User talk:Morgan/2012–4

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Moving articles[edit]

Re. "Joseph Wright 19??", just to let you know you should be able to untick the box "Leave a redirect behind" when you move something so there is no redirect left behind for me to delete! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:37, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Good, I'll try think about that in the future (thought it only worked with images)! --Morgan 16:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Sauron code[edit]

Here you are: "{{Transcribed|Sauron Tengwar Quenya mode.png|Sauron|Tengwar, Quenya mode}}". -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  00:32, 4 January 2012 (UTC)


I cannot find - but thought we might have - an article that lists translations of The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings etc. Something like this (there's also this website which is useful). Do we have anything like this, and if not, should we have it? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:27, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I've been thinking about that too - it would be good to have. From what I can remember, we only have (in the case of translations of The Hobbit), the list on the main article itself. Is a sub-page a good option in this case, or would a totally separate article be better (like "The Hobbit translations" perhaps "Index:The Hobbit translations")? --Morgan 11:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
I should also say that I think some translations merit their own article, like Hompen.--Morgan 11:06, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't think it should be an index. "Translations of The Hobbit" and "Translations of The Lord of the Rings" etc. should be fine. I agree that some translations should have their own articles where appropriate.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  12:15, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
NOT Index. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 13:17, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Conselho Branco, Sociedade Tolkien[edit]

Hi Morgan,
Could you take a look at Conselho Branco, Sociedade Tolkien and provide sources, as according to User:Stbtolkien it includes unreliable and untruthful information. Thank you! --Amroth 16:39, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

It's a very old article, before we started being careful about sources. I had some source back then, but I can't be bothered to find it. Just tag the page with delete if it's questioned.--18:35, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
After looking at the history of the article I see you did add a few sources to the article. Unfortunally it only showed "testa". So I've removed the questioned sentences. --Amroth 19:34, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
While attempting to find a source, I found a Googlecatch entry of the old site by accident:
According to the description the site will be down for an unspecified time. --Amroth 19:53, 16 February 2012 (UTC)


To Morgan- Thank's for informing me Vaire

You're welcome!--Morgan 20:29, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I changed it so it's not saying to think about what happened Vaire 20:31, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

The Tolkien Journal[edit]

Is this a new book or a re-release? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:11, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

A new book, is my guess.--Morgan 10:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
It's just all their books are re-releases from the 80s and this one looks old like the others. I can't find any record of it being out before, though (unless it was under a different title). --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Pal. quote reference.[edit]

The reference is from page 422 of Unfinished Tales, The Palantiri ch;

Saruman had no doubt from his investigations gained knowledge of the Stones, things that would attract his attention, and had become convinced that the Orthanc-stone was still intact in its tower.

- Mclaren01 8:55, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Maclaren. I've restored your sentence after checking the reference. For future edits, just let me know if you're uncertain about how to add references using the templates and codes -- I would be glad to offer any kind of help.--Morgan 16:12, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
By the way, I didn't add a page number to the reference since the pagination differs between different editions of Unfinished Tales. Our UT template is fairly detailed, however, so it shouldn't be any trouble for people to check a reference just pointing to a section in this book.--Morgan 16:14, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

What are you doing?[edit]

What's your rationale behind applying all of these Template:Copyright-unknowns? I put that template on the Parma Eldalamberon covers whilst we wait for permission to use them (I contacted Gilson again today by a different e-mail address). I will get round to going through the WhatLinksHere for Template:Fairuse-cover[former link], so it's not helpful to randomly change the template to Template:Copyright-unknown. Also why did you apply Template:Copyright-unknown for covers with a Fairuse template (+ publisher details) on them? Were they wrong?-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  18:18, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

By the same logic we need to have permission for all covers used on TG. Has anyone contacted HarperCollins etc for permission to use their covers? New Line Cinema? --Morgan 18:22, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
There are numerous channels through which you could have communicated your point; talking is better than vandalising. We don't need permission from every single organisation whose work we use - fairuse is there and we should use it (and not abuse it). My rationale behind contacting the E.L.F. and the Mythopoeic Society (and Mith has sought permission from the Tolkien Society) is simple: they are Tolkien fans like you and I, and they are likely to give us permission. Therefore I'm operating on the principle that if I can contact the copyright holder (in hope of obtaining permission to use their work) then I will. Even if I could contact HarperCollins and New Line Cinema, their lawyers have better things to do than grant (or refuse!) individual requests from organisations like us.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  19:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
No, you should have made it clear about extending this rationale to include covers of publications, in a meeting, for example. Changing the status of cover images to "will be deleted" is very frustrating when you have spent a lot of time compiling/scanning such; every Tolkien-related website or blog (scholarly or non-scholarly) I've come across assumes it's fair use to reproduce covers of publications. --Morgan 19:17, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
I had honestly forgotten that Template:Copyright-unknown included the words "This file will be deleted unless...", and that's why I wish you had told me that this was your grievance in the first place (and let me reiterate that I'm still annoyed that you resorted to vandalism rather than coming to me to discuss it). Let me explain what happened today: I saw that you used Template:Fairuse-cover[former link] on File:Parma Eldalamberon 12.jpg and, because Template:Fairuse-cover should not be used on new images, I replaced it Template:Copyright-unknown. I then decided to tidy up the other Parma Eldalamberon covers (including giving them their own category) and in the process I added Template:Copyright-unknown to all of them as we will probably get permission soon.
There has been no change in policy; we've used the new system for covers of publications since the new system was first established. I'm perfectly happy to discuss how we handle copyright for publication covers, if that's what you want (although, if this is the case, I wish that we had held it sooner). I'm sorry if my actions have upset or frustrated you, but I suspect that you wouldn't have been so annoyed if you had simply contacted me about it.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  19:45, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
I've emailed you.--Morgan 20:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Noncanon template[edit]

Would you like me to use my bot to remove all usages of Template:Noncanon?-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  13:40, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Hm, I'm not sure. I'm just thinking that there might be articles without references or which don't explain the canonical status.--Morgan 13:43, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  13:46, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Bombadil sentence[edit]

And why did you remove the sentence I added? -- User:Mclaren01 4:56 PM, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi Mclaren01, you made a great point; but I think we need to include a reference to back up your statement. That way the reader knows where that idea comes from. --Hyarion 07:15, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Furthermore it was an incomplete sentence.--Morgan 22:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
"He might do so, if all the free folk of the world begged him, but he would not understand the need" Gandalf, the Council of Elrond, pg 259 I Wrote the sentence as a summary of this statement by Gandalf about Bombadilo's mentality. If you have a clearer, etc, sentence in mind you can consider that instead. -- User:Mclaren01 11:03 AM, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification, Mclaren. I will take a look at the issue tomorrow.--Morgan 00:23, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Mclaren, this is my conclusion: right now the first part of your addition would already be included in the preceding sentence (that is, Tom not being "fully aware of the struggle of Light and Darkness", equivalent to your "A mindset clear of conceptions of 'Good' and 'Evil'"). The One Ring hasn't been mentioned before in the article, and it would therefore take a major rewrite to include your last part (" he would not understand overtures to keep and conceal the One Ring himself if all the peoples of Middle-earth begged him to") at this point, since the section "War of the Ring" follows.--Morgan 23:57, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Hobbit in French[edit]

Hello Morgan. I just see your message on my discussion page. It's a new translation, made by Daniel Lauzon (also translator of the HoMe 3 at 5). I've change the url you've added for another where Daniel Lauzon have answering some questions and enlighted some of his choices. Druss 13:01, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Black Speech[edit]

Hello there Morgan I was thinkong of bringong more details to the Black speech page but maybe it shouldn't be there where I put it so we must make a new Headline. However it would be nice if we could have a little bit more information about this language however rude he looked like.

Yours fathiful

--Glaurung the Golden 13:58, 11 January 2013 (UTC)Glaurung the Golden

Hi there. I tweaked your contribution and added it to the article.--Morgan 23:14, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes thanks mate, i was just thinking to mention the use of ergative in it

--Glaurung the Golden 17:03, 13 January 2013 (UTC)Glaurung the Golden

Well, to me "ergative" is specialized linguistic terminology -- I'm not sure we need to include this on Tolkien Gateway and at the very least not just a quick mention. Fauskanger devotes a whole section of his article to the ergative case in relation to the Black Speech and Hurrian. If you find a good way to explain this in a simple way, it could possibly be included. I don't want to be the sole judge here! :) But IMHO think it suffices with a link to Fauskanger's article, for those wanting more detailed information.--Morgan 17:11, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
Ergative is a grammatical case that is used to explain the subject of transitive verb mostly in ergative-absolutive languages. But, alright if it's too complicated for TG then i will try to make more simple. However Tolkien himself was a philologist :)

We will end this conversation now, don't want to waste your time anymore.

Your's faithiful


New users[edit]

You don't need to add {{user}} to the user page of every new editor. It's only for those who write on talk pages and, therefore, leave a redlink lying around. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:12, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for letting me know. I thought the red-linked user name appearing in recent changes also turned up in wanted pages.--Morgan 23:33, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Total Edits[edit]

Hi Morgan, I apologize but I'm afraid we're going to have to block your account from future editing. I'm sure you're just getting too close to my edit total. :) (I will admit, you passed me long ago if we're counting quality contributions) Keep up the great work! --Hyarion 03:55, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

+1.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  09:46, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Hehe, but I actually fear that quantity rather than quality has been my main contribution to TG! :) --Morgan 16:59, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


Hi Morgan. I understand that you own several old and recent editions of LotR. Could you please check out this matter and have a look in Appendix C of your books? I own only one version (pre-50th Anniversary), which is not available to me ATM so I can't cross-check. Sage 14:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello Sage! Certainly, I will check when I come back home later today.--Morgan 14:58, 1 May 2013 (UTC)


Hi Morgan!

I'm trying to understand how to include a reference in the article that links back to a source that has already been given. I know I'm supposed to use < ref name=One>And this is source number one</ref> and such, but does this also work with shortcuts such as {S|1}}? If so, how? --Shadrak 16:56, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi Shadrak!
<ref name=S1>{{S|1}}</ref>
<ref name=S1/>
The first code line above creates an original reference to The Silmarillion, Chapter 1. The second code line "links back" to the same reference. You can use any name as the reference name, but the name needs to be the same when you link to it.
Does it make sense? You can see an example here.--Morgan 18:01, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks!--Shadrak 20:17, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Undone edits[edit]

Hi Morgan! Quick question: I noticed you reverted the edits done to the "Ents" page by user Just to clarify, was that due to the fact that there were no references, or was there something else that was questionable about the edits? I just ask because user happens to be me before I created an account. :O) Unsigned comment by Shadrak (talk • contribs).

Hello Shadrak! I'll be blunt, and hope you'll see my opinion as constructive criticism. The reason for undoing the edits was a combination of many things: the lack of references was the most important (for example, a statement needing a source is "...created at the request of the Vala Yavanna to protect the trees from other creatures, particularly Dwarves..."). In addition, the edits I reverted carried a speculative, non-encyclopedic tone: for example, "...they are undoubtedly counted among...". Finally, there were a couple of spelling errors ("phisiology" and "Middle-Earth"). As administrators, we tend to be less forgiving when it comes to anonymous edits (for psychological reasons, I guess).--Morgan 15:34, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Cool. I didn't take it personally. ;) I just wanna learn to contribute in the most thorough and objective way. Is it ok if I re-post the edits addressing these issues?--Shadrak 19:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Naturally! I should also like to point out that I think admins and fellow editors are more willing to "correct" or improve edits when these are done by registered editors -- it's an indication that the editor is serious and willing to participate in discussions.--Morgan 19:32, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Excellent. Please check the Ents page later today and let me know if you notice anything else I can improve.--Shadrak 19:42, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
IMHO, the edit you now did works better as an introduction (that is, an introduction shouldn't be too wordy).--Morgan 09:50, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Own story[edit]

Excuse me, do you know if there is a website where a person may create their own stories of Middle-earth, thanks.-- 22:53, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I'd recommend the Cottage of Lost Play at the LotR Fanatics Plaza. If you search on Google, there appears to be many fan fiction websites (like this one), but I couldn't say if any of them are better or worse.--Morgan 09:31, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Idril page[edit]

Dear Morgan,

I was reviewing the page on idril and could not find any information to back up the following claim- "and in the Helcaraxë almost lost her life falling through the ice with several others, but Turgon saved her, though he lost his wife Elenwë." In the Silmarillion it is said that Elenwe lost her life but I find no mention of Idril.

Hope you can help,

Watcher at the Silver Gate

Thanks for noting this. I've placed a {{fact}} at the statement, to see if someone knows a reference (it might be from the History of Middle-earth).--Morgan 22:29, 20 November 2013 (UTC)


Pardon me, I used a copy-and-paste then. --Mclaren01 11:29 PM, 29/12/2013 (UTC).

No problem. :-) --Morgan 14:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Tolkien Testament[edit]

Why Tolkien testament is not included on dates and the administrator of this website deleted all references about that? Unsigned comment by Sigurd (talk • contribs).

Because the article was so below any imaginable standard that cleaning it up (which I tried) left only one very short sentence. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:43, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

No. I created one exclusive page about this testament and put references about this document. Is so easy to find in Joseph Ratellif blog, in Tolkien's Legendarium book and others. I think that FACT cannot be excluded from a serious encyclopedia. User:Sigurd/sig

  1. Sign your posts.
  2. The factuality was not in dispute. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:31, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

No thanks. So Why do not put that information?

Silmaril and Arkenstone[edit]

If you have a reference to people arguing that Arkenstone is a Silmaril should not have the argument contrary? In the same link there are both arguments. Unsigned comment by Sigurd (talk • contribs).

The Hobbit page edit?[edit]

Why did you undo my edit? Mclaren01 5:27 AM, 22/01/2014 (UTC)

Grammar and style were not up to standard.--Morgan 22:49, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

The Children of Húrin editions[edit]

This is a NEW BOOK. ISBN is different. Why did you deleted from the list os editions of the children of húrin?

Hello Sigurd. There is a discussion about this ISBN over at The Tolkien Collector's Guide: it seems like it's a database glitch, not referring to an actual edition of The Children of Húrin. (Please remember to sign your posts, using the code --~~~~.)--Morgan 20:55, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

There is no discussion there like that. Just me that notice Deagol that in his website this book was not listed. And other person comment as well. A new ISBN form a new book that is the rule of ISBN itself. --Sigurd 00:44, 26 January 2014 (UTC).)--

Your interpretation of the discussion is wrong. You suggest that Deagol should include the edition "The Children of Húrin. HarperCollins, Complete & Unabridged 2007(10 December), ISBN:9780007275397". Deagol answers: "Does anybody have a copy of this? What is it?" and "Just a database glitch maybe?". Khamûl replies "I guess (& have guessed) it's a glitch", and then Stu also suggests that the edition is an error. In any case, let's be patient and wait to see what Deagol adds to 10:45, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Now I understand what you said about that discussion. But,Tolkiengateway is part of Tolkienbookt website? So we have to whait indeed. --Sigurd 15:50, 26 January 2014 (UTC).)--

Image - collage of maps[edit]

Greetings Morgan, I just uploaded an image (File:Collage-detail-dolmed-ereb.png) and was fixing the description and licensing when you also edited simultaneously the latter. Ended up with two licensing boxes, let me know what is best preferable for TG. Drakon 00:58, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Double post again! :-) I posted a note at your talk page, please have a look.--Morgan 00:59, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! I looked at your example and switched to GFDL(-self), which is ok for me, so that others may use it and possibly make a better one (and also kept the "fair use" box, respectively to JRRT/CJRT own's maps used as basis for this "collage") -- Drakon 01:10, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Featured Article[edit]

Hey Morgan I was just wondering when we could get a vote for featured article maybe make it where we change it quarterly its been smaug since before I even joined Throrin Longbeard 03:51, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. I've just been discussing this point with some other editors, and there are some disagreement on whether we have any other article which would qualify as a featured article.--Morgan 20:51, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Maybe you and I can pick an article or two that we both like and work on cleaning it up to a point that it can be featured as an article I just think at this point any article would be a better than keeping the same one up any longer if we do choose to team up on an article I think it should have something to do with the battle of five armies let me know Throrin Longbeard 10:45, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


I know this would be a faff, but the title of letters has always bothered me because the name of the article doesn't actually say what it is. Furthermore, we have the issue that some articles have "??" in the title. I would like to suggest:

  • Letters be renamed to "Letter to name".
  • Where there are multiple letters, the title should be suffixed with a bracketed date. E.g. Instead of "Mary Fairburn 4 November 1968" it would be "Letter to Mary Fairburn (4 November 1968)".

I think this would make the letters much easier to link to and for the public to find with a much more intuitive name. It would also conform to the style we have for article title. I am happy to do the work to make this happen. What do you think? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 23:16, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Good suggestions! It has bothered me that we might need to create articles about events, which would also have a date in their titles (e.g., Rotterdam 1958). These latter would be difficult to distinguish from letters. So -- yes, I agree about the changes you suggest.--Morgan 23:24, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
I think with events and things you could have a similar format, e.g. "Speech in Rotterdam".
I've started moving some of the letters (I'll let my bot sort out all the links), but do you think it would be better if they were sorted by surname instead of firstname? We do this elsewhere and, of course, we don't know the firstnames of a lot of the letter receivers.
Also, how do you think we should amend the opening sentence on each letter? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 15:29, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it would be better to sort by surname (where applicable -- some are letters to magazines and institutions).
Concerning the opening sentence ...hmm... what I think is important is to include: link to our list of letters, links to the dates of the letter, and links to the sender and receiver (when such have an article of their own). The question now is: with the suggested change of title, can we escape an unnecessary repetition of words in the opening sentence? For the article Letter to Mr. Miggins (30 February 1974), we could perhaps have: "On '''[[30 February]] [[1974]], [[J.R.R. Tolkein]] '''[[Letters not published in "The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien"|wrote a letter]] to [[Mr. Miggins]]'''."--Morgan 16:12, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
That sounds good to me. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:23, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
I've moved all the articles, sorted them, added {{nowiki}}, and re-linked them; all that's left for me to do is to rework the opening sentences of them all. But, some articles I didn't know what to do with, I wonder if you could help? These are:
What do you think? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 15:26, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
  1. Merge with its counterpart in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien?
  2. Sounds good.
  3. Thinking about WP's principle of commonly recongizable names, I'd actually suggest using the published "title" of the letter (i.e., as we do now).
  4. See above.
  5. I'd argue that the only interesting letters to Tolkien (in the context of TG) are such to which Tolkien replied (or otherwise reacted to). When I have noted letters to Tolkien, I have therefore mentioned these within articles about letters by Tolkien (and then created separate entries in the dates articles). Hence, I think that we can delete this article (in accordance with its talk page).--Morgan 17:05, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Just replying to say that I've finished this! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 22:15, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
Impressive work! --Morgan 20:58, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Map Source[edit]

Where is this from?-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  09:53, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

It's cropped from this.--Morgan 12:22, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Rob Alexander[edit]

I was preparing to delete Rob Alexander's images when I noticed on File:Forod.jpg that that particular image is from the Middle-earth Collectible Card Game. Is this true for the rest of the Rob Alexander's images?-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  21:54, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

*ahem* ;) -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  22:07, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
Sorry! A quick answer: to find out which images by Rob Alexander that were used in the MECCG, you can type his name in the search field "Text on card" at this website. It's a bit tedious (since you would have to look at each card to determine the artwork); I can do it when time permits me.--Morgan 22:53, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! They're all from MECC.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  12:32, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Uploading Picture File[edit]

Hello Morgan, I am new on this site (ex-HBaratte during the last eight days), and I wrote the new article for The Inland Sea (MERP), but I can't upload the picture file of its cover, so could you tell me how I must do ? Thanks very much ! Basile II 22:41, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello Basile and welcome! I believe new users must do more than 20 edits before it's possible to upload images (as a kind of protection against spam bots uploading images). Let me know if it doesn't work for you after those 20 edits, and I'll look into it.--Morgan 04:30, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

MERP Books[edit]

Could you take a look that these? This stock number thing (what does it even mean?!) seems a bit messy to me but I don't know if that's the thing you usually on those articles. If you could give it a little look-over that would be good. Thanks! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:15, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

ICE's stock number is a unique number for a specific product, which is quite handy when searching for information about a supplement (some listings only use the stock number). It would look nicer to include this in the template, though -- perhaps a unique "book" template for the ICE/MERP stuff. Or perhaps even better: would it be possible to have a non-fixed line in the book template (so you could add stuff like this)? --Morgan 21:25, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
OK, so they should say "ICE stock number", then, to make it clear what it actually is. I can create a blank field in templates but there are occasions where people could mess it up; if I make a specific ICE stock number field in the book template will that be OK? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 22:06, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
It would be great. And an idea: on the book template page it would be nice to have two versions of the book template (since I often copy+paste the code): one with the basic fields that most often are used, and one extended with unusual and product-specific fields. Something like this (if you understand what I mean):
| title=
| image=
| author=
| date=
| format=
| pages=
| isbn=
| title=
| image=
| author=
| ice=
| series=
| precededby=
| followedby=
--Morgan 17:26, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
I can do that. Where in the template would you like it to go? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:14, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
Hmm... how about below the ISSN field?--Morgan 19:41, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
Will this do? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:53, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
Brilliant. Thanks.--Morgan 21:00, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
Would it look better above the ISBN, do you think? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:10, 17 June 2014 (UTC)


I checked other articles before writing and in their categories they included noncanon elves or locations. Should they be removed if they are spotted? --Sandy 10:53, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes. Ideally (IMO), such articles should contain some statement that it's a concept from an early stage of the legendarium + references. We decided this long time ago at a TG meeting, but no one has yet done all the work on these articles. :-) --Morgan 12:50, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
BTW those articles are usually written in an OOU (out of universe) perspective. I don't know if there has been some consencous about this. I have followed this trend myself when writing BOLT articles. Sage 13:08, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
I think that what you decided at the TG meeting makes much more sense. Thanks for clarifying it and I'm sorry that you have to go and edit the mistakes I make. :P --Sandy 13:30, 18 July 2014 (UTC)


I've been having a bit of a tidy up of redundant templates, and I've found a Template:VT2 (which is unused) as well as a Template:VT (which is used). What's the difference between them - can VT2 go? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:16, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, it was created 4 years ago by Ederchil. I have a vague memory of us discussing the (original) Template:VT -- perhaps a glitch of some kind -- and Ederchil was then going to try someting out with Template:VT2. I'll see if I can find something on talk pages.--Morgan 11:56, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
I think it was a test, but I'm not sure what for. If VT works, we can get rid of VT2. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:13, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
The discussion behind VT2 is found here. I'm not sure what do make out of it! :-P Template:VT has worked fine lately, though, so perhaps we can just delete VT2?--Morgan 21:09, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Dates of books[edit]

I have a first edition of the book The Song of Middle-earth by David Harley. It seems that TS website is wrong in dates in that page.There are other dates that are wrong,like "the Inkilings" book dated 1977 but was really published 1978. [1].Unsigned comment by Sigurd (talk • contribs).