Talk:Lord of Emyn Arnen

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Rewritten

I expanded and rewrote the article adding more detail and refinement. I wanted to include an Etymology section to explain the Sindarin meaning of Emyn Arnen but did not have enough references. Where do the references of Tolkien’s languages usually come from? Also I added this article under sources if somebody knew more references and wanted to add. Angol (talk) Angol (talk) 19:35, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Great work! Don't worry about an Etymology section because that is available in the Emyn Arnen article. Hyarion (talk) 19:43, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

You can find reference templates on the Help:References page.Dour1234 (talk) 22:03, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your interest in Tolkien Gateway and for wanting to improve the content on Tolkien Gateway. A good source to look up references for etymology sections is eldamo.org I recommend to use the Academic Word Search to search for the name whose translation you are looking for and to use the References function to familiartize yourself with the abbreviations of references that may be shown there. Common references are Words, Phrases and Passages in The Lord of The Rings which contains translations by J.R.R. Tolkien that were publihsed in Parma Eldalamberon no. 17 (PE) or J.R.R. Tolkien's Unfinished Index for The Lord of the Rings that was cited in The Lord of the Rings - A Reader's Companion (RC). The index of The Silmarillion and the index of Unfinished Tales were written by Christopher Tolkien, so if a translation that was written by J.R.R. Tolkien can be found it is preferred.

I was a bit surprised that Dour1234 (recte Hyarion) responded with the comment "Great work!" instead of providing feedback about the problems with the content after your edit or correcting those problems. Did you read the sources that were written by J.R.R. Tolkien about Emyn Arnen and Faramir before you made the edit on the Lof of Emyn Arnen page and "expanded and rewrote the article adding more detail and refinement"?

Did you ask yourself if any of the sources actually said that King Aragorn Elessar actually gave this title to Faramir? This is the very first sentence that you reused in your rewrite. Did you check if there is any statement in the sources that said what this lordship "included"? In the chapter The Steward and the King in RK and in the other sources there is no statement that King Aragorn Eleassar gave the title "Lord of Emyn Arnen" to Faramir. In this chapter and in other sources Faramir is merely referred to as the "Prince of Ithilien". In the section Ruling Stewards in Appendix A I (ii) at the very end it is only mentioned that Dennethor II was followed by "Faramir, Lord of Emyn Arnen". In the section The Stewards in Appendix A I (iv) it is mentioned that "The House of the Stewards was called the House of Húrin, for they were descendants of the Steward of King Minardil (1621–34), Húrin of Emyn Arnen, a man of high Númenórean race. After his day the kings had always chosen their stewards from among his descendants; and after the days of Pelendur the Stewardship became hereditary as a kingship, from father to son or nearest kin." In the entries for Steward Túrin II and Steward Turgon it is mentioned that the population of Ithilien fled because of invasions and the threat of Mordor. The Emyn Arnen are in Ithilien. Since Faramir was a descendant of "Húrin of Emyn Arnen" it is possible that Húrin or some of his descendants already had the title "Lord of Emyn Arnen" and that Faramir went back to those hills where his ancestors already used to have an estate. It is important to clearly distinguish possibilities from facts on Tolkien Gateway so that Tolkien Gateway is a reliable source for readers about what we know and what we only think to be a possibility.

There is no statement in the sources that this title was given or held to "honor" something and what it should "honor". Faramir was "Steward of Gondor", he was not "Steward" of Gondor's eastern lands. J.R.R. Tolkien wrote that the "Prince of Ithilien" was the resident march-warden of Gondor in its main eastward outpost. There is no chapter called "The History of the Stewards" in the book Unfinished Tales of Númenór and Middle-earth that you cited as the source for one of your statements. The sources do not contain a statement that "Emyn Arnen was the administrative center for their governance" before the Stewards moved their residence to Minas Tirith. J.R.R. Tolkien's letter no. 244 does not contain a statement that Ithilien "was restored as a flourishing region". Neither the chapter The Steward and the King nor any of the outher sources contains statements that that Ithilien] was transformed into a region of peace and "beauty, know as the Garden of Gondor" und Faramir's care and that this role "reinforced the bond between Gondor and Rohan through Faramir's and Eowyn's marriage". The marriage itself created a connection, but there is no statement how his role as Prince of Ithilien would strengthen the bond with Rohan. --Akhôrahil (talk) 09:41, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I never responded with the comment “Great Work!”. That was Hyarion's comment. I simply responded after Hyarion commented. I pointed out what page the reference templates are on because the user Angel never used such templates.Dour1234 (talk) 10:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I confused your user signature with that of Hyarion. However, you made edits on the Lord of Emyn Arnen and the Heir of Elendil page after the user Angol and neither pointed out the incorrect statements to Angol nor corrected those statments. You simply replaced clear text templates with templates for references and added one fact template. --Akhôrahil (talk) 11:14, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

What I did was still an improvement even if I wasn’t as thorough as you. Not everyone is as good an editor as you are.Dour1234 (talk) 12:28, 29 November 2024 (UTC)