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Talk:Pre-Númenóreans

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(On the other hand...)
(The use of this term: new section)
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::On a second thought, one might argue that Tolkien only uses the term for the ''language'' (pre-Númenórean). Until we have other evidence, it might be good to place the template "Unnamed" on the article (I'll do it now).--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:59, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
 
::On a second thought, one might argue that Tolkien only uses the term for the ''language'' (pre-Númenórean). Until we have other evidence, it might be good to place the template "Unnamed" on the article (I'll do it now).--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:59, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
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== The use of this term ==
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Tolkien's use of this term is strictly reserved for the languages (specifically certain place-names) and various groups of different Men from a time period before the Númenóreans set sail and landed on Middle-earth. Thus, this term is much too vague to refer to a group of Men of common origin as this page implies (specifically Men akin to the Haladin) or one single language family akin to the Haladin. Tolkien has nowhere explicitly stated that the Pre-Númenóreans are a people akin to the Haladin but he has stated that the Men akin to the Haladin who stayed behind are a Pre-Númenórean people. "Pre-Númenórean" is used as an adjective, not as a proper noun. Here's some context: "the river was the southern boundary of Eregion, beyond which pre-Numenorean and generally unfriendly peoples lived, such as the ancestors of the Dunlendings." (History of Galadriel and Celeborn). Tolkien never intended for this term to be used as an ethnic group as a whole but a collection of various groups of diverse origin existing before the Numenoreans set sail.--[[User:Tolkienator|Tolkienator]] 02:02, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 02:02, 8 April 2021

Is this term found somewhere in canon material, or is it a construction strictly for this article? I'm not familiar with it. Corsair Caruso 21:49, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

It's been used by Tolkien in a manuscript concerning the legendarium (VT:42), so it's "canon". For page references, see here.--Morgan 22:54, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
On a second thought, one might argue that Tolkien only uses the term for the language (pre-Númenórean). Until we have other evidence, it might be good to place the template "Unnamed" on the article (I'll do it now).--Morgan 22:59, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

The use of this term

Tolkien's use of this term is strictly reserved for the languages (specifically certain place-names) and various groups of different Men from a time period before the Númenóreans set sail and landed on Middle-earth. Thus, this term is much too vague to refer to a group of Men of common origin as this page implies (specifically Men akin to the Haladin) or one single language family akin to the Haladin. Tolkien has nowhere explicitly stated that the Pre-Númenóreans are a people akin to the Haladin but he has stated that the Men akin to the Haladin who stayed behind are a Pre-Númenórean people. "Pre-Númenórean" is used as an adjective, not as a proper noun. Here's some context: "the river was the southern boundary of Eregion, beyond which pre-Numenorean and generally unfriendly peoples lived, such as the ancestors of the Dunlendings." (History of Galadriel and Celeborn). Tolkien never intended for this term to be used as an ethnic group as a whole but a collection of various groups of diverse origin existing before the Numenoreans set sail.--Tolkienator 02:02, 8 April 2021 (UTC)