Talk:Telerin

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Latest comment: 10 October 2023 by Jteuber in topic Pronunciation

Should Lindarin redirect to Telerin? --Morgan 20:44, 20 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What is Lindarin? --Amroth 09:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's the name of one of Tolkien's invented languages.--Morgan 10:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So it's a different language then Telerin? --Amroth 10:39, 21 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I guess the answer is both yes and no(!). I haven't investigated the issue much yet, but I was hoping Sage was able to shed some light. If Lindarin and Telerin are as different as Noldorin and Sindarin, I guess we should have different articles.--Morgan 10:42, 21 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I say "no" on the basis that in The Lhammas Lindarin and Telerin are treated as entirely separate entities (but I'm easily open to persuasion on this). --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:03, 21 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Pronunciation

I removed this text:

The coexistence with the Teleri made the Noldor want to differentiate themselves from the speech of the Vanyar. For example the Vanyar pronounced /f/ very soft, almost like /hw/, but the Noldor resisted this change through influence from the Teleri.[1] 

I went through Shibboleth and found no mention of this. Oberiko (talk) 16:47, 9 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think whoever wrote this, drew from Vinyar Tengwar 41, From The Shibboleth Of Feanor, p. 7-8, or rather from some secondary source saying it’s from “The Shibboleth”:
The shift from dental and labial þ and f to interdental þ and labio-dental f occurred first in Telerin. The labio-dental f soon spread to Ñoldorin. Probably because it helped to make f and the voiceless w (transcribed hw) of Quenya more clearly distinguished.¹
...
Footnote 1: The Noldor, before they made the change, accused the Vanyar of confusing the two sounds. In fact if left to unheeded change they would probably have merged in Quenya hw. Their near approach (by slackening the spirantal friction of f) before the separation of Vanyar and Ñoldor is seen in the development of phu- > *hwu- > hu-, as in Quenya huine ‘gloom’, unrelieved darkness (as a night without stars or moon), Telerin fuine of same sense, Sindarin fuin ‘night’. Later when the merging had been checked in Ñoldorin it was one of Fëanor’s jests to declare that the Vanyar called his father Hwinwe and himself Hwëanáro.
So it’s not from the Shibboleth as published in the Peoples of Middle-earth but from an appendix to it published in VT, and the statement from the article was a bit to generalised for my taste to begin with, but this is a concept that does exist. --Jteuber (talk) 10:19, 10 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]