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Moving merging articles[edit source]
Hi there, when creating an article under a new name you should move the article rather than doing this. When you move an article to a name a redirect is created by default on the former name, but the problem with what you've done is the article has now lost its history so we can't refer back to previous revisions. I would encourage you, in future, to just press the "move" button. In this case I would have moved LOTRSBG to MESBG and the copied the content from HSBG. I hope this helps. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:28, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for the memo and correcting my errors. I will use in future. Gaetano 15:32, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
I hope that you did not misunderstand me. If you read some of my comments on the Talk pages of some pages, you will see that in general I am for making speculations, but under the conditions that they are disclosed as speculations (through the use of "It is possible", "possibly", "probably", etc.) and that the basis on which this speculation is made is disclosed (e.g. "because ...."). I undid your undoing of my deletions, not because I am against speculative statements, but because the Statement was phrased like a fact and not as a speculative statement. It lacked any "It is possible" and it lacked any basis why one believes that the settling already took place in the First Age, rather than in the Second Age. Keep in mind that the statement was in a subsection with the subtitle "First Age". In my opinion the statement about the Drúedain where we know that it was in the First Age is sufficient and the question when the first people settled in Harad as opposed to just passing through is probably not so interesting for readers of the Harad page that it is worth speculating about. However, if you feel that it is necessary, feel free to do so, provided that you disclose that it is merely a speculation and that you disclose the basis of your speculation (e.g. it is possible that another group of Men or other groups of Men also already came there in the First Age, because the Drúedain were able to move there in the first Age ). I intend to speculate that it is possible that Aldarion discovered the bay of Umbar on one of his voyages when he scarcely escaped shipwreck in the Harad and that it is possible that Men already lived near the bay of Umbar and that Aldarion obtained the Name for the bay of Umbar from those local men, because at least we know that Umbar is a Name of unknown origin, which implies that somebody who did not speak Adunaic, Sindarin or Quenya already had come up with the name Umbar for this place. I also intend to speculate when Umbar was approximately founded and that Umbar not just referred to the peninsula and the bay (as a "haven" or "havens"), but to a city. --Akhorahil 14:55, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hi there, yes I understand your concern, if the issue was with my wording then that is fair to point out. Though the best action was just to alter some words rather that outright dismissing it and calling it speculation which is wrong because part of that statement also says that men awoke in Hildórien and moved from there hereafter which is mentioned in The Silmarillion and is mostly consistent in Tolkien's early writings about the matter.
- In reply to your comment here I used that reference to infer their movement into Harad because there is not much to go by regarding the ancient history of Men, including the Atanatári and other men (unless you want to move into The Book of Lost Tales territory). In the reference, "West, North, and South the children of Men spread and wandered". Here I have not described the route or method of how these groups of Men arrived at Harad, I merely said that "some eventually reached Harad", meaning they arrived in the region in whatever route they took, in whatever number of years it took.
- Moving forward, I would probably suggest to change the subheadings First Age to Early history and Second Age to Númenor and Sauron. There it would eliminate the issue of the time period of when they settled in the region. For the original statement, yes it should be adapted, though I can't think of anything at the moment. Gaetano 23:57, 3 December 2020 (UTC)