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Forums:Multiple title redirects

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Tolkien Gateway > Council > Multiple title redirects

With most of J.R.R. Tolkien's works there are characters with more than one title. This becomes a problem with a few suggested solutions we can vote on:

  • Redirection - We can redirect all titles to one main article which we vote can vote on if there is not an obvious choice. The determination for the title will be the subject of another topic as we would have to take into consideration what was used the most, what is most canonical, and what is most proper, etc. The upside to this concept would be people can find all information on that character on one page. The downside is they might have trouble finding information on the specific lesser title for the character when they are redirected there. An example being if someone wanted to find why Aragorn was known as Strider, and it redirects to Aragorn II, this might not be very efficient.
  • No redirection - In this scenario every instance of every name has its own page with information on that title and character. The Strider article would contain information when Aragorn was known as Strider, when he beceame known as Aragorn Elessar, that article would fill in those details.
  • Semi-redirection - With this option all content is kept on one page but each different title of the character has its own page as well which contains information on what the title means. This is kind of a combination of the two earlier choices.
--Hyarion 00:03, 28 April 2006 (EDT)

I'd go for the last one: all info in the article with the most used name, the info on the specific nick names in seperate articles with a link to the chief article. Even Túrin-with-the-many-names is mostly known as Túrin Turambar. --Earendilyon 01:52, 28 April 2006 (EDT)

Perhaps it would be good to Redirect and include an "other names" section at the bottom. --Narfil Palùrfalas 10:02, 28 April 2006 (EDT)
I'm stumped on this one as I could sway either way. One thing we have to consider though is at some point I would like to expand into Sindarin and Quenya articles. Where we would have an article for alahasta which simply would state it is a noun, is found on X pg. in X book and means unmarred in Quenya. With this project in mind it does make more sense to go the no-redirect route. --Hyarion 14:17, 28 April 2006 (EDT)
Would Mardil be a good example of the type of entry that should be redirected in a "semi-redirection" approach? --Ebakunin 20:28, 3 May 2006 (EDT)
Yes that's exactly what I see as a good article to redirect as there is nothing more that can be said about the title and it simply exists to make it easier for people who are searching for Mardil Voronwë. --Hyarion 22:49, 3 May 2006 (EDT)
(Apologies that this post is a little late in the day (considering the last reply was a year ago).) I wholeheartedly support the first option, as i stated in a thread on this very forum. There are simply far too many terms to do it any other way. One particular flaw with the 'page for every name' is that some casual contributers may search for an alternative term for any given subject and then when they discover that that page only amounts to a couple of lines, add hundreds of words to it to 'fill it out' as the 'main' article.

I recently encountered that when dealing with the various terminologies used for the Houses of the Edain- innumerable pages like 'First House of the Edain', 'Haladin' 'House of Marach', 'People of Haleth' 'People of Hador' had all sprung up with lives of their own away from the basic 'House of... Beor/Haleth/Hador' entries.

Another example is to be found in the 'Men' section when there is an entire list of 'Men of...' entries (notably Rohan, Gondor and Harad) when there is also the pages 'Rohirrim', 'Gondorians' and 'Haradrim'. While the examples i state only apply to groups of people subject to all kinds of colliqialisms and a veritable infinite supply of different phrasings it also applies to characters: Is the lead ringwraith 'Lord of the Nazgul' or 'The Witch King of Angmar'? In the case of the wizards someone wisely chose to redirect their elvish names to the main page and i think that policy should continue throughout.

Apologies for this rant but this lack of centralisation i think is one of the biggest flaws with this site since it prohibits people finding the largest amount of information with the greatest context quickly. I do wholeheartedly agree with Narfil's comment of making a 'other names' section as standard for all other notable terms for a given subject. Dr Death 14:00 28 May 2007

I agree with most of your points, articles with similar names should definitely be merged, however the following focuses on names with different meanings which pertain to the same thing. Such as Gandalf and Mithrandir.
Wikipedia is a good example of merging articles into a single article and using redirects to forward people there. While most of our ideas run similar to Wikipedia's this is one where I feel we could change. I like to think TG could not only be an encyclopedia but a dictionary as well. One of our goals is to have an article for every Quenya, Sindarin, etc. word, with its meaning, how it was derived, where it is used, etc. Most characters, places, items, etc. have an Elvish equivalent of their name and if we were to have these be redirects then our dictionary becomes incomplete.
This is why I propose at the top of such articles we say something similar to "The main article is located at Name-of-article" and then we proceed to give information on the title, not of the person/thing/place/etc. This way we are not duplicating information, we are informing the person where they can find information on the actual thing, but we are also helping those who are wishing to find information on the name. Just my thoughts however. --Hyarion 12:33, 28 May 2007 (EDT)
In the case of elvish names in a lot of cases (in fact veritably all) the names are compound words Agarwaen= 'Blood-Stained'; Mithrandir= 'Grey Pilgrim' and these names often dont give their component words in their purest forms. For this reason i beleive that except when names are elvish words in their purest form (Estel and Lalaith spring to mind as examples) the page should link to the character rather than the word. A couple of links in the 'Other names' portion of the character page pertaining to the entymology should suffice for those seeking the root words. Dr Death
I had some spare time here, so I thought I'd join in for a moment. I formerly agreed with Dr Death, but I think my opinion has changed to the same as Hyarion's. I disagree that the compound words that are common should redirect. I also disagree especially with the edit that suggested a merge between a mariner and the name of his ship (I think it was). I don't really have any more time, so I'll just say this is my input. - User:Narfil Palùrfalas
A bit more time before I return to the States. In summary, unless the page contains no more information than "this was a name for" or "this was another name for", it should have its own page. -- User:Narfil Palùrfalas