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Talk:Adrahil I

Re: "Can somebody clarify: does 'Prince of Dor-en-Ernil' exist? How is it related to 'Prince of Dol Amroth'?" (or; "We should really stop using the edit summary as a talk page entry" :p)

I've botched up a (lame) title, but the article definately needs some cleanup.
Based on a quick scan of my digital UT (admittedly, full of typos. Gondor is called Condor many times): The title "Prince of Dor-en-Ernil" does not occur (D-e-E only has two hits, both in Galadriel & Celeborn). Adrahil is specifically called "of Dol Amroth":
"He at once sent messengers to Adrahil of Dol Amroth,17 the Captain of the Left Wing, commanding him to withdraw with all the speed he could both his own command and those at the rear of the Right Wing who had not yet been engaged." - if you want to check a paper version, it's around note 17 (duh) of Cirion & Eorl.
Hope that helps. Though probably not... Note that he's not called a Prince. Maybe he was just the Lord of Dol Amroth. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 15:58, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
About the Prince of Dor-en-Ernil title, Adrahil's entry in the UT index doesn't mention it:
"A commander of the forces of Gondor against the Wainriders in Third Age 1944; called 'of Dol Amroth' and presumably an ancestor of Adrahil (2) [ie. Adrahil II, Prince of Dol Amroth]"
Dor-en-Ernil aside, the matter of whether he was a Prince of Dol Amroth is covered in note 39 of Cirion and Eorl. I think the contents of this article are based on that note. It's too long for me to type out but the key points are:
  • In a footnote to Cirion and Eorl Tolkien stated specifically that the title Prince of Dol Amroth was given to current (unnamed) Prince's ancestors by Elendil himself, who had settled in Dol Amroth and built a stronghold there even before the Downfall of Numenor.
  • However in the History of Galadriel and Celeborn Galador, T.A. 2004-2129 is named as the first Prince of Dol Amroth, his father being merely "a Numenorean, who dwelt in Belfalas".
  • CJRT's explanation is that Dol Amroth was named so until after T.A. 1981 and the drowning of Amroth. Thus while they have been called 'Prince' since Elendil's day, they were not princes 'of Dol Amroth' until Galador. In that case it seems reasonable to assume they would be called princes of Dor-en-Ernil, that being the name for they're known to have lived. Previous references to 'of Dol Amroth' are then explained away as anachronisms.
I'll try to clean up this article and make this clearer. Thanks for putting me on the right track. --Aule the Smith 18:04, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
On the other hand, "Prince of Dor-en-Ernil" means Prince of the Lands of the Prince. Which doesn't make much sense. Perhaps it would be better to use "Prince of Belfalas", or just try and avoid qualifying it at all. --Aule the Smith 18:13, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Then I vote for the latter. Maybe we should just call him a "Gondorian noble of Númenórean descent" or something. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:21, 27 September 2008 (UTC)