess.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 10:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

:::It's just all their books are re-releases from the 80s and this one looks old like the others. I can't find any record of it being out before, though (unless it was under a different title). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

== Pal. quote reference. ==

The reference is from page 422 of Unfinished Tales, The Palantiri ch;

''Saruman had no doubt from his investigations gained knowledge of the Stones, things that would attract his attention, and had become convinced that the Orthanc-stone was still intact in its tower.''

- [[User:Mclaren01|Mclaren01]] 8:55, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

:Thanks, Maclaren. I've restored your sentence after checking the reference. For future edits, just let me know if you're uncertain about how to add references using the templates and codes -- I would be glad to offer any kind of help.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:12, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

:By the way, I didn't add a page number to the reference since the pagination differs between different editions of ''Unfinished Tales''. Our [[Template:UT|UT template]] is fairly detailed, however, so it shouldn't be any trouble for people to check a reference just pointing to a section in this book.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:14, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

== What are you doing? ==

What's your rationale behind applying all of these [[Template:Copyright-unknown]]s? I put that template on the Parma Eldalamberon covers whilst we wait for permission to use them (I contacted Gilson again today by a different e-mail address). I will get round to going through the WhatLinksHere for {{Redlink|[[Template:Fairuse-cover]]}}, so it's not helpful to randomly change the template to [[Template:Copyright-unknown]]. Also why did you apply [[Template:Copyright-unknown]] for covers with a Fairuse template (+ publisher details) on them? Were they wrong?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:18, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

::By the same logic we need to have permission for all covers used on TG. Has anyone contacted HarperCollins etc for permission to use their covers? New Line Cinema? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:22, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

:::There are numerous channels through which you could have communicated your point; talking is better than vandalising. We don't ''need'' permission from every single organisation whose work we use - fairuse is there and we should use it (and not abuse it). My rationale behind contacting the E.L.F. and the Mythopoeic Society (and Mith has sought permission from the Tolkien Society) is simple: they are Tolkien fans like you and I, and they are likely to give us permission. Therefore I'm operating on the principle that if I can contact the copyright holder (in hope of obtaining permission to use their work) then I will. Even if I could contact HarperCollins and New Line Cinema, their lawyers have better things to do than grant (or refuse!) individual requests from organisations like us.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

::::No, ''you'' should have made it clear about extending this rationale to include covers of publications, in a meeting, for example. Changing the status of cover images to "will be deleted" is very frustrating when you have spent a lot of time compiling/scanning such; every Tolkien-related website or blog (scholarly or non-scholarly) I've come across assumes it's fair use to reproduce covers of publications. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:17, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

:::::I had honestly forgotten that [[Template:Copyright-unknown]] included the words "This file will be deleted unless...", and that's why I wish you had told me that this was your grievance in the first place (and let me reiterate that I'm still annoyed that you resorted to vandalism rather than coming to me to discuss it). Let me explain what happened today: I saw that you used {{Redlink|[[Template:Fairuse-cover]]}} on [[:File:Parma Eldalamberon 12.jpg]] and, because Template:Fairuse-cover should not be used on new images, I replaced it [[Template:Copyright-unknown]]. I then decided to tidy up the other ''Parma Eldalamberon'' covers (including giving them their own category) and in the process I added Template:Copyright-unknown to all of them as we will probably get permission soon.

:::::There has been no change in policy; we've used the new system for covers of publications since the new system was first established. I'm perfectly happy to discuss how we handle copyright for publication covers, if that's what you want (although, if this is the case, I wish that we had held it sooner). I'm sorry if my actions have upset or frustrated you, but I suspect that you wouldn't have been so annoyed if you had simply contacted me about it.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:45, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

::::::I've emailed you.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

== Noncanon template ==

Would you like me to use my bot to remove all usages of Template:Noncanon?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:40, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

:Hm, I'm not sure. I'm just thinking that there might be articles without references or which don't explain the canonical status.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 13:43, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

::Fair enough.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:46, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

== Bombadil sentence ==

And why did you remove the sentence I added? -- [[User:Mclaren01]] 4:56 PM, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

:Hi Mclaren01, you made a great point; but I think we need to include a reference to back up your statement. That way the reader knows where that idea comes from. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 07:15, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

::Furthermore it was an [[Wiktionary:incomplete sentence|incomplete sentence]].--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

:::"He might do so, if all the free folk of the world begged him, but he would not understand the need" Gandalf, the Council of Elrond, pg 259 I Wrote the sentence as a summary of this statement by Gandalf about Bombadilo's mentality. If you have a clearer, etc, sentence in mind you can consider that instead. -- [[User:Mclaren01]] 11:03 AM, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

::::Thanks for the clarification, Mclaren. I will take a look at the issue tomorrow.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 00:23, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

:::::Mclaren, this is my conclusion: right now the first part of your addition would already be included in the preceding sentence (that is, Tom not being "fully aware of the struggle of Light and Darkness", equivalent to your "A mindset clear of conceptions of 'Good' and 'Evil'"). The One Ring hasn't been mentioned before in the article, and it would therefore take a major rewrite to include your last part (" he would not understand overtures to keep and conceal the One Ring himself if all the peoples of Middle-earth begged him to") at this point, since the section "War of the Ring" follows.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:57, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

== Hobbit in French ==

Hello Morgan. I just see your message on my discussion page. It's a new translation, made by Daniel Lauzon (also translator of the HoMe 3 at 5). I've change the url you've added for another where Daniel Lauzon have answering some questions and enlighted some of his choices. [[User:Druss|Druss]] 13:01, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

== Black Speech ==

Hello there Morgan I was thinkong of bringong more details to the [[Black speech]] page but maybe it shouldn't be there where I put it so we must make a new Headline. However it would be nice if we could have a little bit more information about this language however rude he looked like.

Yours fathiful

--[[User:Glaurung the Golden|Glaurung the Golden]] 13:58, 11 January 2013 (UTC)Glaurung the Golden

:Hi there. I [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Black_Speech&action=historysubmit&diff=225496&oldid=225442 tweaked] your contribution and added it to the article.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:14, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes thanks mate, i was just thinking to mention the use of ergative in it

--[[User:Glaurung the Golden|Glaurung the Golden]] 17:03, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[[Glaurung the Golden]]

:Well, to me "ergative" is specialized linguistic terminology -- I'm not sure we need to include this on Tolkien Gateway and at the very least not just a quick mention. Fauskanger devotes a whole section of his article to the ergative case in relation to the Black Speech and Hurrian. If you find a good way to explain this in a simple way, it could possibly be included. I don't want to be the sole judge here! :) But IMHO think it suffices with a link to Fauskanger's article, for those wanting more detailed information.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:11, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

:Ergative is a grammatical case that is used to explain the subject of transitive verb mostly in ergative-absolutive languages. But, alright if it's too complicated for TG then i will try to make more simple. However Tolkien himself was a philologist :)
We will end this conversation now, don't want to waste your time anymore.

Your's faithiful

--~~[[User:Glaurung the Golden|Glaurung]]

== New users ==

You don't need to add <nowiki>{{user}}</nowiki> to the user page of every new editor. It's only for those who write on talk pages and, therefore, leave a redlink lying around. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:12, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

:Ah, thanks for letting me know. I thought the red-linked user name appearing in recent changes also turned up in wanted pages.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:33, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

== Total Edits ==

Hi Morgan, I apologize but I'm afraid we're going to have to block your account from future editing. I'm sure you understand....you're just getting too close to my edit total. :) (I will admit, you passed me long ago if we're counting quality contributions) Keep up the great work! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 03:55, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

:+1.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 09:46, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

::Hehe, but I actually fear that quantity rather than quality has been my main contribution to TG! :) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:59, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
==Check==
Hi Morgan. I understand that you own several old and recent editions of LotR. Could you please check out [[Talk:Prisca_Baggins|this matter]] and have a look in Appendix C of your books? I own only one version (pre-50th Anniversary), which is not available to me ATM so I can't cross-check. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

:Hello Sage! Certainly, I will check when I come back home later today.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:58, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

== Referencing ==

Hi Morgan!

I'm trying to understand how to include a reference in the article that links back to a source that has already been given. I know I'm supposed to use < ref name=One>And this is source number one</ref> and such, but does this also work with shortcuts such as {S|1}}? If so, how?
--[[User:Shadrak|Shadrak]] 16:56, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

::Hi Shadrak!

::<nowiki><ref name=S1>{{S|1}}</ref></nowiki> 

::<nowiki><ref name=S1/></nowiki>

::The first code line above creates an original reference to ''The Silmarillion'', Chapter 1. The second code line "links back" to the same reference. You can use any name as the reference name, but the name needs to be the same when you link to it.

::Does it make sense? '''You can see an example [[User:Morgan/Sandbox9|here]]'''.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:01, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Perfect, thanks!--[[User:Shadrak|Shadrak]] 20:17, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

== Undone edits ==

Hi Morgan! Quick question: I noticed you reverted the edits done to the "Ents" page by user 204.108.96.90. Just to clarify, was that due to the fact that there were no references, or was there something else that was questionable about the edits? I just ask because user 204.108.96.90 happens to be me before I created an account. :O) {{Unsigned|Shadrak}}

:Hello Shadrak! I'll be blunt, and hope you'll see my opinion as constructive criticism. The reason for undoing the edits was a combination of many things: the lack of references was the most important (for example, a statement needing a source is "...created at the request of the Vala Yavanna to protect the trees from other creatures, particularly Dwarves..."). In addition, the edits I reverted carried a speculative, non-encyclopedic tone: for example, "...they are undoubtedly counted among...". Finally, there were a couple of spelling errors ("phisiology" and "Middle-Earth"). As administrators, we tend to be less forgiving when it comes to anonymous edits (for psychological reasons, I guess).--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 15:34, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
::Cool. I didn't take it personally. ;) I just wanna learn to contribute in the most thorough and objective way. Is it ok if I re-post the edits addressing these issues?--[[User:Shadrak|Shadrak]] 19:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Naturally! I should also like to point out that I think admins and fellow editors are more willing to "correct" or improve edits when these are done by registered editors -- it's an indication that the editor is serious and willing to participate in discussions.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:32, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
::::Excellent. Please check the Ents page later today and let me know if you notice anything else I can improve.--[[User:Shadrak|Shadrak]] 19:42, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::IMHO, the edit you now did works better as an introduction (that is, an introduction shouldn't be too wordy).--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:50, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

==Own story==

Excuse me, do you know if there is a website where a person may create their own stories of Middle-earth, thanks.--[[Special:Contributions/50.122.9.252|50.122.9.252]] 22:53, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

:I'd recommend the [http://www.lotrplaza.com/forumdisplay.php?16-Cottage-of-Lost-Play Cottage of Lost Play] at the LotR Fanatics Plaza. If you search on Google, there appears to be many fan fiction websites (like [http://www.tolkienfanfiction.com/ this one]), but I couldn't say if any of them are better or worse.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:31, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

== Idril page ==

Dear Morgan,

I was reviewing the page on idril and could not find any information to back up the following claim- "and in the Helcaraxë almost lost her life falling through the ice with several others, but Turgon saved her, though he lost his wife Elenwë." In the Silmarillion it is said that Elenwe lost her life but I find no mention of Idril.

Hope you can help,

Watcher at the Silver Gate

Eöl

2013-11-18T00:13:05Z

Watcher at the Silver Gate: /* History */

{{rewrite}}
{{Sindar infobox
| image=[[File:Ted Nasmith - Eöl Welcomes Aredhel.jpg|250px]]
| name=Eöl
| othernames="[[Dark Elf]]"
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Nan Elmoth]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=During {{YT}}
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death={{FA|400}}
| deathlocation=[[Gondolin]]
| age=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=[[Aredhel]]
| children=[[Maeglin]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=Black
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=Javelin and [[Anguirel]]
| steed=
}}{{pronounce|Sindarin - Eöl.mp3|Gilgamesh}}

'''Eöl''', known as the '''[[Dark Elf]]''', was an [[Elves|Elf]] of the [[Elder Days]]. It is said that he belonged to the [[Avari]] of the [[Tatyar]] who eventually reached [[Beleriand]]<Ref>{{WJ|Author}}, Note 9</ref>.
==History==
<center>{{quote|You are of the house of Eöl, Maeglin, my son, and not of the Golodhrim. All this land is the land of the Teleri, and I will not deal nor have my son deal with the slayers of our kin, the invaders and usurpers of our homes. In this you shall obey me, or I will set you in bonds.|''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Maeglin]]}}</center>

Eöl was originally part of the royal house of King [[Thingol|Elu Thingol]]. Eöl was unhappy in his homeland of [[Doriath]], and when the [[Girdle of Melian]] was raised around the kingdom, he left to dwell in the dark forest of [[Nan Elmoth]], east of his homeland.

Eöl was a skillful craftsman and master sword smith. Among his greatest works were two swords made from the iron of a meteorite, [[Anglachel]] and [[Anguirel]]. Anglachel he gave to Thingol as payment for dwelling in Nan Elmoth, and it would later become the sword borne by [[Túrin|Túrin Turambar]]. Eöl's smith craft was especially admired by the [[Dwarves]], and he shared a rare friendship with the Dwarves of [[Nogrod]] and [[Belegost]] in the [[Blue Mountains]]. Eöl also devised the metal known as [[galvorn]], from which he forged the armor that he used when traveling far from Nan Elmoth.

In the early third century of the First Age, Eöl came upon [[Aredhel]], the sister of King [[Turgon]] and called the [[Aredhel|White Lady]] of the [[Noldor|Ñoldor]]. She had become lost in Nan Elmoth, and Eöl used his enchantments to draw her deeper into the wood and ensnare her. She became his wife, and in the year 320 bore him a son, [[Maeglin]].

In the summer of {{FA|345}}, Eöl travelled into the Blue Mountains to feast with the Dwarves of Nogrod, and returned home to find that his wife and son had left two days earlier. Mounting a horse, he gave chase. Along the way he was waylaid and taken before Curufin who counseled him to stop his chase predicting his death should he continue. He eventually discovered them at the [[Ford of Brithiach]]. Realizing that Aredhel was returning to Gondolin with his son, Eöl followed them. He found his way to the [[Dry River]], and that secret way led him to the gates of Gondolin itself. There he was captured and taken to the King.

Turgon at first welcomed Eöl as a kinsman, but under the King's Law one who had found the way to the [[Gondolin|Hidden City]] was not permitted to leave, on pain of death. Enraged at the loss of his freedom, Eöl chose death, for himself and his son, and cast a poisoned javelin at Maeglin. Aredhel stepped in front of her son, and the poison in the dart soon killed her. In punishment for his crime, the [[Gondolindrim]] cast Eöl over the steep cliff of the [[Caragdûr]].

==Etymology==

The meaning of the name ''Eöl'' is unknown, and also to which language it pertains. The word is neither [[Quenya]] nor [[Sindarin]].<ref>{{WJ|Maeglin}}, p. 320</ref> It has been suggested that the name could be an [[Avarin]] word.<ref>[[Helge Fauskanger]], "[http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/avarin.htm Avarin: All Six Words]" at [http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/ Ardalambion] (accessed 19 December 2010)</ref>

== Genealogy ==
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree |EÖL|~|y|~|ARD| EÖL='''EÖL'''|ARD=[[Aredhel]]}}
{{familytree | | | | |!| | | | |}}
{{familytree | | | | MGL | | | | MGL=[[Maeglin]]}}
{{familytree/end}}

== See Also ==
* [[:Category:Images of Eöl|Images of Eöl]].

{{references}}

*{{S|Maeglin}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Eol}}
[[Category:Avari]]
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Tatyar]]
[[Category:Avarin words]]

Idril

2013-11-17T23:59:45Z

Watcher at the Silver Gate: /* History */

{{expansion}}{{noldor infobox
| image=[[Image:Anna Lee - Idril.jpg|250px]]
| name=Idril
| othernames=''Itarillë'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]]), ''Celebrindal'' ([[Sindarin|S]], [[epessë]])
| titles=Princess of [[Gondolin]]
| position=
| location=[[Vinyamar]], [[Gondolin]]
| affiliation=
| language=[[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]]
| birth=During [[Years of the Trees]]
| birthlocation=[[Valinor]]
| rule=
| sailedwest={{FA|525}}
| sailedfrom=[[Mouths of Sirion]]
| age=
| house=[[House of Fingolfin]]
| parentage=[[Elenwë]] and [[Turgon]]
| siblings=
| spouse=[[Tuor]]
| children=[[Eärendil]]
| gender=Female
| height=
| hair=Golden
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=[[Eärrámë]] (ship)
}}{{Pronounce|Idril Celebrindal.mp3|Ardamir}}
'''Idril Celebrindal''' was the daughter of King [[Turgon]] of [[Gondolin]] and [[Elenwë]], the wife of [[Tuor]], and the mother of [[Eärendil|Eärendil the Mariner]].

Of the [[Noldor]] who [[Flight of the Noldor|returned]] to [[Middle-earth]] documented to have [[Vanyar|Vanyarin]] ancestry, Idril has the most, being five-eighths Vanyarin by ancestry. Her full-Vanyarin mother [[Elenwë]] fell during the crossing at [[Helcaraxë]], and so did not step foot in Middle-earth. Idril's son [[Eärendil]] is also documented the most heavily Vanyarin of the [[Half-elven]], being five-sixteenths Vanyarin by ancestry.

== History ==
[[Image:Idril.gif|left|thumb|[[Idril Celebrindal]]'s device, depicting a [[menelluin]], with 12 points]]
Idril Celebrindal was the only child of Turgon. She participated in the [[Flight of the Noldor]], and in the [[Helcaraxë]] almost lost her life falling through the ice with several others, but Turgon saved her, though he lost his wife Elenwë. Together with [[Angrod]]'s son [[Orodreth]] she was one of the two Noldor in the third generation to come into exile. Idril was loved in secret by her cousin [[Maeglin]], the son of [[Eöl]] the Dark Elf and [[Aredhel]], Turgon's sister, but she scorned his advances because of his dark character, and the fact they were too closely related. "For the Eldar wedded not with kin so near, nor ever before had any desired to do so."

When Tuor, son of [[Huor]] arrived in [[Gondolin]], Idril fell in love with him. Because Turgon had grown to love Tuor as a son (as he had his father before), and remembering the last words of Huor, he allowed Idril and Tuor to wed, thus bringing about the second union of the [[Eldar]] and [[Edain]], after [[Beren]] and [[Lúthien]]. Idril encouraged Tuor to build the secret passage known as [[Idril's Secret Way]], and thus enabled many to escape the [[Fall of Gondolin]]. In Gondolin she had a son, [[Eärendil]].

After the fall of Gondolin, Idril and Tuor became leaders of the exiles at the [[Havens of Sirion]], where they also received [[Elwing]] daughter of [[Dior]] son of Beren and Lúthien.

When Tuor grew old he departed in his ship for the [[Aman|West]], and Idril went with him. It is believed by the Elves and [[Dúnedain]] that Idril and Tuor arrived in Valinor, bypassing the [[Ban of the Valar]], and that Tuor became reckoned in the kindred of the Elves, so that they both live in [[Valinor]].

== Etymology ==
The name Idril is the [[Sindarin]] form of her [[Quenya]] name ''Itarildë'' (or ''Itarillë''), which means "Sparkling Brilliance". {{fact}}

She was called [[Celebrindal]], "Silver-foot", because she always went barefoot.<ref>{{S|Noldor}}</ref>

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Idril|Images of Idril Celebrindal]]

{{References}}

[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:House of Fingolfin]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[Category:Sindarin names]]
[[Category:Vanyar]]
[[de:Idril]]
[[fi:Idril]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/noldor/idril]]