Template talk:History of Arda

From Tolkien Gateway

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In addition to the discussion concerning the Years of the Lamps, there is a problem in this template, methinks. The heading "Valian Years" is problematic because the term does not refer to a period but is a unit of time, the length of one year during the Years of the Trees: one day of the Trees lasted 7 z 12 = 84 solar hours and one year of the Trees (= Valian Year / Year of the Valar) lasted 7 x 12.000 = 84.000 solar years which makes one Valian Year 84.000 / 8766 = 9,582 solar years. (see J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Morgoth's Ring, "Part Two. The Annals of Aman", p. 59-60). The same unit of time was used in the Annals to counte the years before the Trees to make the length of that period comprehensible even if before the Trees in Arda seemingly existed no natural phenomenon as a basis for counting the time. Only the Valar knew (see [[MR|Annals}}, p. 51). --Tik 18:52, 24 February 2021 (UTC) 59-70

Given the fact that most of the First Age should fall under the current 'Years of the Trees' heading anyway, I too have some serious issues with this template.
Also, 'Ainulindale' isn't technically a part of the 'history of Arda' - after all, it "happened" outside of time and space - but that's just pedantry...
Maybe a 'History of Ea'§ template would do better, without mentioning the 'Valian years' altogether, since they are, as Tik pointed out, simply a measure of time, and not an 'Age'?
§An important footnote to all this is: what is TG going to do about the 'Round World' Silmarillion in general? IvarTheBoneless (talk) 19:07, 12 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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I think the newly edited template is too bulky and complicated. How about this one?

History of Arda
Ainulindalë
Days before days
Years
Valian Years (and/or
Years of the Trees)
Years of the Sun
Ages
First Age
Second Age
Third Age
Fourth Age
Later Ages
Dagor Dagorath
Timeline of Arda

-- Ar-Zigûr (talk) 12:54, 16 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]